Explaining Wichita State

[DaShox]

People are who they are because of their life experiences. And in this case, WSU fans are who they are because of their experiences. The same goes for every school in the MVC. With that, let’s begin.

Eye of the Tiger
When asked which of your bitter rivals have you beaten on the big stage and stung them in such a way that it won't be soon forgotten? When have you gone out and taken something from them which caused them to respect and fear you 10 years later?"

The responses were:
SIU won at Creighton (MVC)
CU vs Larry Bird’s Sycamores (MVC)
CU beat SIU in MVC Championship in St. Louis in 2002 and 2003 (MVC)
SIU beats Bradley @ 2006 MVC Tournament (MVC)
CU vs Houston in the mid 70’s.
Indiana State vs. Indiana (regular season)
Creighton ends Nebraska's 7year win streak (regular season)
SIU beats #24 Indiana (regular season)
CU’s Terrell Taylor vs Florida (NCAA Tournament).
Bradley beats KU (2006 NCAA Tournament)
Bradley beats Pitt (2006 NCAA Tournament)
SIU beats #2 Western Illinois University ( football)
I went to a div. 2 school in Illinois, with no defining moments.
We don't really have a rival except to a certain degree, Nebraska

Thanks to those who contributed. Please understand this is not a criticism or flame.

As you can see, most MVC schools have never had to go through a big boy in-state rival on the national stage. For whatever quirky reason, CU hasn'’t ever met/beat Nebraska in the NCAA Tournament or the College World Series. SIU hasn’t ever met/beat Illinois in the NCAA Tournament or CWS. Same with Indiana State-Indiana, UE-Indiana, Mo State-Missouri, Ill St.-Illinois. That is not a criticism, but it has an impact on the personality of your fan base.

What in the heck has happened to some of you WSU fans?

Shocker Fan Experiences
WSU went through rival KU in the Sweet 16. We won and went to the Elite Eight to play LSU.
WSU went through rival Oklahoma State in baseball. One word describes the WSU-OSU rivalry: Hatred.
WSU went through Oklahoma in baseball.

Oklahoma State fans don’t like us. Oklahoma fans don’t like us. They refer to us as arrogant, cocky, intolerable, etc etc. And you know what? We love it!. The reason they don’t like us is that we are a threat and mirror image of them. We don’t take their shi*, we don’t bow down and and we don’t live in fear of them. Deep down they respect that. For OSU & OU, their lifeblood is intimidation tactics and they are appalled that WSU has the cajones to intimidate them. “They’re from the Valley, who the hell do they think they are?” In baseball, we took their tactics & personality and shoved it down their throat. Baking cookies and holding hands does not get you to the top.

Big Boy wants you to act like a mid major and we refuse to do it. That really pisses him off.

Part of the reason there is such a clash between WSU and other MVC fans, is in part because of life experiences. Through the years, many MVC schools just have not had to go down the hardened rivalry road to earn respect. I honestly believe that if others in the MVC had the same rival experiences as WSU, there would be a much different attitude toward growing the product and taking on the LSU & Syracuse’s of the world.

[SiuCubFan8]

I honestly believe that if others in the MVC had the same rival experiences as WSU, there would be a much different attitude toward growing the product and taking on the LSU & Syracuse’s of the world.

You act like no one else in the MVC plays major teams. SIU IS PLAYING IU AND ARKANSAS and possibly more! How is that not trying to take on some of the best competition in the NCAA? IU is a top 5 program in the history of the NCAA. Better than the LSU's and SU's of the world. I just don't get your point there. Both schools have good teams on the schedule. Both schools schedules are most likley pretty darn even. I haven't seen WSUs whole schedule but I wouls bet if you broke them down they would be very very close.

I do agree that your baseball sucess has given you some great rivalries with BCS schools, no doubt about that. But we are talking about basketball not baseball.

[DoubleJayAlum]

As you can see, most MVC schools have never had to go through a big boy in-state rival on the national stage.

So when did the Oklahoma state line change so that Wichita became part of Oklahoma?

[DaShox]

The responses are exactly what I expected. You don't want to listen or understand why WSU fan is the way he is. Infantile responses look like petty jealousy.

The success of WSU baseball has had a cross over effect on the WSU fan base. Long before there was ever baseball, we took it to Hank Iba and Oklahoma State. Ralph Miller created the desire and the experiences. Baseball simply enhanced the desire.

Does Indiana consider SIU a rival? Or is Indiana's rival Purdue? Does Arkansas consider SIU a rival? Or is Arkansas' rival LSU?

[SiuCubFan8]

The responses are exactly what I expected. You don't want to listen or understand why WSU fan is the way he is.

The success of WSU baseball has had a cross over effect on the WSU fan base. Before there was ever baseball, we took it to Hank Iba and Oklahoma State. Baseball enhanced the desire but it didn't create the desire. Basketball created the desire.

I understand what you said. Answer my question though.

[C0|db|00ded]

People are who they are because of their life experiences. And in this case, WSU fans are who they are because of their experiences. The same goes for every school in the MVC. With that, let’s begin.

Eye of the Tiger
When asked which of your bitter rivals have you beaten on the big stage and stung them in such a way that it won't be soon forgotten? When have you gone out and taken something from them which caused them to respect and fear you 10 years later?"

The responses were:
SIU won at Creighton (MVC)
CU vs Larry Bird’s Sycamores (MVC)
CU beat SIU in MVC Championship in St. Louis in 2002 and 2003 (MVC)
SIU beats Bradley @ 2006 MVC Tournament (MVC)
CU vs Houston in the mid 70’s.
Indiana State vs. Indiana (regular season)
Creighton ends Nebraska's 7year win streak (regular season)
SIU beats #24 Indiana (regular season)
CU’s Terrell Taylor vs Florida (NCAA Tournament).
Bradley beats KU (2006 NCAA Tournament)
Bradley beats Pitt (2006 NCAA Tournament)
SIU beats #2 Western Illinois University ( football)
I went to a div. 2 school in Illinois, with no defining moments.
We don't really have a rival except to a certain degree, Nebraska

Thanks to those who contributed. Please understand this is not a criticism or flame.

As you can see, most MVC schools have never had to go through a big boy in-state rival on the national stage. For whatever quirky reason, CU hasn'’t ever met/beat Nebraska in the NCAA Tournament or the College World Series. SIU hasn’t ever met/beat Illinois in the NCAA Tournament or CWS. Same with Indiana State-Indiana, UE-Indiana, Mo State-Missouri, Ill St.-Illinois. That is not a criticism, but it has an impact on the personality of your fan base.

What in the heck has happened to some of you WSU fans?

Shocker Fan Experiences
WSU went through rival KU in the Sweet 16. We won and went to the Elite Eight to play LSU.
WSU went through rival Oklahoma State in baseball. One word describes the WSU-OSU rivalry: Hatred.
WSU went through Oklahoma in baseball.

Oklahoma State fans don’t like us. Oklahoma fans don’t like us. They refer to us as arrogant, cocky, intolerable, etc etc. And you know what? We love it!. The reason they don’t like us is that we are a threat and mirror image of them. We don’t take their shi*, we don’t bow down and and we don’t live in fear of them. Deep down they respect that. For OSU & OU, their lifeblood is intimidation tactics and they are appalled that WSU has the cajones to intimidate them. “They’re from the Valley, who the hell do they think they are?” In baseball, we took their tactics & personality and shoved it down their throat. Baking cookies and holding hands does not get you to the top.

Big Boy wants you to act like a mid major and we refuse to do it. That really pisses him off.

Part of the reason there is such a clash between WSU and other MVC fans, is in part because of life experiences. Through the years, many MVC schools just have not had to go down the hardened rivalry road to earn respect. I honestly believe that if others in the MVC had the same rival experiences as WSU, there would be a much different attitude toward growing the product and taking on the LSU & Syracuse’s of the world.

It's a great day...


T


...:cool:

[DawgieStyle]

The responses are exactly what I expected. You don't want to listen or understand why WSU fan is the way he is.

The success of WSU baseball has had a cross over effect on the WSU fan base. Before there was ever baseball, we took it to Hank Iba and Oklahoma State. Baseball enhanced the desire but it didn't create the desire. Basketball created the desire.


there is no excuse, what ever you come up with, for the way most of you act. Arrogant and Entitled. Get over your self Da Shox. Get over Wichita. They are just another Mid west Univ. in the middle of po dunk. Just like the rest of us. Your cows crap in your pastures they same as they do in ours.

Please, we've all had rivals. Heck even SIU won a national champions with Walt. Wichita hasn't gone through anymore than any other valley school or mid west univ. You are nothing special. If peopel actually watched college baseball, or cared about it...you might have an argument. But you've had success in a sport in which ultimately no one really gives a damn about. Heck you don't even have football. Call us when you score a touch down.

[MoValley John]

Once again, I have to pull out the "song" card. Eye of the Tiger is a song. Nothing more, nothing less. It was written for the soundtrack about a ficticious charactor in a ficticious boxing movie. While music can stir emotion, it has nothing to do with reality. It is a song. Other teams do not cower because of any teams past successes. Sports are what they are in the present, not in the past. Right now WSU is on a roll, the same can't be said for them 6-7 years ago. The recent success was built on good recruiting and good coaching, not a song, tradition or arrogant fans.

As for the WSU/OSU baseball thing, that is something that is simply stuck in the heads of WSU fans. It's not bad to feel this way, it keeps you wanting a winning program, but OSU really doesn't worry at all about WSU. They have much bigger fish to worry about than WSU. Consider Texas, Texas Tech, Baylor, aTm, as of the last few years, Nebraska and this year even Kansas and Mizzou. If the beat down that WSU put on OSU had any lasting effect, it went out the window when the Big XII was formed. The Big XII is a murderers row of great teams. Maybe that's why Stephenson tried to leave.

[MSNSaluki]

The responses are exactly what I expected. You don't want to listen or understand why WSU fan is the way he is. Infantile responses look like petty jealousy.

The success of WSU baseball has had a cross over effect on the WSU fan base. Before there was ever baseball, we took it to Hank Iba and Oklahoma State. Baseball enhanced the desire but it didn't create the desire. Basketball created the desire.

Does Indiana consider SIU a rival? Or is Indiana's rival Purdue? Does Arkansas consider SIU a rival? Or is Arkansas' rival LSU?

Da Shox ... we're tight, my man.:yes: I look forward to your posts.:yes: You and I have a good history on this board.:yes: So please take this in the right vein and know it's not a flame ... I don't think anybody on this board gives a rat's *** why you guys are like you are. I think I can safely say that 96.4 percent of the posters on this site who aren't from Wichita are starting to get tired of getting all things Shocker jammed up our *****es every day. We can appreciate your success last year and we do realize you guys have a lot of good things going your way but quite frankly, it's starting to get old. Very old.

Just had to get that off my chest.:shockers: :salukis: :valley:

[Rasputin]

'Da Shox ... we\'re tight, my man.:yes: I look forward to your posts.:yes: You and I have a good history on this board.:yes: So please take this in the right vein and know it\'s not a flame ... I don\'t think anybody on this board gives a rat\'s *** why you guys are like you are. I think I can safely say that 96.4 percent of the posters on this site who aren\'t from Wichita are starting to get tired of getting all things Shocker jammed up our *****es every day. We can appreciate your success last year and we do realize you guys have a lot of good things going your way but quite frankly, it\'s starting to get old. Very old.\r\n\r\nJust had to get that off my chest.:shockers: :salukis: :valley:\r\n\r\nThe supposed \"class of the valley\" definetely has some class issues in their fanbase. :no: Too bad the majority of \"those\" fans are the ones who live on VT.'

[iSASO]

It was a nice try DaShox, but as expected they've never had to go through a Texas, Okie State, Arizona State enroute to a NCAA D1 National Championship. They've never had to deal with taking down a national power that was located within 100 miles.

They've never had to fight that battle, so it's hard to relate. Don't expect them to.

:innocent:

[outpost]

How come nobody mentioned WSU's win over the Big Bad Longhorn Mo-fo's from Texas back in 1989? Yeah, it's admittedly pretty far in the past.

If true in ISASO's original "Eye of the Tiger" thread, that would be a huge oversight, IMHO. I'm even mad at myself for overlooking it.

Yeah, this is the basketball forum, but nothing has happened between WSU and Texas since that day, and I suppose that many will say that it was just a fluke. But We'll never know, because they won't agree to play us home-and-home (absolutely zero chance of this as long as Tom Holliday is on the staff down at Texas). And Gene is absolutely right in demanding it. Like it or not, we made believers out of Texas and the college baseball world that day.

I had followed WSU throughout the post-season, and was at that game. WSU was a team of destiny that year. Nobody was going to get in their way.

I will add this. If anyone has a problem with Syracuse basketball not leaving the State of NY to play OOC games, just look to Texas.

[DawgieStyle]

It was a nice try DaShox, but as expected they've never had to go through a Texas, Okie State, Arizona State enroute to a NCAA D1 National Championship. They've never had to deal with taking down a national power that was located within 100 miles.

They've never had to fight that battle, so it's hard to relate. Don't expect them to.

:innocent:

once again, get over your selfs.

[MoValley John]

I will add this. If anyone has a problem with Syracuse basketball not leaving the State of NY to play OOC games, just look to Texas.

I think just about everyone on this board also hates Texas. Well except for the beatdown they put on USC in football. But then again, that was in the past, so the hating can begin again.:innocent:

[SiuCubFan8]

It was a nice try DaShox, but as expected they've never had to go through a Texas, Okie State, Arizona State enroute to a NCAA D1 National Championship. They've never had to deal with taking down a national power that was located within 100 miles.

They've never had to fight that battle, so it's hard to relate. Don't expect them to.

:innocent:

:puke:

Do some of you WSU fans acctually believe some of the crap that comes out on this board?

[jt45]

It was a nice try DaShox, but as expected they've never had to go through a Texas, Okie State, Arizona State enroute to a NCAA D1 National Championship. They've never had to deal with taking down a national power that was located within 100 miles.

They've never had to fight that battle, so it's hard to relate. Don't expect them to.

:innocent:
3 words: Men's Basketball Forum

[DaShox]

I don't think anybody on this board gives a rat's *** why you guys are like you are.

Scalera76 asked the question. So, in good faith I answered it. If you don't want the answer, don't ask the question.

Before the beginning of last year, I told the board that traditionally the MVC reaches it's greatest height when WSU and BU lead the pack. Oh, how the board howled. They swore ANYONE can do it. Drake can do it! I was full of crap.

What happened? Who led the way? BU and WSU led the way. Told ya so.

You can take the rivalry information and howl about it or you can learn from it.

[iSASO]

"Do some of you WSU fans actually believe some of the crap that comes out on this board?"

Do other MVC fans think they can conjure up a face-off (involving their school) that equals the caliber of WSU vs. Texas on CBS nationwide for the NCAA D1 National Championship?

Who can find a game involving their school that pitted an in-state basketball rival in the Sweet 16 of the NCAA Basketball Tournament?

It's the same thing.

[barkeep1967]

Oklahoma State fans don’t like us. Oklahoma fans don’t like us. They refer to us as arrogant, cocky, intolerable, etc etc.

Just a guess here but I doubt Oaklahoma State fans are the only ones that feel that way. :ermm:

[SiuCubFan8]

"Do some of you WSU fans actually believe some of the crap that comes out on this board?"

Do other MVC fans think they can conjure up a face-off (involving their school) that equals the caliber of WSU vs. Texas on CBS nationwide for the NCAA D1 National Championship?

Who can find a game involving their school that pitted an in-state basketball rival in the Sweet 16 of the NCAA Basketball Tournament?

It's the same thing.

We are not talking about Baseball! We know the past, present and future of shocker baseball is great, if not the greatest thing ever.:grin:

[MoValley John]

If only Al Gore were 25 or so years younger. We would have had internet forums and everyone would have to read all about how Indiana State has outgrown the Valley. How their recent strings of success was going to bring them to the promised land, how they were just better than everyone else. How nobody else in the Valley knows what it's like to have rivalries within a hundred miles, how nobody else knows about raising expectations, taking it to the next level and seeing things in a biiger picture than just the Valley. That would have been the drivel spewed by Indiana State, and with Larry Bird, they would have been well justified to have that opinion. Then again, everyone else on the board would curse them, hate them, berate them, call them silly, on and on.

WSU has recent success and I for one, applaud them. They are trying to keep the ball rolling. Maybe it will work, maybe it won't. Maybe they will roll into LSU and Syracuse, get rolled in both games, a player or two get injured and their season spirals out of control. Maybe they split, make a top 3 finish in the Valley, get a decent seed in the NCAA and win a game. Maybe they win both, roll through the Valley, get a top 4 seed and make the final 4.

Time will tell. For now, congratulate them and let them enjoy the ride.

[rjl]

If only Al Gore were 25 or so years younger. We would have had internet forums and everyone would have to read all about how Indiana State has outgrown the Valley. How their recent strings of success was going to bring them to the promised land, how they were just better than everyone else. How nobody else in the Valley knows what it's like to have rivalries within a hundred miles, how nobody else knows about raising expectations, taking it to the next level and seeing things in a biiger picture than just the Valley. That would have been the drivel spewed by Indiana State, and with Larry Bird, they would have been well justified to have that opinion. Then again, everyone else on the board would curse them, hate them, berate them, call them silly, on and on.

WSU has recent success and I for one, applaud them. They are trying to keep the ball rolling. Maybe it will work, maybe it won't. Maybe they will roll into LSU and Syracuse, get rolled in both games, a player or two get injured and their season spirals out of control. Maybe they split, make a top 3 finish in the Valley, get a decent seed in the NCAA and win a game. Maybe they win both, roll through the Valley, get a top 4 seed and make the final 4.

Time will tell. For now, congratulate them and let them enjoy the ride.

Thing was, at the time when Indiana St. was that good, there weren't really many other conferences one could aspire to in the nation over the Missouri Valley.

The MVC was "the shiat" back then.

[DaShox]

Basketball

MidWest Regional Semi Final
WSU 66, KU 65. Wichita State goes to the Elite Eight.

When have you ever beaten Illinois, Indiana, Nebraska, Missouri for the right to go to the Elite Eight? Never.

Most of you have never even been to Elite Eight. But yet, we are supposed to take your advice on how to get there? Mark Turgeon has his Final Four ring. Maybe it's me, but um, I'm going with the guy that's been there.

[SiuCubFan8]

Basketball

MidWest Regional Semi Final
WSU 66, KU 65. Wichita State goes to the Elite Eight.

When have you ever beaten Illinois, Indiana, Nebraska, Missouri for the right to go to the Elite Eight?

Never.

So that game makes it ok for WSUs fans to act like *****holes?

[Rasputin]

Basketball

MidWest Regional Semi Final
WSU 66, KU 65. Wichita State goes to the Elite Eight.

When have you ever beaten Illinois, Indiana, Nebraska, Missouri for the right to go to the Elite Eight? Never.

Most of you have never even been to Elite Eight. But yet, we are supposed to your advice on how to get there? Maybe it's me, but um, I'm going with the guy that's been there.

Stop living in the past. :innocent:

Afterall, you guys were the ones barking that whatever CU, SIU, or UNI did prior to your sweet 16 run is void. Remember? :naughty:

[MoValley John]

Basketball


When have you ever beaten Illinois, Indiana, Nebraska, Missouri for the right to go to the Elite Eight?

Never.

Your answer would also be never. WSU has. Their players have, but fans, they were only along for the ride. Sorry to flame, but I hate the you and I thing when you and I are only spectators.

[outpost]

Semantics, MVJ.

And since we're talking in terms of technicalities SIU-CF-88, watch the stereotyping (So that game makes it ok for WSUs fans to act like *****holes?....... that implies all of us and I don't agree with it).

[SiuCubFan8]

Semantics, MVJ.

And since we're talking in terms of technicalities SIU-CF-88, watch the stereotyping (So that game makes it ok for WSUs fans to act like *****holes?....... that implies all of us and I don't agree with it).

Actually most are not. I was asking a question if that game makes it ok (should have said some fans) to be an a-hole.

BTW- this whole next level argument, schedule thing I do not get? It is like some people are totally discounting SIUs games with IU, Akansas and the possibility of WV, VA tech or Minn. Whatever its the weeknd soon.

[outpost]

It seems as if most people are more willing to debate (and I use that term loosely) the merits of WSU @ Syracuse and WSU v. LSU than discuss SIU's schedule.

It's all good, we all need to do our best to pick off some of these games and set the stage for another great Valley conference season.

[DaShox]

Scheduling alone will not get you to the next level.

[TrueBlueJay]

Funny how there are no Creighton flamers in this thread - pretty much just WSU and SIU...

Now the $64,000 question. What do all of these flame threads in the past few weeks have in common? What is the common denominator?

[jt45]

Funny how there are no Creighton flamers in this thread - pretty much just WSU and SIU...

Now the $64,000 question. What do all of these flame threads in the past few weeks have in common? What is the common denominator?
OOOH....I know the answer to this one.......turd stirring WSU fans!!

[DaShox]

Um, people who have never been to the Elite Eight or Final Four telling others how to get there?

[SiuCubFan8]

Scheduling alone will not get you to the next level.

I am fully aware of that. The main way to get to the "NEXT LEVEL" is to get to the NCAA tournament and then make some nice deap runs.

[rjl]

OOOH....I know the answer to this one.......turd stirring WSU fans!!

So, are you telling me that it's not Creightonians that go around and drop the first salvo against WSU in almost every instance, even in threads that have to do with neither..... say the SIU vs. St. Mary's thread?

Huh...

Cause that's not what the posts indicate.

[SiuCubFan8]

Um, people who have never been to the Elite Eight or Final Four telling others how to get there?

The landscape of college bball has changed imensly since you guys were there. So go ahead and use that stategy and I bet you won't get back.

[DaShox]

I am fully aware of that. The main way to get to the "NEXT LEVEL" is to get to the NCAA tournament and then make some nice deap runs.

And fix your arena. I think Mark knows what it takes to get to the Final Four. Hopefully, it will happen.

[SiuCubFan8]

And fix your arena.

It is not my Arena.
If I could do it myself financially it would be done.
And we are getting it fixed, just for you.:lol:

[MoValley John]

It is not my Arena.
If I could do it myself financially it would be done.
And we are getting it fixed, just for you.:lol:


Once again, semantics.

[landmark]

Basketball

MidWest Regional Semi Final
WSU 66, KU 65. Wichita State goes to the Elite Eight.

When have you ever beaten Illinois, Indiana, Nebraska, Missouri for the right to go to the Elite Eight? Never.

Most of you have never even been to Elite Eight. But yet, we are supposed to take your advice on how to get there? Mark Turgeon has his Final Four ring. Maybe it's me, but um, I'm going with the guy that's been there.

Ummm when has he ever lead you guys there? he got his final four ring playing for the team that you guys seem to hate the most and even then he was a reserve. I am not trying to egg this on but come on get over yourself. Hell why cant SIU claim then that we have at least won a major college postseason tournament when we won the NIT in the 1960's. all this thread does is expalin why no one can stand most of you

[SiuCubFan8]

Basketball

MidWest Regional Semi Final
WSU 66, KU 65. Wichita State goes to the Elite Eight.

When have you ever beaten Illinois, Indiana, Nebraska, Missouri for the right to go to the Elite Eight? Never.

Most of you have never even been to Elite Eight. But yet, we are supposed to take your advice on how to get there? Mark Turgeon has his Final Four ring. Maybe it's me, but um, I'm going with the guy that's been there.

I actually have been to an Elight Eight back when I was in 8th grade. It was a great time. :doh:

[DawgieStyle]

actually at this point, im all for WSU fans acting as arrogant, loud mouthed, entitled jerks. Let them talk about how great they were, are, and will be this season. Let them build them selves up SOOOOOOOOOOOOOO HIGH, so that when SIU and CU beat the hell out of them this up coming season it will be the biggest crash we've ever seen. Mark my words to, it's gonna happen. WSU in no way shapes up with what SIU and CU have returning. Last year was a fluke for WSU and it will be exposed this year. They sucked until last year, and they will suck after this year. They were just a blip on SIU and CU's radar last year. Shocker fans have fun back in choke land and the NIT this year. It's coming back to stadium near you. SIU and CU have proven they can sustain succes in basketball, which is something Wichia has never proven, and I don't see that trend changing.

[outpost]

Funny how there are no Creighton flamers in this thread - pretty much just WSU and SIU...

Now the $64,000 question. What do all of these flame threads in the past few weeks have in common? What is the common denominator?

TBJ - you've already earned your wings. :innocent: No need to stand at the gate and beg for them any longer.

[DaShox]

Ummm when has he ever lead you guys there? he got his final four ring playing for the team that you guys seem to hate the most and even then he was a reserve.

Ummmmm...I never said he did.

Turgeon KU Career
Turg finished 1st in games played, 9th in assts, 10th in stls

[SATX Shocker]

It would seem to be impossible but I find DaShox’ analysis to objective and relevant while at the same time being subjective and irrelevant. Does it explain a lot about the psychological effects of the competitive environment that Shocker fans have found themselves in over the past few decades?

Without a doubt, I believe it does.

But where I see this whole argument breaking down is in relation to ValleyTalk. I believe that if you asked all ValleyTalk posters to name the five most annoying Shocker posters you would have a list that represents a VERY LARGE portion of all worthless, argumentative, and/or generally uninformed posts by Shockers fans on this board. Those posts are where a large amount of the hatred comes from.

In other words, while I believe that DaShox’ analysis is a reasonable explanation for the average Shocker fan – particularly one older than 30 or so – it does not explain the dissension and hatred on this board because it doesn’t apply to the Shocker fans who are causing that dissension and disagreement. I won’t name any particular posters, but when I think of my own “top 5 annoying Shocker fans”, with only one possible exception does yield a poster that alludes to ancient (80s and before) Shocker history and seems to have any sense whatsoever of how the 50s-80s shaped the program and its fans.

Conversely, my “top 5 Shocker fans” who clearly have a sense of history of the program continually bring relevant and non-divisive (by ValleyTalk standards) content to the table. Since this is complimentary, I’ll name Outpost and Aargh.

It seems to me that the 80/20 rule has reared its head again – 20% of the posters causing 80% of the ****storm.

That’s my two cents, whether anyone agrees or disagrees. Can’t we all just…

… never mind. What fun would that be?

[rjl]

In very few instances will you actually find a Shocker fan instigating the argument, though.

If someone says what my team is doing is bad, and I disagree with him, you better believe I'm going to call his BS out.

[C0|db|00ded]

actually at this point, im all for WSU fans acting as arrogant, loud mouthed, entitled jerks. Let them talk about how great they were, are, and will be this season. Let them build them selves up SOOOOOOOOOOOOOO HIGH, so that when SIU and CU beat the hell out of them this up coming season it will be the biggest crash we've ever seen. Mark my words to, it's gonna happen. WSU in no way shapes up with what SIU and CU have returning. Last year was a fluke for WSU and it will be exposed this year. They sucked until last year, and they will suck after this year. They were just a blip on SIU and CU's radar last year. Shocker fans have fun back in choke land and the NIT this year. It's coming back to stadium near you. SIU and CU have proven they can sustain succes in basketball, which is something Wichia has never proven, and I don't see that trend changing.

Thanks.


T


...:cool:

[iSASO]

actually at this point, im all for WSU fans acting as arrogant, loud mouthed, entitled jerks. Let them talk about how great they were, are, and will be this season. Let them build them selves up SOOOOOOOOOOOOOO HIGH, so that when SIU and CU beat the hell out of them this up coming season it will be the biggest crash we've ever seen. Mark my words to, it's gonna happen. WSU in no way shapes up with what SIU and CU have returning. Last year was a fluke for WSU and it will be exposed this year. They sucked until last year, and they will suck after this year. They were just a blip on SIU and CU's radar last year. Shocker fans have fun back in choke land and the NIT this year. It's coming back to stadium near you. SIU and CU have proven they can sustain succes in basketball, which is something Wichia has never proven, and I don't see that trend changing.

NO hype, no expectations, no bragging will ever change the fact that WSU will always finish 9th in the conference. Anything above that is unrealistic.

[Jayfan]

It was a nice try DaShox, but as expected they've never had to go through a Texas, Okie State, Arizona State enroute to a NCAA D1 National Championship. They've never had to deal with taking down a national power that was located within 100 miles.

They've never had to fight that battle, so it's hard to relate. Don't expect them to.

:innocent:

You act like you strapped up and got out on the field? Keep taking down those national powers we are proud of you! Please start 6 more threads just like this one ! I have included a link for your future posts for your convience.

http://www.valleytalk.net/forumdisplay.php?f=9
:banana:

:bash: :banghead: :bash: :bash: :bash: :banghead: :bash: :banghead: :bash: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :bash: :banghead: :bash: :banghead: :bash: :banghead: :cursing: :bash: :banghead: :cursing: :bash: :banghead: :chair: :bash: :banghead: :banghead: :chair: :chair: :chair: :cursing: :bash: :bash: :banghead:

[Jayfan]

Scheduling alone will not get you to the next level.

The smartest thing I have heard from a Shucker in a week!

[WSUfan]

One of the reasons I visit other boards is because of the kneejerk reactions based on the school a poster supports which show up here. For example, a lot of people here were critical of WSU's game with Syracuse and called it a sellout while many WSU fans supported this game, at least in part. I suspect that if SIU or CU had announced the same deal with Syracuse, WSU fans would have been critical and SIU or CU fans would have been supportive. If WSU beats Syracuse and this helps the MVC RPI, how will CU or SIU fans react? What if it was CU that beat Syracuse?

I wish people would just grow up and talk about basketball. I think Drake will be dangerous this year but the Bulldogs are flying under the radar. MSU gives SIU trouble and could contend for the MVC title but little is said about them. There are more schools in the MVC than just CU, SIU and WSU! Don't they deserve some attention?

[MoValley John]

There are more schools in the MVC than just CU, SIU and WSU! Don't they deserve some attention?

:sycamores:

[DaShox]

"The letter of the rules isn't violated all that much. But the intent of those rules is hammered to hell. In order to make money and get exposure, we're always looking at ways to use the rules, to use players. --Mike Krzyzewski (Raw Recruits, pg 118)

The Code
The NCAA put the Bradley Braves on probation in 1986, forcing coach Dick Versace to flee to the pros. "I blasted them nationally in 'eighty two because they didn't select us for the tournament, even though we were the outright champions of the Missouri Valley. I'd plotted for four years to build that team. Dave Gavitt was head of the Big East (and NCAA Tournament selection committee chairman) and he wanted to get his teams in to make a lot of money for his conference. So they chose Boston College over us. They're 8-6 with wins over Stonehenge, Bentley, Merrimack and St. Anselm. And people told me, "You can't say this. You're right. But you're making them look bad, and down the road they're going to get you. And they did." -- Dick Versace ( RawRecruits, pg 119)

The purpose of this thread
The big boys have rules. Bradley found out the hard way. Much has changed about basketball since 1986, but the rules to the country club remain the same. You can listen and learn from others experiences or you can find out things the hard way.

[rjl]

Scheduling alone will not get you to the next level.

No, it won't.

This year's schedule 5 or 6 years ago... or even 2 or 3 years ago... would have been worthless to us. We would have been WAY overpowered by Syracuse and LSU.

The schedule we had for those years, however, was just what we needed.

The stakes are getting higher, the team is getting better, so the schedule must get tougher.

This year, we've got the cards we wanted (talent on the team, national publicity, preseason rankings) so we're going all in.

The time to take the next step is now.

[DaShox]

You really think there's integrity?

"Midmajor and lesser Division I teams found it harder and harder to persuade a high profile school to play them. And without a strong enough schedule, all the wins in the world won't get you an at large bid to the NCAA's. If the powers won't schedule you, what could you do?

A handful of schools figured out what you could do. You could make it worth the coach's while to schedule you.

Memphis State's Dana Kirk was paid $10,000 by organizers of the Winston Tire Classic. In exchange, Kirk delivered his team to the tournament in Los Angeles."

Their rules. Their game. You pay to play or you and your moral high ground sit at home by the phone for a call that will never come.

[Jayfan]

What if it was CU that beat Syracuse?



The Quest would go crazy!:jays:

[DaShox]

This billion dollar tv contract is the paramount example of the injustices in the game. We're the whoremasters". --Dale Brown, LSU

[C0|db|00ded]

In todays discussion with Katz here was the major question that cought my attention. Makes you proud to be a Shocker.


Dean (Las Vegas, NV): Out of all the mid-major programs on the rise, who do you feel has the best chance of becoming the "next Gonzaga"?

Andy Katz: (3:36 PM ET ) Wichita State.
Great coach.
Great facility.
Great fans.
Getting elite recruits.
Starting to get home-and-home games with elite players

Anybody remember when I started calling WSU a media darling? It's all unfolding before my very eyes.

Thank You Don, Jim, and Mark.


T


...:cool:

[DaShox]

Nice find, CB. This is what happens when you commit to taking the next step. SIU had their chance.

[barkeep1967]

Nice find, CB. This is what happens when you commit to taking the next step. SIU had their chance.


what are you talking about had their chance?

5 straight NCAA'S and counting.
Invited to a made for ESPN tournament over Thanksgiving.
Minimum 5 national TV appearances.
At least a mention in every pre season poll I have seen.
Plans finally in motion for a new arena.
A very good 07 class coming in next year.


Where exactly has SIU failed to capitalize ?

[DaShox]

No new arena. You've had plenty of time to renovate or build a new place. Face it, you shi* the bed.

[MSNSaluki]

Nice find, CB. This is what happens when you commit to taking the next step. SIU had their chance.

I'm sorry ... I've kept from replying as long as I can.

SIU has taken the next step. By my count, four more of them than Wichita State has. When you go to four more NCAA tournaments in a row (and win a game in the process), then you can pop off about the Salukis and give us advice on how to run our program.

And by the way, Andy Katz has given us the summer hand-job in the past, too. I just hope you guys can live up to his (and your) hype.:salukis:

[barkeep1967]

No new arena. You've had plenty of time to renovate or build a new place. Face it, you shi* the bed.

Sorry SIU has not had to impress anybody with their arena in home NIT games lately. They were too busy playing in the NCAA. Seriously are you saying SIU is failing because their Arena is not good enough ? Talk about a reach even for a Shucker fan.

[MSNSaluki]

Sorry SIU has not had to impress anybody with their arena in home NIT games lately.

Good one, Barkeep!:salukis:

[DaShox]

Yes, I think SIU is failing because they don't have a new arena. Right now, you don't see that but it will eventually catch up to you. Just like worn down Levitt caught up with WSU.

Tulsa went through coaches and it eventually caught up with them. Build your barn and pay Lowry what he's worth. Two dances and you are paying Lowry how much? If you want to take the next step you have to pony up.

[dawg_tired nemesis]

I think the only knock you can have for SIU is they have not repeated a trip to the sweet 16. But they have weathered the storm of 2 coaching changes, have a somewhat smaller budget to work with but still manage muscle their way into the ncaa's year after year. If WSU can do what SIU has done the last 5 years I will be very happy, but I will also be a little disappointed in thinking this last year is the best WSU could accomplish in a season. If the current coaching staff stays at WSU I really think a return to the sweet 16 or even further is very possible.

[DaShox]

It has been said there are plans for an arena. Exactly, what year does SIU plan on finishing the arena?

[MSNSaluki]

Yes, I think SIU is failing because they don't have a new arena. Right now, you don't see that but it will eventually catch up to you. Just like worn down Levitt caught up with WSU.

Tulsa went through coaches and it eventually caught up with them. Build your barn and pay Lowry what he's worth. Two dances and you are paying Lowry how much? If you want to take the next step you have to pony up.

My man, we do see it. Every stinking time I walk into that arena I see it. That's what makes what we've accomplished the last five years even more satisfying.

Unfortunately, I don't see our situation changing anytime soon. Saluki Way and a proposed renovation of SIU Arena are on the drawing board but it might be years before they break ground. We simply don't have the economic resources other schools in the Valley have. Them's the facts.

While I have painted a pretty bleak picture, we've somehow managed to make five straight NCAA tournaments. In four of those years, our weak-assed and scared scheduling philosophy somehow got us an at-large bid - SIU is the only mid-major team in NCAA history to earn 4 straight at-large bids.

Five straight NCAA tournaments? I'm afraid Wichita State can't make that claim even if you take into account its entire storied basketball history. You guys might have a city-wide circle-jerk if you pulled off the feat.

So in closing, you guys just worry about yourselves. I think we've got things under control in Carbondale.

Oh, and you pompus pricks better hope the Shocker Express continues to roll because as soon as you run off the tracks, you're gonna have a lot of folks from this board on your asses for a long, long, long, time.

PS - Every ******* and perceived ******* from Wichita just made it on my ignore list.

[WSUfan]

My man, we do see it. Every stinking time I walk into that arena I see it. That's what makes what we've accomplished the last five years even more satisfying.

Unfortunately, I don't see our situation changing anytime soon. Saluki Way and a proposed renovation of SIU Arena are on the drawing board but it might be years before they break ground. We simply don't have the economic resources other schools in the Valley have. Them's the facts.

While I have painted a pretty bleak picture, we've somehow managed to make five straight NCAA tournaments. In four of those years, our weak-assed and scared scheduling philosophy somehow got us an at-large bid - SIU is the only mid-major team in NCAA history to earn 4 straight at-large bids.

Five straight NCAA tournaments? I'm afraid Wichita State can't make that claim even if you take into account its entire storied basketball history. You guys might have a city-wide circle-jerk if you pulled off the feat.

So in closing, you guys just worry about yourselves. I think we've got things under control in Carbondale.

Oh, and you pompus pricks better hope the Shocker Express continues to roll because as soon as you run off the tracks, you're gonna have a lot of folks from this board on your asses for a long, long, long, time.

PS - Every ******* and perceived ******* from Wichita just made it on my ignore list.

Joey: I usually respect your opinions. However people here will be on WSU's case whether the Shockers win or lose. Look at your own comments above. You're already mad at WSU because of a few Shocker posters' remarks. Such reactions are one reason ValleyTalk is becoming increasingly worthless IMO.

[WSUbballer]

This thread was completely worthless..IMO

[barkeep1967]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This thread was completely worthless..IMO

That statement is one I will agree with.

[dogdays]

Certainly KU doesnt think of WSU as their rival....and I seriously doubt OSU gives WSU the slightest thought process as far as any rivalry goes(maybe in baseball)...and since WSU fans love to bring up the past and how glorius it was , SIU finished 2nd in the college world series in baseball in the early 70' s(I know that that was forever ago, but thats what WSU continues to site is the past..) and had to go through all their "rivals to get there so since that is part of our frame of reference and our life experience do we get to act like arrogant a holes too...here is the problem, the fans of WSU on this board set up the argument so that any rebuttal, accurate or not is interpreted by them as sour grapes , whining..etc...its as Ive said several times lately, but just because a WSU fan says its so, doesnt make it so..it is truly amazing that one year of basketball success in the past 20 has given them the God complex but you know what...that was predicted on this board numerous time over the past several years as well and it to has come to fruition. And just a reminder, though BU did a great job in the tourney, they finished 6th in the league....this board has been headed in this directon for awhile and the reason people are down on the shocker fans is perfectly illustrated by this and most of the other threads on the board today.

[iSASO]

It is not required for anyone on this board to love Shocker fans. That's not the goal.
WSU has always been a trail-blazer in college athletics, that typically draws the ire of those who aren't capable or courageous enough to do it themselves.

(And before you get all uptight about that statement, please be forewarned that I have several examples already in the barrell, just waiting for the first person to question or discount it. So if you want to see the trump cards I have setup with that statement, please feel free to be sucked into my plan)

[SubGod22]

If we simply copy the success of SIU I won't be happy. No offense to them. But I'd rather continue to raise the bar and not just be happy with making the tournament. What they've done is good. But we as a conference need to strive to improve where we are and work hard to get higher seeds. That's where the Valley is going to get more respect and make more runs and more money. I don't want to be the dog in the first round every year. Sure, there are going to be times where some of us are, but we need to aim high and continue to try and raise the bar. SIU has a shot at that this year with the shots they appear to be getting with some good names. Hopefully this continues over the next few years and other teams start putting themselves in situations to better themselves.

[dogdays]

After numberous re writes I decided not to respoind except to say this...SIU has not and will not settle for just making the tournament..if that is your interpretation than you are incorrect...

[brokeback shocker]

I can't not comment.

Some of you WSU fans DO NEED TO GET OVER YOURSELVES.

To the rest of the MVC fans, please don't blame all Shocker fans for some of our idiotic fans.

WSU is a "trailblazer"? Gimme a friggin' break.

WSU is what it is for a few simple reasons:

1. We have had some atheltic success
2. We've been a D1 school for a long time - since D1 started. Therefore, there are memories of Oscar Robertson and Wes Unseld playing in Wichita.
3. We are in a large city with a large alumni and fan base compared to the rest of the MVC. Being in a large city creates WSU fans who are not alumni, but then still contribute major dollars to athletics (like Charles Koch).

That's it.

Every school in the MVC has some element of those three, but maybe not to the extent of WSU. Bradley is closest, but being a private school, the alumni base isn't as large as a state school like WSU.

So, we have a larger pool of fans, which means there is a greater chance of having idiotic fans.

[dogdays]

Brokeback...a beacon of light in the abyss(not RDR's abyss of course)...thanks for the enlightened and honest post.....you hit the nail on the head...

[DaShox]

Saluki Way and a proposed renovation of SIU Arena are on the drawing board but it might be years before they break ground. We simply don't have the economic resources other schools in the Valley have. Them's the facts.

Perhaps the most ambitious capital project proposed for SIUC in at least three decades, it would unfold in stages over the course of 10 years.

An exact starting date has not been announced. Stage one, which includes renovation of SIU arena and McAndrew Stadium (football), would take about six years, Wendler said.

That's my problem. Six years? WSU funded $25 million Koch Arena in one year. Where is SIU basketball going to be six years from now? SIU should have been raising funds the last five years and you could have a new arena built by next year. Do you plan on 11 consecutive trips to the Big Dance? It is very possible SIU will end up like Tulsa -- nice arena and the coaching well run dry.


SIU is the only mid-major team in NCAA history to earn 4 straight at-large bids.

You will never hear a WSU utter those words. Ever. We have no desire to be seen as or hang our hat on the term mid major.

[ColdShockin']

Lest ye think brokeback is a lone voice ...

I would ask the moderator to retitle this thread "Explaining Wichita State A-hole Web Posters" to better reflect the sum of daShox' arguments.

[DaShox]

Ironically, it was a SIU fan which said: "If WSU gets it going, there will be hell to pay on this board".

Welcome to hell.

[rjl]

While I sincerely respect and honor the hell out of what SIU has done with what they have, I'll echo Subgod's comments and say that I will be severely disappointed if WSU just follows in SIU's footsteps, and that the season we just had was the best we'll ever get.

When I've said that it seems as if CU and SIU have become stagnant over the last 5 years, this is what I mean.

Five years ago, WSU was mediocre at best. CU and SIU were at the top of the Valley, making runs in the NCAA tournament, and getting some national media attention.

Here it is 5 years later. WSU is at the top of the Valley, making runs in hte NCAA tournament, and getting some national media attention.

CU and SIU, had they progressed the same, should be getting #3 or #4 seeds in the tournament, top 20 national rankings, and home-and-homes with the likes of UConn, Arizona, or even UNC and Duke

But instead. CU and SIU are at the top of the Valley, getting into the NCAA tournament, and getting some national media attention.

While WSU has progressed tremendously over what it was 5 years ago, CU and SIU are doing the same thing they've been doing for the last 5.

While that's commendable when you are at the level those teams have been, is the top accomplishment a SIU fan can say--getting in the NCAA tournament for 5 years in a row--really progression if it's been the same thing with the same result for the last 5 years?

Is it progression if you're fighting to get over the same hump now that you were 5 years ago?

You can say that it's been the Valley conference that's been holding you back, and I'd say just look at Gonzaga. Most people in the nation couldn't name another team in their conference. Yet they've somehow managed to stake a great national reputation for themselves.

Now, like I've said in the past, the SIU and CU teams this season could very well be much better teams than they were 5 years ago. I won't dispute that at all.

I guess I'm talking more about the marketing of your teams.

And I'll say this again, as it pretty much sums up my point:

Is it progression if you're fighting to get over the same hump now that you were 5 years ago?

[DaShox]

SIU has taken the next step.

No you haven't. Joey, I like you and absolutely respect SIU's 5 NCAA's. But, taking the next step involves building your arena while the program is strong, pushing your program to the Elite Eight.

When you see 3 first round losses in 5 trips, maybe you have to look in the mirror and say "we're so close but we need to get that little extra edge". That's where your arena and playing the elite comes in. Arkansas is a great addition to your schedule and I'd be happy to see WSU play the Hogs. As far as elite goes though, the Hogs are not the elite. If you took a 1-0 with North Carolina and that game helped SIU to an Elite Eight, would you take it?

I agree with RJL. Fundamentally, we're talking about marketing your program and making it strong for a long time to come.

[dogdays]

First, I apologize to all those who are sick and tired of this ...and for posting most of this stuff a second time...I promise no more after this.

WSU has one ncaa bid in the past 20 years
WSU has one Sweet 16 run in the past 20 years
WSU has one league championship in the past 20 years.
5 years ago they were no where...they have made great strides, and it is good for the league...and for them..

SIU has 8 ncca bids in the past 20 years
SIU has 5 NCAA bids in the past 5 years
SIU has 4 league championships in the past 5 Years and one Tourney Championship.
SIU has one Sweet 16 championship in the past 5 years.

5 years ago SIU was First ...since then they have been first every year except this year , which they were second, yet first in the tourney. ...you want them to to progress... its hard to progress from 1st or second isnt it...
5 years ago they werent on National tv once..last year they were on ESPN or CBS 8 or 9 times I believe..this year they are sheduled to be on at least 4 times in the first 8 games and maybe 5 times and thats not including the rest of the schedule.They received no votes 5 years ago in the polls the past three years they have recieved votes numerous times and this past year 9 times out of 18 weeks and we were ranked as high as 15 two years ago....Their NCAA record shows them beating Tex tech a 7 seed, and Georgia a three seed then losing to UCONN a two seed..A one pt loss to Mizzou who eveyone watching the game including the ad at mizzou thought Paulding charged...a one pt loss to Alabama on a last second shot..who went on to Beat number 1 Stanford...a vicotry over St Marys and then a tough loss to OSU on their home away from home in OK City...Last year s loss to WVU was the worst of the past 5 years , with a group of underclassmen who were not expected to get their to begin with...Those are the facts ...SIU has made major progress, they arent content to get in and get beat...when WSU continues to get bid after bid and gets deep into the tourney several years in a row then you can crow, until then you have had one good year in the past 20.. We all strive to do better ...until you duplicate and build on last year you have nothing to stand on.

[MSNSaluki]

I can't not comment.

Some of you WSU fans DO NEED TO GET OVER YOURSELVES.

To the rest of the MVC fans, please don't blame all Shocker fans for some of our idiotic fans.

WSU is a "trailblazer"? Gimme a friggin' break.

WSU is what it is for a few simple reasons:

1. We have had some atheltic success
2. We've been a D1 school for a long time - since D1 started. Therefore, there are memories of Oscar Robertson and Wes Unseld playing in Wichita.
3. We are in a large city with a large alumni and fan base compared to the rest of the MVC. Being in a large city creates WSU fans who are not alumni, but then still contribute major dollars to athletics (like Charles Koch).

That's it.

Every school in the MVC has some element of those three, but maybe not to the extent of WSU. Bradley is closest, but being a private school, the alumni base isn't as large as a state school like WSU.

So, we have a larger pool of fans, which means there is a greater chance of having idiotic fans.

thank you!:salukis: :shockers: :valley:

[goshoxgo]

until you duplicate and build on last year you have nothing to stand on.


you said it yourself, build on last year. I think the point was SIU and CU have been stagnet. Very impressive but still not much progression. I think the hope with shocker fans is that WSU will continue to progress rather than flatten out. With that said Gonzaga is a perfect example as to how hard it is for a "mid-major" to push deeper and deeper into the tournament despite several sweet sixteen and one elite eight run. Since WSU has progressed every year since Turg's arrival then we can dream if we want.

On a side note, this whole "explaining Wichita State" topic is B.S. I hate all of WSU's oppenents and thier fans. I expect blowjay and the boys to do the same. The fact that all the other schools fans hate WSU is a good thing, I mean how many people hate Indiana St. fans?

[UE-BBALL#1]

you said it yourself, build on last year. I think the point was SIU and CU have been stagnet.


I think the point is that some WSU fans on this thread are saying SIU and CU didn't progress because they didn't move up like WSU has moved up from the middle of the pack to the top over the last 5 years. Of course, this logic ignores the fact that it is easier to move from middle of the pack to the top than from the top to elite. But whatever the reasoning, I think a lot of the argument on here comes from WSU fans STATING how Wichita is progressing and moving further to the top than SIU and CU did. This has yet to happen, so instead of stating this, fans should say they hope that it happens. All of the argument starts with WSU fans saying how they have made this huge leap. So far, Wichita hasn't done anything that SIU hasn't. And quite frankly, I don't see WSU getting a better opportunity at getting to the Elite 8 in the next 5 years, considering this year you got to play an 11 seed in the Sweet 16. Ain't gonna get set up any better than that.

[MSNSaluki]

I think the point is that some WSU fans on this thread are saying SIU and CU didn't progress because they didn't move up like WSU has moved up from the middle of the pack to the top over the last 5 years. Of course, this logic ignores the fact that it is easier to move from middle of the pack to the top than from the top to elite. But whatever the reasoning, I think a lot of the argument on here comes from WSU fans STATING how Wichita is progressing and moving further to the top than SIU and CU did. This has yet to happen, so instead of stating this, fans should say they hope that it happens. All of the argument starts with WSU fans saying how they have made this huge leap. So far, Wichita hasn't done anything that SIU hasn't. And quite frankly, I don't see WSU getting a better opportunity at getting to the Elite 8 in the next 5 years, considering this year you got to play an 11 seed in the Sweet 16. Ain't gonna get set up any better than that.


I've found my favorite Evansville poster! Oh, that's another thread.:cursing:

[rjl]

I think the point is that some WSU fans on this thread are saying SIU and CU didn't progress because they didn't move up like WSU has moved up from the middle of the pack to the top over the last 5 years. Of course, this logic ignores the fact that it is easier to move from middle of the pack to the top than from the top to elite. But whatever the reasoning, I think a lot of the argument on here comes from WSU fans STATING how Wichita is progressing and moving further to the top than SIU and CU did. This has yet to happen, so instead of stating this, fans should say they hope that it happens. All of the argument starts with WSU fans saying how they have made this huge leap. So far, Wichita hasn't done anything that SIU hasn't. And quite frankly, I don't see WSU getting a better opportunity at getting to the Elite 8 in the next 5 years, considering this year you got to play an 11 seed in the Sweet 16. Ain't gonna get set up any better than that.

As it was revealed, though, that 11 seed should have been about a 4 seed or higher.

I agree with what you are saying, though.

It was easier for WSU to progress to where it has in the last 5 years than it would have been for SIU/CU to do the same amount of progression from where they were.

Where this discussion stemmed from was a good portion of SIU and CU fans jumping all over WSU's scheduling of SU in a buyout game, and to a lesser extent the 1-1-neutral series scheduling with LSU.

CU and SIU fans said that it's selling out, being a whore, whatever.

WSU fans are saying that this is what needs to be done to progress to the next level. In other words, if progression = moving up in the polls (polls, national attention, name recognition, etc.), you've GOT to play teams who are up there. No matter where, you have to play them.

CU and SIU fans respond with "you can kiss ever getting a quality home and home with anyone goodbye after whoring yourself out to SU" as well as "thanks for ruining our little scheduling system, whores".

WSU fans respond with "what has that scheduling system done for you?"

Then the progression discussion begins.

So, back to what you were saying.

While the competition may or may not get easier for WSU to get into the elite 8, that argument assumes that WSU can't ever hope to have a better team than we had last year.

And I by no means think that's the case.

[Coachtrey]

[QUOTE=DawgieStyle]there is no excuse, what ever you come up with, for the way most of you act. Arrogant and Entitled. Get over your self Da Shox. Get over Wichita. They are just another Mid west Univ. in the middle of po dunk. Just like the rest of us. Your cows crap in your pastures they same as they do in ours.

True the cows crap in the pastures, but it sure as hell doesnt stink like it does everywhere else.:fear:

[Zardoz50]

WSU has one ncaa bid in the past 20 years

Although CU and SIU posters like to keep spewing this out as if it is a fact, it's incorrect. It's three trips, 87-88, 88-89, and 05-06. At least check the facts and be correct when insulting someone.

[outpost]

I think we may have even had a 4th bid within that time frame, Zardoz. SUe played Georgia in the X-Man's senior year. I think that was 85-86.

[DaShox]

Good catch.

1985 NCAA East Regional vs Georgia
1987 Midwest Regional vs St. Johns
1988 NCAA Midwest Regional vs Depaul
2006 NCAA Eatern Regional vs Tennessee

[Aargh]

I think we're seeing some new rivalries begin emerging this summer. Not geographical, but in the sense that fanbases ABSOLUTELY HATE the other team's fanbase.

It is possible to be a proud WSU fan and still have respect for other teams in the league and fans of those teams and coaches of those teams.

Some of the criticisms some WSU fans are making of other Valley programs are, to put it politely, not well-thought-out. As Exhibit 1 may I present the SIU basketball facility.

SIU has lost 1 Valley game there in the last 5 years. Could be more years, that's all I checked. The only way the condition of SIU's facilities could be a factor in the W/L column is if it was a POSITIVE factor.

Facilities can affect recruiting, but SIU is consistently recruiting on at least an equal basis with the upper levels of Valley teams. If facilities are affecting SIU's recruiting, then SIU is recruiting with a handicap and still getting players as good as any other Valley team is getting. That doesn't say great things about other Valley coaches abilities to recruit - including Turgeon.

Facilities can affect visiting teams. If a visiting team shows up in Carbondale and thinks, "Wow, this place is a dump", congratulations, Salukis, you have just won Phase 1 of "mess with the opposing team's head".

SIU is virtually unbeatable in Carbondale. Facilities aren't negatively affecting recruiting. Why be in any hurry to change that situation?

So, what is the point of continually bringing up SIU's facilities? WSU's shiny new gym certainly isn't beating SIU's gym on the court. The only reasonable explanation for WSU fans bringing SIU's facilities is because it is irritating to SIU fans - and that's pretty much the definition of "rude" in social settings.

We pretty much had the CU/WSU cease-fire sort of working when some WSU fans decided to declare war on SIU.

I'm not a "buddy-buddy, kumbaya-singing" fan, but I try to have respect for people who read and contribute to these discussions. It is a person sitting at the keyboard on the other end of this interweb thingy. It's not just an anonymous source of various pixels that form words on our screens.

[DaShox]

We pretty much had the CU/WSU cease-fire sort of working when some WSU fans decided to declare war on SIU.

Scalera76 asked the question. I answered it. That's where the "war" started. It's my fault for answering the question? If you don't want the answer, don't ask the question.

What was the first response, Aargh? I made a good faith effort to have a basketball discussion about rivalvry's which was promptly met by SIU fan's first response of "go shove it up your *****".

But, hey, it's my fault. Who took it to the gutter? SIU fan. But hey, it's my fault. From my perspective, they don't want to be civil and they don't want to have a legitimate discussion. Read the post. I said "this is not flame". What happened, Aargh? The very first response was a flame by SIU.

[The Mad Hatter]

I just want to say that I have no problem with most SIU fans on this board, and I don't see any particular reason that we are getting into a pissing match right now. Come basketball season, I want WSU to mop the floor with SIU and everyone else, but I don't think either side has to denegrate the accomplishments of the other in the off season. Both schools, as well as others in the Valley, have strong basketball programs historically. Making fun of another program only makes it less significant if you beat them.

[DaShox]

Please understand this is not a criticism or flame.

Those were my exact words at the beginning of this thread. To me, I find it interesting that some of the matchups (Illinios-SIU, Ill. St-Illinois, Illinois-Bradley?, CU-UNL, etc) have not happened in the NCAA Tournament over a course of 40 years or more.

People are too thin skinned. I'm not wearing this one. This is on SIU fan for being too defensive and taking it to the gutter.

[Hooloovoo]

Please understand this is not a criticism or flame.

Those were my exact words at the beginning of this thread. To me, I find it interesting that some of the matchups (Illinios-SIU, Ill. St-Illinois, Illinois-Bradley?, CU-UNL, etc) have not happened in the NCAA Tournament over a course of 40 years or more.

People are too thin skinned. I'm not wearing this one. This is on SIU fan for being too defensive and taking it to the gutter.

There's a good reason why Creighton and UNL have never played at the same time...there has not been a time in recent memory that both teams have been good enough to make the NCAAs at the same time. AND, even if they were, the NCAA makes every attempt possible to avoid rematches until the Sweet 16, so both teams would have to be having top-flight years to hit that rematch in the NCAAs.

[DaShox]

Thank you, Hool.

If there is any information on Bradley-Illinois matchups I'm interested.

[iSASO]

So let's not poo-poo that WSU got that opportunity and took advantage of it. If Creighton or SIU fans would have done that, they would talk about it too. It's one of those moments in time that lives forever in the souls of those who witnessed it.

The KU attitude towards WSU for the previous 40 years only made that day sweeter for WSU fans. For KU folks, it hurt their egos so badly they continued to try to find ways to destroy WSU's program until Turgeon took over (25 years later). Find a KU fan and ask them about the billboards, the t-shirts, the posters, the hats -- everything that rubbed that game in their faces for years.

It's much like Texas fans. All I have to say to my UT-fan neighbor is "89 CWS" and instantly he says "We were robbed". It's as automatic as a reflex test on your knee. That was their title, it belonged to them, they deserved it and WSU and CBS somehow cheated them out of it. It was their title to show up and claim, like you would a piece of luggage at the baggage claim area. How dare stupid little WSU of the stupid little MVC stand toe-to-toe, eye-to-eye, challenging them and daring to think they could take something that Texas wanted. It simply couldn't happen. They are Texas, by god.
And they refuse to play WSU to this very day.

[Ricky Del Rio]

People are who they are because of their life experiences. And in this case, WSU fans are who they are because of their experiences. The same goes for every school in the MVC. With that, let’s begin.

Eye of the Tiger
When asked which of your bitter rivals have you beaten on the big stage and stung them in such a way that it won't be soon forgotten? When have you gone out and taken something from them which caused them to respect and fear you 10 years later?"

The responses were:
SIU won at Creighton (MVC)
CU vs Larry Bird’s Sycamores (MVC)
CU beat SIU in MVC Championship in St. Louis in 2002 and 2003 (MVC)
SIU beats Bradley @ 2006 MVC Tournament (MVC)
CU vs Houston in the mid 70’s.
Indiana State vs. Indiana (regular season)
Creighton ends Nebraska's 7year win streak (regular season)
SIU beats #24 Indiana (regular season)
CU’s Terrell Taylor vs Florida (NCAA Tournament).
Bradley beats KU (2006 NCAA Tournament)
Bradley beats Pitt (2006 NCAA Tournament)
SIU beats #2 Western Illinois University ( football)
I went to a div. 2 school in Illinois, with no defining moments.
We don't really have a rival except to a certain degree, Nebraska

Thanks to those who contributed. Please understand this is not a criticism or flame.

As you can see, most MVC schools have never had to go through a big boy in-state rival on the national stage. For whatever quirky reason, CU hasn'’t ever met/beat Nebraska in the NCAA Tournament or the College World Series. SIU hasn’t ever met/beat Illinois in the NCAA Tournament or CWS. Same with Indiana State-Indiana, UE-Indiana, Mo State-Missouri, Ill St.-Illinois. That is not a criticism, but it has an impact on the personality of your fan base.

What in the heck has happened to some of you WSU fans?

Shocker Fan Experiences
WSU went through rival KU in the Sweet 16. We won and went to the Elite Eight to play LSU.
WSU went through rival Oklahoma State in baseball. One word describes the WSU-OSU rivalry: Hatred.
WSU went through Oklahoma in baseball.

Oklahoma State fans don’t like us. Oklahoma fans don’t like us. They refer to us as arrogant, cocky, intolerable, etc etc. And you know what? We love it!. The reason they don’t like us is that we are a threat and mirror image of them. We don’t take their shi*, we don’t bow down and and we don’t live in fear of them. Deep down they respect that. For OSU & OU, their lifeblood is intimidation tactics and they are appalled that WSU has the cajones to intimidate them. “They’re from the Valley, who the hell do they think they are?” In baseball, we took their tactics & personality and shoved it down their throat. Baking cookies and holding hands does not get you to the top.

Big Boy wants you to act like a mid major and we refuse to do it. That really pisses him off.

Part of the reason there is such a clash between WSU and other MVC fans, is in part because of life experiences. Through the years, many MVC schools just have not had to go down the hardened rivalry road to earn respect. I honestly believe that if others in the MVC had the same rival experiences as WSU, there would be a much different attitude toward growing the product and taking on the LSU & Syracuse’s of the world.

My hair hurts, just thinking about the research required to write the post above.

I am working on ?Que' Tal? and that is plenty for me.

[DaShox]

Que Tal. That's funny!

[Jayball]

Please understand this is not a criticism or flame.

They refer to us as arrogant, cocky, intolerable, etc etc. And you know what? We love it!. The reason they don’t like us is that we are a threat and mirror image of them. We don’t take their shi*, we don’t bow down and and we don’t live in fear of them. Deep down they respect that. For OSU & OU, their lifeblood is intimidation tactics and they are appalled that WSU has the cajones to intimidate them. “They’re from the Valley, who the hell do they think they are?” In baseball, we took their tactics & personality and shoved it down their throat. Baking cookies and holding hands does not get you to the top.

Part of the reason there is such a clash between WSU and other MVC fans, is in part because of life experiences. Through the years, many MVC schools just have not had to go down the hardened rivalry road to earn respect. I honestly believe that if others in the MVC had the same rival experiences as WSU, there would be a much different attitude toward growing the product and taking on the LSU & Syracuse’s of the world.

DaShox just because you say "This isn't a criticism or a flame" doesn't mean your post doesn't sound like one.

You insinuate that SIU, CU and other schools live in fear, bow down, and hold hands while baking cookies. You had to know that would tick people off.

So save the moral indignation that people respond negatively. It is exactly what you wanted.

Not a criticism or a flame but you're a douchebag. No offense though.

See, it doesn't always work.

[SubGod22]

He didn't make it sound like that. Some of you just read it like that. Just as much blame should fall on the readers of this one as the writer....if not more

[MSNSaluki]

He didn't make it sound like that. Some of you just read it like that. Just as much blame should fall on the readers of this one as the writer....if not more


you could be right. perception is different for everyone.
that being said, there aren't many attempts by some wsu posters to make their true intentions clear.
either they are horrible writers or they just want the reaction.

[iSASO]

It just goes to show you that you can't reach everyone. At some point you have to move on to people who want your help.

[Jayball]

Sub- How else should readers take it? DaShox says Part of the reason there is such a clash between WSU and other MVC fans, is in part because of life experiences. Through the years, many MVC schools just have not had to go down the hardened rivalry road to earn respect.

So if other MVC schools haven't been hardened by rivalry respect road, haven't had the "life experiences" to make them tough, then they...."take ****, bow down, live in fear, act likea mid-major, bake cookies, and hold hands." How else do you read it?

I'm willing to listen, but it sure sounds like the same paranoid, egocentric, messiah complex that several Shocker posters have displayed since this board started.

There's plenty to be proud of down there but don't expect hero worship from your conference rivals and don't be surprised if they call bull**** when posters try to deify WSU and its past.

[rjl]

I know this will shock many of you, but I will go on the record as saying the initial post in this thread was a bit of a head-scratcher for me too.

The whole baseball rivalry thing.... I just didn't get. Everyone's got rivals, it doesn't matter.

I'm still going with the "I'm just cocky as hell and take **** from no-one" defense myself.

[DaShox]

Jayball,

That is absolutely not true. Going in, I understood that no matter how much editing was done, somebody was going to perceive it the wrong way. If you read the sentence starting with "in basbeball", you will see the comment has to do with wsu baseball. There were lessons wsu coaches, players and fans had to learn. Painful ones, but lessons nonetheless. Before reaching the pinnacle, many many teams (pro and college) have lost and had to learn some lessons before they finally broke through and won.

The bottom line is, when I say upfront it's not a flame it's not a flame.

[iSASO]

The facts stil remain the facts, no matter how you respond to them.

Oklahoma State Baseball, at the time, was the undisputed King of the Midwest and was a true national power in every sense of the word. They were awesome and they knew it. They always counted on the knowledge that if you truly pushed them, they could always "out-nasty" everyone in the country. They were proud of their nastiness. If you've ever met any of their fans, you know most of them are a natural fit for that mentality.

Gene eventually created a team attitude, a huge team chip-on-the-shoulder that prepared WSU to beat OSU on their terms, on their field, twice in one day - for the right to go to baseball's Elite Eight - the College World Series.

That one day changed the power structure of baseball in the Midwest for years to come. WSU recruiting got even better in Oklahoma, WSU went on to play in three national championship games, winning one, in the next 5 years.

[brokeback shocker]

A couple of other thoughts from atop the mountain:

1. WSU is fortunate to have the advantages I mentioned before. Playing in and winning a national championsihp in a top 5 college sport is a big deal. Also, I hate to, but do agree with Da Shox/ISASO that playing KU and winning in 1981 is something unique. KU is a unique type of rival.

But to some degree, so what on the points above.

2. However, the Illinois schools have such a huge advantage in recruiting. I think I heard Turgeon say that the State of Illinois produces 150 Div I players every year. Kansas gets 5 - 10 at most and most of those are lower D1 players.

[MoValley John]

The facts stil remain the facts, no matter how you respond to them.

Oklahoma State Baseball, at the time, was the undisputed King of the Midwest and was a true national power in every sense of the word.
Baseball is an afterthought in the sports world now, it was even more of an afterthought then.
They were awesome and they knew it.
They were good, not awesome.
They always counted on the knowledge that if you truly pushed them, they could always "out-nasty" everyone in the country.
Baseball was a regional game. They could out nasty everyone in the Big 8, not the country. The Big 8 was pathetic at baseball.
They were proud of their nastiness. If you've ever met any of their fans, you know most of them are a natural fit for that mentality.
I know several of their fans, baseball is always behind wrestling and about even with golf in the pecking order.
Gene eventually created a team attitude, a huge team chip-on-the-shoulder that prepared WSU to beat OSU on their terms, on their field, twice in one day - for the right to go to baseball's Elite Eight - the College World Series.
Whatever he created, it's gone now. Even Gene tried to leave.
That one day changed the power structure of baseball in the Midwest for years to come.
Baseball sucked in the Midwest. It was a Miami, USC, LSU, Fullerton, Az State thing.
WSU recruiting got even better in Oklahoma, WSU went on to play in three national championship games, winning one, in the next 5 years.
None in the last 10 years. Where did the mojo go? Maybe with Gene to Oklahoma?



That is the WSU fallacy.

[MoValley John]

A couple of other thoughts from atop the mountain:

1. WSU is fortunate to have the advantages I mentioned before. Playing in and winning a national championsihp in a top 5 college sport is a big deal. Also, I hate to, but do agree with Da Shox/ISASO that playing KU and winning in 1981 is something unique. KU is a unique type of rival.


There is no top 5 in sports, there is a top 2; baseball and football. The rest don't matter.

[cufan]

Playing in and winning a national championsihp in a top 5 college sport is a big deal.

Are you kidding me? I love college baseball personally, perhaps mostly because I grew up living with and attending the pagentry of the college world series. I would be no less giddy about CU winning it if they ever made it there. But, college baseball is barely relavant on a national level today. It was even more insignificant when WSU won the College World Series.

[MoValley John]

Are you kidding me? I love college baseball personally, perhaps mostly because I grew up living with and attending the pagentry of the college world series. I would be no less giddy about CU winning it if they ever made it there. But, college baseball is barely relavant on a national level today. It was even more insignificant when WSU won the College World Series.

That's great that you love the pageantry, but that is all the CWS is. It's an event. Without looking at a sports almanac, nobody on this board could cite the last 5 CWS champions. Here's a start, this year it was Oregon State. As for that, college football and basketball is all that matters. Period.

That said, I'm all for you supporting Creighton in soccer. Big freaking deal. I just hope if Creighton does win a soccer title, they don't come on this board spewing how great it was for their sports program and how it put Creighton in the national spotlight. It will be good for the sports program, not great, and for the national spotlight, there will be none.

[Jayball]

Jayball,

That is absolutely not true. Going in, I understood that no matter how much editing was done, somebody was going to perceive it the wrong way. If you read the sentence starting with "in basbeball", you will see the comment has to do with wsu baseball. There were lessons wsu coaches, players and fans had to learn. Painful ones, but lessons nonetheless. Before reaching the pinnacle, many many teams (pro and college) have lost and had to learn some lessons before they finally broke through and won.

The bottom line is, when I say upfront it's not a flame it's not a flame.

Fair enough.

[DaShox]

Gracias.

[DaShox]

They were good, not awesome.They could out nasty everyone in the Big 8, not the country. The Big 8 was pathetic at baseball. Baseball sucked in the Midwest. It was a Miami, USC, LSU, Fullerton, Az State thing.

The Polls
1981: OSU #4, WSU #11
1982: WSU #1, OSU #5
1983: OSU # 4, WSU #16
1984: OSU #4
1985: OSU #6, WSU #10
1986: OSU #4
1987: OSU #2, WSU #18
1988: OSU #4, WSU #3 – the turning point.
1989: WSU #1, OSU #15
1990: OSU #2, WSU #19
1991: WSU #2, OSU #12
1992: WSU #5, OSU #8
1993: WSU #2, OSU #6
1994: OSU #9, WSU #19
1995: OSU #11, WSU #13
1996: WSU #8, OSU #11
1997: OSU # 14
1999: OSU #9, WSU #14

OSU & the College World Series
1981 – 2nd
1982 – 5th (WSU beat OSU 13-2 . WSU played Miami for the National Championship)
1983 – 5th
1984 – 3rd
1985 – 5th
1986 – 4th


That’s not awesome?
OSU -- NCAA record 16 consecutive Big 8/Big 12 conference championships (1981-1996).

OSU -- 19 College World Series appearances.

OSU -- NCAA record seven straight College World Series appearances (1981-1987). WSU ended this streak in 1988.

33 NCAA Berths – 19 straight (1981-1999).
Six CWS National Championship game appearances. (WSU has four).
Two Olympic Gold Medalists.
17 Top 10 finishes (Collegiate Baseball)
15 Top 10 finishes (Baseball America)
OSU holds 10 NCAA records -- six by Pete Incaviglia, three team records and one by Robin Ventura.
NCAA record -- Robin Ventura, 57 consecutive games with a hit (1987).
NCAA record-- Pete Incaviglia 48 home runs (1985), RBI (143), 100 career home runs, .915 slugging.

Pukes in the Pros
Over a 9 year span (1981-1990), OSU had 8 players selected in the first round. OSU's lowest first round pick was #27. ( yeah baseball in the midwest really sucked).

Pete Incaviglia -- Baseball America Player Of The Century, 1985 Player of The Year

Robin Ventura – Baseball America Player of The Decade (1980’s), 1988 Golden Spikes Award, 1987 Player of The Year, 1986 Baseball America Freshman of The Year, Olympic gold medalist. 16 year major leaguer hit .301 with 32 home runs and 120 rbi leading the Mets to the World Series.

Jeromy Burnitz – Pittsburg Pirates. 13 seasons in the majors and entered the 2006 MLB season with 299 home runs. Drafted #17 in the first round & was on the 1990 OSU team that went to the CWS.

Jon Adkins – San Diego Padres. 24-8 at OSU, started Game 1 of the 1996 CWS throwing 8.1 IP vs #1 Alabama.


Ok, I feel dirty now. Thanks a lot John.

[MoValley John]

Nice stats, but you are not bringing any new light to the situation. During the time frame you cited, Oklahoma State, along with Oklahoma, were the only teams in the Big 8 that even took baseball seriously. Baseball was, and still is to an extent, a southern and pacific coast game. OU and OSU are sort of southern schools. The Big 8 you cite, was really more like the Big 2, more precisely the Big 1-1/2. So Big 8 championships are nothing. As for the CWS, the same can be said as far fewer teams were trying to compete, few if any from the north. OSU and WSU, reached the peaks of their success when no northern schools took the game seriously and the pond of competitive teams was much smaller. Strangely enough, when more teams began to take baseball seriously, bigger and better facilities were built at campuses such as Notre Dame, Iowa, Nebraska, Michigan and the likes, WSU and Okie State both went backwards. Sure you get an occasional draft pick, you win the Valley (Valley baseball is mediocre), but the last CWS is so far in the past, it is hard for anyone but people from Wichita to remember. The old adage lies true: What have you done for me lately?

And besides, nobody cares about college baseball!

[DaShox]

One last thing. Skip Bertman's LSU Tigers struggled for years in the College World Series, their struggles were so prominent they became a media story each and every year the Tigers made the CWS. Eventually, LSU learned the lessons (unfortunately for WSU) and went on a tear in the 1990's.

To state baseball in the midwest sucked is simply incorrect. LSU did not enter the class of USC & Miami until the 1990's. To state otherwise is not correct.

[MoValley John]

One last thing. Skip Bertman's LSU Tigers struggled for years in the College World Series, their struggles were so prominent they became a media story each and every year the Tigers made the CWS. Eventually, LSU learned the lessons (unfortunately for WSU) and went on a tear in the 1990's.

To state baseball in the midwest sucked is simply incorrect. LSU did not enter the class of USC & Miami until the 1990's. To state otherwise is not correct.


Each and every year? That would make them a perennial elite 8, not too shabby.

[MoValley John]

Words do no justice in demonstrating how the baseball landscape has changed. But one picture captures it pretty well.

37

[cufan]

That's great that you love the pageantry, but that is all the CWS is. It's an event. Without looking at a sports almanac, nobody on this board could cite the last 5 CWS champions. Here's a start, this year it was Oregon State. As for that, college football and basketball is all that matters. Period.

That said, I'm all for you supporting Creighton in soccer. Big freaking deal. I just hope if Creighton does win a soccer title, they don't come on this board spewing how great it was for their sports program and how it put Creighton in the national spotlight. It will be good for the sports program, not great, and for the national spotlight, there will be none.

MVC John. Thus, the use of the term "pagentry." People in Omaha know it is an event. We love a good event here. The Omaha stop on the Nationwide tour (Cox Classic) is considered the top on the tour and one of the top PGA events overall because Omahans like a good event (I realize I risk a long string of how Wichita's stop is better by making this statement). To some extent, CU basketball has become an event. Many of us are diehard fans, but some are there for the event. Fine by me.

I don't think anywhere did I suggest that CU winning a soccer national championship would put Creighton in the national spotlight - except outside Omaha and soccer afficienados around the country. I would probably buy my kids a national championship t-shirt nonetheless.

[DaShox]

"The Association has something that everybody wants -- the Division I Men's Basketball Championship -- and the very act of selling that event ..."
--NCAA News

In the eyes of the NCAA everything is an event. The Rose Bowl, Orange Bowl, NCAA Tournament, College World Series. It's called festival events and pageantry is the name of the game. For example, the orange bowl has a beach bash, kick off party's, thank you party's, 3 on 3 basketball games, etc etc.

When the NCAA signed the $6 billion deal in 2002, it was stated by an NCAA official that the future of the NCAA was going to be built on events. So yes, the CWS is an event.

[MikeKennedyRulz]

but the last CWS is so far in the past, it is hard for anyone but people from Wichita to remember.

This is wrong. There are plenty of people on this very board who love nothing more but to post when the Shox last made the CWS.

[MoValley John]

In the eyes of the NCAA everything is an event. The Rose Bowl, Orange Bowl, NCAA Tournament, College World Series. When the NCAA signed the $6 billion deal in 2002, it was stated by an NCAA official that the future of the NCAA was going to be built on events.

There is a distinct difference.
At the Orange Bowl, Rose Bowl and NCAA Basketball tourney games, the large majority of fans will travel from their home to follow their team. At the College World Series, the fan base is largely made up of people from Omaha and a group of people who are baseball fanatics that travel to the games without regard to who is in the tournament. Reserved seats are sold out. Will be every year and the vast majority of people at the games have no vested interest in winners or losers.

[cufan]

From article in today's Omaha daily paper:

"Creighton coach Dana Altman has a surefire, conversation-stopping response for schools that ask if the Bluejays want to schedule a "buy" game - a road game with no chance of a return home date.

"I usually say, 'How much do you want?'" Altman said. "We draw better than most of the schools that want to buy us, so I figure we might as well play at our place.

"Usually, I usually don't get a response. Or else I hear a click."

[iSASO]

Does CU out-draw Syracuse?

[Fraydog]

Do most BCS schools out-draw Syracuse?

Fixed to emphasize accuracy, as the Carrier Dome sells on average 21,587 seats, second in the country to Kentucky.

Creighton was 20th in average attendance last year - largest in the Valley. With the expanded capacity of the Qwest, that number and ranking will only go up.

http://www.ncaa.org/stats/m_basketball/attendance/2006_basketball_attend.pdf

[iSASO]

And, relating that to the original topic, maybe someday Creighton fans will witness a defining-moment win against a major rival in a high-stakes situation at their glorious facility.

[MSNSaluki]

glad to see this thread brought back from the dead ...:doh:

[Divergence]

glad to see this thread brought back from the dead ...:doh:

And brought back from the dead by no less by than a admin-tomator

[SubGod22]

The thread that will never die :grin:

[outpost]

bump

[LincolnJay]

And, relating that to the original topic, maybe someday Creighton fans will witness a defining-moment win against a major rival in a high-stakes situation at their glorious facility.

:sleeping:

[Ricky Del Rio]

You act like no one else in the MVC plays major teams. SIU IS PLAYING IU AND ARKANSAS and possibly more! How is that not trying to take on some of the best competition in the NCAA? IU is a top 5 program in the history of the NCAA. Better than the LSU's and SU's of the world. I just don't get your point there. Both schools have good teams on the schedule. Both schools schedules are most likley pretty darn even. I haven't seen WSUs whole schedule but I wouls bet if you broke them down they would be very very close.

I do agree that your baseball sucess has given you some great rivalries with BCS schools, no doubt about that. But we are talking about basketball not baseball.

Along about this time next year, it will be hard to find any whimpering Doggie fans wandering around and living in the past.

[Aargh]

Ricky - I really like most of your posts and I hate to do this to you but

Along about this time next year, it will be hard to find any whimpering Doggie fans wandering around and living in the past.

And the annual "great abyss" theme is inaugurated October, 15, 2006.

[Fraydog]

Yeah I bumped it. My mistake...:doh:

- Ryan

[DaShox]

Remember this thread? Remember all the howling? Go back and read the first post in this thread. For the first time in program history, SIU sits in a position to play Illinois for a right to the Sweet 16. The only other intra-state Sweet 16 matchup for the MVC has been WSU-KU.

Last year, I said BU and WSU must lead the pack for the MVC. Everyone howled. Are we paying attention this year?

The hardened rivalry road awaits. If/when SIU beats the Illini, it will be a glorious day. Good luck!

[Ricky Del Rio]

Ricky - I really like most of your posts and I hate to do this to you but



And the annual "great abyss" theme is inaugurated October, 15, 2006.

I must admit I was wrong, wrong, wrong.

I have a new forecast, but I am keeping it to myself.

[Bird]

Last year, I said BU and WSU must lead the pack for the MVC.

So how' that going for ya as WSU sits at home for the post-season? Really leading the MVC. :doh:

[tdshox]

Why can't we just LOVE one another? I think this topic is a stretch and should be placed in the baseball section. . Way to stir up the pot...

[Ictjay]

Remember this thread? Remember all the howling? Go back and read the first post in this thread. For the first time in program history, SIU sits in a position to play Illinois for a right to the Sweet 16. The only other intra-state Sweet 16 matchup for the MVC has been WSU-KU.

Last year, I said BU and WSU must lead the pack for the MVC. Everyone howled. Are we paying attention this year?

The hardened rivalry road awaits. If/when SIU beats the Illini, it will be a glorious day. Good luck!


That was last August. Lead the pack? Don't quite undersatand where this is going.

[DJShocker10]

Why on earth do we bring back this thread? Bring back something useful and fun.......



BABES OF THE MVC!!!!!