SIU still a Mid Major? Stirring the Pot

[dogdays]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Found this quote in an article on the MACC and Marist on ESPN.com...so at least in one persons opinon on the east coast.... which team from the Valley may no longer be considered mid major..all the Shocker fans seem to think their run last year put them on top both statistically and media wise..while the SIU fans argue that 5 years in a row have taken the Salukis to another level...well here is the quote for what its worth..

"Every school right now is dying to become the next George Mason -- even as virtually every mid-major coach, while publicly singing the praises of the Colonials' run, will tell you privately that it isn't going to happen again anytime soon -- and every conference is trying to poise itself as the next Missouri Valley. The beat of the mid-major schools is clouding up basketball's hierarchy. Is Southern Illinois still a mid-major? And if Southern Illinois is now a major, who slides into the Salukis' mid-major sneakers?"

So at least in the reporters eyes Southern Illinois must be the school he thinks of when it comes to the top of the Valley and possibly a school that he thinks is a major....he didnt say Wichita State or Bradley ....

[outpost]

Not trying to stir up any smack, but IMHO let 'em visit your arena before they make their final decision.

[dogdays]

So now its about cosmetics not results...I will talke our record and our performance over the past 5 years in spite of our dated Arean...toughest place to play in the Valley...

[DaShox]

Marist? Hey, what do the people from Youngstown State think?

[siudog]

What does the arena have to do with a major or mid-major team... Look at Duke who plays in 7500???? seat arena.. (Correct me if I am wrong on the size)... The whole mid-major and major thing has to do with money in the athletic budgets and so on and so forth... If our football team was making millions every game in revenue we would be considered major but our operating budget for the entire athletic programs is somewhere around 14 million.. where as U of Michigan has that in the football budget alone and their entire budget is anybodys guess...

:valley: :salukis:

[outpost]

IMHO, you've got to look at the total package.....facilities, post-season track record, regularity of prime time television appearances, scheduling....add to it whatever you want.

While SIU undoubtedly has a good post-season track record, its facilities are aging and it isn't a name everyone runs to frequently for a nationwide telecast.

Again, not denigrating SIU or its success, but I don't see how the average basketball analyst can differentiate SIU from several other schools in the Valley. Go back 10 years, 15 years, etc.......

Looking 10 years ahead, I hope that the entire conference gets a better perception nationally.

BTW, I don't call Gonzaga a major program.......not with the weak conference that they play in.

[dogdays]

Da Shox...the article was about the MACC and in the article the paragraph on mid majors etc..appeared...figures that would be your response..unless somehow I missed your humor.....

[barkeep1967]

While SIU undoubtedly has a good post-season track record, its facilities are aging and it isn't a name everyone runs to frequently for a nationwide telecast.



Please tell me which Valley team was on national tv more last year ?

[rjl]

Please tell me which Valley team was on national tv more last year ?

Not sure how many times SIU was on national TV, but this is WSU:

National regular or basic cable:
ESPN2 - 3 times
CBS - 3 times

National "special" cable:
ESPNU - 4 times
CSTV - 1 time

Several times on FSN, but that's a given in the Valley and not National anyway.

[barkeep1967]

EPSN 1
ESpn 2 4
CBS 2

ESPN 360 2
ESPN U 3

Going off memory and there have been alot of beers since last spring but I think thats what it was.

[valleyclimber]

IMO if the Valley has a couple more seasons in a row like this past season, then there will be ALOT of fans and media across the country that will NOT perceive the MVC as "mid-major". It's not just about SIU, WSU, CU, but instead about the overall strength of the entire Valley.

Looking forward to this season soooooooooo much because I want to see the Valley keep gaining the national respect it deserves. :clap:

:braves: :jays: :bulldogs: :aces: :redbirds: :sycamores: :bears: :panthers: :salukis: :shockers: and :valley:

[salukibob]

Not trying to stir up any smack, but IMHO let 'em visit your arena before they make their final decision.

I'd rather have you guys visit our Arena. We love to play you at our place! :salukis: :clap: :banana: :lol:

[rjl]

IMO if the Valley has a couple more seasons in a row like this past season, then there will be ALOT of fans and media across the country that will NOT perceive the MVC as "mid-major". It's not just about SIU, WSU, CU, but instead about the overall strength of the entire Valley.

