Do some Missouri State fans have unrealistic expectations on a yearly basis?

[cpacmel]

I am curious, does anyone think that Bears fans have unrealistic expectations about their men's basketball team on a yearly basis?

Answer by what you have seen here, or other places, or by what you have heard in person.

[gosmsgo]

we used to make the tournament somewhat reguarly. Now we havent and see no reason why we should. We are stuck with a coach too bad to get another job and just good enough to keep us in the nit every year.

[Mikovio]

I don't think so. 7 years with no NCAA, no league titles won't sit well with any Valley school's fan base. Jim Molinari was fired one year removed from a 2nd-place finish (both regular season and conference tourney), and he had an NCAA appearance and league title to show for his tenure.

I think it's natural for expectations to rise the longer they go unmet (ie, 6 years of no NCAAs has to be immediately followed up by league title, NCAA run in order to make it 'worth the wait'). Which explains why from my indications Bears fans are placing so much importance on the next season....

[troutangler]

I voted no, that we don't have unrealistic expectations.

I have a question for the people who think we do in fact have unrealistic expectations: What do you think our expectations are?

Here are mine:

-Finish in the top three or four a majority of the time in the Valley. (At least puts you in a position to get an NCAA bid)

-NCAA tournament at least every three years. (I expected Barry to have been at least twice by now)

-NIT in the years we don't make the NCAAs. (We've made three in seven years)

-Don't lose conference games at home that you could have and should have won. (WSU/UNI this year)

-Win close games. (Barry's winning percentage in games decided by less than 10 points is still just below 40% I believe)

[redbirdtim]

Win every conference game you 'should have won' at home...interesting, I think most teams try to do that. As for making the postseason every year...I don't think any Valley team can say that should happen every single year because of the stength of a lot of Valley teams. The Valley has been very cyclical. It will be interesting to see what teams shoot up, which teams stay up, and which teams fall down.

[TNMSUFAN]

These days making post season play, either NIT or NCAA, makes you around a top 100 program which should be everyone's expectations. I think some Bear's fans are over the top but most that post on here or letsgobears just want what trout posted.

[Mikovio]

I don't think any Valley team can say that should happen every single year because of the stength of a lot of Valley teams.

I think Creighton fans could probably say that.

I also disagree with your reasoning. The strength of the Valley isn't keeping anybody out of the postseason. It's in fact creating more postseason spots - all you had to do to make the postseason this year was finish in the top 6....

[brokeback shocker]

we used to make the tournament somewhat reguarly. Now we havent and see no reason why we should. We are stuck with a coach too bad to get another job and just good enough to keep us in the nit every year.

You made the tourney regularly? SMS/MSU has been to the tourney twice since you joined the MVC in 1992 and 1999.

SMS/MSU made the tourney a lot when you were the cream of the crop in a crap conference. (87,88,89,90) The competition in the MVC is obvioulsy tougher than the JV league you were in.

[troutangler]

Right now, by about a 2-1 margin, ValleyTalkers say we have unrealistic expectations.

We've still yet to see what YOU ALL think these expectations are. Do you think my expectations are too high? Do you think that we think we should be in the Sweet 16 every year?

Don't just vote, post what you think.

[cpacmel]

Right now, by about a 2-1 margin, ValleyTalkers say we have unrealistic expectations.

We've still yet to see what YOU ALL think these expectations are. Do you think my expectations are too high? Do you think that we think we should be in the Sweet 16 every year?

Don't just vote, post what you think.

Is this kind of like the President Candidate that loses and demands "60% of you didn't vote for me, I demand you tell me why!"

The people have spoken.

:banana:

[Nyghtewynd]

Of *course* most of this board thinks that we have unrealistic expectations. They like MSU to be right where they've been in conference for the Hinson Era--an also-ran.

[troutangler]

Is this kind of like the President Candidate that loses and demands "60% of you didn't vote for me, I demand you tell me why!"

The people have spoken.

:banana:

A basketball discussion forum is a bit different than an election.

Nyght is right though. The rest of you guys think we're okay right where we're at. No need for anyone else to rise up and do well.

EDIT: Okay, if you don't want to tell me what you think our expectations are, tell me what is unrealistic about my expectations that I posted. Don't the rest of you want just about the same things for your teams, if not better? Why does it make us unreasonable to want the same?

List the expectations for YOUR team too.

[SubGod22]

Because you're Mizzery State :grin:

[Coasterbill42]

Because you're Mizzery State :grin:
Leave it to the shucker fan to be the a*hole.

[DawgieStyle]

This whole expectations thing is kind of funny. I don't think you can place a set standard of expectations for a team. Teams change from year to year, heck they change during the season due to injuries and other unforseen things. I think new expectations need to be re-evaluated at the end and beginning of each season.

Example: Bradley, their fans expectations should have been sky high at the beginnig of last season with POB and Summerville and that talent coming back. And it was sky high. Then as the season progressed, POB got suspended, Bradley fans needed to re-evaluate their expectations for their team, and to a degree I think they did. Now this season comes along..POB is going pro....that drastically changes the expectations for Bradley fans, or it should change from winning the MVC with POB to hopfully playing .500 ball with out POB.

In Misery states case I don't know if its a case of expectation being too high, but simply not re-evaluating from season to season what the expectations should be for that particular team. This season I don't think MSU fans should expect a valley championship with the players SIU and Creighton have coming back, but that's this year. Although it didn't play out this way last year, I wouldn't have expected MSU to win last year based on preseason evaluations of No. IA. Again I don't think the problem lies in that MSU expects too much of their teams, I think they raise expectations with out doing their research first.

[troutangler]

This whole expectations thing is kind of funny. I don't think you can place a set standard of expectations for a team. Teams change from year to year, heck they change during the season due to injuries and other unforseen things. I think new expectations need to be re-evaluated at the end and beginning of each season.

Example: Bradley, their fans expectations should have been sky high at the beginnig of last season with POB and Summerville and that talent coming back. And it was sky high. Then as the season progressed, POB got suspended, Bradley fans needed to re-evaluate their expectations for their team, and to a degree I think they did. Now this season comes along..POB is going pro....that drastically changes the expectations for Bradley fans, or it should change from winning the MVC with POB to hopfully playing .500 ball with out POB.

In Misery states case I don't know if its a case of expectation being too high, but simply not re-evaluating from season to season what the expectations should be for that particular team. This season I don't think MSU fans should expect a valley championship with the players SIU and Creighton have coming back, but that's this year. Although it didn't play out this way last year, I wouldn't have expected MSU to win last year based on preseason evaluations of No. IA. Again I don't think the problem lies in that MSU expects too much of their teams, I think they raise expectations with out doing their research first.

What "research" do we need to do? We've watched our team for years now. We can see whats going on without doing much research.

There is no reason we shouldn't expect the same as everyone else.

[SubGod22]

Apparently Coaster has no sense of humor and can't take a joke. Too bad

[DawgieStyle]

What "research" do we need to do? We've watched our team for years now. We can see whats going on without doing much research.

There is no reason we shouldn't expect the same as everyone else.


You're probably right on the research part, it is your team, and you know best. But the problem is, you aren't expecting the same as everyone else. There was no way last year, even as a rabid SIU fan, that I was expecting SIU to win the valley. In fact I didn't even expect them to make the NCAA tourney at the BEGINNING of last season. I'm glad I was wrong, thats what makes me a fan, but I was also being realistic in not expecting SIU to win the Valley. Based on the poll 57% of people believe Bear fans expect too much of their team. You aren't being REALISTIC. You can't expect MSU to win the valley every year, especially when Creighton, SIU, and now Wichita are established power players each year. It's an unrealistic expectation. Yes, Bear fans are the authority on their team and their research, it just seems to me you need to do a better job analyzing it.

[MSU Bleeds Maroon]

The people have spoken.



Yes, they have.

MSU is one of ten Valley schools. MSU fans might make up 15% of the ValleyTalk community. Consequently, a blatantly biased poll question like this should see something close to an 85% vote on the anti-MSU side. But among the 85% non-MSU majority, a significant percentage feel that MSU fans are not harboring unrealistic expectations.

You tried to set up a rigged vote, and is hasn't come out as one-sided as you hoped. Nice job, mendicant. Enjoy your dancing fruit.

[valleyclimber]

well then...the blatantly biased poll people have spoken....MSU does indeed have mildly unrealistic expectations:yes:

[cpacmel]

MSU Bleeds Maroon:

I know, the truth hurts.

Hang in there.

Your Valley Friend,

Cpacmel
:banana:

[Aargh]

MSU fans think Hinson is a good to great recruiter - then they expect an NCAA appearance every 3 or 4 years based on the recruits Barry brought in.

I have a skewed viewpoint of MSU's players because my evaluation of MSU's players is influenced more by what MSU does against WSU more than by what those players do the rest of the season.

I don't think Hinson is a great recruiter.

Perhaps too many MSU fans believe the press clippings and that raises their expectations above where they should be. Hinson has been improving MSU's teams, but generally not at the same pace as other Valley teams have been improving.

