Bradley recruiting class

[brocks]

I can apreciate the stirring of the pot, but if there's any "spinning" going on here, it's from the naysayers. To suggest that BU fans should be concerned over signing a top-100 guy in Austin and one of the best palyers in juco in Wilson is just silly.

But here's the end of the debate; Jim Les in this morning's PJS: "On paper, this is our best recruiting class by far. The future is very bright." Please note the words BY FAR. I'll take that assessment from the league's best recruiter all the way to the bank, thank you kindly.

And yes, we'll see you all on the court. :braves: :valley:

[TNMSUFAN]

Some BU fans are pretty confident about things considering you have like 100 new players. With all the new faces on all the teams in the conference it should be pretty interesting next season.

[brocks]

Some BU fans are pretty confident about things considering you have like 100 new players. With all the new faces on all the teams in the conference it should be pretty interesting next season.

But, as has been stated before, those "100 new players" make up the best JL recruiting class ever, and they join the national 3-pt-shooting leader and the league's best point guard. I'll take it!

[BUBraves55]

i can see where everyones coming from, we are getting a lot of new faces and again well be good next year but that could be the best or the very least, because we do have a bunch of new guys

[E-Ville]

I have a strong feeling the league champs are coming from somewhere in Illinois.

[BradleyBrave]

I have a strong feeling the league champs are coming from somewhere in Illinois.

Could be right. SIU brings back 3 of 5 starters and some key role players, although replacing stars like Tatum and Young will be tough. BU returns the top 2 scorers in the league, 2 key role players, and addressed some shortcomings with some good recruits. While I don't think ISU will compete for the league title, I think they could finish in the top 5 if there are no departures. As usual, I am sure CU will have something to say about it.

[TNMSUFAN]

It sounds like a great class and I am sure you guys will be good like you always are.

Just for some perspective the Bears signed #20 Wade Knapp and #64 Chris Cooks per JucoJunction's Top 150. Wichita State has #15 and #23 (if #15 still comes). Creighton has #40. Bradley #70 and #76. My point is everyone signed good players but jucos are hit and miss sometimes. Again I am sure it is great class but until they play and play together as a team I wouldn't pop off much.

[BradleyBrave]

It sounds like a great class and I am sure you guys will be good like you always are.

Just for some perspective the Bears signed #20 Wade Knapp and #64 Chris Cooks per JucoJunction's Top 150. Wichita State has #15 and #23 (if #15 still comes). Creighton has #40. Bradley #70 and #76. My point is everyone signed good players but jucos are hit and miss sometimes. Again I am sure it is great class but until they play and play together as a team I wouldn't pop off much.

Looks like the MVC did a great job of raiding the JUCO ranks for talent this year. With so many starters graduating from MVC teams this year, it's not suprising. Next year should be another great season in the MVC. Sounds like a lot of teams will be dealing with a lot of new faces.

[brocks]

It sounds like a great class and I am sure you guys will be good like you always are.

Just for some perspective the Bears signed #20 Wade Knapp and #64 Chris Cooks per JucoJunction's Top 150. Wichita State has #15 and #23 (if #15 still comes). Creighton has #40. Bradley #70 and #76. My point is everyone signed good players but jucos are hit and miss sometimes. Again I am sure it is great class but until they play and play together as a team I wouldn't pop off much.

Agree 100%. This league isn't going anywhere. I actually put less weight into jucojunction or whatever ratings and look more at size, scoring, rebounding, where they played, who was in on them etc. But by any measure, BU WSU CU SIU had nice recruiting years. Les, however, has said this was the best of his 6 classes, and although I'd never suggest that ANY Valley school should fear any other, that is pretty scary . . . because this guy can "flat out" recruit.

[TNMSUFAN]

Agree 100%. This league isn't going anywhere. I actually put less weight into jucojunction or whatever ratings and look more at size, scoring, rebounding, where they played, who was in on them etc. But by any measure, BU WSU CU SIU had nice recruiting years. Les, however, has said this was the best of his 6 classes, and although I'd never suggest that ANY Valley school should fear any other, that is pretty scary . . . because this guy can "flat out" recruit.

I would put MO State up there in the "nice recruiting year" also because our class is very good especially with the additions of Knapp and Cooks.

Like I said it sounds like you guys have a great class and we will find out how that translates into wins next Fall.

[brocks]

I would put MO State up there in the "nice recruiting year" also because our class is very good especially with the additions of Knapp and Cooks.

Like I said it sounds like you guys have a great class and we will find out how that translates into wins next Fall.


That was a mindless oversight on my part . . . clearly MSU has one of the best classes in the MVC. Sorry bout that! No disrespect! :braves: :bears:

[dakyne]

Jucos generally underperform at the div. 1 level. After all, they went to a juco for a reason. If they were really that good, but suffered poor academics in hs, then I can see how they may contribute right away. IU's two juco recruits from Chipola would be examples of that.

But the ratio of hs/juco recruits who go on to contribute is biased towards 4-year guys. Jucos usually plug into roles and can be productive, but they usually aren't go-to guys.

And if JL is the best recruiter in the MVC, what does that say about his coaching abilities? They certainly haven't been the best program in the MVC in his 6 years. Since recruiting is so iffy, I could make a counterpoint that he underdevelops his talented recruits, or he is a poor evaluator of talent.

There is evidence is he is a good recruiter, as he outrecruited SIU for POB--and Michael Rembert. Two different recruits, two totally different results.

[brocks]

I have a strong feeling the league champs are coming from somewhere in Illinois.


Agreed. And I also think the league's most improved team is coming from somewhere in Indiana! :yes:

[Hein72]

PLEASE NOTE THE WORDS "ON PAPER"! Just joking. Sounds great, the Valley is starting to pull in some big time recruits and the future is looking very bright.

[ValleyBall]

Jucos generally underperform at the div. 1 level. After all, they went to a juco for a reason. If they were really that good, but suffered poor academics in hs, then I can see how they may contribute right away. IU's two juco recruits from Chipola would be examples of that.

But the ratio of hs/juco recruits who go on to contribute is biased towards 4-year guys. Jucos usually plug into roles and can be productive, but they usually aren't go-to guys.

I would totally disagree with this statement. It seems more work out than HS players, but usually just as good role players not stars. For some reason most of the star players were HS players. I do think you are better getting mostly HS though for chemistry. I am slightly concerned Bradley is getting too many JC players. I still think they'll be good though.:yes:

[brocks]

PLEASE NOTE THE WORDS "ON PAPER"! Just joking. Sounds great, the Valley is starting to pull in some big time recruits and the future is looking very bright.

Hey! I gave WSU some props! Back off! Just joking, as you were. Five years ago the Valley wasn't signing juco imact players at will. It's very positive for the whole league.

[DawgFan]

Valley will be down next year. Too early to tell how down. My guess is Bradley will not max out at the lengths they could have if Fears and DAW were enrolled, involved and engaged in BU basketball. They're not and a lot of new pieces will have to fit real quick for this to work in the short term. In the long term, all those JC scholarships can be used again real quick. Buy a game day program in Peoria.

[brocks]

Valley will be down next year. Too early to tell how down. My guess is Bradley will not max out at the lengths they could have if Fears and DAW were enrolled, involved and engaged in BU basketball. They're not and a lot of new pieces will have to fit real quick for this to work in the short term. In the long term, all those JC scholarships can be used again real quick. Buy a game day program in Peoria.


I don't mean be TOO disrespectful, but HUHHHHH?

[MSNSaluki]

JUCO players scare me and should scare Bradley fans.
I don't remember too many great college basketball teams with a roster full of JUCOs.

[beyondthearc14]

JUCO players scare me and should scare Bradley fans.
I don't remember too many great college basketball teams with a roster full of JUCOs.

The sweet 16 team in 2005-2006 had 4 Juco players.This team has 5
Juco players on it.Bradley still has eight 4 year players on its current roster.
The juco people that we are landing now are more highly regarded than
the players we landed several years ago.I see no probelm with the current
recruiting stituation.Maybe SIU should worry about replacing Tatum and
Young.

[BeeLine]

In looking at 2 of the more respected juco ratings sites Juco Junction and Van Colemans, the Valley indeed has made a haul. And some of the thought to be pretty good prospects aren't even listed. But for now:

Sampay WSU JJ #15, VC #37
Knapp MSU JJ #20, VC #41
Clemente WSU JJ #23, VC # 65
Cole-Scott BU JJ NR, VC # 29
Woodfox CU JJ #48, VC #30
Cooks MSU JJ # 64, VC NR
Wilson BU , JJ # 70, VC NR
Collins BU, JJ # 76, VC #43
Hollaway ISU JJ # 119, VC NR
Culver UNI JJ NR , VC # 100

[LincolnJay]

Did Sampay sign with WSU?!

PS - Y'know, I had a jucojunction membership for a couple months and I never did find where they had a Top 100 page!!

[iSASO]

He's taking a vacation, I mean recruiting visit, to U. of Hawaii this week. Who can blame him?

[BradleyBrave]

In looking at 2 of the more respected juco ratings sites Juco Junction and Van Colemans, the Valley indeed has made a haul. And some of the thought to be pretty good prospects aren't even listed. But for now:

Sampay WSU JJ #15, VC #37
Knapp MSU JJ #20, VC #41
Clemente WSU JJ #23, VC # 65
Cole-Scott BU JJ NR, VC # 29
Woodfox CU JJ #48, VC #30
Cooks MSU JJ # 64, VC NR
Wilson BU , JJ # 70, VC NR
Collins BU, JJ # 76, VC #43
Hollaway ISU JJ # 119, VC NR
Culver UNI JJ NR , VC # 100

You forgot about BU signee Rashad Austin, a 3-star recruit on Rivals.com. He's unrated on JJ (which hasn't updated their ratings since November), and I don't know what he's rated on Van Coleman's.

[BradleyBrave]

JUCO players scare me and should scare Bradley fans.
I don't remember too many great college basketball teams with a roster full of JUCOs.

BU went to the Sweet 16 with 5 JUCO's - Sommerville, Bennett, Wright, Andrews, and Franklin.

BU has 8 four year players on the roster next year (Ruffin, Crouch, Warren, Brown, Singh, Maniscalco, Egolf, Thompson)

Teams with JUCO's can win, and BU doesn't have a roster full of JUCO's.

:braves:

[MSNSaluki]

BU went to the Sweet 16 with 5 JUCO's - Sommerville, Bennett, Wright, Andrews, and Franklin.

BU has 8 four year players on the roster next year (Ruffin, Crouch, Warren, Brown, Singh, Maniscalco, Egolf, Thompson)

Teams with JUCO's can win, and BU doesn't have a roster full of JUCO's.

:braves:

Not to be contrary, but I think I said I don't remember many GREAT college basketball teams with a roster full of JUCOs. I was actually talking about Final Four or national championship teams.

That being said, I hope it works out for Bradley. Sometimes, it's not easy for a bunch of new guys to a program to mesh with one another. That's all I'm saying.:braves:

[BeeLine]

I didn't forget Austin, he wasn't ranked, as I noted not every recruit was. Players who were originally ranked by someone like Rivals, tend to stay that way; however, the juco rankings kind of start fresh with what they do at that level. But as with all systems, there are some obvious differences as you see in the two ratings and the fact some aren't listed in both and some players well regarded don't even get mentioned.
I think one thing the "short term " player profile has resulted in at Bradley is that while they have been talented, they've also been inconsistent , especially early in the conference season, hense they made the sweet 16, but haven't finished above 4th in the conference race. Now I'd take the sweet 16 run in a heart beat, but it is a roller coaster type ride when you are constatntly trying to assimilate that many faces. And again jucos usually take a half year to get it going , yet most come in with the expectation to be playing quickly because of their small window of opportunity; so if you are going to keep them happy and you have several on the roster, you are probably going to be inconsistent . Missouri State has done both routes, Spoon lived off the juco system and Alford used it well for a brief run, but it also contributed to the shortage in talent across multiple classes when Hinson first took over. I like the approach of 1-2 to supplement a solid core of 4 year kids developed in your own system.

[Canevision]

I didn't forget Austin, he wasn't ranked, as I noted not every recruit was. Players who were originally ranked by someone like Rivals, tend to stay that way; however, the juco rankings kind of start fresh with what they do at that level. But as with all systems, there are some obvious differences as you see in the two ratings and the fact some aren't listed in both and some players well regarded don't even get mentioned.


Exactly. A recruit for MSU a few years back (Ryan Boyd) didn't get in for grades, went to JUCO, wasn't a hard worker, and ended up at Texas Pan-american or some such school this year with only two offers.

He's still listed as three stars on Rivals, and it is easy to see, he is no longer considered a three star prospect.

[MikeKennedyRulz]

Did Sampay sign with WSU?!

PS - Y'know, I had a jucojunction membership for a couple months and I never did find where they had a Top 100 page!!

He committed before Turgeon left, now he is saying he wants to wait until the end of the signing period to make a decision. Marshall has met with him and I suspect Jans has met with him as well. We will wait and see what happens. Clemente said he has spoken with Sampay and has said he told Brandon that he should come to WSU, FWIW.

[DawgFan]

brocks..don't worry all is fine at BU. The braves may be the preseason favorites. And huh, is usually how I react to your homer posts.

[brocks]

brocks..don't worry all is fine at BU. The braves may be the preseason favorites. And huh, is usually how I react to your homer posts.

You are quite the articulate spokesperson, and a grammarian to boot! But thanks for the props about BU; I agree. (P.S. That thing with the dot over the comma is called a semi-colon.) :chair: :chair:

[tBU]

I didn't forget Austin, he wasn't ranked, as I noted not every recruit was. Players who were originally ranked by someone like Rivals, tend to stay that way; however, the juco rankings kind of start fresh with what they do at that level. But as with all systems, there are some obvious differences as you see in the two ratings and the fact some aren't listed in both and some players well regarded don't even get mentioned.
I think one thing the "short term " player profile has resulted in at Bradley is that while they have been talented, they've also been inconsistent , especially early in the conference season, hense they made the sweet 16, but haven't finished above 4th in the conference race. Now I'd take the sweet 16 run in a heart beat, but it is a roller coaster type ride when you are constatntly trying to assimilate that many faces. And again jucos usually take a half year to get it going , yet most come in with the expectation to be playing quickly because of their small window of opportunity; so if you are going to keep them happy and you have several on the roster, you are probably going to be inconsistent . Missouri State has done both routes, Spoon lived off the juco system and Alford used it well for a brief run, but it also contributed to the shortage in talent across multiple classes when Hinson first took over. I like the approach of 1-2 to supplement a solid core of 4 year kids developed in your own system.

BU has been "inconsistent" because JL was learning and growing as a coach. He has finally got his players, his system a good caoching staff and he has made tremendous strides as a coach.

His early years were not real good for a variety of reasons with the most obvious was he wasn't ready. Throw in a Gibert injury and a unhappy Granger and it was worse then it looked but it was what it was.

SIU and CU have had Jucos...they have also got the best coach in the Valley in DA and the best system at SIU. Its NOT Juco's that have kept BU from overtaking SIU and CU its those things mentioned above. I STILL look for SIU and CU to be favorites but if there was ever a time for a team to jump over one or both it is now and BU is certainly one that has that chance.

[DawgFan]

brocks look up homer fan in the dictionary sometime.

[TNMSUFAN]

CU will always be one of the favorites but they probably lose more than anyone else with Funk, Toliver, and Porter. It will be very interesting to see the pre-season poll next year because several teams lose some very good players.

[brocks]

brocks look up homer fan in the dictionary sometime.


Okay, I just looked up "homer fan" in the dictionary. Guess what! There's no such term in the dictionary! Are you sure you want to continue down this path? Your posts are virtually unitelligible. If you look up "unintelligible," you'll think I'm being unkind. But then, after you look up "virtually," you'll see that I'm being charitable. Oops, do you know what "charitable" means?

[Canevision]

Ahhhh....only on VT can a thread turn into an intelligence litmus test...

[brocks]

Ahhhh....only on VT can a thread turn into an intelligence litmus test...

I probably sound like a jerk, but my initial point was just that I had no idea what he was talking about. He chose not to clarify. Believe it or not, I read these posts because I'd like to ACTUALLY KNOW what people think. It's a little frustrating when you can't tell. But I'll relent.

[DawgFan]

Likely an intelligence test is not where brocks wants to take this anyways. Good luck to the Braves, teams filled with JC players are fun to watch. Boogie and ZA were a ton of fun.

[brocks]

Likely an intelligence test is not where brocks wants to take this anyways. Good luck to the Braves, teams filled with JC players are fun to watch. Boogie and ZA were a ton of fun.

Once again not sure what you mean, but I apologize for being a jerk. What do you really think about BU?

[DawgFan]

I think BU had a chance to be better if Fears and DAW were enrolled, bought into the system and given a chance to play with Crouch and Ruff for a year.

I don't know a whole bunch about the JC's. I wouldn't expect much from the high school bigs in year one. Then you are without Crouch and Ruff in year two. Bradley was my pre season pick with Fears and DAW. The MVC will be down next year, maybe way down. I don't know if Bradley is the favorite after the moves announced in the last two weeks.

[brocks]

I think BU had a chance to be better if Fears and DAW were enrolled, bought into the system and given a chance to play with Crouch and Ruff for a year.

I don't know a whole bunch about the JC's. I wouldn't expect much from the high school bigs in year one. Then you are without Crouch and Ruff in year two. Bradley was my pre season pick with Fears and DAW. The MVC will be down next year, maybe way down. I don't know if Bradley is the favorite after the moves announced in the last two weeks.

I would have liked to see those two at BU, but the more I read about Austin and Wilson, the more I think this magician Les has actually upgraded. I know non-BU fans don't spend all their time researching BU recruits, but those of us who google these dudes get more impressed the more we read.