Warning: Real basketball topic

[iSASO]

Sorry, Joey, I beat you to it. In 10 seconds, I had something you couldn't come up with.

So here's the question:
If you had to choose the biggest weakness your team must overcome this season, what would it be?

For WSU, I would say consistent play from the 5-spot. It sure is nice to have a big body in there you can count on every night.

[shockerfan13]

I would say that along with the 5-spot...just leadership in general. We lost Paul..yes...but also a couple others that were leaders off the floor. So that to me will be something that we need to find early in the season. I don't think it'll end up being a problem as I think we have leaders/possible leaders on the team. But until they get to playing you just never know.

[siudog]

I would say can we come up with a consistent "O" Will our newbies contribute and if they contribute alot then we are in trouble... Means that our Vets our not coming thru and that can lead to trouble... Our D is solid but our "O" is still the big ????? mark...

:salukis:

[blueness]

Point Guard

[WuDrWu]

Every team Mark has coached has rebounded well. While I think overall size is a concern, my biggest concern is post defense then defense overall. I think we have more scoring threats than a WSU team has put on the court in 20+ years, maybe 30. We will score points, can we stop the other team at least some?

Mark will stress defense from day 1. Will the kids buy and do what wins games is the big question.

Outpost, I thought the thread about rating the posters from your school was interesting. I think the moderators have a short leash today (and last night). Plus I'm glad you mentioned it, since I couldn't find it this morning I thought I was losing my mind.

It would appear that Joey's thread has found the internet graveyard as well.

[outpost]

Every team Mark has coached has rebounded well. While I think overall size is a concern, my biggest concern is post defense then defense overall. I think we have more scoring threats than a WSU team has put on the court in 20+ years, maybe 30. We will score points, can we stop the other team at least some?

Mark will stress defense from day 1. Will the kids buy and do what wins games is the big question.

Outpost, I thought the thread about rating the posters from your school was interesting. I think the moderators have a short leash today (and last night). Plus I'm glad you mentioned it, since I couldn't find it this morning I thought I was losing my mind.

It would appear that Joey's thread has found the internet graveyard as well.

Yeah, I thought so too Wu, especially since I recollect using terms like "constructive criticism" in it.

I just got back from shockernet.net and confirmed from a poster that Our Man Mekel arrived at the arena for practice this afternoon.

I would have to echo ISASO and Shockerfan13 with my concern over the 5 spot. But I don't think that we'll have too many problems with general leadership. One can be a vocal leader, but one can also lead by example. We've got good leadership from both of these areas coming back this year.

I'm going to speculate that as each day passes, this board will begin to gravitate back towards some real basketball discussion.

[C0|db|00ded]

While we certainly have questions on the post my biggest concern is the potential for chemistry problems this year. About a month ago I witnessed a pretty healthy in-game skirmish between Matt Braeuer and Karon Bradley indicating to me that there is a formidable internal struggle for next year's team leader. Now we have this wunderkind from Israel arriving who is supposed to be an NBA-caliber guard and the stage for sparks is set. I watched Gal play when he first visited Wichita and he is definitely confident, cocky, and has this "look" that says move aside or get run over. That is the attitude you expect from a winner but the current Shocker team already has a boat-load of winners.

Chemistry is the single most important aspect of a championship team. There is no question that we have enough talent to repeat as MVC champions and if we get the right seeding, make another deep NCAA tournament run. Without team chemistry though, we could easily look at a 3rd place Valley finish and a trip to the "other" tournament.

Mark has recruited the horses, now let's see how he can train them to perform in the face of recent success and all the ego that comes with it...


T


...:cool:

[SalukiSpike]

I'd say scoring from the PG position.

Consistent play from the post from someone besides Falker.

Better shot selection.

[Tasmanian Devil]

Every team Mark has coached has rebounded well. While I think overall size is a concern, my biggest concern is post defense then defense overall. I think we have more scoring threats than a WSU team has put on the court in 20+ years, maybe 30. We will score points, can we stop the other team at least some?

Mark will stress defense from day 1. Will the kids buy and do what wins games is the big question.

Overall size is a concern but like you said MT has them rebound as a team so well that it shouldn't affect rebounding. I guess I don't have the concern about post defense as much though as they should be much more athletic down low. Miller wasn't exactly a defensive giant in there. Against MVC teams, I think the Shox will be fine inside. Teams that have a ton of height inside may be a cause for concern though (LSU, Syracuse).

[DJShocker10]

With the new kids we have coming in, Ryan Martin, Ryan Bradley, and David King, I am not too worried about the post. But I am, like other people, a bit more worried about defense. As long as we consistently get the defensive boards we will be just fine.

[DUBulldog]

I'm most worried about low-post play, both offensively and defensively.

[Pocket Aces]

The "losing" mentality that has overcome the program the last 5-6 years. The team has some experience, and actually had some success the last half dozen games of last year, breaking a long losing road losing streak in the process. Teams need to learn how to win and the players on the team haven't experienced much of that. They need to change that mentality.

From a physical on the court standpoint, the Aces need to find some depth that can contribute. The last few years have been the starters and little else.

[rjl]

The "losing" mentality that has overcome the program the last 5-6 years.

Man, that can be tough.

I sometimes wonder how WSU overcame its. (Not to turn this into another WSU thread, but just using us as an example)

Just thinking back, I think having a few freshmen coming in and actually starting games for WSU (Jamar Howard and Randy Burns, sometimes Rob Kampman) may have helped.

My theory is that ALL freshmen come in thinking they can win every game. If a team is top heavy with juniors and seniors who are used to losing, however, the Freshmen may never get a chance to put that attitude to the test when it counts. By the time they get to be upperclassmen and start games, they've been beaten down by the losing mentality.

[brokeback shocker]

About a month ago I witnessed a pretty healthy in-game skirmish between Matt Braeuer and Karon Bradley indicating to me that there is a formidable internal struggle for next year's team leader.

Cold,

Please tell me more, big fella.

[underdawg2]

I'd say our success will depend on the amount of thugs that we can get on the floor at one time--we should go ten deep in gang bangers this year so it's a minor worry:lol: :salukis:

[smsandmsuson]

coaching...and needing the 5's to be more consistent...

[Ricky Del Rio]

The Shockers have a ball problem.

Too many good players and not enough balls to go around.

[WuDrWu]

Just saw the guys at the first practice on the news. Gal looks great. These guys are so well spoken, it is a pleasure to be fans of this team.

When Mark was interviewed, he looked like the cat that swallowed the bird.

You can tell that he knows they are loaded.

This is going to be a fun, fun year.

[BearChief]

1. Consistent post-play. In particular, scoring from the 5 spot.

2. Coaching. What else is new at Mo State?

:bears:

[smsandmsuson]

1. Consistent post-play. In particular, scoring from the 5 spot.

2. Coaching. What else is new at Mo State?

:bears:

barrys always saying that we need a double double combined from the 5...anyone else think we need to expect more from them now that they have two years under their belts...wouldnt hurt to get 15-20 points and 12-17 rebounds...or maybe im just expecting to much of this team...

[Aargh]

Miller wasn't the most agile post player. Thomasson is the likely replacemnt for Miller. Thomasson is reportedly quicker, more agile and more athletic. Thomasson is also 3" shorter.

In the NBA tryouts Miller had predictably low scores on "lane agility" tests, but surprisingly was in the top half of all people at the combine for verticals.

There is no reasonable expectation that either Thomasson or Wilson will have Miller's post moves, post shooting touch, or discipline to wait, evaluate the doubles and find an outside feed that leads to an open shot.

Miller understood the game to the point where if he didn't have a shot, he switched to PG mode and found the outlet pass to reset the offense, which often resulted in 2 passes and a score.

WSU is likely to change offensive looks next year and go to PF (Wilson/Martin), PF (Thomasson/Martin), Wing (Cooz), SG (Ogirri/Bradley) and PG (Brauer/Bradley).

Ryan Bradley (6'10") is reported to have made huge progress in strength, speed, quickness and agility. Bradley's playing style is more like a 4 than a 5. Even if Bradley can get to the 10 minutes a game level, WSU is likely to run an offense with no "true" center but a lot of people who can post up in certain situations.

[salukibob]

I would say can we come up with a consistent "O" Will our newbies contribute and if they contribute alot then we are in trouble... Means that our Vets our not coming thru and that can lead to trouble... Our D is solid but our "O" is still the big ????? mark...

:salukis:

I concur.

[SubGod22]

The biggest concern for me is the post play. I'm not overly worried, but we won't have the comfort, at least early, of knowing what we're going to get out of the post. Thomasson brings things that Miller didn't. But it goes the other way too.

As for the skirmish Cold was talking about it's really no big deal. They're both competitors and that happens. You hear reports of incidents like that happening all over college basketball and both players are usually cool with everything before the day is done.

[GoCatsGo]

For UNI, I would say our biggest weakness is the loss of 3 expierenced starters. Another one would be the inexpierenced people coming off the bench. Oh and also our new head coach. I know the system will sort of be the same but we haven't seen how he coaches in games so lets hope he will be on the ball which I'm sure he will.

[Phantom]

Kind of hard to say for us... last year obviously our 2 weak spots were a lack of an inside game, and lack of guard production. We hopefully have addressed both issues this offseason so I guess we'll just have to wait and see how it plays out. ON PAPER however, and from the summer practice reports, both of these areas seem to be greatly improved.

The biggest X-factor with the Redbirds this season will be how quickly the team gels and learns to play together. We have a real nice combination of excellent returning experience and one of the best recruiting classes in school history. Thats definately an interesting mix to have. :lol: Once these guys learn to play as a team (and so far team chemistry appears to be outstanding), then the Redbirds could be dangerous and be right in the fight for 5th-6th and getting out of Thursday.

[The Big Guy]

Other than consistent shooting and rebounding I see few weakness for Drake.:bulldogs:

[DUBulldog]

Other than consistent shooting and rebounding I see few weakness for Drake.:bulldogs:

Drake outrebounded their opponents by more than 4 per game last season....rebounding is one area that is not a concern.

[WSUfan]

Drake outrebounded their opponents by more than 4 per game last season....rebounding is one area that is not a concern.
My impression is that Drake's offense does not yield good shot opportunities. Shooting a contested three as the shot clock winds down will hurt one's shooting percentage.

[MSNSaluki]

I concur.

Agreed!

[Maggie]

Miller wasn't the most agile post player. Thomasson is the likely replacemnt for Miller. Thomasson is reportedly quicker, more agile and more athletic. Thomasson is also 3" shorter.

In the NBA tryouts Miller had predictably low scores on "lane agility" tests, but surprisingly was in the top half of all people at the combine for verticals.

There is no reasonable expectation that either Thomasson or Wilson will have Miller's post moves, post shooting touch, or discipline to wait, evaluate the doubles and find an outside feed that leads to an open shot.

Miller understood the game to the point where if he didn't have a shot, he switched to PG mode and found the outlet pass to reset the offense, which often resulted in 2 passes and a score.

WSU is likely to change offensive looks next year and go to PF (Wilson/Martin), PF (Thomasson/Martin), Wing (Cooz), SG (Ogirri/Bradley) and PG (Brauer/Bradley).

Ryan Bradley (6'10") is reported to have made huge progress in strength, speed, quickness and agility. Bradley's playing style is more like a 4 than a 5. Even if Bradley can get to the 10 minutes a game level, WSU is likely to run an offense with no "true" center but a lot of people who can post up in certain situations.

I pretty much agree. I do think that WSU will miss Miller more than some people, in Wichita, think. The half court offense was run through Miller last year and he had the offensive game to demand a double team. As others pointed out, this allowed Miller to kick the ball and with a couple passes you get an open shot. I don't think there is anyone on WSU's roster that can fill Miller's shoes right now. The positive thing is I always thought Miller was soft. Great offensive moves but a soft on D and on the glass. Martin impressed me last year – good work house inside. Thomasson is purported to be more athletic so hopefully that translates into better interior rebounding and defense in the half court. That being said, I think WSU will have to run more this year – take advantage of its depth. With regard to the freshman, it is hard to say who might contribute without knowing who is going to redshirt. The smart money is on Butler (who I really wanted to see play) but who knows. Durley has a wide body and could be a serviceable back up inside. In short, I think the greatest weakness will be adjusting to what will most likely be a different style of play.

[SubGod22]

WSU pushing the ball isn't really a different style of play. That's the way Turgeon prefers to play. And the Shox do more of it in the non-con. It seems most Valley schools want to slow it down more against us and send a couple of defenders back on the shot to keep us from running too much. Hopefully we'll still be able to push the ball more but it's not really that much of an adjustment for those who are returning. Turgeon has always talked about pushing the ball.

[DUBulldog]

My impression is that Drake's offense does not yield good shot opportunities. Shooting a contested three as the shot clock winds down will hurt one's shooting percentage.

Davis's system seems to call for either a very quick shot, or running the shot clock all the way down, with little in between. The "flex" offense he runs is dependent on guys being able to create their own shot.....unfortunately, Drake had few players who could do that.

[Maggie]

WSU pushing the ball isn't really a different style of play. That's the way Turgeon prefers to play. And the Shox do more of it in the non-con. It seems most Valley schools want to slow it down more against us and send a couple of defenders back on the shot to keep us from running too much. Hopefully we'll still be able to push the ball more but it's not really that much of an adjustment for those who are returning. Turgeon has always talked about pushing the ball.

I'll have to take your word for it because I didn't get to see a lot of games as I live on the East Coast. But in the games I saw, they didn't push the ball that much and the offense centered around Miller in the half court. WSU will not have that luxury this year so I think they will have to find ways to get easy baskets in transition. So the style of play will be different in that they won't be able to rely on Miller for that interior offensive presence. This will be an adjustment for the team. Hopefully, WSU will be able to pressure the ball on the perimeter on defense (they applied ok pressure last year but it seemed to me they were really looking to simply keep their man in front and avoid mistakes, i.e. they didn't force many turnovers). I am also hoping that those players filling in at the 5 will do a better job on the defensive glass which would allow players like PJ, etc. to break out rather than crashing the boards all the time.

[outpost]

Big Paul wasn't the fleetest afoot. He wasn't slow, but his speed was probably not much better than average for a player his size. He developed a quick first step on the offensive end. The transition game was not completely suitable for him, though.

I think a combo of Wilson and Thomasson, with Ryan Martin or PJ at small forward, could actually benefit the Shockers in transition (Not even mentioning our 3 freshmen frontliners, because I haven't seen them play yet). And I wouldn't be surprised to see some 4-guard sets, particularly if we're hot from outside on a given night.

We should generally be a faster team this year. Ryan Bradley will probably be our slowest player up and down the court this year, but at the same time he has the potential to be our most improved player.

Not wanting to over-sell him, but in some limited practice film I watched this weekend, RB looked to be much more agile than last year.

[jt45]

You take Paul out of the lineup against SIU last year and we easily win both of those games. He is gonna be TOUGH to replace, but you have other hosrses in tow for this season. I can't wait for college bball to start up. Thank god for football, it should make these reamaining months fly by!

[Majik45]

Biggest concern for Bradley is finding someone who can score consistently. We will probably have trouble putting the ball in the hole. Second biggest concern is post play as we basically have 1 guy back inside and he didn't play a ton last year.

[outpost]

You take Paul out of the lineup against SIU last year and we easily win both of those games. He is gonna be TOUGH to replace, but you have other hosrses in tow for this season. I can't wait for college bball to start up. Thank god for football, it should make these reamaining months fly by!

That's obviously due to SIU's style of play.....I won't elaborate. :naughty:

[The Big Guy]

Drake outrebounded their opponents by more than 4 per game last season....rebounding is one area that is not a concern.


My post was more of a joke than anything. I really see few weakness other consistent outside shooting.:bulldogs: