SIU vs. St. Marys

[Saluki762]

Not as good a game as we wanted, but better than other options. A rematch of the 2005 NCAA Tournament first round.

http://thesouthern.com/articles/2006/08/17/sports/17264236.txt


:salukis: :valley:

[DoubleJayAlum]

Good for SIU. It also sounds like the game will be on TV, which is always an added bonus.

[LincolnJay]

Solid series - was kinda hoping CU might try to grab this series with the way we are recruiting California.

[DawgieStyle]

good pick up, but the real story of the article is the STUPID! idea of picking up a non D-1 opponent to finish out the schedule....freaking Dumb. God dang it Lowery, grow a set.

[Saluki762]

Agreed, what a joke. :cursing:

At least it can't count against RPI.
:salukis: :valley:

[dogdays]

Dawgie Stlye, you clearly dont understand the logistics and problems of scheduling, particularly with the position SIU is in..dont get me wrong, im not a big D2 fan either but if you knew the facts you wouldnt make such statements...

[SiuCubFan8]

good pick up, but the real story of the article is the STUPID! idea of picking up a non D-1 opponent to finish out the schedule....freaking Dumb. God dang it Lowery, grow a set.

If C-lo couldn't find a good D1 game then this is better than a sub 250 rpi game since it doesn't count against the RPI.

BTW- Before anyone says why is the St. Mary's game at St. Mary's? Well it was our choice to play away this year cause we need the home game next year.

Not the best situation I wanted to see. This makes the thanksgiving tournament more important to do well in. If we can do well in that it will give us 2 BCS games and with IU/Western Ken we should be alright RPI wise. C-lo is really holding to his word with the no one and dones and 2 for ones.

[DawgieStyle]

Dawgie Stlye, you clearly dont understand the logistics and problems of scheduling, particularly with the position SIU is in..dont get me wrong, im not a big D2 fan either but if you knew the facts you wouldnt make such statements...

oh come on, I understand the logistics just find and the facts. Yah, and I know the cry babies would cry if we took a buy out game, but you know what? I'm all for it. A game on the road against a Top 25 team, wah. It's a game against a top 25 team, a chance to prove our selves, a chance to take a HUGE! RPI jump. and if we lose? no big deal, we lost to a better team on the road, no shame in that, and not an RPI killer. If the valley is going to progress any further, its time to follow the line set by Gonzaga. Play anyone, any where, any time and take some risk. If the big boys won't come here and let us advance, go there and take it from them. Stop your whining about how its bad for the valley, and we're whoring our selves out. That is line of crap. If you want something, you have to go out and take it, no one is going to give it to you.

[dogdays]

As much as you think you do, you clearly dont understand. Im glad you arent doing the scheduling.

[DawgieStyle]

As much as you think you do, you clearly dont understand. Im glad you arent doing the scheduling.

you're a pansy....you probably were against the proposed UNC game....

[SiuCubFan8]

you're a pansy....you probably were against the proposed UNC game....


First off you are not on the inside and do not do the scheduling. So you know just about as much about this situation as the rest of us maybe less. Do you know if there were offers out there from BCS schools for one and dones, 2 for 1s?

Second of all our schedule is fine the way it shaped up right now. Yes we all may have wanted one more big name on it but we have a chance to play a few in the thanksgiving tournament and we have IU. We have western Kentucky and St. Mary's two pretty damn good programs. St. Louis is an improving team and Murray st is a ncaa tournay team it seems like every year (albeit from a very weak OVC). La tech is decent and with a strong MVC this year we will be just fine.

Lastly, how is dogdays a pansy. Because his veiws don't match up with yours. YOu are the one always barking about people getting all bent out of shape when you put out an idea others don't like.

[DaShox]

"Really, the Missouri Valley and the WCC should have a series, a showdown, whatever you want to call it," said Bennett

Uh......I don't think so.

[MikeKennedyRulz]

you're a pansy....you probably were against the proposed UNC game....


Is this another example you talked about yesterday of people avoiding valleytalk because when the have a differing opinion they get called a name?

[SiuCubFan8]

Is this another example you talked about yesterday of people avoiding valleytalk because when the have a differing opinion they get called a name?

Nice call out MKR, you beat me to it!:clap: :salukis: :shockers: :valley:

[MikeKennedyRulz]

Uh......I don't think so.

As long as WSU gets Gonzaga every year that is fine with me Mr. Bennett. :grin:

[MikeKennedyRulz]

Nice call out MKR, you beat me to it!:clap: :salukis: :shockers: :valley:

That post of his just smelled of hipocrisy and I felt compelled to point it out.

[cufan]

Dawgie Style, what will you be saying next year when that home game has to be filled with a D-II opponent or some other worthless buy game because you didn't get a game with a return game next year? St. Mary's is an excellent team and this is a great series. They are traditionally near the top of the West Coast Conference - which is Gonzaga's conference. Their RPI will most likely be excellent this year, and they may even give a Gonzaga a run for their money in the WCC. At the end of the year, this will be classified by the committee as either a quality win or a quality loss - I'm expecting the quality win. Next year, it will be an excellent home game to watch, and most likely again considered by the committee to be a quality opponent.

Now, you could play a one and done on the road against some BCS team, which of course could be a quality win or a quality loss for this year, but next year you are going to be playing a sub-200 RPI game for that home game or giving up a home game to go on the road again. You will be complaining about the crappy home game schedule.

In the meantime, you are contributing to the BCS opponent you sold yourself to by allowing the BCS school to provide quality home games to its fans without having to reciprocate with an away game next year.

This is the short-sightedness that some schools and fans don't seem to get. If the top mid-majors refused to play these buy games, then the BCS schools that refuse to do one and one's with us will be forced to bring in lousy teams to fill out their home schedules. How long do you think fans of most schools would continue to fill their arenas to watch the Bethune-Cookmans of the world? If the good mid-major teams would hang tough on this issue, eventually BCS schools would have to give a one and one here and there to complete their schedules.

In the meantime, and frankly even if the BCS schools settle for playing crappy home non-con schedules, then that is what their fans deserve. The serieses we play against the likes of Xavier, Dayton, St. Mary's, Geroge Mason, Fresno State, and other similar schools are outstanding. Their fan bases are very similar to the MVC school fan bases. They all carry the same chip on their shoulder as we do. They are usually good, knowledgeable fans appreciative of the quality of play. And as we all know, the quality of play is usually just as good as most BCS schools. I will take these serieses (is that a word?) over the one and done's coupled with buy games against sub-200 teams any day (or season).

[DawgieStyle]

First off you are not on the inside and do not do the scheduling. So you know just about as much about this situation as the rest of us maybe less. Do you know if there were offers out there from BCS schools for one and dones, 2 for 1s?

Second of all our schedule is fine the way it shaped up right now. Yes we all may have wanted one more big name on it but we have a chance to play a few in the thanksgiving tournament and we have IU. We have western Kentucky and St. Mary's two pretty damn good programs. St. Louis is an improving team and Murray st is a ncaa tournay team it seems like every year (albeit from a very weak OVC). La tech is decent and with a strong MVC this year we will be just fine.

Lastly, how is dogdays a pansy. Because his veiws don't match up with yours. YOu are the one always barking about people getting all bent out of shape when you put out an idea others don't like.


keep on keeping on SIUCUB. Didn't I just hear all of you on the other thread about Katz top 50 about who SIU and the valley can beat almost anyone in the Big 12 or Big 10? Isn't that what I heard? Yah, well then we should prove it. We shouldn't schedule some cup cake. Go ahead, schedule the cup cake tho, give shocker fans more amunition. It's time for the valley to put up or shut up. We complained all last year about how little respect we got from the likes of Digger, Nantz and the rest of the gang. Well here is the valley's chance to step up like men. and with the exception of Wichita who got syracuse, we all whimper out the back door because we don't get the game at home, or a 1 and 1. I'm frankly tired of it. We're as bad as the big boys are who complain about how the MVC won't play them. Well, they're partly right, we won't play them unless we get a 1 and 1 or a home game. Who the heck does the Valley think we are? We're still not the Big East, We're still not the ACC or the Big 10. They've quite frankly earned the right to dictate where the games should be played. Why, well there the ones with the national championship banners hanging in the halls. It's called king of the hill boys. You have to go knock them off it, not the other way around.

[DawgieStyle]

Is this another example you talked about yesterday of people avoiding valleytalk because when the have a differing opinion they get called a name?

yah you're right. but this subject makes me soooooo mad....grrrrrrr......

[WuDrWu]

I am not sharp enough to start a poll, but I am really, sincerely, curious if SIU fans would rather have this game (and the return game next year) or a game at Syracuse with the hassle of still needing to find a game next year?

[DawgieStyle]

Dawgie Style, what will you be saying next year when that home game has to be filled with a D-II opponent or some other worthless buy game because you didn't get a game with a return game next year? St. Mary's is an excellent team and this is a great series. They are traditionally near the top of the West Coast Conference - which is Gonzaga's conference. Their RPI will most likely be excellent this year, and they may even give a Gonzaga a run for their money in the WCC. At the end of the year, this will be classified by the committee as either a quality win or a quality loss - I'm expecting the quality win. Next year, it will be an excellent home game to watch, and most likely again considered by the committee to be a quality opponent.

Now, you could play a one and done on the road against some BCS team, which of course could be a quality win or a quality loss for this year, but next year you are going to be playing a sub-200 RPI game for that home game or giving up a home game to go on the road again. You will be complaining about the crappy home game schedule.

In the meantime, you are contributing to the BCS opponent you sold yourself to by allowing the BCS school to provide quality home games to its fans without having to reciprocate with an away game next year.

This is the short-sightedness that some schools and fans don't seem to get. If the top mid-majors refused to play these buy games, then the BCS schools that refuse to do one and one's with us will be forced to bring in lousy teams to fill out their home schedules. How long do you think fans of most schools would continue to fill their arenas to watch the Bethune-Cookmans of the world? If the good mid-major teams would hang tough on this issue, eventually BCS schools would have to give a one and one here and there to complete their schedules.

In the meantime, and frankly even if the BCS schools settle for playing crappy home non-con schedules, then that is what their fans deserve. The serieses we play against the likes of Xavier, Dayton, St. Mary's, Geroge Mason, Fresno State, and other similar schools are outstanding. Their fan bases are very similar to the MVC school fan bases. They all carry the same chip on their shoulder as we do. They are usually good, knowledgeable fans appreciative of the quality of play. And as we all know, the quality of play is usually just as good as most BCS schools. I will take these serieses (is that a word?) over the one and done's coupled with buy games against sub-200 teams any day (or season).

pay attention....re read the post...I don't have a problem with the Saint Mary's game....I have a problem with a possible non D-1 opponent as stated in the article.

[DaShox]

Agree on the Zags. I have no desire to see my Shocks or the MVC play in junior high gyms on ESPN. But, here's the rest of the league:

Gonzaga
Loyola Marymount (12-18)
Pepperdine (7-20)
Portland (11-18)
Saint Mary's (17-12)
San Diego (18-12)
San Francisco (11-17)
Santa Clara (13-16)

5 of 8 teams under .500. Thrilling.

[WuDrWu]

Dawgie Style, what will you be saying next year when that home game has to be filled with a D-II opponent or some other worthless buy game because you didn't get a game with a return game next year? St. Mary's is an excellent team and this is a great series. They are traditionally near the top of the West Coast Conference - which is Gonzaga's conference. Their RPI will most likely be excellent this year, and they may even give a Gonzaga a run for their money in the WCC. At the end of the year, this will be classified by the committee as either a quality win or a quality loss - I'm expecting the quality win. Next year, it will be an excellent home game to watch, and most likely again considered by the committee to be a quality opponent.

Now, you could play a one and done on the road against some BCS team, which of course could be a quality win or a quality loss for this year, but next year you are going to be playing a sub-200 RPI game for that home game or giving up a home game to go on the road again. You will be complaining about the crappy home game schedule.

In the meantime, you are contributing to the BCS opponent you sold yourself to by allowing the BCS school to provide quality home games to its fans without having to reciprocate with an away game next year.

This is the short-sightedness that some schools and fans don't seem to get. If the top mid-majors refused to play these buy games, then the BCS schools that refuse to do one and one's with us will be forced to bring in lousy teams to fill out their home schedules. How long do you think fans of most schools would continue to fill their arenas to watch the Bethune-Cookmans of the world? If the good mid-major teams would hang tough on this issue, eventually BCS schools would have to give a one and one here and there to complete their schedules.

In the meantime, and frankly even if the BCS schools settle for playing crappy home non-con schedules, then that is what their fans deserve. The serieses we play against the likes of Xavier, Dayton, St. Mary's, Geroge Mason, Fresno State, and other similar schools are outstanding. Their fan bases are very similar to the MVC school fan bases. They all carry the same chip on their shoulder as we do. They are usually good, knowledgeable fans appreciative of the quality of play. And as we all know, the quality of play is usually just as good as most BCS schools. I will take these serieses (is that a word?) over the one and done's coupled with buy games against sub-200 teams any day (or season).

Then you will continue to never improve your team's ability to compete against the best. I agree that the games are outstanding. That is because they are similar teams. You aren't stepping up in class and your desire to maintain some false moral high ground compared to schools that choose to play the tougher games proves your inability to rationally, objectively and fairly assess the situation.

IMHO, your team deserves better. I wish they would play a game like Syracuse. They can compete with almost any team and win. This contining bickering is without common sense. If you took a step back and see what is there to capture I think you would agree.

[SiuCubFan8]

keep on keeping on SIUCUB. Didn't I just hear all of you on the other thread about Katz top 50 about who SIU and the valley can beat almost anyone in the Big 12 or Big 10? Isn't that what I heard? Yah, well then we should prove it. We shouldn't schedule some cup cake. Go ahead, schedule the cup cake tho, give shocker fans more amunition. It's time for the valley to put up or shut up. We complained all last year about how little respect we got from the likes of Digger, Nantz and the rest of the gang. Well here is the valley's chance to step up like men. and with the exception of Wichita who got syracuse, we all whimper out the back door because we don't get the game at home, or a 1 and 1. I'm frankly tired of it. We're as bad as the big boys are who complain about how the MVC won't play them. Well, they're partly right, we won't play them unless we get a 1 and 1 or a home game. Who the heck does the Valley think we are? We're still not the Big East, We're still not the ACC or the Big 10. They've quite frankly earned the right to dictate where the games should be played. Why, well there the ones with the national championship banners hanging in the halls. It's called king of the hill boys. You have to go knock them off it, not the other way around.


The last thing I care about is giving WSU fans amunition, and I am sure that is the farthest thing from C-lo's mind.:banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

[SiuCubFan8]

Agree on the Zags. I have no desire to see my Shocks or the MVC play in junior high gyms on ESPN. But, here's the rest of the league:

Gonzaga
Loyola Marymount (12-18)
Pepperdine (7-20)
Portland (11-18)
Saint Mary's (17-12)
San Diego (18-12)
San Francisco (11-17)
Santa Clara (13-16)

5 of 8 teams under .500. Thrilling.

They usually have one team other than the Zags that are any good. A MVC/WCC showdown would have 2 good games and that is about it.

[WuDrWu]

Agree on the Zags. I have no desire to see my Shocks or the MVC play in junior high gyms on ESPN. But, here's the rest of the league:

Gonzaga
Loyola Marymount (12-18)
Pepperdine (7-20)
Portland (11-18)
Saint Mary's (17-12)
San Diego (18-12)
San Francisco (11-17)
Santa Clara (13-16)

5 of 8 teams under .500. Thrilling.


Well, why I am happy we are trying to improve our schedule, let us not forget the game at USF last year. I think that most Shocker fans pumped up the game for being "quality" and whether or not it was, it certainly helped our team to improve. It was a big win.

[DaShox]

You have to wonder if SIU wants to go to the next level. I would like to see SIU play North Carolina and I think they can take on the Syracuse's of the world, it just appears they are more comfortable being the big fish in the small pond and staying a top mid-major.

[dogdays]

SIU doesnt have to go to Syracuse because they will be playing AR and IU this year as well as the potential to play two other games against BCS schools...all without playing a 2 for one or 1 and done...its not false moral high ground...its common sense scheduling..my main beef is not really the moral argument(though there is no doubt that by giving in, it reduces the chances of ever making any real progress) as much as it is the practicality of doing 2 for ones etc and then it killing your schedule the following two years...its not a good thing...I am very happy with the way SIU schedules and the 4 at large bids prove we have done it right...and the way our league and schools in our league will make real progress is going deep into the tournament...thats how the Zags actually did it...they have done a few one dones but most of their games were nuetral site games...in the end, going deep in the tourney will ultimately get you the respect and the ability to climb to the next level....thats the reality of all of this.

[SiuCubFan8]

You have to wonder if SIU wants to go to the next level. I would like to see SIU play North Carolina and I think they can take on the Syracuse's of the world, it just appears they are more comfortable being the big fish in the small pond and staying a top mid-major.


C-lo is not giving into 1 and dones or 2 for 1s. I think he thought he could get another one with a BCS that needed to get a game and waited and they called his bluff. I am not saying this is right/wrong or if I disagree/agree just saying what is happening.

SIU does have IU, Arkansas and hopfully West Virginia or Minn or Virginia Tech. So they do have some decent opps on the schedule. Couple that with St. Mary's, Western Kentucky, St. Louis, La Tech, Murray State and they have put together a nice challenging schedule for 06-07.

I am not exactly sure how the exempt tournaments work now but in years you don't play in them having one or two 1 and dones with a BCS team wouldn't be a bad idea. Get some money and two nice games and the next year you get the BCS boys in an exempt tournament. Does that make any sense.

And on to your point of not wanting to take the next step. IMO, not sure if taking one games against BCS opponents is taking the next step (not a jab at WSU). Making deep NCAA runs on a consistant basis is what brings you to the next level.

[WuDrWu]

Let me go on record and say that I like SIU's schedule. It is a good mix and not devoid of quality games. I haven't seen all of it but so far it looks good.

My point is simply that given the chance to OCCASSIONALLY play the top tier teams, you take the chance. It is the only way to find out where you stand.

Again, congrats to SIU for putting together a challenging schedule.

[Maggie]

Making deep NCAA runs on a consistant basis is what brings you to the next level.

Agreed. But you have to get there first. I am not a fan of buy out games but if that is what a program has to do from time to time to put together a quality schedule -- then so be it.

BTW -- SIU's schedule is solid.

[SiuCubFan8]

Let me go on record and say that I like SIU's schedule. It is a good mix and not devoid of quality games. I haven't seen all of it but so far it looks good.

My point is simply that given the chance to OCCASSIONALLY play the top tier teams, you take the chance. It is the only way to find out where you stand.

Again, congrats to SIU for putting together a challenging schedule.

I agree it has quality team up and down.

[DawgieStyle]

I agree it has quality team up and down.

except that non D-1 game the southern mentions they are going to schedule...why oh why oh why............

[SiuCubFan8]

except that non D-1 game the southern mentions they are going to schedule...why oh why oh why............

Because why play a bad d1 team that will hurt your RPI?
Not the outcome we all wanted but rather play the D11 game that doesn't hurt your RPI than a RPI killer. That is why? And before you say we should have taken a BCS away game, I will say C-lo doesn't do that.

[WuDrWu]

What he said.

[WSUfan]

Isn't St. Mary's a name that comes up in the movie V for Vendetta?
SIU has a solid schedule. On the other hand, I'd love to see CU or SIU or WSU play Duke or KU or UConn or ... this year, even if it was an away game. I think the Valley teams would make good showings.

[DaShox]

Not to take anything away from SIU's schedule but Murray State should be a blow out. The Racers are one of the blankest D-I teams right now. But, that's ok.

SIU has 5 straight NCAA's, but they have three first round losses. Right? If you played a big boy it would better prepare you to make that deep NCAA run.

[mid-major fan]

You are taking too narrow a view when you say a DII game doesn't hurt your RPI. The RPI is simply a tool for the Selection Committee. If you play a DII school, and are on the bubble, the Committee will take another team and say something like " SIU had an opportunity to schedule a tough opponent and instead decided to schedule a non-DI team". Historically, few at large teams have a "voluntary" non-DI team on their schedule.

[SiuCubFan8]

Not to take anything away from SIU's schedule but Murray State should be a blow out. The Racers are one of the blankest D-I teams right now. But, that's ok.

SIU has 5 straight NCAA's, but they have three first round losses. Right? If you played a big boy it would better prepare you to make that deep NCAA run.

Murray will be on the schedule for years to come. It is a nice local rivalry game. Kind like the nice rivalry game the ILLINI have with Savanah St. :lol: .

[SalukiSpike]

Let me just say I like the St. Marys series. I had actually mentioned elsewhere that I hoped we would schedule a WCC team.

Not only is this potentially a high quality road win this year, it has added benefit if St. Marys does what it did in 2005...beat Gonzaga in the WCC tournament. It's the next best thing to playing the Zags.

Not to mention that hopefully St. Marys can A)finish 2nd in the WCC B)beat Gonzaga at least once in the regular season, preferably on their home court, and C)that St. Marys can win the WCC tournament...

if those possibilties come true, however likely they are or arent, this could turn into a scheduling coup.

