POB to declare for the Draft!

[Majik45]

It's being reported on the Bradley board that Patrick O'Bryant will be holding a press conference this afternoon to declare for the NBA draft. He will not be hiring an agent though at this point, so he may still come back.

I thought this deserved it's own thread since it's a pretty big deal.

[DannyCooksey]

Not all that surprising to me.

He may not be hiring an agent, but don't you think that's just a formality??? With his run and his team's run in the NCAA's, there is little question as to whether he is a 1st rounder, right???

Everything I've read lately has him going in the 10-20 range of Round 1. Thats a nice chunk of guaranteed money right there. I'd like to see the Bulls snap him up at #16. In a couple years, he and Tyson Chandler would be a great duo. Many shots blocked with those two.

I guess if he does in fact leave, then Xavier Crawford will have some big shoes to fill earlier than maybe he would like.

:valley:

[3baller]

That's too bad for BU fans, he's a great player. But it definitly makes our league look good that we can have a guy come out early and go in the 1st round. Good luck to POB! I'm glad UNI won't be facing him anymore!!!

[azbirdfan]

Even as an Illinois State fan and a "bitter rival" of Bradley, I hope O'Bryant comes back. It's better for Bradley and better for the Valley as a whole to have him in this league as long as he can be. I want to see every team raise the bar and Bradley with O'Bryant certainly does that for all of us.

If I were him, I'd only go if I were projected as a lottery pick and if that's the case, I can't blame him for going. Who was that guy that played for Western Kentucky who was supposedly going to be a lottery pick when he came back for his senior year and got injured and never ended up in the league when he would have had a guaranteed payday? This was in the last few years. I certainly see the advantages from O'Bryant's standpoint of going in that respect.

[MSU Bleeds Maroon]

It's better for Bradley and better for the Valley as a whole to have him in this league as long as he can be. I want to see every team raise the bar and Bradley with O'Bryant certainly does that for all of us.


QFA. POB could be a lottery pick next year, with an even bigger guaranteed contract. Plus, his return to "a mid-major" would give Billy pACCker a year's worth of nightmares. :grin:

[salukibob]

Time for a Hawk Harrelson response..........'He gone!'

[WSUfan]

Time for a Hawk Harrelson response..........'He gone!'
I hope you are wrong. He helps make the Valley stronger.

[DannyCooksey]

Time for a Hawk Harrelson response

There is never time for a response from that boob. He's not going anywhere yet. He hasn't hired an agent. If he does, then he's leaving. until then............who knows???

I agree with AZ. O'Bryant is a great player and our league needs some more national respect for the great players it has. Staying another year will only help his draft status in my mind. Yes, he could get injured, but anyone that watches him knows his best basketball is well down the road.

O'Bryant is not like Vince Young. I know he's a football player, but he HAD to come out this year. If Young stayed for his senior year, he would have been disected to the point that he would have fallen into the low first round. His stock would have certainly fallen. O'Braynt's will rise if he stays.

One thing to consider: Greg Oden. If Joakim Noah stays and Oden comes out next year as expected, O'Bryant would be the 3rd best center (at best) in next years draft. Just something to ponder.

[MSNSaluki]

POB is making a big mistake if he goes pro this year.

[SubGod22]

The Sox announcers annoy the piss out of me. Please never reference them again.

[jt45]

[QUOTE=joey eischen]POB is making a big mistake if he goes pro this year.

You can think that all you want as he will be laughing his *** off running to the bank to cash his fat *** check.

[MSNSaluki]

[QUOTE=joey eischen]POB is making a big mistake if he goes pro this year.

You can think that all you want as he will be laughing his *** off running to the bank to cash his fat *** check.


he'll be laughing his *** off at me at the bank in a month or two but i'll be laughing my *** off at him when he's working security at the par-a-dice in five years.
he needs another year or two in college to ensure he'll have a decent pro career.

[cf panther]

POB is making a big mistake if he goes pro this year.

...But it would be a much bigger mistake if he stays as BU and wrecks his knee... To quote a movie; "SHOW ME THE MONEY!!!" I think that folks need to sit back and put things into perspective. If a business major were offered a multi-million dollar CEO position following their sophomore year of school; should they NOT take the position?!?:lol:

[outpost]

POB is making a big mistake if he goes pro this year.

At least a 7 foot mistake.

He should stay. I don't see him being ready yet.

[kyyle23]

The Sox announcers annoy the piss out of me. Please never reference them again.

You shouldnt have told me that :)

Because from now on, I will consider everything a can of corn, He gone, Grab some bench, and you can put it on the board.

I love being a fan of the World Champion Chicago White Sox :original: :lol: :grin:

[outpost]

Maybe that's why Bradley's baseball team was distracted today.........

[BUBraves55]

That's too bad for BU fans, he's a great player. But it definitly makes our league look good that we can have a guy come out early and go in the 1st round. Good luck to POB! I'm glad UNI won't be facing him anymore!!!
unfortunately i think you're right but he obviously wants to keep the bu option at least some what available other wise he would have hired an agent.

[kyyle23]

Is this confirmed yet? Is there a link?

[Majik45]

He's officially announced, but he did not hire an agent:

http://www.bubraves.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=3400&ATCLID=270481

http://pjstar.com/stories/042206/BRA_B9K4JFN9.071.shtml

http://wmbd1470.com/archives/2006/04/22/journal-star-obryant-to-announce-future-plans-today/

[Nyghtewynd]

I don't know what I think about this. I don't think he's really ready to head to the NBA, but if he thinks he can get drafted in the first round, that's guaranteed money, and I can't really blame him.

[Canevision]

[QUOTE=jt45]


he'll be laughing his *** off at me at the bank in a month or two but i'll be laughing my *** off at him when he's working security at the par-a-dice in five years.
he needs another year or two in college to ensure he'll have a decent pro career.

Unless he's an idiot and wastes his money, he'll never have to worry about working a regular job in his life. You can't blame a kid for getting at least 3 million guaranteed dollars.

It's his choice, how do we know his family doesn't need the money etc. I'm not in a position to judge whether he's ready to go or not.

[MSNSaluki]

...But it would be a much bigger mistake if he stays as BU and wrecks his knee... To quote a movie; "SHOW ME THE MONEY!!!" I think that folks need to sit back and put things into perspective. If a business major were offered a multi-million dollar CEO position following their sophomore year of school; should they NOT take the position?!?:lol:

simple solution: buy insurance.
he wrecks he knee but still has a degree.

[cf panther]

simple solution: buy insurance.
he wrecks he knee but still has a degree.

Style points for the catchy rhyme... However, that degree can always be had after he makes his $$$. If things go the way they should, he won't need one of those anyways... The insurance is definitely necessary, but who knows how that would all work out? Plus, if he is injured as a rookie in the NBA, he still gets to say he was there. Not the case if he needs to rely on insurance payments.

