CU/WSU scheduling

[Aargh]

In the immortal words of MoValleyJohn about scheduling home games with "name" schools: "All you gotta do is tank a couple of years and the "name" schools are lining up to play you".

I guess I've been reading too many posts from CU fans. I checked what's actually happened the last 3 years and to my surprise:

WSU NIT - twice. CU NIT - twice

WSU NCAA - S16. CU NCAA - one and done

2004 MVC: WSU - T2, CU - T2, SIU - 1

2005 MVC: WSU - 2, CU - T3, SIU - 1

2006 MVC: WSU - 1, CU - T2, SIU - T2

No wonder it's easier for CU to schedule home-and-homes. Altman has a great plan. Don't over-achieve. Don't scare any of the "big boys". Don't make any noise in post-season and you can schedule home-and-homes with Xavier and DePaul.

When other teams have more success and can't get ANYBODY to play them at home, rag on them for selling out when they schedule the only games their success will allow.

Altman is the Dean of MVC coaches. As long as CU was the top dog in the Valley Altman was the pride of the Valley. Both WSU and SIU have passed CU in the Valley hierarchy. SIU has a S16 in 2002 and finished #1 in the Valley 2 of the last 3 years. The one year SIU didn't win the Valley, SIU tied with CU. Then SIU won out in St. Louis.

Altman has been a bit too inclined to call whine-one-one and call out the Waaambulance lately. Started with chasing the refs off the floor at an NIT game and continued with calling out Turgeon's scheduling.

Altman had a top-10 team built around a guy that's now an NBA stud. Altman took that team to the round of 32. Turgeon had a top-40 team built around a guy that was AA honorable-mention. Took that team to a S16.

Altman has never seen the difficulties facing Turgeon for scheduling. I don't see where he can criticize Turgeon when he has never made it to the level Turgeon is at and never faced the challenge of scheduling a continually improving program in a continually-improving conference.

Altman faced those challenges when the MVC was the 11-14th rated conference. CU was a top-10 program that never made an NCAA run. Lots of people thought they could take out an overrated CU and scheduled home-and-homes to prove it. Was Chattanooga a home-and-home?

[iSASO]

Maybe when CU was in the tank they got home-home games with power schools.

WSU hasn't had many since word got out in the mid-60's that you have a low probability of going to Wichita and winning - even if they are in the tank. Right Larry Brown, Wimp Sanderson, Gene Keady, Eddie Sutton, Lute Olson?

[outpost]

And I doubt that Leonard Hamilton will ever want to come back.

And (until I see concrete evidence) I doubt that Bob Huggins will want to visit.

And I doubt that Tom Penders will ever want to come back.

And I doubt that Charlie Coles will ever want to come back.

And I know that [fill in the Providence coach after Tim Welsh leaves] will want to visit.

And I doubt [unless he's simply that naive] that the new Nebraska coach will want to visit.

[SubGod22]

PC coach is our friend Bobby Gonzalez from Manhattan.

[iSASO]

Keady is probably the most notorious in this vein. He flatly stated, for public consumption, that he would never come back to Henry Levitt to play after his powerful Elite Eight Purdue team left with an overtime victory.

And he was born in Kansas.

[Jayball]

Just curious when Altman supposedly bashed Turgeon.

[LincolnJay]

Keady is probably the most notorious in this vein. He flatly stated, for public consumption, that he would never come back to Henry Levitt to play after his powerful Elite Eight Purdue team left with an overtime victory.

And he was born in Kansas.

Along the same lines, Keady was on Omaha sports talk radio the year he was retiring and they asked him why he didn't do a home and home with Creighton and he said, "Are you crazy, they're too good!" Refreshingly honest for a BCS coach but frustrating all the same.

[shocktown]

[QUOTE=Aargh]
Altman had a top-10 team built around a guy that's now an NBA stud. Altman took that team to the round of 32.

Aargh fine post, but, someone has got to call you out on this factual inaccuracy.:doh:
The fact is Altmans' post season failure is even more profound than you suggest!:helpsmilie: His 'top ten team' of back in '03 lost in the first round to Central Michigan! I'm sure there was a reasonable explanation as to why(mental fatique,injures,etc..). I know it's been a long time, but you are thinking of wayyy back in '02 when IDWT:jays: last won a Ncaa tourney game.:yes:

[blueness]

CU should have beat Central Michigan (a lot of the players from that team have said that they looked past CMU and looked ahead to playing Duke in the 2nd Round). Thats the only game in Altman's history at CU where his team was the higher seed.

CU should have beat West Virginia. Couple of bounces and that game was the Jays'. (Instead the 'Neers went all the way to the Elite Eight).

I know, its all woulda coulda shoulda...Has Creighton underachieved lately? Maybe (Korver's Senior year they definitely did), but with all other factors considered...maybe they were playing at their real level (think of how depleted those NIT teams were by the end of their runs).

I think it's more a question of whether or not WSU overachieved last season...I think so, but it was great for the Valley and for all mid-majors.

It was bittersweet to watch the Valley teams in the NCAA tournament last season. Knowing all to well that CU has had teams under Altman's watch that were talented enough to make a run to the S16...BUT DIDN'T.

Does this mean Altman is a bad coach...no not at all. But trying to compare Turg to Altman is still tough because WSU has yet to play a true full season (under MT) with the target on their back (SIU and CU both have, with SIU having more reg. season success, and CU having more success in STL).

CU is due...overdue for an NCAA run.

Bradley had theirs
Shocks had theirs
SIU had theirs
even MSU had theirs recently.

[shockball]

In 2003-2004 I believe WSU was the pre-season pick of the Valley coaches for first. Shocks wound up tied for second with CU.

[WuDrWu]

PC coach is our friend Bobby Gonzalez from Manhattan.


It happens so infrequently I had to point it out SG. BG is at the Hall, TW is still the coach at PC, much to the distress of the Friar faithful.

[outpost]

CU should have beat Central Michigan (a lot of the players from that team have said that they looked past CMU and looked ahead to playing Duke in the 2nd Round). Thats the only game in Altman's history at CU where his team was the higher seed.

CU should have beat West Virginia. Couple of bounces and that game was the Jays'. (Instead the 'Neers went all the way to the Elite Eight).

I know, its all woulda coulda shoulda...Has Creighton underachieved lately? Maybe (Korver's Senior year they definitely did), but with all other factors considered...maybe they were playing at their real level (think of how depleted those NIT teams were by the end of their runs).

I think it's more a question of whether or not WSU overachieved last season...I think so, but it was great for the Valley and for all mid-majors.

It was bittersweet to watch the Valley teams in the NCAA tournament last season. Knowing all to well that CU has had teams under Altman's watch that were talented enough to make a run to the S16...BUT DIDN'T.

Does this mean Altman is a bad coach...no not at all. But trying to compare Turg to Altman is still tough because WSU has yet to play a true full season (under MT) with the target on their back (SIU and CU both have, with SIU having more reg. season success, and CU having more success in STL).

CU is due...overdue for an NCAA run.

Bradley had theirs
Shocks had theirs
SIU had theirs
even MSU had theirs recently.

This is a refreshing introspection, maybe not completely accurate, but refreshing nonetheless!! Blueness, you must keep very little koolaid around the house.

Let's all hope that someone can carry the Valley's torch as far as Bradley and Wichita State did last year. Doesn't matter, just Get 'r done!!

[iSASO]

That is the biggest take-away from all of this - someone in the MVC has to get back there this year. At least a couple of first-round wins, please!

[DJShocker10]

In the immortal words of MoValleyJohn about scheduling home games with "name" schools: "All you gotta do is tank a couple of years and the "name" schools are lining up to play you".

I guess I've been reading too many posts from CU fans. I checked what's actually happened the last 3 years and to my surprise:

WSU NIT - twice. CU NIT - twice

WSU NCAA - S16. CU NCAA - one and done

2004 MVC: WSU - T2, CU - T2, SIU - 1

2005 MVC: WSU - 2, CU - T3, SIU - 1

2006 MVC: WSU - 1, CU - T2, SIU - T2

No wonder it's easier for CU to schedule home-and-homes. Altman has a great plan. Don't over-achieve. Don't scare any of the "big boys". Don't make any noise in post-season and you can schedule home-and-homes with Xavier and DePaul.

When other teams have more success and can't get ANYBODY to play them at home, rag on them for selling out when they schedule the only games their success will allow.

Altman is the Dean of MVC coaches. As long as CU was the top dog in the Valley Altman was the pride of the Valley. Both WSU and SIU have passed CU in the Valley hierarchy. SIU has a S16 in 2002 and finished #1 in the Valley 2 of the last 3 years. The one year SIU didn't win the Valley, SIU tied with CU. Then SIU won out in St. Louis.

Altman has been a bit too inclined to call whine-one-one and call out the Waaambulance lately. Started with chasing the refs off the floor at an NIT game and continued with calling out Turgeon's scheduling.

Altman had a top-10 team built around a guy that's now an NBA stud. Altman took that team to the round of 32. Turgeon had a top-40 team built around a guy that was AA honorable-mention. Took that team to a S16.

Altman has never seen the difficulties facing Turgeon for scheduling. I don't see where he can criticize Turgeon when he has never made it to the level Turgeon is at and never faced the challenge of scheduling a continually improving program in a continually-improving conference.

Altman faced those challenges when the MVC was the 11-14th rated conference. CU was a top-10 program that never made an NCAA run. Lots of people thought they could take out an overrated CU and scheduled home-and-homes to prove it. Was Chattanooga a home-and-home?

Turgeon didn't build a team around any one person. He built it around a group of good players instead of one GREAT player. That, my friends, is why WSU made it to the Sweet 16.

:shockers: :shockers:

[LincolnJay]

Turgeon didn't build a team around any one person. He built it around a group of good players instead of one GREAT player. That, my friends, is why WSU made it to the Sweet 16.

:shockers: :shockers:

Hmmmm, some might claim WSU made the Sweet 16 because they drew a horrible Seton Hall team that had no business being in the NCAA tournament and then getting the ABSOLUTELY WORST 2 seed in NCAA history in Tennessee.

:innocent:

[iSASO]

Some astute basketball observers would note that in the Seton Hall game, Ogirri, Miller and Martin led the way. Then in the Tennessee game, Pearl and Co. were so busy taking away Ogirri and Miller that they forgot that WSU had a very good team, therefore they got burned by PJ and Kyle Wilson with a special dose of Karon.

Maybe WSU should have been ranked #10 in the nation earlier in the season and the #2 seed.

[Aargh]

When did Altman call out Turg?

The OWJ article with Altman's "I ask them how much they want" comment was pretty obviously a shot at Turg.

Comments like "I can't tell another coach how to schedule" or "How other schools schedule isn't something I can control, so I don't worry about it" are the expected "coach-speak" in that situation. Altman chose a different route.

Maybe Tennessee didn't deserve a #2 seed, but Tennessee did win the SEC East. The second-place team in the SEC East was Florida. Tennessee won their division by 2 full games over Florida. Probably because they swept Florida home and away in conference play.

Tennessee won their conference and swept the National Champion. In hindsight, Tennessee earned their #2 seed. It seems the fact that WSU beat Tennessee started all the "Tennessee didn't deserve a 2" talk.

WSU lost 9 games on the season. 1/3 of those losses came from S16 or better teams. 2 of those losses were from a F4 team. 8 of those losses were to NCAA Tourney teams. WSU beat the team that swept the NC in conference play. The only loss WSU had to a non-Tourney team was CU.

This should be CU's year to claim a S16 - like MSU, SIU, BU and WSU have done. I don't know if CU's schedule will adequately prepare the Jays for that level of competition, unless the Jays are relying on MVC play to give them the boost they will need.

[WSUbballer]

Hmmmm, some might claim WSU made the Sweet 16 because they drew a horrible Seton Hall team that had no business being in the NCAA tournament and then getting the ABSOLUTELY WORST 2 seed in NCAA history in Tennessee.

:innocent:

The "some" being the ones that didn't make the NCAA tournament.

[SubGod22]

It happens so infrequently I had to point it out SG. BG is at the Hall, TW is still the coach at PC, much to the distress of the Friar faithful.


You're right Doc. What was I thinking? I'm ashamed of myself now and feel like an idiot by missing that one. But I promise this won't become a regular occurance from me:original:

[outpost]

Hmmmm, some might claim WSU made the Sweet 16 because they drew a horrible Seton Hall team that had no business being in the NCAA tournament and then getting the ABSOLUTELY WORST 2 seed in NCAA history in Tennessee.

:innocent:

You wanted to trade places with us, and you know it.

[Jayball]

When did Altman call out Turg?

The OWJ article with Altman's "I ask them how much they want" comment was pretty obviously a shot at Turg.

Comments like "I can't tell another coach how to schedule" or "How other schools schedule isn't something I can control, so I don't worry about it" are the expected "coach-speak" in that situation. Altman chose a different route.

No that is not an obvious shot at Turg. Altman has used that line and practically every event I've been to where he is asked about playing buy out games or going 1 and done somewhere. He had that joke well before Turg scheduled Syracuse. He usually goes on to say that national television can make some scheduling deals worthwhile. And he ususally talks about feeling a responsibility to the season ticket holders to not play all the good teams away from home.

In the OWH article Altman directly stated in coachspeak as you said, "Who am I to tell someone else how to schedule?"

You guys are reaching here. You've been based by other fans but Altman is not playing the high and mighty card as you'd like to believe it. He's simply stated his position on this issue and it has been consistent for years even before WSU was a perrenial S16 team.

[outpost]

Thanks for the clarification from Oma-humble-haha, Jayball.....

j/k......are classes underway yet? Hope they're starting off well for ya.