Looking forward to this season soooooooooo much because I want to see the Valley keep gaining the national respect it deserves. :clap:

:braves: :jays: :bulldogs: :aces: :redbirds: :sycamores: :bears: :panthers: :salukis: :shockers: and :valley:

Yep.

Our current contract is with Fox Sports, but on a 'regional' level (FSN Midwest).

The Valley has history and tradition.
The Valley has great teams, great basketball.
The Valley has great venues.
The Valley has a great schedule.

The one major thing that will put the Valley over the top, something the BCS conferences have and we don't, is a big-time television contract.

If we can improve.... or hell, even stay the same as we were last year.... for 2 - 3 more years, I bet we can get ESPN2 or the like.

[outpost]

IMO if the Valley has a couple more seasons in a row like this past season, then there will be ALOT of fans and media across the country that will NOT perceive the MVC as "mid-major". It's not just about SIU, WSU, CU, but instead about the overall strength of the entire Valley.

Looking forward to this season soooooooooo much because I want to see the Valley keep gaining the national respect it deserves. :clap:

:braves: :jays: :bulldogs: :aces: :redbirds: :sycamores: :bears: :panthers: :salukis: :shockers: and :valley:

Amen.

I'd rather have you guys visit our Arena. We love to play you at our place!

Sorry, but in conference its a mandatory home and home for now.

[Ricky Del Rio]

The abyss beckons.

[XSaluki]

One positive note on a team outside of WSU, and the response is predictable. However, we should all relax because there is a whole thread full of excuses regarding this "mentality".

[outpost]

None of my posts here can be exactly classified as negative, X-Sal.

I have believed all along that "a rising tide lifts all boats."

That belief is applicable to the MVC as a whole, not just one team.

Thanks for letting me play.

[Maggie]

IMO if the Valley has a couple more seasons in a row like this past season, then there will be ALOT of fans and media across the country that will NOT perceive the MVC as "mid-major". It's not just about SIU, WSU, CU, but instead about the overall strength of the entire Valley.

Looking forward to this season soooooooooo much because I want to see the Valley keep gaining the national respect it deserves. :clap:

:braves: :jays: :bulldogs: :aces: :redbirds: :sycamores: :bears: :panthers: :salukis: :shockers: and :valley:

VC is correct. It will take the sustained success of several valley teams in the post season for several years to change the mid-major perception. Multiple teams will have to make a run in the NCAA tournament. Case in point is SIU which has had a wonderful run the past five years. However, SIU will never be considered a "major" team if the valley is not considered a major conference. Furthermore, SIU will have to keep its coaches. When a school continues to lose good coaches to BCS conference teams that creates the impression that that school is not a BCS caliber school. There is still much to prove to the "outside" world for the MVC. It is not about a single team.

[dogdays]

Maggie,
I for the most part agree with all that you said...very good points...my point to start this thread was that in the past several months several(not all) WSU fans have acted like one run to the sweet 16 made them the media darlings of the valley and somehow thrust them past everyone else...my point and it was a small one was that at least in one writers mind from the east coast on ESPN thinks of SIU when it comes to the Valley and the possibility of now being a major....he wasnt thinking of WSU or BU...and the reason ,is because of SIU's rise over the past 5 years...not a one year run...that has been the argument on here for several months and in my mind this article showed that at some level at least with this writer his perception is that SIU is where some WSU fans think they ought to be as the top basketball school in the Valley...becuase of consistancy and repeated trips to the NCAA, not one run...and to address the WSU poster who thinks because SIU's Arena is outdated means they cant be considered a major...take a look at some of the facilities that some supposed major schools on the east and west coast play in...The SIU Arena looks like the Taj Mahal compared to them....And lastly, you can bet if this same writer had said WSU instead of SIU , all those WSU fans who have been touting their supremacy the past few months would have been on here in a minute saying " I told you so""..you know for sure thats what would have happened..

[Maggie]

dogdays,

The fact that this particular writer, when presumably researching the MVC, mentioned SIU due to its recent success is not surprising. But the answer to his question about whether SIU has shed the mid-major label is, unfortunately,….no. And the same goes for every other Valley team. SIU earning bids to the NCAA is great but now they need to consistently win in the tournament. The Valley needs them to win. Additionally, if SIU expects to get to the "next level" (however you want to define that) it should, as an institution, invest in and financially support its program. Pay your coach. Build new facilities – I have never been to SIU's home court but if it is indeed "outdated" as some seem to think – then look into improving it. A fancy new arena does not make you a "major" team but it will help with recruiting, making your coach feel appreciated – like he is part of building something, etc. (I know it is not easy because many Valley schools do not have the financial resources of other conferences). Can you be successful without doing these things – sure – but it is more difficult.
I am a WSU fan and I would have wrote the same thing had this writer mentioned WSU instead of SIU. If some talking head is asking whether a valley team should be considered a "major" – that is good for everyone. And I hope that WSU has the same kind of success that SIU has had the last few years; however, I also hope they will do better. In fact, I hope all the valley teams top to bottom continue to improve. That is the only way for the conference to shed the mid-major label – which in my opinion should be the ultimate goal.

[outpost]

And lastly, you can bet if this same writer had said WSU instead of SIU , *all those WSU fans who have been touting their supremacy the past few months would have been on here in a minute saying " I told you so""..you know for sure thats what would have happened..

dogdays......so what?

Not putting myself in that category*, but it's human nature.

I'm glad that SIU is getting the pub, it's well deserved. But if the rest of the league doesn't rise along with it, the league status will be nothing more than status quo at best.

And the same can be said for WSU, with respect to any pub it may get coming off last year.

[WSUfan]

I think good pub for any Valley team is good for all Valley teams. :salukis:
We need to support one another, at least until MVC play begins. Then it's war.

[dogdays]

Outpost....its human nature for some people not all people....other people have a little more humility and objectivity..

[dogdays]

Maggie
I dont think many SIU fans would disagree that the University needs to step up to the plate when it comes to the coaches salary...that is a fact..as far as the facilites go SIU has already announced Saluki Way..a plan that will have a new football stadium in place and a rennovated SIU Arena as well by 2009 0r 10 so that has already been addressed...and I do agree that faclities and attitude do matter, ...what I object to mostly is the sanctimonius attitude of some shocker fans about WSU and how SIU or anyone else for that matter somehow doest match up to the Shockers...and I guess for those who think that way I would ask one last question? Since Koch Arena is what, three years old now...or is it two...does that mean WSU was somehow a substandard University and athletic program until two years ago( as the old roundhouse was pretty worn itself) ... I dont think so...If everyone was as reasonable and objective as you have been on this thread I doubt wed have a lot of this crap that goes back and forth..

[RoyalShock]

I'd like to weigh in on this.

I don't blame the writer for picking SIU as an example. I have never devalued SIU's run of 5 straight appearances, partly because they've also attained a S16 and won a game since then. But to counter what this writer thinks, I can also trot out a recent Andy Katz chat transcript that says WSU is most likely to become the next Gonzaga.

Another difference between the success of SIU and WSU is how the conference was different when each made their S16 runs. 2002 put the MVC on the radar. But there was still skepticism. They then continued to put multiple teams in the tournament, proving that the league wasn't going anywhere. That was step number 1. Then last year we were given the opportunity to put up or shut up. The MVC responded by putting two teams in the S16. So here is what it breaks down to in regards to SIU and WSU:

SIU - Returns all starters from a program that has made 5 straight appearances, but needed a league tournament championship to get in to the dance. They were then humbled in the first round. SIU has gotten mixed pre-season reviews.

WSU - Won a regular season championship by 2 games in a league that finished 6/7 in various computer rankings and put four teams in the dance. Obtained a 7-seed via at-large bid and reached the 2nd weekend of the dance. They return all but one significant player with plenty of new talent in a league that is now getting a lot of respect and publicity.

It's arguable, but I think the pre-season love that WSU has been getting is deserved, as is some of the hype fans are spouting. Although, it means WSU (and CU) has added pressure this year which could work to SIU's favor.

The bottom line is that it is all pre-season speculation and prognostication, which has about as much credibility as last year's pre-season predictions. Not much.

Can we please skip right to mid-October? Please?????

:shockers::salukis::jays::bears:

:valley:

[RoyalShock]

yah that sleeping giant who has had one good season....SIU is shaking in their boots. Just one question, I wonder if SIU fans were like this after 2002 when they went to the sweet 16? I mean I can see it now, after 5 in a row...but man I hope we weren't like this in 2002.

The situations are different. If I recall, when SIU went to their S16, the conference was still not considered a challenge to the majors and generally regarded as a potential fluke (in hindsight it obviously wasn't). Now that the MVC has gained a lot of respect it is reasonable to think that WSU (and the MVC) can continue to build on it. Didn't SIU also have to face losing 2 or 3 of their starters after that season? Or was it only Roberts, with Dearman and Williams leaving the next season?

[Jayball]

yah that sleeping giant who has had one good season....SIU is shaking in their boots. Just one question, I wonder if SIU fans were like this after 2002 when they went to the sweet 16? I mean I can see it now, after 5 in a row...but man I hope we weren't like this in 2002.

Yeah everyone is like this a little when their teams are good. I remember a flood of SIU posters after the website was put in their school paper. It was pretty insufferable here for awhile. I know some Bluejay fans were crowning us the best team ever when we got ranked in the top 10 during KK senior year. It happens. There just happen to be a lot more WSU fans on the site than there used to be.

But I will say some WSU fans have been pretty insufferable since the begining. Before they got good, they would just attempt to devalue anyone's success by pointing to WSU glory days. Now that they are good, they are saving us all and automatically jump to permanent elite status.

[SiuCubFan8]

The situations are different. If I recall, when SIU went to their S16, the conference was still not considered a challenge to the majors and generally regarded as a potential fluke (in hindsight it obviously wasn't). Now that the MVC has gained a lot of respect it is reasonable to think that WSU (and the MVC) can continue to build on it. Didn't SIU also have to face losing 2 or 3 of their starters after that season? Or was it only Roberts, with Dearman and Williams leaving the next season?

Only Rolan, JD and kent left the following year.

[martymoose]

:yawn:


Exactly....you are getting sleepy...very sleepy. :sleeping:

Now that the Shox are taking over, you can take a nap. :original:

[martymoose]

Yeah everyone is like this a little when their teams are good. I remember a flood of SIU posters after the website was put in their school paper. It was pretty insufferable here for awhile. I know some Bluejay fans were crowning us the best team ever when we got ranked in the top 10 during KK senior year. It happens. There just happen to be a lot more WSU fans on the site than there used to be.

But I will say some WSU fans have been pretty insufferable since the begining. Before they got good, they would just attempt to devalue anyone's success by pointing to WSU glory days. Now that they are good, they are saving us all and automatically jump to permanent elite status.

I've been on this site....what, almost 5 years now I think. Off season is always full of crap and ***** talk. Once the season starts it will all change. I have to agree with you though, when valleytalk was put in the SIU paper, that was the worst time of all. I think we had over 100 SIU fans on here spewing garbage. At least with Shocker fans, there are only a few of us having fun. Over all year after year though WSU has consistantly had the most fans on here.

[Shox21]

what I object to mostly is the sanctimonius attitude of some shocker fans about WSU


Thank you for not lumping all WSU posters into one boat. The revamp of Koch Arena was not accomplished overnight. Congratulations to SIU, Bradley, and Creighton (yeah, yeah, I know that old "own vs rent" argument and it's crap) for updating and expanding the facilities they use. I still wish WSU had had a little crystal ball to see that we needed to add more seats to Koch during the renovation. But hopefully IF we continue to do well, the future will take care of itself.

I want the Valley to become so good it will be thought of as a major conference rather than a mid-major with some good teams. In order to do that, ALL Valley teams need to improve not only their teams, but their facilities and their ability to keep their coaches.

I don't think SIU/CU/MSU are going ANYWHERE, nor do I want them to. They are here to stay. A really good conference is made of a group of strong teams, not one team with everyone else trailing behind. I, for one, am making no predictions other than the Valley is going to be good -- really good -- this year. I love WSU and wish the best for them, but I refuse to "stir the pot" to the point of really pi$$ing fans from other Valley schools off. This is a conference made up of teams (plural) and I hope come November we start acting like it. I am willing to just let the teams do the talking on the floor, and let the chips fall where they may.

[SiuCubFan8]

Exactly....you are getting sleepy...very sleepy. :sleeping:

Now that the Shox are taking over, you can take a nap. :original:

:thumbdown:
Bad joke!

[MSNSaluki]

I think good pub for any Valley team is good for all Valley teams. :salukis:
We need to support one another, at least until MVC play begins. Then it's war.

Exactly.:valley:

[martymoose]

:thumbdown:
Bad joke!


I kinda liked it.. :grin:

:shockers: :salukis:

[outpost]

This just in.......Pluto downgraded from a mid-major planet to a non-planet..........

[Maggie]

Maggie
I dont think many SIU fans would disagree that the University needs to step up to the plate when it comes to the coaches salary...that is a fact..as far as the facilites go SIU has already announced Saluki Way..a plan that will have a new football stadium in place and a rennovated SIU Arena as well by 2009 0r 10 so that has already been addressed...and I do agree that faclities and attitude do matter, ...what I object to mostly is the sanctimonius attitude of some shocker fans about WSU and how SIU or anyone else for that matter somehow doest match up to the Shockers...and I guess for those who think that way I would ask one last question? Since Koch Arena is what, three years old now...or is it two...does that mean WSU was somehow a substandard University and athletic program until two years ago( as the old roundhouse was pretty worn itself) ... I dont think so...If everyone was as reasonable and objective as you have been on this thread I doubt wed have a lot of this crap that goes back and forth..

I am aware of the Saluki Way project, in general, but not the specifics. That's great for SIU. I would be more worried about keeping your coach. Hopefully, as time goes on the MVC as a whole will no longer be viewed as a stop over on a coaches career and I think it has made progress in that area. With regard to WSU fans, I think you will find that most would agree that the overall success of the MVC is important to the success of WSU. When I was child, I went to every WSU game in the early 80s but before I left Wichita, I also went to every game in the early 90s. Therefore, I for one am guardedly optimistic about WSU's future. I agree with most posters – WSU had a good run last year, they won a battle of attrition in regular conference play, and showed well in the tournament. I was proud of the team's run and it was a pleasure to defend not only WSU but also all valley teams against fans from Villanova, Connecticut, Georgetown, Seton Hall, etc. However, that was last year. It doesn't really matter anymore.
So I do wish SIU and all the valley teams great success in the non-con. But I am a bit concerned – it will be more difficult than ever before. These so called BCS teams won't underestimate a MVC team anymore. They are not going to "give up their crown" easily – it will have to be taken from them. Additionally, the so called non BCS teams will be gunning for what they hope will be a quality win. In my opinion, valley teams will be marked teams in the non-con portion of the season.

[Maggie]

This just in.......Pluto downgraded from a mid-major planet to a non-planet..........

Very clever.

[SiuCubFan8]

This just in.......Pluto downgraded from a mid-major planet to a non-planet..........

Now that is funny!:lol:

Only because there atmosphere is so old and rundown. They really need to upgrade if they want to "Take the Next Step".:grin:

[outpost]

Now that is funny!:lol:

Only because there atmosphere is so old and rundown. They really need to upgrade if they want to "Take the Next Step".:grin:

They were notified, and given about 75 years to do so......much longer than anyone should reasonably be given.......word finally got back from "out there" yesterday......it was too cost-prohibitive to do so.

The committee took quick action.

[SiuCubFan8]

They were notified, and given about 75 years to do so......much longer than anyone should reasonably be given.......word finally got back from "out there" yesterday......it was too cost-prohibitive to do so.

The committee took quick action.

Pluto-Way will most likly be done before Saluki Way is!:valley: :lol: :grin:

[XSaluki]

Read the title moron.... "Stirring the Pot" plus he added a couple of shots against WSU and Bradley and you don't expect a response???? SIU will soon be on the way out with CU to make room for the sleeping giant who has finally awakened. :lol:

:shockers:

Thank you. I was waiting for your "predictable" response. I hope next time you show more wit and cool-headed prose vs. name calling. It shows your cards. It shows your weakness.

Here is your answer:

He was predicting the "stir". You helped prove it. The irony of your reaction is a beautiful thing.

Where did I say southern fans were innocent? I just said that the WSU responses were predictable.

BTW - I am predicting your response right now...

:grin:

[martymoose]

Thank you. I was waiting for your "predictable" response. I hope next time you show more wit and cool-headed prose vs. name calling. It shows your cards. It shows your weakness.

Here is your answer:

He was predicting the "stir". You helped prove it. The irony of your reaction is a beautiful thing.

Where did I say southern fans were innocent? I just said that the WSU responses were predictable.

BTW - I am predicting your response right now...

:grin:


Oooooh....so sorry almighty Saluki fan....continue to bash WSU, we won't defend ourselves anymore... :doh:

No one "proved" anything except SIU fans are feeling left out with the top 2 teams in the Valley fighting (WSU & CU), and SIU nowhere to be found. Now try not to lose to any D2 teams this year... :lol:

[XSaluki]

Oooooh....so sorry almighty Saluki fan....continue to bash WSU, we won't defend ourselves anymore... :doh:

No one "proved" anything except SIU fans are feeling left out with the top 2 teams in the Valley fighting (WSU & CU), and SIU nowhere to be found. Now try not to lose to any D2 teams this year... :lol:

The D2 thing is almost original. However it is still funny. I think a better one is getting flogged by West Virginia in the tourney; the worst was the CU spanking we took in the MVC tourney finals on ESPN (a couple years back).

I don't bash WSU, I have respect for the program. I just point out facts about the threads and some WSU poster's predictable responses.

I will be the first to say the Southern fans in prior years were doing exactly the same thing (I said this in another thread).

ColdBlodded stays cool and entertains with wit, iSASO is more creative with his catch slogans. Your schtick needs some work.
The teams may change, but for you the song will remain the same. :grin:

[SubGod22]

This just in.......Pluto downgraded from a mid-major planet to a non-planet..........

Is that official? I hadn't heard yet. Too bad, I was pulling for the little guy

[SiuCubFan8]

Is that official? I hadn't heard yet. Too bad, I was pulling for the little guy

It is official. We have oil problems ect ect ect and these numbnuts sat and debated wether Pluto should be a planet, unbelievable.

[MSNSaluki]

Only Rolan, JD and kent left the following year.


sorry, but we lost marcus belcher in addition to roberts.:salukis:

[SiuCubFan8]

sorry, but we lost marcus belcher in addition to roberts.:salukis:

we were talking about players that were good.:lol:

[MSNSaluki]

we were talking about players that were good.:lol:

oh, i missed that part.
i thought we were just talking about starters.

btw, belcher turned out to be FAR better than i ever thought he would. he and rolan had those half-court, alley-oop passes down by the end of the year.

[SiuCubFan8]

oh, i missed that part.
i thought we were just talking about starters.

btw, belcher turned out to be FAR better than i ever thought he would. he and rolan had those half-court, alley-oop passes down by the end of the year.

Here is an interesting point. Some WSU posters have said that SIU has not made significant progress since the S16 year. Well Belcher started on that team and he would not even be in the rotation on this years team. I think that is progress in talent.

[outpost]

........."A rising tide lifts all boats."........

But not in the case of Pluto. No tides on that dry ol' rock......not even good enough to be a D-3 planet.

http://www.perfumania.com/ngimages/big/PR/PRFM-135589.gif

[MoValley John]

........."A rising tide lifts all boats."........

But not in the case of Pluto. No tides on that dry ol' rock......not even good enough to be a D-3 planet.

http://www.perfumania.com/ngimages/big/PR/PRFM-135589.gif+

I always said that Pluto was overrated, but nobody listened.

[barkeep1967]

Let me get this straight.

Now WSU'S S16 is better than SIU's Because the conference was better.


Good lord you shucks fans are creative thinkers.

[iSASO]

barkeep, you may have a good point there. Let's see, the conference champion during the best year the conference has had in at least 23 years, maybe 35 years, maybe 40 years also went to the Sweet 16, and that's not a more distinguished accomplishment than SIU's solo job in 2002?

Maybe you're going to tell me now that the 2002 season was better than the 2006 season. You make the call.

[barkeep1967]

No I am not.

Winning the conference last year was probably more impressive. HOWEVER!

The sweet 16 appearece was not. SIU beat Bobby Knight and Jim Harrick. I might add their loss was to UCONN. That run was every bit as impressive then last year. I have never taken anything away from what the Shucks did last year and I am not now.Just to say one sweet 16 is better than another is a little pathetic I think.

[Fraydog]

The abyss beckons.

Don't just say it. Make your case...

[Carrcar]

No I am not.

Winning the conference last year was probably more impressive. HOWEVER!

The sweet 16 appearece was not. SIU beat Bobby Knight and Jim Harrick. I might add their loss was to UCONN. That run was every bit as impressive then last year. I have never taken anything away from what the Shucks did last year and I am not now.Just to say one sweet 16 is better than another is a little pathetic I think.
It should be noted SIU also beat #2 Indiana that year...the BIG reason teams won't come to C'dale.

[outpost]

No I am not.

Winning the conference last year was probably more impressive. HOWEVER!

The sweet 16 appearece was not. SIU beat Bobby Knight and Jim Harrick. I might add their loss was to UCONN. That run was every bit as impressive then last year. I have never taken anything away from what the Shucks* did last year and I am not now.Just to say one sweet 16 is better than another is a little pathetic I think.

Every time you refer to us this way*, you take away from it.