Valley Reality Check

[PinhookDave]

First off let me say I am very proud of what the Valley teams have accomplished this year. WSU whipping "Big Baby" and crew in their house. Their beating the Urban Barney Fife and his team in the Carrier Dome, MSU beating Wisky, ISU beating Butler all great accomplishments and there is some I probably left out. But tonight I was doing a reality check by asking myself how would MSU,UNI,CU, or any other Valley team fare against a Florida, UNC, or UCLA ?

Call me a "half full glass" kinda of a guy but I don't think it would be pretty. Since I'm more familar with MSU , I'll compare them against Florida. I think Drew Richards would be in foul trouble within the first 10 minutes,and I think they would get crushed on the boards by Noah and Horford. They could probably cause some problems with their defense, and their shooting ability might let them hang close for awhile but I can't help but think they would wilt in the second half.

Against UNC how long could they stop Hansbrough ? I just don't see any "equalizer" on MSU's side against these types of teams. I am not familiar enough with the players on other teams to make an overall evaluation. SIU with Falker might give these teams fits but Falker and Tatum would both have to be hitting on all 8 cylinders. On any given night any Valley team could make it interesting but long run I don't think that the outcomes would be positive.

Well I'll leave it at that (donning asbestos suit) and get prepared for a massacre

[3ontheway]

I think the main thing that sways your thinking is perception. These teams are on TV all the time with Dukie V screaming awesome baby!!!! about 100 times, see their highlights all over SC, etc., etc. Neutral court, I know they can play with these teams, and in a one game series, in some cases win.

Hopefully, come March, we'll see.

Bradley was supposed to mopped all over the court by the McDonlad's All American roster of KU, right?

I mean Alando Tucker is a lottery lock and POY according to Dukie V, unstoppable, rebel force. No way MSU can guard that guy.

[smacktalkermsu]

I mean Alando Tucker is a lottery lock and POY according to Dukie V, unstoppable, rebel force. No way MSU can guard that guy.

Technically we didn't guard Tucker......He had almost Half of Wisky's points.......but we did do a hell of a job on their guards.

[3ontheway]

Fair enough, the guy is somewhat of a rebel force, but if Ahearn is throwing in 6 24 foot bombs, Wiscy fans will think he is an unstoppable rebel force.

[Nyghtewynd]

Leave the speculation for college football. In basketball, we actually play these games out. Would a team like MSU be an underdog at UF? Yeah, sure. (Heck, I think they're an underdog at SIU, much less the Gators.) But no one thought they stood a chance against Wisconsin, and as of right now they're the only blemish on The Dub's schedule.

[btisu22]

First off let me say I am very proud of what the Valley teams have accomplished this year. WSU whipping "Big Baby" and crew in their house. Their beating the Urban Barney Fife and his team in the Carrier Dome, MSU beating Wisky, ISU beating Butler all great accomplishments and there is some I probably left out. But tonight I was doing a reality check by asking myself how would MSU,UNI,CU, or any other Valley team fare against a Florida, UNC, or UCLA ?

Call me a "half full glass" kinda of a guy but I don't think it would be pretty. Since I'm more familar with MSU , I'll compare them against Florida. I think Drew Richards would be in foul trouble within the first 10 minutes,and I think they would get crushed on the boards by Noah and Horford. They could probably cause some problems with their defense, and their shooting ability might let them hang close for awhile but I can't help but think they would wilt in the second half.
Against UNC how long could they stop Hansbrough ? I just don't see any "equalizer" on MSU's side against these types of teams. I am not familiar enough with the players on other teams to make an overall evaluation. SIU with Falker might give these teams fits but Falker and Tatum would both have to be hitting on all 8 cylinders. On any given night any Valley team could make it interesting but long run I don't think that the outcomes would be positive.

Well I'll leave it at that (donning asbestos suit) and get prepared for a massacre
This is all fine, those are the top 3 teams in the nation. What have some of the other "BCS" teams done against these teams? What is going on in the Valley is growth! Most of our teams would be very competitive in the "Major" conferences. Sure, they have their elite teams, nobody is disputing that, but we can play with their teams. Why should a middle pack Big East team get in over a solid MVC team? I think that is what the main questions are. Top to bottom, Valley teams have beat "Major" teams this season. Outside of Evansville, doesn't every team have a win over a "Major"?

[MVC Fan]

I think the main thing that sways your thinking is perception. These teams are on TV all the time with Dukie V screaming awesome baby!!!! about 100 times, see their highlights all over SC, etc., etc. Neutral court, I know they can play with these teams, and in a one game series, in some cases win.

Great call.

Don't be beaten down by all the hype. MVC teams are about team play, not individuals...they could hold their own against the top as well as anybody. The results do not lie, the #s do not lie...they've already proven they can do it.

[blueness]

Flashback:

Last season...

Let's compare George Mason, one of the last teams to get into the tournament...do you really think they would have a shot at beating the #1 overall seed, UCONN?


Matchups like this on paper are exactly that, on paper. Not saying the Valley teams would beat this year's "elite teams" regularly, but stranger things have happened.

[dab212s]

I think Mo State can hang with North Carolina, I say take it to Tyler Hans hard and get him in foul trouble and everything will be fine. I don't think NC is any better than Wisconsin, and the Bears are better right now than they were when they played Wisconsin.

Florida would be tough.

[Aceman96]

We can't compare the Valley's teams to those BIG boys by comparing the MSU win against Wisconsin. You obviously have to look at match-ups, skills, and the way they are playing at the time. MSU surprised Wisc because of a few factors. Obviously they were overlooked, obviously MSU was well prepared, and then the experience factor comes into play. A team like MSU is going to be ready early in the year because their main guys are used to playing together and in Barry's system. Whereas much of the Wisc roster is underclassmen. While the starting line-up was upperclassmen, that only gives them "more reason" to be cocky and arrogant going into a game against the "lowly MVC".

Not only that, but Wisc doesn't have comparative numbers agaisnt the UF's, UCLA's, and teams of that high ranking right now... their biggest win so far was at home against a young OSU team that is probably still overrated. However, as the season goes along, the ceiling for these teams is much higher than the MSU's and the SIU's and UNI's.

[BeeLine]

As long as we think like that, then we should never complain if our 2nd thru 4th place teams get passed over for the middle of the pack 4th-7th place BCS conference teams come tourney time. Because if that's what we believe we don't belong.
I think in any given year, there are between 3-6 teams [that will almost always come from the traditional power conferences ]that are head and shoulders above the other teams, but that includes the other teams from their conferences as well, just as as btisu22 indicated. That is where your national champion will probabaly always come from. The tendency has been to let those elite teams carry the average to good teams from their conferences on their coattails and be seen as better than they are comparatively with top teams from the other conferences. That is what is changing and needs to continue to become a more objective view of the relative parity in college basketball .
Because basketball is such a team sport at our level, things like chemistry, experience , coaching, confidence, momentum, depth and injury, will always be key factors that can minimize the advantage of individual talent even when it's spread among several players. That's what we have going in our favor at this time.
But we have to stop minimizing our own victories, stop acting like these games are upsets in the noncon. If Missouri State beats North Carolina in Chapel Hill, that's a huge upset; if we beat Wake Forrest on a neutral site, that's a good win. If we lose to Geo Tech in Springfield, that's a dissapointing loss. We're not a top 4 rated conference because of smoke and mirrors, computer numbers illusions, or a lucky streak. Do we have a super team , no; but do I think all of our upper divison teams would compete for similar psotions in the major conferences, yes. Don't compare us to UCLA/DUKE/ FLORIDA/ NC , but don't overlook us in comparison to Alabama/ Pitt/ Wash/ Wisc types.

[dab212s]

Do we have a super team , no; but do I think all of our upper divison teams would compete for similar psotions in the major conferences, yes. Don't compare us to UCLA/DUKE/ FLORIDA/ NC , but don't overlook us in comparison to Alabama/ Pitt/ Wash/ Wisc types.


Wisconsin is better than UCLA and definitely better than Duke, and IMO is better than UNC and about the same as Florida.

[3ontheway]

We can't compare the Valley's teams to those BIG boys by comparing the MSU win against Wisconsin. You obviously have to look at match-ups, skills, and the way they are playing at the time. MSU surprised Wisc because of a few factors. Obviously they were overlooked, obviously MSU was well prepared, and then the experience factor comes into play. A team like MSU is going to be ready early in the year because their main guys are used to playing together and in Barry's system. Whereas much of the Wisc roster is underclassmen. While the starting line-up was upperclassmen, that only gives them "more reason" to be cocky and arrogant going into a game against the "lowly MVC".

Not only that, but Wisc doesn't have comparative numbers agaisnt the UF's, UCLA's, and teams of that high ranking right now... their biggest win so far was at home against a young OSU team that is probably still overrated. However, as the season goes along, the ceiling for these teams is much higher than the MSU's and the SIU's and UNI's.

Wisconsin overlooked them? Thats a convenient excuse, but Bo Ryan coached teams don't just stroll out onto the court expecting to wipe the floor with the other team. The bottom line is if these 2 teams matched up in the tourney the vegas line would be 5 or less and it wouldn't be that big of an upset if MSU beat them again.

I have a buddy that is an IU fan, and he has said before that IU just does not get up for a game against a Valley school and that it is such a big game for the valley school that they tend to play over their head, etc., etc.

It is such a crock. If they are so superior, there should be no convenient excuses and just stomp the other team.

[BEARNUT]

This whole thread sounds like one big excuse being thrown into our face. How many teams did we have in the tournament last year? How many great teams in the past have been shunned by the comittee by handing them a 10 seed or worse, while giving a borderline BCS team a 5-7 seed. Maybe Gary Williams needs to stop bothering us by starting these demeaning threads.

[Nyghtewynd]

You obviously didn't watch the MSU/Wisky game. For the first 25 minutes of that game, MSU was so much the better team that it isn't funny. They were better at every skill and at every single position on the floor. Then they stopped making open shots, and that's how Wisky came back. MSU was the better team that day, and they deserved the win.

[Coasterbill42]

You obviously didn't watch the MSU/Wisky game. For the first 25 minutes of that game, MSU was so much the better team that it isn't funny. They were better at every skill and at every single position on the floor. Then they stopped making open shots, and that's how Wisky came back. MSU was the better team that day, and they deserved the win.


If UW hadnt gotten red hot on offense in the second half we would have won by 15+.

[Hail Red & White]

Wisconsin overlooked them? Thats a convenient excuse, but Bo Ryan coached teams don't just stroll out onto the court expecting to wipe the floor with the other team. The bottom line is if these 2 teams matched up in the tourney the vegas line would be 5 or less and it wouldn't be that big of an upset if MSU beat them again.

I have a buddy that is an IU fan, and he has said before that IU just does not get up for a game against a Valley school and that it is such a big game for the valley school that they tend to play over their head, etc., etc.

It is such a crock. If they are so superior, there should be no convenient excuses and just stomp the other team.


Just like they overlooked North Dakota State last year? :grin: