WSU losses

[MVC 4 Life]

I posted this on Saluki talk I was just wondering what the WSU posters think of my thinking. This is not a knock on your team just an observation.

WSU has not just lost but has got down by a wide margin in their losses. It is not like SIU in there losses, were in the last 10 or so mins the other team hit some shots an got up by at the most 10 or so or they lost in the last mins. WSU gets down and gets down big in the first half. They have just gotten their *** kicked. That would scare me. I know they come back, but is that them or is that the other team letting up a little and not staying aggressive. I think it is a little of both. I guess what I am saying is that I fell better about are lose to UNI, than I would feel if I was a WSU fan about their loses to SIU and MSU. Just because we were in the game the whole time and they were not.

[MSNSaluki]

I posted this on Saluki talk I was just wondering what the WSU posters think of my thinking. This is not a knock on your team just an observation.

WSU has not just lost but has got down by a wide margin in their losses. It is not like SIU in there losses, were in the last 10 or so mins the other team hit some shots an got up by at the most 10 or so or they lost in the last mins. WSU gets down and gets down big in the first half. They have just gotten their *** kicked. That would scare me. I know they come back, but is that them or is that the other team letting up a little and not staying aggressive. I think it is a little of both. I guess what I am saying is that I fell better about are lose to UNI, than I would feel if I was a WSU fan about their loses to SIU and MSU. Just because we were in the game the whole time and they were not.

You're asking for trouble here ...:doh:

[MVC 4 Life]

I would just like to know how they feel about it. This is not a knock on them at all. Let me repeat that this is not a knock on your team. You guys could win out. I know this, that is how talented you guys are. That is the only reason why I ask, if you sucked I would not care.:valley:

[doinit salukistyle]

this could very well be in the same category as the wsu poster who said "i'm not smacking, but are SIU and CU fan's disappointed in how their teams havent improved in the last 5 years?"

[Aargh]

I'm not concerned yet. This was a brutal schedule for opening league play. So far the Shox are one game off of last year's pace and that's only because WSU beat MSU in Springfield last year.

There are some "uncorrectable" problems for WSU. Lack of height and depth in the frontcourt comes to mind. A few players are trying things they can't really do. That's probably "correctable", but that contributes to early deficits on the scoreboard. A few players are playing without the intensity they had early in the season and have gone from over-achievers to under-achievers. A few players appear to be in slumps.

It's possible that one or more players spent too much time watching the polls and watching themselves on ESPN. WSU has a couple of players who are a "highlight clip waiting to happen" and a couple of players who appear to be trying to make "highlight" plays when that's not something that's really in their game.

If there's anything that bothers me it's the players reaction to adversity. Brauer and Wilson have both had some on-court reactions that don't help the team. That's totally out of character with what we've seen out of those guys in 2 years.

There needs to be someone on the court to keep the players focused, hustling and concentrating on execution. That's what WSU fans thought would be the biggest thing lost with Miller.

[Dawgbit]

The abyss?

[Canevision]

Do the Shocker fans think in any way that the trip to Europe to play early this year has anything to do with their mid-season slump? Perhaps they're legs are a little tired at this mid-point and they need to regroup.

The early start could also have contributed to the hot start, as they were able to get into "mid-season form" alot quicker than most teams.

Just looking for some opinions here.

[Aargh]

Turg talked to other coaches about the effects of an early tournament out of the country. What Turg said to the media was that other coaches told him to look out for burn out later in the season.

That could be a factor in some "less enthusiatic" play the Shox seem to be showing now.

[ShockerPrez]

Let's see.

UNI - They are on fire at this point and playing about as good as anyone.
SIU - Hmmm, have won like all of their games at home for the past 100 years.
MSU - Maybe having their best season in school history, and hit about 80% from 3.

Those don't really look like 3 bad losses regardless of how they are begot. And are probably 3 losses that perhaps every other team in the valley is going to lose as well.

[XSaluki]

We went on a 3 of 5 in the Valley a couple seasons ago, and a few opposing fans started claiming the we should be worried, we were collapsing etc, and then we still won the valley.

It is a long season and everyone has different schedules.

[MikeKennedyRulz]

Do the Shocker fans think in any way that the trip to Europe to play early this year has anything to do with their mid-season slump? Perhaps they're legs are a little tired at this mid-point and they need to regroup.

The early start could also have contributed to the hot start, as they were able to get into "mid-season form" alot quicker than most teams.

Just looking for some opinions here.

No, but the trip to CANADA might have contributed. :grin: I honestly don't think that had anything to do with it. If ten days of practice in August and three games over a weekend against basically NAIA teams wears you down, you shouldn't be playing college basketball at the D-1 level.

[martymoose]

Do the Shocker fans think in any way that the trip to Europe to play early this year has anything to do with their mid-season slump? Perhaps they're legs are a little tired at this mid-point and they need to regroup.

The early start could also have contributed to the hot start, as they were able to get into "mid-season form" alot quicker than most teams.

Just looking for some opinions here.


I missed the Europe trip....damn

[Jamar Howard 4 President]

this could very well be in the same category as the wsu poster who said "i'm not smacking, but are SIU and CU fan's disappointed in how their teams havent improved in the last 5 years?"

Both are very legit questions. People need to stop being so sensitive and be willing to discuss basketball.

:original:

[JayJay]

I posted this on Saluki talk I was just wondering what the WSU posters think of my thinking. This is not a knock on your team just an observation.

WSU has not just lost but has got down by a wide margin in their losses. It is not like SIU in there losses, were in the last 10 or so mins the other team hit some shots an got up by at the most 10 or so or they lost in the last mins. WSU gets down and gets down big in the first half. They have just gotten their *** kicked. That would scare me. I know they come back, but is that them or is that the other team letting up a little and not staying aggressive. I think it is a little of both. I guess what I am saying is that I fell better about are lose to UNI, than I would feel if I was a WSU fan about their loses to SIU and MSU. Just because we were in the game the whole time and they were not.

Every team has its own personality. Some teams, like SIU, are like pit bulls and just never go away. Other teams are more streaky and may get down (or up) by double digits before the game tightens up. The Korver CU teams made a habit of getting down by 10 or more in the first half (often at home) before pulling away in the second half. Drove me crazy, but they usually got the W. (This did come back to bite them in a big way in the NCAAs. They got behind to Central Michigan by 26 in the 2nd half and got it back to 2 before running out of gas.) Anyway, if I were a WSU fan, I wouldn't be too concerned. Who knows, maybe this is the year they get CU in Omaha.

[Canevision]

Doh! Canada.

:doh:

[MVC 4 Life]

Let's see.

UNI - They are on fire at this point and playing about as good as anyone.
SIU - Hmmm, have won like all of their games at home for the past 100 years.
MSU - Maybe having their best season in school history, and hit about 80% from 3.

Those don't really look like 3 bad losses regardless of how they are begot. And are probably 3 losses that perhaps every other team in the valley is going to lose as well.


I guess I never looked at it that way. Man, MSU was shooting the lights out. It seemed like they would never miss and you are right about UNI. They are tuff.

[btisu22]

No, but the trip to CANADA might have contributed. :grin: I honestly don't think that had anything to do with it. If ten days of practice in August and three games over a weekend against basically NAIA teams wears you down, you shouldn't be playing college basketball at the D-1 level.
The Sycamores took a trip to Canada this past off season and I don't see any burn out, if anything, I see a team that has come together quite well.
:sycamores:

[MVC 4 Life]

Every team has its own personality. Some teams, like SIU, are like pit bulls and just never go away. Other teams are more streaky and may get down (or up) by double digits before the game tightens up. The Korver CU teams made a habit of getting down by 10 or more in the first half (often at home) before pulling away in the second half. Drove me crazy, but they usually got the W. (This did come back to bite them in a big way in the NCAAs. They got behind to Central Michigan by 26 in the 2nd half and got it back to 2 before running out of gas.) Anyway, if I were a WSU fan, I wouldn't be too concerned. Who knows, maybe this is the year they get CU in Omaha.


I would just like to know if WSU was getting down in the first half in their wins. I have only seen them play twice (which is why I asked the question). Because if that is the case I could see how I would not be worried. Hell if WSU had come back in their loses to win. This would not even be a question. :lol: :lol:

[MVC 4 Life]

I'm not concerned yet. This was a brutal schedule for opening league play. So far the Shox are one game off of last year's pace and that's only because WSU beat MSU in Springfield last year.

There are some "uncorrectable" problems for WSU. Lack of height and depth in the frontcourt comes to mind. A few players are trying things they can't really do. That's probably "correctable", but that contributes to early deficits on the scoreboard. A few players are playing without the intensity they had early in the season and have gone from over-achievers to under-achievers. A few players appear to be in slumps.

It's possible that one or more players spent too much time watching the polls and watching themselves on ESPN. WSU has a couple of players who are a "highlight clip waiting to happen" and a couple of players who appear to be trying to make "highlight" plays when that's not something that's really in their game.

If there's anything that bothers me it's the players reaction to adversity. Brauer and Wilson have both had some on-court reactions that don't help the team. That's totally out of character with what we've seen out of those guys in 2 years.

There needs to be someone on the court to keep the players focused, hustling and concentrating on execution. That's what WSU fans thought would be the biggest thing lost with Miller.

Thank you for you answers. Good post

:valley: :shockers: :salukis:

[MVC 4 Life]

this could very well be in the same category as the wsu poster who said "i'm not smacking, but are SIU and CU fan's disappointed in how their teams havent improved in the last 5 years?"

In no way the same. At all:no: :no: :no:

[shockball]

Losses have been by 8, 5, 4, 4, and 3 points. These have not been last possession losses, but yesterday was the only blowout. I don't think we miss Paul Millers athletic ability, but roles were pretty well defined last year. He touched the ball every possession. This is a change in chemistry.

I would expect burnout to occur in the last third of the season, not the middle third, so I don't think that is the reason for our slump. Some players have not yet improved and are not shouldering their share of the extra responsibilities. IMHO

[Cdizzle]

But a new wind was about to blow.

[dawg_tired nemesis]

I know WSU was down by 7 pts to Mason in the second half before they took over and won. At SU WSU was down by 7 or so about 5 minutes into the game before they took the lead for good. I think one reason WSU is getting down so far is their lack of rebounding and are not taking care of the ball. At SIU their 1st 3 posessions were turnovers, not one shot. They are playing like they did against George Mason last year in the sweet 16. Spot the team a large lead and battle back.

[Divergence]

I find some of the "sky is falling" mentaility from some fans interesting. I had one guy tell me yesterday they need to pull Wilson and play Ryan Bradley in his place because "he's just got to be able to be better". He had some other interesting ideas.

IMO, WSU has played the top 3 teams in the league (2 on the road). They battled, but these 3 teams (at least to this point) are just more complete than WSU. It's been a tough stretch, but this team has battled where alot of teams would have quit. Now if the continue to fight and don't quit, I think they will be alright.

The real question I have is just where does WSU fit into the league. Are they No. 4, No. 5, No. 6 or lower? I have not got to see the Indy St., Evansville or Drakes of the league on TV to see how WSU matches up. I guess we'll have another piece of the puzzle Wednesday.

[MVC 4 Life]

Mikekenndy made me aware of this and this has to make WSU fans feel at least a little better.

Yeah, then I look at the upcoming schedule and I feel slightly better:

at Indy St
Evansville
CU
at Ill St
at BU
Drake
at Evansville

While this will be tough, it is nothing like:

UNI
at SIU
BU
at MSU

What a start to a season. The thing is, if WSU was 3-1 with the teams they played in the beginning. You guys would have ran away with the valley.
__________________

[AcePurple]

WSU has really had only one result that wasn't "status quo": the home loss to UNI. Basically, I think you look at the "big 5" and assume 14-4 for all of them: win every home game and win the 5 road games against the "other 5". So, right now:
UNI is +1 b/c of the win @ WSU
SIU & MSU are right on track
WSU is -1 b/c of the home loss
CU is -1 b/c of the loss at In. St.

Now, maybe all 5 will lose at In. St., which completely neutralizes that game for everyone, but that's pretty much a nice simplistic way to look at the "contenders". In. St. seems to be the biggest potential wildcard in all this, but I just don't think they're true "contenders" at this point. Maybe they'll finish ahead of one or two of the perceived "contenders", but I just don't see them winning the whole thing.

[genius4point0]

Mikekenndy made me aware of this and this has to make WSU fans feel at least a little better.

Yeah, then I look at the upcoming schedule and I feel slightly better:

at Indy St
Evansville
CU
at Ill St
at BU
Drake
at Evansville

While this will be tough, it is nothing like:

UNI
at SIU
BU
at MSU

What a start to a season. The thing is, if WSU was 3-1 with the teams they played in the beginning. You guys would have ran away with the valley.
__________________

6-1 for WSU is truly what I expect in those 7 games and 7-0 is not out of the possibility.

I think BU will nip one of the top at least one of the top 5 when in Bradley and In St. will likely get at least one more of the top 5 at their place. Who wins the valley will be determined by those games and if someone can pull off a road win against a top 5 team like UNI has already done.

[gopanthers!]

I don't think I would be worried if I was a WSU fan. Slightly let down, maybe, after the great start to the season, but there's still a lot of basketball to be played. I don't think many teams are going to walk into either SIU or MSU and come out with a victory, so I wouldn't consider those bad losses at all. I was honestly surprised at the outcome of the UNI game, because I had that one pretty much penciled in as a Panther loss. Seems we like to play at the Koch though! :bounceblue: You guys have a solid team and should perform well in the next stretch of games (well, as long as the supposed chemistry/ leadership issues get resolved).

[MikeKennedyRulz]

I don't think I would be worried if I was a WSU fan. Slightly let down, maybe, after the great start to the season, but there's still a lot of basketball to be played. I don't think many teams are going to walk into either SIU or MSU and come out with a victory, so I wouldn't consider those bad losses at all. I was honestly surprised at the outcome of the UNI game, because I had that one pretty much penciled in as a Panther loss. Seems we like to play at the Koch though! :bounceblue: You guys have a solid team and should perform well in the next stretch of games (well, as long as the supposed chemistry/ leadership issues get resolved).

Yeah, I had the Shox at 2-2 in conference now, with wins at home against UNI and BU and losses at SIU and MSU. So, the way I see it they are only one game off of the pace I anticipated. Meaning, they will likely have to win at either CU or UNI and win the games they are supposed to win.

[shockerfan13]

Not worried yet, and really not TOO surprised either. As others have said I also had us as 2-2 at this point in the Valley as well and had us as 9-2 in the non-conference which is what we finished it at. I just didn't expect all the losses in a row...so it makes it seem worse. So yeah, we are a game behind where I expected, but as with every year just about you will lose some you should win (at home against UNI) and win some that you should probably lose (yet to be seen in conference play).

There are some things individually that concern me (fouls & rebounding) but as far as record I'm not that concerned...just a little disappointed but no one likes to lose.

The one good thing from all this so far...we haven't lost to ANY bad teams. And with Valley play everyone is going to get their share of losses...yeah you too UNI ;).

[doinit salukistyle]

Both are very legit questions. People need to stop being so sensitive and be willing to discuss basketball.

:original:

:lol: funny...you're absolutely right. I have a question for you then...just because your name is jamar howard 4 prez...there is a theory out there, that is called the ewing theory...paraphrasing, that teams that underachieve with their star players, what sometimes is the best thing that happen to them is that they lose their star

ie red sox with normar, patriots with bledsoe, etc...

is Jamar howard and the shox the valley version of that? :original:

[GivEmDaShocker24]

The only wide margin was the MSU game, the rest weren't by more than 5.

[Jayfan]

this could very well be in the same category as the wsu poster who said "i'm not smacking, but are SIU and CU fan's disappointed in how their teams havent improved in the last 5 years?"

:lol:

[Jayfan]

[QUOTE=MVC 4 Life]Mikekenndy made me aware of this and this has to make WSU fans feel at least a little better.

Yeah, then I look at the upcoming schedule and I feel slightly better:

at Indy St:no:
Evansville:no:
CU:yes:
at Ill St:no:
at BU:no:
Drake:no:
at Evansville:no:

While this will be tough, it is nothing like:

UNI
at SIU
BU
at MSU

The only gaurantee in that list is Creighton:yes:

[creightonfever]

The only gaurantee in that list is Creighton:yes:


huh?

[Jayfan]

huh?


I'm trying a reverse Karma thing :original:

[Divergence]

I'm trying a reverse Karma thing :original:
Rule No. 11 of Oliver's Woofing Theorem

reverse woofing is the most serious type of woofing possible, and a reverse-woofer DOOMS his/her team to an embarrassing loss.

[BEARNUT]

I'm not that talented with the English language, Divergence, can you please interpret for those of us who are less fortunate.

As far as WSU goes, I still think that they will be the HOT team the last ten games of the season when it counts. They have too much talent and too good of a coach to fizzle out toward the end of the season.

[Divergence]

I'm not that talented with the English language, Divergence, can you please interpret for those of us who are less fortunate.

Google it Grasshopper and you shall have the knowledge.

Weauxf gods, woof gods: The omniscient beings who maintain the balance of sport by punishing those who boast too much about their teams. See also "OWT," "weauxf" and "anti-weauxf."

[BEARNUT]

There goes my signature line for now, I guess, and thank you, Divergence, for insightful thoughts brought forth by you to make Valley Talk a better place. A think tank, mind you, for Basketball fans everywhere.

[Ricky Del Rio]

The abyss?

Seems like it, but no. Not at this time.

There are two problems, which will be solved next year.

You know the Shockers' favorite expression, "Wait until next year."

Actually, it was the Aggies, who originated the expression relative to a win over t.u. (True Aggies never capitalize t.u.)

[Jayfan]

Rule No. 11 of Oliver's Woofing Theorem

[/I][/B]


:doh: :shutup: :doh: