Which Team Means the Most

[Veritas]

Which school would be the hardest to replace if they should leave the Valley?

Try to write an objective opinion. Assume that you wake up tomorrow and read that school XYZ has left the Valley. Who would be the hardest to replace?

I'd say the Shox because of their overall sports contribution, national reputation/rankings in baseball, basketball success, and media market size.

[DJShocker10]

I would have to say that it couldn't be the Shockers. I mean, ever since I've been on here any team would be welcome to replace us. Then again it could be because no VTers would have anybody to dog on.

:shockers: :shockers:

[outpost]

Difficult to say.......so I won't say it.

I just hope we're all in it for the long haul, and will continue to do what it takes to make this conference better and better.

[Veritas]

I hope the Valley is in for the long haul too with the same teams building new facilities and gaining strength.

I'd personally hate to see MSU or Illinois State leave.
Those two schools have a lot of upside. While Illinois State is struggling a little with their athletic program, their potential is awesome (same with MSU).
Northern Iowa is another program on the upswing with facilities, etc...
SIU could be huge, but I'm not sure about their facilities. I'm still surprised they do so well in basketball.

[iSASO]

That is an interesting question - one that requires consideration of the level of success for all the sports programs a school offers, along with facilities, media market power and various other resources in place.

And since the question centers around the MVC, that would have to preclude football as a factor because there is no such this as MVC football.

I do like the upside of MSU and ISU but that can't count as much as a school which brings a plethora of benefits to the table today. That was the question, wasn't it?

[MSNSaluki]

I think Creighton would be hardest to replace because like it or not, the Blue Jays have a world-class facility and have sold 12,000 season tickets this year. The Valley couldn't really afford to lose a team that can bring BCS attendance numbers to the equations.

You could make the same arguement for Wichita State, I guess, but at last reading Creighton leads the attendance race.

[cuhoops]

southern, wichita, creighton, toss-up.

[NoPlaceLikeDome]

Creighton

[Rasputin]

I think it is difficult to say which team means the "most." You could make strong arguments for at least 3 programs.

Creighton: Showcase arena, attendance, largest MVC market
WSU: The most balanced success in all sports in the MVC
SIU: Perhaps the most nationally-respected MVC team over the past 10 years.

So who knows... It's good not to know, it shows how good the league has become and that we are not a one-horse league like the WCC or similar conferences are.

[WuGameClan]

CU. Name recognition, attendance, solid program every year, good rivalries, and big market.

[SB Shock]

Creighton. For two reasons.

1. There is no other team in the MVC that garners more attention to this point on what they accomplished over the years.

2. The coach is highly respected nationally.

It creates a perception of continuity of excellence.

Meanwhile you have SIU who been in a continious coaching turnover which leads to a perception of uncertainty about their program.

Of course WSU seems on the rise but needs to show the ability to do it year in and year out. Also, the big question is will Turgeon look at WSU as his destination like Dana has (it seems) at CU.

MSU - what have they did?

[WSUfan]

Creighton. For two reasons.

1. There is no other team in the MVC that garners more attention to this point on what they accomplished over the years.

2. The coach is highly respected nationally.

It creates a perception of continuity of excellence.

Meanwhile you have SIU who been in a continious coaching turnover which leads to a perception of uncertainty about their program.

Of course WSU seems on the rise but needs to show the ability to do it year in and year out. Also, the big question is will Turgeon look at WSU as his destination like Dana has (it seems) at CU.

MSU - what have they did?
Are you making fun of "Ozark speak"?:bash:

[dogdays]

Creighton ....
because of their facitlity, success and tv market....on a side note and not to derail this thread but to the shocker fan who said SIU has the perception of uncertainty because of the coaching turnover...thay may be somewhat true within the Valley but I dont think its true nationally..otherwise the continued recognition of numerous magazines and commentators would be not be what it is and has been the past several years...lastly ESPN choosing to show at least 8 games( nine if you count bb) doesnt say uncertainty to me...again, I think it may be a Valley perception but I dont think its really a blip nationally.

[BeeLine]

I think alot of you are only looking at Men's basketball in making your statements. Some thought was given to WSU's consecutive All-Sports trophies, but if those are of import, then you can't be to quick to minimize Ilinois State's and Missouri State's contributions given they dominated that trophy the previous 6-8 years. I also have to say the last school to make a serious run in any of the major D-1 sports has been Missouri State with a CWS appearence in Baseball and a Final 4 in WBB, but both of those now have a few years on them, and don't have much if any carryover effect.
Men's basketball then probabaly remains the benchmark, and really with their recent success in football added to a solid 6 year run in basketball, no one else is close to the national recognition of SIU at this time . Creighton has better facilities and a nice run as well, but not quite the level of SIU; WSU has great facilities & is coming on in basketball, but they need a few more years of really being good to enter the picture, as baseball just isn't enough to carry the title and their baseball has slipped some as their basketball is now rising.
I think Illinois State and Missouri State are important as they along with WSU have the most well rounded overall athletic programs, and Missouri States facilities in the major sports are going to be as good as the Valley has with the new JQH .
But as of this moment, right now, I have to go with the Saluki's, followed by WSU, Creighton, Missouri State hovering, and Illinois State with alot of potential if they can get their mens basketball back to the mid 90's form. I think Bradley has great name recognition nationally, but isn't doing enough in enough areas, and UNI probabaly deserves more respect than they get given a great run in basketball and a traditional top level football program to go with good facilities in both of those sports now.

[shocker3]

I think it is difficult to say which team means the "most." You could make strong arguments for at least 3 programs.

Creighton: Showcase arena, attendance, largest MVC market
WSU: The most balanced success in all sports in the MVC
SIU: Perhaps the most nationally-respected MVC team over the past 10 years.

So who knows... It's good not to know, it shows how good the league has become and that we are not a one-horse league like the WCC or similar conferences are.


Actually Wichita is the largest TV market in the Valley.

But I would agree that Creighton would be the biggest loss right now.

Basketball is the most important sport in the Valley and CU and SIU have done the most in that sport in recent years.

Creighton gets the nod in my book over SIU though because they do have Dana Altman (nationally recognized coach) and they do have the best attendance.

It is actually pretty amazing that SIU continues to win with constant coaching changes, crappy old facilities (not being mean, but realistic) and underwhelming attendance (they do have a great atmosphere at their games and that has to help). :valley:

[C0|db|00ded]

I personally think that WSU would be the least missed if they were to leave the Valley, restart D1 football, and jump to Conference USA. I think because they obviously lack so much tradition and national history in two of the three major college sports that they should hide their face in shame and leave for Conference USA immediately. Yes, I think that would be a very appropriate punishment. I think SIU-C and that lil' Jesuit school in Omaha, with a fabulous soccer team I might add, can handle things after we have left. :original:


T


...:cool:

[shockball]

These rational and reasonable thoughts do not belong in this forum.

[MSNSaluki]

I'm changing my vote from Creighton to Illinois State.

A world without the ISU Dance Squad, quite frankly, is not a world I want to live in.:redbirds:

[Jayfan]

I didn't think I would ever say this about anything in Valley Trash talk but... This thread belongs on the main basketball board.:valley: Currently I would say Creighton. soccer, basketball, (baseball and volleyball on the rise) However I think UNI is overlooked sometimes.

[Rasputin]

Actually Wichita is the largest TV market in the Valley.

But I would agree that Creighton would be the biggest loss right now.

Basketball is the most important sport in the Valley and CU and SIU have done the most in that sport in recent years.

Creighton gets the nod in my book over SIU though because they do have Dana Altman (nationally recognized coach) and they do have the best attendance.

It is actually pretty amazing that SIU continues to win with constant coaching changes, crappy old facilities (not being mean, but realistic) and underwhelming attendance (they do have a great atmosphere at their games and that has to help). :valley:

Actually, I was referring to largest market (city). Omaha's TV market size is skewed since Lincoln and Sioux City have their own TV markets, thus detracting from Omaha's capture area. Wichita's nearest competing TV market is 150 miles away.

http://ekb.dbstalk.com/TVMarkets/City%20Maps/Wichita.gif

http://ekb.dbstalk.com/TVMarkets/City%20Maps/Omaha.gif

[troutangler]

While Illinois State is struggling a little with their athletic program, their potential is awesome (same with MSU).


Struggling with our athletic program? As much as I dog Barry, our basketball team has recently been to the Sweet 16, the women's team has been to two Final Fours, and the baseball team has been to the CWS. I hardly think MSU's overall athletic programs are struggling.

[C0|db|00ded]

Actually, I was referring to largest market (city). Omaha's TV market size is skewed since Lincoln and Sioux City have their own TV markets, thus detracting from Omaha's capture area. Wichita's nearest competing TV market is 150 miles away.

http://ekb.dbstalk.com/TVMarkets/City%20Maps/Wichita.gif

http://ekb.dbstalk.com/TVMarkets/City%20Maps/Omaha.gif

Always gotta make excuses... sad :no: And as far as the city size is concerned, the differences are negligible. :doh:


T


...:cool:

[Rasputin]

So much for the civility...Yup, you keep telling yourself that 850,000 vs 570,000 is "negligible". :rolleyes:

TV Markets vary in size, it has little to do with actual city size. Wichita's TV market is larger because the city is essentially in the middle of nowhere and there are no nearby cities to steal catchment area.

Case in point:

Green Bay, Wi
Roanoke, VA
Portland, ME
Lexington, KY
Charleston, WV

All these cities have larger TV markets than Omaha, yet are at least half the size (city-wise)...What do they all have in common? They are all isolated, away from other TV markets, just like Wichita. It's not a slam, it's a fact. Nor is it "making excuses", as usual it is obvious you are trying to stir the pot.

[C0|db|00ded]

So much for the civility...Yup, you keep telling yourself that 850,000 vs 570,000 is "negligible". :rolleyes:

TV Markets vary in size, it has little to do with actual city size. Wichita's TV market is larger because the city is essentially in the middle of nowhere and there are no nearby cities to steal catchment area.

Case in point:

Green Bay, Wi
Roanoke, VA
Portland, ME
Lexington, KY
Charleston, WV

All these cities have larger TV markets than Omaha, yet are at least half the size (city-wise)...What do they all have in common? They are all isolated, away from other TV markets, just like Wichita. It's not a slam, it's a fact. Nor is it "making excuses", as usual it is obvious you are trying to stir the pot.

You are so easy, and so sadly insecure. But don't let me distract you from attempting to promote your alter-ego. :lol:


T


...:cool:

[Rasputin]

You are so easy, and so sadly insecure. But don't let me distract you from attempting to promote your alter-ego. :lol:


T


...:cool:

Hahaha...I'm insecure? Who is the one that always has to chime in whenever Omaha and Wichita are mentioned in the same sentence?

When was the last time you ever backed up any of your spew with actual facts? Nevermind, I almost made the mistake of believing you were even in the realm of rationality. :lol:

[Ictjay]

Ugh Cold, Sept. 17 Wichita Eagle, with regard to Wichita Business Leaders Trip to Richmond..."I'm tired of our inferiority complex" said Vera Bothner, Wichita marketing consultant.

[Bird]

I personally think that WSU would be the least missed if they were to leave the Valley, restart D1 football, and jump to Conference USA. I think because they obviously lack so much tradition and national history in two of the three major college sports that they should hide their face in shame and leave for Conference USA immediately. Yes, I think that would be a very appropriate punishment. I think SIU-C and that lil' Jesuit school in Omaha, with a fabulous soccer team I might add, can handle things after we have left.

That's true, the MVC would be just fine if WSU left, although we would miss the bowling success.

[WuGameClan]

That's true, the MVC would be just fine if WSU left, although we would miss the bowling success.

who would they send the ALL-SPORTS TROPHY to? I guess they could just mail it to Confrence USA.:shockers:

[BeeLine]

I think it's pretty obvious where the insecurity lies. Posters from various schools seemed unconcerned or threatened to name Universities other than their own in this thread , easily giving credit elsewhere. But predictably, when every post didn't name his Shock, Cold had to be the first to cry and whine about it. And he says others are insecure.
Jack to Tom moment; " You can't handle the truth ! "

[TrueBlueJay]

who would they send the ALL-SPORTS TROPHY to? I guess they could just mail it to Confrence USA.:shockers:

What is this All Sports Trophy?

[shockball]

I believe that the highest finish by a private school in the Missouri Valley Conference's All Sports Trophy competition was the Drake University Bulldogs.


:bulldogs:

[CUJays14]

Drake did finish sixth this year just ahead of UNI.

[Jayfan]

getting a little closer to trash talk. WSU sucks they are just jealous we dont need them the only time they get to look at rosenblatt anymore is once a year when they play Creighton.

[shockball]

getting a little closer to trash talk. WSU sucks they are just jealous we dont need them the only time they get to look at rosenblatt anymore is once a year when they play Creighton.

WSU has played at Rosenblatt more than Creighton.

[Jayfan]

WSU has played at Rosenblatt more than Creighton.


No your supposed to say, yeah well at least WSU has been to the sweet sixteen in the last year!

[Panthera Pardus]

I think we're all over looking the biggest reason for the Valley's success.

The St. Louis Billikens. :innocent:

[WSUfan]

I think we're all over looking the biggest reason for the Valley's success.

The St. Louis Billikens. :innocent:

Not Hooters? :innocent:

[Veritas]

Geez, this thread went south in a hurry.

MSU: I think your team has a great deal of potential--- to be better than they currently are in a number of sports. I like MSU-- changing the name, being the 2nd largest university in the state, location, decent size market in Springfield. I think you've got a good thing going, but it could be better. That's a compliment.

Omaha vs. Wichita: This makes me laugh as they are both nice sized midwestern cities with quite a few positive things going on in both towns. However, they are not a megalopolis. They are what they are and that is two similar size towns in two midwestern states, with similar demographics. For either town to try to "one-up" the other is funny to me.

I personally wish WSU would leave the Valley. I get pumped to see the Shox take on MSU in most sports, and sometimes Creighton in basketball. But the fact of the matter is that none of the teams can replace the Tulsa-WSU rivalry. WSU is located in the wrong spot. It's too bad they can't get a football team and replace Baylor in the Big XII. WSU is right in the middle of Big XII country and unfortunately does not fit well into any conference except for the geographic location of the Big XII.

Perhaps WKU would be a better fit for the Valley than the Shox. WSU is simply too far from most Valley schools for this fan.

[unipanther99]

I would really hate to see Drake go. Big TV market... Tons of history in the conference... Great on-campus facilities... Easy for all MVC teams to get to (major airport in the city, and Des Moines is on I-80 and I-35). The Bulldog athletic program is often overlooked for what it brings to the conference. The new Drake stadium will host the NCAA Track Championships, and hopefully they will win a bid to host NCAA basketball tournament games in the new Wells Fargo Arena soon. I know it won't happen, but I would love to see them become a scholarship football program again.

[WuGameClan]

What is this All Sports Trophy?

Dripping with sarcasm...but here you go anyway
LINK (http://webs.wichita.edu/gs/graphics/valleyallsportsrelease.pdf#search=%22all%20sports% 20trophy%20MVC%22)

[WuGameClan]

BTW...i voted for CU...:ermm: punks

[Omaha Cowboy]

Omaha vs. Wichita: This makes me laugh as they are both nice sized midwestern cities with quite a few positive things going on in both towns. However, they are not a megalopolis. They are what they are and that is two similar size towns in two midwestern states, with similar demographics. For either town to try to "one-up" the other is funny to me.

These cities' metro populations are not similarly sized..Unless you consider Omaha's metro, which is some 250,000 larger than Wichita, as similar..I don't. And these cities really have have a completely different feel..That is the real truth..Regardless of what 'the delusional' like clod will come in and twaddle on about. Spend 1 week in both cities then come back and tell me they're 'the same'..

True enough though, Omaha at 850,000 and Wichita at about 600,000 are not metropolitan 'megalopolises'..

..Ciao..LiO....Peace

[Omaha Cowboy]

I know this is the trash-talk board..But after some reflection, I apologize to all here for the demeanor contained in my last post..While I stand pat on my opinion..I was specifically out of line to insult Cold in that post..As an administrator on an Omaha booster forum myself, I find I have lost sight here (on ValleyTalk) to uphold a higher standard of contributions as a member..

So for what it's worth, and again, I do apologize..

This music video always makes me feel better:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EhLgFpmXEqI

..Ciao..LiO....Peace

[WSUbballer]

These cities' metro populations are not similarly sized..Unless you consider Omaha's metro, which is some 250,000 larger than Wichita, as similar..I don't. And these cities really have have a completely different feel..That is the real truth..Regardless of what 'the delusional' like clod will come in and twaddle on about. Spend 1 week in both cities then come back and tell me they're 'the same'..

True enough though, Omaha at 850,000 and Wichita at about 600,000 are not metropolitan 'megalopolises'..

..Ciao..LiO....Peace
Yes!! The Demographic nerds are back!!!:original: :original: :original: :original: :helpsmilie: :helpsmilie: :original: :original: :original:

[Bird]

No doubt, I thought I was having deja vu for a minute. This dumb Omaha v. Wichita issue was hashed out ad naseum a while ago, please spare everyone and don't get into it again. Each is a nice city in its own right, neither is Chicago or New York - end of discussion.

[WSUbballer]

No doubt, I thought I was having deja vu for a minute. This dumb Omaha v. Wichita issue was hashed out ad naseum a while ago, please spare everyone and don't get into it again. Each is a nice city in its own right, neither is Chicago or New York - end of discussion.
:clap:

[WSUfan]

I vote for Drake.
Why?
1. Oldest (current) member of the Valley.
2. Target when anyone says "Is the school prepared to step up and spend the money needed to improve the MVC?" (Note: Some DU fans even say this on www.drakenation.com)
3. Great people for fans (both of them :innocent: ).
4. Johnny Bright http://www.lib.drake.edu/heritage/bright/story/index.php http://www.coachwyatt.com/johnnybright.html http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johnny_Bright
5. Drake Relays
6. Only UNI and DU play Iowa and Iowa State every year in MBB.
7. Because I like Drake.

[C0|db|00ded]

Geez, this thread went south in a hurry.

MSU: I think your team has a great deal of potential--- to be better than they currently are in a number of sports. I like MSU-- changing the name, being the 2nd largest university in the state, location, decent size market in Springfield. I think you've got a good thing going, but it could be better. That's a compliment.

Omaha vs. Wichita: This makes me laugh as they are both nice sized midwestern cities with quite a few positive things going on in both towns. However, they are not a megalopolis. They are what they are and that is two similar size towns in two midwestern states, with similar demographics. For either town to try to "one-up" the other is funny to me.

I personally wish WSU would leave the Valley. I get pumped to see the Shox take on MSU in most sports, and sometimes Creighton in basketball. But the fact of the matter is that none of the teams can replace the Tulsa-WSU rivalry. WSU is located in the wrong spot. It's too bad they can't get a football team and replace Baylor in the Big XII. WSU is right in the middle of Big XII country and unfortunately does not fit well into any conference except for the geographic location of the Big XII.

Perhaps WKU would be a better fit for the Valley than the Shox. WSU is simply too far from most Valley schools for this fan.

Omaha vs. Wichita: This makes me laugh as they are both nice sized midwestern cities with quite a few positive things going on in both towns. However, they are not a megalopolis. They are what they are and that is two similar size towns in two midwestern states, with similar demographics. For either town to try to "one-up" the other is funny to me.

It's very funny to a lot of others as well. Unfortunately it isn't funny to a couple very seriously disturbed citizens of Omaha, and if you don't treat them with kid gloves they go off the deep end big-time. Anybody with half a brain knows that a town like Kansas City is small-market and a town like Omaha, Wichita, Tulsa, Little Rock, Des Moines, Colorado Springs, or Boulder, is a town not even worth mentioning... oops! :doh: I may have gone and done it again :innocent:, let's see if they scramble to respond yet again with another poll proving their ignorance and lack of perspective. Wait! I'll do it for them!

Money Magazine

10 Best Big Cities

Rank City Population

1 Colorado Springs, CO 369,800
2 Austin, TX 690,300
3 Mesa, AZ 442,800
4 Raleigh, NC 341,500
5 San Diego, CA 1,255,500
6 Virginia Beach, VA 438,400
7 Omaha, NE 414,500
8 Columbus, OH 730,700
9 Wichita, KS 354,900
10 New York, NY

Hold it in... hold it in... :shutup: :shutup: :shutup: :shutup: :fear: :lol:

It's a great day...


T


...:cool:

[Rasputin]

It's very funny to a lot of others as well. Unfortunately it isn't funny to a couple very seriously disturbed citizens of Omaha, and if you don't treat them with kid gloves they go off the deep end big-time. Anybody with half a brain knows that a town like Kansas City is small-market and a town like Omaha, Wichita, Tulsa, Little Rock, Des Moines, Colorado Springs, or Boulder, is a town not even worth mentioning... oops! :doh: I may have gone and done it again :innocent:, let's see if they scramble to respond yet again with another poll proving their ignorance and lack of perspective. Wait! I'll do it for them!

Money Magazine

10 Best Big Cities

Rank City Population

1 Colorado Springs, CO 369,800
2 Austin, TX 690,300
3 Mesa, AZ 442,800
4 Raleigh, NC 341,500
5 San Diego, CA 1,255,500
6 Virginia Beach, VA 438,400
7 Omaha, NE 414,500
8 Columbus, OH 730,700
9 Wichita, KS 354,900
10 New York, NY

Hold it in... hold it in... :shutup: :shutup: :shutup: :shutup: :fear: :lol:

It's a great day...


T


...:cool:


Hyprocrite alert! Remind us all again who decided to chime in and rekindle this tiresome debate? :naughty:

[NoPlaceLikeDome]

I think we all realize that Cedar Falls, Terre Haute, and Carbonale are the best Valley cities.:valley:

[WSUfan]

I think we all realize that Cedar Falls, Terre Haute, and Carbonale are the best Valley cities.:valley:
:lol:

[MoValley John]

Peoria!

[WSUfan]

Peoria!
:clap:

[MSNSaluki]

I think we all realize that Cedar Falls, Terre Haute, and Carbondale are the best Valley cities.:valley:

Our new Holiday Inn in Carbondale kicks ***!
The one in Cedar Falls is a dump, and the one in Terre Haute is simply okay.
So, we've got a leg up on you chumps:yes: .:panthers: :sycamores: :salukis:

[NoPlaceLikeDome]

Our new Holiday Inn in Carbondale kicks ***!
The one in Cedar Falls is a dump, and the one in Terre Haute is simply okay.
So, we've got a leg up on you chumps:yes: .:panthers: :sycamores: :salukis:

Them are fightin' words!

Yeah, well...Cedar Falls has an Applebee's, Blockbuster, AND a mall. Top that Carbondale.:Jumpy:

[wushockduke]

As long as Creighton has Altman, its Creighton.

[MSNSaluki]

Them are fightin' words!

Yeah, well...Cedar Falls has an Applebee's, Blockbuster, AND a mall. Top that Carbondale.:Jumpy:


Sorry it took me so long to respond ... I've been at our new Buffalo Wild Wings and Things or whatever the hell it's called!

[NoPlaceLikeDome]

Sorry it took me so long to respond ... I've been at our new Buffalo Wild Wings and Things or whatever the hell it's called!

Buffalo Wild Wings is the s**t!!! They don't have one in Waterloo/Cedar Falls, but they just build a second one down in Cedar Rapids and I love going there!

They should build one on the Hill, man would that be a huge hit!

[bcrawf]

I do think that we here at UNI are underappreciated. We have one of the smallest budgets around and are able to be pretty successful in 3 of 4 major Valley sports (Volleyball, Men's and Women's Basketball). And raising $26 Million for an arena in the Cedar Valley is nothing short of Amazing.

Baseball will always be a struggle for us. We have horrible dreadful facilities (though freeing up the Dome for Winter workouts will help) and it hurts to be the furthest North. Baseball in March in Waterloo/Cedar Falls is an experience. Rick Heller is a good coach (great hitting teacher) but until we can invest in an on-campus baseball facility we will be average at best.

[E-Villan]

My vote goes to Bradley because a Valley without Big Al's is not a Valley I want to be in..................................

[MSNSaluki]

Buffalo Wild Wings is the s**t!!! They don't have one in Waterloo/Cedar Falls, but they just build a second one down in Cedar Rapids and I love going there!

They should build one on the Hill, man would that be a huge hit!

SO, Carbondale is better than Waterloo/Cedar Falls ... I knew it!:lol: :salukis: :panthers: