Shocks beat Emporia St.

[RoyalShock]

87-62.

I know Wilson and Mekel were in double-figures. I think Thomasson and Couisnard were, too.

Ogirri did not play due to a mild muscle strain.

[wufan]

Karon Bradley was as well.

[WuGameClan]

87-62.

I know Wilson and Mekel were in double-figures. I think Thomasson and Couisnard were, too.

Ogirri did not play due to a mild muscle strain.

:fear: i hope this injury bung doesnt continue.

[Aargh]

The early look is that Thomasson replaces Miller in the post. Thomasson appears to be very aggressive with the ball in his hands and seemed to be on the free throw line all night.

Thomasson looks like he could cause foul problems for opponents frontcourt players.

Mekel can probably never live up to the hype he's had, but he's gonna give it one heck of a shot. The "standard stuff" applies. Great court vision, great passer, blah, blah, blah - like every PG who will ever sniff a D1 court is described. The surprising thing about Mekel is that at 6'3" and 195 his first 2 steps switching from dribbling to driving are simply explosive.

Mekel is going to leave some Valley defenders pulling their jocks up from around their ankles while he's shooting a 12' foot pullup or driving for a layup - and he's going to start doing that this year.

[JVShocker]

Well, Mekel looked good because it was ESU. That was his kind of game. ESU guards were playign aggressive beyond the 3 line all night. The only decent looks at 3 balls were off the dribble penetration and kick out. The pace of the game was slower than a crawl at times. Rge Shocks got running a few times, but only in spurts and would put 10 points up in 2-3 minutes spurts. Then the fouls, and missed FTs.

Shocks are a bit undersized without Paul Miller on defense, but I think we'll rebound better than we did last year. Post defense isn't all that bad. Phillip Thomasson won't be burned on D as bad as Miller was at times. He seems to be looking for rebounds which should help. All too often Paul would be caught flat footed. And PT may not have the fade away jumper Paul had, nor does he have the baseline spin, but unlike Paul he WILL dunk it when he's in the lane or just try and shoot it over the guy.

I think fans were most impressed with Thomasson and Mekel tonight.

[Aargh]

Well, Mekel looked good because it was ESU. That was his kind of game. ESU guards were playign aggressive beyond the 3 line all night.

:salukis: :salukis: :salukis: :salukis: :salukis:
:innocent: :innocent: :innocent: :innocent: :innocent:

[iSASO]

The Shocks were up by 33 at about the 12 minute mark and then called off the dogs.
A pretty good outcome even without the starting PG. Cooz twisted an ankle too and didn't play much in the 2nd half.

I believe Thomasson had 13 points, 7 boards and a block. Mekel had 14, including a few nifty passes. Wilson had 12 in the first half and finished with 17 to lead 5 players in double figures.

The game was never in doubt as the Shox ran out to a 7-0 lead.

[Aargh]

Box scores aren't up yet, but both the post-game radio and goshockers report Thomasson had 15. That's not the interesting stat, nor is the difference between 13 and 15 worth mentioning. The interesting stat is that Thomasson shot 15 FT's. That's enough FT's to foul one player out and get another into foul trouble.

If the FT shooting continues, WSU will have a way to negate the loss of Miller. Put the other team's best post player on the bench.

[SubGod22]

But we'll need to start hitting more than the 65% or so that we shot as a team from the line. Maybe I've been spoiled the past few years with the Shox at the line, but anything under 70% is unacceptable.

[DaShox]

Mekel: 14pts (5-6FG) (2-2 3FG),3rebs, 2assts, 2 t/o.
Thomasson: 15pts,7 rebs,1 asst, 1 blk, 0 t/o.

[shockerfan13]

But we'll need to start hitting more than the 65% or so that we shot as a team from the line. Maybe I've been spoiled the past few years with the Shox at the line, but anything under 70% is unacceptable.


2 things I don't worry about (especially just after one game) on a Turgeon coached team...rebounding and free throw shooting. Those will get better I am confident. If it becomes consistently bad...then I'll worry.

Box Score is up here:

http://www.goshockers.com/downloads1/12745.htm?ATCLID=669321&SPSID=61179&SPID=2851&DB_OEM_ID=7500

[WuDrWu]

The kid can play. He is so un-american in the way he plays its almost funny.


He is the textbook team player. EVERYONE gets a hand slap coming in or out of the game. Constant communication whether the ball is in play or not.

He is deceptively quick. He can use the opponents quickness against them. He "gets it". His shot is too slow and he will suffer some embarrassing blocks from time to time. He is a tremendous passer but is not used to the passing lane pressure he will see in D1. He will adapt. He is GREAT at getting to the bucket and if you work to get open, he will find you so be ready.

His D needs work but what freshman doesn't? I also believe he played almost no man to man before arriving in Wichita.

As a student of the game, he is a JOY to watch.

In his first game, he had 14. It isn't something to be expected, just a hint of what's to come on down the line.

[MikeKennedyRulz]

Articles from the Eagle on the game:

http://www.kansas.com/mld/kansas/sports/15907774.htm

http://www.kansas.com/mld/kansas/sports/columnists/jeffrey_parson/15904689.htm

http://www.kansas.com/mld/kansas/sports/columnists/bob_lutz/15907772.htm

Some quotes from Turg on Mekel that I think are pretty accurate from what I saw:

So why did Turgeon spend much of the night screaming at Mekel?

"A lot of our defensive breakdowns in the second half, I thought, were because of Gal," Turgeon said. "You hate to blame one guy, but we were guarding their ball screens and handoffs a certain way and he kept messing them up. So, yeah, he's a full-time job."

"I'm trying to figure out what (Gal) is," Turgeon said. "I think he's got two positions -- I think he's a 1 and a 2. In our system, I think he might be a better 2-guard because the game is so much faster."

"I've probably been on Gal more than anyone because, one, I don't think he understands half the things I said to him because of the language barrier," Turgeon said. "So a lot of times I'm yelling on deaf ears. It's been a little frustrating."

But Turgeon sees the obvious, that Mekel has a chance to be better than good.

"Oh, yeah, he can do some things," Turgeon said.

Here is what Gal had to say about the game, Koch, and the crowd:

"This is really different from the European game," Mekel said. "Physically, it's more a one-on-one game, more an individual game. In Europe it's more tactics, more pick-and-rolls, more team play."

That didn't stop him from pumping his fists and screaming as he made his way back to play defense.

"The crowd here was unbelievable for me," Mekel said. "I played in front of 7,000 some in Europe and that's pretty good. But Coach Turgeon has always told me that everybody here is crazy about basketball. I'm glad I saw this tonight. We're all playing for the crowd and the crowd gives us energy."


Players: I thought Thomasson looked good and I think he and Wilson will be a load down low for most teams. The backcourt is going to be deep with Braeuer, Bradley, Ogirri, Preadom, and Mekel all seeing time. The frontcourt is going to be good as long as Wilson, Thomasson, and Martin stay healthy. Ryan Bradley is not ready, the Freshman big guys more than likely will not be able to contribute a whole lot. PJ was outstanding on defense as usual and hit 3 threes. I know Young from SIU is outstanding defensively, but it would not surprise me to see PJ make a run at defensive POY in the league this year.

The game: As far as the whole team goes, it was a tale of two halves. The first half the team looked really good defensively and played intense on the defensive end, while the offense sputtered at times and looked stale (as is to be expected to start the season). The second half the team looked amazing at times offensively, but lacked defensive intensity (which is probably a product of being up by 30+). Overall, I am more excited about the potential for this team than I was before the game. The rebounding will be there again this year, and could be even better with Thomasson. I was impressed.

Injuries and stuff: Sean Ogirri was in street clothes with a bruised hip and knee suffered in a fall in practice. Turgeon said the goal is to have him ready by the first game on the 11th. JT Durley is out with a torn MCL.

:valley: :shockers: :valley: :shockers: :valley: :shockers:

[SubGod22]

If Gal enjoyed the crowd last night I want to hear what he thinks when we're actually loud

[WuDrWu]

No kidding. That was a docile group last evening. The one thing about the practice games is that the fans generally don't want to bury the opponent.

I know I felt that way. Now if we get, say SIU down 32, go ahead and make it 62. Just being hypothectical there Dawgie fans. :innocent:


Hopefully the Marketplace will improve and the word will get around about the availability of last minute student section tickets so full will really mean something. I figured maybe 250 or so no shows last night.

[underdawg2]

The early look is that Thomasson replaces Miller in the post. Thomasson appears to be very aggressive with the ball in his hands and seemed to be on the free throw line all night.

Thomasson looks like he could cause foul problems for opponents frontcourt players.

Mekel can probably never live up to the hype he's had, but he's gonna give it one heck of a shot. The "standard stuff" applies. Great court vision, great passer, blah, blah, blah - like every PG who will ever sniff a D1 court is described. The surprising thing about Mekel is that at 6'3" and 195 his first 2 steps switching from dribbling to driving are simply explosive.

Mekel is going to leave some Valley defenders pulling their jocks up from around their ankles while he's shooting a 12' foot pullup or driving for a layup - and he's going to start doing that this year.


MosesMekelMoses
:lol:

[Ictjay]

Thomasson will have his hands full this year. This will be a guard oriented team. Shocks need to get a "up-tempo" game going with their talent at the 1-2. If they play a half-court game, they will get murdered inside. Perimeter players looked good.

[MikeKennedyRulz]

Thomasson will have his hands full this year. This will be a guard oriented team. Shocks need to get a "up-tempo" game going with their talent at the 1-2. If they play a half-court game, they will get murdered inside. Perimeter players looked good.

Out of curiosity, what about Thomasson and or Wilson leads you to believe they will get murdered inside? And, other than CU with one really good inside presence, what frontcourt will murder Thomasson, Wilson, Martin?

[WuDrWu]

Thomasson will have his hands full this year. This will be a guard oriented team. Shocks need to get a "up-tempo" game going with their talent at the 1-2. If they play a half-court game, they will get murdered inside. Perimeter players looked good.


Murdered by whom in the Valley?

I agree that the elite of the NCAA is going to give the Shocks fits inside, but which teams have the Shocker bigs at a "murdering" disadvantage?

[wufan]

They will have a hard time with UNI. Creighton and probably SIU currently have better front courts than WSU. We will be good enough, but we will need to run or develop a fourth inside player with some size.

[Ictjay]

Thomasson is very active, the 5 doesn't look to be his best defensive postion. He was getting backed down by Desir. I just see him being foul prone guarding the other teams 5. He seems more suited as a 4. My point was, with the Shocks shooters and athletes at the 1-2 and 3, and lack of Millers inside points, I think a up tempo game would suit them better and keep them out of foul trouble underneath.

[Chairman of the Boards]

Size can be a little overated at times... give me decent size and a few great shooters and I'll take on a team of giants anyday. If the past couple of years is any indication, I don't think WSU will have a problem with lack of size... they have a few players that can play D, rebound and shoot. Paul Miller was a very good inside player, but I don't think they'll miss a beat without him. :valley:

[MikeKennedyRulz]

Thomasson is very active, the 5 doesn't look to be his best defensive postion. He was getting backed down by Desir. I just see him being foul prone guarding the other teams 5. He seems more suited as a 4. My point was, with the Shocks shooters and athletes at the 1-2 and 3, and lack of Millers inside points, I think a up tempo game would suit them better and keep them out of foul trouble underneath.

I think you make some decent points, but, I don't think it will be that difficult for Thomasson, Martin, and Wilson to cover 13 points a game inside between the three of them. What Thomasson gives up in offensive moves, he will more than make up for by being a better rebounder and shot-blocker than Miller. Also, he is a ton more athletic than Miller and it will not be as easy for the bigs in the valley to defend him. Don't get me wrong, Miller was a huge loss for the Shox, but nobody is going to murder the Shox inside this year.

[shockerfan13]

Thomasson is very active, the 5 doesn't look to be his best defensive postion. He was getting backed down by Desir. I just see him being foul prone guarding the other teams 5. He seems more suited as a 4. My point was, with the Shocks shooters and athletes at the 1-2 and 3, and lack of Millers inside points, I think a up tempo game would suit them better and keep them out of foul trouble underneath.


Your assessment is reasonable and I somewhat agree. There's alot of time left and players are having to learn some new positions...I have faith that we will be rollin just fine by conference and we will MORE than make up for our lack of post presence. I don't think we will have ANY problem replacing Miller's points inside..I think we have guys that can finish around the basket..etc. The post defense is where most of the improvement needs to happen and with Turgeon being a defensive minded coach I am confident it will improve.

Oh and Thomasson will single handedly get some valley bigs in foul trouble...he's just too quick, active and aggressive not to draw fouls in the Valley. If you can't match up with them...get them out of the game :P

[Ictjay]

: Your assessment is reasonable and I somewhat agree. There's alot of time left and players are having to learn some new positions...I have faith that we will be rollin just fine by conference and we will MORE than make up for our lack of post presence. I don't think we will have ANY problem replacing Miller's points inside..I think we have guys that can finish around the basket..etc. The post defense is where most of the improvement needs to happen and with Turgeon being a defensive minded coach I am confident it will improve.

Oh and Thomasson will single handedly get some valley bigs in foul trouble...he's just too quick, active and aggressive not to draw fouls in the Valley. If you can't match up with them...get them out of the game :P
:original: Agreed

[WuDrWu]

Thomasson is very active, the 5 doesn't look to be his best defensive postion. He was getting backed down by Desir. I just see him being foul prone guarding the other teams 5. He seems more suited as a 4. My point was, with the Shocks shooters and athletes at the 1-2 and 3, and lack of Millers inside points, I think a up tempo game would suit them better and keep them out of foul trouble underneath.


More than solid points.

[blueblood]

I don't think I have ever seen a thread like this. What's going on?

[Tasmanian Devil]

Creighton and probably SIU currently have better front courts than WSU.

Sorry, but no way SIU has a better front court. Creighton has Tolliver so that may give them the edge, but I'll have to see their newcomers before I say anything about them.

[MikeKennedyRulz]

Sorry, but no way SIU has a better front court. Creighton has Tolliver so that may give them the edge, but I'll have to see their newcomers before I say anything about them.

I agree with Taz. I would take Thomasson, Martin, and Wilson over Shaw and Falker.

[SubGod22]

I was fine with the comment about CU because of Tolliver, but the SIU one made me laugh. No, they don't suck, but Falker isn't any bigger than Thomasson. Unless I'm just out of my mind anyway.

[Chairman of the Boards]

WSUTALK.NET :valley: :lol:

[iSASO]

Also keep in mind that WSU didn't show much of what they plan to do this year (read up-tempo play).

[SubGod22]

The thing that gets me is Turgeon has always wanted to go with more up-tempo play. The problem is most team in the Valley do everything they can to keep us from doing that. MSU being an exception.

[shockerfan13]

I don't think I have ever seen a thread like this. What's going on?


I'm man enough to agree with points when they are pretty well said and thought out...don't get me wrong though:

I still hate Creighton :innocent: :grin:

[wufan]

SIU was "currently and probably." I think Falker gives us more problems this year with his defense. Not having the PM fade away from 12 makes Falker much more effective inside. PT and KW may have thier way with him, but if we played the Salukis this week I would have to give them the edge on the interior. I like what we have, just not yet convinced that we have the size to dominate the Valley this year.

[RoyalShock]

Hasn't Turgeon said he plans to play more zone this year?

With improved rebounding and athleticism in the post (Thomasson > Miller, in this regard) the Shocks can afford to play more zone to help stay out of foul trouble, should the situation demand it.

[shockerfan13]

SIU was "currently and probably." I think Falker gives us more problems this year with his defense. Not having the PM fade away from 12 makes Falker much more effective inside. PT and KW may have thier way with him, but if we played the Salukis this week I would have to give them the edge on the interior. I like what we have, just not yet convinced that we have the size to dominate the Valley this year.


Nice thing is you don't really HAVE to have size to do well in the Valley. Athleticism and players that can play "D" yes...but size..no. Post defense is a worry, but if our post players start playing good defense (which I think they will given time) then I'm not worried about our post against just about anyone in the Valley. There will be matchup problems (UNI..etc), but every team faces those types of things. But overall if our post defense improves, which it HAS to for WSU to be successful, then we will be just fine and better than last year IMO.

[SubGod22]

Hasn't Turgeon said he plans to play more zone this year?

With improved rebounding and athleticism in the post (Thomasson > Miller, in this regard) the Shocks can afford to play more zone to help stay out of foul trouble, should the situation demand it.

Yes he has. A necessary evil is the zone this year. Although the 3-2 we used to play with Howard at the top was nice. With the gaurds we have, I think we could put a lot of pressure on some teams while is a zone and create a lot of steals out of it.

During the ESU game the thought crossed my mind about having someone as long as Arbry at the point in that zone....

[Ictjay]

Yes he has. A necessary evil is the zone this year. Although the 3-2 we used to play with Howard at the top was nice. With the gaurds we have, I think we could put a lot of pressure on some teams while is a zone and create a lot of steals out of it.

During the ESU game the thought crossed my mind about having someone as long as Arbry at the point in that zone....


Before you know it WSU will be fullcourt pressing!!!!

[SubGod22]

I'd be all for the full court press. And he has hinted to doing that a few times...

[rjl]

I'd be all for the full court press. And he has hinted to doing that a few times...

With the depth we have at the 1 and 2, we'd be fools not to.