[SiuCubFan8]

You are taking too narrow a view when you say a DII game doesn't hurt your RPI. The RPI is simply a tool for the Selection Committee. If you play a DII school, and are on the bubble, the Committee will take another team and say something like " SIU had an opportunity to schedule a tough opponent and instead decided to schedule a non-DI team". Historically, few at large teams have a "voluntary" non-DI team on their schedule.

Just a question did you do the research to look at the history of at large teams with what you call "voluntary" non-DI teams on their schedule?

What is a non-voluntary game when the dII team holds you up at gunpoint for the game?:grin:
I know tournaments.

[rjl]

Just as a point of information, I know that KU plays a few in-state DII schools every once in a while, like Emporia State or Pittsburg or Fort Hays State.

Not sure if those are exhibition games or not, though.

[txsaluki05]

Let me go on record and say that I like SIU's schedule. It is a good mix and not devoid of quality games. I haven't seen all of it but so far it looks good.

My point is simply that given the chance to OCCASSIONALLY play the top tier teams, you take the chance. It is the only way to find out where you stand.

Again, congrats to SIU for putting together a challenging schedule.


I completely agree. The schedule so far is overall solid, and as far as occassionally playing the top tier teams on their home courts goes, I'm with you. I'd love to play a one and done at Cameron Indoor Stadium or at UNC; the only way to prove you're not a mid major is to go out and win some of those games.

[rjl]

This is the short-sightedness that some schools and fans don't seem to get. If the top mid-majors refused to play these buy games, then the BCS schools that refuse to do one and one's with us will be forced to bring in lousy teams to fill out their home schedules. How long do you think fans of most schools would continue to fill their arenas to watch the Bethune-Cookmans of the world? If the good mid-major teams would hang tough on this issue, eventually BCS schools would have to give a one and one here and there to complete their schedules.

This is the hole in the theory, and the reason why it's never worked.

BCS teams are under no obligation to bring in quality opponents who aren't in a BCS conference.

If Kentucky wants a quality opponent, they schedule Illinois. If North Carolina wants a quality opponent, they schedule Arizona. Those teams are eager to do one-and-ones with each other as they'll both be good draws on their respective home courts, and they'll both be good enough for the sports headlines.

When BCS teams don't want a quality opponent, they schedule cupcakes from small conferences so that they can warm up for the next quality opponent.

That's the way BCS teams have done it for years. It works fine for them. Last year, their schedules were called out by the selection committee. So this year, they just add another BCS opponent and subtract a cupcake. No big deal.

A Missouri Valley School saying that they refuse to play a BCS team under unbalanced conditions is like the average looking girl calling you to say she wont put out anymore unless you buy her dinner and send her flowers... but you cut the phone call short because you're already buying flowers and dinner for all the hotties you can handle to go out with and calling up a few slump-busters at 4AM to boot.

"You don't want to play us? Oh well, your loss."

I'm not sure what 'lesson' you think this scheduling philosophy is giving big BCS schools. They are under no obligation or urgency to schedule mid-majors, and it's no sweat off their brow if they don't.

The only way we play them is to play by their rules. Some of them will buy us dinner and pick us up. Most of them want us to meet them at their house.

And we NEED to play them if we want to move forward in both national prominency and rankings.


Sorry, SIU fans. Didn't want to go out on that tangent. Congrats on the St. Mary's series. I know WSU fans enjoyed the San Fran series we had the last two years.

[dean_siu]

I am not sharp enough to start a poll, but I am really, sincerely, curious if SIU fans would rather have this game (and the return game next year) or a game at Syracuse with the hassle of still needing to find a game next year?

Not only would I take this series over the Syracuse game....I'd take this over the 2 for 1 deal (with one of the road games being a pseudo neutral site) which the Shockers took with LSU. It's all about integrity.

[SiuCubFan8]

off topic, but are the shuckers playing in a tournament this year?

[rjl]

off topic, but are the shuckers playing in a tournament this year?

We play over Christmas in Vegas.

Similar in concept to last year's Padre Island tournament we were in, we play the first two rounds at home, then play either USC or KState in Vegas.

http://www.reviewjournal.com/lvrj_home/2006/Jul-27-Thu-2006/sports/8714712.html

We're in the 'Classic' tournament. The 'Invitational' is over Thanksgiving weekend and features Florida and Kansas.

[DawgieStyle]

Because why play a bad d1 team that will hurt your RPI?
Not the outcome we all wanted but rather play the D11 game that doesn't hurt your RPI than a RPI killer. That is why? And before you say we should have taken a BCS away game, I will say C-lo doesn't do that.

we should have taken a BCS away game...there I said it. C-Lo is wrong.

[SiuCubFan8]

we should have taken a BCS away game...there I said it. C-Lo is wrong.

How can you say C-Lo is wrong when you don't know the options ect ect ect ect? I would trust C-Lo scheduling practieces over what you would do!

[SiuCubFan8]

We play over Christmas in Vegas.

Similar in concept to last year's Padre Island tournament we were in, we play the first two rounds at home, then play either USC or KState in Vegas.

http://www.reviewjournal.com/lvrj_home/2006/Jul-27-Thu-2006/sports/8714712.html

We're in the 'Classic' tournament. The 'Invitational' is over Thanksgiving weekend and features Florida and Kansas.

What is the tourney rule these days. didn't they change it last year?

[DawgieStyle]

How can you say C-Lo is wrong when you don't know the options ect ect ect ect? I would trust C-Lo scheduling practieces over what you would do!

that's your opinion. Don't be so naive to think that some buy out games weren't offered to SIU. I'm sure there were. If WSU got Syracuse...I'm sure there were some thrown SIU's way. Which ones? your right we don't know the specifics. But some common sense and the fact some other valley schools have been offered buy out games should give you a clue, we probably were as well.

[rjl]

What is the tourney rule these days. didn't they change it last year?

They just changed it a few months ago, actually. I think previously you were only able to play in one of these types of tournaments once every two years?

I think we scheduled the tournament fairly confident that the rule was going to change, so it was really just a formality.

[WSUbballer]

Dawgie Stlye, you clearly dont understand the logistics and problems of scheduling, particularly with the position SIU is in..dont get me wrong, im not a big D2 fan either but if you knew the facts you wouldnt make such statements...
Now, you understand what WSU (and any other strong mid-major) is going through.
This also proves that even in getting 1 for 1's, you can still have an ill-faded home schedule ...as in having to schedule in division II's.
Which is more to gain, a one-and done at a high quality major or a home game with a D-II?

[DoubleJayAlum]

Now, you understand what WSU (and any other strong mid-major) is going through.
This also proves that even in getting 1 for 1's, you can still have an ill-faded home schedule ...as in having to schedule in division II's.
Which is more to gain, a one-and done at a high quality major or a home game with a D-II?

Not a fair comparison. Many schools need home games for revenue purposes and simply giving up a home game is not a viable option.

The legitimate comparison here is do you give up the home and home (with first game on the road) to go on the road somewhere else for a one and done? When deciding the answer remember: (1) that the next year, your school's fans get to see a match-up on their own floor against a quality opponent if you opt for the home-and-home; and (2) its one less game in the schedule that you have to scramble to try and fill next year if you take the home-and-home.

[WSUbballer]

I'm not talking in terms of the financial aspects. I'm just simply asking in the terms of SOS aspects - those which help build an NCAA at-large profile.

[MikeKennedyRulz]

off topic, but are the shuckers playing in a tournament this year?

Yeah, playing in Vegas over Christmas, what about the Sadookies?

[MSNSaluki]

Not to take anything away from SIU's schedule but Murray State should be a blow out. The Racers are one of the blankest D-I teams right now. But, that's ok.

SIU has 5 straight NCAA's, but they have three first round losses. Right? If you played a big boy it would better prepare you to make that deep NCAA run.

C'mon, my friend. Don't try to correlate our three first-round losses to the lack of big boys on our schedule.
Remember, we lost to Missouri by 1 on a bull**** call and lost by 1 to Alabama on a last-second shot. I'm not sure playing a BCS school during those seasons would have changed the outcome.

[cufan]

Reading these posts and the coaches comments, it seems to boil down to the school's and coach's self-image. CU and SIU do not believe they have to prove themselves to anybody. The body of work they have compiled over the past 7 or 8 years speaks for itsself. They feel there programs are above one and dones or two for ones no matter who the opponent.

Some other programs have not yet achieved that image. If WSU is in the NCAA's for three or four more years, I predict WSU's feeling toward the one and done's will be much the same as SIU and CU is now. Of course, only time (and sustained success) will tell.

[mid-major fan]

RJI is 100% correct in his long post above. The BCS teams are not wasting one minute of time worrying about MVC teams and if they need to strengthen their schedule, they will simply schedule one more game against a team they do or might play in other sports like football. In other words, another BCS team.

A "voluntary" non-DI game is one you deliberately schedule, not one you end up playing in a tournament you happen to be in. How often have you heard the Selection Committee say that one bubble team got in over another bubble team because they went on the road and played tough teams? Scheduling a non-DI team is saying that you don't want to do that and would rather stay home and take a sure win.

[WuDrWu]

Not only would I take this series over the Syracuse game....I'd take this over the 2 for 1 deal (with one of the road games being a pseudo neutral site) which the Shockers took with LSU. It's all about integrity.

Thanks for the input on the SU game but if you truly believe the part about the LSU then you may want to seek professional help.

[rjl]

Reading these posts and the coaches comments, it seems to boil down to the school's and coach's self-image. CU and SIU do not believe they have to prove themselves to anybody. The body of work they have compiled over the past 7 or 8 years speaks for itsself. They feel there programs are above one and dones or two for ones no matter who the opponent.

Some other programs have not yet achieved that image. If WSU is in the NCAA's for three or four more years, I predict WSU's feeling toward the one and done's will be much the same as SIU and CU is now. Of course, only time (and sustained success) will tell.

So, no response to the debunking of your scheduling theory?

Oh, now it's a different argument. OK.

It's not about self image.

It's about wanting to move even further.

Honestly, Creighton and SIU are at the same point now as they were 5 years ago. They're still good teams fighting for national recognition. They'll get into the tournament, but it's always a 'feel-good' underdog story, and the best seeding they can hope for is a 7. If they make it to the S16, it's billed as an upset all over the media, as in nobody expected this cute little team from the Midwest to make it past the first round.

And they're still fighting for good games, and they're still the 'underdog' every time they play a BCS team, but the BCS teams still refuse to play one and ones.

WSU doesn't want to be at the same place in 5 years as it is now. WSU wants to progress. WSU doesn't want to be stagnant.

You say that you feel you're "above the one and dones", I think you're just complacent with where you're at.

[SiuCubFan8]

So, no response to the debunking of your scheduling theory?

Oh, now it's a different argument. OK.

It's not about self image.

It's about wanting to move even further.

Honestly, Creighton and SIU are at the same point now as they were 5 years ago. They're still good teams fighting for national recognition. They'll get into the tournament, but it's always a 'feel-good' underdog story, and the best seeding they can hope for is a 7. If they make it to the S16, it's billed as an upset all over the media, as in nobody expected this cute little team from the Midwest to make it past the first round.

WSU doesn't want to be at the same place in 5 years as it is now. WSU wants to progress. WSU doesn't want to be stagnant.

You say that you feel you're "above the one and dones", I think you're just complacent with where you're at.

I disagree.

[Shox21]

How can you say C-Lo is wrong when you don't know the options ect ect ect ect? I would trust C-Lo scheduling practieces over what you would do!


Okay - and to put it the same way


How can you say MT is wrong when you don't know the options ect ect ect ect? I would trust MT's scheduling practices over what you would do!

[SiuCubFan8]

Okay - and to put it the same way


How can you say MT is wrong when you don't know the options ect ect ect ect? I would trust MT's scheduling practices over what you would do!

I don't discount MTs scheduling practices.
They are two different ways and C-Lo's way has worked for 5 years and Turgs worked for one and looks like it is not going to stop working.:valley: :salukis: :shockers:

[salukisportsfreak75]

I am happy with the addition of SMC to our schedule, I believe that will be a quality game.

I am not too thrilled about the probable D-2 matchup. I would rather play a top tier team one and done.

But with that being said, I am not angry that Lowery is resorting to a D-2 game. I understand how extremely difficult it is for valley schools to schedule. I also understand that many different variables factor into the equation of scheduling, many of which I don't know about. So I am confident that Lowery will make a good decision, and I do not fault him if a D-2 game is what it comes down to. I'm sure he has done his best to give SIU the best possible schedule. Indiana, Arkansas, Saint Mary's, Saint Louis, Western Kentucky, Louisiana Tech, Bracket Buster, and potentially Virginia Tech/Minnesota/West Virginia is not too shabby of a schedule IMO. Throw all that in with the bloodbath known as the MVC and I think Lowery will have the Salukis very prepared for march.

On a final note, it is my personal opinion that Dawgie Style is an idiot. He must have been conceived by a 3-some that occurred between Gary Williams, Digger Phelps, and Coldblooded.

[SiuCubFan8]

On a final note, it is my personal opinion that Dawgie Style is an idiot. He must have been conceived by a 3-some that occurred between Gary Williams, Digger Phelps, and Coldblooded.

Funniest thing I have heard all day!:lol: :lol: :valley: :salukis:

[SalukiSpike]

I am very hopeful that we can avoid the d2 game. And have been perusing possibilities.

Akron-Men's
Type: Game
Dates: 11/10/2006 to 12/16/2006

Akron is looking for one game, will consider all options!

Houston-Men's
Type: Game
Dates: 11/13/2006 to 12/31/2006

Univ of Houston MBB is looking for three home and home contest for the 2006-2007 and 2007-2008 year(s)with the first game beginning at the University of Houston during 2006-2007 for at least two of the series. We can begin the third series ON THE ROAD!

Kent State University-Men's
Type: Game
Dates: 11/15/2006 to 1/1/2006

Looking to start two home and home series this year (2006-2007). Would like to start one at home and one on the road. Dates negotiable.

Pennsylvania-Men's
Type: Game
Dates: 11/18/2006 to 12/31/2006

Penn is looking for a game on one of the following dates during the 2006-07 season (in order of preference): 11/18, 11/25, 11/28, 12/30, 12/31

Montana-Men's
Type: Game
Dates: 11/18/2006 to 12/30/2006

Looking for teams to start a home and home series in Missoula 06-07 and we will return the following season. Gurantee 15,000 available to start in Missoula. Many dates available.

Providence College-Men's
Type: Game
Dates: 11/21/2006 to 12/20/2006

Providence College is looking to begin a Home and Home series, starting in Providence, for the upcoming 2006-7 Season. Available dates include, 11/21 or 22, 11/26, 12/9, 12/11, 12/19, and 12/20. Providence will return the game the following season.

Wisconsin-Milwaukee-Men's
Type: Tournament
Dates: 11/22/2006 to 12/23/2006

Need one more home game on either November 22-23 or December 22-23. Starting a home and home series.

Princeton University-Men's
Type: Game
Dates: 12/18/2006 to 1/28/2006

06-07 Season: Only need one game. Looking to start a home and home series ON THE ROAD on Jan 28. Can start on the road LOCALLY on Jan 29.

Louisville-Men's
Type: Game
Dates: 12/20/2006 to 12/20/2006

Louisville is looking for home game on Dec 19th or 20th. Would return the game in 08-09 if dates work out. Would pay great guarantee to for just one game also.

Bucknell University-Men's
Type: Game
Dates: 1/2/2007 to 1/3/2007

Looking for 1 game. Would like to start a home and home series on January 2nd, possibly 3rd.


Bolded ones seem most desirable, if they can be worked out. And you cant honestly tell me, with all of those options there, that we are backed into a corner and absolutely MUST take a game against a D2 opponent.

[SiuCubFan8]

I am very hopeful that we can avoid the d2 game. And have been perusing possibilities.


Bolded ones seem most desirable, if they can be worked out. And you cant honestly tell me, with all of those options there, that we are backed into a corner and absolutely MUST take a game against a D2 opponent.

Any game that starts on the road for SIU you can discount. We added St. Mary's for that. So out of those teams you can only consider the teams willing to start the series on the road.

[SalukiSpike]

Any game that starts on the road for SIU you can discount. We added St. Mary's for that. So out of those teams you can only consider the teams willing to start the series on the road.
:lol: arent me and you having this exact same discussion on SalukiTalk?

Bucknell, Penn, and Kent State doesn't list a preference on where the first game of the series is played, so they would maybe start @ SIU.

Akron is open to all possibilities...it just leaves us with a date to fill next year as they only need 1 game. Princeton wants to start the series on the road(which might make it the most reasonable matchup)

Also, if Providence does indeed want a 1 for 1 series, then you have to take it. Same as if you can get Louisville to absolutely commit to a return game season after next, you have to take it as well...no matter if it starts on the road. You dont pass up 1 and 1s against BCS schools.

[MSNSaluki]

So, no response to the debunking of your scheduling theory?

Oh, now it's a different argument. OK.

It's not about self image.

It's about wanting to move even further.

Honestly, Creighton and SIU are at the same point now as they were 5 years ago. They're still good teams fighting for national recognition. They'll get into the tournament, but it's always a 'feel-good' underdog story, and the best seeding they can hope for is a 7. If they make it to the S16, it's billed as an upset all over the media, as in nobody expected this cute little team from the Midwest to make it past the first round.

And they're still fighting for good games, and they're still the 'underdog' every time they play a BCS team, but the BCS teams still refuse to play one and ones.

WSU doesn't want to be at the same place in 5 years as it is now. WSU wants to progress. WSU doesn't want to be stagnant.

You say that you feel you're "above the one and dones", I think you're just complacent with where you're at.

It's starting to appear to me that may be the case.

[rjl]

Also, if Providence does indeed want a 1 for 1 series, then you have to take it. Same as if you can get Louisville to absolutely commit to a return game season after next, you have to take it as well...no matter if it starts on the road. You dont pass up 1 and 1s against BCS schools.

WSU finished a 1 and 1 with Providence last year, and I'd be surprised to see them take another one with a Valley opponent after the lambasting they got in their local media when Wichita State went in and beat the mighty Friars two years ago.

It was a good series for us, as Providence goes on to play some of the top teams in the nation (boosting our RPI by extension), but I'd be shocked to see it happen with another Valley team anytime soon.

[SalukiSpike]

WSU finished a 1 and 1 with Providence last year, and I'd be surprised to see them take another one with a Valley opponent after the lambasting they got in their local media when Wichita State went in and beat the mighty Friars two years ago.

It was a good series for us, as Providence goes on to play some of the top teams in the nation (boosting our RPI by extension), but I'd be shocked to see it happen with another Valley team anytime soon.

True, but push might come to shove they might take it because we ourselves are a quality OOC opponent.

I'd rather have the Louisville game, tho, if they would indeed commit to a return game the season after next.

[SiuCubFan8]

WSU finished a 1 and 1 with Providence last year, and I'd be surprised to see them take another one with a Valley opponent after the lambasting they got in their local media when Wichita State went in and beat the mighty Friars two years ago.

It was a good series for us, as Providence goes on to play some of the top teams in the nation (boosting our RPI by extension), but I'd be shocked to see it happen with another Valley team anytime soon.

Thanks for ruining it for us WSU!:valley:

[DawgieStyle]

I am happy with the addition of SMC to our schedule, I believe that will be a quality game.

I am not too thrilled about the probable D-2 matchup. I would rather play a top tier team one and done.

But with that being said, I am not angry that Lowery is resorting to a D-2 game. I understand how extremely difficult it is for valley schools to schedule. I also understand that many different variables factor into the equation of scheduling, many of which I don't know about. So I am confident that Lowery will make a good decision, and I do not fault him if a D-2 game is what it comes down to. I'm sure he has done his best to give SIU the best possible schedule. Indiana, Arkansas, Saint Mary's, Saint Louis, Western Kentucky, Louisiana Tech, Bracket Buster, and potentially Virginia Tech/Minnesota/West Virginia is not too shabby of a schedule IMO. Throw all that in with the bloodbath known as the MVC and I think Lowery will have the Salukis very prepared for march.

On a final note, it is my personal opinion that Dawgie Style is an idiot. He must have been conceived by a 3-some that occurred between Gary Williams, Digger Phelps, and Coldblooded.

it has come to my attention you simply can't handle the truth. Not everything the MVC or SIU touches is gold or right. When people get done patting the MVC on the back after last year and really focus on where we're at, where we're going, and what we REALLY need to do to get there, look me up. But for now most of you seem content with thinking last year was the greatest thing since sliced bread, and that if we don't progress from there, its ok. As well, most Saluki Faithful need to stop cutting Coach Lowery so much slack. He's been good, but not that good. His scheduling has simply been ok, which is evident by us still having to schedlue a D-2 team. His coaching...well its great some times, and poor some other, see Alaska and our poor poor offense. Yes, I know we focus on D, but there is no excuse to play as poorly on offense as we do, no excuse. Is Lowery young, yes, but he's a big time NCAA coach. It's time to expect a little more out of him instead of kissing his butt for getting to the tournament.

It's time to expect more in my opinion. I hate to agree with the Shocker fans, but ever since the sweet 16, they're right, we've basically been in the same place. The definition of ignorance is doing the same thing, but expecting different results. ITS TIME TO CHANGE! It's time to expect more, its time go on the road to play UNC and Illinois. It's time to play any one any where. It's time to not only Expect Great D! but Great offense as well! It's time to go to the next level....and to do that you have to change.

Again: The definition of ignorance is doing the same thing, but expecting different results.

[SalukiSpike]

it has come to my attention you simply can't handle the truth. Not everything the MVC or SIU touches is gold or right. When people get done patting the MVC on the back after last year and really focus on where we're at, where we're going, and what we REALLY need to do to get there, look me up. But for now most of you seem content with thinking last year was the greatest thing since sliced bread, and that if we don't progress from there, its ok. As well, most Saluki Faithful need to stop cutting Coach Lowery so much slack. He's been good, but not that good. His scheduling has simply been ok, which is evident by us still having to schedlue a D-2 team. His coaching...well its great some times, and poor some other, see Alaska and our poor poor offense. Yes, I know we focus on D, but there is no excuse to play as poorly on offense as we do, no excuse. Is Lowery young, yes, but he's a big time NCAA coach. It's time to expect a little more out of him instead of kissing his butt for getting to the tournament.

It's time to expect more in my opinion. I hate to agree with the Shocker fans, but ever since the sweet 16, they're right, we've basically been in the same place. The definition of ignorance is doing the same thing, but expecting different results. ITS TIME TO CHANGE! It's time to expect more, its time go on the road to play UNC and Illinois. It's time to play any one any where. It's time to not only Expect Great D! but Great offense as well! It's time to go to the next level....and to do that you have to change.

Again: The definition of ignorance is doing the same thing, but expecting different results.

So do you feel any of the teams I listed are viable options?

[DawgieStyle]

So do you feel any of the teams I listed are viable options?

louisville yes, and providence maybe.

[SiuCubFan8]

louisville yes, and providence maybe.

Neither would work cause they start on the road.

[C0|db|00ded]

This is a nice "filler" series for SIU-C. Now add a couple marquee games against top-brand programs and we are in business!!!


T


...:cool:

[DawgieStyle]

Neither would work cause they start on the road.

so go on the road....big deal, you have one less home game. As a fan if I had a choice or watching SIU on TV against a Big East school or at home against a D II school, I choose TV. A true fan understands this, the casual doesn't.

[SiuCubFan8]

so go on the road....big deal, you have one less home game. As a fan if I had a choice or watching SIU on TV against a Big East school or at home against a D II school, I choose TV. A true fan understands this, the casual doesn't.

It is called revenue and SIU needs all it can get.

[SalukiSpike]

Neither would work cause they start on the road.

But, Providence is a guranteed 1 and 1, and so is Lousiville if you can get them to be contractually obligated to a return date the season after next. Even if they start on the road, those are games you have to take(hell, isnt there a buyout of the CMU contract? If we can do that, do both Louisville and Providence:lol: )

But, as stated, Akron, Kent State, Bucknell, Penn, and Princeton all seem like pretty good options themselves.

[SiuCubFan8]

This is a nice "filler" series for SIU-C. Now add a couple marquee games against top-brand programs and we are in business!!!


T


...:cool:

IU, Arkansas, West Virginia, Minn, Va Techs (suppose to be decent next year.)

[DawgieStyle]

It is called revenue and SIU needs all it can get.

its called a buy out game.....they pay you to play there.

[C0|db|00ded]

IU, Arkansas, West Virginia, Minn, Va Techs (suppose to be decent next year.)

Illinois and Virginia Tech are for certain?


T


...:cool:

[SalukiSpike]

No one answered my question...isn't there a buyout of the CMU contract? If we could do that, and then at least sign, say, a Penn or Bucknell, and get them to come to our house, and then there would be no issue about signing a 1 for 1 with providence or a 1 for 1(in 2 years) against Louisville.


Illinois and Virginia Tech are for certain?

Indiana is for certain, as is Arkansas. If we beat Arkansas, we could play Minnesota If we win that game, we could play Virginia Tech or West Virginia. So, if everything goes right, we could walk out of Orlando with 3 w's vs BCS schools on neutral courts and still have one more guranteed game, on the road, vs indiana.

[SiuCubFan8]

Illinois and Virginia Tech are for certain?


T


...:cool:

???? Indiana University =IU
University of Illinois =UofI:doh: :doh: :doh: :doh:

Yes IU is for sure and so is Ark. WV, VA Tech, Minn are games that can happen in the tournament.

[DaShox]

It's all about growing the product. If you don't grow, it dies.

WSU has a long history of playing, beating and wanting to be the best. Once you taste the nectar, there is nothing else. With or without you, we will once again take our shot.

[dogdays]

One ncaa tournament in 20 years and a WSU fan is calling CU and SIU complacent...come on dude...SIU is not in the same place it was...we already have a minimum 5 games on national tv this season with more to come...5 years ago we had none...and last time I checked we have as many or more BCS schools on our schedule as the Shockers do...secondly like it or not SIU is considered one of the top two or three mids in the country with the abliity to play with the big boys...WSU has had one good year, they have 4 to go to catch up ...Turg has got it going and I hope they keep it up but get a clue ...SIU and CU are ahead of WSU when it comes to national recogition of their programs.. and will be for awhile.......not to say the wont get there because I think and hope they do..that said, dont let your arrogance hit you in the *** on the way out the door..

[rjl]

One ncaa tournament in 20 years and a WSU fan is calling CU and SIU complacent...come on dude...SIU is not in the same place it was...we already have a minimum 5 games on national tv this season with more to come...5 years ago we had none...and last time I checked we have as many or more BCS schools on our schedule as the Shockers do...secondly like it or not SIU is considered one of the top two or three mids in the country with the abliity to play with the big boys...WSU has had one good year, they have 4 to go to catch up ...Turg has got it going and I hope they keep it up but get a clue ...SIU and CU are ahead of WSU when it comes to national recogition of their programs.. and will be for awhile.......not to say the wont get there because I think and hope they do..that said, dont let your arrogance hit you in the *** on the way out the door..

Here we go again with the "1 NCAA tournament in 20 years" bull****.

Dude, like it or not, you are in the same place you were 5 years ago.

In fact, you may have regressed a little.

What was your last big-name BCS opponent? Indiana in 2002? That was 4-5 years ago (depending on if you played them in early winter or late fall of 02).

Regression is regression, and it doesn't matter if it's a WSU fan or a Bradley fan or a Indiana St. fan or a Illinois St. fan calling it out.

[SiuCubFan8]

Here we go again with the "1 NCAA tournament in 20 years" bull****.

Dude, like it or not, you are in the same place you were 5 years ago.

In fact, you may have regressed a little.

What was your last big-name BCS opponent? Indiana in 2002? That was 4-5 years ago (depending on if you played them in early winter or late fall of 02).

Regression is regression, and it doesn't matter if it's a WSU fan or a Bradley fan or a Indiana St. fan or a Illinois St. fan calling it out.

We are not in the same place we were 5 years ago.

[DawgieStyle]

We are not in the same place we were 5 years ago.

im not gonna say we're in the same place we were 5 years ago either, but I honestly don't believe we're as far as long as we should be, or could have been......I'm really not trying to agree with shocker fans, but its hard not to, especially about this scheduling thing. I really agree with the play anyone any where idea, it shows guts.

[rjl]

We are not in the same place we were 5 years ago.

That's cool if that's what you think, but I just don't see any evidence to show you've moved forward all that much.

I don't see any big name matchups, I don't see the national prominence, I don't see the deep advances into the NCAA tournament....

Maybe regression isn't the right word. I really don't think you are worse than you were 5 years ago, and like I said may very well be a better team, but my contention is still that there hasn't been much progress.

[cufan]

So, no response to the debunking of your scheduling theory?

Oh, now it's a different argument. OK.


Um, I must have missed where my "theory" was debunked. Since you lack the acumen to decipher the difference, the first post explained what the one and done's do to your future home schedule. WSU is apparently complacent with the state of its current home schedule. CU and WSU want quality home games for their fans. I don't see response that shows otherwise.

The second post added one more element to the scheduling quandry all of us find ourselves in. It is not a new argument, rather an observation. CU and SIU say we are above scheduling one and dones, WSU apparently isn't at that point, yet. Pretty simple.

None of us are happy with the scheduling problems we face, and to suggest CU and SIU are happy with the level they have achieved is just plain silly. Just different philosphies on how to balance getting better with the need to give your fans the kind of home games you feel your fans deserve. CU and SIU have one philosphy (and frankly I appreciate getting several excellent nonconference home games each year) and WSU has a different philosphy- but you enjoy the UMKC, Rockhurst and Chicago State games.

One more thought about how WSU is "taking advantage of its sweet 16 run" by scheduling the 2 for 1 with LSU and One and done with Syracuse: Why did it take a sweet 16 run to decide to get those? Don't you think you could have had one and done's with BCS schools each and every year? I certainly see a lot of teams on their schedules that didn't have sweet sixteen runs. Why all of sudden this year? Or is it that WSU got backed into a corner and had no choice? Hmmmmmmmm.

[DaShox]

WSU baseball was nationally prominent in part because we constantly grew the product. Every year Stephenson improved something -- better facilities, better schedules, better trips Hawaii, better better better -- that strategy enabled us to become a national champion and become one the best baseball programs of all time.

CU, SIU and every other MVC program has a differing philosophy on how to build a baseball program. How has your philosophy turned out?

You cannot sit on your butt for five years and not improve the facilities at SIU. That is not growing the product. There will come a day when SIU basketball hits a slump and you will wonder, why didn't we capitalize and do _____ after our S16 run?

WSU fans know what they want. They know how to get it and will die trying. You call it arrogance, we call it desire. Maybe we just want differnt things.

[blueblood]

It's all about growing the product. If you don't grow, it dies.

WSU has a long history of playing, beating and wanting to be the best. Once you taste the nectar, there is nothing else. With or without you, we will once again take our shot.


Do you really believe all the stuff you hear in your meetings. Get me a bucket I think I'm gonna puke.

[blueblood]

WSU baseball was nationally prominent in part because we grew the product. Every year Stephenson improved something -- better facilities, better schedules -- that strategy enabled us to become a national champion and become one the best baseball programs of all time.

You cannot sit on your butt for five years and not improve the facilities at SIU. That is not growing the product.


Do you really believe all the stuff you hear in your meetings. Get me a bucket I think I'm gonna puke.

[C0|db|00ded]

Um, I must have missed where my "theory" was debunked. Since you lack the acumen to decipher the difference, the first post explained what the one and done's do to your future home schedule. WSU is apparently complacent with the state of its current home schedule. CU and WSU want quality home games for their fans. I don't see response that shows otherwise.

The second post added one more element to the scheduling quandry all of us find ourselves in. It is not a new argument, rather an observation. CU and SIU say we are above scheduling one and dones, WSU apparently isn't at that point, yet. Pretty simple.

None of us are happy with the scheduling problems we face, and to suggest CU and SIU are happy with the level they have achieved is just plain silly. Just different philosphies on how to balance getting better with the need to give your fans the kind of home games you feel your fans deserve. CU and SIU have one philosphy (and frankly I appreciate getting several excellent nonconference home games each year) and WSU has a different philosphy- but you enjoy the UMKC, Rockhurst and Chicago State games.

One more thought about how WSU is "taking advantage of its sweet 16 run" by scheduling the 2 for 1 with LSU and One and done with Syracuse: Why did it take a sweet 16 run to decide to get those? Don't you think you could have had one and done's with BCS schools each and every year? I certainly see a lot of teams on their schedules that didn't have sweet sixteen runs. Why all of sudden this year? Or is it that WSU got backed into a corner and had no choice? Hmmmmmmmm.

CU and SIU say we are above scheduling one and dones, WSU apparently isn't at that point, yet. Pretty simple.


No. Mark Turgeon said we were above one and dones when he first signed on. Then he became intimately familiar with the BCS bull**** and decided to nut up and take the challenge head on just like his good buddy from Gonzaga.

See, there are two ways to approach this: One, you can tell the "brand name" programs they won and stick to scheduling only "nice", "fair" series with teams that have little chance of greatly altering your destiny. Or two, you can take the attitude that if the big boys wont come to me, I'll go to them. The latter is not the safest alternative but does offer the greatest potential of dragging oneself out of the quagmire that is mid-major status. Ask Gene Stephenson what he thinks about Wichita State being called a "mid-major". Sorry friends, we gotta do what we gotta do. The giant is awakening and she is very very hungry! :naughty:


T


...:cool:

[SiuCubFan8]

That's cool if that's what you think, but I just don't see any evidence to show you've moved forward all that much.

I don't see any big name matchups, I don't see the national prominence, I don't see the deep advances into the NCAA tournament....

Maybe regression isn't the right word. I really don't think you are worse than you were 5 years ago, and like I said may very well be a better team, but my contention is still that there hasn't been much progress.

IU doesn't count as a big name match-up and a home and home to boot. Arkansas is a pretty well known program in my book.

We are being mentioned year in and year out in peoples preseason polls (yes I know they don't mean anything) but it does mean we are getting more national prominence. The media knows about SIU and they are no sleeper or cinderala story anymore like every mvc team was 5 years ago.

We are recruiting better than we ever have. We have made significant progress in that area in the last five years. Evident by the 07 class and many of our 08 targets that wouldnt of even considered us 5 years ago.

We will be on national tv at least 5 times and that is the least amount of times. 5 years ago we would have been lucky to get on fox sports. this is another example of how the national media knows who SIU is.

We are well on our way of getting the Arena renovated. 5 years ago this was a pipe dream and now the archatechture should be done around xmass (still not moving fast enough for me but i'll take it).

We have had some tough luck in the NCAA except for the WV game last year where we laid an egg. We really could have followed up the sweet 16 year with 3 straight years of at least getting to the second round but lost two games by one point. That really could have made a different in our progression towards BCS status or what ever you want to call it.

Yes we could be farther along and have stuggled in many ways.
Trouble retaining coaches, trouble scheduling home and homes with BCS schools (except this year), lack of funding for team and paying coaches.

But we are in way better shape than we were 5 years ago!

[MoValley John]

Ask Gene Stephenson what he thinks about Wichita State being called a "mid-major".

But didn't Stephenson try to bolt to the BCS?

[dogdays]

6 years ago....2000...last ncaa bid...1995
last conference championship 1995 tourney...
no national tv games.....
no top 25 rankings

Today.....2006
5 ncaa tourneys in a row.One NIT
4 league championships..2002..03..04..05
1 Tourney championship 2006

1 Sweet 16 appearance
1 final thirty two appearance
BCS opponets during that time
.Iowa State, Ilinois, Indiana twice,Texas Tech,Georgia, Ok St,Vanderbilt,Arizona St,UCONN, Missouri, Alabama,(Wyoming 3 times and Colorado St twice, though they are bcs in name only)Hawaii twice,BYU,Colorado,Missisippi,Tennessee ...

By my count thats 16 games against BCS competition and 5 games against 2 schools who are bcs in football but name only in basketball...
Ranked top 25 three different seasons....
5 National Tv games this year miinimum
Add Indiana, Arkansas and potentially two more BCS schools this season....
Pre season top 25 in three different polls and top 50 in one poll....

SIU IS NOT IN THE SAME PLACE....You sound like George W .Bush...just because you say its so doesnt make it so......The facts are listed above...

[C0|db|00ded]

But didn't Stephenson try to bolt to the BCS?

Gene tried to go "home" but found it in disrepair.. then he cried.. then he returned to Wichita. Back to cranking out first round draft picks -business as usual.


T


...:cool:

[blueblood]

Anybody else feel like puking?

[rjl]

Um, I must have missed where my "theory" was debunked. Since you lack the acumen to decipher the difference, the first post explained what the one and done's do to your future home schedule. WSU is apparently complacent with the state of its current home schedule. CU and WSU want quality home games for their fans. I don't see response that shows otherwise.

The second post added one more element to the scheduling quandry all of us find ourselves in. It is not a new argument, rather an observation. CU and SIU say we are above scheduling one and dones, WSU apparently isn't at that point, yet. Pretty simple.


Nice. I lack the acumen, huh?

My post poked holes all over your unproven theory.

You know the one that said the fallacy in your sheduling system is the notion that BCS teams have to play non-BCS teams for quality opponents?

So lets not move on from that.

Here's the post again (http://www.ksnw.com/news/stories/14382615.html).

How about trying to issue a rebuttal without resorting to your little thesaurus to try and come up with other 'intelligent' sounding words that try to, ironically enough, rebuke my intelligence rather than the argument at hand?

Or do you lack the acumen? Hahaha...

None of us are happy with the scheduling problems we face, and to suggest CU and SIU are happy with the level they have achieved is just plain silly. Just different philosphies on how to balance getting better with the need to give your fans the kind of home games you feel your fans deserve. CU and SIU have one philosphy (and frankly I appreciate getting several excellent nonconference home games each year) and WSU has a different philosphy- but you enjoy the UMKC, Rockhurst and Chicago State games.

Once again, a Creighton fan falls back on the "you have bad home games" argument.

Are you seriously saying you'd cripple Creighton's chance to progress by playing higher ranked opponents just so you can see them play a few mid-ranked opponents at home?

One more thought about how WSU is "taking advantage of its sweet 16 run" by scheduling the 2 for 1 with LSU and One and done with Syracuse: Why did it take a sweet 16 run to decide to get those? Don't you think you could have had one and done's with BCS schools each and every year? I certainly see a lot of teams on their schedules that didn't have sweet sixteen runs. Why all of sudden this year? Or is it that WSU got backed into a corner and had no choice? Hmmmmmmmm.

The S16 run is what allowed us to get the LSU game on the schedule. LSU is coming to Wichita next year. Did you know that in the last 6 years LSU has only travelled out of the state six times to face a non-con opponent? One was Hawaii-Hilo, and the other five were UConn, West Virginia, Ohio State, Utah and Arizona.

Sorry, but the S16 run got us that one.

Why else would WSU schedule these games now, and not 5 years ago? How about the fact that these are conceivably winnable now, and not then? How about the fact that WSU has matched up VERY well vs. Big East teams the last two seasons, going 3-0, so the Syracuse game is a calculated risk?

I don't expect a reasonable response from you. So far, you've only addressed my rebuttals by trying to question my intelligence, and following that up with weak tangental arguments that only have anything to do with the subject at hand through loose association.

[blueblood]

When this thread started this morning Rasputin predicted, "I would count on the WSU intervention (look for the one-and-done is better than a series with a quality opponent), but I don't believe CU-SIU has had a skirmish for awhile."


Wow he's good.

[rjl]

6 years ago....2000...last ncaa bid...1995
last conference championship 1995 tourney...
no national tv games.....
no top 25 rankings

Today.....2006
5 ncaa tourneys in a row.One NIT
4 league championships..2002..03..04..05
1 Tourney championship 2006

1 Sweet 16 appearance
1 final thirty two appearance
BCS opponets during that time
.Iowa State, Ilinois, Indiana twice,Texas Tech,Georgia, Ok St,Vanderbilt,Arizona St,UCONN, Missouri, Alabama,(Wyoming 3 times and Colorado St twice, though they are bcs in name only)Hawaii twice,BYU,Colorado,Missisippi,Tennessee ...

By my count thats 16 games against BCS competition and 5 games against 2 schools who are bcs in football but name only in basketball...
Ranked top 25 three different seasons....
5 National Tv games this year miinimum
Add Indiana, Arkansas and potentially two more BCS schools this season....
Pre season top 25 in three different polls and top 50 in one poll....

SIU IS NOT IN THE SAME PLACE....You sound like George W .Bush...just because you say its so doesnt make it so......The facts are listed above...

I said 5 years ago, not 6.

And yes, I know that NOW you have the last 5 years' history under your cap, whereas 5 years ago you obviously did not.

But if SIU has been moving forward so much, how was it that WSU pretty much caught up, and in the case of preseason polls, passed?

[SiuCubFan8]

I said 5 years ago, not 6.

And yes, I know that NOW you have the last 5 years' history under your cap, whereas 5 years ago you obviously did not.

But if SIU has been moving forward so much, how was it that WSU pretty much caught up, and in the case of preseason polls, passed?

The level of the MVC as a whole as really changed in 5 years.

[MikeKennedyRulz]

Wow he's good.

Yes, you are.

[MoValley John]

Gene tried to go "home" but found it in disrepair.. then he cried.. then he returned to Wichita. Back to cranking out first round draft picks -business as usual.


T


...:cool:

All except no CWS trips in the last 10 years. It used to be so easy for WSU to make it to Omaha. While it's still easy for Stephenson to beat the cupcakes in the MVC, it's no longer as easy on the national scale. Stephensin left because he saw the writing on the wall. But I digress, this is a topic for the baseball thread.

[dogdays]

Even presented with the facts you cant own up..you were the one who questioned our BCS schedule...etc.etc...dont change the argument...now you went to the sweet 16 last year...great.. and it was good for the league...one year, doest not a program make...do it this year, next year, the following year, then you can brag that you have caught us and moved past us(assuming we dont go there with you).....now you are just one of 4 or 5 good teams in the Valley.... so using your logic, if you dont get to the sweet 16 this year has your progam fallen?...it is amazing how so many Shocker fans can be so arrogant after such a small taste of success. I would have never hoped for a Shocker melt down but you and some of your comrades make me wish it so. And lastly, from what I have seen SIU has been ahead of WSU in most but not all of the pre season polls...not sure that means much but just a reminder that this started with you saying SIU was in the same place they were 5 years ago, then you said maybe they had taken a step back...the facts prove you wrong...

[rjl]

Even presented with the facts you cant own up..you were the one who questioned our BCS schedule...etc.etc...dont change the argument...now you went to the sweet 16 last year...great.. and it was good for the league...one year, doest not a program make...do it this year, next year, the following year, then you can brag that you have caught us and moved past us(assuming we dont go there with you).....now you are just one of 4 or 5 good teams in the Valley.... so using your logic, if you dont get to the sweet 16 this year has your progam fallen?...it is amazing how so many Shocker fans can be so arrogant after such a small taste of success. I would have never hoped for a Shocker melt down but you and some of your comrades make me wish it so.

I said "change in the last 5 years", you posted the difference in the last 6 years because it showed a more drastic progression.

Those aren't the correct facts then, are they?

Now, presented with those facts, I'm sure you'll keep thinking what you think and I'll keep thinking what I think.

[DaShox]

But didn't Stephenson try to bolt to the BCS?

We paid Gene $1 million to stay. That's called stepping up and growing the product. Many MVC schools do not step up to keep their coaches and thus improve the product. Example #2: WSU stepped up to pay Turgeon $750K. Example #3 WSu stepped up and offered Eddie Fogler $1 million. Example #4: Jim Valvano was offered $1 million PER YEAR at WSU and he was scheduled to arrive in a private plane with his lawyer to tour the campus.

Puke if you want, but those are facts. SIU and everyone else has to step up and grow the product.

[DawgieStyle]

6 years ago....2000...last ncaa bid...1995
last conference championship 1995 tourney...
no national tv games.....
no top 25 rankings

Today.....2006
5 ncaa tourneys in a row.One NIT
4 league championships..2002..03..04..05
1 Tourney championship 2006

1 Sweet 16 appearance
1 final thirty two appearance
BCS opponets during that time
.Iowa State, Ilinois, Indiana twice,Texas Tech,Georgia, Ok St,Vanderbilt,Arizona St,UCONN, Missouri, Alabama,(Wyoming 3 times and Colorado St twice, though they are bcs in name only)Hawaii twice,BYU,Colorado,Missisippi,Tennessee ...

By my count thats 16 games against BCS competition and 5 games against 2 schools who are bcs in football but name only in basketball...
Ranked top 25 three different seasons....
5 National Tv games this year miinimum
Add Indiana, Arkansas and potentially two more BCS schools this season....
Pre season top 25 in three different polls and top 50 in one poll....

SIU IS NOT IN THE SAME PLACE....You sound like George W .Bush...just because you say its so doesnt make it so......The facts are listed above...

sigh...I agree with you to a point. We have improved our schedule, and we have made consecutive NCAA tourneys. and we have national tv games now. BUT! We are still a fringe top 25 team, have been from 3 years now. We still haven't advanced past the 2nd round of the NCAA since the sweet 16. And although we are scheduling some more Power schools, we aren't a) scheduling enough, b) beating them enough. We lost to ok st. We lost to Illinois, We lost to Alabama, We lost to Mo. We lost to W. Va. We lost to Uconn. Yes Yes, I know some of those were by one point, fact is, we lost. Again, as I've stated before, its time to expect more if we truly are going to take it to the next level.

[rjl]

sigh...I agree with you to a point. We have improved our schedule, and we have made consecutive NCAA tourneys. and we have national tv games now. BUT! We are still a fringe top 25 team, have been from 3 years now. We still haven't advanced past the 2nd round of the NCAA since the sweet 16. And although we are scheduling some more Power schools, we aren't a) scheduling enough, b) beating them enough. We lost to ok st. We lost to Illinois, We lost to Alabama, We lost to Mo. We lost to W. Va. We lost to Uconn. Yes Yes, I know some of those were by one point, fact is, we lost. Again, as I've stated before, its time to expect more if we truly are going to take it to the next level.

For once, I actually agree with DoggieStyle.

And it's not like I'm thumbing down my nose at Creighton or SIU, saying how better WSU is... I'm just wondering why the hell you guys aren't doing the same thing?

Why are you blindly following some scheduling theory that's never been proven and full of false assumptions, while there are proven theories out there for the taking?

Why are you actively attacking anyone who supports the proven theories, and their teams decision to use them?

[C0|db|00ded]

Even presented with the facts you cant own up..you were the one who questioned our BCS schedule...etc.etc...dont change the argument...now you went to the sweet 16 last year...great.. and it was good for the league...one year, doest not a program make...do it this year, next year, the following year, then you can brag that you have caught us and moved past us(assuming we dont go there with you).....now you are just one of 4 or 5 good teams in the Valley.... so using your logic, if you dont get to the sweet 16 this year has your progam fallen?...it is amazing how so many Shocker fans can be so arrogant after such a small taste of success. I would have never hoped for a Shocker melt down but you and some of your comrades make me wish it so. And lastly, from what I have seen SIU has been ahead of WSU in most but not all of the pre season polls...not sure that means much but just a reminder that this started with you saying SIU was in the same place they were 5 years ago, then you said maybe they had taken a step back...the facts prove you wrong...

it is amazing how so many Shocker fans can be so arrogant

It's a self-admitted flaw. The problem lies in the fact that our trend-line origin is prior to 1991. When we speak of history, tradition, and success we speak about national prowess and extend our scope over the last 40 years. If CU or SIU-C fans do the same they find themselves in a Division II bugaboo. :ermm: Our Sweet Sixteen run last year was cute but pretty much on par with successes of the past. We don't hope for a return to greatness, we expect it. :yes:


T


...:cool:

[MSNSaluki]

Maybe the reason SIU and Creighton haven't moved to new heights in the eyes of some on this board is because for four of the last five years we were carrying the rest of the conference. You guys WERE getting a little heavy.:yes: That could have impeded our progress.

Sorry ... trying to bring a little levity.:lol:

Seriously, I want to revisit this thread next May. At that point, maybe we can figure out who had the right idea. Arguing about it ad naseum in August isn't accomplishing anything!:valley:

[dogdays]

Prior to 1990 SIU's history..

NIT Championship 1967...when it still mattered.
Sweet 16 1977
1980-1988...drought...bad years..no doubt.
Since 1990
8 League or Tourney Championships
8 NCAA Appearances
4 NIT appearances
1 Sweet 16 appearance( as stated before)
1 Final 32 appearance(as stated before)

676-456 in the past 40 years.(since 1967)
32-24(I could be off a game one way or the other) against WSU in 30 years of Valley play....(since 1977)
Id say SIU has more tradition that you are aware of either....at least 40 years worth....30 years against the Shockers in the Valley as well.

[iSASO]

Maybe the reason SIU and Creighton haven't moved to new heights in the eyes of some on this board is because for four of the last five years we were carrying the rest of the conference. You guys WERE getting a little heavy.:yes: That could have impeded our progress.


I like that. Yet, no one was more pissed off than WSU fans for its lack of performance. For a program which has had NCAA D1 success, great players and great coaches anything less than the Top 50 is reprehensible, disgusting and completely unacceptable.
I'm glad we finally hired the right guy: Don Beggs.

[rjl]

Prior to 1990 SIU's history..

NIT Championship 1967...when it still mattered.
Sweet 16 1977
1980-1988...drought...bad years..no doubt.
Since 1990
8 League or Tourney Championships
8 NCAA Appearances
4 NIT appearances
1 Sweet 16 appearance( as stated before)
1 Final 32 appearance(as stated before)

676-456 in the past 40 years.(since 1967)
32-24(I could be off a game one way or the other) against WSU in 30 years of Valley play....(since 1977)
Id say SIU has more tradition that you are aware of either....at least 40 years worth....30 years against the Shockers in the Valley as well.

Hahaha....

http://www.valleytalk.net/showthread.php?t=1729&page=21

How about reading this thread starting with post #384, then #401-on to see how the argument you just made got clowned on yesterday.

[blueblood]

We paid Gene $1 million to stay. That's called stepping up and growing the product. Many MVC schools do not step up to keep their coaches and thus improve the product. Example #2: WSU stepped up to pay Turgeon $750K. Example #3 WSu stepped up and offered Eddie Fogler $1 million. Example #4: Jim Valvano was offered $1 million PER YEAR at WSU and he was scheduled to arrive in a private plane with his lawyer to tour the campus.

Puke if you want, but those are facts. SIU and everyone else has to step up and grow the product.

Typical distortion. He came back because he was stupid and didn't do his homework. When he got to his new job at good old OU and found it a mess. He went back to WSU with his tail between his legs in an embarrassment for all involved. WSU was stupid enough to take him back. If they did give him a raise after that then double WOW. Nice try at changing history.

[DaShox]

In 1990, Gene was courted by OU. Stephenson accepted a 10 year $1 million annuity to stay at WSU (and, after taxes, recently received his $800,000+). In 1991 and 1993 WSU played for the national championship. Nothing has been distorted. Try and keep up.

The entire point was that MVC programs have to raise the bar. If you want to compete with the big boys, you have to pony up.

[MSNSaluki]

I like that. Yet, no one was more pissed off than WSU fans for its lack of performance. For a program which has had NCAA D1 success, great players and great coaches anything less than the Top 50 is reprehensible, disgusting and completely unacceptable.
I'm glad we finally hired the right guy: Don Beggs.

You guys are definitely moving in the right direction again. Beggs is good people.

[blueblood]

1990???????Are you kidding me??????? Try to keep up? WSU dropped the ball by the debacle that happened in recent times. Like last year. Wow thats funny if you think we forgot that embarrassment. Your proud of that????????I can't believe you even went there. Your losing it. I'm off to watch preseason football see you later.

[DaShox]

You pay to play. The problem is that most MVC schools can't or won't pay so they don't play.

WSU wants to play so we pay. I absolutely respect SIU's 5 year run. But, when it comes to the next level, SIU needs to decide if they are going to fold or get in the game.

[MoValley John]

You pay to play. The problem is that most MVC schools can't or won't pay so they don't play.

WSU wants to play so we pay. I absolutely respect SIU's 5 year run. But, when it comes to the next level, SIU needs to decide if they are going to fold or get in the game.

I didn't know the Valley had a poker league. Cool.

[SiuCubFan8]

You pay to play. The problem is that most MVC schools can't or won't pay so they don't play.

WSU wants to play so we pay. I absolutely respect SIU's 5 year run. But, when it comes to the next level, SIU needs to decide if they are going to fold or get in the game.

When is WSU going to get the level of making the NCAA 5 straight times?
I am just confused on the level you are talking about. Right now WSU is on the level of making the NCAAs one year out of 20.

[iSASO]

When is WSU going to get the level of making the NCAA 5 straight times?

Maybe WSU is at that level right now.
We'll know in four years.
When is SIU going to keep a coach after a Sweet 16 appearance or build an arena appropriate for the caliber of its program?

[underdawg2]

Maybe WSU is at that level right now.
We'll know in four years.
When is SIU going to keep a coach after a Sweet 16 appearance or build an arena appropriate for the caliber of its program?


We don't need any of that crap--we got thug ball to entertain us
:lol: :banana:


The yellow blood will flow when the Shocks come to town--bring that big stack of wheat with you too.:yes:

[iSASO]

:sleeping:

[Scalare76]

Dang...I tried to keep my mouth shut and fingers tied far away from the keyboard. I have been a diehard Saluki fan forever it seems...through thick and thin. I have also been a diehard Valley fan. I saw WSU get beat by Vandy in the NIT two years ago. Not because of Vandy, but because I was there to cheer on the Shocks.

What in the bleep was I thinking? What in the heck has happened to some of you WSU fans? Seriously? I like Coldblooded regardless if I agree with him or not. But some of you are just so messed up in your thinking I am dumbfounded.

I was happy to see WSU go to the Sweet 16 just like I was Bradley. The difference is that the Bradley fans are tolerable and are not full of themselves.

WSU holds nothing over the recent success of Creighton or SIU. In fact, the success of both of these schools has done wonders for the Valley. And mark my words...SIU will have one of the best teams I have ever seen next year, and if it was any other year I would say they walk away with the Valley title...NOT NEXT YEAR....Tolliver, Funk, and company are going to be flat out dangerous. I do not think you will see two great teams in the Valley like this ever again. I give CU the nod for favorites, but damn, SIU is going to be tough too.

WSU fans...pipe your holes. I don't mean this to all of you. Some of you I met and all was cool. Some, but not all, of the posters from WSU really need to get a grip. One run to the Sweet 16 does not make you an expert. If you can accomplish what Altman has done then I will salute all of you, but until then you are still a one hit wonder like Alford was.

[Scalare76]

Screw it....Overall UNI has had more success than WSU in the last decade plus two.

Go Panthers!! <---arch enemy of SIU

[blueblood]

Dang...I tried to keep my mouth shut and fingers tied far away from the keyboard. I have been a diehard Saluki fan forever it seems...through thick and thin. I have also been a diehard Valley fan. I saw WSU get beat by Vandy in the NIT two years ago. Not because of Vandy, but because I was there to cheer on the Shocks.

What in the bleep was I thinking? What in the heck has happened to some of you WSU fans? Seriously? I like Coldblooded regardless if I agree with him or not. But some of you are just so messed up in your thinking I am dumbfounded.

I was happy to see WSU go to the Sweet 16 just like I was Bradley. The difference is that the Bradley fans are tolerable and are not full of themselves.

WSU holds nothing over the recent success of Creighton or SIU. In fact, the success of both of these schools has done wonders for the Valley. And mark my words...SIU will have one of the best teams I have ever seen next year, and if it was any other year I would say they walk away with the Valley title...NOT NEXT YEAR....Tolliver, Funk, and company are going to be flat out dangerous. I do not think you will see two great teams in the Valley like this ever again. I give CU the nod for favorites, but damn, SIU is going to be tough too.

WSU fans...pipe your holes. I don't mean this to all of you. Some of you I met and all was cool. Some, but not all, of the posters from WSU really need to get a grip. One run to the Sweet 16 does not make you an expert. If you can accomplish what Altman has done then I will salute all of you, but until then you are still a one hit wonder like Alford was.


Footnote; WSU posters were experts 2 years ago. Remember an NIT appearance was better than an NCAA tourney appearance?

[MSNSaluki]

Save your typing strength.
It's not going to change anything.
Our friends from WSU have us outnumbered at this point.
Let the season do the talking.:valley:

[blueblood]

I will see CU-SIU in Carbondale before I die. Without it things would not be complete. I'll get yelled at, things thrown and spit on me. It will happen. I can't wait.

[DaShox]

This level:
http://www.infoplease.com/ipsa/A0747682.html

And this level
http://www.infoplease.com/ipsa/A0747700.html

And this level:
http://www.infoplease.com/ipsa/A0748079.html

And this level:
http://www.infoplease.com/ipsa/A0748043.html

And this level:
http://www.infoplease.com/ipsa/A0748135.html


Maybe we get there. Maybe not. But we WILL try.

[blueblood]

In 1985 Disco was king.

[rjl]

Dang...I tried to keep my mouth shut and fingers tied far away from the keyboard. I have been a diehard Saluki fan forever it seems...through thick and thin. I have also been a diehard Valley fan. I saw WSU get beat by Vandy in the NIT two years ago. Not because of Vandy, but because I was there to cheer on the Shocks.

What in the bleep was I thinking? What in the heck has happened to some of you WSU fans? Seriously? I like Coldblooded regardless if I agree with him or not. But some of you are just so messed up in your thinking I am dumbfounded.

I was happy to see WSU go to the Sweet 16 just like I was Bradley. The difference is that the Bradley fans are tolerable and are not full of themselves.

WSU holds nothing over the recent success of Creighton or SIU. In fact, the success of both of these schools has done wonders for the Valley. And mark my words...SIU will have one of the best teams I have ever seen next year, and if it was any other year I would say they walk away with the Valley title...NOT NEXT YEAR....Tolliver, Funk, and company are going to be flat out dangerous. I do not think you will see two great teams in the Valley like this ever again. I give CU the nod for favorites, but damn, SIU is going to be tough too.

WSU fans...pipe your holes. I don't mean this to all of you. Some of you I met and all was cool. Some, but not all, of the posters from WSU really need to get a grip. One run to the Sweet 16 does not make you an expert. If you can accomplish what Altman has done then I will salute all of you, but until then you are still a one hit wonder like Alford was.

What the hell is up with you people?

A wrong statement is a wrong statement is a wrong statement.

It doesn't matter who says it's wrong. If it's wrong, it's wrong.

Get it?

Yeah, I'm a WSU fan, but we could have not won a game in the last 50 years and me saying that SIU and Creighton haven't progressed much in the last 5 years wouldn't be any less true, would it?

What games are you getting now that you didn't get 5 years ago?

What national recognition are you getting now that you didn't 5 years ago?

What rankings are you getting now that you didn't 5 years ago?

What caliber of recruits are you getting now that you didn't 5 years ago?

What level of respect are you getting from BCS teams now that you didn't 5 years ago?


And what are SIU and Creighton doing to progress now? I can tell you one thing, you sure as hell DO NOT progress by having the best non-conference team you schedule yourself to play be ranked over 10 spots below you.

How is that a chance to move up? You're expected to win, and win handily. If you do win, it's "Yeah.... they're kinda ranked where they should be."

How about trying to step up a rung on the ladder? How about trying to climb your way into recognition? How about forgetting about a failed theory and actually having the cajones to play someone you may not be expected to beat, and if they wont come to you... you take the fight to them?

THAT is stagnation. THAT is not progression.

The last I checked, there's only room for 25 teams in any top 25 poll I can find. And you can bet there isn't a single BCS team that's interested in helping us establish ourselves there.

You can keep playing the same teams you played 5 years ago, or you can increase the level of your competition comensurate with the level you're trying to achieve.

THAT is progress. THAT isn't stagnation.

[rjl]

In 1985 Disco was king.

I tried to take this post on a pro-Valley tangent and post similar stats from Creighton's history, but couldn't find any.

Think you could help me out?

[DaShox]

Believe me, WSU fans understand our Sweet 16 is only a step. That's all it is. One step.

[Aargh]

Something in one of DaShox links caught my eye.

It's this link:

WSU's Elite 8 run, but notice CU's score in the Mideast Regional (http://www.infoplease.com/ipsa/A0748043.html)

St. Joe's - 59, CU - 57

Then notice St. Joe's run to the E8.

St. Joe's - 49, DePaul - 48. St. Joe's - 42, BC - 41. Wow! 3 games decided by a total of 4 points.

[MSNSaluki]

Let's end this bickering.

Wichita State has balls.
SIU and Creighton don't.

Please lock this thread.

[barkeep1967]

OK I have to comment on this one first.

But if SIU has been moving forward so much, how was it that WSU pretty much caught up, and in the case of preseason polls, passed?


Try watching more than one year of basketball before you post on a message board. Anybody who thinks SIU is not in a thousand times better shape than they were five years ago is blind. Case and Point before they won in STL they were being mentioned by the media for an at large. If you look at there schedule their should have been no mention from anybody. Look at the recruiting classes. 3 years ago Shaw was celebrated as an incredible get. Now Fay who I think is better than Shaw at the same point in developement is hardly mentioned. 5 national tv games at least. how many more on the U and fox ?



Now on to the schedule. SIu is playing a tough slate this year. Most of the big games are on the road. I have no problem with working on the Offense against a d-11 team at home early. I would think most of the WSU fans would appreiciate that also. It doesen't matter how good you are. Don't over extend yourself early.

[SalukiSpike]

Looking at that list of teams even more closely, I found these:

Utah Valley State-Men's
Type: Game
Dates: 11/16/2006 to 1/20/2007

LOOKING TO PLAY GUARANTEE GAME ON THE ROAD.

Utah State University-Men's
Type: Game
Dates: 12/18/2006 to 12/18/2006

Utah State is looking to start one home and home series on the road for the 06-07 season.The game must be played on Dec.18th or the 23rd.

Old Dominion University-Men's
Type: Game
Dates: 12/20/2006 to 12/30/2006

1 H & H series starting on the road (after Christmas preferred)but can play Dec 20 if necessary.

Pennsylvania-Men's
Type: Game
Dates: 12/30/2006 to 12/30/2006

University of Pennsylvania is looking for a home or away game on December 30


ODU(2005-2006 RPI: 69), Utah State(2005-2006 RPI: 46), Utah Valley St.(2005-2006 RPI: 279), Penn(2005-2006 RPI: 96).

3 non RPI killers there that are looking for road games, as well as a weak but suitable UVS team(RPI was higher than 315 CMU last year).

Come on, I know we could get one of those teams. Preferably Utah State.

And I am not trying to