Should the Valley add 2 more teams?

[E-Ville]

I was thinking in this day and age of re-aligning conferences that the Missouri Valley could capitalize on their recent sucess and add 2 more sucessful basketball programs.

If they did, I think it would make since to add a team a little east of the current valley line and one out west. I'll just throw these 2 teams out there, but I'd like to hear your choices as well. How about accepting Xavier and bringing back Tulsa. Xavier is a great program, they are getting great recruiting classes year after year. Tulsa has been struggling lately, but when I first started following Valley Basketball was when my Aces joined and Tulsa was going 15-3.

You could then split the league in 2 sub-divisions

Missouri Valley West:

Wichita
Creighton
Mizz. St.
Northern Iowa
Drake
Tulsa

Missouri Valley East:

SIU
Bradley
Ill. St.
Ind. St.
Evansville
Xavier

:valley: :aces:

[shockerfan13]

I don't like it. Leave it the way it is

[DUBulldog]

Should the Valley add 2 more teams?


No. We've had this discussion on ValleyTalk a couple dozen times, and my answer is still the same. I like the round-robin schedule, which would be lost if the MVC expanded.

[Nyghtewynd]

Did you know that the entry in the dictionary for "redundant" is "See: Redundant"?

[azbirdfan]

No from me as well. As dubulldog has said, we've had this discussion before (I know you probably didn't know this since you're new eville) and to me, there's no benefit to it.

I like my chances of being one of 3 or 4 out of 10 teams making the tournament as opposed to out of 12 or more. Also, I enjoy the home and home we're able to have with each team in the conference.

[Mikovio]

Only if the two teams can be counted on to bring us another NCAA bid on an regular basis. Our postseason ratio needs to be maintained for revenue-sharing purposes.

It would have to be schools with a high-level commitment to basketball. WKU seems to be the most logical choice, since they're already an associate member and play football in the Gateway.

[Aargh]

The Valley should definitely expand to 12 teams - just as soon as all Valley teams have D1 football programs and the Valley is in the BCS bowl series.

[DaShox]

A good start would be to kick Drake's butt out of the MVC and find someone with a comittment to excellence in all sports.

[DUBulldog]

A good start would be to kick Drake's butt out of the MVC and find someone with a comittment to excellence in all sports.

I was wondering how long it would take DUUUUUUH Shox to chime in with that.

Why Drake? I'm pretty sure that Drake is routinely as good as any of the other privates when it comes to the "All Sports Trophy".

[shockinphi]

There is no way Tulsa re-joins the Valley, they play D-1 football.

[outpost]

To paraphrase a recent comment by Dewey Kalmer (after the floodgates opened in a recent 6th inning)........"status quo".....

.......on membership, that is.

[DoubleJayAlum]

I also like it the way it is. Frankly, with where we are right now, we don't need more teams.

If the MVC were to add teams, one criterion used to evaluate possible additions should be the size of the city in which the school is located. Adding larger cities might make a TV contract more appealing to the networks and/or garner even more national media attention.

[WSUfan]

A good start would be to kick Drake's butt out of the MVC and find someone with a comittment to excellence in all sports.
DaShox's comment is silly. Drake is the oldest member of the Valley. Drake's WBB team beat WSU's twice. In five years, Drake's MBB team could be the top team in the Valley. However I think Drake should be required to have baseball. :grin:

[DUBulldog]

DaShox's comment is silly. Drake is the oldest member of the Valley. Drake's WBB team beat WSU's twice. In five years, Drake's MBB team could be the top team in the Valley. However I think Drake should be required to have baseball. :grin:

Only if WSU is required to have soccer:grin:

[WSUfan]

Only if WSU is required to have soccer:grin:
Co-Ed? :innocent: If Cold agrees, we could add soccer at WSU! :lol:

[Shockerman]

You know I can't resist this thread....

It is a simple solution E-ville my friend. Drop Evansville, and add WKU. Once the Shockers reinstate their Football team the Gateway name can be changed back to the Valley. My new Valley...

Wichita State
Illinois State
Indiana State
Southern Illinois
Northern Iowa
Western Kentucky
Missouri State
Bradley
Creighton
Drake

IMO

This makes for a much better Valley and it would also bring about better league recogniton as all of our sports would be played under the Valley name.

I understand where DaShox is coming from with Drake. However I can't really think of a better replacement for them. Maybe North Dakota State in ten years or so? I would rather see Drake step up to the plate, add scholarships to their Football team and take mens basketball serious.

[1972Shocker]

No to expanding the MVC to 10 teams as cussed and discussed many times before.

Don't hold your breath on WSU bringing football back.

[DUBulldog]

I understand where DaShox is coming from with Drake. However I can't really think of a better replacement for them. Maybe North Dakota State in ten years or so? I would rather see Drake step up to the plate, add scholarships to their Football team and take mens basketball serious.

I agree about the men's basketball part. But, other than men's b-ball, I'd guess that Drake's athletic program is as good as, or better than, any of the other privates in the MVC. I'm pretty sure that Drake participates in more different sports than the other private institutions.

It's not a case of Drake not taking men's basketball seriously, it's been an incredible string of poor choices over the years....going all the way back to 1971, when Denny Crum was passed over for the Drake job for the immortal Howard Stacey. (Drake was coming off 3 consecutive Elite 8 appearances at the time, and should have had no problem hiring a great coach). The further that Drake's program dropped, the worse the decisions that were made. I think that the program is moving in the right direction now, but it's not gonna happen overnight.

As for football, scholarships aren't likely, unless some rich alum underwrites the whole operation. Drake played scholarship football from the early 20th century through the mid-80s....and they lost a ton of money on football every year. Drake's football team is quite successful at their current level, and football now makes money for DU (not from revenue, but from 100+ guys paying tuition to go to Drake...guys who wouldn't be at DU if not for the football).

[ISU87]

NO, end of discussion

[outpost]

......Howard Stacey.........

Oh, SH**, I'm old enough to remember that name....:helpsmilie:

[DaShox]

2002-03 MVC All Sports Standings
#8. Drake


Is that your goal? To be "as good as the other privates"? Considering Bradley and CU have annually sucked in the MVC All Sports Trophy for the last 30 years, I'd say you achieved your goal. Congratulations.

[RoyalShock]

But, DaShox, you point out Drake at number eight (from only one year, a few years ago) but haven't mentioned anyone else or any other years. I'm sure this will fuel a full-blown research project on Drake's all-sports history, as you appear to be on a crusade of sorts.

Almost all conferences, even some BCS ones, have schools that don't finish well, except on a few occassions, in the major sports. Baylor? A quarter of the Big East and C-USA?

[SubGod22]

No expansion. The home and home with everyone is great. The only time we should talk about adding a team is if someone else is leaving.

[outpost]

"Excuse me boys, would you mind if we joined your little ol' league?"

http://i.a.cnn.net/si/multimedia/photo_gallery/2006/02/10/gallery.jenn/jenn6.jpg

[SubGod22]

We can add them!!!

[troutangler]

Xavier isn't coming to the Valley. They're in a higher prestige conference (in their own minds) and are on TV more often than most of the Valley. They wouldn't see any benefit in it.

Tulsa won't come back to the Valley either. They're D1 in football. Get real.

[Kramer33]

Don't expand. Look what it did to the ACC basketball schedule when they didn't play home-home against each other. I like that I get to see every conference team every year.

[DUBulldog]

2002-03 MVC All Sports Standings
#8. Drake


Is that your goal? To be "as good as the other privates"? Considering Bradley and CU have annually sucked in the MVC All Sports Trophy for the last 30 years, I'd say you achieved your goal. Congratulations.

My point is....why single out Drake with this statement?

A good start would be to kick Drake's butt out of the MVC and find someone with a comittment to excellence in all sports.


The worst example you could find with Drake was an 8th place finish. Who finished below Drake, and why not pick them to be kicked out, rather than Drake? Since this is apparently about "commitment to excellence in all sports", and two other schools finished below Drake in the all-sports standings, it seems to me that Drake isn't the only one not "committed to excellence in all sports."

Over the years, you have on many occasions raised this same suggestion. If it was purely a men's basketball issue, I could see your point (to a degree). Otherwise, I see no reason for your continuous campaign of negativity toward Drake. It seems that you have a personal axe to grind for some reason.

[MSNSaluki]

"Excuse me boys, would you mind if we joined your little ol' league?"

http://i.a.cnn.net/si/multimedia/photo_gallery/2006/02/10/gallery.jenn/jenn6.jpg


they can join any league they please.

[Lurking Dog]

Drake played scholarship football from the early 20th century through the mid-80s.

Were they really offering scholarships in the 1920s? I always thought that was more of a post-WWII phenomenon. Drake certainly would like you to think they offered scholarships waaaay back then. And they keep separate scholarship and nonscholarship records.

What a shame Drake (1)ignored Scott Phaydavong's second Drake rushing record in two years; and (2) put the record on their B list, while nonscholarship players from the Mesozoic Era and College Division players from the 1960s become record holders emeritus. Is it any wonder others don't respect Drake football when Drake doesn't respect Drake football?:ranting:

[Lurking Dog]

they can join any league they please.

But Truman State should never be allowed in the MVC. :no:

http://showgirls.truman.edu/Spike.jpg

[Lurking Dog]

On second thought, it appears they did offer football scholarships in the 1920s, at least to some of the dozen or so players who lettered each year.

I wonder who would win a 100-yard race between Bill Boelter and Scott Phaydavong? :innocent:

[E-Ville]

Sorry for posting this thread again. My fault. I'm just obsessed with valley basketball and I thought 2 more good programs would put us over the top and a definite tv contract.:valley: :valley:

[WuDrWu]

Please don't take this personally, but the Valley (and I mean the commish and every school) completely blew it with the previous 2 additions to the conference. Forgive me if I am a little gun shy of the prospect of more "additions" like that.

[SubGod22]

I can understand why people bring this up. All your "power" conferences have pretty much gone to more teams. 12 is the absolute most any conference should have, but even then you pretty much lose the round robin effect. I like having a balanced conference schedule to have a true regular season champ. With 12 you could still do that, but then you have 22 games already scheduled and that can really hurt the noncon.

[DUBulldog]

I can understand why people bring this up. All your "power" conferences have pretty much gone to more teams. 12 is the absolute most any conference should have, but even then you pretty much lose the round robin effect. I like having a balanced conference schedule to have a true regular season champ. With 12 you could still do that, but then you have 22 games already scheduled and that can really hurt the noncon.

And, the main reason the "power" conferences have gone to 12+ teams is football. By, going to 12 teams, it allows them to split into 2 divisions and have a playoff game (=$$$$$$$$). Since the MVC doesn't have football, no reason for the MVC to even look at the possibility of expanding to 12 teams.

[Mike]

Please don't take this personally, but the Valley (and I mean the commish and every school) completely blew it with the previous 2 additions to the conference. Forgive me if I am a little gun shy of the prospect of more "additions" like that.

I really don't know what 2 additions this post is referring to. Please clarify. THanks.

[DaShox]

Here's a look at the final standings with each schools average finish listed to the right:

1. SMS, 3.526
2. Illinois State, 3.529
3. Wichita State, 3.900
4. Northern Iowa, 4.000
5. Creighton, 4.846
6. Indiana State, 5.179
7. Southern Illinois, 5.412
8. Evansville, 6.300
9. Drake, 6.429
10. Bradley, 6.813

http://www.goshockers.com/article.aspx?ID=1011

I don't need to go after Bradley because their "performance" has previously been agreed upon.

Why Drake? Because you are consistently at the bottom and make no effort to improve. That's why.

[MSNSaluki]

But Truman State should never be allowed in the MVC. :no:

http://showgirls.truman.edu/Spike.jpg

i'll drink to that!

[DaShox]

MVC Tournament History
#8. Drake Record: 10-27 Winning Percentage: .270 Championships: 0

Drake has the second lowest all-time winning percentage (.270) in MVC Tournament history.

Three school's have never won a Men's MVC Tournament Championship: Drake, Evansville and West Texas State. West Texas State is now DII, and UE has examined moving to DII.

Drake has won the MVC Regular Season outright one time in 100 years.

Drake Post Season
1975 National Commissioners Invitational.
Drake last went to the NIT in 1986. 20 years ago.
Drake last went to the NCAA Tournament in 1971. 35 years ago.

Obviously, Drake is comitted to academic excellence. It seems to be in everyone's best interest that Drake drop to DII and focus on academics.

[DUBulldog]

Here's a look at the final standings with each schools average finish listed to the right:

1. SMS, 3.526
2. Illinois State, 3.529
3. Wichita State, 3.900
4. Northern Iowa, 4.000
5. Creighton, 4.846
6. Indiana State, 5.179
7. Southern Illinois, 5.412
8. Evansville, 6.300
9. Drake, 6.429
10. Bradley, 6.813

http://www.goshockers.com/article.aspx?ID=1011

I don't need to go after Bradley because their "performance" has previously been agreed upon.

Why Drake? Because you are consistently at the bottom and make no effort to improve. That's why.

What year are those from? If Bradley is behind Drake, then why aren't you asking for Bradley to be kicked out? (note to Bradley fans....I am in no way suggesting that Bradley be kicked out).

Somebody's always going to be at the bottom. If you kick out this year's bottom team, then next year somebody else will be there. Do you kick them out then?

Look, I don't know any Drake fans that are happy with what's happened with Drake's men's basketball program. I'm certainly not. As I said earlier, if this is about men's basketball only, I see your point (to a degree). Over the last 4-5 years though, Drake hasn't been the worst MVC team...they certainly haven't been great, but not the worst.

But, for you to suggest that Drake's overall athletic program is somehow inferior to the rest of the conference is a stretch.

Does the MVC list the all-sports standings anywhere? I've never been able to find it. I'm curious to see several year's worth of standings.

[DaShox]

Men's Golf: Drake has finished dead last 13 times.
Men's Golf: Drake has zero Team Championships in 57 years.
Men's Golf: Drake has two individual championships in 57 years.

That's not very good. Btw, WSU has the most with 13 Team Championships and is second all time with 11 individual championships.

Drake Volleyball
Drake entered the MVC in Volleyball in 1992.

1992: 7th
1993: 8th
1994: 3rd
1995: 2nd
1996: 2nd
1997: 9th
1998: 5th
1999: 7th
2000: 8th
2001: 10th
2002: 8th
2003: 8th
2004: 10th
2005: 9th

Looks like a down trend to me. I think if you haven't been to the Men's Basketball NCAA Tournament in 35 years, maybe DI isn't for you.

[Chairman of the Boards]

2006 Men's Golf Championship... "Drake finished two strokes behind the Shockers with an 884 (293-288-303). In third was Southern Illinois with a score of 886 (299-286-301)."

[engrshock]

Drake is the team with the longest membership in the MVC. Teams have came and went but DU stays. Someday DU will get a special team and really compete and or win the MVC. It will be great for them when that occurs.

[engrshock]

Current Members

* Bradley (joined 1948, withdrew 1951, rejoined 1955)
* Creighton (joined 1928, withdrew 1948, rejoined 1977)
* Drake (charter member 1907)
* Evansville (joined 1994)
* Illinois State (joined 1981)
* Indiana State (joined 1977)
* Missouri State (joined 1990)
* Northern Iowa (joined 1991)
* Southern Illinois (joined 1975)
* Wichita State (joined 1945)

[Lurking Dog]

* Drake (charter member 1907)


Drake isn't a charter member and did withdraw for a few years.

Now let's get back to golf talk. :lol:

[mid-major fan]

I think that for the present, Drake wants to stay in the Valley and the Valley wants Drake to stay. Drake has been "warned" before about its financial commitment to MBB and there was a big-time discussion about being competitive when Drake declared four players ineligible at mid-season about five years ago but right now, there are no issues brewing. That said, if the Valley continues to improve and other schools start to budget over $1,000,000 for MBB salaries, for example, both Drake and Evansville are going to have difficulty keeping up and there could be discussions about whether the MVC is right for both schools. However, just finishing last is never going to get Drake or anyone else kicked out. As has been pointed out, someone always has to finish last. I do think that Drake needs to continue to play a credible schedule and I think Drake will do so, especially because we play Iowa and Iowa State each year. Same goes for Evansville.

[DUBulldog]

Men's Golf: Drake has finished dead last 13 times.
Men's Golf: Drake has zero Team Championships in 57 years.
Men's Golf: Drake has two individual championships in 57 years.

That's not very good. Btw, WSU has the most with 13 Team Championships and is second all time with 11 individual championships.

Drake Volleyball
Drake entered the MVC in Volleyball in 1992.

1992: 7th
1993: 8th
1994: 3rd
1995: 2nd
1996: 2nd
1997: 9th
1998: 5th
1999: 7th
2000: 8th
2001: 10th
2002: 8th
2003: 8th
2004: 10th
2005: 9th

Looks like a down trend to me. I think if you haven't been to the Men's Basketball NCAA Tournament in 35 years, maybe DI isn't for you.

Thanks for your interest. I think I'd prefer to have the powers-that-be at Drake make that decision, rather than you.

Since you appear to have a lot of time on your hands, can you post Drake's finishes in women's basketball, soccer and tennis, and men's tennis and soccer. Since we're talking about "commitment to all sports", perhaps we shouldn't just pick and choose those that we want to discuss. I'm sure that you could find similar statistics for different sports for Evansville, Bradley, Creighton, etc.

I'd be curious to see the all-sports standings for the last five years. I'm just curious how many times Drake has finished last, since they are, after all, the team that should be kicked out of the conference for not being "commited to all sports".

[Mc Bulldog]

Sorry Lurkage .. I'm feeling a little ornery this evening!

And by the way Lurkage .. be honest! .. how do you feel about the Church of Latter Day Saints?

[Lurking Dog]

And by the way Lurkage .. be honest! .. how do you feel about the Church of Latter Day Saints?


"It is more discreet to be silent than to speak."

--Epictetus, famous Drake philosophy professor

:original:

[Mc Bulldog]

I never did give anybody hell. I just told the truth and they thought it was hell.

-Harry S. Truman

[WuDrWu]

I really don't know what 2 additions this post is referring to. Please clarify. THanks.



UNI and EU.

[Jayfan]

No way! I love having the home and away series I hate the Big east style conference I want to play everybody twice.

[cuhoops]

Please don't take this personally, but the Valley (and I mean the commish and every school) completely blew it with the previous 2 additions to the conference. Forgive me if I am a little gun shy of the prospect of more "additions" like that.


You seriously think UNI is a bad addition to the valley? LOL.

[da_bears]

I say 10 teams max, but if someone left, WKU would be the best choice since they are already in the gateway.

My best case senario-
WSU adds football
WKU joins, goes I-A
UNI, SIU, MSU and Ill St go I-A
Tulsa and Memphis join.

non-football members: Bradley, Creighton

Indy St wont go I-A so they are left behind in I-AA land with Drake.

[WuDrWu]

You seriously think UNI is a bad addition to the valley? LOL.


Your lack of understanding more than what you see on the scoreboard is a perfect example of your stupidity.

[MSNSaluki]

there will NEVER be Division I football in this league so we have to keep an eye out for good basketball programs that fit the mold of the schools already in place.

western kentucky would be a fantastic addtion.

[valleyclimber]

WOW! Da Bears, I like the way you think with adding Tulsa and Memphis (two good sized metros to help snag television deal for the MVC). Hell, if your senario played out, the Valley would be flat out better than two D-IA football conferences right off the bat (MAC and the SUNBELT). Man, but there's no way I'd like to see the Sycs or Drake leave the Valley.

I am kind of in the middle on expansion because I love a round robin schedule. At the same time, I can appreciate the fact that if the Valley added a couple of good b-ball schools located in large metro areas, then the MVC could get more TV time because of adding a few million viewers with the new schools coming aboard. Two schools I 've always thought would be good for the Valley are Illinois-Chicago (#3 national market) and Butler (Indianapolis...#14 national market). It's a tough call in my mind, but it seems like conference affiliation is a shifting landscape these days, so it never hurts to constantly keep ideas in mind.

:original: :valley:

[mid-major fan]

Given the fact that the Valley has scheduling difficulties and the fact that most schools can now schedule two additional games every year, I think we could keep the round-robin schedule even with 12 teams.

[frontrowdrake]

Drake (and Iowa State) needs a baseball team. Soccer is a communist sport.:innocent:

[Dawgbit]

WOW! Da Bears, I like the way you think with adding Tulsa and Memphis (two good sized metros to help snag television deal for the MVC). Hell, if your senario played out, the Valley would be flat out better than two D-IA football conferences right off the bat (MAC and the SUNBELT). Man, but there's no way I'd like to see the Sycs or Drake leave the Valley.

I am kind of in the middle on expansion because I love a round robin schedule. At the same time, I can appreciate the fact that if the Valley added a couple of good b-ball schools located in large metro areas, then the MVC could get more TV time because of adding a few million viewers with the new schools coming aboard. Two schools I 've always thought would be good for the Valley are Illinois-Chicago (#3 national market) and Butler (Indianapolis...#14 national market). It's a tough call in my mind, but it seems like conference affiliation is a shifting landscape these days, so it never hurts to constantly keep ideas in mind.

:original: :valley:


But if a Chicago based team were to be added, what would Wichita and Omaha fans have left to argue over?:no:

[UWMPantherholic]

But if a Chicago based team were to be added, what would Wichita and Omaha fans have left to argue over?:no:

they could argue over who thinks the Cubs suck more :original:

[DUShock]

"If it ain't broke, don't fix it" comes to mind when such nonsensicle topics are discussed.

Go Valley!!

Go Shocks!!!!

[MSNSaluki]

"If it ain't broke, don't fix it" comes to mind when such nonsensicle topics are discussed.

Go Valley!!

Go Shocks!!!!

true.

[stormpanther5012]

The valley adding two teams and trying to jump to BCS level is retarded. The MVC is a great conference because it is made up of teams from mid-size cities with hardcore hometown fans, thats what makes it such a fun conference. Adding teams and trying to go D-IA in football and all of that would just be pointless. This is very strong basketball conference, and its a lot of fun to have home and home every year with every team, and staying "mid-major" (whatever that means) conference is not a bad thing, in my mind its a great thing, keeping the teams full of mid-west local and regional players, and keeping the BCS a-holes scared out of their minds that they might have to play an MVC team. So adding teams and dividing the conference is a really bad idea in my mind.

[Aargh]

But if a Chicago based team were to be added, what would Wichita and Omaha fans have left to argue over?:no:
I used to play with a drummer who claimed he grew up in a bad part of Chicago. That eventually raised the question - is there a "good part" of Chicago? There is - it's just that the good parts of Chicago are all at least 30 miles away from the Chicago city limits.

WSU and CU fans could easily shift to "quality of life" issues and easily claim "scoreboard" on the peener meter.

If the Valley wants to add a town that would really let the CU and WSU fans have fun - add Fresno St. Fresno is a western clone of Wichita and Omaha.

Let's add UWM. Then we can tell all those fans that while Milwaukee is known for beer, there hasn't been a good beer out of Milwaukee - FOREVER! Then WSU and CU fans can get in a p*ssing match over who has the best micro-breweries.

There is no challenge too great for Cu and WSU fans.

[SiuCubFan8]

I used to play with a drummer who claimed he grew up in a bad part of Chicago. That eventually raised the question - is there a "good part" of Chicago? There is - it's just that the good parts of Chicago are all at least 30 miles away from the Chicago city limits.

WSU and CU fans could easily shift to "quality of life" issues and easily claim "scoreboard" on the peener meter.

If the Valley wants to add a town that would really let the CU and WSU fans have fun - add Fresno St. Fresno is a western clone of Wichita and Omaha.

Let's add UWM. Then we can tell all those fans that while Milwaukee is known for beer, there hasn't been a good beer out of Milwaukee - FOREVER! Then WSU and CU fans can get in a p*ssing match over who has the best micro-breweries.

There is no challenge too great for Cu and WSU fans.

You obviously have not been to Chicago recently.

[UWMPantherholic]

if you add a Chicago team, here's your choices...

Loyola - high school gym, fans have more conspiracy theories than the JFK assassination, if they don't get to the tourney this year, i don't know how great of a chance they have to keep going after that, no postseason tournament appearance since 1985.

Illinois-Chicago (UIC) - coached by Jimmy Collins, recruits kids w/ questionable academics that has been biting them in the butt lately, arena sucks, hundreds of inner-city families bussed in each game so they can inflate the attendance figures, probably will get threatened w/ physical violence by the little punks brought in. oh and no postseason victories.

i'm not gonna include Chicago State for obvious reasons.

[BearsCountry]

If we want to go for the future then North Dakota State and South Dakota State would be the way too go. They also the right name. That is what WuDrWu is getting at. I would love to have Memphis, Tulsa, or Xavier but it ain't happening. Also Western Kentucky is probally MAC bound.

[MSNSaluki]

If we want to go for the future then North Dakota State and South Dakota State would be the way too go. They also the right name. That is what WuDrWu is getting at. I would love to have Memphis, Tulsa, or Xavier but it ain't happening. Also Western Kentucky is probally MAC bound.

north dakota state has a nice athletic program and nice facilities.

[BUBraves1987]

I do not like that setup. I think the MoValley is fine as it currently stands. In all honesty, What are the chances that the valley could add a few more teams in the near future?

Micheal

:braves: