Has Creighton Hoops Peaked

[outpost]

Honest question. They have been to the NCAA's several years, but had to settle for the NIT last year. Injuries were a factor.

Has Dana settled for CU being merely the best in the Valley once in awhile? Or does he aspire to achieving even more?

Will Creighton try to "schedule up" from current level by playing a few of the big boys, even if it means 1-and-done? Will CU change its scheduling tactics, convinced that it is the best way to improve? Or will it settle for remaining at its current level, being occasionally the best in the Valley?

[DawgFan]

Do you ever wonder why this board is so freakin' lame? Honest question.

[iSASO]

Honest question. They have been to the NCAA's several years, but had to settle for the NIT last year. Injuries were a factor.

Has Dana settled for CU being merely the best in the Valley once in awhile? Or does he aspire to being
...
Gonzaga?

[outpost]

Sorry, ISASO, hadn't finished and hit submit rather than preview. Just wanted to provoke a little introspective discussion among CU fans. You know, take their collective minds off of hating WSU for a few moments.

[cuhoops]

I'm not sure, is WSU content with being the best in the Valley once every 18 years? Honest question.



Okay, now I'll give you my non-a s s hole response, the Jays have 2 POY candidates coming back in AT and Nate. If they can co-exist, and I think they can, it's going to be freaking hard to stop the jays this year. We have a great recruiting class coming in, the best arena in the Valley(hands down, who cares if we rent it?), and the best(arguably, Turg is great) coach in the Valley who has turned down numerous jobs to stay at Creighton and build a national power here.


I am PUMPED!:jays: :jays: :jays: :jays: :valley: :valley:

[iSASO]

I'm not sold that Creighton has peaked. This year will be a bell-weather test though. Need to make some hay, because the sun is shining.

[Tasmanian Devil]

I'm beginning to think the 1st WSU vs. CU game thread this season will blow away that 40+ page monster we saw after the SIU- WSU game. :clap:

[DJShocker10]

I'm beginning to think the 1st WSU vs. CU game thread this season will blow away that 40+ page monster we saw after the SIU- WSU game. :clap:

40+ pages?!? That's carpel-tunnel waiting to happen!

[WSUbballer]

I'm not sold that Creighton has peaked. This year will be a bell-weather test though. Need to make some hay, because the sun is shining.
I really can't decide whether CU has peaked yet or not. Until they match themselves up with a quality "big boy", I think there is alot of unknowns.

[WSUfan]

Honest question. They have been to the NCAA's several years, but had to settle for the NIT last year. Injuries were a factor.

Has Dana settled for CU being merely the best in the Valley once in awhile? Or does he aspire to achieving even more?

Will Creighton try to "schedule up" from current level by playing a few of the big boys, even if it means 1-and-done? Will CU change its scheduling tactics, convinced that it is the best way to improve? Or will it settle for remaining at its current level, being occasionally the best in the Valley?

Has Dana settled for CU being merely the best in the Valley once in awhile? Of course not. I have no doubt that he is the highest paid MBB coach in the Valley and feels the pressure to win big. He is a very good coach. Your question ..... not so good.

[crjays1]

Since you asked the question!

This incomming class should be our most talented if you believe in the hype. This years team should also be one of the best. So no I do not think we have peaked just maintaining a program.

So has WSU peaked!

WHat happens if you recieve an NIT bid, is that a failure, or lose in the first round is that a failure of a season and would that mean WSU is now on a downhill slide. I believe MT has built a fine program, but each fine program will not have s 16 runs each and every year.

As in facing the "big boys" good luck you have assembled a nice road schedule to reward those 10,000+ loyal fans that according to Iasoso pay thousands of dollars each year to have the right to buy season tickets. We have played and will continue to play very good teams. I would be very careful looking down your colelctive noses at Dayton, Xavier, and Depauls of the basketball world.

[outpost]

The purpose of this was to defuse the flame-war that resulted from WSU's decision to do its 1-and-done with Syracuse.

It's an honest question, with no malice intended.

I have no issues with many CU posters. Only a few, and even with that (with a few exceptions) I generally restrain myself during the discussion.

crjays, cuhoops.......this topic is about Creighton. Started by a WSU fan. No obsession or compulsion. I will sit back now. Bring your friends over from Bluejay cafe. I'll sit back now and be interested in reading your responses.

Please don't turn the question around, and then accuse WSU of hijacking a discussion about Creighton. OKay?

[brokeback shocker]

Creighton has won one regular season championship during Altman's tenure.

I think they have a co-championship too.

That is hardly domination.

I am still waiting to hear why and how Creighton's schedule over the last few years is so great.

It seems to me that the Creighton scheduling philosophy hasn't worked.

Since they supposedly paved the way for the other MVC teams, they must've failed since few major teams are visiting the home arenas of other MVC schools - including Creighton.

The notion that WSU's game at Syracuse is hurting the chances of MVC teams getting good home games is total horse schmidt b/c it ain't happening now and it hasn't happened.

It seems to me that MT looked at what Altman has done and realized it hasn't worked out so well.

[dawg_tired nemesis]

As for WSU this year, i'm not as optomistic as last years team. I think alot of WSU fans thought that last years team would actually be better than the previous years team with Howard and Burns. I am optimistic that WSU can atleast split with CU this year (i'm basing this off the fact that Miller didn't play most of the game at home because of foul trouble and WSU played better without him), but I think WSU needs to have a P. Miller type step up to beat SIU home or away. If WSU can do it them the ncaa's are definately a possibility. I think the big question for CU is if Funk can blend back into the team and not messup last years chemistry. And if SIU can find some offense they might chalk up another regular season title. MSU also looks good on paper. If WSU, CU, SIU or MSU doesn't finish in the top 5 I would think it would be considered a failure for any of them.

[LincolnJay]

Honest question. Has Dana settled for CU being merely the best in the Valley once in awhile? Or does he aspire to achieving even more?

No.

[MSNSaluki]

I believe the best of Creighton is yet to come.

[crjays1]

The purpose of this was to defuse the flame-war that resulted from WSU's decision to do its 1-and-done with Syracuse.

It's an honest question, with no malice intended.

I have no issues with many CU posters. Only a few, and even with that (with a few exceptions) I generally restrain myself during the discussion.

crjays, cuhoops.......this topic is about Creighton. Started by a WSU fan. No obsession or compulsion. I will sit back now. Bring your friends over from Bluejay cafe. I'll sit back now and be interested in reading your responses.

Please don't turn the question around, and then accuse WSU of hijacking a discussion about Creighton. OKay?


I understand, and my question was what I believe to non-inflammatory just as your.

Sorry Outpost did not intend to be viewed as an attack.

[Aargh]

I don't think CU has peaked and I think CU has the potential to be an outstanding MVC team this year.

Altman made his run to the top of the Valley when the Valley was a shadow of what it is today. Then Weber/Painter/Lowery took SIU beyond where Altman had taken CU.

Altman didn't fade away. He improved CU to keep up with an always-improving SIU. Then Turgeon slowly moved up the ranks and (for one year at least) moved past both Altman and Lowery.

Altman is not going to fade away this year and it looks like he has the team to move himself past Lowery and Turgeon this year.

Then there's Hinson, who is also pushing the Valley to a higher level. The entire league is moving to a higher level and Altman is certainly doing nothing to give the appearance he isn't keeping up. That means Altman is still improving CU's program year after year.

Perhaps Altman's NCAA seeds have peaked, unless Conference wins move CU into a top-half-of-the-bracket seed. Top MVC teams should be aiming for a 5-seed.

[outpost]

Well thought-out answers by most posters to this question, so far.

I had to chuckle when I read LJ's response, because he mistakenly responded that Dana isn't settling for being the best in the Valley, while that same single word response seemed to indicate that Creighton doesn't aspire to improve its standing on the national scene. We all know that the latter isn't true.

Let me ask a few other questions. With the #1 recruiting class in the Valley, with Funk coming back, and with several other key returnees (knock on wood for a fully recovered Dotzler), is the average Creighton fan on the street satisfied with the upcoming schedule? Is it befitting of a preseason high mid-major school in his opinion? In short, is the schedule perceived to be challenging enough for CU?

Thanks for keeping the replies civil.

[Jayfan]

If the question is, has Creighton Scheduling peaked, then for the time being I would say yes.

We could schedule the big boys as we have discussed before, but apparently thats not Bruce and Dana's plan. What we need to do is get ourselves back into the big dance and prove ourselves once we get there. I think w/ the schedule we have we can get a decent seed, but we need to win 22-23 games. With the current state of the Valley that wont be any easy task for any team. I do think we peaked the last season at the Civic and the last few years we have gotten back to and surpassed the level we were at with Korver and Co.

I am actually really glad Wichita took those two big boy games, now we will find out once and for all which way gets you to the top the fastest.

[WuDrWu]

Actually, I think we found out last year when WSU played 2 huge games.

I continue to be amazed at CU fan's response to 1 scheduled game.

[cuhoops]

Creighton has won one regular season championship during Altman's tenure.

I think they have a co-championship too.

That is hardly domination.

I am still waiting to hear why and how Creighton's schedule over the last few years is so great.

It seems to me that the Creighton scheduling philosophy hasn't worked.

Since they supposedly paved the way for the other MVC teams, they must've failed since few major teams are visiting the home arenas of other MVC schools - including Creighton.

The notion that WSU's game at Syracuse is hurting the chances of MVC teams getting good home games is total horse schmidt b/c it ain't happening now and it hasn't happened.

It seems to me that MT looked at what Altman has done and realized it hasn't worked out so well.

Who said Creighton has dominated the Valley?... uhh, yes, that is right, NOBODY.

Altman's philosophy is that since we have such a big fanbase, the Q, and top 20 attendance, we should not give in to schools and do deals such as 1 and dones and 2 for 1's, he'd rather play Dayton, Xavier, and Depaul and the such. Creighton tries to schedule games with teams such as Marquette and Gonzaga, but they(as you can see) always say no. Personally, I wish they would just abolish the 2 and 4 rule for the tournaments like the Vegas Tourney, the Guardians, the Hawaii Shootout, and the Maui Invitational, I think this would really help the MVC and other conferences get to show their stuff against BCS teams on national TV. In the Guardians, we have played Notre Dame, Missouri, and Ohio State on a neutral floor. Unfortunately, the Hawaii Shootout which we are in this year has a rather weak field IMO. I'd like to see the valley try to get NEUTRAL games with teams like Syracuse, Villanova, and Big East teams in these tournaments.


Abolish two in four tourney rule. Man law? Man law.

[blueblood]

Has Creighton peaked?
So thus has a WSU fan critiqued
This years lineup Altman has tweaked
When the shockers play CU they will be freaked

At the same time WSU has become a whore
They were happy for years with their bowling score
Having a schedule that Turgeon is responsible for
Its ended up the worst since the civil war

[Jayfan]

Actually, I think we found out last year when WSU played 2 huge games.

I continue to be amazed at CU fan's response to 1 scheduled game.

It wasn't a dig we seem to split into two camps one and done is the only way, and don't give in to the BCS. Five years from now we will know which fork in the road was the correct one to take. Good luck:grin:

[outpost]

Has Creighton peaked?
So thus has a WSU fan critiqued
This years lineup Altman has tweaked
When the shockers play CU they will be freaked

At the same time WSU has become a whore
They were happy for years with their bowling score
Having a schedule that Turgeon is responsible for
Its ended up the worst since the civil war

Don't quit your day job, Blue.....and remember, this thread is all about Creighton, don't hijack it with 1) perverse poetry and 2) opinions about WSU.

[underdawg2]

Wow! CU and WSU really hate each other--they really, really hate each other:original:

[WSUbballer]

It wasn't a dig we seem to split into two camps one and done is the only way, and don't give in to the BCS. Five years from now we will know which fork in the road was the correct one to take. Good luck:grin:
I coulda sworn Altman has been at CU for more than 5 years...say maybe 12 or so? I woulda thought the Dana philosophy in scheduling would have paid off by now.

[cuhoops]

I coulda sworn Altman has been at CU for more than 5 years...say maybe 12 or so? I woulda thought the Dana philosophy in scheduling would have paid off by now.

You know, it takes a little time to become a national power, if you can remember, Altman took over a weak program, just like turgeon, so take it easy, Altman is doing it his way, Turgeon is doing it his way.

[WSUbballer]

You know, it takes a little time to become a national power, if you can remember, Altman took over a weak program, just like turgeon, so take it easy, Altman is doing it his way, Turgeon is doing it his way.
That is my whole point exactly! Let WSU do their thing and let CU do their thing.

[LincolnJay]

.

Abolish two in four tourney rule. Man law? Man law.

Actually, it has been abolished. That was my point of the thread I started on how to get scheduling done. Schedule like mid majors with home and homes and play the BCS schools on neutral floors in tournaments.

Hell, even Turdgeon is taking my advice for the following year by getting into the San Juan event in November with Georgia Tech and Notre Dame.

[txsaluki05]

I'm not sure, is WSU content with being the best in the Valley once every 18 years? Honest question.

I am PUMPED!:jays: :jays: :jays: :jays: :valley: :valley:

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Creighton hasn't peaked; I don't think anyone in this conference has. I love how this question gets raised just before one of the Bluejay's most hyped/anticipated seasons, with Funk returning.

[outpost]

Your perspective is an interesting one, txsaluki.

Injuries played a big part in what happened to CU last year. I won't deny it. Let's assume that everyone makes it through the season healthy, and fast forward to the post-season. If the "toughness" of their schedule doesn't get the Jays into at least a 2nd round game ("thrilling 32", or however you want to refer to it), will there be doubts, second guessing, etc.?

Might Dana have thoughts about changing his own scheduling philosophy?

Just curious.

If Creighton is as good as advertised (#1 recruiting class, consensus ValleyTalk preseason favorite, etc.), wouldn't Dana want to schedule up a notch or two, given the fact that many BCS school's have a historical reluctance to return games?

Please keep the responses civil. And don't dodge it with some dumbass comment.

[LincolnJay]

Your perspective is an interesting one, txsaluki.

Injuries played a big part in what happened to CU last year. I won't deny it. Let's assume that everyone makes it through the season healthy, and fast forward to the post-season. If the "toughness" of their schedule doesn't get the Jays into at least a 2nd round game ("thrilling 32", or however you want to refer to it), will there be doubts, second guessing, etc.?

Might Dana have thoughts about changing his own scheduling philosophy?

Just curious.

If Creighton is as good as advertised (#1 recruiting class, consensus ValleyTalk preseason favorite, etc.), wouldn't Dana want to schedule up a notch or two, given the fact that many BCS school's have a historical reluctance to return games?

Please keep the responses civil. And don't dodge it with some dumbass comment.

Those who don't believe in on and done's don't think it is "scheduling up" to play a road only game, they believe it is selling out. Just accept that there are two camps of thought and let it go cause neither side is gonna convince the other. CU is playing Xavier and a rumored game against San Diego State - both will likely have a better RPI this year than Syracuse. Why is playing a roadie against Syracuse better than these games?

CU "buys" two games per year and I don't like it but bottom line for CU, they really need to have X number of home games to make the kind of money that basically carries the whole athletics department. No room for a roadie and if you think you will make as much at Syracuse as you would a sold out home game, you are delusional.

[iSASO]

Those who don't believe in one and done's don't think it is "scheduling up" to play a road only game, they believe it is selling out. Why is playing a roadie against Syracuse better than these games?

Where does Spinelli recruit? Not Ohio and not San Diego.

There are multiple benefits to the Syracuse game and multiple agenda's driving it.
Recruiting is one.
Keeping the national exposure alive after the Sweet 16 appearance on the East Coast is another.

[blueblood]

and if you are a recruit, do you go to BCS full of money and status buyer school, or to the team that can't get a home game and was bought out?

[iSASO]

I don't know, why don't you ask Karon Bradley?

From his bio...
"Went to Marquette after being recruited by Oklahoma, Kansas State, Texas A&M, Rhode Island and South Carolina."

Or maybe PJ Cousinard:
"Also recruited by Auburn, Baylor and Miami (Fla.)"

Or maybe Paul Miller:
Recruited by Texas Tech, Oklahoma

[blueblood]

Recruits look at a lot of factors. One of many being if you are the buyer of the buyee.

[LincolnJay]

I don't know, why don't you ask Karon Bradley?

From his bio...
"Went to Marquette after being recruited by Oklahoma, Kansas State, Texas A&M, Rhode Island and South Carolina."

Or maybe PJ Cousinard:
"Also recruited by Auburn, Baylor and Miami (Fla.)"

Or maybe Paul Miller:
Recruited by Texas Tech, Oklahoma

Winning and big crowds are the most important factors with chances to play right away {ala Illinois State}, close to home and lotsa other reasons playing a role too..

For CU lately, ask Isacc Miles, {half the Big XII}, Kenny Lawson {Oregon State offer, Virginia, Maryland and others looking}, Ty Morrison {Washington, Gonzaga, Arizona State after getting out of Mizzou scholie} to name a few. Then again, Dotzler had Florida and Michigan State testing his allegiance to his early commit but close to home won him over. I bet it took a winning tradition and big crowds to seal the deal for him though.

[MoValley John]

Okay, so call me crazy, but every now and then, just maybe, a recruit just might select a school because it is strong in his chosen field of study.

[LincolnJay]

Okay, so call me crazy, but every now and then, just maybe, a recruit just might select a school because it is strong in his chosen field of study.

Yes, agreed, that's one of those "lotsa factors". For some, it's monsterously important but I don't believe it is #1 for a majority of basketball playing kids.

[MoValley John]

Yes, agreed, that's one of those "lotsa factors". For some, it's monsterously important but I don't believe it is #1 for a majority of basketball playing kids.

Who would have thought that college was meant to provide an education?:innocent:

[MSNSaluki]

Just because a player was recruited by a number of BCS schools doesn't mean he'll do squat at a Valley school.

Can anyone believe Wisconsin actually gave Neil Plank a scholarship before he wound up at ISU?

A few years back SIU signed a kid from Texas who had been recuited by everybody and who originally signed with TCU so he could run and gun with Billy Tubbs. He never made it to school there and spent one glorious season at SIU, where he averaged 3.2 points a game and was completely lost. Dude's name was Toshay Harvey, and he was part of SIU's infamous 16-14 team in 2000-2001 that played basketball Wichita fans would love (they averaged about 75 a game) but gave up 85.

He left Carbondale due to grades and personal issues and wound up playing on a Division III national title team somewhere. But the fact of the matter was this: He couldn't play in the Valley and at one time, he looked like a can't miss.

And let's remember one other thing: You can't always believe what you hear when a player says he chose Wichita State/Creighton/SIU/UNI over UConn, Michigan State, Kentucky and Florida. Sometimes, those lists are kind of like Gal Mekal's initially reported height.

[Bird]

Any thought of CU peaking is ridiculous. Our fan base is growing to levels never seen in the MVC and Dana's recruiting is taking a huge step up. Not sure how that is peaking (unless this thread is simply an attempt to flame at CU).

Also, remember, the only years we didn't make the NCAA tournament in the last 8 years are the 2 years we had significant injuries (McKinney three years ago and then Funk/Dotzler last year). If "peaking" is making the NCAA's every year you have a relatively healthy club, and your injury riddled years still end in the NIT, I'll be happy.

[outpost]

Any thought of CU peaking is ridiculous. Our fan base is growing to levels never seen in the MVC and Dana's recruiting is taking a huge step up. Not sure how that is peaking (unless this thread is simply an attempt to flame at CU).

Also, remember, the only years we didn't make the NCAA tournament in the last 8 years are the 2 years we had significant injuries (McKinney three years ago and then Funk/Dotzler last year). If "peaking" is making the NCAA's every year you have a relatively healthy club, and your injury riddled years still end in the NIT, I'll be happy.*

That's exactly what I was alluding to, Bird*. Apparently you didn't read the thread thoroughly. One purpose of the thread was to put a stop to the war of flames going on over WSU's decision to do the Syracuse game. I think that it had at leas

No flaming, just trying to provoke a little civil discourse. How would you react if Andy Katz asked a question like that?

My question is "can the Jays go further" than just making the NCAA's? Will their current schedule prepare them for a matchup with, say, a Duke or Michigan State or Boston College (thinking back last year) in a second round matchup?

And it's not the first time I've asked, but does this year's CU team deserve A) a weaker schedule, B) status quo, or C) a step up in scheduling?

You decide, but decide tactfully.

[blueness]

The Valley schedule seemed to be enough preparation for the Shocks and the Braves in last season's NCAA, even when their own schedules (OOC or otherwise) were nothing to shout about.

Creighton schedule is about the same as it has been the last few seasons, which for now, is fine.

CU hasn't peaked, I do feel however, they have been on the brink (of a deeper NCAA-run) for a long and overdue amount of time (considering some of the teams that have come and gone).


I think you could also make the argument to hold judgment on this type of thing until there are a few more seasons in the books with DA and MT at the helms of their respective schools.

[MikeKennedyRulz]

The Valley schedule seemed to be enough preparation for the Shocks and the Braves in last season's NCAA, even when their own schedules (OOC or otherwise) were nothing to shout about.

While I think the Valley schedule was great preperation for the Shox, I think games against Illinois, Michigan St., and George Mason helped in preperation also. I think having two final four teams from the year before and an eventual final four team on your schedule is something to shout about.

[Bird]

:sleeping:

[MikeKennedyRulz]

:sleeping:

:helpsmilie:

[WSUfan]

The Valley schedule seemed to be enough preparation for the Shocks and the Braves in last season's NCAA, even when their own schedules (OOC or otherwise) were nothing to shout about.


Your comment seems to be a bit denigrating to BU and WSU. I think MikeKennedyRulz made a completely appropriate reply; Bird's response seems rather infantile.