MSU appears to have a year or 2 coming up that should be potential NCAA years. It's still going to be hard to expect MSU to finish in the top 3 in the Valley in the next several years. There are some very good teams shaping up in the Valley.

In the years that Hinson has been at MSU, it's been mostly SIU and CU at the top of the Valley. Those teams are showing no signs of that changing. WSU appears to be making a claim to be up there with them and has surpassed MSU for 3 or 4 years.

It's not unreasonable to think that the Valley will have 3 teams in the top-25 or "Others receiving votes" categories most of next year. A top-3 finish in the league or the automatic invite is about a requirement for making the NCAA's. Do MSU fans expect a top-30 or top-40 type team next year? That's "unrealistic". It might happen, but expecting it now is "unrealisic".

If MSU was the "best team left out of the NCAA's in 2006", then you'd have to expect MSU to make a major run in the NIT. That didn't happen.

Barry is pretty much scr3w3ed. The teams above MSU in the Valley are getting some great rucruits based on their consistency and post-seasons. The teams below MSU are getting great recruits based on the availability of playing time in a hot conference. Barry can't offer either of those.

[MSU Bleeds Maroon]

MSU Bleeds Maroon:

I know, the truth hurts.



The truth does indeed hurt.

The truth is, you have yet to substantiate your ridiculous claim that "some (plural) MSU fans" expect (present tense) to go to "the Sweet Sixteen or better" every year.

The truth is, the word "unrealistic" is meaningless without context, and any poll containing that word is also meaningless.

The truth is, neither you nor any other non-MSU fan have yet to offer a single counter-argument; a single statement of what "realistic MSU expectations" ought to be.

The truth is, you're trolling. You have no intention of engaging in a rational debate, and that's becoming clearer with every asinine post you make.

Congratulations. You suckered me in. But the truth is, I'm done with you until you can offer up something more than rumors and gossip.

[troutangler]

If MSU was the "best team left out of the NCAA's in 2006", then you'd have to expect MSU to make a major run in the NIT. That didn't happen.


I actually agree with a lot of your post, except for this part.

When WSU won two games in the NIT last year (I'm pretty sure it was two), it was a great accomplishment according to their fans. Now that MSU did it this year, it's not a major run? We were one of the eight teams left in the NIT, and while it's something I'm not that proud of considering where we should have and could have been, it compares to what other Valley teams have done recently.

[azbirdfan]

trolling? I thought this was "Valleytalk", not the MSU private message board site! Based on results, 60% of the posters believe MSU has unrealistic expectations so I'm not sure where you come across saying mel is off base.

We're talking about other people's perception of MSU fans which is what this poll is about. I've had my own experiences of MSU fans and I'm not sitting here saying that all are like that but the few who are certainly stand out in my mind.

[cpacmel]

The truth is, you're trolling. You have no intention of engaging in a rational debate, and that's becoming clearer with every asinine post you make..

I would be trolling if I took this to letsgobears.com. Everyone here knows my allegiance is to ILLINOIS State. But most everyone knows I love the Valley too. Heck I signed that last post:

Your Valley Friend! :phone1:




Congratulations. You suckered me in. But the truth is, I'm done with you until you can offer up something more than rumors and gossip


NO LINK = NOT TRUE. I love it! :lamo:

[BearsCountry]

I dont think they are unrealistic at all. Crap we were basically a dunk by Falker and a large second half lead blown at home against the Shox from being Valley champs this year. Didnt have a major run at the NIT? Come on, we made it to the elite eight of it. Honestly how many teams go into Freedom Hall and knock off Louisville?

And everybody thinks Wichita State is the sleeping giant? Crap, if the Bears could every get it right it could be seeing something very special.

[iSASO]

"Getting it right" includes cashing in on the success you have, when you have it.

WSU is proving its case to be a sleeping giant because they kept their coach and appear to be building on their Sweet 16 run. MSU did not. That's called a "flash in the pan". You had the same chance and couldn't capitalize.

MSU may not have the fan support infrastructure to do something special until they get out of the Saddam Student Center. Then, in the new place, we may see the same problem the baseball program has seen with its new place - great crowds until the newness wears off - then you have to go back to putting a great product on the floor, which puts you back to where you are now.

[engrshock]

Every schools fans want their team to win the league each year and make the tournament. Every fan wants their team to compete in the league they are in.
Expectations are one thing. Reality is another. In reality, only one team
(sometimes more with ties) wins the league and only one team wins the tournament championship and their will be some teams (probably half of the teams) that struggle not to make the play-in round. I am not sure what realistic expectations by fans even are or should be except based upon past experience. Perhaps an example would be the KC Royals. As a fan I want them to be able to make the post season every year. However, this year I hoped for good improvement this year to maybe a .500 record and expected them to not lose 100 games again. Not sure that expectation was too good right now.

[Canevision]

You're probably right on the research part, it is your team, and you know best. But the problem is, you aren't expecting the same as everyone else. There was no way last year, even as a rabid SIU fan, that I was expecting SIU to win the valley. In fact I didn't even expect them to make the NCAA tourney at the BEGINNING of last season. I'm glad I was wrong, thats what makes me a fan, but I was also being realistic in not expecting SIU to win the Valley. Based on the poll 57% of people believe Bear fans expect too much of their team. You aren't being REALISTIC. You can't expect MSU to win the valley every year, especially when Creighton, SIU, and now Wichita are established power players each year. It's an unrealistic expectation. Yes, Bear fans are the authority on their team and their research, it just seems to me you need to do a better job analyzing it.

I guess I can't realistically expect MSU to hold a 15 pt lead and 13pt halftime lead to tie for the conference championship. Yeah, that would be way out of whack.

How about holding a second half lead with less than 30 seconds left against SIU. Do those two things and MSU DOES win the conference last year. Beat a Creighton team they'd already handled twice in the regular season the year before and you go to the dance. Don't try and dunk the ball 10 times against UNI in regulation, you go dancing the year before that. It goes on and on...

I certainly don't think those expectations are out of whack at all. I would think NOT expecting one of these things to happen would be out of whack.

The Bears should have expectations for post season every single year. I don't think they actually WILL make the postseason every year, but if they don't, it would be my position that is a disappointing year.

[Canevision]

"Getting it right" includes cashing in on the success you have, when you have it.

WSU is proving its case to be a sleeping giant because they kept their coach and appear to be building on their Sweet 16 run. MSU did not. That's called a "flash in the pan". You had the same chance and couldn't capitalize.

MSU may not have the fan support infrastructure to do something special until they get out of the Saddam Student Center. Then, in the new place, we may see the same problem the baseball program has seen with its new place - great crowds until the newness wears off - then you have to go back to putting a great product on the floor, which puts you back to where you are now.

WSU hasn't proven a thing off of their success. Let's not forget, a history of choking has been your recent past far more than a run of NCAA success.

Don't throw stones when you live in a glass house my friend. You're going to have to actually DO something first.

[MikeKennedyRulz]

WSU hasn't proven a thing off of their success. Let's not forget, a history of choking has been your recent past far more than a run of NCAA success.

Don't throw stones when you live in a glass house my friend. You're going to have to actually DO something first.

An MSU fan talking smack on WSU and choking. Priceless. I think this has been the most I have laughed at posts on VT in a LONG time.

[Canevision]

An MSU fan talking smack on WSU and choking. Priceless. I think this has been the most I have laughed at posts on VT in a LONG time.

How was it talking smack from MSU standpoint? It was saying WSU hasn't earned the right to talk smack any more than MSU has. MSU has done squat in the last several years and I'll be the first to tell you that.

Why does it seem that EVERY WSU fan just wants to argue?

[iSASO]

It was saying WSU hasn't earned the right to talk smack any more than MSU has.

So, WSU and MSU have accomplished the same amount of nothingness? You really think that?

Hint: Check my avatar, then re-read your statement. Then tell me this: Why isn't Blake Ahearn on this cover instead of a WSU player? What did WSU do to deserve this over MSU? I can't think of a thing, can you?
http://usera.imagecave.com/JH4P/wichita1.state_0327.jpg

[Canevision]

So, WSU and MSU have accomplished the same amount of nothingness? You really think that?

Hint: Check my avatar, then re-read your statement. Then tell me this: Why isn't Blake Ahearn on this cover instead of a WSU player? What did WSU do to deserve this over MSU? I can't think of a thing, can you?
http://usera.imagecave.com/JH4P/wichita1.state_0327.jpg

You've been to 1 Sweet Sixteen just like the Bears have in the past decade. Your poster was what I responded to, not just random smack. He talked crap about the Bears after their Sweet Sixteen run and said they did nothing with it. Last time I checked WSU hasn't either. That's an ignorant statement to make when your team hasn't done anything either.

Shock fan, don't try and turn this around, I responded to your guys comments, not making new ones.

[A Bad Bear Fan]

You have to remember that we have only been division 1 for about 25 years. We have seen nothing but success. Our expectations are high every year because this program has done nothing buy succeed. Look at how many times our program has finished in the bottom half of the conference. Look at the fact that all of our sports programs have done something on the national level.

Our expectations are right on PAR for a program that was built from the ground up. We are proud of our Bears and expect nothing but a champion. I have never been disapointed with our teams. But I will admit to wanting more and thinking about being more because that has always been and always will be our mindset. Also remember this. We were the first Valley team to make a Sweet Sixteen run, and don't for a minute think we didn't help the Valley become what it is today. :bears:

[iSASO]

MSU couldn't keep its coach after its Sweet 16 run.
WSU kept theirs.

WSU - 1
MSU - 0

That's what I'm talkin' about.

I might even give an early bonus point for the hiring of Spinelli, that would make it 2-zip WSU.

[iSASO]

[/QUOTE=We were the first Valley team to make a Sweet Sixteen run, and don't for a minute think we didn't help the Valley become what it is today. :bears:[/QUOTE]


The first to make a Sweet 16 run???????????

[Tasmanian Devil]

We were the first Valley team to make a Sweet Sixteen run, and don't for a minute think we didn't help the Valley become what it is today. :bears:

LMAO!

[MSU Bleeds Maroon]

We were the first Valley team to make a Sweet Sixteen run, and don't for a minute think we didn't help the Valley become what it is today. :bears:

Oh.

Dear.

God.

Please, please, PLEASE tell me you're not that stupid. PLEASE tell me you're a fan of a different school goofing on a throwaway screen name.

Because if you are an MSU fan, and you actually meant this... you suck. You should be horsewhipped and dragged naked through the residence halls, where all of the female students can point and giggle at your miniscule naughty bits.

If your next post is not an apology, and a promise to learn about the history of The Valley, then you should be banned. The only cure for ignorance is education; and if you shun it, you can go be ignorant elsewhere.

:banghead: :doh: :cursing:

[da_bears]

Actually MSU was the first valley school to go to the sweet sixteen from the field of 64. MSU was the first valley school to go to the sweet sixteen since they joined the conference.

It had been 18 years since WSU went to the round of 16 (only a 40 teams then) and 20 years since larry legend did his thing, that stuff is ancient history. So yes, MSU did play a part in the recent upswing of the valley, as well as SIU going to the 2002? sweet sixteen.

[iSASO]

You have to do some pretty creative slicing and dicing to make MSU's run sound like the MVC's first one. How about this one:

First Sweet Sixteen run since the conference was founded in 1990.

Or maybe this to add some prestige to it?

First Sweet Sixteen since, since, since...well, the previous team did it.

MSU: Glorious torch-bearer of the MVC for one week in March, 1999. Crap ever since.

[MSU Bleeds Maroon]

Actually MSU was the first valley school to go to the sweet sixteen from the field of 64. MSU was the first valley school to go to the sweet sixteen since they joined the conference.



Wrong. And wrong again.

For proof of how wrong you are, please search Actual Basketball History with the following keywords: Tulsa, Tubby Smith, 1994, 1995.

:bash:

[iSASO]

Facts are overrated. Apparently it's more fun to make stuff up in order to boost your self-esteem.

Speaking of historical MVC facts for "first-time" events, WSU became the first MVC school to win 6 conference championships in a school year since men's and women's sports were combined under the MVC umbrella.

[outpost]

Happen to be listening to the MSU version of archived WSU@MSU basketball game at the moment (what a joyous moment for Bear fans, albeit temporary). Just got to the halftime speech given by Terry Allen.

Let me remind Bears fans of some of the highlights of his "speech".....

"First, we've gotta bring Wichita State out here for the second half and keep kickin' their tail.......

Second, we've gotta all get on board with Coach Hinson and the basketball program......everyone get to St. Louis and support this team so that they can get into the 'real' tournament."

[MSU Bleeds Maroon]

Happen to be listening to the MSU version of archived WSU@MSU basketball game at the moment (what a joyous moment for Bear fans, albeit temporary). Just got to the halftime speech given by Terry Allen.

Let me remind Bears fans of some of the highlights of his "speech".....

"First, we've gotta bring Wichita State out here for the second half and keep kickin' their tail.......

Second, we've gotta all get on board with Coach Hinson and the basketball program......everyone get to St. Louis and support this team so that they can get into the 'real' tournament."

Obviously, Terry Allen knows as much about basketball as OGU knows about football.

[bberilam]

Ahh those were the good days before the second half implosion, numerous recruits not coming our way, and the ultimate NCAA snub.