[redbirdtim]

I cannot blame athletes sometimes for leaving school and going pro, especially with the money and the opportunity to go back to school and finish a degree. If you think about it, it is his choice. We went through this with Rico Hill a few years back. You want the player to stay so much as he's an integral part of the program, but you have to respect the decision of the player to do what he wants. For all those BU fans saying POB will not make it, is that more out of spite or do you honestly think he won't make it? Who knows, he could get to the NBA and get with a good coach who can develop him.

It is always an interesting offer for those who think anyone who leaves school and doesn't make it in the pros will end up in some 'dead-end' job. If I'm not mistaken, POB's credits do not simply "go away," so he could just come back and finish if he chooses. A great money manager will take those millions he makes and invest it wisely.

[Mikovio]

For all those BU fans saying POB will not make it, is that more out of spite or do you honestly think he won't make it?

What BU fan has said that?

A great money manager will take those millions he makes and invest it wisely.

Makes sense.

[Majik45]

Most NBA Draft sites have POB going anywhere from 10th to the late first round. The average is usually between about 15-20. Obviously someone is telling him that's he's going to go very high.

[kyyle23]

Most NBA Draft sites have POB going anywhere from 10th to the late first round. The average is usually between about 15-20. Obviously someone is telling him that's he's going to go very high.

The common catchphrase is "You can't teach height", and POB has it. And even though he isnt as strong as we all think he should be in order to enter the NBA, if he goes to the NBA we all know that he really isnt going to have a choice but to hit the weights if he wants to flourish. POB isnt extremely polished around the rim, but he does have some post moves and presence. LOL, Im a Bulls fan and I know for a fact that his moves are better than Tyson Chandlers, and they are close to the same height and build. If POB is going to go anywhere from 10-20, I think its a foregone conclusion that he is going to the NBA. He is going to get gauranteed money, and thats what the kids want. All an agent has to whisper in his ear is "If you stay for one more year in college and get hurt...". It sucks for the Valley as a whole, because POB became a highly recognizable player during the tournament, and that can only help the league gain recognition around the NCAA BBall circles.

Tough luck on Les. He has recruited 3 potential NBA stars in the past 4 years(Joah Tucker, Danny Granger, POB) and never had a chance to get something really awesome accomplished with them.

[cf panther]

Who knows, he could get to the NBA and get with a good coach who can develop him.



Good point. Hmm...Jim Les and Bradley's training staff vs. Phil Jackson and the resources of the LA Lakers?? I wonder who would do a better job at "developing" O'Bryant...:lol:

[brocks]

Good point. Hmm...Jim Les and Bradley's training staff vs. Phil Jackson and the resources of the LA Lakers?? I wonder who would do a better job at "developing" O'Bryant...:lol:

I'd say Jim Les & staff have done a fine job turning a skinny kid from Minnesota into an NBA lottery pick in TWO YEARS . . . maybe too fine for their own good!

[Mikovio]

Good point. Hmm...Jim Les and Bradley's training staff vs. Phil Jackson and the resources of the LA Lakers?? I wonder who would do a better job at "developing" O'Bryant...:lol:

That's a moot point, since the terms of his initial contract will by then be hammered out.

Unless we're already in discussion of his viability in being re-signed....

[redbirdtim]

"he'll be laughing his *** off at me at the bank in a month or two but i'll be laughing my *** off at him when he's working security at the par-a-dice in five years.
he needs another year or two in college to ensure he'll have a decent pro career."

My bad...that was Eischen. I also know a bunch of BU fans who feel the same way as Eischen, and I can tell you it's sour grapes. However, I will say I wish POB the best of luck in the pros. I can't help be happy for how this could help the Birds. POB would have had BU in the top 3 in the Valley preseason, even without Sommerville to draw off some defense. I do give credit to the BU coaching staff for getting POB and drawing out his potential.

[Mikovio]

I also know a bunch of BU fans who feel the same way as Eischen, and I can tell you it's sour grapes.

MSU fans that demand Sweet 16's minimum every year and BU fans that hate Patrick O'Bryant? You certainly have some strange characters living over there in Normal....

[Canevision]

MSU fans that demand Sweet 16's minimum every year and BU fans that hate Patrick O'Bryant? You certainly have some strange characters living over there in Normal....

I don't think Eiaschen is an MSU fan, is he?

It's pretty standard for an NBA contract to have language that the team will pay for the player finishing college after his career is over if he wishes. The same thing in baseball.

POB has little incentive to stay other than developing another year and hoping to go higher. As has been pointed out, next year's draft will have much better big men than this one, so he may not even go higher next year.

[Mikovio]

I don't think Eiaschen is an MSU fan, is he?

I have no idea. Why do you ask?

I was referencing cpacmel and azbirdfan's posts in another thread, about how MSU fans are unrealistic. It just seems to me that a lot of Redbird fans on here are getting some strange impressions from the rest of the league, for whatever reason.

POB has little incentive to stay other than developing another year and hoping to go higher.

In regards to his draft status, yes, of course the incentive for staying is "developing and hoping to go higher." But there are other considerations....

[Canevision]

In regards to his draft status, yes, of course the incentive for staying is "developing and hoping to go higher." But there are other considerations....

Which is exactly what I have said repeatedly in this thread. I'm sorry, but your posts have been all over the place in this thread. You quoted Eischen and then talked about ISU fans thoughts from another thread on MSU fans expectations?

MSU fans do not have unrealistic expectations BTW. They should expect to play postseason every single year. It used to be our past, no reason not to expect that again. I'm not saying they'll actually be in postseason every year, I'm saying if they aren't, it's a disappointment.

[MSNSaluki]

"he'll be laughing his *** off at me at the bank in a month or two but i'll be laughing my *** off at him when he's working security at the par-a-dice in five years.
he needs another year or two in college to ensure he'll have a decent pro career."

My bad...that was Eischen. I also know a bunch of BU fans who feel the same way as Eischen, and I can tell you it's sour grapes. However, I will say I wish POB the best of luck in the pros. I can't help be happy for how this could help the Birds. POB would have had BU in the top 3 in the Valley preseason, even without Sommerville to draw off some defense. I do give credit to the BU coaching staff for getting POB and drawing out his potential.


I really am not trying to bash POB. Does he have potential? Yes. Is he NBA ready right now? I'm not sure.
If he was a top-10 pick now, I'd say he has to go. But once you get past the first 10 picks in the draft it really doesn't mean much. The salary cap handcuffs a lot of NBA teams so they'll pick a Russian who is locked up for three more years instead of having to pay someone.
I just know how hard it is for a kid to leave school and come back later to get a degree (it just about killed me). And when it's all said and done, that's what these players go to school for in the first place, right?

[Nyghtewynd]

Apparently "reading comprehension" is not required to graduate from Bradley. Is everything there in picture book form or something?

[Mikovio]

You quoted Eischen and then talked about ISU fans thoughts from another thread on MSU fans expectations?

I never quoted Eischen.

Not everyone will understand my subtlety. For instance, when redbirdtim wrote, "A great money manager will take those millions he makes and invest it wisely," he was being redundant and I found it quite humorous. But I'm not just going to come out and say it. That's not funny at all. And so if you're quickly scanning through posts, it will probably go over your head.

MSU fans do not have unrealistic expectations BTW. They should expect to play postseason every single year. It used to be our past, no reason not to expect that again. I'm not saying they'll actually be in postseason every year, I'm saying if they aren't, it's a disappointment.

I know. In fact I'm one of the few that felt their expectations were NOT unrealistic.


Apparently "reading comprehension" is not required to graduate from Bradley. Is everything there in picture book form or something?

What and who is this in reference to, in particular?

The quote feature is there for a reason.

[MSU Bleeds Maroon]

MSU fans that demand Sweet 16's minimum every year and BU fans that hate Patrick O'Bryant? You certainly have some strange characters living over there in Normal....

Ever since they put Jim Jones in charge of the B/N water supply, those nutty Redbird fans have been hallucinating all kinds of things. :lol:

[redbirdtim]

Sorry Mik, I shouldn't have said what a money manager does.

Eisch, I wasn't saying there was anything wrong with your opinion. I was just saying that a lot of BU fans that I know (and no Mik, they aren't from Normal) with your similar attitude have sour grapes. I know you're an SIU fan, so you wouldn't have sour grapes over BU.

Mik is too dense to actually read a post and comment on what was actually said. I never said that BU fans "hated" POB, just that they were not happy with his decision. But that's Mik for ya...

As for BU...you don't even need to "read" the picture books if you are on the basketball team, just work for Star Transport :lol:

[Mikovio]

Sorry Mik, I shouldn't have said what a money manager does.

What are you apologizing for? Great money managers DO invest wisely. It's almost insightful.

Eisch, I wasn't saying there was anything wrong with your opinion. I was just saying that a lot of BU fans that I know (and no Mik, they aren't from Normal) with your similar attitude have sour grapes. I know you're an SIU fan, so you wouldn't have sour grapes over BU.

Fair enough. Since you allegedly make it out to every single ISU athletic event, I figured that you must live in Normal or its immediate vicinity.

You don't live in Peoria, do you? Because I know in that city, at least, "spite" isn't the prevailing attitude.

Mik is too dense to actually read a post and comment on what was actually said.

Actually, I just don't have much toleration for ignorance.

As for my comments, I only address the points that I disagree with or generally interest me. For instance, I may agree with the tone and conclusion of a post but take issue with a supporting argument within a post. My overall agreement will not prevent me from addressing the subsidiary point.

Or, if something amuses me, I'll be sure and point that out as well. If there's anything else you'd like me to address, feel free.


I never said that BU fans "hated" POB, just that they were not happy with his decision. But that's Mik for ya...

You said that they were 'spiteful.' Therefore, the obvious implication is that their "unhappiness" went beyond the decision itself.

Do you know what the word "spite" means?

As for BU...you don't even need to "read" the picture books if you are on the basketball team, just work for Star Transport :lol:

Meanwhile at ISU, you don't even need to play basketball well in order to play on the basketball team....

[MSNSaluki]

there is so much conflict over POB's decision on this board and we have no stake in things. just imagine what he and kids like him around the country go through on a yearly basis.

it's a tough call.

[C0|db|00ded]

There is nothing tough about POB's decision. If he is convinced based on his discussions with NBA team representatives that he will get selected for guaranteed millions he must leave. The opportunity cost in that situation would be too high for him to stay in school. School is forever, millions are not. He will earn in one day what a person making 50k will earn in 40.


T


...:cool:

[troutangler]

There is nothing tough about POB's decision. If he is convinced based on his discussions with NBA team representatives that he will get selected for guaranteed millions he must leave. The opportunity cost in that situation would be too high for him to stay in school. School is forever, millions are not. He will earn in one day what a person making 50k will earn in 40.


T


...:cool:

I hate to say it, but I agree with Clotbrain.

There is no reason for POB not to go pro if he's getting that much money. He can always come back and finish up his last two years of school. Even if he's a career bench player he can make millions and retire a wealthy man.

Go for it.

[redbirdtim]

Mik,

Now let's use that brain of yours you claim you have. Nowhere in my post did I say I wasn't from Normal. You assumed that I wasn't from Normal because I said I had friends from outside of Normal. But that's okay, you assume a lot of things.

The apology was a sarcastic one for your redundant comment.

I have also never claimed to make it to "every single" athletics event. I make as many events as I can, but then again, you assume stuff like that to try and knock another poster. However, I will take this time to congratulate our men's and women's tennis teams for winning regular season conference tennis titles. I was at the women's match the other day, but the men were on the road (men were undefeated in conference play).

You also say I used the word spiteful. I said sour grapes. Let's not try to quote someone as saying something like spiteful and then try to translate into them being unhappy and hating POB. They are upset with his decision for what it does to BU, not because they hate POB. When you say you do not tolerate ignorance, wish you held that standard to yourself...when you do try and argue a "supporting argument." At least get the correct wording behind the subpoint down.

[Mikovio]

The apology was a sarcastic one for your redundant comment.

I don't think I've said this in 10 years but...duh.

You also say I used the word spiteful. I said sour grapes. Let's not try to quote someone as saying something like spiteful and then try to translate into them being unhappy and hating POB. They are upset with his decision for what it does to BU, not because they hate POB.

YOU DID USE THE WORD "SPITE." GO BACK AND READ THE THREAD.

And I'll go to the dictionary for you, because apparently you don't own one. Merriam-Webster defines "spite" as "petty ill will or hatred."

So obviously these Bradley fans who say he won't make it "out of spite" would have something against POB.

You're nonsense.

[DawgieStyle]

Do I think the POB should stay in college, yah, I think anyone under the age of 22 should not be allowed in the NBA, period, I don't care if you are Lebron James. But in the real world, thats not the case, and since the rules allow it, I can't knock POB for going pro, he's not breaking any rules, he's only potentially hurting him self. And I say potential, because he has the potential to be good, and he also has the potential to be really really bad. No matter if he's a lottery pick or not, he's a "project" in the NBA at this point, and probbably still would have been a project if he stayed until his senior year. POB doesn't see enough quality big men in the MVC to polish his post game between now and his senior year. Sad but True. Since he's a project in the NBA, we can argue to death about how good or bad he might be in potential years, but 4 things are for sure. 1) He will not make an immediate impact on the NBA 2) To improve against quality big men and poish his game, he had to go pro 3) He's gonna be a rich boy whether he sucks or is an all star 4) Bradley is in trouble next year. Everything else is up for grabs.

[redbirdtim]

Now Mik,

If you're going to try to be Mr. Dictionary, please reference my quote.

"For all those BU fans saying POB will not make it, is that more out of spite or do you honestly think he won't make it? "

I asked a question posed to BU fans asking if it was spite or if they honestly didn't make it. I know where declared that it was spite that BU fans had; I just simply posed a QUESTION, not a DECLARATIVE STATEMENT. Get a copy of a 5th grade English textbook and teach yourself what the BU profs did not teach you. So take that dictionary, hit yourself upside the head a few thousand times, and knock some sense into yourself. If you're trying to make a point, get things right because it makes you look like a clown. The assumptions you are making without properly clarifying ideas and thoughts makes you look foolish.

Mik: "So obviously these Bradley fans who say he won't make it "out of spite" would have something against POB.

You're nonsense."

Actually clown, you're nonsense. If you could read things and understand things correctly, I wouldn't have to waste my time correcting you :grin:

[TrueBlueJay]

Do I think the POB should stay in college, yah, I think anyone under the age of 22 should not be allowed in the NBA, period, I don't care if you are Lebron James. .

This has to be one of the dumbest statements I've ever read here. We do live in America, don't we? Since when did we dictate to a grown person, someone of legal age to vote and fight wars, when the can or cannot make a living?

If a kid was a computer genius and was making millions at the age of 18, would anyone care?

What about tennis players, do you have a problem with them making the big bucks at an early age? Or golfers - what about Michelle Wie? I'm banking she doesn't go to college.

Get off your high horse about "higher education". This kid has a change to make millions of dollars. Who do you think you are to be able to tell someone they can't?

Danny Noonan: I gotta go to college.
Ty Webb: You don't have to go to college. This isn't Russia. Is this Russia? This isn't Russia.

[DawgieStyle]

siggghhh.....this may be America, but many companies have pre-qualifications on being able to be hired. To become a Doctor you MUST go to Medical School and take the MCATS, to Become an Architect you MUST go to school and Complete the ARE exams, To become even an Operating Engineer you MUST go to Technical School and pass their test, to become a Lawyer you MUST go to school and pass the BAR. Yep these are American jobs as well, and every single one of them requires a COLLEGE DEGREE!!!!!!!!!!!!! If some one is going to make millions of dollars for playing a game, they better at least earn it, go to college, develop your craft and you might end up with a better product than what the NBA currently offers, because right now the NBA sucks, and a lot of it has to do with kids skipping college. All pro atheletes shoud have to complete college or if you are from a foreign country, you must have an equilavent level of education or be able to pass a certain test, similar to what Lawyers and Doctors have to complete before being called "professionals." Yep this is America and we should hold our basketball players to as a high level as everyone else. You my friend, are the lost one.

[MikeKennedyRulz]

It would have been a joke for someone like Lebron James to go to college. He is a man among boys (mostly) in the NBA. Can you imagine him going up against someone like Blake Ahearn in college?

[DawgieStyle]

clearly there are exceptions to every rule, but does that mean the rules shouldn't exist or shouldn't apply to LBJ the same as everyone else? My opion is no. No matter anyones talent level, no one is above the rules of society, thats what keeps society working. We've seen what happens in countries or societies where the elite are held above the rules and laws, corruption and anarchy ensue, its a time tested theory. Now should we take basketball as seriously as life and society, no...its a game. But as is everything, it is a representation of our society, the american society, and the NCAA and NBA should reflect that to a degree. And if an age limit is placed on the NBA, no singular talent should be allowed to break that rule or law, just as no singular person is held above the law in everyday society, such as George Ryan the former Gov. of Illinois, or how about Richard Nixon being impeached.

[TrueBlueJay]

siggghhh.....this may be America, but many companies have pre-qualifications on being able to be hired. To become a Doctor you MUST go to Medical School and take the MCATS, to Become an Architect you MUST go to school and Complete the ARE exams, To become even an Operating Engineer you MUST go to Technical School and pass their test, to become a Lawyer you MUST go to school and pass the BAR. Yep these are American jobs as well, and every single one of them requires a COLLEGE DEGREE!!!!!!!!!!!!! If some one is going to make millions of dollars for playing a game, they better at least earn it, go to college, develop your craft and you might end up with a better product than what the NBA currently offers, because right now the NBA sucks, and a lot of it has to do with kids skipping college. All pro atheletes shoud have to complete college or if you are from a foreign country, you must have an equilavent level of education or be able to pass a certain test, similar to what Lawyers and Doctors have to complete before being called "professionals." Yep this is America and we should hold our basketball players to as a high level as everyone else. You my friend, are the lost one.

What about our golfers? What about our tennis players? If Microsoft wanted to hire a computer wiz straight out of HS, do you think they should be able to do this? Of course they should.

If someone is capable of earning their livelihood, then let's not stop them. Obviously someone who has not been to medical schhol and gotten that training is not capable of practicing medicine. Basketball my friend is NOT brain surgery. What does level of education have to do with being able to shoot, dribble, pass and play defense??? Look - even the banana can play D :banana:

You are SO far off the mark here it isn't even funny. I'll state it again. If a person is capable of earning a living doing a job, they should not, and as far as I know in this country, are NOT stopped from earning said living.

By the way - you do not have to go to law school to take the BAR.

[DawgieStyle]

good point about the BAR, but your statement about being Capable of earning a living is a good one. It just so happens I agree with you, but in my agreement, I believe one being capable of earning a living in the NBA, that a college degree or equivalent education is needed. an 18 year old IMO (and its only mine) is not mature enough to handle the pressure, money mgt. and stress that a professional career in the NBA will Bring. A college education would better prepare them for the great influx of money, fame, women, and stress of that life, not to mention allow them to physically mature enough to bang with the likes of SHAQ night in and night out. I agree with your statement, I just think being capable of earning a living in the NBA, means having a college level education and the maturity you gain with that. I think the over all NBA product would greatly benefit from this.

[BlueDude]

I'm not going to go as far as to say he would be an idiot to not take the money...
However, I have a database of about 65 former MVC players that are playing some form of organized basketball in the US or overseas. The majority of those are in the ABA which is basically town team ball and they may make a few hundred per game, not sure. What can they make overseas? Maybe 30K to 100K? I don't know, except that it is not NBA money.

There are a whopping two NBA'ers as far as I know from the league, Korver (CU) Sixers and Troy Hudson (SIU) T-Wolves /injured most of year?. Buford (CU) may not make it back again with his "baggage", to use the parlance of our times.

Our combined recruiting may be getting better, but the cold hard truth is that not many from our beloved league cut it in the NBA. Only a few guys from the Valley even get an opportunity, I would take it, being the greedy bastard I am.

And a good day to you kind sirs.

[TrueBlueJay]

Fair enough Dawgie - I get your point. I just think it is very difficult to dictate to someone when they can make money. I wouldn't want to be the one to tell POB "no" and then (God forbid) have him blow out his knee the next season.

In my opinion, each individual in the US should be able to grab the golden ring when the opportunity avails itself.

[Mikovio]

Now Mik,

If you're going to try to be Mr. Dictionary, please reference my quote.

"For all those BU fans saying POB will not make it, is that more out of spite or do you honestly think he won't make it? "

I asked a question posed to BU fans asking if it was spite or if they honestly didn't make it. I know where declared that it was spite that BU fans had; I just simply posed a QUESTION, not a DECLARATIVE STATEMENT. Get a copy of a 5th grade English textbook and teach yourself what the BU profs did not teach you. So take that dictionary, hit yourself upside the head a few thousand times, and knock some sense into yourself. If you're trying to make a point, get things right because it makes you look like a clown. The assumptions you are making without properly clarifying ideas and thoughts makes you look foolish.

Mik: "So obviously these Bradley fans who say he won't make it "out of spite" would have something against POB.

You're nonsense."

Actually clown, you're nonsense. If you could read things and understand things correctly, I wouldn't have to waste my time correcting you :grin:

Not so fast there, Timmy.

I understood it perfectly and I foresaw this response as well (although I had my doubts that you would get this far).

The problem here is that you have already answered your own question yourself. You left no doubt as to your intentions by typing after that question, "I was just saying that a lot of BU fans that I know (and no Mik, they aren't from Normal) with your similar attitude have sour grapes."

Which rendered your first question rhetorical and your intentions unmasked.

I don't think there's any question which, out of the two options you initially gave ("out of spite" or "honestly think he won't make it"), YOU tend to believe yourself.

Checkmate.

[redbirdtim]

DawgieStyle is entitled to his/her opinion, but I disagree tremendously with it. I'm sorry but some people are not college material and should not be forced to go to college to play pro basketball. The NBA can choose what they want to be the eligibility requirements for their players. If a player gets millions of dollars to play a game and he's not a certain age/hasn't been to college, then so be it. If you say pro basketball players should be a certain age, then you have to say that all athletes and other employees should have the same standards. You can't say that just basketball players or just athletes should have these rules.

As for this agrument, "I just think being capable of earning a living in the NBA, means having a college level education and the maturity you gain with that. I think the over all NBA product would greatly benefit from this."

Ask Lebron James or Kobe about that one. I also know a lot of college athletes that still succumb to all the pressures, including some SIU players currently in college. In addition, I know a lot of athletes who have a "college level education" who are as dumb as a box of rocks and just have their diploma because of the sport they play.

[DawgieStyle]

1) I do agree, ALL! pro athletics should have some sort of age requirement and some sort of entrance exam. Not saying it has to be as difficult as the BAR by any means, but some sort of exam to show you are competent would be a start. If you have a college diploma you automatically can skip the exam..there's the waiver.

2)Yes LBJ and KOBE didn't need a college education, and yes they are all stars, but they are in the minority in the NBA, thats the problem with your rationale, they are the exception to the rule. For every all star that came straight out of HS, there are 20 other NBA guys who's games would have been tremendously better by attending college and developing their skills at the college level. The whole OVER ALL product would benefit. Instead of seeing teams being dominated by "the man" like Kobe and LBJ, we might see team basketball again in the NBA, like europeans do, who by the way are kicking our butts in international play for this very reason, and that should be proof enough: How bad the USA NBA dream team is getting their butts kicked by the international community. Our US Teams have NO, I repeat NO! fundamental basketball skill, none. You know where you learn fundamental basketball skills.....college. Case in point Tim Duncan. Does anyone not think he is a far better player for sticking it out all 4 years in college. He is the most fundamentally sound player in the NBA, and he just happened to graduate college. If all our players were as polished as he was, just imagine how much that would transcend the NBA's game.

[thetruthhurts]

Just because someone passes a test doesn't make them competent for the job. Competency is determined by the employer. If an NBA employer finds an underclassmen then, well, they are competent.

I could care less about a piece of paper stating something. That doesn't mean competency. It means you passed a test or a few classes. It's irrelevant to doing the job in the NBA, etc.

[DawgieStyle]

you have your answers, i have mine..its apparrent some of us aren't going to agree any time soon. The fact of the matter is that I simply believe that for the amount of money professional atheletes make and the role they play as role models to our children (which is another topic for discussion) that they simply need to be held to the same standards as the rest of society both physically, academically and mentally, and maybe higher because of their position in society. They would be better people for it, the children who idolize these players would be better people for it, and the games themselves would be better for it as well. We would truly see a higher level of competition if an age limit and some sort of academic standard was set in professional athletics. That is my opinion, if agree, cool, if you don't cool.

[DawgieStyle]

and for the record..i type like crap.

[redbirdtim]

So Dawgie, when I was younger I idolized police officers, firefighters, and soldiers. I also know many young children who to the same. Are you saying that all of these people should have to graduate college as well?

You do make a good point on how they are role models. But if you make the point for them, I don't think you can logically not make the point for these others.

[redbirdtim]

Actually Mik,

You ASSume a lot. I actually think some Bradley fans think O'Bryant won't succeed as a pro. While most fans are probably mad at him leaving, some I am sure believe he will not make it. I'm sure some people said Kwame Brown would not succeed. I'm sure people said the same thing about Lebron, Kobe, Garnett, and a host of other players. People here were both ways on Rico Hill. I honestly would have liked to see him take another year and develop rather than leave for the draft. Turned out he could have used another year to develop.

And since I know my intentions, "Which rendered your first question rhetorical and your intentions unmasked." That makes that point moot because I was honestly asking that question-since I know my intentions. Before you ASSume a checkmate, look at the whole board-like in chess, you look like a fool if you call a false checkmate.

[outpost]

I would not want to stand in the way of players leaving, if they believe that they're ready. I don't mean just physically, but in many other ways.......

For example, I would like to see the pro leagues implement some sort of course designed to help a neophyte athlete understand some basics about budgeting, investing, and financial management and above all responsibility.

Many of them are just not equipped to handle all of the money that is thrown their way. They are led down the wrong path, and too often become unwitting, gullible victims.

Now I don't know POB personally, but I believe that he is probably receiving good guidance and counseling from his parents. This preparation may not be a problem with him, especially since he hasn't selected an agent.

I think that he could use another year of physical preparation, though. And what better league than the Valley to help prepare him?

[MSNSaluki]

I'm sorry but some people are not college material and should not be forced to go to college to play pro basketball.

So, who put the gun to POB's head and made him sign his national letter of intent with Bradley? College didn't seem like a bad idea at the time. I'm sorry he's had to suffer through his free education for two years.

Here's what's been lost in this entire argument: College basketball as a whole suffers due to early defections to the NBA. Programs suffer due to the whims of 18- and 19-year olds, who suddenly hear from all their friends and advisors they are NBA worthy and they leave school and leave programs in a lurch. Is that their right? Of course it is. Everybody should have the chance to chase whatever dreams they have.

But I'd be in favor of making a college scholarship as binding as a four-year hitch in the Army. You sign ... you're not going anywhere for four years. You don't like those terms? Then don't sign and take the chance on becoming the next Korleone Young.

[TrueBlueJay]

But I'd be in favor of making a college scholarship as binding as a four-year hitch in the Army. You sign ... you're not going anywhere for four years. You don't like those terms? Then don't sign and take the chance on becoming the next Korleone Young.

You can't be serious.

[Jayball]

The NBA already has player education programs.

http://www.nbpa.com/playerprograms_pub.php

NBA can set whatever eligibility criteria it wants for its leauge, but I don't see how a college degree would ever be a reasonable part of that equation.

I understand your sentiments Dawgiestyle but they are a unrealistic and unecessary IMO. A college degree isn't going to guarantee a better product or better role models.

[redbirdtim]

"So, who put the gun to POB's head and made him sign his national letter of intent with Bradley? College didn't seem like a bad idea at the time. I'm sorry he's had to suffer through his free education for two years.'

I think POB has more than made up for his free education at BU with leading them to the Sweet 16. And besides, it's more than free-he gets paid too! The thing about it is though, universities know that players can leave. They just have to hope they don't.

[MSNSaluki]

You can't be serious.

What part of my post makes it seem as if I'm joking?
I say let's make "student-athlete" an accurate phrase again.
If you only view college as a place to work on your basketball skills, that's what the NBA's developmental league is for. Let's bring in kids who want to do both.
Just my opinion.

[MSNSaluki]

"The thing about it is though, universities know that players can leave. They just have to hope they don't.

I can't argue that point. That's why the Valley has risen in the last few years ... it's a problem we haven't had to deal with much.

It's such an ugly trickle-down. Coaches KNOW when they are recruiting a kid might only be at his school for a year or two but there is such pressure to win they still sign them and figure they'll work things out later. Is is any wonder why schools such as Kentucky are so mediocre anymore? It's because they lose a kid or two to the NBA every year and they can't replace them. That's how a walk-on became a starter this past year for the Wildcats. In the old days, that never would have been possible.

[troutangler]

.

[troutangler]

Some of the comments in this thread, especially from DawgieStyle, are nothing short of idiotic.

I'm tired of people playing the "society" card every time they want to make a point. Society doesn't set the rules for getting a job. A Fortune 500 company isn't required to make its employees have college degrees, it does it because it is necessary and because they want their employees to have degrees. Along those same lines, the NBA determines the entrance requirements into its league. The government or anyone else telling them what to do is reaching a bit far, almost into socialism. If a player can play, he will be in the league. End of story. It is completely STUPID to even talk about having to have any college, much less a freaking college degree to play professional sports. I don't pay outlandishly high ticket prices to watch only college graduates play NFL games or drive in NASCAR races. I want to see good players, nothing else.

As far as the NBA being crap, the Olympic team stinking, blah blah blah...

The NBA is not the level of basketball that is down right now. College is. You can be mad at players skipping college or leaving early because it hurts the college game, not because it hurts the NBA. Why do you think the best international players are coming to the NBA in the last few years? Because it's the best basketball in the world with the best players playing. The "NBA sucks" or the "no fundamentals" rap is a cop out. The Olympic thing is really, really off base. Guess what? If we put Kobe, Duncan, Shaq, Iverson, and Lebron as a starting five on the Olympic team and use backups like Dwayne Wade, Amare Stoudamire, Gilbert Arenas, etc., there is ABSOLUTELY NO WAY anyone would have a chance in Olympic/International competition. We would blow the competition out of the water.

Quit being stupid. It's annoying.

[KingTut]

Who was that guy that played for Western Kentucky who was supposedly going to be a lottery pick when he came back for his senior year and got injured and never ended up in the league when he would have had a guaranteed payday?

His name was Chris Marcus.
http://www.wkuherald.com/media/storage/paper603/news/2003/02/06/Sports/Mens-Basketball.Marcus.Done.For.Good-361905.shtml?norewrite200604250117&sourcedomain=www.wkuherald.com

[MSNSaluki]

His name was Chris Marcus.
http://www.wkuherald.com/media/storage/paper603/news/2003/02/06/Sports/Mens-Basketball.Marcus.Done.For.Good-361905.shtml?norewrite200604250117&sourcedomain=www.wkuherald.com


the sad part of that story is the paragraph where it said he was dropping all of his classes and moving back home with his parents.

wonder if he ever got his degree?

[DawgieStyle]

Trout angler...I offerred up in one of my post, that for the sake of argument, some of us were not going to agree on this issue, we're just not. It's just a difference of opinion and I'm cool with that, most other posters are too. I have as much right to post my opinion on here, as you do yours. But calling people idiotic or stupid for sharing their opinion on a topic where there is clearly two sides to the issue is to say, a bit classless on your part. My opinion has just as much merit as yours. You may not like it, and that's cool with me, because I don't like your point of veiw either, but I at least respect it.

[DawgieStyle]

So Dawgie, when I was younger I idolized police officers, firefighters, and soldiers. I also know many young children who to the same. Are you saying that all of these people should have to graduate college as well?

You do make a good point on how they are role models. But if you make the point for them, I don't think you can logically not make the point for these others.


I agree, fire fighters, police officers, soldiers etc. don't attend college for the their trades, but they do attend basic training, academy's, and technical schools to learn their trade and craft. It's not college, but it is schooling and training needed to perform their job well. Pro athletes should have training and schooling as well, and college is the most logical place for them to do that. High school in my opinion is simply not enough training to be a pro athlete, again just my opion. Baseball at least has the minor leagues, and no the NBDL is not even close to the minor league baseball in terms of preparation. The one sport where college truly is used as the training grounds for their athlete is the NFL, they do have an age restriction, and it just so happens that the NFL is by far the best pro league today. Hands down. Coincidence? I don't think so.

[redbirdtim]

But Dawgie,

If you call for age limits in the NBA, you have to call for age limits in MLB-no more highschoolers, NASCAR, Golf, Tennis, etc. You also have to call for them in other leagues not just the pros. Also, there is a difference between 4 years of college and basic training. Why not just put the incoming high schoolers through a 6-8 week training course. If basic training is good enough for you for the military, you should support a 6-8 week training program for athletes.

Another thing Dawgie, and this is a question, not an attack on you, but don't you think we would then have to regulate colleges more to make sure that athletes are being treated equally to other students and not given special privileges. Say someone of Lebron's talent has to go to college. There would unfortunately be a lot of schools who would snap him up and give him as close to a free pass as possible toward a degree. How would we watch that closely?

As for the NFL, yes they do have an age barrier, but there are other professional football leagues as well that don't have them. In addition, that is the NFLs choice to have one.

Sorry man, I know your intentions are meant well and you do make some points that I would agree with if I was not a supporter of freedom of choice and the American way.

[DawgieStyle]

But Dawgie,

If you call for age limits in the NBA, you have to call for age limits in MLB-no more highschoolers, NASCAR, Golf, Tennis, etc. You also have to call for them in other leagues not just the pros. Also, there is a difference between 4 years of college and basic training. Why not just put the incoming high schoolers through a 6-8 week training course. If basic training is good enough for you for the military, you should support a 6-8 week training program for athletes.

Another thing Dawgie, and this is a question, not an attack on you, but don't you think we would then have to regulate colleges more to make sure that athletes are being treated equally to other students and not given special privileges. Say someone of Lebron's talent has to go to college. There would unfortunately be a lot of schools who would snap him up and give him as close to a free pass as possible toward a degree. How would we watch that closely?

As for the NFL, yes they do have an age barrier, but there are other professional football leagues as well that don't have them. In addition, that is the NFLs choice to have one.

Sorry man, I know your intentions are meant well and you do make some points that I would agree with if I was not a supporter of freedom of choice and the American way.


Re-read my post. I do call for an age limit in all professional athletics, that is my position, all of them.

Basic training may only be 6-8 weeks or however short it is, but thats not the end of their training. I don't know the whole military thing very well, but I know after basic there is AIT, active duty for some sort of time frame, and then once a month each month. I'm sure there is more I'm missing about all of that, I just don't know much about it.

I totally think all colleges, even today, need to be regulated more to insure that athletes aren't getting special priveleges. Why does an athlete get a free pass in college for playing a game? They shouldn't. Part of the "Training" for professional athletics should be the mental and academic side of it as well, and being able to follow the rules of the institution, because they will also have to be able to follow the rules of which ever pro team they play for.

Being in professional sports today is alot more than how well you can shoot a J, or run for a touchdown. There is a whole new financial and public relations side to it now due to the medias intense coverage. Having some type of schooling or training needs to be a requirement in order to understand that side of the coin in pro sports, and that is something many and most people won't or can't learn on their own.

[ColdHardFacts]

Just my opinion, but I'd say he better go now.

I've seen that in 2007 4 of the first 5 picks are projected to be highschool players, and 7 of the first 15 are either highscool or foreign players. In 2006 there are 0 highschool players projected to go in the top 15 and only 1 foreign player.

Staying another year is NO guarantee that you will move up the draft board!

If he were picked up 15th he would get a 3 year guaranteed contract with a 4th year option the team could pick up for a 50%+ increase.

2005-06 rookie pay scale pick 15 -

Yr1 - $1,217,800 Yr2- $1,309,100 Yr3 - $1,400,500 Yr4 option - 53.3%


What if he were to get injured next year? Is there anywhere you can purchase insurance in case of injury? If so, can he afford it right now?

There are too many variables outside of his control (injury, bad year, good year but pushed down the board by highschool and overseas players, etc) to justify turning down $1.3M in order to get $1.9M or something like that.

[DoubleJayAlum]

Re-read my post. I do call for an age limit in all professional athletics, that is my position, all of them.

Basic training may only be 6-8 weeks or however short it is, but thats not the end of their training. I don't know the whole military thing very well, but I know after basic there is AIT, active duty for some sort of time frame, and then once a month each month. I'm sure there is more I'm missing about all of that, I just don't know much about it.

I totally think all colleges, even today, need to be regulated more to insure that athletes aren't getting special priveleges. Why does an athlete get a free pass in college for playing a game? They shouldn't. Part of the "Training" for professional athletics should be the mental and academic side of it as well, and being able to follow the rules of the institution, because they will also have to be able to follow the rules of which ever pro team they play for.

Being in professional sports today is alot more than how well you can shoot a J, or run for a touchdown. There is a whole new financial and public relations side to it now due to the medias intense coverage. Having some type of schooling or training needs to be a requirement in order to understand that side of the coin in pro sports, and that is something many and most people won't or can't learn on their own.

Have you considered the possibility that there may actually be kids who are not smart enough to handle college? What about them? We don't let them play professional sports just because they didn't complete college or some training program, even though they have the God given ability to do the job? Sounds discriminatory to me. In fact, it seems to be punishment for having the skills necessary to play sports, but not the intellect to complete college.

The American dream is based upon the premise of hard work. Hard work, in my eyes, may include, but does not have to include post high school education. Instead someone can work hard honing the skills necessary to play professional sports, frame houses, run a daycare, be a meatpacker, etc. all without attending college. Does that mean that because they choose those jobs (or others) they are not valuable to society? As the saying goes, the world can always use more ditch diggers....

[SiuCubFan8]

Just my opinion, but I'd say he better go now.

I've seen that in 2007 4 of the first 5 picks are projected to be highschool players, and 7 of the first 15 are either highscool or foreign players. In 2006 there are 0 highschool players projected to go in the top 15 and only 1 foreign player.

Staying another year is NO guarantee that you will move up the draft board!

If he were picked up 15th he would get a 3 year guaranteed contract with a 4th year option the team could pick up for a 50%+ increase.

2005-06 rookie pay scale pick 15 -

Yr1 - $1,217,800 Yr2- $1,309,100 Yr3 - $1,400,500 Yr4 option - 53.3%


What if he were to get injured next year? Is there anywhere you can purchase insurance in case of injury? If so, can he afford it right now?

There are too many variables outside of his control (injury, bad year, good year but pushed down the board by highschool and overseas players, etc) to justify turning down $1.3M in order to get $1.9M or something like that.

In 2007 4 of the top 5 are High Schoolers????
What draft site are you looking at? You might want to tell them high school seniors are now not allowed to enter the draft.

[DawgieStyle]

all of the jobs you have mentioned require training in addition to a HS education. You can't be a carpenter without training. You can't be a mason with an apprenticeship! I don't care if your engineering rockets or working at mcdonalds, you recieve training, and depending upon the type of job or skill, more or less training or education is required based on the difficulty. I'm simply advocating that professional athletes need more "training" , education, or whatever you want to call it than high school can provide. Some athletes may be physically ready, that I agree with, its their mental status at the age of 18 I question. I simply believe that college is the best place to recieve that training because they offer all of the athletic programs, facilities, sports trainers and guidance young atheletes need in one convinient one stop shop. Heck and while they are there, they might just pick up an education if god forbid they blow their knee out by the age of 24. The simple lesson here is that all jobs capable of providing an "above poverty" level of life require some type of training, tech school, college, apprentice ship, etc. and for the american athlete that should be no different. They simply aren't mentally mature enough at the age of 18 in my opinion to handle all that professional athletics will throw at them. If you are a proponent of higher education and believe in seeing our youth of America aspire to greater things then you will agree with me. If you are not a proponent of higher education and think that all you need today is a HS diploma to earn what it takes to raise a family (which its not) then you won't agree with me.

[TrueBlueJay]

If you are not a proponent of higher education and think that all you need today is a HS diploma to earn what it takes to raise a family (which its not) then you won't agree with me.

I'd say Mr. James would differ with you.

Dawgie - you're humping the wrong tree here. Just stop.

[DawgieStyle]

I've said my peice, more so than I intended to. Its a topic for discussion, and at least it was one that pertains to sports and more importantly NCAA basketball and POB and Bradley, rather than how big Koch and Hammons (spelling) wallets are.

[troutangler]

If you are a proponent of higher education and believe in seeing our youth of America aspire to greater things then you will agree with me. If you are not a proponent of higher education and think that all you need today is a HS diploma to earn what it takes to raise a family (which its not) then you won't agree with me.

This is where you're lost. Professional athletes make up a very, very small portion of people that hold jobs in America. What does a guy going to the NBA or MLB have to do with aspiring to do great things? By going pro without this "training" you speak of, they don't hurt anyone else.

As far as raising a family with just a high school education...

Carpenters, plumbers, etc. do this all the time. Their apprenticeships and training doesn't help them raise a family. It helps them on their work, but it doesn't help raise their family. Raising a family is about what kind of person you are and how you act around your family, not about what level of education you have.

You've lost this one. Your views are completely asanine.

[redbirdtim]

Bradley should hope he gets millions, then maybe they could solicit a nice donation from him to the program. After taxes, agent costs, money manager costs, living expenses, housing, etc., it isn't a super huge amount where he could give a huge donation...but he is one year closer to getting another contract should he stick around. I wonder how much Korver has sent back to CU.

[DawgieStyle]

again trout angler with the jabs and attacks...assanine and idiotic? Dude, chill. My views are not idiotic or asanine, simply different than yours, I'm sorry you take offense to my point of view, but certainly no offense was intended. Again, you may not like my opinion, thats fine, but when it's based with rationale, existing scholary debate from experts, and supported by millions of other people in this world, the least you could is respect it. You don't have to like it, and you certainly don't have to agree, but at least attempt to understand it.

[DawgieStyle]

This is where you're lost. Professional athletes make up a very, very small portion of people that hold jobs in America. What does a guy going to the NBA or MLB have to do with aspiring to do great things? By going pro without this "training" you speak of, they don't hurt anyone else.

As far as raising a family with just a high school education...

Carpenters, plumbers, etc. do this all the time. Their apprenticeships and training doesn't help them raise a family. It helps them on their work, but it doesn't help raise their family. Raising a family is about what kind of person you are and how you act around your family, not about what level of education you have.

You've lost this one. Your views are completely asanine.

Warning: going off topic...

sigghh...yes raising a family is all about what type of person you are, agreed. But it also takes MONEY! to raise a family as well. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that college graduates earn more money than those with out one. Now then. I'm not saying you have to have money to be happy, you don't, and I'm not saying you have to have a college education to be respected or a hardworker or a hero. You can accomplish pretty much anything you put your mind to in this life. And I respect the hell out of Construction workers, Fireman, Police officers, Waiters, Mechanics etc. etc. They work really hard for their money at really hard and ungreatful jobs. The fact of the matter is they make up most of the work force, and I can't thank those people enough for what they do, and also realize with out those people and jobs our way of life as Americans would basically suck.

BUT! as a parent or future parents, we realize all of those jobs are either, hard, dirty and/or dangerous. I know I wouldn't want my future children to have pursue any of those jobs if he or she didn't have to. We've all been talking about the american dream on this topic, but another part of the American dream has always been to set up our children for a better life than what we had, and a college education is as close to a guaruntee on that as your going to get.

Troutangler:
Knowing that a college education provides people with better earning capabilities, a more rounded background, social skills, more fulfilling and safe careers, and a less dangerous work environment, to me it would make sense as a parent or future parent to embrace higher education more so than it seems you do. Yes, who you are can shape what your family will be, but the promotion of a higher education can guaruntee your children a better life than yours. I can only hope you are doing that, or will do that in your family, but from your post, It seems to me as though you don't hold a college education in high regards.

I realize not everyone is cut out for college, but i think its the responsibility of parents to raise and push our kids towards such a goal if at all possible. At least give them the oppurtunity to succeed.

Again, sorry for going off topic, I felt responsible to respond.

[troutangler]

Warning: going off topic...
Troutangler:
Knowing that a college education provides people with better earning capabilities, a more rounded background, social skills, more fulfilling and safe careers, and a less dangerous work environment, to me it would make sense as a parent or future parent to embrace higher education more so than it seems you do. Yes, who you are can shape what your family will be, but the promotion of a higher education can guaruntee your children a better life than yours. I can only hope you are doing that, or will do that in your family, but from your post, It seems to me as though you don't hold a college education in high regards.

I realize not everyone is cut out for college, but i think its the responsibility of parents to raise and push our kids towards such a goal if at all possible. At least give them the oppurtunity to succeed.

Again, sorry for going off topic, I felt responsible to respond.

Okay, here's the deal...

I get exactly where you're coming from, and I see your opinion. In 99% of the world, you are spot on. In any aspect of life except pro sports, I could not agree with you more. You just have to separate pro sports from the rest of the world/workforce. They aren't the same at all. Not even close. To use a worn out cliche, it's like comparing apples to oranges. A very, very miniscule portion of people in America (or the world for that matter) get the chance to play professionally in anything. This is the reason I say POB or any other player should take the money when they get the chance, because the chance may never present itself again. A guy I know was drafted in the MLB draft out of high school in the fourth round. If he makes the big show someday and makes millions, he is set for life with a high school education. If he doesn't, the team will pay for his college when he's done with baseball. Broken down into the simplest terms possible, my point is that pro sports are completely different than the rest of the world. To try and hold them to the same standards is wrong in my opinion.

I agree with you that college can make people more well rounded, improve social skills, etc etc. Your thoughts about higher education in general are correct in all aspects. To correct your assumption, I do hold a college education in high regards since I'll be an alumni of MSU in about three weeks or so.:grin: You're right that anyone who can improve things for themselves or their family should do so if possible, it's just that for some people (pro athletes, because they're going to make enough money to provide for their families) it isn't necessary because of what they do.

Sorry for the long-winded post. I apologize for the jabs at you personally, but I hope you get where I'm coming from here.

:bears: :valley:

[Hein72]

With out wasting my time reading through all of this junk, is he gone or not? Is it a done deal?

[Majik45]

With out wasting my time reading through all of this junk, is he gone or not? Is it a done deal?

He's declared for the draft, but has not hired an agent so there is still a possibility that he could come back. He has until like June 18th to pull his name out of the draft. My guess is that he is probably gone at this point unless he has some bad workouts with teams or does poorly at the pre-draft camps.

[mtrain4]

http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/story/5566904?GT1=8192

Currently have POB listed as a #12 pick to the Hornets in this early mock draft.

[underdawg2]

He's declared for the draft, but has not hired an agent so there is still a possibility that he could come back. He has until like June 18th to pull his name out of the draft. My guess is that he is probably gone at this point unless he has some bad workouts with teams or does poorly at the pre-draft camps.


IMO he should say, "I'm not coming /or am not coming back--- now. If I was Les , I'd be peeved that he's screwing recruiting by holding up a scholie for a month. With the injury problems to Sam Singh aren't you guys going to be up the creek without a center if POB says syanora???

[kyyle23]

Being an avid Bulls fan(and really dissapointed one as of right now), it is strange to me to go to talkbulls.com and see posters that I regularly converse with talk about drafting POB. Not that I think he is bad, because i dont. Its just wierd to hear NBA fans talking about drafting a valley guy.

I dont think POB goes after the 1st round, I think he is a gauranteed mid to late first rounder, and that means(to me) that he is saying sayonara to Bradley.