Western Kentucky

[Lurking Dog]

posted on the WKU board, re possible move to Division I-A:

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Here is the email I got this morning!

Fellow Faculty and Staff:

As I indicated in our opening Convocation, we will discuss throughout our University family, the matter of division I-A football over the next several weeks. This has been a matter that has received considerable attention on our campus for the last few years. The time has come to engage our campus in a thoughtful, thorough, and objective dialogue. I will be collecting as much information as possible in order to make an informed recommendation to our Board of Regents.

In this regard, we will use the following schedule as a means to bring as much insight and discussion among key groups in our University family as possible.
August 15 Meet with football coaches.
August 16 Meet with football team.
August 17 Notify Patty Viverito, the Commissioner of the Gateway Conference, that discussions are under way.
August 18 Meet with Wright Waters, Commissioner of the Sun Belt Conference, to seek insight and inform that discussions are under way.
August 18 Meet with Hilltoppper Athletic Foundation Board of Directors/W-Club Board.
August 29 Meet with University Athletics Committee.
September 13 Meet with WKU Touchdown Club.
September 13 Conduct faculty/staff forum.
September 19 Conduct forum for HAF members.
September 20 Conduct forum for students.
September 21 Conduct forum for WKU alumni.
September 21 Discuss with University Senate at the first Senate meeting in FY 06-07.
October 2 Board Committee meetings.

I look forward to discussing this matter with all interested parties over the next several weeks. Thank you.

Gary Ransdell

[Fraydog]

They've got no chance. Absofreakin' lutely no chance.

Expect this future score soon:

Ohio State 77
WKU 3

:valley: not Gateway :nopity:

[BearsCountry]

Wish the Toppers luck hope to see the Bears up with them soon.

[cpacmel]

They've got no chance. Absofreakin' lutely no chance.

Expect this future score soon:

Ohio State 77
WKU 3

:valley: not Gateway :nopity:

Fraydog, I am really surprised you say this. Correct me if I am wrong, but you are an SIU guy, right? Didn't SIU give NIU everything they wanted just a few season ago? NIU is no slouch on the college football scene.

Why couldn't WKU have the same sort of success that NIU did?

I give them credit for going for.

[MoValley John]

Fraydog, I am really surprised you say this. Correct me if I am wrong, but you are an SIU guy, right? Didn't SIU give NIU everything they wanted just a few season ago? NIU is no slouch on the college football scene.

Why couldn't WKU have the same sort of success that NIU did?

I give them credit for going for.

I will give you the answer: Because NIU is no Ohio State.

[Fraydog]

Fraydog, I am really surprised you say this. Correct me if I am wrong, but you are an SIU guy, right? Didn't SIU give NIU everything they wanted just a few season ago? NIU is no slouch on the college football scene.

Why couldn't WKU have the same sort of success that NIU did?

I give them credit for going for.

I think that D-IA that is non-BCS is a losing fiscal proposition for WKU. That's the main issue. If WSU or SIU can't do D-IA football, then what makes WKU - a rural school with smaller enrollments than WSU or SIU in an even poorer area than Southern Illinois - think they can pull both the attendance and alumni support to go I-A, especially in this era of shrinking fiscal support. I would wish for WKU to be a Valley school if anything. It would be a better place for them.

[cpacmel]

I think that D-IA that is non-BCS is a losing fiscal proposition for WKU. That's the main issue. If WSU or SIU can't do D-IA football, then what makes WKU - a rural school with smaller enrollments than WSU or SIU in an even poorer area than Southern Illinois - think they can pull both the attendance and alumni support to go I-A, especially in this era of shrinking fiscal support. I would wish for WKU to be a Valley school if anything. It would be a better place for them.

I will give you that WKU has a smaller enrollment 18,500 for WKU and 21,500 for SIU.

But poorer area? I am not sure I agree with that. The Median salary for Bowling Green is 29K per year, while in Carbondale it's 15,882. The Median house value in Bowling Green is $104, 200 compared to Carbondale's $73K.

Probably the biggest difference is population:

Bowling Green 49, 296
Carbondale 26,000

Bowling Green does havethe 183 biggest media market. For comparison sake, Lafayette, Indiana (purdue's market) has the 191 biggest media market.

[Lurking Dog]

I don't see Bowling Green's population as a significant factor. They have plenty of alumni nearby in Nashville and Louisville. They are already close to the 15,000 per game requirement. I think I-A Sun Belt membership would work for them--especially with MTSU on the schedule, just like the old days.

[Fraydog]

I will give you that WKU has a smaller enrollment 18,500 for WKU and 21,500 for SIU.

But poorer area? I am not sure I agree with that. The Median salary for Bowling Green is 29K per year, while in Carbondale it's 15,882. The Median house value in Bowling Green is $104, 200 compared to Carbondale's $73K.

Probably the biggest difference is population:

Bowling Green 49, 296
Carbondale 26,000

Bowling Green does havethe 183 biggest media market. For comparison sake, Lafayette, Indiana (purdue's market) has the 191 biggest media market.

First of all, you toss the students out of Carbondale's median salary, I will bet you it will be higher than Bowling Green's. We pay our top administrators on this campus in excess of $300,000 a year. Secondly, we have Saluki fans all over the media market, including in Southeast Missouri and Western Kentucky. Our media market is 73rd in the country, now if we could get more support and students from Cape Girardeau and Paducah, it would be gravy. However, our BOT lacks the political will to let people from all over the region pay in-state tuition.

So overall, we have more potential to be big than WKU in my opinion. Even with those factors, it would be a tough jump for us to go to I-A. What WKU is doing is letting a historic program in Men's Basketball go to pot for a chance to be in the MAC. Talk about counterproductive...

[Lurking Dog]

Not the MAC...the Sun Belt. Read the first post in this thread carefully.

WKU has been in the Sun Belt for other sports since 1982.

[Fraydog]

Not the MAC...the Sun Belt. Read the first post in this thread carefully.

WKU has been in the Sun Belt for other sports since 1982.

Oh, so that's where they want to go? Actually, that's even worse. :no:

[BearsCountry]

Oh, so that's where they want to go? Actually, that's even worse. :no:

They are already in the conference.

[Fraydog]

I know. I think they were in the OVC for a long time, I can understand why anything would seem like a jump up from that. However, I still fail to see why Sun Belt Conference football is worth subjecting your program to the Title IX gutting, increased financial requirements, and increased attendance requirements. They should make a vote for preserving the rest of their athletic programs.

One thing is certain. The honeymoon is over for Ramsdell...

[cpacmel]

I will give you the answer: Because NIU is no Ohio State.

Wow John, that is really deep. NIU is NIU, they are well-respected in college football.

Western Kentucky doesn't have to be the next Ohio State. There is nothing wrong with them being the next Western Michigan or Southern Miss or East Carolina

[galojay]

First of all, you toss the students out of Carbondale's median salary, I will bet you it will be higher than Bowling Green's. We pay our top administrators on this campus in excess of $300,000 a year. Secondly, we have Saluki fans all over the media market, including in Southeast Missouri and Western Kentucky. Our media market is 73rd in the country, now if we could get more support and students from Cape Girardeau and Paducah, it would be gravy. However, our BOT lacks the political will to let people from all over the region pay in-state tuition.

So overall, we have more potential to be big than WKU in my opinion. Even with those factors, it would be a tough jump for us to go to I-A. What WKU is doing is letting a historic program in Men's Basketball go to pot for a chance to be in the MAC. Talk about counterproductive...

If you toss out students out of Carobondale, then you have to toss out students in Bowling Green. Would be a pratical wash. BG would still be higher. Not following your logic there.

And I agree with an earlier statement, WKU would be better off in the MVC. Would love to see that, but we need an invite!

[galojay]

I know. I think they were in the OVC for a long time, I can understand why anything would seem like a jump up from that. However, I still fail to see why Sun Belt Conference football is worth subjecting your program to the Title IX gutting, increased financial requirements, and increased attendance requirements. They should make a vote for preserving the rest of their athletic programs.

One thing is certain. The honeymoon is over for Ramsdell...

We already have Title IX issues, but reverse from most schools. We have too many women's scholarships. We have to add men's scholarships already, so that won't be an issue. And you're right SBC is a risky move... but you gain nothing without risk. If we want to get to a better conference, this is a natural step. Where we are now, I-AA, we have no options. MVC isn't calling. So going I-A might open up MAC or C-USA or whatever else is out there in 5-10 years.

I've seen the numbers and the plan, I-A is doable. No, we won't be an Ohio State. But you know what, many I-A schools, in BCS conferences, could get beat by Ohio State by 60 points. That isn't a fair comparison.

[Lurking Dog]

Update:

http://www.courier-journal.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060928/SPORTS/60928037

[skinny_uncle]

So WKU is getting the chance to choose between playing in one of the best IAA conferences in the land or one of the worst in IA.
:doh:

[MSNSaluki]

A couple of thoughts after having read through all the posts.

I've lived in Bowling Green and Carbondale. While an SIU guy, there's no comparison between the two cities. Bowling Green is New York City compared to Carbondale. It's not a poor area. Bad comparison.

It takes a long time to build a I-A program. Joe Novak had a horrible record after 5 years at Northern Illinois but he was doing the right things, building slowly, getting his kids to classes so NIU stuck with him. He's been there 11 years now and the last three or four or five have been pretty dang good.

It's gonna be a long road at WKU.

[Shockerman]

Here's one shocker fan that hopes WKU stays in the Gateway and is somehow invited to the Mo-Valley.

[redbirdtim]

I think we all know that Purdue is huge because of Orville Redenbacher :lol:

[Newsbreaker]

A few thoughts on this, because I think this is a fascinating sub-story overall in I-AA football.

There is a certain allure to I-A football, especially at the BCS level. We turn on ABC, CBS, NBC or ESPN each weekend and see world-class facilities filled with tens of thousands of fans and think "why not us?" Really, what's the difference between Bowling Green, Carbondale, Springfield and Athens, Iowa City, or Champaign?

Unlike professional sports, it's not about media markets, college football is a different beast. Carbondale, Bowling Green and the market I know well, Cedar Falls, are almost identical. CF and Carbondale are smaller cities in decent sized TV markets, near the top-80, but the local radio markets are very small. Bowling Green is a much smaller TV market, and an almost identical radio market.

Again, college football doesn't work like that, however. History can be very instructive here.

In the past several years, there's been a rush of teams away from I-AA and into I-A. One has been wildly successful (Boise State), one has been moderately successful (Marshall) and the rest have not. Some even quitely regret the decision. The fact is, while we look at I-A and I-AA and see the "haves" and us as the "have nots" it's really not like that. You have the BCS schools who are the "haves" and the rest of I-A are the "have nots." They don't get the big TV money, they don't bring in good attendance money, they don't bring in huge advertiser money. They sacrafice financial solvency across the athletic board to have the "prestige" of I-A football, and one game on ESPN every other year.

It really looks like WKU is going to go I-A in football. Does anyone REALLY think that an extra 10,000 - 15,000 fans are going to suddenly show up becasue you're playing in the worst football conference (ranked below the Gateway, by the way) in I-A football, with a "Dream" of playing in the first bowl game each year?

WKU will move, and it will be the death knell of the overall athletic program. That's a lot of extra schollys to pay for, plus much higher operating costs...all money that has to come from somewhere.

Beyond that, the more interesting issue is a more academic one. When you look at the big-time BCS schools, almost universally they are respected, research orientated, nationally renown schools of academia. They are, in short, outstanding schools.

Should a much more average school be raising tuition for any purpose that isn't academic? I agree with the argument that good athletics bring in students and general fund donations, but the question should resonate somewhat.

I mean no disrespect to anyone, I think the bright lights of a level of football Gateway schools will not achieve blinds people from the sound decision.

[DawgFan]

newsbreaker, you are correct.

What is the point? They'll play two or three BCS teams a year on the road for $$ to supplement their increase in scholarships and budget, never get a big team into their home turf, almost totally dissing their hometown fans in the process. Less home games and then you see sun belt which may or may not be better than Gateway football. Big deal.