Rank the MVC programs

[Dawgbit]

Screw the arenas. Left a few out, my apologies. Who has done the most to elevate the MVC?

[MikeKennedyRulz]

Lowery is a decent coach.

[Dawgbit]

Marshall is a great coach.:naughty:

[Cdizzle]

What is the time frame on this?

[kyyle23]

Im sure this will be a very fair and unbiased poll with no opinions interfering with the results.

/sarcasm

[C0|db|00ded]

No question WSU. All the other programs that elevated this conference have left... well.. besides Bradley.


T


...:cool:

[Dawgbit]

What is the time frame on this?


Here, today.

[Cdizzle]

So you want to know which school has done the most to benefit the Valley in the last 19 hours?

[Dawgbit]

So you want to know which school has done the most to benefit the Valley in the last 19 hours?

No, the last hour and five minutes, when I made the original post.

[Cdizzle]

No, the last hour and five minutes, when I made the original post.

ahh. i see. so basically you're seeing how many fans of each school are on the forum.

[Dawgbit]

No, basically, you are an idiot.

Sorry dude.

[IheartBU]

Haven't we had this poll going on under several different names for the last week or so???

Longterm, I go with BU. We've had some downtime, but we're working on it. :braves:

[cantbeatthejays]

No question WSU. All the other programs that elevated this conference have left... well.. besides Bradley.


T


...:cool:


One tourney appearence in twenty years? From :valley:?

That's a little biased if I ever saw one... Jays fan here that says SIU is the premier PROGRAM in :valley:

[Cdizzle]

One tourney appearence in twenty years? From :valley:?

That's a little biased if I ever saw one... Jays fan here that says SIU is the premier PROGRAM in :valley:


This argument has a fundamental flaw though. It's just as easy to say one Sweet 16 in 2 years. And just as right. Most would argue that this is what a biased WSU fan would say. But then why do those same people conviently cut off their analysis of WSU basketball right before an era of tremendous success?

Either way, if no time frame is given, or parameters set, all you will get is bickering.

[NoPlaceLikeDome]

Are we talking just basketball? Because if so, it's easy, SIU.

If other sports are taken into account, UNI would be very high. With our good performance in basketball (both women and men), volleyball, track and field and tennis the athletic program at UNI is very good.

It's a shame we can't include wrestling and football, two sports UNI is the best at ( the past 15 years) in the conference.

[Nyghtewynd]

That's easy...Barry Hinson. He hasn't done anything to elevate his own school, but he's been great at saying the right things in the media and getting every other school into the tournament.

[AcePurpleFan]

No.. it has definitely been Merf and UE for the last 5 years. Just think, if we had any kind of team in the last five years, the Valley wouldn't be close to as good as it is. Somebody has to be the whipping-boy!

:fear: :chair:

:lol:

[troutangler]

Wichita State would be at the bottom of that list. Hell, Barry Hinson himself beat them three times in one season! Do you know how pitiful you have to be for that to happen?

SIU followed by Creighton at the top.

[WSUfan]

With everything that happened today - Virginia Tech Massacre and Guy Ntang's death - this thread makes me wonder about people's priorities in life. Young men and women play the sports they love for schools that they adopt and represent. Some fans seem to get enjoyment from putting down other schools and take pride in taunting visiting players. It just makes me sad. If I was ever critical of any student-athlete who plays for a Valley school - any Valley school - I withdraw my criticism.

[Phantom]

Obvious homerism here of course but I'd like to know where Illinois State would stand in this poll if it were asked 8-9 years ago? :lol: :lol:

[kyyle23]

With everything that happened today - Virginia Tech Massacre and Guy Ntang's death - this thread makes me wonder about people's priorities in life. Young men and women play the sports they love for schools that they adopt and represent. Some fans seem to get enjoyment from putting down other schools and take pride in taunting visiting players. It just makes me sad. If I was ever critical of any student-athlete who plays for a Valley school - any Valley school - I withdraw my criticism.

This isnt about taunting and tearing down players, this is about picking the team you feel has done the best to represent the MVC in the past (X amount) years.

[Ricky Del Rio]

Screw the arenas. Left a few out, my apologies. Who has done the most to elevate the MVC?

The Shockers.

[DawgieStyle]

are we talking MVC all sports programs or just MVC basketball programs, and for what length of time? What is the criteria? You could bend the stats and qualifications on this and have a case for several valley teams. Unless you define the parameters, this thread is pointless.

[dogdays]

The question is flawed in this regard. How many schools have been to the final four? WSU and ISU, maybe BU but im not sure about them. WSU's was years ago, ISU's was 28 years ago and BU's was before that , what in the 50's before the modern era. But if you just go by that then Ind st is one of the top programs.
Ok , now lets go final Eight. Well WSU , not sure if anyone else but that was once 27 years ago. Still a nice accomplishment.
Now Sweet 16's. WSU one, MSU 1 SIU 3 , BU at least 1, not sure.
NIT championships. SIU one, BU 2, maybe 3? One in the modern era.
All of these things point to moments of success over the years but do they really point to the " best program" . And couldnt that change , in fact doesnt it change from time to time.
So how far back you go depends on how far back you need to go to justify your point in a sense , doesnt it.
My opinion, and its biased.

In the modern era( most agree the modern era began some time in the late 60's to early 70's
I would say that SIU has to be in the top two or three( in the past 40 years and the top one in the past 20 years), and for these reasons.
1 NIT Chamionship
10 NCAA bids, 9 in the last 15 years.
3 Sweet 16's ( two in the past 6 seasons)
8 nit total appearances.
14 post season bids in the past 19 seasons
8 MVC league championships
5 MVC tourney championships

Now maybe someone has an equal record over the past 25-35 years . And certainly all schools have had their ups and downs(SIU between 1980-88 was bad for sure) in the past 35 or 40 years. That said, I believe that SIU for the past 20 years and maybe even 30 years has had the best overall program in the league.
Thats my .02 worth

[DUBulldog]

The question is flawed in this regard. How many schools have been to the final four? WSU and ISU, maybe BU but im not sure about them.

Bradley, Drake, Indiana State and Wichita State have been to the final 4. Indiana State was the most recent, in 1979.....Drake was in 1969.....Wichita was (I think) 1965....Bradley was some time in the 50's. Creighton might have been there prior to that.

[Bird]

Are you asking what programs helped the most in getting the Valley from the 14th best conference about 5 years ago to the 6th best conference the past couple years? I think its pretty clear that what was accomplished back in the 60's and 70's did nothing for the recent resurgence of the Valley because the Valley was terrible in the late 90's to early 00's.

I think CU and SIU were the schools that got the rest of the Valley back on track to make a commitment to make the Valley a good basketball conference once again.

[Mikovio]

The question is flawed in this regard. How many schools have been to the final four? WSU and ISU, maybe BU but im not sure about them. WSU's was years ago, ISU's was 28 years ago and BU's was before that , what in the 50's before the modern era. But if you just go by that then Ind st is one of the top programs.

Bradley has two Final Fours (both national title game appearances) in the 50s, which gives them more than anyone else.

As to this talk of the "modern era," it seems a little selective on your part, in that it encompasses the 60s but not the 50s. But more on that later....

Ok , now lets go final Eight. Well WSU , not sure if anyone else but that was once 27 years ago. Still a nice accomplishment.

Agreed.

Now Sweet 16's. WSU one, MSU 1 SIU 3 , BU at least 1, not sure.

BU has 4 Sweet 16s.

NIT championships. SIU one, BU 2, maybe 3? One in the modern era.

SIU's NIT title was in 1967.
BU's NIT titles were in 1957, 1960, 1964 and 1982. Once again, you understate everything Bradley.

Ah, our old friend "modern era." So only one of BU's NIT titles was in the modern era? So we know 1982 is in the "modern era," and 1964 is not.

Now we get to pinpoint the precise date of this "modern era." Since SIU's NIT title was in 1967, that must be the "modern era." So we've learned the modern era started after 1964, but before 1967. There you have it folks -- the "modern era" of college basketball began in either 1965 or 1966. You really do learn something every day.

Ironically, the 1982 NIT title is actually the least prestigious of BU's titles. BU's 1960 NIT champions were ranked 4th in the nation, and beat 14th-ranked Providence to win it. The other two NIT Final Four teams that year were #8 and #9. Of course by 1982, there were no ranked teams playing in the NIT.


All of these things point to moments of success over the years but do they really point to the " best program" . And couldnt that change , in fact doesnt it change from time to time.

Sure it can change. But that would require matching the success of the past.


So how far back you go depends on how far back you need to go to justify your point in a sense , doesnt it.

It would seem.


In the modern era( most agree the modern era began some time in the late 60's to early 70's

I disagree. Some believe the "modern era" began in 1985 (with expansion of the NCAAs to 64), others 1979 (Bird/Magic and the establishment of ESPN), and still others go back to WWII, and institution of the NBA Draft. Typically, they set the parameters for their own benefit. Methinks you're trying to include Walt Frazier and your 1967 NIT title while discounting everything beforehand.


I would say that SIU has to be in the top two or three( in the past 40 years and the top one in the past 20 years), and for these reasons.
1 NIT Chamionship
10 NCAA bids, 9 in the last 15 years.
3 Sweet 16's ( two in the past 6 seasons)
8 nit total appearances.
14 post season bids in the past 19 seasons
8 MVC league championships
5 MVC tourney championships

Now maybe someone has an equal record over the past 25-35 years . And certainly all schools have had their ups and downs(SIU between 1980-88 was bad for sure) in the past 35 or 40 years. That said, I believe that SIU for the past 20 years and maybe even 30 years has had the best overall program in the league.
Thats my .02 worth

-Bradley has 31 postseason appearances (21 NIT, 8 NCAA, 1 appearance in both the short-lived Commissioner's Classic and the NBCT). The postseason has only been around since 1938, or for 69 years. Take into account the fact that BU suspended basketball during WWII, and we have made the postseason 31 out of 67 years -- more than a 46% clip. Very few programs can match this... or at least very few that have always been D-I.

-The last 3 first-round NBA Draft picks out of the Valley came from Bradley (Hawkins in '88, Parker in '97 and O'Bryant in 2006). BU representation in the NBA is tops in the Valley, both current and historically.

-Bradley was the 9th-winningest college basketball program in the 1960s. No other current Valley program has made the top-10 for a decade.
http://www.sportsstats.com/AP/alldecade.html

-Bradley is the 26th-winningest program in college basketball. Best in the Valley, by far.


I could go on, but I need to get to Torts. Needless to say, only the Shockers and Bulldogs can come close to matching BU's all-time success as a program, without anybody molding the parameters to suit their own agenda....

[Brave2001]

NCAA '50, '54, '55, '80, '86, '88, '96, '06
NCAA Sweet 16 '50, '54, '55, '06
NCAA Final 4 '50, '54
NCAA Final '50, '54
NIT '38, '39, '47, '49, '50, '57, '58, '59, '60, '62, '64, '65, '68, '82, '85, '94, '95, '97, '99, '01, '07
NIT Champion '57, '60, '64, '82
7-Time MVC Regular Season Champs
2-Time MVC Tourney Champs '80, '88
3-Time Little 19 Conference Champ '13, '26, '29

It's all based on perspective.


The following is based on Current Membership (teams that left...who cares)
If you want MVC all time, I pick Bradley.
If you want MVC last 50 years I pick Bradley.
If you want MVC last 25-30 years I pick Bradley, WSU, Indiana State.
If you want MVC last 10 years I pick SIU, CU.
If you want MVC last 5 years I pick SIU, CU.
If you want MVC last 2 years I pick Bradley, WSU, SIU.

One things for sure, Bradley seems to be in quite few of those list.

[Cdizzle]

NCAA '50, '54, '55, '80, '86, '88, '96, '06
NCAA Sweet 16 '50, '54, '55, '06
NCAA Final 4 '50, '54
NCAA Final '50, '54
NIT '38, '39, '47, '49, '50, '57, '58, '59, '60, '62, '64, '65, '68, '82, '85, '94, '95, '97, '99, '01, '07
NIT Champion '57, '60, '64, '82
7-Time MVC Regular Season Champs
2-Time MVC Tourney Champs '80, '88
3-Time Little 19 Conference Champ '13, '26, '29

It's all based on perspective.


The following is based on Current Membership (teams that left...who cares)
If you want MVC all time, I pick Bradley.
If you want MVC last 50 years I pick Bradley.
If you want MVC last 25-30 years I pick Bradley, WSU, Indiana State.
If you want MVC last 10 years I pick SIU, CU.
If you want MVC last 5 years I pick SIU, CU.
If you want MVC last 2 years I pick Bradley, WSU, SIU.

One things for sure, Bradley seems to be in quite few of those list.

Thanks for the perspective. Agreed.

[txsaluki05]

NCAA '50, '54, '55, '80, '86, '88, '96, '06
NCAA Sweet 16 '50, '54, '55, '06
NCAA Final 4 '50, '54
NCAA Final '50, '54
NIT '38, '39, '47, '49, '50, '57, '58, '59, '60, '62, '64, '65, '68, '82, '85, '94, '95, '97, '99, '01, '07
NIT Champion '57, '60, '64, '82
7-Time MVC Regular Season Champs
2-Time MVC Tourney Champs '80, '88
3-Time Little 19 Conference Champ '13, '26, '29

It's all based on perspective.


The following is based on Current Membership (teams that left...who cares)
If you want MVC all time, I pick Bradley.
If you want MVC last 50 years I pick Bradley.
If you want MVC last 25-30 years I pick Bradley, WSU, Indiana State.
If you want MVC last 10 years I pick SIU, CU.
If you want MVC last 5 years I pick SIU, CU.
If you want MVC last 2 years I pick Bradley, WSU, SIU.

One things for sure, Bradley seems to be in quite few of those list.

If we're going "All-Time", don't you have to include KU, Oklahoma State, Oscar Robertson's Cincy teams, and the others?

[DawgieStyle]

If we're going "All-Time", don't you have to include KU, Oklahoma State, Oscar Robertson's Cincy teams, and the others?

as he said, teams that are no longer in the MVC, who cares, they're gone.

[Brave2001]

as he said, teams that are no longer in the MVC, who cares, they're gone.

It's ok I must have edited it after he quoted it.

[Dawgbit]

are we talking MVC all sports programs or just MVC basketball programs, and for what length of time? What is the criteria? You could bend the stats and qualifications on this and have a case for several valley teams. Unless you define the parameters, this thread is pointless.


I posted this in the men's basketball forum, the assumption was that people would understand that I was talking about men's basketball.

As of right now, SIU is without question (in my opinion of course), the program most responsible for the stature of the MVC. Three years ago, I would have said SIU/CU, six years ago, Creighton. SIU has certainly had the most post-season success over the last six years.

[Dawgbit]

The Shockers.


I just love a dry sense of humor.

[Cdizzle]

So who is it that has been taking such unending grief over flaunting their successes? Funny how that works.

[DawgieStyle]

I posted this in the men's basketball forum, the assumption was that people would understand that I was talking about men's basketball.

As of right now, SIU is without question (in my opinion of course), the program most responsible for the stature of the MVC. Three years ago, I would have said SIU/CU, six years ago, Creighton. SIU has certainly had the most post-season success over the last six years.

I disagree, they (SIU) are only responsible for a portion of the MVC's current success. Yes, they punched the valley more into the media mainstream more than any other valley school has, along with CU. But that's a bit of luck with timing during the media and internet age. They are with out question in the last 6 years, the most recognizable team in the valley, but they had to start from some where, and the starting point was where the valley was 6 years ago.

It's not the like the valley was the worst conference in the land 6 years ago. Othe teams like BU, and SMS, and Evansville, and yes even Indiana state had all made NCAA tourney appearances prior to 2001 and at least had a hand in elevating the conf. from the cellar to at least mid pack.

And I have to agree, Bradley, has done a heck of a lot for the MVC over the years. and If I had to pick a program from the current Valley membership that has done the most IN the valley and FOR the valley over its life time, it would be Bradley.

While SIU and CU have Jumped into the lime light of the media and internet age due to their current success, they had to have a base to jump off of. That base was created by some of these other teams in the valley.

[Saluki4life]

Have to agree with Dawgie here. I just have experience with SIU from mid 90's to now. I don't little prior to all of the history before that, but SIU needed the base to let it take the steps forward and help progress the MVC ahead. Instead of argueing about the best program how about instead........wait this is the internet, mine is better and enough said. Seriously, not enough history to weigh in on this except for SIU '02 to now.
:salukis: :valley:

[salukibob]

I think Clod made up a fresh batch of that Kool-Aid for Ricky to take a swig of.

This poll is turning into a runaway. :salukis: :clap:

[WSUbballer]

I posted this in the men's basketball forum, the assumption was that people would understand that I was talking about men's basketball.

As of right now, SIU is without question (in my opinion of course), the program most responsible for the stature of the MVC. Three years ago, I would have said SIU/CU, six years ago, Creighton. SIU has certainly had the most post-season success over the last six years.

Are you trying to be like ISASO?

Congrats.

[dogdays]

BU,WSU,ISU the past 25-30 years? You are basing this on what? The fact that WSU went to a final 8 and ISU had one final four appearance ? Come on. What is the overall record of WSU, BU and ISU over the past 25 years compared to SIU or CU(conference championships, NCAA bids, NIT bits etc. WSU has one NCAA bid in 20 of those 25 years. BU has how many 5..SIU has 9 in that same period and if you go back three years from BU's 1980 apperance SIU has 10 with three Sweet 16's. Dont see how BU matches up to SIU over the past 25 to 30 years.......

ITs not close folks, at least not in the last 25. ISU had one two year period basically and thats it. Now, did they have the best team in the past 30 , maybe but certainly not the best program. There is no doubt that in the 50's BU basketball was king of the Valley along with CIncy .But Im not sure you can say this means they have the best overall program. Thats why I said the question is flawed. Now, do they have the most tradition? Arguably yes. Have they had trips to the final four ? yes 50 years ago. And thats great but is it releveant today ? Its great tradition but it doesnt mean that its the best program. Its all semantics isnt it.? It was the best program in the 50's but thats not today.

One more thing, just to be clear. IM not saying that BU and WSU didnt have a huge part in building this league in the early days and beyond, and certainly they have been proud members and had great teams through the years. I just dont think that if you look at the modern era( I know , you dont like it ) then it certainly must include SIU and CU . Again from SIU's inclusion in the Valley forward its hard to exclude them. Truly sorry for rambling. Im finished.

[numbr_9]

Dawgie, with your new avatar I am enjoying your posts more and more ...

[gosmsgo]

Still the only vote for missouri state huh?

Well they are #1 to me *******.

Stick that up your *** and grind.

:banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :bash: :bash: :bash: :doh: :doh: :original: :innocent: :innocent: :cursing: :cursing: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana:

[DawgieStyle]

Dawgie, with your new avatar I am enjoying your posts more and more ...

and to think some (matrix) don't like it....they're afraid 9-10 year olds might see it.....god the humanity.

[DoubleJayAlum]

and to think some (matrix) don't like it....they're afraid 9-10 year olds might see it.....god the humanity.

I'm not worried about little kids seeing it. I'm worried about women co-workers seeing it and making some sort of hostile work environment claim. Seriously.

[shockerfan13]

I'm not worried about little kids seeing it. I'm worried about women co-workers seeing it and making some sort of hostile work environment claim. Seriously.


So here is an idea...when you are at work, how about you.....well....work. :innocent: :grin:

[bcg]

As a Bradley fan, I'm very happy with the direction of the BU basketball program. It's a step behind SIU and Creighton, but they are building it back up. The roster is finally getting stockpiled and the revolving door of players has almost stopped.

The wheels are in motion right now for Bradley to step up. There is stability in the coaches, the donors have stepped up to start the transformation of the athletic facilities on campus and I think the Peoria area believes in this team again.

[DUShock]

SIU
CU
WSU/BU/UNI (fighting for 3-5)
Rest of the Valley 6-10

For the moment, after all there's a new Marshall in town :innocent:

Go Valley!!

Go Shocks!!!!

[DawgieStyle]

I'm not worried about little kids seeing it. I'm worried about women co-workers seeing it and making some sort of hostile work environment claim. Seriously.

if your place of work is that PC or in my opinion, that screwed up, I'd be finding some where else to work.

No work environment should feel like a prison, or court room, where you always feel like you are on trial for every little thing you do, or read, or do on the net. Heck its not even your avatar, its mine.

I understand equality in the work place and the respect that should be given to women and the obvious reasons not to incite sexual harrassment. But if the women in your office take an avatar of some other poster other than yours on a public website as hostile, then you have some screwed up people working in your office.

Tell them to take some Percaset (sp?), drink a shot, and go to a strip club and let their panties drop, because they need to learn how to have a good time.