Valley contract with ESPN next year...

[STLRedbird]

... what will happen?

[C0|db|00ded]

A little better...


T


...:cool:

[STLRedbird]

I agree coldblooded. It'll get a little better next year. Let's say the league stays in the 6-8 range overall. How long 'til we get a game of the week?

[redbirdtim]

If ESPN were smart, they would realize that the Valley is on the up-and-up and try to lock in some games. The conference office should try and get some games on other stations, like CBS, if ESPN is going to do squat for us. Fox Sports Net/Comcast do broadcast a lot of our games, but their exposure isn't as much an ESPN. It would be a travesty if after all of our success, we didn't get a few mores games...however, we have to show we can draw some ratings.

One thing I do not like is turning on the tube and always seeing Colorado St., Utah (they did have a Final 4 a few years back and the Bogut year), UTEP, etc. on ESPN. I know they play late night games, but I would like to see some Valley action, even if it is on at 9 or 10 pm. I'm sure some Valley teams wouldn't mind a little bit later start, especially over Christmas break, if it meant getting some time on ESPN.

[STLRedbird]

If only it were just about the quality of the basketball. :no: Biggest MSA in the league is Omaha at 800K. Too many markets like B-N or we'd already have a game of the week.

[WSUfan]

If only it were just about the quality of the basketball. :no: Biggest MSA in the league is Omaha at 800K. Too many markets like B-N or we'd already have a game of the week.

Television market size is probably more important than MSA. :grin:
Nielsen Media Research Local Universe Estimates* (US)
*Estimates used throughout the 2005-2006 television season which starts on September 24, 2005
RANK Designated Market Area (DMA) TV Homes % of US
67 Wichita-Hutchinson Plus 446,820 0.405
75 Omaha 399,830 0.363
http://www.nielsenmedia.com/DMAs.html

[cpacmel]

We have aligned ourselves with FoxSports. ESPN won't do us any favors. :no:

[MSNSaluki]

Television market size is probably more important than MSA. :grin:
Nielsen Media Research Local Universe Estimates* (US)
*Estimates used throughout the 2005-2006 television season which starts on September 24, 2005
RANK Designated Market Area (DMA) TV Homes % of US
67 Wichita-Hutchinson Plus 446,820 0.405
75 Omaha 399,830 0.363
http://www.nielsenmedia.com/DMAs.html

christ, another area in which wichita trumps us all.

[Aargh]

The MVC got 4 NCAA bids. A big media discussion was whether MSU should have gotten in - for a 5th MVC bid.

Media reports everywhere are calling the MVC the "darling" of the media and the fans. The iron is hot for the Valley, but it's going to take keeping the iron hot to attract viewers outside the MVC area.

Both CU and WSU are potential pre-season top-25 picks. It's going to take a couple of years of multiple top-25 teams in the Valley and more teams than CU and SIU establishing themselves as perennial NCAA teams for the Valley to start getting regularly-scheduled feature ESPN games.

WSU vs. GMU is likely to get a major early-season ESPN feature. F4 vs. S16 early-season rematch. Usually that type of matchup is something like Boston Coll vs. UNC, or some other totally improbable pre-season game.

ESPN is likely to pull out everything they've got to promote a Bracket-Busters rematch between a S16 team and a F4 team. Bracket-Busters needs the promotion and ESPN has two poster-childs to validate participation in BB.

[WSUfan]

christ, another area in which wichita trumps us all.
:innocent: :grin:
:valley: :valley: :valley: :valley: :valley:

[shocker3]

Television market size is probably more important than MSA. :grin:
Nielsen Media Research Local Universe Estimates* (US)
*Estimates used throughout the 2005-2006 television season which starts on September 24, 2005
RANK Designated Market Area (DMA) TV Homes % of US
67 Wichita-Hutchinson Plus 446,820 0.405
75 Omaha 399,830 0.363
http://www.nielsenmedia.com/DMAs.html

Actually looking at the Nielsen numbers, we have four markets bunched up together:

Wichita 67
Des Moines 73
Omaha 75
Springfield 77

Then 3 more markets at 117 or better:

Waterloo-Cedar Falls etc. 88
Evansville- 100
Peoria/Bloomington- 117

And then there is Terre Haute and Where is Carbondale?

Terre Haute- 150

I don't know which market Carbondale is in, so I left them off.

-What surprised me most is how small the Peoria-Bloomington TV market is. We have two schools in that market with only 241,800 TV households in that market.

The total number of TV households in all of the Valley markets added up together is just 2,800,000. That is around 2.5% of the total USA TV market.

The Chicago Market alone is 3.5 million homes, 3.1 % .

St. Louis is 1.2 million, 1.1% and KC is .9 million, .82%.

So those three markets alone (Chicago, KC, STL) total 5.1 million homes and 5.1%.

If we can argue that those three markets are in "the Valley" viewing zone we greatly enhance our TV market to around 8 million homes. :valley:

[Mikovio]

-What surprised me most is how small the Peoria-Bloomington TV market is. We have two schools in that market with only 241,800 TV households in that market.

I think it's important here to distinguish between "TV markets" and the actual metropolitan areas of these cities.

Peoria TV stations (which do also cover Bloomington), for example, are all UHF. This is because the Quad Cities, which have VHF stations, are close enough to Peoria to prevent our stations from using the VHF spectrum. The overlap relegated the Peoria/Bloomington market to weaker signals.

Therefore, when you are citing the viability of "TV markets," you are in fact referencing the reach of our TV signals, which is significantly less than it is most anywhere else.

Here's my point: ESPN is a cable network. It's not seeking to broadcast its games over-the-air in Peoria and Bloomington, so the weakness of our TV signals should have little bearing on their decision. The size of the metro areas, regardless of the local TV stations' reach, is what is relevant to them. Or at least it should be.

And now you know.

[valleyclimber]

good point Mikovio! the metro area for Peoria is around 260,000 while Bloomington-Normal is around 155,000, so those two combined are at 415,000. With Valley teams playing at a top level now, the Chicago media market will be more and more interested in covering the MVC teams because BU, SIU and ISU make up some of the best DI b-ball the state of Illinois has to offer.

The St. Louis market should be a natural too because we hold our conference tourney there and hey we are the MISSOURI Valley Conference. When the MVC teams keep rolling over the next years, it will be interesting to watch our TV exposure continue to expand. :banana: :valley:

[MSNSaluki]

Carbondale is in the Buncombe/Zeigler/Gorham market.
SIU's TV market is pretty small because there's not enough aluminum foil to go around southern Illinois.

[WSUfan]

I think it's important here to distinguish between "TV markets" and the actual metropolitan areas of these cities.

Peoria TV stations (which do also cover Bloomington), for example, are all UHF. This is because the Quad Cities, which have VHF stations, are close enough to Peoria to prevent our stations from using the VHF spectrum. The overlap relegated the Peoria/Bloomington market to weaker signals.

Therefore, when you are citing the viability of "TV markets," you are in fact referencing the reach of our TV signals, which is significantly less than it is most anywhere else.

Here's my point: ESPN is a cable network. It's not seeking to broadcast its games over-the-air in Peoria and Bloomington, so the weakness of our TV signals should have little bearing on their decision. The size of the metro areas, regardless of the local TV stations' reach, is what is relevant to them. Or at least it should be.

And now you know.

Mikovio: You make an interesting point when you say "The size of the metro areas, regardless of the local TV stations' reach, is what is relevant to them." I was thinking in terms of (television) ad revenue. Is this determined by DMA more than MSA? I assumed ad revenue and demographics together help determine programming (e.g. MVC games on TV).

[DawgFan]

Carbondale is part of market #80 on that list. Unfortunately, Paducah has the NBC affiliate and Paducah is in KY. Cape is in Missouri. Harrisburg is 45 miles east of Carbondale and closer to Evansville.

For newbies or those who enjoy rehashing this nonsense, my view is SIU is in a very tough spot tv wise. Because Paducah is closer to Murray State and shows UK games on the NBC affiliate. Cape has the CBS affiliate and SEMO is located in town. The ABC affiliate is SIU's only hometown shill and do a pretty good job, leading with the Salukis on newscasts. The PBS affiliate, WSIU has picked up many Saluki basketball games in the past couple of years and that does reach the vast majority of southern Illinois.

What really hurts SIU is that the St.Louis affiliates cut across to the north of Carbondale fairly quickly and don't cover SIU two hours away unless it is a big tv game, MVC championship type of event. Mount Vernon (where Kent Williams is from), Centralia (where Matt Shaw is from) are towns to the north of Carbondale that are part of the St.Louis market.

It's probably similar for UNI, but at least Cedar Rapids is in their state.

[WheatShock'd]

DMA ratings are highly ineffective when gauging certain markets...For example, how could Des Moines and Wichita have a larger television market than Omaha, which has 300,000 more people than those cities? Omaha is in close proximity to two other markets that have TV stations (Lincoln and Sioux City), so, their DMA area shrinks considerably to the areas where their signals are broadcasted. If you were to combine the Omaha and Lincoln markets (which they will in 2010 in the MSA population totals), you are talking about 1.2 million+.

Wichita is all by itself, with no other markets even remotely close that have TV stations. The same goes for Des Moines, whose closest market is Cedar Rapids and Waterloo at 110+ miles respectively. So, they are able to collect all of the outlying areas their stations provide into their DMA total (I would assume this applies to Springfield as well).

Regardless, I would think that ESPN would be more interested in MSA size than DMA, given all of the innaccuracies DMA totals provide.

EDIT:

Also, I am not so sure that market size is even *that* important for college basketball broadcasting. I would think that potential alumni-base population and public popularity would play a bigger role. If it was a big deal, then it would be awfully difficult for a lot of major conference teams to get games wouldn't it? Given a lot of Big 10, Big 12, etc schools are in smaller college towns (Iowa City, Columbia, Champaign, Lafayette, Lansing, Bloomington, Manhattan, Lubbock, State College, etc, etc...By comparison, The Valley has some very sizable metros when put up against that crop. 3 cities of more than 500,000 and a whole bunch in the 200-400,000 range. That is why I am always a little baffled when I read some article on SportsLine or ESPN.com talking about Valley teams that come from "down on their luck midwestern towns", when in fact, The Valley cities are in fact LARGER than a lot of these other schools' cities.

[C0|db|00ded]

2004 Wichita MSA = 584,671 (Includes 4 counties in Kansas)

2004 Omaha MSA = 801,189 (Includes 5 counties in Nebraska and 3 counties in Iowa)

For a difference of 217,000.

Get it right numb-nuts... rofl. :doh:


T


...:cool:

[C0|db|00ded]

P.S.

We have over a million people within 60 miles of our epicenter. Wichita could expand their MSA if they wanted to inflate their numbers like our friends from OKC like to do. I broke down OKC's MSA during the arena debates and it damn near covers half of Oklahoma (slight exaggeration).


T


...:cool:

[WheatShock'd]

2004 Wichita MSA = 584,671 (Includes 4 counties in Kansas)

2004 Omaha MSA = 801,189 (Includes 5 counties in Nebraska and 3 counties in Iowa)

For a difference of 217,000.

Get it right numb-nuts... rofl. :doh:


T


...:cool:

Get over your size inferiority complex, Clod, its getting old. Face it, there are cities that are larger than Wichita (LOTS of them), Omaha is one of them. Who cares??? If you have it all figured out, why don't you go work for the Census Bureau? I am sure they would love to hear your ingenius insight. A lot of cities have a large population in a 60-mile radius, that doesn't mean they should be counted in their MSA totals. I am sure Milwaukee would love to count the Chicago population in their totals, afterall, its within 60 miles. :rolleyes:

Also, you may want to update your little logbook, the 2005 numbers have been out for awhile now (uh oh, Omaha is outgrowing Wichita, the numbers must be flawed!!!):

#85 Wichita MSA 587,055 +2.0%
#91 Wichita CSA 622,353

#60 Omaha MSA 813,170 +6.8%
#57 Omaha CSA 849,248
#47 Omaha-Lincoln CMSA 1,150,470

#93 Des Moines MSA 522,454 +8.5%
#96 Des Moines CSA 593,112
#81 Des Moines-Ames CMSA 624,928

[SiuCubFan8]

P.S.

We have over a million people within 60 miles of our epicenter. Wichita could expand their MSA if they wanted to inflate their numbers like our friends from OKC like to do. I broke down OKC's MSA during the arena debates and it damn near covers half of Oklahoma (slight exaggeration).


T


...:cool:

PPS. NO one gives a damn!:bash:

[C0|db|00ded]

Get over your size inferiority complex, Clod, its getting old. Face it, there are cities that are larger than Wichita (LOTS of them), Omaha is one of them. Who cares??? If you have it all figured out, why don't you go work for the Census Bureau? I am sure they would love to hear your ingenius insight. A lot of cities have a large population in a 60-mile radius, that doesn't mean they should be counted in their MSA totals. I am sure Milwaukee would love to count the Chicago population in their totals, afterall, its within 60 miles. :rolleyes:

Also, you may want to update your little logbook, the 2005 numbers have been out for awhile now (uh oh, Omaha is outgrowing Wichita, the numbers must be flawed!!!):

#85 Wichita MSA 587,055 +2.0%
#91 Wichita CSA 622,353

#60 Omaha MSA 813,170 +6.8%
#57 Omaha CSA 849,248
#47 Omaha-Lincoln CMSA 1,150,470

#93 Des Moines MSA 522,454 +8.5%
#96 Des Moines CSA 593,112
#81 Des Moines-Ames CMSA 624,928

Wow, she actually knows how to research a few facts. Considering the inaccuracies of your last post I would have thought you were just too lazy to think critically for the 5 minutes required to minimize the appearance of ignorance. It seems that your Achilles heal is your inability to hide the fact that you are anti-Wichita and are just a troll among trolls. However, the entertaining aspect of your existence on this board is your utter oblivion to the reality that you are running against a current that will eventually swallow you whole. I will relish watching you implode...

Good day jack*****.

Or.. may I call you Vice President Jack *****?


T


...:cool:

[da_bears]

I don't really see the point to these MSA statistics since big matchups and top 25 teams are put on TV, not teams from big markets. Maby thats why small market teams like Gonzaga and West Virgina were on TV every week while huge market teams like Chicago State and St. Johns were not.

[DawgieStyle]

It seems that your Achilles heal is your inability to hide the fact that you are anti-Wichita and are just a troll among trolls.

Troll among trolls...wow now if that isn't calling the kettle black,
I don't know what is.

[XSaluki]

I don't really see the point to these MSA statistics since big matchups and top 25 teams are put on TV, not teams from big markets. Maby thats why small market teams like Gonzaga and West Virgina were on TV every week while huge market teams like Chicago State and St. Johns were not.

You are making too much sense for this thread.

[MSNSaluki]

Troll among trolls...wow now if that isn't calling the kettle black,
I don't know what is.

That is funny!

[WheatShock'd]

Yeah, I am anti-Wichita...Just because I am stating facts and YOU don't like them. The difference is, I accept Wichita for what it is, a nice mid-sized midwestern town, a nice place to live/work, and thats about all. You, on the other hand, sound like you need to get a good job, make some money, and do some traveling, because you obviously haven't seen many other places.

[WheatShock'd]

nm

[C0|db|00ded]

Yeah, I am anti-Wichita...Just because I am stating facts and YOU don't like them. The difference is, I accept Wichita for what it is, a nice mid-sized midwestern town, a nice place to live/work, and thats about all. You, on the other hand, sound like you need to get a good job, make some money, and do some traveling, because you obviously haven't seen many other places.

You, on the other hand, sound like you need to get a good job, make some money, and do some traveling, because you obviously haven't seen many other places.

The fact-queen whiffs again!!!

I've lived in NYC (Manhattan) for a short period, traveled to St. Louis at least a dozen times, Dallas over a dozen times, KC a million times, Chicago, Houston, Los Angeles, New Orleans, Tampa, and damn near every state in between.

While I agree Omaha has us beat on almost every level (except hail stones and tornadoes)

Naw, you're not anti-Wichita at all. What a logical, factual, unbiased assessment of the differences between our two (very similar) cities. :helpsmilie:

To tell you the truth, your profile matches an arrogant KU fan who identifies as a transplanted KC'er only living in Wichita to work. Comments like these will not endear you to Wichita State fans:

WSU is NOT an "academic" school, by most people's standards it is nothing more than a commuter college

Keep making those kind of comments on a board dominated by proud WSU alums and you will continue to enjoy "special" attention.


T


...:cool:

[NayshunSycamore]

I am so glad I didn't donate to this site...

[C0|db|00ded]

I am so glad I didn't donate to this site...

No worries, we all paid the bills this year affording you the luxury of voicing your cries at our expense. Great job on announcing your status as a sponge! Congratulations on your 34 post as well!!!


T


...:cool:

[WheatShock'd]

Thats right Clod, keep ignoring the facts, keep up your pathetic insult-laden spin attempts. If that is the best you can do, I am not impressed. You're just an annoying little gnat that hides behind the anonymity of a message board.

[C0|db|00ded]

Thats right Clod, keep ignoring the facts, keep up your pathetic insult-laden spin attempts. If that is the best you can do, I am not impressed. You're just an annoying little gnat that hides behind the anonymity of a message board.

One doesn't ignore facts that one never sees. Your negative generalisms about Wichita and Wichita State are reflections of a hidden agenda that will come to light sooner than later.

Rock.. Chalk...


T


...:cool:

[C0|db|00ded]

WSU is NOT an "academic" school, by most people's standards it is nothing more than a commuter college.

The Accreditation Council of AACSB International, comprised of accredited member institutions, conducts its accreditation function. In this role, AACSB International provides guidelines to educational institutions in program, resource, and faculty planning.

Membership in AACSB International consists of institutions from all over the world some that are accredited and some that are not accredited. Fifty nine percent of member institutions are currently accredited and 41 percent are not accredited. Accreditation can be obtained for undergraduate or graduate programs alone, for both undergraduate and graduate programs, for business programs only and for both business and accounting programs. The highest level of accreditation is for all business and accounting programs at all levels (undergraduate and graduate) to be accredited. Only 165 business schools in the world have achieved this distinction. The Barton School of Business at Wichita State University is among these 165 business schools. All of its undergraduate and graduate business and accounting programs are fully accredited by AACSB International.

I think more than a few of us on here are pretty proud to have some of the best business degrees that can be earned in the state of Kansas. We are #1 in Accounting and Finance last time I checked (that includes your "other" favorite school up north).

Academic Excellence: Wichita State University is a comprehensive, national university. The University is fully accredited and has nationally ranked business programs. Our highly respected program in Entrepreneurship is ranked 7th in the U.S. according to the most recent in-depth academic review. WSU has one of the best Aerospace Engineering programs in the U.S. with research facilities unmatched by most universities around the world. The University's laboratories have been used to perform aerodynamic research on Olympic bicyclists and three of our graduates recently helped NASA to put a shuttle into orbit.

P.S. Wichita State is located in the largest city in Kansas and has over 1,000 students that live on campus. CU is located in the largest city in Nebraska and has a little over 1,500 students living on campus. Both could be defined as commuter schools.


T


...:cool:

[WheatShock'd]

Hidden agenda? Oh yes, I and my underground cult are planning a mass disinformation campaign against WSU and the city of Wichita. Our goal is to try and persuade the general populous that Wichita and WSU is in fact NOT the epicenter of the universe. However, we have met some resistance from Stephen Hawking who says it might actually be! We feel that New York City and Chicago are starting to budge...

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. Clod, you fit the bill quite well.

[C0|db|00ded]

Hidden agenda? Oh yes, I and my underground cult are planning a mass disinformation campaign against WSU and the city of Wichita. Our goal is to try and persuade the general populous that Wichita and WSU is in fact NOT the epicenter of the universe. However, we have met some resistance from Stephen Hawking who says it might actually be! We feel that New York City and Chicago are starting to budge...

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. Clod, you fit the bill quite well.

How about them 'Hawks this year?


T


...:cool:

[WheatShock'd]

How about them 'Hawks this year?


T


...:cool:

Sorry Clod, if you are somehow implying that I am a Kansas (or Iowa?) fan, you are sorely mistaken. I root for one school and have a mild interest in Iowa State and K-State, since I attended graduate school at those universities.

[MSNSaluki]

this is some funny crap.:chair: :chair: :chair: :chair:

[Shox21]

Sorry Clod, if you are somehow implying that I am a Kansas (or Iowa?) fan, you are sorely mistaken. I root for one school and have a mild interest in Iowa State and K-State, since I attended graduate school at those universities.

Someone else think maybe that school is Creighton???????

[Shox21]

this is some funny crap.:chair: :chair: :chair: :chair:


I vote that Cold and "Wheatie Sweetie" go start their own board and quit boaring the rest of us with all this "information".

[Coasterbill42]

The fact-queen whiffs again!!!

I've lived in NYC (Manhattan) for a short period, traveled to St. Louis at least a dozen times, Dallas over a dozen times, KC a million times, Chicago, Houston, Los Angeles, New Orleans, Tampa, and damn near every state in between.

Man no-life loser hobos sure do get around these days. I thought hitchhiking was illegal in most states.

[Coasterbill42]

P.S. Wichita State is located in the largest city in Kansas and has over 1,000 students that live on campus. CU is located in the largest city in Nebraska and has a little over 1,500 students living on campus. Both could be defined as commuter schools.

KCK isn't bigger than wichita?

[Coasterbill42]

I vote that Cold and "Wheatie Sweetie" go start their own board and quit boaring the rest of us with all this "information".
I second it. Gosh I hate the shockers.

[valleyclimber]

yeah, it's amazing how some of these threads kind of go off the deep end in another direction. Wasn't this originally supposed to be about the Valley getting games on ESPN? :noexpression: :valley:

[MikeKennedyRulz]

KCK isn't bigger than wichita?

Nope, Wichita is the largest city in the state of Kansas.

[MikeKennedyRulz]

I vote that Cold and "Wheatie Sweetie" go start their own board and quit boaring the rest of us with all this "information".

Clod is using an uncastrated male hog to get his point across?

[Shox21]

Clod is using an uncastrated male hog to get his point across?

Think about it now. Did I really misspell the word, or is there a meaning there?