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uni27
11-05-2006, 06:35 PM
Last season's NCAA men's basketball tournament represented an unprecedented achievement for the sport's underdogs. The Missouri Valley Conference sent as many teams to the tournament as the traditionally powerful ACC (four), and George Mason of the Colonial Athletic Association knocked off three of the game's pillars en route to the Final Four.

As the new season opens this week and many are wondering who will be this year's embraceable fairy tale, the deposed powerhouses are working to make sure it won't happen again. Last month, before his team or any other had played so much as an exhibition, Maryland Coach Gary Williams declared that at least six ACC schools deserve to make this season's NCAA tournament, the first step in a public relations campaign hatched at last spring's coaches meeting.

"We need to walk out of here and send a message," Virginia Tech Coach Seth Greenberg said. "Everyone is taking shots at the ACC. We're like the Yankees, either you love them or hate them. No one is neutral."

Indeed, this season's primary story line appears to be how the power conferences, namely the ACC, will respond to the unprecedented success of smaller leagues in the NCAA tournament.

The MVC, an emerging 10-team league spread over six Midwestern states, was accused by some coaches last year of using shrewd scheduling practices to outsmart the Rating Percentage Index, a mathematical measurement of a team's strength used by the tournament selection committee to help determine who receives the 34 at-large berths. One ACC coach recently called last season the "Revenge of the Nerds."

I kind of like that," Missouri State Coach Barry Hinson said. "What's great about 'Revenge of the Nerds' is that the nerds ended up winning. Last thing I know, they left with all the hot chicks."

During last month's ACC media day, several ACC coaches, while careful not to publicly disparage any of the smaller schools that made the 65-team field, repeated what seemed like political talking points.

Between 1980 and 2005, only six ACC schools that finished .500 or better in the conference did not make the NCAA tournament. Last season, two schools -- Florida State and Maryland -- finished .500 or better in the ACC and were excluded.

Air Force, which made the tournament out of the Mountain West Conference, was given credit for beating Georgia Tech, three ACC coaches said, while Maryland's three victories against the Yellow Jackets were viewed by the selection committee as insignificant.

They also repeated that it is more important than ever for the league office and media to promote a league that they feel has no bad teams.

"You can't worry about people laughing at you," Williams said. "That's why, when I say we should get six or seven teams in, what does that cost me? Nothing. People said, 'He's crazy.' Well, people have said that before, so it doesn't matter. You've got to put that idea out there because it sets the [bar]. One thing we know we can do is be more aggressive in publicizing the conference."

Others, however, believe performance should outweigh posturing. The ACC, whose teams will make a league-record 157 appearances on national television, has "every promotional machine cranking up," CAA Commissioner Tom Yeager said. "Dick Vitale, Digger Phelps and all the national media guys aren't coming to the Missouri Valley and the Richmond Coliseum. What more do you want? We pointed to what we did and not some PR, political campaign to make your candidate look good. They can't grasp the fact that something else did not work out."

The ACC is not the only conference reacting to the success of the MVC.

The Atlantic 10 is working toward developing a scheduling philosophy that would encourage teams with postseason aspirations to schedule difficult opponents. Schools expected to be at the bottom of the standings, however, could schedule easier opponents.

It is a philosophy based on the strategy of the MVC, which had six schools ranked in the top 40 of the RPI last season. The MVC "implemented a thoughtful strategy," said Dayton Athletic Director Ted Kissell, who chairs the committee addressing the Atlantic 10's scheduling issues. "If they get fewer teams in this year, that doesn't make their strategy less relevant. The lesson is strategic, not how many teams you get in, which depends on so many variables."Virginia Tech and Maryland have scheduled differently this season in hopes of improving their RPI. Greenberg scheduled three neutral court games because they count more than home games in the formula. Williams said he scheduled teams such as Winthrop and Fordham at home instead of schools with RPIs worse than 200.

Williams said he did not consider scheduling a MVC school. He also called the claim that virtually all MVC schools had called ACC schools looking to schedule game more "urban legend."

Is that not awesome?" Hinson said, laughing. "My gosh. That's so funny. I'll provide a record of our phone logs if you need them. That's absolutely ridiculous."

Florida State was left out of the NCAA tournament despite a 9-7 ACC record largely because of a weak nonconference schedule. Seminoles Coach Leonard Hamilton said scheduling is particularly challenging because one does not know who will be viewed as a strong opponent by the end of the season.

"You're asking me a question that I can't give you an answer to because the people who are now tweaking the formula are giving you information that they really can't give an answer to," Hamilton said.

"They are going on the offensive? Who are they playing?" Yeager said of some ACC teams' scheduling. "It's like putting bad gas in your car. You may have a Ferrari, but if you start putting bad gas in it, then it starts sputtering and coughing and maybe it's parked on the side of the road. And the little Yugo zooms by you."

Among some coaches, there remains a sense of mystery with the RPI, which considers a school's winning percentage, the opponents' winning percentages and opponents' opponents' winning percentage. The formula was changed starting in the 2004-05 season to give more weight to road victories.

Williams said an NCAA official told the coaches at the spring meetings that the RPI was "basically screwed up last year. Who knows what the RPI will be this year? What goes into it? What are the most important factors?"

Doug Elgin, the commissioner of the MVC, said that is a "cop out." Hinson added that there is no secret code to cracking the RPI, saying, "This is not 'National Treasure' with Nicholas Cage."

In the 100th season of the MVC, nearly 80 percent of the starters are back. And three schools -- Creighton, Wichita State and Southern Illinois -- are expected to challenge for the top 25 all season. Whether that means the MVC can get as many berths as the ACC for the second straight season remains to be seen.

During the ACC's media gathering last month, Williams repeatedly talked about the need to expand the tournament because there are more teams around the country capable of deep runs. When someone finally interrupted to ask how much the field should be expanded, Williams flashed a smile and said, "Just enough so we get in."

shockerfan13
11-05-2006, 07:03 PM
LOL Gotta love Barry!!

I kind of like that," Missouri State Coach Barry Hinson said. "What's great about 'Revenge of the Nerds' is that the nerds ended up winning. Last thing I know, they left with all the hot chicks."

Williams said he did not consider scheduling a MVC school. He also called the claim that virtually all MVC schools had called ACC schools looking to schedule game more "urban legend."

Is that not awesome?" Hinson said, laughing. "My gosh. That's so funny. I'll provide a record of our phone logs if you need them. That's absolutely ridiculous."

Fraydog
11-05-2006, 07:43 PM
Could you post a link please?

goshoxgo
11-05-2006, 07:51 PM
Last season's NCAA men's basketball tournament represented an unprecedented achievement for the sport's underdogs. The Missouri Valley Conference sent as many teams to the tournament as the traditionally powerful ACC (four), and George Mason of the Colonial Athletic Association knocked off three of the game's pillars en route to the Final Four.

As the new season opens this week and many are wondering who will be this year's embraceable fairy tale, the deposed powerhouses are working to make sure it won't happen again. Last month, before his team or any other had played so much as an exhibition, Maryland Coach Gary Williams declared that at least six ACC schools deserve to make this season's NCAA tournament, the first step in a public relations campaign hatched at last spring's coaches meeting.

"We need to walk out of here and send a message," Virginia Tech Coach Seth Greenberg said. "Everyone is taking shots at the ACC. We're like the Yankees, either you love them or hate them. No one is neutral."

Indeed, this season's primary story line appears to be how the power conferences, namely the ACC, will respond to the unprecedented success of smaller leagues in the NCAA tournament.

The MVC, an emerging 10-team league spread over six Midwestern states, was accused by some coaches last year of using shrewd scheduling practices to outsmart the Rating Percentage Index, a mathematical measurement of a team's strength used by the tournament selection committee to help determine who receives the 34 at-large berths. One ACC coach recently called last season the "Revenge of the Nerds."

I kind of like that," Missouri State Coach Barry Hinson said. "What's great about 'Revenge of the Nerds' is that the nerds ended up winning. Last thing I know, they left with all the hot chicks."

During last month's ACC media day, several ACC coaches, while careful not to publicly disparage any of the smaller schools that made the 65-team field, repeated what seemed like political talking points.

Between 1980 and 2005, only six ACC schools that finished .500 or better in the conference did not make the NCAA tournament. Last season, two schools -- Florida State and Maryland -- finished .500 or better in the ACC and were excluded.

Air Force, which made the tournament out of the Mountain West Conference, was given credit for beating Georgia Tech, three ACC coaches said, while Maryland's three victories against the Yellow Jackets were viewed by the selection committee as insignificant.

They also repeated that it is more important than ever for the league office and media to promote a league that they feel has no bad teams.

"You can't worry about people laughing at you," Williams said. "That's why, when I say we should get six or seven teams in, what does that cost me? Nothing. People said, 'He's crazy.' Well, people have said that before, so it doesn't matter. You've got to put that idea out there because it sets the [bar]. One thing we know we can do is be more aggressive in publicizing the conference."

Others, however, believe performance should outweigh posturing. The ACC, whose teams will make a league-record 157 appearances on national television, has "every promotional machine cranking up," CAA Commissioner Tom Yeager said. "Dick Vitale, Digger Phelps and all the national media guys aren't coming to the Missouri Valley and the Richmond Coliseum. What more do you want? We pointed to what we did and not some PR, political campaign to make your candidate look good. They can't grasp the fact that something else did not work out."

The ACC is not the only conference reacting to the success of the MVC.

The Atlantic 10 is working toward developing a scheduling philosophy that would encourage teams with postseason aspirations to schedule difficult opponents. Schools expected to be at the bottom of the standings, however, could schedule easier opponents.

It is a philosophy based on the strategy of the MVC, which had six schools ranked in the top 40 of the RPI last season. The MVC "implemented a thoughtful strategy," said Dayton Athletic Director Ted Kissell, who chairs the committee addressing the Atlantic 10's scheduling issues. "If they get fewer teams in this year, that doesn't make their strategy less relevant. The lesson is strategic, not how many teams you get in, which depends on so many variables."Virginia Tech and Maryland have scheduled differently this season in hopes of improving their RPI. Greenberg scheduled three neutral court games because they count more than home games in the formula. Williams said he scheduled teams such as Winthrop and Fordham at home instead of schools with RPIs worse than 200.

Williams said he did not consider scheduling a MVC school. He also called the claim that virtually all MVC schools had called ACC schools looking to schedule game more "urban legend."

Is that not awesome?" Hinson said, laughing. "My gosh. That's so funny. I'll provide a record of our phone logs if you need them. That's absolutely ridiculous."

Florida State was left out of the NCAA tournament despite a 9-7 ACC record largely because of a weak nonconference schedule. Seminoles Coach Leonard Hamilton said scheduling is particularly challenging because one does not know who will be viewed as a strong opponent by the end of the season.

"You're asking me a question that I can't give you an answer to because the people who are now tweaking the formula are giving you information that they really can't give an answer to," Hamilton said.

"They are going on the offensive? Who are they playing?" Yeager said of some ACC teams' scheduling. "It's like putting bad gas in your car. You may have a Ferrari, but if you start putting bad gas in it, then it starts sputtering and coughing and maybe it's parked on the side of the road. And the little Yugo zooms by you."

Among some coaches, there remains a sense of mystery with the RPI, which considers a school's winning percentage, the opponents' winning percentages and opponents' opponents' winning percentage. The formula was changed starting in the 2004-05 season to give more weight to road victories.

Williams said an NCAA official told the coaches at the spring meetings that the RPI was "basically screwed up last year. Who knows what the RPI will be this year? What goes into it? What are the most important factors?"

Doug Elgin, the commissioner of the MVC, said that is a "cop out." Hinson added that there is no secret code to cracking the RPI, saying, "This is not 'National Treasure' with Nicholas Cage."

In the 100th season of the MVC, nearly 80 percent of the starters are back. And three schools -- Creighton, Wichita State and Southern Illinois -- are expected to challenge for the top 25 all season. Whether that means the MVC can get as many berths as the ACC for the second straight season remains to be seen.

During the ACC's media gathering last month, Williams repeatedly talked about the need to expand the tournament because there are more teams around the country capable of deep runs. When someone finally interrupted to ask how much the field should be expanded, Williams flashed a smile and said, "Just enough so we get in."


It cracks me up, the big boys always want the upperhand. If you are a member of the ACC and enjoy the benefits of that league (t.v., recruiting, t.v., recruiting, t.v., recruiting, dickie V's wad) then you should also, like a man, accept the negatives (tough to crack the top half of the league).

Also Gary, if you played a true road game against an OOC team that might help. Oops I just helped him crack that impossible code.

XSaluki
11-05-2006, 08:23 PM
Also Gary, if you played a true road game against an OOC team that might help. Oops I just helped him crack that impossible code.

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol: Classic.

txsaluki05
11-05-2006, 08:35 PM
Barry Hinson is hilarious; man that was an entertaining read. Cannot wait til we bust 4 more teams into the tourney this March.

Aargh
11-05-2006, 10:10 PM
I read somewhere that ACC teams have 117 nationally-televised games this year. With that kind of exposure Williams can't recruit (or coach?) well enough to get past the first round of the NIT?

That's a huge recruiting advantage over teams like UNI, SIU, CU, MSU, BU and WSU. All of those teams did better in the post-season than Williams. Williams also happens to be coaching in the middle of the best recruiting area in the nation.

Which is it Gary? Is it that you can't recruit even with huge advantages over other schools? Or is it that you can't coach?

If there's any conference who's "cracked the RPI code" it's the ACC. The only reason the bottom-dwellers in the ACC have respectable RPI's is because they have automatic games against Duke and UNC that give them gimungous SoS boosts. Then mid-tier ACC teams like Maryland get all pumped up because they beat Wake Forest and WF has a monstrously overrated RPI.

Then Williams and Maryland go out and prove how severely the middle of the ACC is overrated by getting blown up by 15 at home in the first round of the NIT. While the Valley goes out and proves how severely it's underrated by putting 2 teams in the S16.

Nyghtewynd
11-05-2006, 10:25 PM
For as much as Hinson seems to be the must-call quote when talking about the MVC, you'd think that the school would get something out of it eventually.

unipanther99
11-05-2006, 10:34 PM
I love that these reporters have taken to getting quotes from Barry on all of these national stories involving the MVC... He's kind of become the league's unofficial spokesman and it cracks me up every time.

Hein72
11-05-2006, 11:02 PM
I love Barry. His comments were amazingly funny. Gary Williams has his head so far up the ACC's ***. Play a quality schedule outside of your house and outside of the confrence and mabey you wont get left sitting at home in March.

-Z-
11-05-2006, 11:28 PM
If MSU ever decided to get rid of Barry, the MVC should hire him as the league spokesman. That would probably guarantee one more at-large bid just because of all the great lines he would have in all the national publications.

The ACC can have Packer and DV pushing their cause, I'll take Hinson!

:bears: :valley:

SubGod22
11-05-2006, 11:34 PM
"What's great about 'Revenge of the Nerds' is that the nerds ended up winning. Last thing I know, they left with all the hot chicks."

Maybe the best quote from him yet

shockerfan13
11-05-2006, 11:36 PM
If MSU ever decided to get rid of Barry, the MVC should hire him as the league spokesman. That would probably guarantee one more at-large bid just because of all the great lines he would have in all the national publications.

The ACC can have Packer and DV pushing their cause, I'll take Hinson!

:bears: :valley:


I say CBS get rid of Packer and put Barry in his place (although I think he is still a good coach and hope he can stick around at MSU. Can't fault the guy for what happened last year). I would tune in to hear him as a commentator/analyst LOL.

redbirdtim
11-06-2006, 01:05 AM
I am shocked and appalled that Barry Hinson would take enough time away from coaching to watch an entire Nicholas Cage movie...you don't make the NCAAs by taking 2 hour breaks...:lol:

Joking aside, the ACC just can't handle the fact that we're playing good basketball in the MVC and beating those who will play us in a fair environment (no, I don't consider 3 games in a row at Duke with no return game fair).

MikeKennedyRulz
11-06-2006, 08:10 AM
Man, I hope MSU never gets rid of Barry. That dude is fricking hilarious and he is always right there with a good quote. :clap: :clap:

CaliRdBrd
11-06-2006, 10:31 AM
The Valley better live up the the hype this year.

frontrowdrake
11-06-2006, 02:48 PM
Ditto to the congrats to Barry. I've been saying (I wish we coyuld check the OLD Valleytalk archives) that Barry is my second favorite coach in the Valley (I love Dr. Tom). He is a gentleman, a good Christian and the funniest guy ariound. God bless him. He represents the Conference well. Believe me, most Iowans would rather have Barry than Steve Alford.:bears: :valley:

smsandmsuson
11-06-2006, 02:53 PM
Ditto to the congrats to Barry. I've been saying (I wish we coyuld check the OLD Valleytalk archives) that Barry is my second favorite coach in the Valley (I love Dr. Tom). He is a gentleman, a good Christian and the funniest guy ariound. God bless him. He represents the Conference well. Believe me, most Iowans would rather have Barry than Steve Alford.:bears: :valley:


Dont know how this will go amongst the other Bear fans, but I wouldn't mind trading...

rjl
11-06-2006, 03:56 PM
The Atlantic 10 is working toward developing a scheduling philosophy that would encourage teams with postseason aspirations to schedule difficult opponents. Schools expected to be at the bottom of the standings, however, could schedule easier opponents.

It is a philosophy based on the strategy of the MVC, which had six schools ranked in the top 40 of the RPI last season. The MVC "implemented a thoughtful strategy," said Dayton Athletic Director Ted Kissell, who chairs the committee addressing the Atlantic 10's scheduling issues. "If they get fewer teams in this year, that doesn't make their strategy less relevant. The lesson is strategic, not how many teams you get in, which depends on so many variables."Virginia Tech and Maryland have scheduled differently this season in hopes of improving their RPI. Greenberg scheduled three neutral court games because they count more than home games in the formula. Williams said he scheduled teams such as Winthrop and Fordham at home instead of schools with RPIs worse than 200.

Wow.

So, they're implying that the MVC has SOOOOO much control over their non-con scheduling that the individual teams can pick and choose what caliber of team they play in any given year, just as easy as grandma going grocery shopping?

That might be one of the most unintentionally funny paragraphs I've read in some time.

The black helicopters are hovering all over A-10 and ACC land.

frontrowdrake
11-06-2006, 03:57 PM
:innocent: I KNEW I'd get a bite on that! You can have him.

dean_siu
11-06-2006, 06:54 PM
Florida State was left out of the NCAA tournament despite a 9-7 ACC record largely because of a weak nonconference schedule. Seminoles Coach Leonard Hamilton said scheduling is particularly challenging because one does not know who will be viewed as a strong opponent by the end of the season.

"You're asking me a question that I can't give you an answer to because the people who are now tweaking the formula are giving you information that they really can't give an answer to," Hamilton said.


Well....lets look at FSU's non-conference schedule......

11/12/06 vs. McNeese State Tallahassee, Fla. 7:30 p.m. ET
11/13/06 vs. Illinois State Tallahassee, Fla. 7:30 p.m. ET
11/14/06 vs. SMU Tallahassee, Fla. 7:30 p.m. ET
11/19/06 vs. New Orleans Tallahassee, Fla. 5:00 p.m. ET
11/24/06 at Pittsburgh Pittsburgh, Pa. 7:30 a.m. ET
11/28/06 at Wisconsin Madison, Wi. 7:30 p.m. ET
12/03/06 vs. Florida Tallahassee, Fla. 7:30 p.m. ET
12/05/06 at Stetson DeLand, Fla. 7:00 p.m. ET
12/07/06 at Georgia State Atlanta, Ga. 7:00 p.m. ET
12/10/06 vs. SE Louisiana Tallahassee, Fla. 2:00 p.m. ET
12/18/06 vs. High Point Tallahassee, Fla. 7:00 p.m. ET
12/21/06 vs. Coastal Carolina Tallahassee, Fla. 7:00 p.m. ET
12/23/06 vs. St. Peter's Tallahassee, Fla. 12:00 p.m. ET
12/29/06 vs. Providence Tampa, Fla. 9:30 p.m. ET

I only see 3-4 teams that even have a chance to make some noise in this years tournament (plus one or two others which may contend to win small conferences)....meanwhile, there's 7-8 cupcakes on there and only 3 games where they leave the state of Florida.

If you scheduled games with the likes of SIU, Creighton, Hofstra, etc and these ended up as non-quality games, I could buy the argument. But nobody is giving Illinois State (sorry Redbird fans), Georgia State, or Hight Point much of a chance to succeed this year.

Leonard's argument is weak and I hope he's whining big time come selection sunday.

MoValley John
11-06-2006, 07:38 PM
Well....lets look at FSU's non-conference schedule......

11/12/06 vs. McNeese State Tallahassee, Fla. 7:30 p.m. ET
11/13/06 vs. Illinois State Tallahassee, Fla. 7:30 p.m. ET
11/14/06 vs. SMU Tallahassee, Fla. 7:30 p.m. ET
11/19/06 vs. New Orleans Tallahassee, Fla. 5:00 p.m. ET
11/24/06 at Pittsburgh Pittsburgh, Pa. 7:30 a.m. ET
11/28/06 at Wisconsin Madison, Wi. 7:30 p.m. ET
12/03/06 vs. Florida Tallahassee, Fla. 7:30 p.m. ET
12/05/06 at Stetson DeLand, Fla. 7:00 p.m. ET
12/07/06 at Georgia State Atlanta, Ga. 7:00 p.m. ET
12/10/06 vs. SE Louisiana Tallahassee, Fla. 2:00 p.m. ET
12/18/06 vs. High Point Tallahassee, Fla. 7:00 p.m. ET
12/21/06 vs. Coastal Carolina Tallahassee, Fla. 7:00 p.m. ET
12/23/06 vs. St. Peter's Tallahassee, Fla. 12:00 p.m. ET
12/29/06 vs. Providence Tampa, Fla. 9:30 p.m. ET

I only see 3-4 teams that even have a chance to make some noise in this years tournament (plus one or two others which may contend to win small conferences)....meanwhile, there's 7-8 cupcakes on there and only 3 games where they leave the state of Florida.

If you scheduled games with the likes of SIU, Creighton, Hofstra, etc and these ended up as non-quality games, I could buy the argument. But nobody is giving Illinois State (sorry Redbird fans), Georgia State, or Hight Point much of a chance to succeed this year.

Leonard's argument is weak and I hope he's whining big time come selection sunday.

Illinois State will look good at the end of the season because they play two games against Creighton, Wichita State, Missouri State and SIU. They finish 6th in the Valley and tell me that isn't an RPI booster.

MVC Fan
11-06-2006, 09:14 PM
Guarantee that FSU will be pointing to that stretch against Pitt, Wisconsin & Florida as their 'proof' that they got tough in scheduling. Never mind those are the only 3 games where there is even half a risk involved...even games against ISU, Providence & SMU are on their turf.

Glad to see Yaeger, Elgin & Hinson continue to stand their ground on this. Sickening that the ACC has to resort to formally campaigning for themselves...every league's coaches think their league is the best, but it sounds like they'll stop at no end on this one.

Here's an idea Gary: tell your conference commissioner he shot your hoops programs in the foot when he added non-basketball schools like Miami & Va. Tech. The ACC used to be a perennial top 3 conference...not any more. :wheelchair:

DUShock
11-06-2006, 09:18 PM
Winning & hot chicks, nice retort Barry!

Go Valley!!

Go Shocks!!!!

outpost
11-06-2006, 09:30 PM
They've chartered a new Omega Moo chapter on the campus of the U of Maryland.

Enjoy, Gary.