Problem with Msu hoops is fans and department accept mediocre results

[Highway65]

Hinson should of been canned 2 years ago. With all due respect we hear all these players Hinson gets is great but I think overrated. Ahearn is a one dimensional player and the big men are a joke. Bill Rowe grow some balls.

[azbirdfan]

Fire Hinson NOW and get Coach K to wake up and realize he should be at MSU!! Duke has nothing on MSU!!

:bears: :bears: :bears: :bears:
:yeah:

Sorry guys but this is getting way over the top. At least I have something to humor my day with. This is not meant as a knock to most MSU fans but it's getting awfully old. Don't you have your own website for these types of threads?

[troutangler]

Hinson should of been canned 2 years ago. With all due respect we hear all these players Hinson gets is great but I think overrated. Ahearn is a one dimensional player and the big men are a joke. Bill Rowe grow some balls.

Ahearn, along with Spencer Laurie this year will be the two best players we have. I don't care how one dimensional you think he is (which he's not), he led the conference in scoring. This isn't a problem with what players we have, it's the coach.

[pawball]

It's the coach, it's the coach, O yes, it's the coach. It couldn't be the players, couldn't be the player's, O no, O no, it couldn't be the playas! (Cause we know it is the coach!)

We have the best personnel, but never, never win. O gawd it is hell, to have the best (OK, call it almost blessed best) personnel but never win (never win)!

If you didn't know, we have coaches that can't coach (can't coach). O yeah, ain't it swell, we have playas that can play but coaches that can't coach, can't you tell....it's why we miss so many open shots a lot....shots a lot a lot a lotta lotta lotta lotta shots a lot! The coaches can't coach, but the playas can play, O yes I say, the coaches sure can't coach but the playas sure can play, O to our dismay, can someone save the day?

On troutster, on hondoman, on nightie, on and on and on! Blow the bugles wide, create an ousting tide, on and on and on and on and on!

Please inspire our young men, pepp'em up as best you ken....tell'em to ignore our coach, just listen to your prattle, you can even use a paddle..... to meet out what you know, that will make the Bear's team go-go-go-go go-go-go-go go-go-go-go-go!

We know we know we know, that you really really know, exactly what must get done to get Barry on the run, you know so awful much, we know we're outta touch we gotta use yous for our crutch since we just don't really know......... like you really really know know know know know know know know know!

Please listen to my plea, no rest for those so blind to you who know the score and so much more! More more more more more more more more more! Please tell us more! We want some more! About the coaches that can't coach and the playas that can play....O how you say?.....who could be so much more more more more more more more more more..... with coaches that could coach! Please.....just a little more!

[brocks]

It's the coach, it's the coach, O yes, it's the coach. It couldn't be the players, couldn't be the player's, O no, O no, it couldn't be the playas! (Cause we know it is the coach!)

We have the best personnel, but never, never win. O gawd it is hell, to have the best (OK, call it almost blessed best) personnel but never win (never win)!

If you didn't know, we have coaches that can't coach (can't coach). O yeah, ain't it swell, we have playas that can play but coaches that can't coach, can't you tell....it's why we miss so many open shots a lot....shots a lot a lot a lotta lotta lotta lotta shots a lot! The coaches can't coach, but the playas can play, O yes I say, the coaches sure can't coach but the playas sure can play, O to our dismay, can someone save the day?

On troutster, on hondoman, on nightie, on and on and on! Blow the bugles wide, create an ousting tide, on and on and on and on and on!

Please inspire our young men, pepp'em up as best you ken....tell'em to ignore our coach, just listen to your prattle, you can even use a paddle..... to meet out what you know, that will make the Bear's team go-go-go-go go-go-go-go go-go-go-go-go!

We know we know we know, that you really really know, exactly what must get done to get Barry on the run, you know so awful much, we know we're outta touch we gotta use yous for our crutch since we just don't really know......... like you really really know know know know know know know know know!

Please listen to my plea, no rest for those so blind to you who know the score and so much more! More more more more more more more more more! Please tell us more! We want some more! About the coaches that can't coach and the playas that can play....O how you say?.....who could be so much more more more more more more more more more..... with coaches that could coach! Please.....just a little more!

Dude . . . Get in touch with Eminem! This was GREAT!

[NoBSU]

They must be listening to rap during those Springfield Baptist deacon meetings. Pretty good stuff.

I think that MSU problems do lie in the players. I can't stand the offense and think that it requires basketball players who are athletes to make it zoom. Hinson can't get a great shooter who is a great athlete and he does get out coached in games, so it hums. I read last August in one of the national preseason magazines that Barry Hinson has quietly put together an impressive string of seasons at MSU charting the progression of the wins. That does look impressive and on the rise. What the pro-Hinson tub thumpers won't admit is that while it looks good on paper, nobody is coming calling to hire him away. That's because AD's (just like the men who make up the NCAA selection committee) see it as good but not good enough. They also won't face up to the fact that if someone came calling, he would jump at the chance. Because in Hnson's mind it isn't anything that he is doing that is holding him back, it is the school and the players.

[Nyghtewynd]

[deleted some of the dumbest garbage I have ever read]




And people wonder why MSU fans with standards get so upset. This is what they have to deal with on a regular basis.

[BeeLine]

A little humor from pawball; luv it when he gets a med adjustment. And he yanked Nyghte's chain to boot .

[MSNSaluki]

while a hinson admirer for a long time, i'm starting to wonder with the lack of postseason success by the bears.

but let's be honest ... the atmosphere in springfield hasn't been condusive to winning since the sweet 16 season. i get the sense hinson and the basketball program has never had the full support of the community in the past five or six years. maybe some of you guys ought to look in the mirror.

but i'm not hating ... barry better win quick or his *** should be gone. the valley is moving without the bears.

[troutangler]

They must be listening to rap during those Springfield Baptist deacon meetings. Pretty good stuff.

I think that MSU problems do lie in the players. I can't stand the offense and think that it requires basketball players who are athletes to make it zoom. Hinson can't get a great shooter who is a great athlete and he does get out coached in games, so it hums. I read last August in one of the national preseason magazines that Barry Hinson has quietly put together an impressive string of seasons at MSU charting the progression of the wins. That does look impressive and on the rise.

This part of the post is a huge contradiction. You first say the problem lies in the players, then you say you can't stand the offense. While we don't have the best players in the Valley, they are more than enough to get it done. Can you honestly say Creighton has better athletes than MSU? I doubt it, but they've consistently been better than the Bears during Barry's reign.

Hinson doesn't need to get a great shooter who is a great athlete. Just put your shooters in a position to get open shots to begin with instead of them having to create their own shot every time.

What the pro-Hinson tub thumpers won't admit is that while it looks good on paper, nobody is coming calling to hire him away. That's because AD's (just like the men who make up the NCAA selection committee) see it as good but not good enough. They also won't face up to the fact that if someone came calling, he would jump at the chance. Because in Hnson's mind it isn't anything that he is doing that is holding him back, it is the school and the players.

This is a good point. pawball, quit singing your stupid songs and answer this question that he put forth. Why aren't schools hiring Barry away? McDermott makes the tournament for a few years in a row and amazingly he gets hired by a Big 12 school. Barry is happy with MSU because there are no expectations for him here. He can have a job for as long as he wants as long as mediocrity is maintained.

[Nyghtewynd]

A little humor from pawball; luv it when he gets a med adjustment. And he yanked Nyghte's chain to boot .

You mean he invented humor that's not funny? That's a good trick.

And the choir chips in: THERE IS NO TREND!

[Highway65]

Sorry if I sounded harsh but that exactly is the problem with mens hoops and football. Look how long it took for Ball to get fired. I will give Gutin his props.

[NoBSU]

Troutangler, if you treat the MSU team like a high school team then you see my post as a contradiction. Most high school teams (excepting Vashon, Ozark and Kickapoo) don't have the liberty of recruiting so they have to change offensive styles to reflect the talent pool. Universities have the luxury of hiring a coach based upon his past success and his system. The coach then recruits. Actually my post is more of a trap for Pawball. He is correct, the skills of many of the players do not fit the half court man offense. They do not execute it well. Sometimes the McDonalds AAU 4 and 5 star players at KU don't execute it well and they have a more complete skill set. I dislike the halfcourt man offense. You in turn dislike specific players. Pawball dislikes those that constantly dislike Hinson.

The trap for Pawball is that Coach Hinson recruited and is in charge of developing the players for his system. He hasn't changed the players much and he isn't likely to change the halfcourt man offensive system (no matter how many times you ask him too). The compromise is to use the transition and secondary break offense to avoid having to use the halfcourt man offense. Unfortunately Valley coaches don't let him do that. So pray someone lets the Bears run or plays zone.

[Dawgbit]

Hinson should of been canned 2 years ago. With all due respect we hear all these players Hinson gets is great but I think overrated. Ahearn is a one dimensional player and the big men are a joke. Bill Rowe grow some balls.


Yeah, and Marty The Sign Guy is a real DH too!:banana:

[troutangler]

Troutangler, if you treat the MSU team like a high school team then you see my post as a contradiction. Most high school teams (excepting Vashon, Ozark and Kickapoo) don't have the liberty of recruiting so they have to change offensive styles to reflect the talent pool. Universities have the luxury of hiring a coach based upon his past success and his system. The coach then recruits. Actually my post is more of a trap for Pawball. He is correct, the skills of many of the players do not fit the half court man offense. They do not execute it well. Sometimes the McDonalds AAU 4 and 5 star players at KU don't execute it well and they have a more complete skill set. I dislike the halfcourt man offense. You in turn dislike specific players. Pawball dislikes those that constantly dislike Hinson.

The trap for Pawball is that Coach Hinson recruited and is in charge of developing the players for his system. He hasn't changed the players much and he isn't likely to change the halfcourt man offensive system (no matter how many times you ask him too). The compromise is to use the transition and secondary break offense to avoid having to use the halfcourt man offense. Unfortunately Valley coaches don't let him do that. So pray someone lets the Bears run or plays zone.

Well then, we agree on most things. I don't really dislike certain players, but I do think our recruiting direction is misguided. On top of that, we aren't getting the right players in my opinion. I think that with the players we have now, we can be pretty good next year. The year after next will be rough though if something isn't done.

[frontrowdrake]

while a hinson admirer for a long time, i'm starting to wonder with the lack of postseason success by the bears.

but let's be honest ... the atmosphere in springfield hasn't been condusive to winning since the sweet 16 season. i get the sense hinson and the basketball program has never had the full support of the community in the past five or six years. maybe some of you guys ought to look in the mirror.

but i'm not hating ... barry better win quick or his *** should be gone. the valley is moving without the bears.
This has been an interesting thread to read. Honestly, I think Hinson is a good coach. Maybe it is because he always beats us and you guys look like a dream team when you play in Des Moines. Ahearn is an awesome player. MSU you gets the best players from the area, something Drake hasn't done for a while, that's the coach. As far as not making it in the postseason, the Bears got ripped badly last year. There was no excuse for the committee not taking them. ANd finally, what's the comment about the Baptist deacon? I guess we can tolerate any kind of bad public or private behavior all over the NCAA by players and coaches, but it is terrible if you have Baptists in your program. That was uncalled for.

[NoBSU]

Not uncalled for frontrowdrake just inside. I'm a card-carryin' Baptist so I can rip on them all I want. Barry is a very religious and moral man. That is something to admire and not my target. Springfield is a bible thumping town. I personally know a dozen fans (mostly 55-70 in age) who have a very favorable opinion of Barry because of his faith regardless of what goals that he reaches. Do you think that public school coaches job reviews should be faith based frontrow?

[pawball]

My rap’s meant to say: ain’t all black and white. I believe B’s recruited some highly skilled players who have lacked the killer instinct, but who are not as great as many loco’s think. I think B has lacked in the coaching department, but he’s not as terrible as so many B-Bashers make him out to be (when the MSU women’s basketball team went to the Final 4 in 2001, what got them there was the extra work many of those kids put into the game on their own…..that part meant as much or more than the coaching job that was done, imo……somewhere, somehow, the team has to take ownership of itself….yeah, the coach is important, but the players have got to make it happen and want to make it happen). I don’t agree with Trout that after this coming year that things will be down for the Bears…..or with Joey who thinks The Valley is leaving the Bears behind.

[BeeLine]

I don't understand the thinking that the year after this looks all that gloomy. Even if we don't add a single player who contributes that season in the rest of this recruiting season or all next year,the top 6-8 players look pretty good. We'll have a pair of experienced 6'9"/6'10" posts in Frazier and Richards. We'll have two very good wing players in Lamberth and Kirk[ people keep talking about all the good Valley recruits, but keep forgetting Kirk is one of them] and we'll have both Lauries at the guard spots. Spencer is going to be one of the best guards in the Valley the next two seasons, and I remain amused with how many people keep underating Shane and what a solid tough player he is. Not sure what we can expect from the likes of Fuehrmeyer, Parramore, or Deven Mitchell, but for now they will form some of the depth . Obviously the 4 spot is in need, but Jehle projects as someone who can probably be as effective a player as Bilyeu, but we still have a slot this year and all next years recruiting class to add some quality at that spot.Frankly, I think given two more years development for Richards/Frazier/ Lamberth & Shane, the fact it will be Spencer's 2nd year running the team and the soph year for Kirk/ Jehle, add anything at all at the 4 spot and some guard depth and I'll take that team over next years because of the inconsistency shown by the corp of players who will be sr's next year. I think by that year Lamberth and Spencer will both be significant scoring threats,Kirk and Shane will be excellent all around contributors and the post play will be solid. We need to add some talent, but the corp is there for at least this year and the next. It's been a tough last month for Bear fans but let's not totally overlook this team won 22 games, tied for second, did beat every top team but the Shocks, and is probabaly more talented heading into next year when you balance losses of Easley/Thompson vs additions of Laurie/ Kirk/ Mitchell and at least 1-2 others along with the maturation of returning 9 of the top 11 players from last year. And we only lose 3 of those players for the following year.

[frontrowdrake]

Not uncalled for frontrowdrake just inside. I'm a card-carryin' Baptist so I can rip on them all I want. Barry is a very religious and moral man. That is something to admire and not my target. Springfield is a bible thumping town. I personally know a dozen fans (mostly 55-70 in age) who have a very favorable opinion of Barry because of his faith regardless of what goals that he reaches. Do you think that public school coaches job reviews should be faith based frontrow?

Sorry that I took so long to get back NoBSU (btw does that mean you don't have a Baptist Student Union?) I am younger than 55, but one of the things that I do admire about Barry is his faith. But why would I give him a favorable review? Not in any order... 1) He runs a clean program, which I DO believe has a direct relationship to his faith. 2) He treats his players well, with respect and they seem to respect him, again I think his faith has something to do with that. 3) He recruits a lot of local boys. I think that is a great thing. I have been scowled (did I spell that right) for saying that before, but I'd love to see more Iowa kids on Drake's team, more Nebreaska kids on Creighton's and more Kansas kids on WSU's teams. SW Mo kids really look at MSU seriously, then add in recruits as well to round out the team. 4) 20+wins! Every night half the teams playing lose. It is usually not MSU. 5) He does an awesome post game conference! Where he gets those lines! I wish someone would compile a book, I know I'd buy one.

Not to rip on you or any of your Bear fans, I just think many of you are not being fair to Coach B or the program. :bulldogs: :bears:

[engrshock]

In other words Drake fans would love to have MSU's results.

[frontrowdrake]

In other words Drake fans would love to have MSU's results.
yeah:original:

[hondo]

Take them and let us actually gain ground. The problem with all of this is that we appear to be moving forward, because Barry brought us down so far. I agree that 20 wins is definitely great, but the guy before him made it to the Sweet Sixteen. Is that something I expected him to repeat? No, but I'd like to think we'd at least play in the NCAA tournament.

I like most of our players. I think the 5's are getting better and will do a great job for us.

Spencer Laurie is a great addition to our team.

His Sophomore brother is also a good player for us and will be a great one.

Blake Ahearn is a great pure shooter.

Dale Lamberth is a phenomenal offensive talent and will prove that over the next couple of years.

We've got a workhorse in Nate who is one of the hardest working players I've ever seen.

Tyler and Deven are both quality players who, if they both come on this year, will move this team to the next level. Add those two playing well and this team is the best in the Valley. That is by no means a given. In fact, it may not happen, but it doesn't have to. With those two just playing okay, this team is still strong.

We have a new 4 that seems to be athletic and adds that last piece to our puzzle.

The players aren't the problem. Pawball wants to suggest that the coach isn't at fault like posters like me think. He/She is wrong. He is at fault. I used to think that Hinson's best quality was his recruiting. With three players in the last year non-qual and the local guys apparently coming to MSU because it was local, I have changed my mind.

Barry has players that can run and play some serious offense. He has proven to have zero competency coaching offense and has also proven equally unwilling to leave that portion of the game in anyone else's hands. He has focused on D, which has worked in so much as he's won 19 and then over 20 games with a very talented group. But I will point at the other MSU to explain why Barry is an idiot.

Two years ago Mich. State changed everything to compliment its talent. Izzo, a defensive specialist like Barry, realized that his kids weren't as good focusing on Defense and a slow methodical game as they were running and pushing the action, so he changed the style of play to fit his players. They were very successful as a result.

Barry brought in the staff to implement that kind of an offense for a group of players similarly wired and refused to stick with it after one, I repeat one, horrible defeat (Worse, the defeat was his inability to adjust during the game as opposed to the offense and couldn't figure out how to push the ball). That's all about bad, bad, bad coaching. That's just philosophy and coaching issues. I won't even go into the punitive actions the guy takes against the players in the media, the way he refuses to accept responsibility for his mistakes, or how he's purposely lowered fan expectations of the program.