Kyle Whelliston comment on WSU\Syracuse

[Myopicraiderfan]

http://proxy.espn.go.com/chat/chatESPN?event_id=12537

Bill Woodland Park,CO: Did Wichita State harm themselves and the Valley by taking a one and done with Syracuse?

SportsNation Kyle Whelliston: (4:20 PM ET ) That was a head-scratcher, I mean it goes against the MVC scheduling philosophy: don't take guarantee games. I haven't had a chance to talk to Coach Turgeon or Commissioner Elgin since it went down, I don't know what the story is yet... (but if WSU wins that game, everyone looks like a genius.)

[TNMSUFAN]

CU fans have to like this comment especially with some of the Shocker fans calling their arena the "Quiet Center"

Trinks (Newton, MA): Kyle, in your opinion, which mid-major schools have the most rabid fan base?

Kyle Whelliston: (4:15 PM ET ) Anyone in the MVC qualifies, and the CAA is catching up quickly. Some of the smaller leagues still only draw a few thousand (or less), but the Big Idea is that with more coverage, more people will care. But as it stands now, I've never seen a crazier pack of yahoos than at Creighton games. League of their own.

[Myopicraiderfan]

Jon (NYC): Just like a mid-major guy to first complain about the elite teams not playing mid-majors and then when Syracuse schedules a bunch of them, you complain that they are all at the Dome. Would you also like Syracuse to rest their 3 best players, to make it even more fair?

SportsNation Kyle Whelliston: (4:44 PM ET ) They play mids every year, but not at their places - that's what people like me complain about, that Syracuse's unwillingness to spend the holiday season elsewhere has reached legendary status. With the new RPI formula, they'd be better served to go on the road anyway. Everybody would benefit.

[dean_siu]

http://proxy.espn.go.com/chat/chatESPN?event_id=12537

Bill Woodland Park,CO: Did Wichita State harm themselves and the Valley by taking a one and done with Syracuse?

SportsNation Kyle Whelliston: (4:20 PM ET ) That was a head-scratcher, I mean it goes against the MVC scheduling philosophy: don't take guarantee games. I haven't had a chance to talk to Coach Turgeon or Commissioner Elgin since it went down, I don't know what the story is yet... (but if WSU wins that game, everyone looks like a genius.)


Even Wheilliston is puzzled over this....I really hope he does have the chance to quiz Elgin on it....because I bet the commish is absolutely livid.

I hope that as a result of this move...the MVC establishes a fine for teams accepting one and dones (similar to what they did with the RPI standards a few years back).

It's really frustrating to see teams like Creighton and SIU build up this league by having standards....only to see the teams which rode their coat tails (Bradley and WSU) turn around and whore out the league for a quick buck.

[C0|db|00ded]

CU fans have to like this comment especially with some of the Shocker fans calling their arena the "Quiet Center"

Trinks (Newton, MA): Kyle, in your opinion, which mid-major schools have the most rabid fan base?

Kyle Whelliston: (4:15 PM ET ) Anyone in the MVC qualifies, and the CAA is catching up quickly. Some of the smaller leagues still only draw a few thousand (or less), but the Big Idea is that with more coverage, more people will care. But as it stands now, I've never seen a crazier pack of yahoos than at Creighton games. League of their own.

The Qwiet Center is not a point of argument, it is a fact. This individual is misinformed if she thinks Creighton puts on a crazier show than WSU. We aren't even in the same league :lol: :lol: :lol:

However, the label of yahoos I can agree with.


T


...:cool:

[C0|db|00ded]

Even Wheilliston is puzzled over this....I really hope he does have the chance to quiz Elgin on it....because I bet the commish is absolutely livid.

I hope that as a result of this move...the MVC establishes a fine for teams accepting one and dones (similar to what they did with the RPI standards a few years back).

It's really frustrating to see teams like Creighton and SIU build up this league by having standards....only to see the teams which rode their coat tails (Bradley and WSU) turn around and whore out the league for a quick buck.

only to see the teams which rode their coat tails (Bradley and WSU) turn around and whore out the league for a quick buck.

LMFAO! I'm going to hang this one on my dining room wall!! :lol: :lol: :lol:

The Missouri Valley Conference (Founded: 1992)


T


...:cool:

[RoyalShock]

Whelliston, to my knowledge, has not yet attended a game in Wichita. So I have no problem with his statement.

I do recall one of the guys from CollegeHoopsNet attending the Providence game last year and he came away impressed by the atmosphere.

[ColdShockin']

Of course Creighton would win the prize as best "crazy pack of yahoos"
Here's what Kyle said in 2005 about the more knowledgable fans of the league ...


KW: I've really gotten an education in the MVC. I've lived on the East Coast most of my life. I went to school at Oregon, The Pit, so I saw a lot of Pac-10 games. The middle of the country was my gap. I'm impressed with the fans from Bradley, Southern Illinois and Wichita State. I mean 20-year-old kids who can name rosters from way back.

http://www.sports-central.org/sports/2005/01/27/sc_interviews_a_man_of_100_games.php

[iSASO]

Whelliston has obviously not consulted with Leonard Hamilton on this topic.

[iSASO]

Even Wheilliston is puzzled over this....I really hope he does have the chance to quiz Elgin on it....because I bet the commish is absolutely livid.

I hope that as a result of this move...the MVC establishes a fine for teams accepting one and dones (similar to what they did with the RPI standards a few years back).

It's really frustrating to see teams like Creighton and SIU build up this league by having standards....only to see the teams which rode their coat tails (Bradley and WSU) turn around and whore out the league for a quick buck.

I doubt Elgin is livid - opposed to the game. Here are his comments after helping UNI schedule LSU last year:

One outcome that significantly helped the Valley came when Northern Iowa won at highly rated Louisiana State on Dec. 19. Northern Iowa Coach Greg McDermott and Elgin had discussed whether to schedule the game, but Elgin felt the decision was a "lobbed softball" because the Panthers were experienced and many of the Tigers' fans were expected to be away for the holidays.

"We rolled the dice, and it worked out," McDermott said. "Not only has it benefited us, but everyone in our league has benefited."

[RoyalShock]

It's really frustrating to see teams like Creighton and SIU build up this league by having standards....only to see the teams which rode their coat tails (Bradley and WSU) turn around and whore out the league for a quick buck.

The other possibility is that Bradley and WSU will greater capitalize on their success than CU and SIU did.

What CU and SIU did (particularly SIU in their S16 year) was great and the MVC has benefitted. So given the scheduling philosophies of their coaches I can understand their fans being a little upset. But while CU and SIU hs done a good job at maintaining their level of competitiveness they haven't taken the next step. So why should WSU try to employ the same strategy if their goal is to keep getting better? Why not try a different route instead of just following the status quo?

I'm starting to wonder if the loud objections by most CU and a few SIU fans isn't jealousy, but fear that the scheduling strategies employed by their leaders may be proven a failure.

[outpost]

Kudos to RoyalShock.

A calm comment amidst a storm of criticism.

[dean_siu]

I doubt Elgin is livid - opposed to the game. Here are his comments after helping UNI schedule LSU last year:

One outcome that significantly helped the Valley came when Northern Iowa won at highly rated Louisiana State on Dec. 19. Northern Iowa Coach Greg McDermott and Elgin had discussed whether to schedule the game, but Elgin felt the decision was a "lobbed softball" because the Panthers were experienced and many of the Tigers' fans were expected to be away for the holidays.

"We rolled the dice, and it worked out," McDermott said. "Not only has it benefited us, but everyone in our league has benefited."


UNI's visit to LSU was not a one and done deal...it was actually part of an exempt tournament that included the games in Vegas....you can't even begin to compare the two scenarios.

[cuhoops]

The Qwiet Center is not a point of argument, it is a fact. This individual is misinformed if she thinks Creighton puts on a crazier show than WSU. We aren't even in the same league :lol: :lol: :lol:

However, the label of yahoos I can agree with.


T


...:cool:

Cold, get real, NO ONE cares about your opinion whatsoever, the Qwest center is awesome, whether you want to admit it or not, and Creighton's fans are awesome too. Koch is a great arena, and WSU has great fans as well. GET OVER YOURSELF!!!!!!!!!

[iSASO]

I'm starting to wonder if the loud objections by most CU and a few SIU fans isn't jealousy, but fear that the scheduling strategies employed by their leaders may be proven a failure.

That was my exact thought when I was told of the discourse happening on the board today.

[dean_siu]

The other possibility is that Bradley and WSU will greater capitalize on their success than CU and SIU did.

What CU and SIU did (particularly SIU in their S16 year) was great and the MVC has benefitted. So given the scheduling philosophies of their coaches I can understand their fans being a little upset. But while CU and SIU hs done a good job at maintaining their level of competitiveness they haven't taken the next step. So why should WSU try to employ the same strategy if their goal is to keep getting better? Why not try a different route instead of just following the status quo?

I'm starting to wonder if the loud objections by most CU and a few SIU fans isn't jealousy, but fear that the scheduling strategies employed by their leaders may be proven a failure.

Creighton and SIU are both ranked in many pre-season top 25's....having multiple teams ranked to start the season is not something commonplace for the Valley.

To say this is "maintaining" is not correct at all, the philosophy and results of these two programs have risen the MVC to new levels and it wasn't on a downward spiral at all until some teams have decided to sell out the league to enhance their pocketbooks.

[RoyalShock]

UNI's visit to LSU was not a one and done deal...it was actually part of an exempt tournament that included the games in Vegas....you can't even begin to compare the two scenarios.

If the decision of whether to play in that tournament hinged on the wisdom of playing the LSU game (as it seems from Elgin's comments), then it is a valid comparison.

Not only that, if the tournament format was similar to the S. Padre deal WSU had with Illinois last year (two cupcakes at home, two games at the tournament site), then UNI was perhaps considered a "cupcake". I hope that's not the case, but part of this discussion is based on appearances, it seems to me.

[WSUbballer]

Creighton and SIU are both ranked in many pre-season top 25's....having multiple teams ranked to start the season is not something commonplace for the Valley.

To say this is "maintaining" is not correct at all, the philosophy and results of these two programs have risen the MVC to new levels and it wasn't on a downward spiral at all until some teams have decided to sell out the league to enhance their pocketbooks.
Perhaps, one is looking to enhance the quality of schedule and help build a resume for a possilbe NCAA berth... Sometimes you don't get the scenario you like, but life aint fair. The Valley does not equate with the Big East, a fact of life. Deal with it.

[RoyalShock]

Creighton and SIU are both ranked in many pre-season top 25's....having multiple teams ranked to start the season is not something commonplace for the Valley.

To say this is "maintaining" is not correct at all, the philosophy and results of these two programs have risen the MVC to new levels and it wasn't on a downward spiral at all until some teams have decided to sell out the league to enhance their pocketbooks.

