MVC Conspiracy?

[AceJ]

Just thought I'd throw this out there...

This is something that I had a conversation with a couple of buddies of mine last night after the UE-UNI game.

Does anyone think that anything was said to the referees about favoring the higher ranked team this Saturday. Honestly...there's always talk about how tough it is to win on the road in the Valley, and suddenly in one day....all five teams w/ a higher RPI win on the road....all five. Think about that.

This comes after weeks of everyone in the media saying, "Well, the MVC is even tougher this year, but they're beating each other up so much....they're only going to get 3 in this year". Do you think that that's been in Elgin's ear a little too much.

This Saturday was a huge plus for the Valley, being that all 5 potential NCAA teams won on the road....but was it fair?

This is nothing to take away from UNI's win, or any other teams....but honestly, last nights game was the worst-called I've seen in years. Merfeld gets two technicals on atrocious calls, UE gets 3 equally bad intentional fouls (one on a non-seen jersey grab on a breakaway, a hard foul w/ ball going to basket, and fighting through a screen on an inbounds play)....our starting point guard has 4 fouls in about 9 minutes of play (by the way....he was 5-6 with 4 three pointers in just about 15 minutes of play).

Take away the 2 technicals, the 3 intentional fouls, the 4 ticky tack fouls on our very solid PG who was having a ridiculously good shooting night (2 of his three pointers were about 25 feet out), and we have a real shot of winning that game last night.

Albeit...there were bad calls both ways...but I'm going to go out on a limb and say UE got 0% home-cooking in a game where they played well enough to have a chance to win.

Does anyone else get the feeling that the Valley WANTS teams like UE, Illinois St, Drake to lose in conference play.....and might go so far as to give better teams the benefit on the doubt on refereeing?

Just thought that I would throw that out there. I honestly think theres probably not any sort of a conspiracy (at least conciously...) but I thought I would throw it out there

(PS...Even though this is a first post, I'm a long time watcher on this board....and have followed Valley basketball for about the last 5 years, including going to almost all UE home Valley games during that time)

:valley:

[BearsChiefsFAN]

all i know is the charge call at the end of the Drake game was bs...I personally think it should have been a no call.

[IH8SIU]

:lol: :innocent: :grin: :helpsmilie: :ermm: :fear: :doh: :cursing: :clap: :chair: :bounceblue: :bash: :banana: :banghead: :Jumpy: :yes: :wheelchair: :ranting: :shutup: :sleeping: :original: :no: :noexpression: :naughty:

^^^They just all look cool working together at once. As far as what you just said goes...

:no: :lol: :helpsmilie: :doh: :cursing: :chair: :bash: :banghead: :wheelchair:

[DoubleJayAlum]

AceJ I think you are nuts.

FWIW - if a fix was in, I think that the fixers would have had WSU win. SIU is as close a lock as there is in the MVC, while WSU would have become bubblicious with a win. If the goal was to try to get as many MVC teams as possible in, WSU's chances would have been much better with a win...

[Ace Dad]

Anybody who thinks that anyone would say something or hint to referees about how to call a game is smoking some bad weed. Refs many times know if one team is much stronger than another, but c'mon. Refs cannot win no matter what they do. Fans can always do a better job.

[Urbandale Panther]

there is no conspiracy...just bad officiating. Rima, being the unbiased radio voice he is :innocent: had many thoughts on how UNI was being treated by officials, specifically Travis Brown called for a travel when his jersey was pulled, the 3 or 4 carry calls in the first half and the list goes on. Obviously there were as many calls the other way. UNI has seen its fair share of poor officiating this season. It looks to be something we all have to live with.

[saluki42]

If someone other than SIU, Creighton or MSU wins the conference tourney I will bring up this subject again. But until then!! :salukis:

[cuhoops]

all i know is the charge call at the end of the Drake game was bs...I personally think it should have been a no call.


Does anybody have a pic of this? Tolliver looked set to me.

[BradleyBrave]

If someone other than SIU, Creighton or MSU wins the conference tourney I will bring up this subject again. But until then!! :salukis:

Why? A team like BU winning in St. Louis means 4 Valley teams dance. SIU, CU, and probably MSU already have their tickets punched. It was better for the league that SIU won in St. Louis last year, and it will be better for the league if BU, UNI, or WSU win this year. Hopefully it's BU.

[DUBulldog]

Does anybody have a pic of this? Tolliver looked set to me.

I haven't watched the replay yet, but seems like most fans who were watching the game on TV said it was either a charge, or should have been a no-call (which would have tied the game). Drake fans keep thinking that one of these days, we're going to get a controversial call go our way at the end of a game.........I know we've had enough go against us over the years. :cursing: (that was not a reference to the call in yesterday's game).

[DUBulldog]

Why? A team like BU winning in St. Louis means 4 Valley teams dance. SIU, CU, and probably MSU already have their tickets punched. It was better for the league that SIU won in St. Louis last year, and it will be better for the league if BU, UNI, or WSU win this year. Hopefully it's BU.

I think that was his point....IF they were trying to "fix" things, they'd fix it in favor of a team that wasn't already likely in the tourney.

[Nyghtewynd]

You can quibble about certain games. But the officials didn't make WSU or InSU make the same number of baskets as their average shoe size yesterday. So that's two of the five. And, I might add, the five better teams beat the five worse teams. What's so surprising about that?

[Urbandale Panther]

Where were these conspirators when we lost to Drake? Although, the way Drake was shooting, we would have needed Hightower to ref the game to get out that mess.

[AceJ]

Ace Dad...you make a good point....no one's going to say anything to the refs.

But....'obviously' UNI is the much better team....shouldn't they win the game? Like you said, there may at times be assumptions of who is the better team...regardless of who comes to play that night.

Just for example...how many questionable calls will Funk or Tatum get? Probably more than a new freshman playing 10 minutes a night.

How many questionable calls will a perennial post-season team get, over a team who hasn't had a winning season in years?

You make the call....


Like I said before....I don't think there's a conspiracy (and don't worry Ace Dad...I don't smoke any ilicit substances)....


PS....according to my math.....(which could be bad), The Valley was 18-41 on the road before Saturday.....then went 5-0.

Just something to think about.

[AceJ]

Just to make it clear....

UNI deserved to win the game last night. They played hard, well, and with good energy.

But that still doesn't take away from the fact that UE got the very short end of the stick as far as officiating....and in their own building.

(Yes, there were definitely bad calls both ways....but UE lost 5 possesions (2 techs, 3 ints, and their starting point guard for most of the game....we have no good second option at PG).

[BradleyBrave]

Just to make it clear....

UNI deserved to win the game last night. They played hard, well, and with good energy.

But that still doesn't take away from the fact that UE got the very short end of the stick as far as officiating....and in their own building.

(Yes, there were definitely bad calls both ways....but UE lost 5 possesions (2 techs, 3 ints, and their starting point guard for most of the game....we have no good second option at PG).

Same could be said about the BU-MSU game in Peoria. That game is keeping BU out of 3rd right now, and a likely at-large. It happens.

[tpguy1]

Good thinking aceJ. I now realize ISU lost last night due to a conspiracy. Damn refs, damn the MVC.:bash:

[MVC 4 Life]

Ace Dad...you make a good point....no one's going to say anything to the refs.

But....'obviously' UNI is the much better team....shouldn't they win the game? Like you said, there may at times be assumptions of who is the better team...regardless of who comes to play that night.

Just for example...how many questionable calls will Funk or Tatum get? Probably more than a new freshman playing 10 minutes a night.

How many questionable calls will a perennial post-season team get, over a team who hasn't had a winning season in years?

You make the call....


Like I said before....I don't think there's a conspiracy (and don't worry Ace Dad...I don't smoke any ilicit substances)....


PS....according to my math.....(which could be bad), The Valley was 18-41 on the road before Saturday.....then went 5-0.

Just something to think about.

The refs favor the good players in every sport. Look at the NBA, MLB, NFL, and college basketball. I think it happens even more at the pro level than college. But at some point Funk and Tatum were freshman coming in to play 10 mins and would not get the calls.

[AceJ]

The refs favor the good players in every sport. Look at the NBA, MLB, NFL, and college basketball. I think it happens even more at the pro level than college. But at some point Funk and Tatum were freshman coming in to play 10 mins and would not get the calls.

That's exactly my point.....and everyone knows that and talks about that.

But no one hardly ever talks about if the 'better' teams get favored (whether that happens or not I don't know....), which was my second point

[MVC 4 Life]

That's exactly my point.....and everyone knows that and talks about that.

But no one hardly ever talks about if the 'better' teams get favored (whether that happens or not I don't know....), which was my second point

That is hard to say. I mean if two teams played on a neutral court with the best refs in the world, which would not miss one call. And both teams played to their potential. Then realistically the better team would win every time, because they are the better team. So to say that the better team gets the calls, which in turn lets them win I would say is not true. Because the better team should win anyway. SO I think it would be hard to prove that the outcome was expected by the refs when it is the outcome that is expected. :innocent:


I don't know. I just confused myself. :doh:

[LincolnJay]

I think the bigger case over a "refs fixing things" line of thinking is that the Top 5 teams in the league beat the bottom 5 teams in the league last night and the separation is happening.

Indiana State looks like they will mail in the rest of the year. 20 years of losing by Drake has led them to just not being able to finish off games even though they have decent talent. Evansville is running out of gas as they just aren't deep. Illinois State is dangerous but very young and seemingly have hit a plateau. There is a wide gulf and then you get to WSU who lost to the team that is probably the best team in the league.

[Mc Bulldog]

Forget about last night. If for one minute anyone thinks that Elgin and the league care about the game of basketball then you are mistaken. The only thing the league's front office cares about is cash .. cold hard cash. Simple as that.

At this point I'm ready for Drake to bail out of the Valley. Elgin and his crew can kiss my eff'n a=s=s.

[BMull10]

Does anybody have a pic of this? Tolliver looked set to me.
He was beyond set, anyone who thinks it wasn't a charge is just wrong.

[salukibob]

Just thought I'd throw this out there...

This is something that I had a conversation with a couple of buddies of mine last night after the UE-UNI game.

Does anyone think that anything was said to the referees about favoring the higher ranked team this Saturday. Honestly...there's always talk about how tough it is to win on the road in the Valley, and suddenly in one day....all five teams w/ a higher RPI win on the road....all five. Think about that.

This comes after weeks of everyone in the media saying, "Well, the MVC is even tougher this year, but they're beating each other up so much....they're only going to get 3 in this year". Do you think that that's been in Elgin's ear a little too much.

This Saturday was a huge plus for the Valley, being that all 5 potential NCAA teams won on the road....but was it fair?

This is nothing to take away from UNI's win, or any other teams....but honestly, last nights game was the worst-called I've seen in years. Merfeld gets two technicals on atrocious calls, UE gets 3 equally bad intentional fouls (one on a non-seen jersey grab on a breakaway, a hard foul w/ ball going to basket, and fighting through a screen on an inbounds play)....our starting point guard has 4 fouls in about 9 minutes of play (by the way....he was 5-6 with 4 three pointers in just about 15 minutes of play).

Take away the 2 technicals, the 3 intentional fouls, the 4 ticky tack fouls on our very solid PG who was having a ridiculously good shooting night (2 of his three pointers were about 25 feet out), and we have a real shot of winning that game last night.

Albeit...there were bad calls both ways...but I'm going to go out on a limb and say UE got 0% home-cooking in a game where they played well enough to have a chance to win.

Does anyone else get the feeling that the Valley WANTS teams like UE, Illinois St, Drake to lose in conference play.....and might go so far as to give better teams the benefit on the doubt on refereeing?

Just thought that I would throw that out there. I honestly think theres probably not any sort of a conspiracy (at least conciously...) but I thought I would throw it out there

(PS...Even though this is a first post, I'm a long time watcher on this board....and have followed Valley basketball for about the last 5 years, including going to almost all UE home Valley games during that time)

:valley:

I don't know; I don't think this theory holds water when it comes to SIU at home because it is common knowledge that all MVC officials allow us to win there all the time no matter what the rank of the teams.

[Mc Bulldog]

He was beyond set, anyone who thinks it wasn't a charge is just wrong.

Anyone who thinks that was a good call is a f'n idiot. And you Bmull think that was a good call. I can guarantee you .. the Salukis are going to knock your dick in the dirt. Take it to the bank.

[MSNSaluki]

Jesus, we've gone off the deep end with the complaining about the referees.

All five road teams win so it's a conspiracy. No, all five road teams were better than the home teams they faced yesterday. Simple as that.

As an unbiased observer (and an SIU fan) I am also here to tell you the charge at the end of the Drake game was legit. Tolliver was set.

Once again, the teams that lose ***** about the refs. Funny how that works.

[IndyTreeFan]

YES!!!! The refs cost us the game yesterday against MSU!!! I've been looking for a reason why we played soooooooooooo badly!

Give me a few minutes to put my argument together! I KNEW there had to be a reason other than we just stunk...

Thanks guys! I feel a lot better now!!!!

:bounceblue: :sycamores: :bounceblue: :sycamores: :bounceblue:

[MVC 4 Life]

Forget about last night. If for one minute anyone thinks that Elgin and the league care about the game of basketball then you are mistaken. The only thing the league's front office cares about is cash .. cold hard cash. Simple as that.

At this point I'm ready for Drake to bail out of the Valley. Elgin and his crew can kiss my eff'n a=s=s.


Don't let the door hit your *** on the way out.

[saluki42]

I think that was his point....IF they were trying to "fix" things, they'd fix it in favor of a team that wasn't already likely in the tourney.

Thank you DUBulldog!!!

[Ron Mexico]

Did the officials have anything to do with Indiana State shooting 17.6% yesterday? Wouldn't the MVC want its safest "in" team SIU to lose to the Shox so the possibility of 4 teams getting in is stronger?

[Ictjay]

Anyone who thinks that was a good call is a f'n idiot. And you Bmull think that was a good call. I can guarantee you .. the Salukis are going to knock your dick in the dirt. Take it to the bank.

The charging call on Funk in the first 10 minutes was off the charts. Flop FLop. Get off the crying. Moron

[Mc Bulldog]

Eat a turd punk.

[Divergence]

It was better for the league that SIU won in St. Louis last year, and it will be better for the league if BU, UNI, or WSU win this year. Hopefully it's BU.

When is the BU, UNI or WSU lottery going to take place? Can you get me that information before I leave for STL?

[blueness]

FEBRUARY 4, 2007.
THE VALLEY LOVE-FEST IS OFFICIALLY OVER.


:jays:

SWEEP THE ACES.

[BMull10]

Anyone who thinks that was a good call is a f'n idiot. And you Bmull think that was a good call. I can guarantee you .. the Salukis are going to knock your dick in the dirt. Take it to the bank.
LOL, I wanted your freaking Bulldogs to win, I have absolutely NO REASON to cheer for a call in favor of Creighton. It was the right call and it wasn't even close.

[Aceman96]

I'm gonna be an unbiased fan who says that charge call was a bad one. Yes, Tolliver was set, but I think the offensive player (can't think of his name... freshman #20) jumped as straight up as he could in that situation. He was under control, and was making a legit move to score under control. But, I didn't have to make the call in a fraction of a second, either.

On the other hand, this whole thread is ridiculous, again. Lets talk about Basketball, not referees.

[Aces101]

The problem for UE is the coach.....Merfeld rides the refs so much that they are sick of him. It is human nature to give a classy coach more calls than a screaming, whiner on the sidelines. Merfeld has become his own worst enemy. He must go!!

[Ace Happy]

Must say your loony conspiracy theory breaks down when you consider UE beat SIU and MSU at Roberts Stadium messing up their record momentarily.

[redbirdtim]

I think all Valley coaches "ride" the refs. They are constantly chirping about stuff, every single one of them. Heck, after listening to Les b@#$% and moan about wanting to get "one call" and how the refs "owed him a call,", I realized that its the animated ones that get the bad rap eventhough all coaches are pretty much chirping the entire game.

My coach does it a lot, Merfeld, Turg, Altman, Barry...all of them are griping with the refs constantly. However, it's part of the game. They get paid to win games, so of course they're going to be on the refs.

[salukibob]

Must say your loony conspiracy theory breaks down when you consider UE beat SIU and MSU at Roberts Stadium messing up their record momentarily.

Ya, thanks a lot! :banghead: :Jumpy: :ranting: :shutup:

[TrueBlueJay]

I'm gonna be an unbiased fan who says that charge call was a bad one. Yes, Tolliver was set, but I think the offensive player (can't think of his name... freshman #20) jumped as straight up as he could in that situation. He was under control, and was making a legit move to score under control. But, I didn't have to make the call in a fraction of a second, either.

On the other hand, this whole thread is ridiculous, again. Lets talk about Basketball, not referees.

Huh? He ran a player over, but because he went up as straight as he could, was under control and was making a legit move to score it shouldn't be a foul??? They must have changed the rules recently. :doh:

McB - haven't you sobered up yet!?

[DawgieStyle]

I'm not gonna read through this entire thread but from the first post and the title, let me just say this. you are now the champion of the

DUMBEST THREAD EVER!

[Bigcityp]

The problem for UE is the coach.....Merfeld rides the refs so much that they are sick of him. It is human nature to give a classy coach more calls than a screaming, whiner on the sidelines. Merfeld has become his own worst enemy. He must go!!

I hope that the only conspiracy the refs have in the MVC is to T up Merfeld so the University will see what an embarrassment he is and fire him. They have put up with his constant B**chin and whining for 6 years. Every time down the court, every little call, he is on them. He's is like a little kid tattling on the other team. "You gave it to them but not us"

Like someone else said earlier, THis weekend is the separation period between the top and bottom of the valley. All road teams winning shows how strong the top of the conference is getting.

[pbutler]

Conspiracy theory is nuts. If "The Valley" were fixing games then wouldn't it have been better to have WSU beat SIU to give them a better shot at an at large?

If so it must be frustrating to try and fix a game when the team you are trying to help only hits 12 field goals. Also interesting if they were trying to fix it that they called more fouls on SIU. Seems like if you were trying to fix a game you would call more fouls on the team you wanted to lose.

[TrueBlueJay]

I'm guessing the conspirators at the Valley office must have thought the Trees had a better chance of getting an at large bid than the Purple Kitties. :noexpression:

[Bigcityp]

I'm guessing the conspirators at the Valley office must have thought the Trees had a better chance of getting an at large bid than the Purple Kitties. :noexpression:

Purple Kitties???????? Are you referring to our coach or something???? He got purple when he was kicked out of the game the other night...

We've also beat SIU once this year which is something you've yet to do..

[Dawg_tired]

The counter conspiracy is beginning to work.

[DUBulldog]

Purple Kitties???????? Are you referring to our coach or something???? He got purple when he was kicked out of the game the other night...

We've also beat SIU once this year which is something you've yet to do..

Ummmmm....I think he was referring to UNI, who's color is purple and who's mascot is a kind of cat. But, that's just me. :original:

[AceGargantua]

So, all the best teams in the Valley won on Saturday? Golly. Must be a conspiracy.