Turgeon the whiner

[LincolnJay]

Geez, did he actually say this stuff?!?!:ermm:


August 24, 2006

Shocker road trips cause buzz

BY STEVEN PIVOVAR


»
CU Men's Basketball

»
MVC Men's Basketball

Some of Creighton's Missouri Valley Conference brethren are discovering what the Bluejays and Dana Altman learned long ago.

Success one season can bring scheduling headaches the next.

Wichita State, which made the NCAA Sweet 16 last season, found itself on Aug. 1 needing to schedule four games. The Shockers cut that number in half by agreeing to a one-game deal to play at Syracuse this season and a three-game series with LSU, with two games in Louisiana.

"People don't understand how difficult scheduling has become," Valley Commissioner Doug Elgin said. "Dana has faced these difficulties for years. When you win as Creighton has, you develop a nasty reputation that scares people off.

"Bradley and Missouri State and Wichita State are finding that out this season."

Almost every Valley team still has a nonconference game or two to schedule. Creighton is still looking for an opponent for Dec. 2. Altman said the Jays would consider not playing if they can't find an opponent willing to play a home-and-home series.

"We will not play a 'buy' game," Altman said.

For years, Altman has championed what has become the league's unofficial party line: avoid scheduling two-for-one series with just one home game.

"I've never seen any directive from the league regarding those things," Illinois State coach Porter Moser said. "But we've had a lot of discussions about not playing guaranteed games or two-for-ones. A lot of it is perception. People can perceive that you're not a strong team or league if you're willing to accept those games."

That's one reason Wichita State raised eyebrows around the league when it announced its games against Syracuse and Louisiana State. The Shockers will play at LSU on Nov. 25, with the second game of the series set for the 2007-08 season in Wichita. The third game will be in 2008-09 at Shreveport, La.

A week after facing LSU, Wichita State travels to Syracuse for a Dec. 2 game. It's a one-game deal, with no return date set.

"I came off the road at the start of August and I had four games to schedule," Wichita State coach Mark Turgeon said. "My schedule was not where it needed to be in order to put us in position for an at-large berth if we didn't win the league (tournament) in St. Louis.

"I can't worry about what the other coaches or anyone else might think."

Turgeon said Wichita State is at a disadvantage in scheduling because the Shockers have to start anew almost every season.

"I can't get Kansas and Kansas State to play us," Turgeon said. "I don't have Nebraska or any of the Jesuit schools built into my schedule. I don't have Iowa and Iowa State having to play me each year.

"The guys with the teams built into their schedule are the ones talking about how we shouldn't do this or that. If I could play Kansas and Kansas State each year, I wouldn't be playing Syracuse for a buy."

Altman declined to comment when asked if Wichita State's recent schedule additions are good for the league. "Who am I to tell someone how to run their program?" he said.

Moser also had a diplomatic response.

"Everybody knows what kind of team Mark has coming back," Moser said. "Everybody knows the success he had last season.

"I'm not a big fan of two-for-ones, but if all of a sudden Illinois comes to me and wants to schedule one, I might have to swallow my words."

Elgin said the Valley's success last season has made scheduling even more difficult. The league placed four teams in the NCAA tournament for the first time and had two others in the National Invitation Tournament.

"The reality is that we are a top-six league," Moser said, "but people are not treating us like one in scheduling."

Elgin said the Valley in the future might look into scheduling agreements with leagues such as the Colonial, the Western Athletic and the Mid-American. Their teams are facing similar problems lining up home-and-home series.

Another solution, Elgin said, might be to ask the NCAA to require a certain number of true road games or a maximum number of home games.

Wichita State already had a game scheduled at Final Four qualifier George Mason as part of its obligation to return last season's Bracket Buster home contest. Adding LSU means Wichita State is the nation's only school that will play at least two returning Final Four teams.

Thanks, but no thanks

Creighton coach Dana Altman has a surefire, conversation-stopping response for schools that ask if the Bluejays want to schedule a "buy" game - a road game with no chance of a return home date.

"I usually say, 'How much do you want?'" Altman said. "We draw better than most of the schools that want to buy us, so I figure we might as well play at our place.

"Usually, I usually don't get a response. Or else I hear a click."

[rjl]

HAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAAA



You have ALTMAN as your coach, and you're calling Turgeon a whiner?

Did you even watch your NIT debacle last year?

[Jayman]

HAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAAA



You have ALTMAN as your coach, and you're calling Turgeon a whiner?

Did you even watch your NIT debacle last year?


That was not whining. It was rage. Little girls whine. Killers rage.

[WSUbballer]

I think someone is wayyy too concerned with what WSU is doing...

[WSUbballer]

That was not whining. It was rage. Little girls whine. Killers rage.
Killers can only make the NIT?

[rjl]

That was not whining. It was rage. Little girls whine. Killers rage.

No, sorry.

Not only did Altman throw a little crybaby fit, he made it on all the major sports networks. It was played over and over and over and over again.

What an embarassment for the Valley.

http://derek.majorgeek.net/albums/Ryans/altman.jpg

[shockball]

Nice article. Where did you get it?

[blueblood]

Omaha World Herald


i'm so cool i am in all your posts

[DoubleJayAlum]

"I came off the road at the start of August and I had four games to schedule," Wichita State coach Mark Turgeon said. "My schedule was not where it needed to be in order to put us in position for an at-large berth if we didn't win the league (tournament) in St. Louis.

"I can't worry about what the other coaches or anyone else might think."

Turgeon said Wichita State is at a disadvantage in scheduling because the Shockers have to start anew almost every season.

"I can't get Kansas and Kansas State to play us," Turgeon said. "I don't have Nebraska or any of the Jesuit schools built into my schedule. I don't have Iowa and Iowa State having to play me each year.

"The guys with the teams built into their schedule are the ones talking about how we shouldn't do this or that. If I could play Kansas and Kansas State each year, I wouldn't be playing Syracuse for a buy."

:baby: :crybaby: :baby: :crybaby: :baby: :crybaby: :baby: :crybaby:

Turgeon said Wichita State is at a disadvantage in scheduling because the Shockers choose to start anew almost every season.
Fixed.


Hey Turgeon, listen up: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity:

[Mc Bulldog]

The Peacock In Heat .. I wish they would have asked him about the pic.s Cold put on the board of him with Casey Crawford. LOL!

I can understand where coach Peacock is coming from, though he could have chosen his words differently. He sounds like he has issues that need tissues .. as usual .. again. I bet he stomped his little claws all over the office when he saw that article.

[rjl]

What's funny here is you know you don't have a decent response to the fact that Altman threw a fit on national TV.

Nothing.

Nada.

Zilch.

Turg tells it the way it is with WSU's scheduling (if ANYONE would know it would be him, don't you think?) and you doofuses call him a crybaby.

Meanwhile Altman's screaming and yelling and throwing a temper tantrum on national TV.

You aint got shlt.

[Dawg_tired]

What's funny here is you know you don't have a decent response to the fact that Altman threw a fit on national TV.

Nothing.

Nada.

Zilch.

Turg tells it the way it is with WSU's scheduling (if ANYONE would know it would be him, don't you think?) and you doofuses call him a crybaby.

Meanwhile Altman's screaming and yelling and throwing a temper tantrum on national TV.

You aint got shlt.

And you do???? For brains maybe.

[WSUbballer]

The Peacock In Heat .. I wish they would have asked him about the pic.s Cold put on the board of him with Casey Crawford. LOL!

I can understand where coach Peacock is coming from, though he could have chosen his words differently. He sounds like he has issues that need tissues .. as usual .. again. I bet he stomped his little claws all over the office when he saw that article.
Bullpups gonna make it past Thursday this year?

[outpost]

Turgeon the winner

Fixed.

If it would've been titled properly to begin with, we could've avoided all of this unpleasantness.......

[Jayball]

Anyone think Turgeon is toooo honest with the media sometimes?

Whatever truth to some of his comments, the way he said them sounds kinda pathetic. His frustration really comes through.

Wasn't there an article last year where he talked about thinking he couldn't be a coach? And last year he even seemed much more confident than previous seasons. (not having to coach Fridge and Jamar probably helped) He's definitley progressed from the excitable peacock when he started but sometimes his feathers still show through.

Turg is not a stupid guy and neither is Schauss. I hope they can make this philosophy work. But Turgeon sounds ready to break into tears.

[MSNSaluki]

At the end of the day, every program in the Valley has to do what's best for IT.:valley:
If Wichita State wants to schedule "buy" games, good for it.:shockers:
If Creighton doesn't want to schedule "buy" games, good for it.:jays:

[WuDrWu]

Geez, did he actually say this stuff?!?!:ermm:


August 24, 2006

Shocker road trips cause buzz

BY STEVEN PIVOVAR


»
CU Men's Basketball

»
MVC Men's Basketball

Some of Creighton's Missouri Valley Conference brethren are discovering what the Bluejays and Dana Altman learned long ago.

Success one season can bring scheduling headaches the next.

Wichita State, which made the NCAA Sweet 16 last season, found itself on Aug. 1 needing to schedule four games. The Shockers cut that number in half by agreeing to a one-game deal to play at Syracuse this season and a three-game series with LSU, with two games in Louisiana.

"People don't understand how difficult scheduling has become," Valley Commissioner Doug Elgin said. "Dana has faced these difficulties for years. When you win as Creighton has, you develop a nasty reputation that scares people off.

"Bradley and Missouri State and Wichita State are finding that out this season."

Almost every Valley team still has a nonconference game or two to schedule. Creighton is still looking for an opponent for Dec. 2. Altman said the Jays would consider not playing if they can't find an opponent willing to play a home-and-home series.

"We will not play a 'tough road game against quality competition that we might lose," Altman said.
For years, Altman has championed what has become the league's unofficial party line: avoid scheduling two-for-one series with just one home game.

"I've never seen any directive from the league regarding those things," Illinois State coach Porter Moser said. "But we've had a lot of discussions about not playing guaranteed games or two-for-ones. A lot of it is perception. People can perceive that you're not a strong team or league if you're willing to accept those games."

That's one reason Wichita State raised eyebrows around the league when it announced its games against Syracuse and Louisiana State. The Shockers will play at LSU on Nov. 25, with the second game of the series set for the 2007-08 season in Wichita. The third game will be in 2008-09 at Shreveport, La.

A week after facing LSU, Wichita State travels to Syracuse for a Dec. 2 game. It's a one-game deal, with no return date set.

"I came off the road at the start of August and I had four games to schedule," Wichita State coach Mark Turgeon said. "My schedule was not where it needed to be in order to put us in position for an at-large berth if we didn't win the league (tournament) in St. Louis.

"I can't worry about what the other coaches or anyone else might think."

Turgeon said Wichita State is at a disadvantage in scheduling because the Shockers have to start anew almost every season.

"I can't get Kansas and Kansas State to play us," Turgeon said. "I don't have Nebraska or any of the Jesuit schools built into my schedule. I don't have Iowa and Iowa State having to play me each year.

"The guys with the teams built into their schedule are the ones talking about how we shouldn't do this or that. If I could play Kansas and Kansas State each year, I wouldn't be playing Syracuse for a buy."

Altman declined to comment when asked if Wichita State's recent schedule additions are good for the league. "Who am I to tell someone how to run their program?" he said.

Moser also had a diplomatic response.

"Everybody knows what kind of team Mark has coming back," Moser said. "Everybody knows the success he had last season.

"I'm not a big fan of two-for-ones, but if all of a sudden Illinois comes to me and wants to schedule one, I might have to swallow my words."

Elgin said the Valley's success last season has made scheduling even more difficult. The league placed four teams in the NCAA tournament for the first time and had two others in the National Invitation Tournament.

"The reality is that we are a top-six league," Moser said, "but people are not treating us like one in scheduling."

Elgin said the Valley in the future might look into scheduling agreements with leagues such as the Colonial, the Western Athletic and the Mid-American. Their teams are facing similar problems lining up home-and-home series.

Another solution, Elgin said, might be to ask the NCAA to require a certain number of true road games or a maximum number of home games.

Wichita State already had a game scheduled at Final Four qualifier George Mason as part of its obligation to return last season's Bracket Buster home contest. Adding LSU means Wichita State is the nation's only school that will play at least two returning Final Four teams.

Thanks, but no thanks

Creighton coach Dana Altman has a surefire, conversation-stopping response for schools that ask if the Bluejays want to schedule a "buy" game - a road game with no chance of a return home date.

"I usually say, 'How much do you want?'" Altman said. "We draw better than most of the schools that want to buy us, so I figure we might as well play at our place.

"Usually, I usually don't get a response. Or else I hear a click."


Fixed.

[WSUbballer]

At the end of the day, every program in the Valley has to do what's best for IT.:valley:
If Wichita State wants to schedule "buy" games, good for it.:shockers:
If Creighton doesn't want to schedule "buy" games, good for it.:jays:
Agreed.

[TrueBlueJay]

Fixed.

Stupid.

[shockball]

I went to the pre tourney banquet in St. Louis. Mark was named coach of the year. Dana stared off into space while the other coaches were applauding. Dana clapped twice when everyone else was almost finished.

The banquet is very nice. Hall of Fame inductions, funny speeches. If you're going to STL spend another night and go to the banquet.

[RoyalShock]

To me, Turgeon's frustration in this article sounds less like it is coming from the scheduling problem, and more because he's appearently been getting a lot of crap about it.

It's funny how people say they get tired of coach-speak, but then criticize coaches who tell it like it is.

[JVShocker]

[At the end of the day, every program in the Valley has to do what's best for IT.
If Wichita State wants to schedule "buy" games, good for it.
If Creighton doesn't want to schedule "buy" games, good for it.]

(gasp!)

Joey...this sort of common sense talk just doesn't belong here, take it over to the non-trash talk forum. :clap: :banana: :valley:

5PM just can't get here soon enough for a Friday.:naughty:

[outpost]

[At the end of the day, every program in the Valley has to do what's best for IT.
If Wichita State wants to schedule "buy" games, good for it.
If Creighton doesn't want to schedule "buy" games, good for it.]

(gasp!)

Joey...this sort of common sense talk just doesn't belong here, take it over to the non-trash talk forum. :clap: :banana: :valley:

5PM just can't get here soon enough for a Friday.:naughty:

whatchoosaid.......

[BornShocker]

[At the end of the day, every program in the Valley has to do what's best for IT.
If Wichita State wants to schedule "buy" games, good for it.
If Creighton doesn't want to schedule "buy" games, good for it.]

(gasp!)

Joey...this sort of common sense talk just doesn't belong here, take it over to the non-trash talk forum. :clap: :banana: :valley:

5PM just can't get here soon enough for a Friday.:naughty:

Hey brother it's 5 o'clock somewhere. Slide that time card and go get a cold one. :banana: :clap: :clap: :banana: :clap: :clap: :banana: :clap: :clap: :banana:

[iSASO]

""I usually say, 'How much do you want?'" Altman said. "We draw better than most of the schools that want to buy us, so I figure we might as well play at our place."

Creighton out-draws Syracuse?

[martymoose]

No, sorry.

Not only did Altman throw a little crybaby fit, he made it on all the major sports networks. It was played over and over and over and over again.

What an embarassment for the Valley.

http://derek.majorgeek.net/albums/Ryans/altman.jpg


I went to the pre tourney banquet in St. Louis. Mark was named coach of the year. Dana stared off into space while the other coaches were applauding. Dana clapped twice when everyone else was almost finished.

The banquet is very nice. Hall of Fame inductions, funny speeches. If you're going to STL spend another night and go to the banquet.

Sounds like Altman might be the bigger cry baby.... :no:

[DawgieStyle]

i am of the opinion that all coaches are cry babies....not just altman or turgeon.

[SiuCubFan8]

""I usually say, 'How much do you want?'" Altman said. "We draw better than most of the schools that want to buy us, so I figure we might as well play at our place."

Creighton out-draws Syracuse?

Most, key word in that sentence was MOST! I love how some people have selective reading skills!:grin: :valley: :salukis: :jays:

[rjl]

Most, key word in that sentence was MOST! I love how some people have selective reading skills!:grin: :valley: :salukis: :jays:

Oh.

So no SIU or CU fan has been attempting to disparage WSU's buyout game at Syracuse on Valleytalk for the last two weeks or so, and the original posting of that quote wasn't just a continuation of the attempt?

Man. Maybe we DO have reading problems.

[MSNSaluki]

[At the end of the day, every program in the Valley has to do what's best for IT.
If Wichita State wants to schedule "buy" games, good for it.
If Creighton doesn't want to schedule "buy" games, good for it.]

(gasp!)

Joey...this sort of common sense talk just doesn't belong here, take it over to the non-trash talk forum. :clap: :banana: :valley:

sorry.:banghead: :banghead:

[cuhoops]

ehhh, nevermind.

[TrueBlueJay]

""I usually say, 'How much do you want?'" Altman said. "We draw better than most of the schools that want to buy us, so I figure we might as well play at our place."

Creighton out-draws Syracuse?

You need to go re-read the quote. Maybe you should take a comprehension class.

[Jayman]

To me, Turgeon's frustration in this article sounds less like it is coming from the scheduling problem, and more because he's appearently been getting a lot of crap about it.

It's funny how people say they get tired of coach-speak, but then criticize coaches who tell it like it is.

Just because you tell it like it is does not make you immune from criticism.

I agree with Joey in that WSU scheduling was in their best interest this year and each team is naturally going to schedule to benefit themselves. The only problem is that it makes it harder for the rest of the valley schools, reduces or at least does not heighten the perception of the quality of teams in the rest of the Valley, and is a short-term solution to a long-term problem. It is good scheduling for WSU this year given their alternatives. It is bad scheduling for WSU for the long-term and the rest of the Valley period.

[outpost]

After 3 consecutive CU posters have chimed in, I feel compelled to bring the streak to an abrupt end.

No need to respond to 'hoops.......obviously this was a change of mind and apparently not worthy of trash talk consideration.

TBJ - most of the schools that out-draw CU are also perennially higher rated than CU. So I think you and Dana are sidestepping the issue of scheduling up. Bringing an LSU, for example, to Qwest will never happen under his current scheduling philosophy. So trash your "comeback" on ISASO.

Jayman - Your statement "It is bad scheduling for WSU for the long-term and the rest of the Valley period" contains nothing factual. If you insist on calling it factual, please tell me which stocks are going to outperfrom the S&P 500 over the next 12 months. I think I'm going to have some cash to invest soon. I want to know specific stocks, so that I can track them and prove you wrong.

Jayman, you're entitled to your narrow-minded opinion.

[iSASO]

So Altman bases his scheduling philosophy on attendance? He refuses to negotiate games with the most popular teams in college basketball?

That's an odd criteria. I guess if you don't have much confidence in yourself and your program you need some kind of excuse to not play games.

[TrueBlueJay]

Why do some of you Valley fans insist on seeing yourself as a 2nd class citizen?

[Aargh]

Or maybe WSU just upped the ante and made it more difficult for BCS teams to buy games. WSU is getting $80,000, hotel paid and round-trip jet charter paid.

BEast fans are probably complaining that SU paid too much and made it more difficult for the BEast to buy games.

[Jayman]

Jayman - Your statement "It is bad scheduling for WSU for the long-term and the rest of the Valley period" contains nothing factual. If you insist on calling it factual, please tell me which stocks are going to outperfrom the S&P 500 over the next 12 months. I think I'm going to have some cash to invest soon. I want to know specific stocks, so that I can track them and prove you wrong.

Jayman, you're entitled to your narrow-minded opinion.


Do you think WSU and teams in the MVC will have an easier or more difficult time schedule BCS schools 1:1 if we schedule them 2:1, especially when it is our better teams doing it? I don't think that either one of us can say our opinions are factual. My opinion just has some logic to back it up.

I totally understand Shocker fans defending their program and coach. I would so the same if the circumstances were reversed. It also makes sense for WSU this season.

[SubGod22]

I think we will continue to have the same scheduling problems that have plagued this league for several years. I don't think what WSU has done this year will have any effect at all on how we and the Valley will schedule in the future. Unless it convinces a few other programs to step up the level of competition they play...

[iSASO]

Altman's not as confident this season in his squad as Turgeon is about his team? Why does it make sense for WSU but not Creighton?

A great quote -
"Don't measure yourself by what you have accomplished, but by what you should accomplish with your ability."
-John Wooden

[WuDrWu]

Do you think WSU and teams in the MVC will have an easier or more difficult time schedule BCS schools 1:1 if we schedule them 2:1, especially when it is our better teams doing it? I don't think that either one of us can say our opinions are factual. My opinion just has some logic to back it up.

I totally understand Shocker fans defending their program and coach. I would so the same if the circumstances were reversed. It also makes sense for WSU this season.

There is simply no basis for this thought process. Not now, not a month ago when this started, never. Maryland isn't any more likely or unlikely to schedule CU home and home based upon who WSU plays where and how often.


Why CU fans in are getting their Tbacks in a wad over this makes no sense. As a fan of a Valley team, I love to see fellow Valley members take on the best. Win or lose it gives us a chance to measure ourselves against the best.


This seems like the green eyed monster at it's worst.

[LincolnJay]

Anyone ever think the reason Peacock had FOUR games left to schedule at the start of August is cause he really didn't expect to still be at WSU for this coming season?

Just a thought.

[outpost]

............cause he really didn't expect to still be at WSU for this coming season?

LJ, I have < one word response to that query.

:no:

[SubGod22]

Only you LJ....

[iSASO]

LJay, do you think Altman ever expects to have a team good enough to get to the Sweet 16?

[Jayman]

There is simply no basis for this thought process. Not now, not a month ago when this started, never. Maryland isn't any more likely or unlikely to schedule CU home and home based upon who WSU plays where and how often.


Why CU fans in are getting their Tbacks in a wad over this makes no sense. As a fan of a Valley team, I love to see fellow Valley members take on the best. Win or lose it gives us a chance to measure ourselves against the best.


This seems like the green eyed monster at it's worst.

The only basis is that schools that have been giving 2:1 are now giving 3:1 or even 4:1. The evidence is in mid majors scheduling more uneven games in terms of home and away games than even WSU is now. You get money (I don't think WSU is in it for the money) but you give up home games and perceived prestige. The more the big schools think they can play all their games at home, the more they will. If you want more evidence, check out football. Youngstown State is getting 1.7 million to go to Ohio State and the major programs are even paying other BCS schools to travel for one game only. It is worse in football than basketball.

You might have credibility with the jealousy suggestion if Creighton could not get 1 and dones or 2:1s, but Altman has been pretty clear that Creighton has been offered these deals by just about any top program they wanted. Altman is just unwilling to take them. The reason CU fans are probably so against it is that Dana has been drilling the downside to this approach into our heads for years.

Again, I think Turgeon's motives are correct in that he wants to play good teams and get into a position for at large consideration if WSU does not win the tournament. I think that is smart. I even think that he has doen a good job in the specifics of the LSU deal (as I understand them from posters on this board) and that his one and done is with Syracuse and not some team like Seton Hall or Georgia Tech. However, the more you start taking these deals, the more you are expected to do so in the future. The proof is the other mid major teams that are now going 3:1 or even 4:1 with the same teams that were 1:1 or 2:1 most recently.

[DJShocker10]

Anyone ever think the reason Peacock had FOUR games left to schedule at the start of August is cause he really didn't expect to still be at WSU for this coming season?

Just a thought.

You know, that was almost funny. Don't you remember this?

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=2406346

:shockers:

[SubGod22]

But how many of those other "mid majors" are still top notch teams? I could see your point applying to the Shox if we fall off some or something. But if we and the Valley continue to improve and show we belong in the picture, I don't think it will have much of an effect. There will always be certain teams that won't under any circumstances go one and one with a Valley school. This won't effect them.

[Jayman]

But how many of those other "mid majors" are still top notch teams? I could see your point applying to the Shox if we fall off some or something. But if we and the Valley continue to improve and show we belong in the picture, I don't think it will have much of an effect. There will always be certain teams that won't under any circumstances go one and one with a Valley school. This won't effect them.

Teams that have made the NCAAs are giving up 3:1s now.

The only problem with what you suggest is that there are not teamS you can point to where this is true nor a conference where this is true. Could it happen with the Shox and the Valley? Sure. However, all the scheduling trends that have developed in the last decade or so go against this happening. The push is toward a bigger division between the have and have nots.

[WuDrWu]

Anyone ever think the reason Peacock had FOUR games left to schedule at the start of August is cause he really didn't expect to still be at WSU for this coming season?

Just a thought.

LJ,

You get more boring every day. Your attempt at a jab is even more pitiful than usual, and that's saying something.


From now on, save your thoughts. You can't afford to be throwing them around that carelessly.

[WuDrWu]

Teams that have made the NCAAs are giving up 3:1s now.

The only problem with what you suggest is that there are not teamS you can point to where this is true nor a conference where this is true. Could it happen with the Shox and the Valley? Sure. However, all the scheduling trends that have developed in the last decade or so go against this happening. The push is toward a bigger division between the have and have nots.

Please name 2 NCAA "teams" that have currently signed a 3-1 deal.

[SubGod22]

And you can't count some 16 seed that gets in because of a weak conference

[WuDrWu]

The only basis is that schools that have been giving 2:1 are now giving 3:1 or even 4:1. The evidence is in mid majors scheduling more uneven games in terms of home and away games than even WSU is now. You get money (I don't think WSU is in it for the money) but you give up home games and perceived prestige. The more the big schools think they can play all their games at home, the more they will. If you want more evidence, check out football. Youngstown State is getting 1.7 million to go to Ohio State and the major programs are even paying other BCS schools to travel for one game only. It is worse in football than basketball.

You might have credibility with the jealousy suggestion if Creighton could not get 1 and dones or 2:1s, but Altman has been pretty clear that Creighton has been offered these deals by just about any top program they wanted. Altman is just unwilling to take them. The reason CU fans are probably so against it is that Dana has been drilling the downside to this approach into our heads for years.

Again, I think Turgeon's motives are correct in that he wants to play good teams and get into a position for at large consideration if WSU does not win the tournament. I think that is smart. I even think that he has doen a good job in the specifics of the LSU deal (as I understand them from posters on this board) and that his one and done is with Syracuse and not some team like Seton Hall or Georgia Tech. However, the more you start taking these deals, the more you are expected to do so in the future. The proof is the other mid major teams that are now going 3:1 or even 4:1 with the same teams that were 1:1 or 2:1 most recently.

This is even better. Please name at least 2 schools that have been giving 2-1 and are now giving 3-1 or 4-1. This should be interesting.

[Jayman]

Please name 2 NCAA "teams" that have currently signed a 3-1 deal.

UW-GB
UW-Milwaukee

Not only NCAAs, but also a Sweet 16

Also, thank you for setting the rules SubGod22.

[WuDrWu]

Jayman,

What "perceived prestige" are you talking about? The kind you get from never playing a big game or the kind you get from playing a Big East team that is on SportsCenter every freaking game?


"The proof is the other mid major teams that are now going 3:1 or even 4:1 with the same teams that were 1:1 or 2:1 most recently. "

Awaiting this impressive list or mid-major NCAA teams that were getting 1-1 or 2-1 and are now signing 3-1 and 4-1. Waiting........

To use LJ thought pattern (I know I shouldn't) maybe, just maybe Dana is scared to play opponents like WSU is scheduling and so he sells to the CU faithful that it's "bad" for CU.

Just a thought.......................

[WuDrWu]

UW-GB
UW-Milwaukee

Not only NCAAs, but also a Sweet 16

Also, thank you for setting the rules SubGod22.


Not to seriously question your research skills, but since you already have the information, what teams were they getting 1-1 with and when and are now getting 3-1 or 4-1?

[Jayman]

Not to seriously question your research skills, but since you already have the information, what teams were they getting 1-1 with and when and are now getting 3-1 or 4-1?

Sucks when the facts get in the way.

Marquette

I am done now. This conversation is wearing me out when I am the only one providing the facts in the face of hot air.

[WuDrWu]

Wow,

That is an impressive list of MAJOR (Marquette) schools that used to schedule in state schools 1-1 and now schedule in Wisconsin schools 2,3 and even 4-1.


WSU is obviously on the path to zero home games from now on due to this stunning presedence in the state of Wisconsin. Was Marquette even a major school when they played 1-1? There are so many holes in your attempted theory its laughable.


I'm glad you're done. You're getting buried.

[Jayman]

Wow,

That is an impressive list of MAJOR (Marquette) schools that used to schedule in state schools 1-1 and now schedule in Wisconsin schools 2,3 and even 4-1.


WSU is obviously on the path to zero home games from now on due to this stunning presedence in the state of Wisconsin. Was Marquette even a major school when they played 1-1? There are so many holes in your attempted theory its laughable.


I'm glad you're done. You're getting buried.

Did you even follow any of it? Interesting, I give you the precise answer you ask for and then you stomp your feet and cry. You even make a smartass reply after I already posted the "2 teams" you asked for and make yourself look like a bigger <insert whatever name you would like>. WHO is laughable? :lol:

[Jayfan]

After 3 consecutive CU posters have chimed in, I feel compelled to bring the streak to an abrupt end.

No need to respond to 'hoops.......obviously this was a change of mind and apparently not worthy of trash talk consideration.

TBJ - most of the schools that out-draw CU are also perennially higher rated than CU. So I think you and Dana are sidestepping the issue of scheduling up. Bringing an LSU, for example, to Qwest will never happen under his current scheduling philosophy. So trash your "comeback" on ISASO.

Jayman - Your statement "It is bad scheduling for WSU for the long-term and the rest of the Valley period" contains nothing factual. If you insist on calling it factual, please tell me which stocks are going to outperfrom the S&P 500 over the next 12 months. I think I'm going to have some cash to invest soon. I want to know specific stocks, so that I can track them and prove you wrong.

Jayman, you're entitled to your narrow-minded opinion.


Creighton's average attendence figures in 2005-2006 were better than each team that qualified for the final 4 in 2006, as well as Major conference schools around the midwest such as, 25. Iowa, 26. Iowa State, 27.Oklahoma, 28. Oklahoma State, and 29.Minnesota

22. Texas
31. Florida
32. Michigan
40. Georgetown
42. Villinova
47. LSU

49. Notre Dame
52. Duke
58. UCLA
and after this year we can probably add
11. Ohio State
12. Arkansas
13. Memphis
14. Michigan St.
15. Wake Forest
16. Arizona
17. NC St.
18.Marquette
19.Conneticut

I guess I wouldn't mind playing a home and home w/ any of these teams that we out draw. You are right most of the schools that out-draw CU are also perennially higher rated than CU, but alot are not. Look before you leap next time Outpost!:lol:

[Jayfan]

Jayman,

What "perceived prestige" are you talking about? The kind you get from never playing a big game or the kind you get from playing a Big East team that is on SportsCenter every freaking game?


"The proof is the other mid major teams that are now going 3:1 or even 4:1 with the same teams that were 1:1 or 2:1 most recently. "

Awaiting this impressive list or mid-major NCAA teams that were getting 1-1 or 2-1 and are now signing 3-1 and 4-1. Waiting........

To use LJ thought pattern (I know I shouldn't) maybe, just maybe Dana is scared to play opponents like WSU is scheduling and so he sells to the CU faithful that it's "bad" for CU.

Just a thought.......................

He wasn't affraid to enter a tourney w/ Missiouri, Ohio State, and Notre Dame

[Aargh]

When you draw that many fans and outdraw that many schools - that's when you start BUYING home games with "name" schools.

It seems like with CU's attendance and Gonzaga's tendency to play "name" schools for buyout $$, that CU is in a better position than most schools to "buy" a game with the Zags in Omaha. Maybe Nevada or UAB.

Schools with attendance like CU buy home games, they don't do one-and-ones.

[WSUfan]

Just because you tell it like it is does not make you immune from criticism.

I agree with Joey in that WSU scheduling was in their best interest this year and each team is naturally going to schedule to benefit themselves. The only problem is that it makes it harder for the rest of the valley schools, reduces or at least does not heighten the perception of the quality of teams in the rest of the Valley, and is a short-term solution to a long-term problem. It is good scheduling for WSU this year given their alternatives. It is bad scheduling for WSU for the long-term and the rest of the Valley period.

You can't tell if "It is bad scheduling for WSU for the long-term" until you see how it turns out. You might be right or you might be wrong. Let's wait a few years and see. :grin:

[iSASO]

Creighton's average attendence figures in 2005-2006 were better than each team that qualified for the final 4 in 2006, as well as Major conference schools around the midwest such as, 25. Iowa, 26. Iowa State, 27.Oklahoma, 28. Oklahoma State, and 29.Minnesota

22. Texas
31. Florida
32. Michigan
40. Georgetown
42. Villinova
47. LSU

49. Notre Dame
52. Duke
58. UCLA
and after this year we can probably add
11. Ohio State
12. Arkansas
13. Memphis
14. Michigan St.
15. Wake Forest
16. Arizona
17. NC St.
18.Marquette
19.Conneticut

I guess I wouldn't mind playing a home and home w/ any of these teams that we out draw. You are right most of the schools that out-draw CU are also perennially higher rated than CU, but alot are not. Look before you leap next time Outpost!:lol:

Does Creighton out-draw Syracuse?

[JVShocker]

Umm, Syracuse is #1. They will occasionally trade with Kentucky (usually at #2) but it's pretty much Syracuse's title to lose. :yes:

[LincolnJay]

Does Creighton out-draw Syracuse?

Why does that matter?

[outpost]

Why does that matter?

I'll try posting for ISASO.....I think it matters in terms of payday and what CU has to offer a BCS school.

[JVShocker]

I have been (self) corrected after officially looking up the info. :bash:

Top Avg Attendance figures (AHEM! COUGH COUGH!) Reported:
1. Kentucky 22763
2. SYRACUSE 21587
3. North Carolina 20239
Creighton made the list at #20 (13900), WSU made the list #37 (10435 and that's sselling out darn near every game minus a handful of cowardly no-shows), and Bradley made it at #54 (9220).

I'm sure ACTUAL attendance (over PAID attendance) varies a little, but to be honest, WSU games "look" sold out save a seat here and there which would be gobbled up by waiting bystanders were it possible. Oh, and I can speak for no other team on the list in terms of actual vs. paid so have at it boys. :banana:

[MoValley John]

Nebraska only posts paid attendance.:lol:

[Jayfan]

Does Creighton out-draw Syracuse?

No. Your point?

[iSASO]

Altman won't do a 1-and-done with schools because Creighton out-draws them. At least that's the excuse/reason he gives them.

So why not play Syracuse? They don't fit the self-righteous criteria. Creighton will never out-draw them. What's the hold-up Dana?

[blueblood]

Creighton outdraws WSU each and every game. WSU could accept 2 and done for the conference season. With room for 17,500 in the QWEST Turgeon has shown he will accept two trips to Omaha and be bought out twice.

[WuDrWu]

Creighton outdraws WSU each and every game. WSU could accept 2 and done for the conference season. With room for 17,500 in the QWEST Turgeon has shown he will accept two trips to Omaha and be bought out twice.


:sleeping:


Do you not realize that Syracuse provides both QUALITY and NAME, as opposed to your school, which provides neither.


Btw, you are forgetting to factor in the Joan of Ark giveaways that would seriously hamper CU's ability to "buy" anyone. Freebies don't pay the bills.

[iSASO]

Blueblood, that's utterly stupid. You can do better.

[Jayfan]

:sleeping:


Do you not realize that Syracuse provides both QUALITY and NAME, as opposed to your school, which provides neither.


We may not provide both QUALITY(?) or name...

but we will provide you w/ two losses this year

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h22/cstaley1/woodshed.jpg

[DoubleJayAlum]

Do you not realize that Syracuse provides both QUALITY and NAME, as opposed to your school, which provides neither.


Btw, you are forgetting to factor in the Joan of Ark giveaways that would seriously hamper CU's ability to "buy" anyone. Freebies don't pay the bills.

Here comes the religious bigotry again. :no:

By the way, for those of you who apparently flunked history and are religious bigots, here's a little spelling lesson:

Its Joan of "Arc", not "Ark".
Its Noah's "Ark", not "Arc".

[WuDrWu]

We may not provide both QUALITY(?) or name...

but we will provide you w/ two losses this year

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h22/cstaley1/woodshed.jpg


Put your money where your mouth is, big boy.

Better yet, loser doesn't post for 07-08. How about that?



PS You KNOW your meaning was that CU will sweep the home and home with WSU this season. Will you hold to that or are you going to include a possible third game in St. Louis as a perhaps needed out?

[blueblood]

Blueblood, that's utterly stupid. You can do better.



Why? WSU has a real hard time schedule wise according to Turgeon. According to Turgeon, Creighton has all kinds of unfair connections. Creighton is just trying to help poor WSU out. Maybe Turgeon isn't a whiner, but Altman does feel sorry for the poor guy. Creighton is just twice as nice as Syracuse in offering a twice and done instead of a one and done.

[Jayman]

Altman won't do a 1-and-done with schools because Creighton out-draws them. At least that's the excuse/reason he gives them.

So why not play Syracuse? They don't fit the self-righteous criteria. Creighton will never out-draw them. What's the hold-up Dana?

That is not the reason or the reason he gave. You confused his response for his reasons. Please look back at all the previous posts to understand why Dana does not wish to schedule from an inferior position.

[outpost]

Awww hell....isn't this thread ever gonna die?

How come we're not getting unfairly criticized for taking three one-and-dones in British Columbia?????

As I said earlier, if the author of the thread had checked his spelling, and properly labeled this topic Turgeon the Winner as he should have, it would've saved us all from having to engage in all this silliness and unpleasantness......

[blueblood]

Awww hell....isn't this thread ever gonna die?

How come we're not getting unfairly criticized for taking three one-and-dones in British Columbia?????

As I said earlier, if the author of the thread had checked his spelling, and properly labeled this topic Turgeon the Winner as he should have, it would've saved us all from having to engage in all this silliness and unpleasantness......


The Canadian teams are not playing in Wichita next year? Wow, 4 one and dones in one year. Thats got to be some sort of record.

[DJShocker10]

The Canadian teams are not playing in Wichita next year? Wow, 4 one and dones in one year. Thats got to be some sort of record.

Hmmm... I think I remember Creighton playing 1 and dones in Canada.

http://press.creighton.edu/103103/sports.html

Yep.. I do.

[Hooloovoo]

Hmmm... I think I remember Creighton playing 1 and dones in Canada.

http://press.creighton.edu/103103/sports.html

Yep.. I do.

We have blocked that trip out of our memories. It was on that trip where McKinney got the bacteria that forced two cornea transplants.

DON'T CLEAN YOUR CONTACTS WITH CANADIAN (or any, for that matter) TAP WATER!!!

[outpost]

Rest assured, We haven't blocked that trip out of our memories. It was on that trip where McKinney got the bacteria that forced two cornea transplants.

DON'T CLEAN YOUR CONTACTS WITH CANADIAN (or any, for that matter) TAP WATER!!!

Note the slight correction above. This editing is kinda fun!!

Yeah, that's true.......one should never whore themselves out to tap water. :shutup:

[MoValley John]

Can you drink the tap water, or do the same rules in Mexico also apply to Canada?

[Hooloovoo]

Can you drink the tap water, or do the same rules in Mexico also apply to Canada?

I think that Montezuma stayed away from Canada. Their natives must have a things against eyes. :wacko:

[Jayfan]

Put your money where your mouth is, big boy.

Better yet, loser doesn't post for 07-08. How about that?



PS You KNOW your meaning was that CU will sweep the home and home with WSU this season. Will you hold to that or are you going to include a possible third game in St. Louis as a perhaps needed out?

Ok no prob if Creighton Sweeps WSU in the regular season your gone till first game of 08'-09' if not I'm gone till first game of 08'-09'.

[MoValley John]

I think that Montezuma stayed away from Canada. Their natives must have a things against eyes. :wacko:

Just in case, the next time I go to Canada, I'm bathing in beer!

[DJShocker10]

Just in case, the next time I go to Canada, I'm bathing in beer!

LMAO! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[TrueBlueJay]

One should never whore themselves out for 1 and dones. :shutup:

Corrected

[iSASO]

Originally Posted by outpost
One should never whore themselves out for 1 and dones, especially if your coach has no confidence in his team or himself.

Seems as though you guys left something out. It's OK, I got it.

[outpost]

Author of this quote likely serving time in Corrections

Nope. Corrrected.

[TrueBlueJay]

I'm gay and proud of it.

Not that there is anything wrong with that - but why do you feel the need to share this with the board?

[outpost]

Not that there is anything wrong with that - but why do you feel the need to share this with the board?

Why do you feel the need to confirm my suspicions about Dana's sexual preferences and share them with the board??

I respect your coach's need for keeping it in the closet, and you should too.

[TrueBlueJay]

OP - I usually enjoy your humor - but that was pretty lame.

[outpost]

It's early!!

C'mon......nobody's perfect, although I know for a fact that Dana would try to make a case for himself.

I've seen him in action numerous times on the court of hardwood debate.