Evansville shopping for a new conference?

[Shockerman]

Randomly came across this article about SIUE and their move to DI.

http://www.jg-tc.com/articles/2007/01/24/sports/sports002.txt

The OVC’s search for a 12th member to provide more even basketball scheduling n probably with north/south divisions meaning EIU would only have to journey to Alabama every other basketball season n has been ongoing. East Tennessee State is among the possibilities.

The strong preference to add a football member has probably stopped much discussion of financially troubled Evansville jumping from the Missouri Valley Conference to the Ohio Valley.

[indymoon]

Interesting, yes. Factual, ??? Someone tell me.

I recall when UE joined the Valley that the OVC had extended an invitation and would have welcomed the Aces. :aces:

[BearsCountry]

Man wouldnt Western Kentucky be ticked if this actual happened. I guess Butler would be fine to add in place of Evansville.

[bcrawf]

How is Butler in other sports?? Remember, this is not a Men's Basketball only league.

PS- Let both Indiana Schools go and find two other ones. UE flirted with dropping to DIII a couple years ago. Indiana State is just a mess in general, there doesn't appear to be a commitment to competing in anything...

[dawg]

Its all BS ... just ignore all that nonsense.

The MV is just fine the way it is ......

nuffsaid

[Aces101]

Butler stinks in all other sports. They are a sports school only in basketball. Their football is in the non-scholarship Pioneer League......same league that UE played in prior to dropping the football program.

[BearsCountry]

Actually two schools to look out for in the future - North Dakota State and South Dakota State. They will be tough to ignore, give them about 10 years in the Mid-Con.

By the way I am not pimping expansion, I think the 10 is perfect right now. In the future we might just have to knock some other leagues down to stay up on top.

[MSU Bleeds Maroon]

Man wouldnt Western Kentucky be ticked if this actual happened. I guess Butler would be fine to add in place of Evansville.

Given that WKU has decided to move up to 1-A in football, they weren't going to be a good fit in the Valley.

I love the fact that Valley membership has been stable for over a decade. I think that's a big factor in the cohesion and competitiveness of the league. But if UE chose to leave, Butler would be on my short list of potential replacements.

I also think it's pretty ironic that a UNI goof is making noises about kicking teams out. Before the MacDonald hiring, UNI was only competitive in two sports: football and wrestling. Neither sport is offered through the Valley. A decade ago, the Panthers would have been at the top of the list for excommunication. Apparently there's been a recent boom in the glass-housing market in Cedar Falls.

[bcrawf]

No, UNI has been the premier Volleyball program in the league. Our Men's Track and Cross Country Programs have multiple league team and individual championships and multiple All Americans.

Tony DiCecco has completely rebuilt the women's program. And we have one Valley championship in Baseball and almost knocked off Nebraska to get to the super regional (2002 or 2003, I believe).

UNI did not get into the league simply on the basis of Men's Basketball, though it has improved. That's my argument against Butler...

[MSU Bleeds Maroon]

No, UNI has been the premier Volleyball program in the league. Our Men's Track and Cross Country Programs have multiple league team and individual championships and multiple All Americans.

Tony DiCecco has completely rebuilt the women's program. And we have one Valley championship in Baseball and almost knocked off Nebraska to get to the super regional (2002 or 2003, I believe).

UNI did not get into the league simply on the basis of Men's Basketball, though it has improved. That's my argument against Butler...

And in 1997 (a decade ago), you might have had volleyball to hang your hat on.

Since the moral was apparently missed, I'll make it more plain: the bottom-feeders of today could very well be highly competitive in ten years. That's been the case for UNI. It could be the case for Indiana State, too.

[BearsCountry]

Given that WKU has decided to move up to 1-A in football, they weren't going to be a good fit in the Valley.

No WKU moved up bc they couldnt get in the Valley, they think of moving up to I-A football was their best way to get out of the Sun Belt for a better bb conference.

[CUsidekick05]

D1 AA football is a complete joke all together........GO Hawks!!!

[BearsCountry]

D1 AA football is a complete joke all together........GO Hawks!!!

Only good part of it is the playoffs and I guess the non-scholarship part for schools like Drake so they can at least play football.

[bcrawf]

Since the moral was apparently missed, I'll make it more plain: the bottom-feeders of today could very well be highly competitive in ten years. That's been the case for UNI. It could be the case for Indiana State, too.

The moral was not missed. I know what you are saying, however, UNI, and WSU in the dark years, had strong AD's that were committed to winning and investing in athletic programs.

Indiana State is not doing that. It's so bad that they are not allowing their football team to fly to games and that is why they don't want NDSU in the Gateway because its like a 14 hour bus ride.

True Story- When InSU came to Cedar Falls last year (2006 season) they played on a Saturday in the afternoon. Most Valley teams would have had a charter to leave that evening. I was headed out of town the next day and got to the Waterloo Airport, and there was their team sitting in the lobby waiting for their COMMERCIAL flight that didn't leave for three more hours.

Indiana State has a proud history and it's too bad they aren't committing to athletics right now. Their bad in both major men's sports (football and basketball), they have terrible attendance, which doesn't bring in money and its just a vicious circle. I actually feel bad for their athletes most of the time.

Here is a picture of the Indiana State crowd from when UNI went there to play football last October.

http://media.panthernation.com/albums/2006+Football/311.aspx

[mproviz]

Actually two schools to look out for in the future - North Dakota State and South Dakota State. They will be tough to ignore, give them about 10 years in the Mid-Con.

By the way I am not pimping expansion, I think the 10 is perfect right now. In the future we might just have to knock some other leagues down to stay up on top.

meh.. I think MVC has enough directionals as it is...

[cpacmel]

meh.. I think MVC has enough directionals as it is...

ummm North Dakota State and South Dakota State are not directionals..... they are the state schools of North Dakota and South Dakota, which are states mproviz. :helpsmilie:

Directionaly schools are like Western Kentucky, Northern Illinois, Southeast Missouri...

[MoState417]

If we had to add a school, we should add ORU. They have a great basketball team and a top baseball program.

[mproviz]

you guys take me too seriously...:innocent:

[NoPlaceLikeDome]

Since when is being a directional school any worse than being a ficitional state, like Morehead State, Wichita State, or Portland State.

In fact, if I recall one of the best athletic programs is a directional school. SOUTHERN California.

Apparently if we want to be legitimate we need to change our name to Cedar Valley State or something.

[Ferocious Cat]

Apparently if we want to be legitimate we need to change our name to Cedar Valley State or something.

Actually it would be South West Cedar Valley State, SWCVS...
and later Southwest Cedar Valley State, SCVS....
and finally Cedar Valley State, CVS!! Formerly OSCO to most.

We would still never be as legitimate as :bears:

[UofL17]

Until i hear it from a better source i won't put any faith into that. UE has a good baseball team and their basketball team just needs a new coach. If the BBall team starts winning again the fairweather fans will return and it will make more money than it is currently making. If the city of Evansville ever decides to build a new arena downtown on the river this will fit in with the MVC. (Some getting new arenas). The MVC is a great conference to be in and I hope the Aces do not leave.

[BearsCountry]

Actually it would be South West Cedar Valley State, SWCVS...
and later Southwest Cedar Valley State, SCVS....
and finally Cedar Valley State, CVS!! Formerly OSCO to most.

We would still never be as legitimate as :bears:

No UNI and SIU need to change their names to Iowa Tech and Illinois Tech. :original:

[mproviz]

when you have a state as big as cali, you can legitimately have a bcs directional or two...

[dawg]

Last time I checked Illinois was a pretty big state with the third largest city (even if Chicago seems like a bizarre state of its own sometimes).

[MSU Bleeds Maroon]

[Quote=MSU Bleeds Maroon
Given that WKU has decided to move up to 1-A in football, they weren't going to be a good fit in the Valley.
No WKU moved up bc they couldnt get in the Valley, they think of moving up to I-A football was their best way to get out of the Sun Belt for a better bb conference.[/QUOTE]

Ummm... huh?

You do realize that the Sun Belt is a 1-A football conference, yes?

WKU's commitment to 1-A football binds them even more tightly to the SBC. At the 1-AA level, WKU could have kept its non-football options open, as they'd fit geographically into several conferences. But at the 1-A level, there's nowhere else for WKU to go. The MAC is overcrowded, C-USA is a geographic joke, and the BCS conferences aren't hiring.

[btisu22]

I know that the last few years at Indiana State has been bad in Basketball and a few decades in Football. But other sports have been good. Yeah, we should leave the "Valley" because nobody here likes our football in the "Gateway"(I actually go to all of the games:helpsmilie: ). Well, there is now talk of a new football stadium on campus. People think this will be a key to getting football on track. It has to happen first. Our baseball in down right now, but traditionaly has been strong, it will be back. We are in the second year of a new AD that isn't from, what the locals have called, the "Good Ole Boys Club". He is starting to get things changed. He had the baseball coach here "retire" and it looks as Royce will be gone. I think that Lou West (football for those who don't know) is on a short leash. This is a guy who isn't afraid to ruffle feathers which is something we haven't had in decades here. Let's have this thread in about 4 years and see where the Sycamores are at then. I believe things will change for the good.
:sycamores:

[Mikovio]

In many cases, ____ State is really no better than those known as "directionals." NIU, SIU, EIU, WIU, and ISU were all in the same boat for many years as "Normal" schools. The distinction ISU fans (and administrators) try to make is illusory, and amounts to nothing more than a plead to ignorance.

Not only are SIU and NIU larger, but they have better and more expansive graduate programs (med schools, law schools). NIU is building what will be one of the top cancer research facilities in the nation.

Southern Cal and South Florida are already in BCS conferences. Southern Miss, East Carolina, and Central Florida have done well in C-USA. It's really not the stigma that so many (non-BCS) ____ State fans try to make it out to be....

[btisu22]

.

Southern Cal and South Florida are already in BCS conferences. Southern Miss, East Carolina, and Central Florida have done well in C-USA. It's really not the stigma that so many (non-BCS) ____ State fans try to make it out to be....
Southern Cal, if I'm not mistaken, is a private school.
http://www.usc.edu/about/ataglance/

[pbutler]

If Evansville leaves I vote for WKU or SLU to join MVC. Geographically Murray St. would make some sense.

[Mikovio]

Southern Cal, if I'm not mistaken, is a private school.
http://www.usc.edu/about/ataglance/

And that matters why? The issue is the stigma attached to having such a directional name.

Besides, South Florida isn't....

[BearsCountry]

Ummm... huh?

You do realize that the Sun Belt is a 1-A football conference, yes?

WKU's commitment to 1-A football binds them even more tightly to the SBC. At the 1-AA level, WKU could have kept its non-football options open, as they'd fit geographically into several conferences. But at the 1-A level, there's nowhere else for WKU to go. The MAC is overcrowded, C-USA is a geographic joke, and the BCS conferences aren't hiring.

I know what I am talking about bc this is what the WKU posters said directly. WKU moving up to I-A is more about the future and basketball than it is about the Sun Belt currently, they want a CUSA spot in the future and football is the only way they could get one.

[Shockerman]

If Evansville did end up leaving, I think we should stay at 9 members for the time being. Butler is the logical choice, RIGHT NOW, but we didn't fully do our homework the last expansion round. One of those schools has worked out, the other has been a bust. Staying at 9 for 3-4 years would give us the option to truly shop aroud and see who is the best fit. The three we would look at in my humble opinion would be Butler, ORU and SLU. The wildcard is that the Valley has been rumored to be looking into changing the Gateway name back to the Valley. If that happens, no doubt they will look into a school that has Football. That is where NDSU likely would come in. They are about ready to get a brand new on campus arena for Basketball, have a top notch baseball facility, and there Football is second to none. Who knows though, maybe if Evansville left we could be Valley champs in Baseball again.

[Ace95]

Besides, South Florida isn't....

That's for sure. The University of South Florida and the University of Central Florida are almost on the same parallel.

[E-Villan]

"much discussed move"

Funny, I read and follow all the media around here, coaches shows, fan gripes etc and the only place I see this is from a third rate reporter in a small, Illinois town.

This is nothing more than Shockermans annual bash Evansville posts. Why do school age kids in Wichita read online versions of small town newspapers in Illinois?

[douglasdmb]

The three we would look at in my humble opinion would be Butler, ORU and SLU.

Butler would be a great option and I really like ORU. SLU, however, has some of the most pompous fans ever who still think that moving to the A-10, where they have no geographic rivals, was the absolute best move for them.

[Awesome]

No WKU moved up bc they couldnt get in the Valley, they think of moving up to I-A football was their best way to get out of the Sun Belt for a better bb conference.

It's been said the real reason WKU is moving to I-A is so they can meet Title IX requirements, as they have a disporpotionate number of women's scholarships v men's.

It makes the most sense logically, better sense then they couldn't get into the Valley.

[BearsCountry]

It's been said the real reason WKU is moving to I-A is so they can meet Title IX requirements, as they have a disporpotionate number of women's scholarships v men's.

It makes the most sense logically, better sense then they couldn't get into the Valley.

Thats the "PC" answer, their fans say its bc they couldnt get in the MVC.

[Awesome]

As we all know, fans know more than university officials.

[BearsCountry]

http://www.valleytalk.net/showpost.php?p=40192&postcount=23

This is the one from this board, I will try to find the big conversation over on AnyGivenSaturday.com

[DoubleJayAlum]

Who cares about WKU?

If Evansville should happen to leave the MVC, WKU would not be the first team on my list. Instead, we should look for teams from large metro-areas that might be more appealing when negotiating TV contracts. Of the names mentioned in this thread, SLU would best meet this criteria, but there may be others as well.

One other good thing is that if SLU were admitted, maybe we could move the conference tourney out of St Louis and to KC.

I don't think the Aces are going anywhere....

[BearsCountry]

Who cares about WKU?

If Evansville should happen to leave the MVC, WKU would not be the first team on my list. Instead, we should look for teams from large metro-areas that might be more appealing when negotiating TV contracts. Of the names mentioned in this thread, SLU would best meet this criteria, but there may be others as well.

One other good thing is that if SLU were admitted, maybe we could move the conference tourney out of St Louis and to KC.

I don't think the Aces are going anywhere....

I would rather add quality than market size, you could add a UMKC or Chicago State but what would that add other than market size?

[DoubleJayAlum]

I would rather add quality than market size, you could add a UMKC or Chicago State but what would that add other than market size?

Point taken - it has to be a team from a big market that people within that market actually care about. Better?

A quality team from the middle of nowhere does nothing to help with ongoing TV coverage issues.

[Coasterbill42]

meh.. I think MVC has enough directionals as it is...

That is one of the stupidest quotes I have ever read on this board.

[Awesome]

http://www.valleytalk.net/showpost.php?p=40192&postcount=23

This is the one from this board, I will try to find the big conversation over on AnyGivenSaturday.com

I don't read anywhere in that post where it says they moved becasue the Valley didn't take the team. Reasons 1-3 are real reasons with validity, just like Title IX is.

Saying the Valley won't expand for being the reason is like saying Mo State changed its name because the University of Missouri-Columbia wouldn't let us also be known as UMC.

[BearsCountry]

I don't read anywhere in that post where it says they moved becasue the Valley didn't take the team. Reasons 1-3 are real reasons with validity, just like Title IX is.

Saying the Valley won't expand for being the reason is like saying Mo State changed its name because the University of Missouri-Columbia wouldn't let us also be known as UMC.

Here it is:
4) Future conference affiliations. As a I-AA, we had no further options unless the MVC for some reason expands (it's not). We had peaked. With I-A football it does open some more does for future conference changes. Not saying it will happen, but at least we can have those conversations being I-A where we couldn't as a I-AA.

[Awesome]

Here it is:

Yeah, and I already responded to that.

What you're describing is the school saying to itself:

University Official 1: Hmmm, we need to improve our profile, we should do that through athletics.
University Official 2: Yeah, athletics is the way to go. I know! Let's call the MVC and see if they will let us in.
MVC: No.
UO1: Well crap, what do we do now?
UO2: Well, obviously we have to go to our backup plan, and move football to DI-A.
UO1: Lame, if only the Valley would let us in.

[BearsCountry]

No, Western Kentucky wants to get in a better basketball league. Currently in their region better than the Sun Belt is MVC, CUSA, and MAC. Now the MVC is the best and they dont to have to upgrade football. MVC said no. In order to prepare themselves for an opening in CUSA or MAC you have to have I-A football.

[saluki_in_ohio]

No, Western Kentucky wants to get in a better basketball league. Currently in their region better than the Sun Belt is MVC, CUSA, and MAC. Now the MVC is the best and they dont to have to upgrade football. MVC said no. In order to prepare themselves for an opening in CUSA or MAC you have to have I-A football.

WKU would have been admitted to the MAC without any preparation. The MAC is really down in basketball.

[Hail Red & White]

I think we can drop discussion about luring Butler to the MVC. Time and time again BU officials have said they are happy in the Horizon League and that they are a better fit for the profiles of other member schools compared to the Missouri Valley. If Evansville ever did decide to leave the Valley, the Ohio Valley could be a good fit for them. Personally, I think they are good for the MVC and would hate to see them leave. St. Louis would be good for the MVC too, but if they don't want to join our conference, it's their loss, in my opinion. I still think North Dakota State would be a nice pickup, but if they were interested in joining, I hope it wouldn't mean we'd be obligated to give South Dakota State, North Dakota, or South Dakota a look. To me, NDSU has the best up-side of all the Dakota schools in terms of basketball prowess. :valley:

[BearsCountry]

I think we can drop discussion about luring Butler to the MVC. Time and time again BU officials have said they are happy in the Horizon League and that they are a better fit for the profiles of other member schools compared to the Missouri Valley. If Evansville ever did decide to leave the Valley, the Ohio Valley could be a good fit for them. Personally, I think they are good for the MVC and would hate to see them leave. St. Louis would be good for the MVC too, but if they don't want to join our conference, it's their loss, in my opinion. I still think North Dakota State would be a nice pickup, but if they were interested in joining, I hope it wouldn't mean we'd be obligated to give South Dakota State, North Dakota, or South Dakota a look. To me, NDSU has the best up-side of all the Dakota schools in terms of basketball prowess. :valley:

Actuallly South Dakota State is the basketball school out of the two. They are a little down right now but should bounce back. The other two Dakota schools not interested in at all, but NDSU and SDSU remind me alot of Missouri State and UNI.

[MSUAllSports]

Butler stinks in all other sports. They are a sports school only in basketball. Their football is in the non-scholarship Pioneer League......same league that UE played in prior to dropping the football program.

Butler is good at cross country and track. Was 4th at nationals in cross country a few years ago. Not important sports in this boards opinion but adding a school that had those sports would be good for the MVC because the mvc schools sponsoring men's track is down to 6 and if another drops it, like MSU did, we lose our individual conference champions NCAA auto qualification to the regionals. Hopefully we don't do what the MAC is doing and progressively exterminate track and field from the conference.

Now back to basketball and football, sorry for the interuption :naughty:

[Scalare76]

That article was about SIU @ Edwardsville. Did I miss something?

[unipanther99]

If there is change... I would think they would wait to see how things shake down in the Gateway. That conference could be eliminated and the two Dakota schools could join the Missouri Valley, and they could start playing football under that name again. I think both of those schools have been doing a great job in their transitions from D2 to D1. And... They have the unusual advantage of actually being the the "Missouri Valley" geographically speaking.

I could also see the conference going a different direction if football isn't in the equasion. UW Milwaukee or Loyola-Chi would bring us into decent media markets.

[Drakey]

I find it amazing how many posters view Evansville as not worthy because of 4 or 5 bad basketball seasons. One or two players and they could be conference champions in a year or two and all of this talk would end. The statement that "one of the teams we added was a bust" is nonsense. Evansville probably finished ahead of UNI evry season until UNI's little Jacobsen run started.

[unipanther99]

I find it amazing how many posters view Evansville as not worthy because of 4 or 5 bad basketball seasons. One or two players and they could be conference champions in a year or two and all of this talk would end. The statement that "one of the teams we added was a bust" is nonsense. Evansville probably finished ahead of UNI evry season until UNI's little Jacobsen run started.

Please quote where anyone has said Evansville is not worthy... I believe everyone is speculating if Evansville decided to leave on their own terms. UNI was bad in men's basketball during the late 90's and early 2000's... nobody is disputing this. Teams have their ups and downs. Athletic departments need to decide what is best for them and move forward. I hope Evansville stays, but it doesn't hurt to speculate on some possibilities on a fan message board should something happen.

[AcePurple]

"much discussed move"

Funny, I read and follow all the media around here, coaches shows, fan gripes etc and the only place I see this is from a third rate reporter in a small, Illinois town.


I notice everyone just chose to ignore this post. I guess reality just isn't as exciting as made up crap. This is all moot, b/c Evansville is not leaving the Valley.

[89rabbit]

To me, NDSU has the best up-side of all the Dakota schools in terms of basketball prowess. :valley:

Hold your horses there. Although SDSU's Men's Program is currently down, we are missing 4 starters from this year's team (we will get two of them back next year) South Dakota State has been and will be once again the Basketball power in the Dakotas. NDSU has traditionally been the football power.

SDSU's teams, both Men's and Women's have won D-II National Championships, lead the Nation in D-II attendance, numerous times. Our Men were ranked #1 in the Nation our last season in D-II. Currently our Women's program has an RPI of 54 and is on track to be the first ever transitional team to get an invite to the WNIT.

Finally we already have a great basketball arena.

http://www3.sdstate.edu/ClassLibrary/Page/Images/Data/10071.jpg
Frost Arena (Cap. 9,000) Men's game

http://www3.sdstate.edu/ClassLibrary/Page/Images/Data/10086.jpg
Women's game differnt angle

http://www3.sdstate.edu/ClassLibrary/Page/SDSU/PhotoAlbum/Images/Photos/ph_426.jpg
Close up of scoreboard


Don't get me wrong I think both NDSU and SDSU would be nice fits for the MVC down the road, but we are the basektball school.