What downward spiral? Show me evidence of that.

And I like being ranked in pre-season polls as much as the next Valley fan. But the key word is "pre-season". It could also be argued that CU and SIU are now benefitting from WSU and Bradley's success last year. You can't have it both ways.

FWIW, I would love nothing more than WSU, CU, and SIU being ranked all year and at the end. I just find it odd that a single game with Syracuse, in and of itself, can bring out such vitriole. There's got to be something else behind it.

[rjl]

What downward spiral? Show me evidence of that.

And I like being ranked in pre-season polls as much as the next Valley fan. But the key word is "pre-season". It could also be argued that CU and SIU are now benefitting from WSU and Bradley's success last year. You can't have it both ways.

FWIW, I would love nothing more than WSU, CU, and SIU being ranked all year and at the end. I just find it odd that a single game with Syracuse, in and of itself, can bring out such vitriole. There's got to be something else behind it.

You hit the nail on the head earlier: jealousy.

I mean, seriously. There's no other logical reason behind it. WSU's scheduling philosophy no more effects SIU or CU's than Gonzaga's.

[dean_siu]

Can I ask you something? Are you satisfied with the opponents on SIU's schedule? Cut the whore crap and what not, just answer a simple yes or no, please.

Yes, I am satisfied with our opponents. Would I like to have some more schools from the Big Ten, Big 12, ACC, or Big East? Of course....but not on a one & done or even a 2 for 1 deal.

Are you happy with your schedule? You really get to see some great powerhouses coming into Wichita during the OOC schedule! :noexpression:

Our scheduling philosophy has worked very well as the Salukis are one of only 16 teams (I believe its 16...but that number might be off by 1 or 2) to have played in the last 5 NCAA tournaments.

Developing a schedule filled with quality opponents that can give us a contested battle everytime is much preferable than taking on a few "powerhouses" on the road and a bunch of cupcakes at home.

[RoyalShock]

You hit the nail on the head earlier: jealousy.

I mean, seriously. There's no other logical reason behind it. WSU's scheduling philosophy no more effects SIU or CU's than Gonzaga's.

Actually, I said I don't think it's jealousy, but fear that CU and SIU's scheduling philosophy has been wrong.

[DawgieStyle]

oh come on, of all the teams in the valley, SIU has NO REASON to be jealous of anyone. They have set the bar in the valley in recent years. 5 straight NCAA's, no one has matched that. A sweet 16 as well. I don't see anyone "passing" SIU by. When you do, you can spout off the jealousy rehtoric, but until then, save it. As for this year...SIU has as good as chance as CU or WSU to do very well in the top 25 and in the NCAA's. Let's just see what happens this year before we spout off about who is jealous of who.

[dean_siu]

Actually, I said I don't think it's jealousy, but fear that CU and SIU's scheduling philosophy has been wrong.

Wrong enough to get us to 5 straight NCAA tournaments...give me a break.

And I'm not jealous at all.....if we wanted games like this, we could have them right and left. In fact, we had an offer to play North Carolina last year on ESPN and turned it down.

If we had taken that game, I would have been even more upset because I personally wouldn't want to be a fan of a school which was whoring out the league.

[RoyalShock]

Yes, I am satisfied with our opponents. Would I like to have some more schools from the Big Ten, Big 12, ACC, or Big East? Of course....but not on a one & done or even a 2 for 1 deal.

Are you happy with your schedule? You really get to see some great powerhouses coming into Wichita during the OOC schedule! :noexpression:

Our scheduling philosophy has worked very well as the Salukis are one of only 16 teams (I believe its 16...but that number might be off by 1 or 2) to have played in the last 5 NCAA tournaments.

Developing a schedule filled with quality opponents that can give us a contested battle everytime is much preferable than taking on a few "powerhouses" on the road and a bunch of cupcakes at home.

I will not belittle what CU and SIU have done. Reaching the tournament in consecutive years and even winning one since the S16 run is great. And that is what I meant by "maintaining". I would be happy if WSU can also "maintain" as CU and SIU have.

But I would be ecstatic if they can elevate even further. And if it takes an a few 2-for-1s (with the semi-nuetral site) and an occassional one-and-done with a top team, then I'm OK with that.

[WSUbballer]

Yes, I am satisfied with our opponents. Would I like to have some more schools from the Big Ten, Big 12, ACC, or Big East? Of course....but not on a one & done or even a 2 for 1 deal.

Are you happy with your schedule? You really get to see some great powerhouses coming into Wichita during the OOC schedule! :noexpression:

Our scheduling philosophy has worked very well as the Salukis are one of only 16 teams (I believe its 16...but that number might be off by 1 or 2) to have played in the last 5 NCAA tournaments.

Developing a schedule filled with quality opponents that can give us a contested battle everytime is much preferable than taking on a few "powerhouses" on the road and a bunch of cupcakes at home.
First off, our schedule is not complete, with 2 home slates I believe remaining.
Secondly, according to a calculator 10 +2 and 6 +6 both add up to 12. It all evens out. The only difference is if WSU can win a game at LSU or Syracuse, it's gonna look wayyy more impressive than a home win vs. Murray State or St. Louis. Sometimes you have ta go out on a limb... Again, The Valley is not equal to the Big East.

[rjl]

Wrong enough to get us to 5 straight NCAA tournaments...give me a break.

And I'm not jealous at all.....if we wanted games like this, we could have them right and left. In fact, we had an offer to play North Carolina last year on ESPN and turned it down.

If we had taken that game, I would have been even more upset because I personally wouldn't want to be a fan of a school which was whoring out the league.

Yes, you've gotten into NCAA's. But look who you've been matched up against.

The problem is that you've gotten in by winning the valley season or tournament, but because the comittee isn't impressed with your schedule, you get seeded 10+.

Now you, I, and everyone else in the Valley know you were good enough to get seeded a 5 or a 6, but the committee didn't.

That could have made all the difference to SIU teams of the past losing their first game, or getting to the sweet 16.

I think there are 3 or 4 Valley teams that can EXPECT to get in the dance this year. Now we've got to try to be positioned better once we're in there.

[WuDrWu]

CU fans have to like this comment especially with some of the Shocker fans calling their arena the "Quiet Center"

Trinks (Newton, MA): Kyle, in your opinion, which mid-major schools have the most rabid fan base?

Kyle Whelliston: (4:15 PM ET ) Anyone in the MVC qualifies, and the CAA is catching up quickly. Some of the smaller leagues still only draw a few thousand (or less), but the Big Idea is that with more coverage, more people will care. But as it stands now, I've never seen a crazier pack of yahoos than at Creighton games. League of their own.

LOFL. Kyle may know a lot about basketball, but SIU is far, far, far crazier place than CU in our conference. That comment really has no basis. Completely uninformed.

[DawgieStyle]

you know what I say....who cares. Let each team schedule who they want, don't worry about the other guys. Take care of your own business and it will all work out in the end. It doesn't really matter anyways. Proof last year that you don't know which teams will be good or which ones will be bad and how that will affect your RPI. Play your games, win your games, and let the selection committee figure it out. That's what they are there for.

[dean_siu]

First off, our schedule is not complete, with 2 home slates I believe remaining.
Secondly, according to a calculator 10 +2 and 6 +6 both add up to 12. It all evens out. The only difference is if WSU can win a game at LSU or Syracuse, it's gonna look wayyy more impressive than a home win vs. Murray State or St. Louis. Sometimes you have ta go out on a limb... Again, The Valley is not equal to the Big East.

But if you're most impressive win OOC is against UMKC (a good possibility), it doesn't look good for you or the Valley.

Making the tournament should be determined by performance over the long haul....not by the outcome of one or two games.

BTW....SIU still has the chance for quality wins against Indiana and Arkansas (2 teams that may look stronger than LSU and Syracuse at the end of the year)

[WSUbballer]

But if you're most impressive win OOC is against UMKC (a good possibility), it doesn't look good for you or the Valley.

Making the tournament should be determined by performance over the long haul....not by the outcome of one or two games.

BTW....SIU still has the chance for quality wins against Indiana and Arkansas (2 teams that may long stronger than LSU and Syracuse at the end of the year)
You kindly left out New Mexico and K-state/USC. If WSU doesn't win one out of those 4 games, then you're right, it won't look good for WSU or the Valley. But at least WSU has a chance to go out and try to prove itself.

[MSNSaluki]

It could also be argued that CU and SIU are now benefitting from WSU and Bradley's success last year.

You could argue that, but not very well.

I think what SIU and CU have accomplished in the past 5-10 years trancends what Wichita State and Bradley did last year. I'm not trashing you here, Royal, but I still think there are 8 programs in the Valley who owe a HUUUUUUUGE debt of gratitude to SIU and Creighton for putting the league back in the national spotlight. Wichita State and Bradley took advantage of their opportunity.

On the other hand, SIU and Creighton probably are getting a little more preseason publicity than normal due to the runs of Wichita State and Bradley last year (Creighton ranked No. 9 by FOX? SIU ranked No. 10 by Sports Illustrated?) so there is some merit to your thought.


I'd say the upcoming season will further cement the pillars of this league. Just an opinion.

[cuhoops]

You kindly left out New Mexico and K-state/USC. If WSU doesn't win one out of those 4 games, then you're right, it won't look good for WSU or the Valley. But at least WSU has a chance to go out and try to prove itself.

Why didn't those names come up in the other thread, bballer? USC will be good, K-state(name only, not bad) and New Mexico, well, I have no idea if they're good or not.

[LincolnJay]

You kindly left out New Mexico and K-state/USC. If WSU doesn't win one out of those 4 games, then you're right, it won't look good for WSU or the Valley. But at least WSU has a chance to go out and try to prove itself.

New Mexico has been awful and I can't believe JR Giddens alone can do anything about that. Throw that one out as a potential quality win. You gotta beat one of the others to get bang for your buck, preferably two.

[cufan]

I believe its time to stop trying to explain to WSU fans the damage they are doing. As in the practice of law, some times you have to recognize when your audience (judge or jury) does not have the mental acumen to understand the case and you have to approach trial with the knowledge that you are going to have to appeal the matter to someone with the brains to figure it out. WSU fans, enjoy your home OCC schedule. It is pretty clear to see that over the past 5 years you have one of the crappiest home non-conference schedules in the MVC (outside the bracketbuster games).

If you think this is part of playing anyone-anywhere, you are delusional or just plain stupid. Turgeon could have inked these games last March or April. He is in a corner because of scheduling the pud teams and now there are no other options out there. It is not great work that brought these games in, it is desperation.

Turgeon has scheduled you into that situation, and it will not change so long as you are willing to be a BCS *****. Good for you. I'm happy for you.

You remind me of husker football fans trying to rationalize their pathetic home non-conference games. Memorial stadium sells out at 76,000 seats a game so why bring in a good team? Lets just keep killing (well, they used to kill) bad teams and keep the fans coming back.

And the jealosy thing is kind of cliche, don't you think. Sure I was jealous watching you make the run last spring. But, to suggest anyone, particularly CU or SIU, is jealous about your schedule is laughable.

[WSUbballer]

[QUOTE=cufan But, to suggest anyone, particularly CU or SIU, is jealous about your schedule is laughable.[/QUOTE]
Will you be jealous if WSU wins one or both of those games?

[dean_siu]

New Mexico has been awful and I can't believe JR Giddens alone can do anything about that. Throw that one out as a potential quality win. You gotta beat one of the others to get bang for your buck, preferably two.

New Mexico probably would be a worse win than UMKC....which makes the game against USC / Kansas State so crucial.

As losses to LSU and Syracuse are likely (they are on the road and will be underdogs in Vegas), WSU could have a winning record but an RPI of 150+ entering conference play if they lose the game against USC / Kansas State.

[dean_siu]

Will you be jealous if WSU wins one or both of those games?

Absolutely not....I'm confident that SIU could possibly win both those games as well.

However, just because you can be a whore doesn't mean you should be a whore.

[rjl]

I believe its time to stop trying to explain to WSU fans the damage they are doing. As in the practice of law, some times you have to recognize when your audience (judge or jury) does not have the mental acumen to understand the case and you have to approach trial with the knowledge that you are going to have to appeal the matter to someone with the brains to figure it out. WSU fans, enjoy your home OCC schedule. It is pretty clear to see that over the past 5 years you have one of the crappiest home non-conference schedules in the MVC (outside the bracketbuster games).

If you think this is part of playing anyone-anywhere, you are delusional or just plain stupid. Turgeon could have inked these games last March or April. He is in a corner because of scheduling the pud teams and now there are no other options out there. It is not great work that brought these games in, it is desperation.

Turgeon has scheduled you into that situation, and it will not change so long as you are willing to be a BCS *****. Good for you. I'm happy for you.

You remind me of husker football fans trying to rationalize their pathetic home non-conference games. Memorial stadium sells out at 76,000 seats a game so why bring in a good team? Lets just keep killing (well, they used to kill) bad teams and keep the fans coming back.

And the jealosy thing is kind of cliche, don't you think. Sure I was jealous watching you make the run last spring. But, to suggest anyone, particularly CU or SIU, is jealous about your schedule is laughable.

cufan attempts to make himself feel better by belittling the intelligence of his opposition.

Isn't that the lowest, grade-school yard level of debate?

How pathetic.

OK, cufan. Creighton has been using it's scheduling philosophy for the last decade or so. A decade in which it's achieved a very high level of non-BCS basketball notoriety.

And what has this philosophy yeilded them as far as their schedule is concerned?

ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.

Sorry to say, it has given you zilch. I wish it would work, but it doesn't. There isn't a single team in the realm of college basketball that it has worked for. You are religiously revolving your philosophy around a failing theory.

WSU is choosing a proven route, that of Gonzaga.

Now, it's up for debate which one is better. But I'm going to go with the team that is willing to play a few unbalanced series to get the respect it deserves over the team that demands respect from the get-go from an audience of people who don't care.

[WSUbballer]

Absolutely not....I'm confident that SIU could possibly win both those games as well.

However, just because you can be a whore doesn't mean you should be a whore.
If being a whore gets you into the NCAA tournament, I guess you gotta do what you gotta do...that is the ultimate goal, right?

[jt45]

Absolutely not....I'm confident that SIU could possibly win both those games as well.

However, just because you can be a whore doesn't mean you should be a whore.
LMAO.....sounds like good advice!

[RoyalShock]

I believe its time to stop trying to explain to WSU fans the damage they are doing. As in the practice of law, some times you have to recognize when your audience (judge or jury) does not have the mental acumen to understand the case and you have to approach trial with the knowledge that you are going to have to appeal the matter to someone with the brains to figure it out. WSU fans, enjoy your home OCC schedule. It is pretty clear to see that over the past 5 years you have one of the crappiest home non-conference schedules in the MVC (outside the bracketbuster games).

If you think this is part of playing anyone-anywhere, you are delusional or just plain stupid. Turgeon could have inked these games last March or April. He is in a corner because of scheduling the pud teams and now there are no other options out there. It is not great work that brought these games in, it is desperation.

Turgeon has scheduled you into that situation, and it will not change so long as you are willing to be a BCS *****. Good for you. I'm happy for you.

You remind me of husker football fans trying to rationalize their pathetic home non-conference games. Memorial stadium sells out at 76,000 seats a game so why bring in a good team? Lets just keep killing (well, they used to kill) bad teams and keep the fans coming back.

And the jealosy thing is kind of cliche, don't you think. Sure I was jealous watching you make the run last spring. But, to suggest anyone, particularly CU or SIU, is jealous about your schedule is laughable.

This post helps give creedence to what I've said earlier in this topic.

It seems to me that it's the CU and select SIU fans who are too close-minded to consider that there might be a better scheduling philosophy than the one their coaches have employed.

Since I'm already out on a limb, I would argue that getting 3, then 4 teams into the dance the past two years is primarily due to UNI's willingness to "whore" themselves to Cincinatti (a loss, nonetheless) and LSU (a home game for LSU that, if similar to many early season tournament formats, may have been considered a "first round cupcake" game). So maybe UNI was on to something.

I will re-iterate that I think CU and SIU have done great things for the Valley. But that doesn't mean there aren't better ways to continue the Valley's rise than the Bluejay and Saluki "way". How about we see how things shake out before lobbing hand grenades?

[WSUbballer]

Very good points Royal..
I might add one buy-out game for WSU has little impact on SIU and CU scheduling. It's the simple fact that a BCS team does not wanna come on any Valley team's home floor per 1 for 1. It's the same reason a Valley team won't go to Savannah State or Arkansas-Pine Bluff for a game. Again, that's life.

[WuDrWu]

I love how all of a sudden WSU has to win at Syracuse and LSU (where a total of maybe 2 non bcs teams have won in the last decade) to even begin to "redeem" their recent success.

Praytell....what does CU have to do?

Whine?


CU fans are rapidly losing all credibility here. Most SIU are not.

[dean_siu]

If being a whore gets you into the NCAA tournament, I guess you gotta do what you gotta do...that is the ultimate goal, right?

I think SIU and Creighton have both proved that its not neccessary to whore yourself out in order to make the tournament.

Besides....if you're daughter (if you have one) had to become a prostitute in order to pay for college, would you still be happy about it?

[WSUbballer]

I think SIU and Creighton have both proved that its not neccessary to whore yourself out in order to make the tournament.

Besides....if you're daughter (if you have one) had to become a prostitute in order to pay for college, would you still be happy about it?
I'm 23...so still daughterless..but of course I wouldn't be happy. But could I ultimately decide what she does and what she doesn't do? Nope, so I deal with it.

[dean_siu]

Very good points Royal..
I might add one buy-out game for WSU has little impact on SIU and CU scheduling. It's the simple fact that a BCS team does not wanna come on any Valley team's home floor per 1 for 1. It's the same reason a Valley team won't go to Savannah State or Arkansas-Pine Bluff for a game. Again, that's life.

I would disagree with this statement as well.....I bet BcS schools are calling SIU today attempting to get one of our open dates and beginning their argument with the line "Wichita State did it....so you should too"

[RoyalShock]

I think SIU and Creighton have both proved that its not neccessary to whore yourself out in order to make the tournament.

Besides....if you're daughter (if you have one) had to become a prostitute in order to pay for college, would you still be happy about it?

Maybe just making the tournament is no longer the goal. And that is where I think our positions diverge to the point we will have to agree to disagree.

[RoyalShock]

To add to my previous post.

We say we aspire to be like the "big boys", yet we're just satisfied to be in the tournament.

Ask Syracuse, LSU, Kansas, Michigan St, et. al. if that is their goal.

[rjl]

CU and SIU have gotten in the tournament mostly from either winning the valley regular season or the valley tournament. Their OOC schedule has nothing to do with that.

And, when they're in the tournament, they've been seeded 9, 10 or higher.

As far as attracting quality 1 and 1's, their scheduling theory has never proven itself.

[MSNSaluki]

This post helps give creedence to what I've said earlier in this topic.

It seems to me that it's the CU and select SIU fans who are too close-minded to consider that there might be a better scheduling philosophy than the one their coaches have employed.

Since I'm already out on a limb, I would argue that getting 3, then 4 teams into the dance the past two years is primarily due to UNI's willingness to "whore" themselves to Cincinatti (a loss, nonetheless) and LSU (a home game for LSU that, if similar to many early season tournament formats, may have been considered a "first round cupcake" game). So maybe UNI was on to something.

I will re-iterate that I think CU and SIU have done great things for the Valley. But that doesn't mean there aren't better ways to continue the Valley's rise than the Bluejay and Saluki "way". How about we see how things shake out before lobbing hand grenades?

I'm the one out on a limb here, Royal.

Not only am I praising Wichita State and Bradley and UNI for having the balls to schedule BCS schools on less-than-favorable terms:clap: , I'm militant in my belief that SIU and Creighton deserve more credit for the Valley's success than what they get.

That's a combo for ya!:yes:

So in summary, while SIU and Creighton should be thanked more for helping the Valley achieve the publicity it's getting today, Lowery and Altman should show more balls and try and take those two programs to yet another level by scheduling BCS teams, even if it means signing a bad deal or two.

[WSUbballer]

I would disagree with this statement as well.....I bet BcS schools are calling SIU today attempting to get one of our open dates and beginning their argument with the line "Wichita State did it....so you should too"
I personally don't think a team is gonna bring up another team's scheduling philosophy in their own discussion of scheduling (even of the same conference).
How far do you draw the line? Is George Mason a whore for playing a one and done at Duke? It's a part of college basketball. Certain teams have more leverage than others. This isn't the NFL..
When you try and try to get 1 and 1's with higher level teams and you can't get the deal done, the only thing left to do (if you wanna play a high level team) is beat em at their own game. Win on their home court and gain more exposure and respectiblity. Otherwise, you have a schedule filled with regular joes and ho-hums that may be average RPI, but does sh** if you win. (Insert last year's CU schedule here)

[JBizLN]

cufan attempts to make himself feel better by belittling the intelligence of his opposition.

Isn't that the lowest, grade-school yard level of debate?

How pathetic.



That's true. It is pretty low. Probably the only thing lower than that is a frequent reoccurrence of sophomoric, unfunny testicle jokes.

[RoyalShock]

I'm the one out on a limb here, Royal.

Not only am I praising Wichita State and Bradley and UNI for having the balls to schedule BCS schools on less-than-favorable terms:clap: , I'm militant in my belief that SIU and Creighton deserve more credit for the Valley's success than what they get.

That's a combo for ya!:yes:

So in summary, while SIU and Creighton should be thanked more for helping the Valley achieve the publicity it's getting today, Lowery and Altman should show more balls and try and take those two programs to yet another level by scheduling BCS teams, even if it means signing a bad deal or two.

And props to you for going against the grain!

I think CU and SIU have gotten PLENTY of credit the past several years by everyone (except for maybe 2 WSU fans). But at what point is it ok for someone else (say, WSU, UNI, or BU) to step in and say "here we are and we're ready to help (or, God forbid, lead)"?

This whole "bow down to CU and SIU" was fine for awhile, but there are new players in the game, also deserving of credit.

[WuDrWu]

New Mexico probably would be a worse win than UMKC....which makes the game against USC / Kansas State so crucial.

As losses to LSU and Syracuse are likely (they are on the road and will be underdogs in Vegas), WSU could have a winning record but an RPI of 150+ entering conference play if they lose the game against USC / Kansas State.


Dean, pardon me, but shut your trap. New Mexico was 17-13 last year in the MWC with wins over Oregon, Mississippi, UTEP, Utah, Air Force, New Mexico State and Wyoming and lost at top 20 Washington by just 10. They are hardly UMKC. Silence is golden, stick to things you KNOW about and don't guess so much.

[TrueBlueJay]

If being a whore gets you into the NCAA tournament, I guess you gotta do what you gotta do...that is the ultimate goal, right?

You can get there by cheating too - as your school well knows. Doesn't mean it is the right thing to do.

Go Wichita Cream Puffs - Beat Syracuse

[MSNSaluki]

And props to you for going against the grain!

I think CU and SIU have gotten PLENTY of credit the past several years by everyone (except for maybe 2 WSU fans). But at what point is it ok for someone else (say, WSU, UNI, or BU) to step in and say "here we are and we're ready to help (or, God forbid, lead)"?

This whole "bow down to CU and SIU" was fine for awhile, but there are new players in the game, also deserving of credit.

I'm all for EVERYBODY in the Valley sharing the wealth. Except when they play at SIU.:yes:
And pray tell, what two WSU fans are you referring to?:original: Never mind ... I know.

:valley:

[Dawgbit]

WSU has taken a giant step backward, and has dragged the rest of the MVC with it. Heck, Tennessee-Martin, of the OVC, regularly plays teams like Duke, Illinois, etc. in one-and-dones. Nice to know that WSU's standards dovetail with the OVC Conference.

Turgeon is a great pimp.:no:

[UE-BBALL#1]

The problem I see is that teams in the MVC have proven over the last couple of years that the RPI game can be won against the big boys by minimizing rpi killer games and scheduling a lot of good mid major teams, whose rpi's improve once conference play starts. To me, it seems like WSU is scheduling like some of the BCS teams who complain when they get left out of the tournament. The non-conference schedule is pretty much centered around 2-3 games against high quality opponents, and then a bunch of crappy teams fill out the schedule. The problem with this is only if WSU loses games against SU and LSU like they will be expected to do, it may hurt them when they don't have any other wins to bring up the RPI. Granted this is assuming that the last couple spots on the schedule are filled with low-major teams, which often happens late in the summer. I think that WSU should be hoping that those last spots are filled with some solid mid-major teams that WSU will be favored to win in, as opposed to being an underdog against a BCS team.

[LincolnJay]

The problem I see is that teams in the MVC have proven over the last couple of years that the RPI game can be won against the big boys by minimizing rpi killer games and scheduling a lot of good mid major teams, whose rpi's improve once conference play starts. To me, it seems like WSU is scheduling like some of the BCS teams who complain when they get left out of the tournament. The non-conference schedule is pretty much centered around 2-3 games against high quality opponents, and then a bunch of crappy teams fill out the schedule. The problem with this is only if WSU loses games against SU and LSU like they will be expected to do, it may hurt them when they don't have any other wins to bring up the RPI. Granted this is assuming that the last couple spots on the schedule are filled with low-major teams, which often happens late in the summer. I think that WSU should be hoping that those last spots are filled with some solid mid-major teams that WSU will be favored to win in, as opposed to being an underdog against a BCS team.

Now you stop that right now - stop making sense like that - it's just not the right thing to do on VT.

[Aces101]

To Aces fans:

Does anyone know if Mizzou will be coming to play here in E'Ville next season? Was that deal a one and done or is there a return game involved? I despise the one and done concept and am happy that the Aces did not play teams like Kentucky and/or Notre Dame on a one and done basis (as was rumored in the newspaper a month or so ago).

I am happy they filled out their schedule with teams like Butler, Valparaiso, and the tourney that also has Buffalo, Wright State, and Miami (FL). It is a good idea for mid majors to play other mid major teams to create that divide between the MVC and the other midmajors. If the Aces can knock off teams like Butler, Western KY, Buffalo, etc. they can help create that gap between the MVC and the other midmajors. That is how you bring up the conference RPI. Playing teams like Miami (FL) at home and a game at Mizzou (rebuilding) are smart decisions. Those are winnable games this year.

[Jayfan]

never seen a crazier pack of yahoos than at Creighton games. League of their own.[/B]


Hmmm... Can't wait till we actually get loud, when we pack in 17,500.:jays:

[Jayfan]

Of course Creighton would win the prize as best "crazy pack of yahoos"
Here's what Kyle said in 2005 about the more knowledgable fans of the league ...


KW: I've really gotten an education in the MVC. I've lived on the East Coast most of my life. I went to school at Oregon, The Pit, so I saw a lot of Pac-10 games. The middle of the country was my gap. I'm impressed with the fans from Bradley, Southern Illinois and Wichita State. I mean 20-year-old kids who can name rosters from way back.

http://www.sports-central.org/sports/2005/01/27/sc_interviews_a_man_of_100_games.php


Maybe i missed his point but he said your kids could name players from the past. Hmmm. Seems to hold true. Always living in the past!

[user1]

It's really frustrating to see teams like Creighton and SIU build up this league by having standards....only to see the teams which rode their coat tails (Bradley and WSU) turn around and whore out the league for a quick buck.

Sorry--just can't let this comment lie there,,,
just what has Bradley done to "whore out the league" as you suggest?

Bradley was helping build the prestige of the MVC long before Creighton and SIU were ever in the Valley.

And they, along with the Shockers, did it again last year in what turned out to be the VERY strongest season in the Valley in recent memory.

Tell me, just how much "building up" was SIU doing when they went to Alaska last year and lost to a laughably weak eastern team and a D-II?
Right about that same time, Bradley was beating DePaul.

And how much help was it for the Valley, that right after Bradley whups DePaul by 15, that Creighton goes up there and loses by 15?

And what an amazing hypocrite you are to call out WSU for going to play a Big East team...when that's exactly what Creighton did last year with DePaul.
I don't see a return game on the schedule this year!
Why did Creighton "whore" themselves to play a guarantee game last year against DePaul (who certainly are NOT Syracuse!)

You must be under 21 if you can't recall all the great tradition Wichita and Bradley have given to the MVC.
If you think the whole Valley revolves around CU and SIU then I hope you hang around long enough to admit how incredibly wrong you are.
CU and SIU are lapping up the benefits that Bradley and WSU handed the MVC this past season (as well as cashing on the big revenue), so don't make me laugh.

[dean_siu]

Dean, pardon me, but shut your trap. New Mexico was 17-13 last year in the MWC with wins over Oregon, Mississippi, UTEP, Utah, Air Force, New Mexico State and Wyoming and lost at top 20 Washington by just 10. They are hardly UMKC. Silence is golden, stick to things you KNOW about and don't guess so much.


And New Mexico lost their 2 top scorers, 3 of their top 5, and over 50% of their offense....meanwhile, UMKC returns everyone from a 14-14 team.

I'm not saying UMKC is a tournament worthy team...but I think they will be better than New Mexico in 2006-2007.

Just another case of a WSU fan talking smack without the facts.....you should be the one to shut your trap.

[dawg_tired nemesis]

And let me remind everyone on here that the reason the valley had such high rpi's last year to start league play was because the valley played and beat some bcs teams on the road. The ncaa adjusted the rpi to give more points for road wins and thats how the mvc caught and passed the bcs teams. Last year WSU played Illinois and Michigan State, this year they play 2 more top 20 teams on the road or neutral sites. And while listening to selection sunday the broadcasters repeatedly reminded everyone of who they played. There was no mention of other valley schools, just the bcs schools. I'm not fond of 1 and dones but WSU has to play the bigs to get in the tourney. WSU finished 2nd the year before in the valley, but didn't make the ncaas. So I am ok with 1 or 2 one and dones. And if CU and SIu can't pull off a 1 for 1 with a top 20 team then how is every other valley teams supposed to make it happen?

[dean_siu]

Sorry--just can't let this comment lie there,,,
just what has Bradley done to "whore out the league" as you suggest?

Bradley was helping build the prestige of the MVC long before Creighton and SIU were ever in the Valley.

And they, along with the Shockers, did it again last year in what turned out to be the VERY strongest season in the Valley in recent memory.

Tell me, just how much "building up" was SIU doing when they went to Alaska last year and lost to a laughably weak eastern team and a D-II?
Right about that same time, Bradley was beating DePaul.

And how much help was it for the Valley, that right after Bradley whups DePaul by 15, that Creighton goes up there and loses by 15?

And what an amazing hypocrite you are to call out WSU for going to play a Big East team...when that's exactly what Creighton did last year with DePaul.
I don't see a return game on the schedule this year!
Why did Creighton "whore" themselves to play a guarantee game last year against DePaul (who certainly are NOT Syracuse!)

You must be under 21 if you can't recall all the great tradition Wichita and Bradley have given to the MVC.
If you think the whole Valley revolves around CU and SIU then I hope you hang around long enough to admit how incredibly wrong you are.
CU and SIU are lapping up the benefits that Bradley and WSU handed the MVC this past season (as well as cashing on the big revenue), so don't make me laugh.

I admit that Bradley had some great teams in the past and I applaud them for that....however, I think the Valley as a whole is at an all time high as a league (at least within the last 20 years or so) and we as a league should uphold some high standards with scheduling and other aspects.

Although I don't have as big of a problem with the deals Bradley has made (compared to this horrible deal WSU made with Syracuse), I don't believe the Iowa State or Michigan State deals are good for the league (or for Bradley) at all.

I don't know the specifics of the Creighton-DePaul contract...but if this was a one and done, they are almost as guilty (however, the Valley would not have had as high of profile at that point as they do today which makes somewhat of a difference).

I also don't think the Valley revolves around Creighton and SIU (and don't want this to be a 2 team league).....however, if this conference is to be regarded as one of the top conferences in the country (as it should be after last year), than we should act accordingly. Taking these BS deals is basically saying "last year was a fluke", "continue to treat us as second class", and "we're going to cash in while we have the chance".

CU and SIU are not reaping very few benefits from WSU and Bradley....especially compared to the benefits the rest of the league reaped from us during the last 5-6 years.

The deals being cut by both WSU and Bradley (especially by the Shockers) is causing way more damage to league members than anything we may gain by your postseason runs last year.

It just puzzles me that when that the leauge should be acting like a top tier conference....we are instead acting like second class citizens and bowing down to other programs demands in order to secure games.

I just don't want to hear any fans of these teams complain about lack of respect at any point this season as the actions of your own school have created that perception.

[LincolnJay]

DePaul comes to Omaha next year. 17,500 for that one.

[dean_siu]

And let me remind everyone on here that the reason the valley had such high rpi's last year to start league play was because the valley played and beat some bcs teams on the road. The ncaa adjusted the rpi to give more points for road wins and thats how the mvc caught and passed the bcs teams. Last year WSU played Illinois and Michigan State, this year they play 2 more top 20 teams on the road or neutral sites. And while listening to selection sunday the broadcasters repeatedly reminded everyone of who they played. There was no mention of other valley schools, just the bcs schools. I'm not fond of 1 and dones but WSU has to play the bigs to get in the tourney. WSU finished 2nd the year before in the valley, but didn't make the ncaas. So I am ok with 1 or 2 one and dones. And if CU and SIu can't pull off a 1 for 1 with a top 20 team then how is every other valley teams supposed to make it happen?


WSU didn't get in the tourney by losing to Illinois and Michigan State. It also didn't get into the dance by beating Delaware State or Texas Pan American. It got into the dance because it won the Valley....a league that had several of its members secure high RPI's in OOC games through effective scheduling. If everyone scheduled a road game (or two) against strong teams and filled the remainder of their slate against BS teams (instead of BcS)....the MVC would likely be a one bid conference. Thank the other schools in the league for making sure you got a bid...don't attribute it to your losses at MSU and against Illinois.

[dawg_tired nemesis]

dean, you do realize Indiana has a buy out clause for next years game at SIU. It doesn't look as bad as a 1 and done but is actually worse. Like having a one night stand and telling her you will call her tomorrow. I hope IU doesn't back out because I would love for them to experience SIU at carbondale but I would bet it won't happen. :valley:

[dean_siu]

DePaul comes to Omaha next year. 17,500 for that one.

Thank you....I had a feeling that wasn't a one and done (or 2 for 1) as Creighton has shown some standards in their scheduling.

[dean_siu]

dean, you do realize Indiana has a buy out clause for next years game at SIU. It doesn't look as bad as a 1 and done but is actually worse. Like having a one night stand and telling her you will call her tomorrow. I hope IU doesn't back out because I would love for them to experience SIU at carbondale but I would bet it won't happen. :valley:


Do you realize every multi year contract in college basketball has a buy out clause? Fortunately, with the SIU-Indiana contract, this buyout is substational (I don't know the exact amount...but it has been labeled as large). I'll be very surprised if this contract is not fulfilled....this is not a one and done contract.....a two for one contract.....or anything else which is negotiated with substandard programs. This is a typical contract between 2 college basketball programs respected around the country (although it wouldn't have happened if we had a history of doing one and dones)

[WSUbballer]

To all the Creighton and Southern Illinois fans that know alot about their scheduling:
Please name all the BCS schools that have come to your place for a home game over the past...let's say 10 years. Is it just me or have I yet to see your scheduling philosophies play out yet? Maybe, you're satisfied with the Murray States, the Central Michigans, and the Daytons of the world to fill your schedules.

[barkeep1967]

Maybe, you're satisfied with the Murray States, the Central Michigans, and the Daytons of the world to fill your schedules.

Make the tournament more than once in a row and then you can comment on anybodys schedule. SIU has had UNC Charlotte,Indiana and MIssouri( not sure on the year but it's close) in the last ten years.

They have been to 6 straight NCAA tournament and it will be seven without whoring themselves out. I have tried to be nice but the shucks fans are getting old fast. If WSU gets blasted by LSU( probable) and SYracuse( #2 recruiting class in the country). What does that do?



Here is a little hard to swallow fact. WSU has not been jack for 20 years. SIU,Bradley,Creighton built this wave you are riding on. By giving in like none of them have ever done. You show that you are so desperate for national attention you will play anywhere. I hope you enjoyed your ride last year because unless you win the tournament you will be back wher you belong.( N.I.T)

[barkeep1967]

Do you realize every multi year contract in college basketball has a buy out clause?

I am not sure some of these shucks fans realize anyhting right now. They had their first taste of any kind of success in their lifetime and they have no clue how to handle it.


NOTE: This is not directed at all shucks fans. If you have half a brain you know who you are.

[rjl]

Make the tournament more than once in a row and then you can comment on anybodys schedule. SIU has had UNC Charlotte,Indiana and MIssouri( not sure on the year but it's close) in the last ten years.

They have been to 6 straight NCAA tournament and it will be seven without whoring themselves out. I have tried to be nice but the shucks fans are getting old fast. If WSU gets blasted by LSU( probable) and SYracuse( #2 recruiting class in the country). What does that do?



Here is a little hard to swallow fact. WSU has not been jack for 20 years. SIU,Bradley,Creighton built this wave you are riding on. By giving in like none of them have ever done. You show that you are so desperate for national attention you will play anywhere. I hope you enjoyed your ride last year because unless you win the tournament you will be back wher you belong.( N.I.T)

You've barely gotten in the tournament, only by virtue of winning the Valley regular season or Valley Tournament titles.

And you have high seeds to prove it.

If you think just getting in the NCAA tournament is enough, more power to you.

But what you are forgetting is that WSU has a history that includes being ranked in the top 10. WSU has a history that includes first team All America players. WSU has a history that includes being a nationally recognized basketball team. The 90's were an aberration, we're coming back now.

Don't worry, we know how it's done.

You've had your chance, and what do you have to show for it?

[WSUbballer]

Make the tournament more than once in a row and then you can comment on anybodys schedule. SIU has had UNC Charlotte,Indiana and MIssouri( not sure on the year but it's close) in the last ten years.

They have been to 6 straight NCAA tournament and it will be seven without whoring themselves out. I have tried to be nice but the shucks fans are getting old fast. If WSU gets blasted by LSU( probable) and SYracuse( #2 recruiting class in the country). What does that do?



Here is a little hard to swallow fact. WSU has not been jack for 20 years. SIU,Bradley,Creighton built this wave you are riding on. By giving in like none of them have ever done. You show that you are so desperate for national attention you will play anywhere. I hope you enjoyed your ride last year because unless you win the tournament you will be back wher you belong.( N.I.T)
Anyways...speaking of having or not having brains...
read my post again.
I asked what BCS schools have gone into Carbondale and Omaha during the last 10 years?
Missouri...no
Indiana...no
UNC Charlotte? So you think Conference USA is a major conference? Wow..

[Rasputin]

You've barely gotten in the tournament, only by virtue of winning the Valley regular season or Valley Tournament titles.

And you have high seeds to prove it.

If you think just getting in the NCAA tournament is enough, more power to you.

But what you are forgetting is that WSU has a history that includes being ranked in the top 10. WSU has a history that includes first team All America players. WSU has a history that includes being a nationally recognized basketball team. The 90's were an aberration, we're coming back now.

Don't worry, we know how it's done.

You've had your chance, and what do you have to show for it?


I thought history didn't matter...??? Which is it buddy? Oh I get it, history only matters if it involves WSU. Oh wait, then our total domination of WSU under MT SHOULD matter then right? You are confusing me.

:fear: Your flip-flopping is pretty scary stuff.

[barkeep1967]

Anyways...speaking of having or not having brains...
read my post again.
I asked what BCS schools have gone into Carbondale and Omaha during the last 10 years?
Missouri...no
Indiana...no
UNC Charlotte? So you think Conference USA is a major conference? Wow..
__________________


I am not going to go back and reprint schedules.

Indiana was AT Carbondale in 2002
Missouri was AT Carbondale in 1995( o.k. 11 years )


no? yes OOPS

[rjl]

I thought history didn't matter...??? Which is it buddy? Oh I get it, history only matters if it involves WSU. Oh wait, then our total domination of WSU under MT SHOULD matter then right? You are confusing me.

:fear: Your flip-flopping is pretty scary stuff.

History is all you have.

History is just a part of what we have.

[rjl]

Anyways...speaking of having or not having brains...
read my post again.
I asked what BCS schools have gone into Carbondale and Omaha during the last 10 years?
Missouri...no
Indiana...no
UNC Charlotte? So you think Conference USA is a major conference? Wow..
__________________


I am not going to go back and reprint schedules.

Indiana was AT Carbondale in 2002
Missouri was AT Carbondale in 1995( o.k. 11 years )


no? yes OOPS

And gosh, you've been "great" and in the NCAA's for so long, how bright does your scheduling future look?

Oops is right.

[WSUbballer]

Anyways...speaking of having or not having brains...
read my post again.
I asked what BCS schools have gone into Carbondale and Omaha during the last 10 years?
Missouri...no
Indiana...no
UNC Charlotte? So you think Conference USA is a major conference? Wow..
__________________


I am not going to go back and reprint schedules.

Indiana was AT Carbondale in 2002
Missouri was AT Carbondale in 1995( o.k. 11 years

no? yes OOPS
Was the Indiana game a 1 and 1?
And if so, congratulations. WSU has somehow got numerous big conference opponents into Koch over the last 10 years and yet we didn't have to give into Western Kentucky or Southeast Missouri State year after year to do so.

[Rasputin]

History is all you have.

History is just a part of what we have.

:doh: Yep, we are certainly going to suck this year.

Yup, 1 out of 20 aint bad for making the NCAAs...Thats quite a history to be proud of. :grin:

Come on rjl, let us all see how truly delusional you are! Please? Pretty please?

[barkeep1967]

And gosh, you've been "great" and in the NCAA's for so long, how bright does your scheduling future look?


Home and home with Indiana starting this year

Home and home with Washingtong starting next year

1-1 -1 starting with Illinois ( probably) starting next year.


Arkansas ESPN 2 - this year
Minnisota- ESPN 2- this year( possible)
WVA-Va Tech- ESPN 2 this year( possible)
Indiana- ESPN this year
St.Louis-EPSN- this year

your right the schedule is terrible

[barkeep1967]

A No.7 seed is "barely" getting into the tournament?
And all that proves is that SIU chokes at MVC tournament time..
__________________

3 tournament wins in the last 5 years for SIU.

2 tournament wins for WSU in the last 20 years.

Next question ?

[WSUbballer]

Home and home with Indiana starting this year

Home and home with Washingtong starting next year

1-1 -1 starting with Illinois ( probably) starting next year.


Arkansas ESPN 2 - this year
Minnisota- ESPN 2- this year( possible)
WVA-Va Tech- ESPN 2 this year( possible)
Indiana- ESPN this year
St.Louis-EPSN- this year

your right the schedule is terrible
I think you set the record for most (probablies) in a post.
And is Washingtong near Beijing?

[Rasputin]

:puke:

...one year wonder! clap clap clap clap clap ...one year wonder!

WSU has no place in bashing CU or SIU. Give it a rest.

[rjl]

:doh: Yep, we are certainly going to suck this year.

Yup, 1 out of 20 aint bad for making the NCAAs...Thats quite a history to be proud of. :grin:

Come on rjl, let us all see how truly delusional you are! Please? Pretty please?

Rasputin, your obsession with Wichita State is getting old. Seriously.

The past: before the last 10 years, Creighton was the chump of the Valley.

As it is, you've failed to finish higher than Wichita State for the last 3, you've failed to win more than one NCAA tournament game in any of your chances, but yet you all still post like your entire season is vindicated if you just beat WSU.

In fact, your whole reason for posting on Valleytalk is your attempted torment of Shocker fans. If no WSU fan ever posted, you'd have absolutely nothing to say here. That, Rasputin, is a sick obsession. That borders on mentally ill. That makes you look like a complete stalking blue nut-gnat.

Keep posting. You make yourself look like a bigger and bigger idiot every time.

[barkeep1967]

winning the Valley regular season or Valley Tournament titles

A No.7 seed is "barely" getting into the tournament?

One of these things is not like the other thing one of these things just dosen't belong.

Jesus Christ at least CLOD is intelligent

[WSUbballer]

A No.7 seed is "barely" getting into the tournament?
And all that proves is that SIU chokes at MVC tournament time..
__________________

3 tournament wins in the last 5 years for SIU.

2 tournament wins for WSU in the last 20 years.

Next question ?
Ignoring the question is answering it?
Cool.

[RoyalShock]

How the heck did Bradley "build this wave?". Besides this year, have they had either consecutive years or a deep run in the tourney in the past decade? If not, then they haven't done any more than WSU.

The rules to the scheduling game were created and enforced by the top BCS teams, like it or not. And you can either play by those rules or continue doing it your own way in hopes of that one big series you may get every five years or so. Gonzaga chose to play by the rules of the BCSers and have been able to transcend the glass ceiling.

I will say it again. Thanks to CU and SIU (and UNI) for getting the Valley to where it was before this past season. But now it's time to share the spotlight and the credit. And don't hate on WSU or BU because they are trying to stay in the spotlight by playing top teams, even if you think it hurts the Valley.

There seems to be a lot of insiders on the board today who have been listening in on their coach's calls to the BCS teams. The real facts are that we have no idea how BU's and WSU's scheduling will affect the Valley. But I guess some of you are too close-minded to think that there might be a better strategy than the "Altman-Lowery Way."

I have still yet to hear criticism for UNI's "whoring" to Cincinatti and LSU (and yes, that was tantamount to one-and-done because it was a carefully considered and calculated risk by UNI and Elgin to play in a tournament for the chance to play AT LSU, not a nuetral site like the WSU-Illinois game last year.) And you know why no one is criticizing them? Because it can be argued that those games are major reasons the Valley got 3 and 4 teams in the tournament the past two years.

And another aspect to consider is the same thing we "mid" fans try to use to convince BCS fans their teams should play us: preparation for future games! Playing these teams on the road will really prepare WSU and BU not just for Valley play, but for the post-season. I fully believe that by nearly beating Illinois and playing Michigan State, the Shocks elevated their game to go 14-4 in conference and then beat Seton Hall and Tennessee.

[WSUbballer]

:puke:

...one year wonder! clap clap clap clap clap ...one year wonder!

WSU has no place in bashing CU or SIU. Give it a rest.
Thank you for reading the future Nostrodomus. Now, I know not to care about the next 5 years ahead from now.

[Rasputin]

Rasputin, your obsession with Wichita State is getting old. Seriously.

The past: before the last 10 years, Creighton was the chump of the Valley.

As it is, you've failed to finish higher than Wichita State for the last 3, you've failed to win more than one NCAA tournament game in any of your chances, but yet you all still post like your entire season is vindicated if you just beat WSU.

In fact, your whole reason for posting on Valleytalk is your attempted torment of Shocker fans. If no WSU fan ever posted, you'd have absolutely nothing to say here. That, Rasputin, is a sick obsession. That borders on mentally ill. That makes you look like a complete stalking blue nut-gnat.

Keep posting. You make yourself look like a bigger and bigger idiot every time.

Nobody is obssessed with you. You are obsessed with yourselves, plain and simple. If I were to obsess about somebody it certainly wouldn't be WSU (you would love that though, wouldn't ya?) it would be SIU...We need to figure out how to beat those guys! :ranting: We already know how to beat you. :naughty:

Arrogance, ignorance...it's a great day to be a Shucker!

[RoyalShock]

:puke:

...one year wonder! clap clap clap clap clap ...one year wonder!

WSU has no place in bashing CU or SIU. Give it a rest.

But SIU and CU do have the place to bash WSU for a schedule of which has not yet been played and as such it's impact can not be assessed?

[barkeep1967]

Ignoring the question is answering it?

Not ignoring anything.

A 7 seed is a solid bid. A 12 seed is barely making it.


Ignoring the fact that SIU has more tournament wins in the last 5 years than WSU has in the last 20?

NEWS FLASH: A Valley regular season champion isn't a guarantee of a NCAA tournament bid, therefore it's technically an "at large" bid. Only the Valley Tournament champ is guaranteed to be in the Tourney.


In SIU 6 straight years. In WSU 1 straight year. :no:


Royal you know I respect you and I am not going to argue with you. My comment about was a bit mis guided. Still the fact remains ALOT of your fellow WSU fans are in here slamming SIU and CU. Those 2 teams are why the Valley is where it is right now period.

[UE-BBALL#1]

I hope you guys are all just college students because most of this argument is unhumorous and immature. WSU fans, you can't bash on SIU and CU's schedules and lack of BCS teams. The FACT is, those two schools have scheduled the way they have needed to in order to get in the NCAA tournament. These schools have found that instead of selling themselves to play big name teams on the road, they can achieve the same goal by consistently scheduling quality mid major teams in home and home series. While this philosophy doesn't bring any BCS type games to SIU or CU's home arena, neither does WSU's.

In actuality, I believe SIU and CU's approach is going to work out better than what WSU is trying to do. Wichita is going to be in a lot of trouble, IMO, if they lose both of these games against Syracuse and LSU on the road. The rest of the schedule is one of the worst in the conference, and I don't think WSU will get much of an RPI boost with losses to big teams to overcome the low RPI of the other teams they have on the schedule. Hopefully WSU pulls one of these big games out on the road so it doesn't have any negative effects.

There is really no validity to ripping SIU or CU and their scheduling because one cannot argue with the FACT that it has worked in achieving the goal that every team in our conference sets out at the beginning of the year. If you want a schedule to rip, try MSU, who saw themselves left out in the cold with the 2 highest RPIs in NCAA history to be left out of the tournament.

The problem I have with Wichita's strategy is that they gain about nothing out of this game with Syracuse if they lose. Sure, you can say that it may be televised or that recruits will look at it, but I've watched many BCS teams play mid-majors on national tv and I rarely remember the performances. At least when scheduling a home and home or a 2 for 1, the team gets something out of it and can bring an exciting game to the fans in a home arena. I think that would do a lot more to bring publicity to the Valley, as it isn't widely acknowledged the type of fanbases that our schools have.

[WSUbballer]

Nobody is obssessed with you. You are obsessed with yourselves, plain and simple. If I were to obsess about somebody it certainly wouldn't be WSU (you would love that though, wouldn't ya?) it would be SIU...We need to figure out how to beat those guys! :ranting: We already know how to beat you. :naughty:

Arrogance, ignorance...it's a great day to be a Shucker!
Going into WSU threads for 3 weeks straight and posting in direct contact with anything WSU or Wichita related, in my mind, would be considered obsessive. Maybe to disprove my point, would you care just simply not to comment in a WSU related topic, for say a week? Put your money where your mouth is?

A little FYI, apparently you didn't quite figure out how to stop lil Matt Brauer.

[Rasputin]

But SIU and CU do have the place to bash WSU for a schedule of which has not yet been played and as such it's impact can not be assessed?

I am not saying that...I am saying that I (and obviously many others) think WSU scheduling move was a step backward. If you lose those games, you guys better hope you win the MVC, cuz with your current home non-con games, you will be heading to the NIT. You have been put into a situation that you better win or else.

[rjl]

Nobody is obssessed with you. You are obsessed with yourselves, plain and simple. If I were to obsess about somebody it certainly wouldn't be WSU (you would love that though, wouldn't ya?) it would be SIU...We need to figure out how to beat those guys! :ranting: We already know how to beat you. :naughty:

Arrogance, ignorance...it's a great day to be a Shucker!

So, the fact that you post attempted grade-school insults in EVERY thread that has to do with WSU is evidence of.... your non-obsession with WSU?

Dude. You are sooo jealous of us. You're acting like a little school girl now. All that's left is for you to stick out your tounge and say "I know you are but what am I".

What is the sweet 16 like? You wouldn't know. What's it like to make it to the Sweet 16, only to follow it up the next year with a team that's even better? You wouldn't know. What's it like to play teams of the caliber of LSU and Syracuse in your non-conference schedule this year? You wouldn't know.

The fact is, you don't know what it's like to be us, Rasputin. Sorry, you can't join the club. Our happiness doesn't depend on dominance over any one team, our happiness depends on being a successfull basketball team over the course of an entire season.

But one-pump-chumpin must suit many Creighton fans just fine...

[Rasputin]

Going into WSU threads for 3 weeks straight and posting in direct contact with anything WSU or Wichita related, in my mind, would be considered obsessive. Maybe to disprove my point, would you care just simply not to comment in a WSU related topic, for say a week? Put your money where your mouth is?

A little FYI, apparently you didn't quite figure out how to stop lil Matt Brauer.

Nor could you stop gigantic Anthony Tolliver...

[Rasputin]

So, the fact that you post attempted grade-school insults in EVERY thread that has to do with WSU is evidence of.... your non-obsession with WSU?

Dude. You are sooo jealous of us. You're acting like a little school girl now. All that's left is for you to stick out your tounge and say "I know you are but what am I".

What is the sweet 16 like? You wouldn't know. What's it like to make it to the Sweet 16, only to follow it up the next year with a team that's even better? You wouldn't know. What's it like to play teams of the caliber of LSU and Syracuse in your non-conference schedule this year? You wouldn't know.

The fact is, you don't know what it's like to be us, Rasputin. Sorry, you can't join the club. Our happiness doesn't depend on dominance over any one team, out happiness depends on being a successfull basketball team over the course of an entire season.

But one-pump-chumpin must suit many Creighton fans just fine...


Grade school insults? Acting like a little school girl? Thanks for showing us your delusions rjl (like I requested). Anymore grade-school mentaility testicle jokes you want to share with us, rjl? The only one I see slinging insults (personal ones too), is you.

You are rediculous, but it's funny just the same. :laughing:

[WSUbballer]

I hope you guys are all just college students because most of this argument is unhumorous and immature. WSU fans, you can't bash on SIU and CU's schedules and lack of BCS teams. The FACT is, those two schools have scheduled the way they have needed to in order to get in the NCAA tournament. These schools have found that instead of selling themselves to play big name teams on the road, they can achieve the same goal by consistently scheduling quality mid major teams in home and home series. While this philosophy doesn't bring any BCS type games to SIU or CU's home arena, neither does WSU's.

In actuality, I believe SIU and CU's approach is going to work out better than what WSU is trying to do. Wichita is going to be in a lot of trouble, IMO, if they lose both of these games against Syracuse and LSU on the road. The rest of the schedule is one of the worst in the conference, and I don't think WSU will get much of an RPI boost with losses to big teams to overcome the low RPI of the other teams they have on the schedule. Hopefully WSU pulls one of these big games out on the road so it doesn't have any negative effects.

There is really no validity to ripping SIU or CU and their scheduling because one cannot argue with the FACT that it has worked in achieving the goal that every team in our conference sets out at the beginning of the year. If you want a schedule to rip, try MSU, who saw themselves left out in the cold with the 2 highest RPIs in NCAA history to be left out of the tournament.

The problem I have with Wichita's strategy is that they gain about nothing out of this game with Syracuse if they lose. Sure, you can say that it may be televised or that recruits will look at it, but I've watched many BCS teams play mid-majors on national tv and I rarely remember the performances. At least when scheduling a home and home or a 2 for 1, the team gets something out of it and can bring an exciting game to the fans in a home arena. I think that would do a lot more to bring publicity to the Valley, as it isn't widely acknowledged the type of fanbases that our schools have.
Raise your hands if Gonzaga is/was a role model for your mid-major program. If you raised your hand, then you are in agreeance to what WSU has done.
One buyout game isn't gonna send the entire conference into a tailspin.
What happens when time is running out...you have a mediocre schedule...and you wanna make it better (aka NCAA resume-esque)? Sometimes you have to make the sacrifice. Otherwise, you'll be criticized in March for not having an at-large like strength of schedule.

[WSUbballer]

Nor could you stop gigantic Anthony Tolliver...
So that is a "no" to my little offer..
Thought so...

[Rasputin]

So that is a "no" to my little offer..
Thought so...

Hey if you could get Clod and his cronies to return the favor, i'll bite.

[rjl]

I'm finished. I'll suggest you get help, Rasputin. Seriously.

Posting on here and attempting to insinuate some superiority will never help out whatever shortcomings you feel you or your basketball team has.

I wish nothing but the best for Creighton this year. I hope they win all their non-con games, and I hope they go far in the NCAA tournament as long as they don't play us.

Until then, Rasputin, all I can say is this:

Remove user from ignore list
Rasputin
This message is hidden because Rasputin is on your ignore list.

I'm sure you'll post something about how I just gave up because I couldn't win or I was wrong or something, and that's fine. I'm not out to prove anything to you, and any reasonably intelligent person who reads the content of your posts can judge them for what they are.

I never thought I'd put anyone on my 'ignore' list, but as you've added no valuable information associated with ANYTHING on this board, I don't think I'll ever miss anything.

[UE-BBALL#1]

Gonzaga wasn't playing in a conference that had previous post season success and was as highly rated in the RPI as the MVC. Gonzaga went and played buy games because they knew their league was so bad they had to. The WCC was never in the position the MVC is in to elevate itself. Thus, I don't buy that argument.

[UE-BBALL#1]

I'm also fairly certain that WSU fans were among the first to belittle SIU for their Indiana contract with a buyout as bringing down the Valley. It seems as though before this little contract, WSU fans were completely against buy games. My how things change.

[rjl]

Gonzaga wasn't playing in a conference that had previous post season success and was as highly rated in the RPI as the MVC. Gonzaga went and played buy games because they knew their league was so bad they had to. The WCC was never in the position the MVC is in to elevate itself. Thus, I don't buy that argument.

If the "we're too good for this" scheduling model had ever proven itself, it would be one thing.

But it had done nothing for WSU. It's not like WSU opted for the SU buyout instead of a 1 and 1 with someone else.

Taking one RPI enhancing buyout game every 4 or 5 seasons isn't the end of the world, and it isn't the start of a whole new scheduling philosophy.

What it IS, though, is a chance to put our team in the national spotlight against one of the more storied programs in the annals of college basketball.

While I certainly hope and dont think it's a harbinger of scheduling tactics to come, I'm thrilled at the chance of knocking down one of the 'giants'.

[Rasputin]

I'm finished. I'll suggest you get help, Rasputin. Seriously.

Posting on here and attempting to insinuate some superiority will never help out whatever shortcomings you feel you or your basketball team has.

I wish nothing but the best for Creighton this year. I hope they win all their non-con games, and I hope they go far in the NCAA tournament as long as they don't play us.

Until then, Rasputin, all I can say is this:



I'm sure you'll post something about how I just gave up because I couldn't win or I was wrong or something, and that's fine. I'm not out to prove anything to you, and any reasonably intelligent person who reads the content of your posts can judge them for what they are.

I never thought I'd put anyone on my 'ignore' list, but as you've added no valuable information associated with ANYTHING on this board, I don't think I'll ever miss anything.


Whatever, as far as I am concerned you are just another one of Clod's disciples. Very sad. :no: Your delusions of grandeur has left you astray.

Bye-bye.

[UE-BBALL#1]

If the "we're too good for this" scheduling model had ever proven itself, it would be one thing.

But it had done nothing for WSU. It's not like WSU opted for the SU buyout instead of a 1 and 1 with someone else.

Taking one RPI enhancing buyout game every 4 or 5 seasons isn't the end of the world, and it isn't the start of a whole new scheduling philosophy.

What it IS, though, is a chance to put our team in the national spotlight against one of the more storied programs in the annals of college basketball.

While I certainly hope and dont think it's a harbinger of scheduling tactics to come, I'm thrilled at the chance of knocking down one of the 'giants'.

The "were too good for this scheduling" you speak of has proven itself, in both Carbondale and Omaha, for the last 5 years.

[WSUbballer]

I'm also fairly certain that WSU fans were among the first to belittle SIU for their Indiana contract with a buyout as bringing down the Valley. It seems as though before this little contract, WSU fans were completely against buy games. My how things change.
I am not a huge fan of them. Once in a while I think it is ok, under the right circumstances - a legitimate chance to win, a high-caliber opponent, a regional/national tv game. Again I make the argument that if you settle for the Daytons and Murry States every year, your schedule will yearly be scrutinized not only by the media, but the NCAA as well.
Far for me though, to disagree with an Evansville fan....when discussing basketball....:no:

[UE-BBALL#1]

Far for me though, to disagree with an Evansville fan....when discussing basketball....:no:

Is that all you got? That because the team I root for hasn't been good that I must know nothing about college basketball? Interesting perspective, misguided though.

[WSUbballer]

The "were too good for this scheduling" you speak of has proven itself, in both Carbondale and Omaha, for the last 5 years.
I'm sorry, but I've yet to see the BCS teams come flocking to any of these places in the last 10 years or even longer.. Wow, a game with Indiana in 2002... I'd figure by now these scheduling tactics were supposed to kick in and the Dukies would be running at these two's doorsteps...

[WSUbballer]

Is that all you got? That because the team I root for hasn't been good that I must know nothing about college basketball? Interesting perspective, misguided though.
No, that wasn't the basis for my post. It was a tiny little one-liner that you have obviously taken too seriously. So I apologize. Care to discuss what I said in the paragraph before that sentence though?

[Rasputin]

I am not a huge fan of them. Once in a while I think it is ok, under the right circumstances - a legitimate chance to win, a high-caliber opponent, a regional/national tv game. Again I make the argument that if you settle for the Daytons and Murry States every year, your schedule will yearly be scrutinized not only by the media, but the NCAA as well.
Far for me though, to disagree with an Evansville fan....when discussing basketball....:no:

Wow, you guys sure are alienating yourselves from the rest of the MVC...Lets see CU, SIU, and now Evansville. You guys should just go after the rest of the MVC as well.

[UE-BBALL#1]

I'm sorry, but I've yet to see the BCS teams come flocking to any of these places in the last 10 years or even longer.. Wow, a game with Indiana in 2002... I'd figure by now these scheduling tactics were supposed to kick in and the Dukies would be running at these two's doorsteps...

I didn't say BCS teams came there. I said their schedules got them in the tournament. The whole point I made was that they don't need BCS teams to come there in order to make the NCAA tournament, and what they are doing has proven to work. I don't really understand your bashing them for not bringing in BCS teams, as WSU isn't doing that either. The point that I am making is that it is stupid to bash something that works, and that WSU could be in trouble with their scheduling strategy of putting all your eggs in 2 games and a bunch of crud games after, just like it has failed in the past.

[WSUbballer]

Wow, you guys sure are alienating yourselves from the rest of the MVC...Lets see CU, SIU, and now Evansville. You guys should just go after the rest of the MVC as well.
Ah, my bad... This is a discussion forum. I forgot that we are all supposed to think and act like one solid unit.

[UE-BBALL#1]

No, that wasn't the basis for my post. It was a tiny little one-liner that you have obviously taken too seriously. So I apologize. Care to discuss what I said in the paragraph before that sentence though?

Those schedules with Murray St and Dayton have been scrutinized and have gotten the teams into the NCAA tournament. What else is there to say about it?

[WSUbballer]

I didn't say BCS teams came there. I said their schedules got them in the tournament. The whole point I made was that they don't need BCS teams to come there in order to make the NCAA tournament, and what they are doing has proven to work. I don't really understand your bashing them for not bringing in BCS teams, as WSU isn't doing that either. The point that I am making is that it is stupid to bash something that works, and that WSU could be in trouble with their scheduling strategy of putting all your eggs in 2 games and a bunch of crud games after, just like it has failed in the past.
I'm not bashing their schedule strategies. I am trying to defend my team's schedule strategy from the bashing. CU and SIU can do what they want to try to get to the NCAA's and WSU will do what it wants. Just as you said about CU and SIU, WSU's schedule last year got them into the tournament. Both ways have been proven successful, I agree. I guess I'm going off tangent a tad in response to some of the clever Bluejay fans' spin-ups...

[UE-BBALL#1]

The only real reason I posted was that I thought maybe I could get some talk in that, from an Evansville fan, wouldn't come off as biased as the usual CU-WSU banter. I honestly feel like the way teams schedule is going to be a huge issue within the conference the next couple years, but unfortunately all the discussion around here just turns into a pissing match.

The SIU-CU philosophy of avoiding RPI killers and stocking up on midlevel teams has worked well in the past.

WSU is taking a different approach and looking for a couple of BCS games on the road to hopefully bring up the strength of some low RPI teams they have in the non-conference schedule. The concern I would have is that if WSU fails to win either game, they could go the rest of the non-con schedule without getting a quality win over other mid-level teams, which are the teams that the MVC is usually compared to for at-large spots later in the year. If WSU wins one of the games, in my opinion, it will all work out. But I'm looking worst case scenario, it seems that the schedule limits WSU to only 2 opportunities, and both are in hostile road environments.

[WSUbballer]

The only real reason I posted was that I thought maybe I could get some talk in that, from an Evansville fan, wouldn't come off as biased as the usual CU-WSU banter. I honestly feel like the way teams schedule is going to be a huge issue within the conference the next couple years, but unfortunately all the discussion around here just turns into a pissing match.

The SIU-CU philosophy of avoiding RPI killers and stocking up on midlevel teams has worked well in the past.

WSU is taking a different approach and looking for a couple of BCS games on the road to hopefully bring up the strength of some low RPI teams they have in the non-conference schedule. The concern I would have is that if WSU fails to win either game, they could go the rest of the non-con schedule without getting a quality win over other mid-level teams, which are the teams that the MVC is usually compared to for at-large spots later in the year. If WSU wins one of the games, in my opinion, it will all work out. But I'm looking worst case scenario, it seems that the schedule limits WSU to only 2 opportunities, and both are in hostile road environments.
I can somewhat agree on that. If WSU fails to win one of those games (you might include a decent George Mason game in there as well as K-State or USC), then WSU simply might not deserve to go. However, one of my points is, at least someone is going to see how they stack up against one or two of the "big boys". I would kinda like to know where my team is holding their ground. I get sick and tired of seeing our teams play mediocre mid-level basketball teams. I just wanna have the chance, at least, to beat a high power team. And sometimes, you have to buffer to what big daddy wants to get that game. That's life...

[WSUfan]

The only real reason I posted was that I thought maybe I could get some talk in that, from an Evansville fan, wouldn't come off as biased as the usual CU-WSU banter. I honestly feel like the way teams schedule is going to be a huge issue within the conference the next couple years, but unfortunately all the discussion around here just turns into a pissing match.

The SIU-CU philosophy of avoiding RPI killers and stocking up on midlevel teams has worked well in the past.

WSU is taking a different approach and looking for a couple of BCS games on the road to hopefully bring up the strength of some low RPI teams they have in the non-conference schedule. The concern I would have is that if WSU fails to win either game, they could go the rest of the non-con schedule without getting a quality win over other mid-level teams, which are the teams that the MVC is usually compared to for at-large spots later in the year. If WSU wins one of the games, in my opinion, it will all work out. But I'm looking worst case scenario, it seems that the schedule limits WSU to only 2 opportunities, and both are in hostile road environments.

UE-BBALL#1: I think these pissing matches are stupid and I try to be fair and give credit to each MVC team. I was surprised to see a UE fan being a troll. If you go back and read your posts, I wonder if you will think they represent your thoughts correctly. I'm just curious because UE fans are often classier than CU, SIU or WSU fans.

[UE-BBALL#1]

UE-BBALL#1: I think these pissing matches are stupid and I try to be fair and give credit to each MVC team. I was surprised to see a UE fan being a troll. If you go back and read your posts, I wonder if you will think they represent your thoughts correctly. I'm just curious because UE fans are often classier than CU, SIU or WSU fans.

My posts represent my thoughts correctly, but I'm not sure I see the troll part or the unclassy part you refer to.

[cpacmel]

New Mexico has been awful and I can't believe JR Giddens alone can do anything about that. Throw that one out as a potential quality win. You gotta beat one of the others to get bang for your buck, preferably two.


New Mexico was 17-13 last season with an RPI of 120. Some would say they are probably a Giddens away from being a pretty good team

[MSNSaluki]

This thread has completely gone to hell since I visited early Friday evening.

Memo to Wichita State fans: Don't worry what folks outside of Wichita think of your schedule ... it's yours. Tell 'em to bite you.:shockers:
Memo to Creighton fans: Don't worry what folks outside of Omaha think of your schedule ... it's yours. Tell 'em to bite you.:jays:
Memo to Bradley fans: Don't worry what folks outside of Peoria think of your schedule ... it's yours. Tell 'em to bite you.:braves:
Memo to SIU fans: Don't worry what folks outside of Cardbondale think of your schedule ... it's yours. Tell 'em to bite you.:salukis:

Anybody getting my point?

Next thread, please!

[Aces101]

As far as UE goes, they have played several BCS games at home in recent years:

Indiana - 1 home, 1 away, 1 neutral, 1 preseason NIT
Purdue - 1 home, 1 away, 1 neutral
Michigan State - 1 for 1
Notre Dame - 1 for 1
Mississippi - 1 for 1
Vanderbilt - 1 for 1
Miami (FL) - this season in tourney at Evansville

I don't understand the criticism that some have stated about being content playing teams like Western Kentucky every year. What is wrong with that? These are the same posters who have voted in the last month to add them to the league with or without removing a current member.

[HawkFan]

I think what some folks are missing here is that what WSU does affect all the schools in the league.

And while they might think it is their business and only their business what they do, the reality is when other schools try to get home and homes and another MVC school has sold out for a deal like this, it makes it much harder to compete on that level playing field we are trying so hard to work through.

Bluebloods post a number of pages back was right on. We are better than this, and by WSU making this deal, it hurts us all.

I hate that Bradley made the Iowa state deal like they did. I think it's bad for us. But this is much worse. It both enables those schools that run from home and homes with MVC teams, and it diminishes valley schools at the same time.

I also think that the Gonzaga argument is flawed. Gonzaga does have that take on all comers anywhere philosophy it seems. However, their league can't even come close to the valley. So the only really decent games they play are their OOC schedule. Our league is so much better and more competitive that these kind of scheduling sell outs aren't necessary.

I also think their may end up being an RPI penalty if WSU loses both games. And that certainly affects all MVC teams. While I hope the Shox can win both, I don't think they will win either. And I don't think MT is putting his team in a good position either. Having one of these teams on the road a season is great, but you need to play the other at home to have a chance. I don't think he is giving his team a good chance.

I bet that commisioner Elgin isn't too kosher with this deal.

I know I'm not.

Go Braves.

[WuDrWu]

I think what some folks are missing here is that what WSU does affect all the schools in the league.

And while they might think it is their business and only their business what they do, the reality is when other schools try to get home and homes and another MVC school has sold out for a deal like this, it makes it much harder to compete on that level playing field we are trying so hard to work through.

Bluebloods post a number of pages back was right on. We are better than this, and by WSU making this deal, it hurts us all.

I hate that Bradley made the Iowa state deal like they did. I think it's bad for us. But this is much worse. It both enables those schools that run from home and homes with MVC teams, and it diminishes valley schools at the same time.

I also think that the Gonzaga argument is flawed. Gonzaga does have that take on all comers anywhere philosophy it seems. However, their league can't even come close to the valley. So the only really decent games they play are their OOC schedule. Our league is so much better and more competitive that these kind of scheduling sell outs aren't necessary.

I also think their may end up being an RPI penalty if WSU loses both games. And that certainly affects all MVC teams. While I hope the Shox can win both, I don't think they will win either. And I don't think MT is putting his team in a good position either. Having one of these teams on the road a season is great, but you need to play the other at home to have a chance. I don't think he is giving his team a good chance.

I bet that commisioner Elgin isn't too kosher with this deal.

I know I'm not.

Go Braves.

Well, like so many others here, you are incorrect. Mark isn't asking for your help in scheduling, thank you. In 6 years Mark hasn't done anything but help the Valley improve. All of you "experts" now want to blame him for crippling your own team's chance to ever get a home and home with a BCS team. Wake up and get a life. This is the current state of college basketball. You can "claim" to offer 1-1 games, know you aren't going to get them then play a mediocre schedule and try to back door a bid with a soft rpi, or you take what's out there and compete with the best and see where you really stand, improving your team along the way. Mark chooses the latter and so far it's working out ok.

[barkeep1967]

Wow, a game with Indiana in 2002... I'd figure by now these scheduling tactics were supposed to kick in and the Dukies would be running at these two's doorsteps...

that would be the same Indiana team that beat Duke to advance to the national championship game in 2002 .

[TrueBlueJay]

To all the Creighton and Southern Illinois fans that know alot about their scheduling:
Please name all the BCS schools that have come to your place for a home game over the past...let's say 10 years. Is it just me or have I yet to see your scheduling philosophies play out yet? Maybe, you're satisfied with the Murray States, the Central Michigans, and the Daytons of the world to fill your schedules.

So Syracuse is making a return trip now. Awesome.

[WuDrWu]

So Syracuse is making a return trip now. Awesome.


????? Tbj, confused by the facts again.

[Aargh]

This conversation is up to 18 pages over 2 threads of people discussing something they know nothing about. Unless you've been reading Jim Schaus' and Mark Turgeon's correspondence and tapping their phone lines you don't really know how this deal came about.

As close to the facts as we can get. (http://www.kansas.com/mld/kansas/sports/15256196.htm)

From the article:

Schaus said WSU contacted every major Division I school with the offer of a home-and-home series. When that was unsuccessful, WSU's best move, he said, was to accept the guarantee game and hope it pays off in March. WSU, and other Missouri Valley Conference schools, try to avoid being bought for a one-game deal which heavily favors the home team. MVC schools say they are worthy of home-and-home series with other top schools. The reality is those series are difficult to find.

So what is WSU supposed to do? Schedule more home cupcakes? Leave the schedule a few games short? So far, every major D1 school has refused a home-and-home with WSU.

Schaus and Turgeon seem to agree with the posters here who hate deals like this. But what do you suggest they do after they've contacted probably 100 schools for a home-and-home and every one of those schools says "no"?

[LincolnJay]

Truly, if every, say, top 12 conference team has refused to play WSU, then I think this guy should get someone else to do his negotiations cause he sucks at it.

By this formula, WSU will RARELY play anyone at home except