Average D1 Vice Better D2

[Ace Dad]

There have been several games this year where D2 teams have played competitively with D1 programs. Happens each year. Did it seem the gap was narrowed some this year or is this a typical year?

[underdawg2]

There have been several games this year where D2 teams have played competitively with D1 programs. Happens each year. Did it seem the gap was narrowed some this year or is this a typical year?


As far as Quincy the team we beat by 6 is concerned, I think there are several factors. Quincy is a good d-2 team that won 22 games last season and went to the National tourney. Most all there starters return. Also d-2 teams look at these exhibition games differently than there d-1 opponents--Quincy played starters the whole game.

SIU had all-conference starter Tatum (15 ppg) out for the game and 3 other
reserves sitting (Foster, one game suspention, Bone and Cornelius out with injuries). So SIU could not generate any continuity.

But perhaps just as the gap between so-called "power" teams and mids has narrowed--so has that between d-1 and d-2 too.


:original:

[Phantom]

I think the gap has been closed a bit between some of the top DII teams and us. The team that beat Drake for example, (correct me if Im wrong here...) was the DII national champion last year and is picked 1st again this year. Drake was without some starters, but thats still a good game to play and it came down to the last second. Im sure DU learned alot in that game.

Southern Indiana is also a quality team that played right with Evansville and took them down to the wire. The good thing is that they are "only" exhibitions for us...but they are still games from which we can gain experience, and learn alot. Thats valuable. In many ways, playing exhibitons against top DII teams that will give you a challenge is better than playing super-high RPI D-I teams that you will obliterate. For example, Im sure UE got more out of a tight game with DII Southern Indiana than they would have if they wouldve blown out a team like Prairie View A&M.

Just my 2 cents.

[Dawg_tired]

I thought Winona State looked like a lower level MAC team. THey definitely had some players who could have played in the Valley. The kid who transferred from Creighton was pretty frikkin good. The difference between a very good D2 team and an average D1 team probably isn't that great. A little more quickness, a little more size, but you don't need to be big or quick to hit the three. It's true we were without our starting point guard, but I don't think that's the reason we lost the game. The freshman played really well. The reason we lost the game is that our defense sucked. We let the short slow guys have lots of open looks and it was a very well coached team.

[Mc Bulldog]

Why won't Bradley play Illinois Wesleyan .. and they're DII I believe? :fear: :doh: :grin:

[Drakey]

There are just a lot more good basketball players than there were 20 years ago. There are 50 kids at my kids high school who would have been Varsity players 20 years ago. Lots of AAU teams, lots of camps. Lots more kids who can play available for D2 or D3. I think a lot of D3 players now would have been reserves on D1 teams 20 years ago.

[MSNSaluki]

The biggest reason you are seeing so many close exhibition games is the fact that these games now feature TWO TEAMS versus five years ago when you'd grab a traveling team or some collection of stiffs for a tune up. The NCAA rule change has made exhibitions interesting again.

While they are D2 and D3 teams, they are running plays, working on defense and looking at these games as opportunities to shock the world versus the old days, when it was take the first shot available and defense was optional.

[Ace Dad]

Drakey, I agree. In fact, a couple of D1 assistants have told me that one of the hardest parts of the job is separating the best among a very talented group of second tier D1 potential players. The top tier or "ready for the NBA now" players are easier to identify normally by their size and skill level. It is the 6'2-6'7 guards and wings where it is tough to get a D1 scholly because there are so many good ones.

Also, there are some D2 squads with D1 former or D1 caliber players and you sometimes do not know until doing research on the kid or reading the program. There are many players that D1 programs want to offer, but cannot because of the kids SAT/ACT and GPA, forcing the player into the JUCO's or NAIA. Two years later these players pop-up on a D2 squad and everyone wonders where they were earlier in the recruting process. I think Bowie State (D2) started five D1 "bouncebacks" a couple of years ago. Imagine being a D2 coach with five starters who played a year or two of D1 then transferred to your school.

Players transfer to a lower level in a heart beat. My youngest son has four teammates (high school or AAU) who went D1. Following is the result:

Player 1 (6'4 PG) Morehead State: Now at a JUCO

Player 2 (6'5 PG) Loyola Maryland: Departed the program.

Player 3 (6'3" Wing) College of Charleston: Transferred to D2 school.

Player 4 (6'2" PG) Coppin State: Transferred to NAIA school.

I told my 6'2" younger son who is in his last year of JUCO ball that guards his size are dime a dozen and he would have to do something very special to get a coach's eye. There are hundreds of pretty good 6'1 and 6'2 players in high school, juco, and the foreign junior leagues and D1 coaches get to pick the "prettiest puppy" of the litter. Not sure if we understand how difficult it is for a player to make the leap from high school to D1. It is hard.

[eddantes]

The rules are different for Division II. There is no doubt that high level D-II is frequently better than "mid major" D-1. The high level D-II teams have a ton of transfers from Mid to High level D1 programs. It wouldn't have been a huge shocker for USI to have beaten us. I'm just glad we were able to pull it out!!!

[outpost]

As a WSU fan, based on the past couple of years, I anticipated a better game for the Shockers from Emporia State. Two years ago they had us down with 1½ minutes left. I think we ended up hitting 8 free throws from that point on and won by about 7.

Last year, they gave us a pretty good game for about a half, and we pulled away in the second half.

This year they were not competitive at all. With about 10 minutes to go we lost our intensity and they cut a 33 point lead to 17. But were never a threat.

We'll see what happens tomorrow night with Fort Hays State.

[Sheev]

The rules are different for Division II. There is no doubt that high level D-II is frequently better than "mid major" D-1. The high level D-II teams have a ton of transfers from Mid to High level D1 programs. It wouldn't have been a huge shocker for USI to have beaten us. I'm just glad we were able to pull it out!!!

I don't know about all of that. I think that the really good D2 teams can compete with mid-majors and some bottom teams in BCS conferences on a given day, but I don't think that they are better quality than say the average SWAC team over the long haul.

[user1]

Why won't Bradley play Illinois Wesleyan .. and they're DII I believe? :fear: :doh: :grin:

Nope, Illinois Wesleyan is a D-III team, and actually Bradley DID schedule a game against them several years ago.
It was a blowout, though. Bradley has stuck mostly with the D-II's in exhibitions since.

[thetruthhurts]

Bradley beat IWU 81-63 in a regular season game in 1993.

[rjl]

It's got to be weird to be a DII player, where the first or second game of the year is your "Super Bowl."

It's just a warmup game and a chance to "try things out" for the D-1, it's the cornerstone of the whole damn season for the D-II.

[thetruthhurts]

It's got to be weird to be a DII player, where the first or second game of the year is your "Super Bowl."

It's just a warmup game and a chance to "try things out" for the D-1, it's the cornerstone of the whole damn season for the D-II.

Let's not get an inflated ego over or DI selves. Remember, these games are exhibitions for these teams too. Why do we think the DII teams, especially the really good ones, aren't "trying things out" as well?

Does the game mean more to the DII's than the DI's? Probably. But it isn't their Super Bowl. They have their own rivalries, league games, and postseason play to prepare for. Any coach worth his salt is going to be using the DI exhibitions as a chance to prepare for the season, not do some David v. Goliath thing.

[RoyalShock]

If I'm a D2 coach with some D1 exhibition opponents, I'm going to try everything I can to make my team competitive just to give them confidence.

[Ace Dad]

I fully concur with the "Superbowl" comment. The vast majority of D2 players wanted to play D1 and did not get a chance. In fact, many feel inferior because D1 schools came "alookin", asked for tape, but never pursued. So, the game against the D1 opponent is the way to guage one's ability against the player who got the chance. I think D2 coaches play to win because they want their players to have the confidence that comes from knocking off a D1 team.

Most younger coaches in D2 think about getting to the next level. What better resume to have then three or four victories over D1 opponents?

[MikeKennedyRulz]

I agree that D2 players and coaches relish the opportunity to knock off the "big boys". Especially when they are teams that are close in proximity (a la Emporia St and Fort Hays St.) for WSU. I know there are at least a couple of kids on these teams (Jordan Fithian - ESU and Tim Peintner - FHSU) that were recruited lightly by WSU and they would love nothing more than to show the Shox what they missed out on.

[SATX Shocker]

My personal opinion, Ace Dad, is that the gap has been narrowing for at least the last 15-20 years, has probably narrowed again this year, and will continue to narrow in the future until (1) the popularity of basketball abates, or (2) there are more outlets – whether those are professional or collegiate. Supply and demand, it appears.

I played D3, had friends who played D1, D2 and NAIA, and played my share of pickup ball and scrimmages with players from different levels. My opinion/conclusion is the same as yours – outside of the 4/5 positions, it is extremely hard to distinguish the talent. In college, I saw anywhere from 1 to 4 guys per team that could have played at the low-major D1 level or higher. In talking to guys who’ve played at various levels in the last 3-4 years, it seems like it’s even more competitive.

Factor in the dynamics of the D1 teams still trying to figure out roles early in the season, the relaxation of the “nothing to lose” situation the D2 teams enjoy, and the fact that there’s a ton of guys that can hit from 19’9”, whether they’re D1 or high school talent… the close games don’t surprise me at all.

[C0|db|00ded]

You definitely can't let these D2 teams get comfortable shooting around the arc. Anybody can beat anybody if their shooters get hot from three. They aren't expecting to beat us under the basket, they are expecting to beat us with a hot-shooting exhibition. That's what makes SIU-C's loss in Anchorage so weird because they usually shut down the perimeter action pretty well...


T


...:cool:

[BearsCountry]

I know Quincy's big center was recruited by Nebraska and some of the Valley schools. But D2 gets alot of talent that cant make it academically at a D1 school, that is what shrinks the talent base bc the high school recruits dont do it.