Here's how we achieve Major status

[E-Ville]

Let's go all out and add 4 teams.

St. Louis
Xavier
Butler
Western Kentucky

This way you add 3 major markets (St. Louis, Indianapolis, Cincinnati) and a medium market with high fan loyaly in Western Kentucky.

The Valley already has a tight knit community. What I mean by that is, I am interested in watching other valley teams play that dont involve Evansville. So, I am saying the Indy, Cincy, and STL markets will start watching more Creighton and Wichita games and vice-versa.

RATINGS WOULD GO THROUGH THE ROOF! ESPN would pick up more games, FSN would pick up more games. ABC and CBS would occasionally pick up games between ranked opponents

We would have a large network of good sized cities all based in the midwest interested in how the league is being played out, thus giving us better ratings and more publicity.

The more quality teams we have in the league the better shot we have at getting somebody in the Final Four or even producing National Champions. Our respect throughout all of college basketball will be earned by that point.

If we really want to be the renaissance conference, we need to capitalize on our momentum now. Imagine all the cities, it would be like our own little pro league.

St. Louis, Cincinnati, Indianapolis, Omaha, Wichita, Des Moines, Peoria, Evansville, Bowling Green, and all the other programs have large regional followings.

That's how we become the renaissance conference. That's how we achieve Major status.

[DUBulldog]

Western Kentucky just made the move to 1-A in football, so they're out.

Adding teams in bigger cities does not necessarily lead to an increase in exposure/TV time. Look at the Horizon....they've got teams in huge metros, but struggle to get any exposure.

[jaypharmalum]

Let's go all out and add 4 teams.

St. Louis
Xavier
Butler
Western Kentucky

This way you add 3 major markets (St. Louis, Indianapolis, Cincinnati) and a medium market with high fan loyaly in Western Kentucky.

The Valley already has a tight knit community. What I mean by that is, I am interested in watching other valley teams play that dont involve Evansville. So, I am saying the Indy, Cincy, and STL markets will start watching more Creighton and Wichita games and vice-versa.

RATINGS WOULD GO THROUGH THE ROOF! ESPN would pick up more games, FSN would pick up more games. ABC and CBS would occasionally pick up games between ranked opponents

We would have a large network of good sized cities all based in the midwest interested in how the league is being played out, thus giving us better ratings and more publicity.

The more quality teams we have in the league the better shot we have at getting somebody in the Final Four or even producing National Champions. Our respect throughout all of college basketball will be earned by that point.

If we really want to be the renaissance conference, we need to capitalize on our momentum now. Imagine all the cities, it would be like our own little pro league.

St. Louis, Cincinnati, Indianapolis, Omaha, Wichita, Des Moines, Peoria, Evansville, Bowling Green, and all the other programs have large regional followings.

That's how we become the renaissance conference. That's how we achieve Major status.

Now if we could just get Iowa, Iowa State, Indiana, Illinois, and Missouri too - we would definitely be considered a "major". Hate to say it, but adding teams isn't going to make us any more of a major than we already are... the real basketball mind and BCS coaches all know what the MVC is and the dicussion nationally is how great a conference we are.

I, for one, do not think adding an 11th, 12th,... team help us. If you want to talk about replacing one of the MVC teams (hint, hint) with SLU, I might be open to the idea.

[goaces]

No teams need to be droped from the Valley. I do think the addition of SLU is a strong possibility. If the Bilikins would join, I would be curious if Xavier would consider. Over any of these schools I'd love to have Butler. Many of there fans believe that if they want to continue to improve they will have to change conferences. Hard to imagine, however, since things have gone so well for the Bulldogs. :valley: :aces: :valley:

[Majik45]

Interesting article about adding SLU to the Valley in the Peoria paper this morning:

http://pjstar.com/stories/042707/KIR_BD23QDLK.073.php

[Aegyptus]

Not a bad idea. I am sure that is what SLU would love. But ...

1. No way on Western Kentucky. DUBulldog is right with the football stuff plus they are out of the Valley's footprint and Bowling Green is not really a market I am interested in.

2. All of those teams you mentioned are in the east of the Valley's current region. I am not sure Creighton and Wichita would be that pleased with eastward expansion.

3. How would ratings go through the roof with SLU, Butler, and Xavier? Just because people live in cities does not mean they will watch. Each of those cities has football and Indy has pro basketball. There are a lot of other things to take people's minds off college hoops. Plus, Cincinnati is already in town and is a member of the Big East. It would help ratings, no doubt, and more games would get picked up, but it would not be like we were competing with Big Ten for airtime.

4. Xavier is going to want to stay in the same conference as Dayton in all likelihood so that they at least have 1 close rival. If they join the Valley their nearest rival would be Butler or Evansville. Also, Xavier has a little of the Memphis thing going on right now. Xavier can pretty much win the A-10 every year, so why move?

So, in all likelihood Xavier and Western Kentucky are not coming. That leaves us with SLU and Butler, both of which are real possibilities - thus the serious nature of the conversation on the Majerus thread.

But, that does not mean your thesis is wrong. If you want 14 teams in major media outlets, come up with some other choices ...

[DawgieStyle]

unless you're in the big least in Today's landscape, you need big time I-A football to be considered a high major conference. Seeing as some Valley schools don't even have football, I'd say the chances of the MVC ever becoming a true high major conference no matter how many teams you add are slim to none, and slim just left town.

You find a way for the MVC schools to add multi million dollar generating football progams to their atheletic departments and we can start to have this discussion, other wise we're waisting our time.

[DUBulldog]

Interesting article about adding SLU to the Valley in the Peoria paper this morning:

http://pjstar.com/stories/042707/KIR_BD23QDLK.073.php

Good article....thanks for sharing that.

[yeager]

Anybody hear of Conf. USA.....lots of teams doesn't always equal good.

[goaces]

Interesting article about adding SLU to the Valley in the Peoria paper this morning:

http://pjstar.com/stories/042707/KIR_BD23QDLK.073.php
Great article, thanks for sharing. I especially enjoyed the writer's point when he said that Valley president's and AD's don't need a "one night stand" with SLU. I can't agree more. Fr. Biondi. president of SLU, is one popmpous individual, and he would need to know that it would be a privilege for him to join our conference

[goaces]

[QUOTE=Aegyptus]Not a bad idea. I am sure that is what SLU would love. But ...

1. No way on Western Kentucky. DUBulldog is right with the football stuff plus they are out of the Valley's footprint and Bowling Green is not really a market I am interested in.

Before WKY moved up in football, Doug Elgin was heavily interested in them, and for good reason. :valley:

[Shox21]

You find a way for the MVC schools to add multi million dollar generating football progams to their atheletic departments and we can start to have this discussion, other wise we're waisting our time.

It was my impression that MOST football programs LOST money, not made money for their schools.

[AcePurpleFan]

What exactly does SLU bring to the table? Sure, they have a marginal (at best) basketball team and apparently a decent soccer team (who cares). They have no football, they're baseball is terrible, and that's about it. Why is everyone rolling over to add SLU besides the potential market. I think the Article did a good job of explaining we already have that market. If the Valley wants to get serious about expansion talks, let's talk about Butler (although they might fall from grace now that Lickliter left) and/or an Xavier.

[SubGod22]

I agree with AcePurpleFan. I've never been high on SLU and think if we were to expand we could do better.

[Mick Taylor]

If the Valley wants to get serious about expansion talks, let's talk about Butler (although they might fall from grace now that Lickliter left) and/or an Xavier.

I would ask why the fascination over Butler? It's basically Drake at Indianapolis.

Unlike SLU, getting Butler isn't going to "win over" the Indy market for the Missouri Valley Conference, that's delusional in the extreme. Despite its success, Butler can't even make Indy its own market.

It gets a paucity of media coverage in Indy, even with its successful run this season, even by the standards of the Valley media outlets. The Star does not have a full-time Butler beat writer ... David Woods fills in when needed and is dropped from Butler at the drop of a hat. The TV stations aren't much better.

Hinkle Fieldhouse is awesome, no doubt. It's also at least half-empty most of the time. No one in Indy cares unless Butler is doing something super spectacular. The Colts are the kings of Indy and even with their problems of recent seasons FAR more people care about the Pacers than Butler, which is viewed as the cute little story coming out of Hinkle Fieldhouse, but nothing more. The day I see more than three people wearing a Butler sweatshirt around Indy will be my first and I lived in Indy for a decade.

It's a small school. It recruits well for its system, but Butler is not up for the same caliber of players that Valley schools vie for (Butler does compete with Indiana State and Evansville for recruits, which should tell you something about its Valley prospects). It doesn't have the donor base one might think.

In other words, you can't equate Butler with Creighton, Bradley or even SLU. The Horizon, a league of second-bananas in their towns and orphaned too-big-for-the-Mid-Con public schools, is a perfect fit for Butler. The Valley is not.

Butler re-joining the Valley (they were briefly in the conference in the 30s) would not help the conference one bit.

[CURx]

It would be great to add those teams to the conference but it doesn't make sense geographically. The conference would have to be split East and West and those four would all have to be put out East. So then I ask what is the point? That essentially leaves MSU, WSU, Creighton, UNI, Drake, SIU, Ill.St in the West and really nothing different from the conference that we have now except that they wouldn't play Evansvill, Ind. St., or Bradley for a home or away per year and we would just add SLU, Butler, X, and whomever. In the end, why wouldn't those 4 schools just try to start their own conference and snake a few Eastern teams from the Valley?

[AcePurpleFan]

I would ask why the fascination over Butler? It's basically Drake at Indianapolis.

Unlike SLU, getting Butler isn't going to "win over" the Indy market for the Missouri Valley Conference, that's delusional in the extreme. Despite its success, Butler can't even make Indy its own market.

It gets a paucity of media coverage in Indy, even with its successful run this season, even by the standards of the Valley media outlets. The Star does not have a full-time Butler beat writer ... David Woods fills in when needed and is dropped from Butler at the drop of a hat. The TV stations aren't much better.

Hinkle Fieldhouse is awesome, no doubt. It's also at least half-empty most of the time. No one in Indy cares unless Butler is doing something super spectacular. The Colts are the kings of Indy and even with their problems of recent seasons FAR more people care about the Pacers than Butler, which is viewed as the cute little story coming out of Hinkle Fieldhouse, but nothing more. The day I see more than three people wearing a Butler sweatshirt around Indy will be my first and I lived in Indy for a decade.

It's a small school. It recruits well for its system, but Butler is not up for the same caliber of players that Valley schools vie for (Butler does compete with Indiana State and Evansville for recruits, which should tell you something about its Valley prospects). It doesn't have the donor base one might think.

In other words, you can't equate Butler with Creighton, Bradley or even SLU. The Horizon, a league of second-bananas in their towns and orphaned too-big-for-the-Mid-Con public schools, is a perfect fit for Butler. The Valley is not.

Butler re-joining the Valley (they were briefly in the conference in the 30s) would not help the conference one bit.


I think you missed the point of my post. The main point was saying SLU doesn't bring much to the table. And if we are going to kick around dumb ideas (i.e. letting SLU in the Valley) why not look at some teams who have actually competed in basketball in recent years.

I totally disagree with your assertion that Butler can't compete with the Valley. Butler and SIU (the best team for some time in the Valley) played one great game this year! If by saying Butler can't equate to teams like Bradley or SLU because Butler would've destroyed them, your right.

Lose your arrogance that the Valley is now the Big 10 and too good for decent mid-major schools. That's the same type of arrogance the Valley constantly fights with the so-called "major" conferences. Butler has been a very good basketball team for some time now. Being ranked in the Top 10 is pretty good in my book. Saying they are another "Drake", that's absurd!

[Aegyptus]

I would ask why the fascination over Butler? It's basically Drake at Indianapolis.

What is wrong with Drake? I think everyone knows Butler's limitations, but it does bring a market and a good basketball program.

No doubt Butler is not the best choice. It is not even as good of choice as SLU is. But, who else would be the 12th? Xavier?

X is 200 miles from the nearest Valley school. Even if we were to go to 14, it is still 100 miles from Indy if we add Butler. I think it is this simple with Xavier: Dayton has to come too. If they do not, no deal.

Targeting those 3 (SLU, X, Dayton) from the A-10 would not be that bad of a deal, but you would need a 14th (Butler, Tulsa, others??) and then you would have to do an east and west kind of deal. Plus, adding three Catholic schools like that, you run the risk of them breaking off in the near future and taking Creighton with them, so in my mind, the 14th needs to be a large public school to keep the Valley at 10 if the Catholics break off eventually. That is why UIC or Wisconsin-Milwaukee or (gasp) IUPUI would make a lot of sense. Each of those also brings the market and decent academics (okay, except IUPUI).

I guess you could add all 6 of those (or supplement Butler for IUPUI or a different western school like Tulsa) and go to 16 with divisions of 8. You would play the round robin within the division and then each out of division team once for a 22 game conference schedule. That would work and still accomplish the goals. Talk about a consolidation of the best mid-majors. Think of all the other ticked off conferences. I sort of like that idea actually just because it would decimate many other mid-major conferences.

But, it is very unrealistic. What's realistic at this point is this: Majerus is hired by SLU and they start negotiations with the Valley. 3 years from now, they join the Valley for an 11 team league. 4-5 years later, the Valley looks for a 12th. If Butler is still good at that point, then we consider them. But, maybe another school is more attractive at that point. Slow, steady growth is much, much more likely. But, it will not accomplish E-Ville's goal of making the Valley a major conference.

[DawgieStyle]

why is this even a topic.....the valley isn't expanding. So what if SLU "wants" to join the MVC, who says the league wants them.

Its like saying I "want" to play for the Chicago Bulls, but they sure as heck don't "want" me. So thats never gonna happen, same with the MVC expanding.

In the last month alone there have been like 5-6 threads on this topic, which is never going to happen, shouldn't happen, and doesn't NEED! to happen. Can we drop it. What's wrong with you people, isn't the valley good enough just the way it is?

[tBU]

I totally disagree with your assertion that Butler can't compete with the Valley. Butler and SIU (the best team for some time in the Valley) played one great game this year! If by saying Butler can't equate to teams like Bradley or SLU because Butler would've destroyed them, your right.

Lose your arrogance that the Valley is now the Big 10 and too good for decent mid-major schools. That's the same type of arrogance the Valley constantly fights with the so-called "major" conferences. Butler has been a very good basketball team for some time now. Being ranked in the Top 10 is pretty good in my book. Saying they are another "Drake", that's absurd!

Butler would have "deystroyed" BU....not sure but didn't Butler lose to every MVC team it played this year? The same ones that BU beat at LEAST once and twice in other instances?

And I think what he means by Butler being like Drake (love the Drake) is they play second fiddle to the big boys in the same state.

Butler is a fine program...they have been hot for awhile. Hoops is cyclical though and is Butler still attractive during those lean years....just asking.

[DawgieStyle]

And I think what he means by Butler being like Drake (love the Drake) is they play second fiddle to the big boys in the same state.

What valley school doesn't.

[Aegyptus]

why is this even a topic.....the valley isn't expanding. So what if SLU "wants" to join the MVC, who says the league wants them.

Its like saying I "want" to play for the Chicago Bulls, but they sure as heck don't "want" me. So thats never gonna happen, same with the MVC expanding.

In the last month alone there have been like 5-6 threads on this topic, which is never going to happen, shouldn't happen, and doesn't NEED! to happen. Can we drop it. What's wrong with you people, isn't the valley good enough just the way it is?


"Isn't the Valley good enough just the way it is?"

Answer from the Selection Committee = NO.

Answer from ESPN/FSN = NO.

Answer from Valley schools capable of spending only $150,000 on a coach = NO.

Answer from coaches and AD's trying to schedule opponents = NO.

Answer from Doug Elgin = NO.

The answer to your question is NO, IT IS NOT GOOD ENOUGH!

An SIU fan of all people should not be satisfied. SIU is dropping in enrollment, just paid a coach money that they do not have yet, wants to build a new football stadium and redo the basketball arena, can't fill the arena on most nights the way it is, can't get a decent team to play us, etc. Yes, we got a 4 seed. Good for us. But, if we were in a better conference would we have got a 3 seed.

As good as the Missouri Valley is, it still has many, many limitations. Also, the Valley is probably down next year ... are we a one bid conference again? Maybe. Maybe we were a 1 bid conference last year if Creighton does not win the tourney.

Read the Peoria article. Five years ago we were not a great conference. Who is to say that five years from now we are not back where we were then? We are not that far away from where we were then then. We have to take advantage of the success we have had in the recent past to ensure success in the future. This is like a business, you either get big or get out of the way.

[yeager]

Why is it some of you think that we are too good for SLU....some of you turn your noses to SLU...and that is absurd.....if they did come in and if RM was the coach, SLU would be in the top 4 year in and year out.

[DawgieStyle]

"Isn't the Valley good enough just the way it is?"

Answer from the Selection Committee = NO.

Answer from ESPN/FSN = NO.

Answer from Valley schools capable of spending only $150,000 on a coach = NO.

Answer from coaches and AD's trying to schedule opponents = NO.

Answer from Doug Elgin = NO.

The answer to your question is NO, IT IS NOT GOOD ENOUGH!

An SIU fan of all people should not be satisfied. SIU is dropping in enrollment, just paid a coach money that they do not have yet, wants to build a new football stadium and redo the basketball arena, can't fill the arena on most nights the way it is, can't get a decent team to play us, etc. Yes, we got a 4 seed. Good for us. But, if we were in a better conference would we have got a 3 seed.

As good as the Missouri Valley is, it still has many, many limitations. Also, the Valley is probably down next year ... are we a one bid conference again? Maybe. Maybe we were a 1 bid conference last year if Creighton does not win the tourney.

Read the Peoria article. Five years ago we were not a great conference. Who is to say that five years from now we are not back where we were then? We are not that far away from where we were then then. We have to take advantage of the success we have had in the recent past to ensure success in the future. This is like a business, you either get big or get out of the way.

my point wasn't that the valley had peaked and couldn't improve, my point was that adding another member wouldn't help us. It's dumb.

The current valley arrangment is good enough just the way it is! That's my point. Adding or dropping teams isn't going to improve the conference, winning improves it. That's it. Bottom line. WIN!

[AcePurpleFan]

Butler would have "deystroyed" BU....not sure but didn't Butler lose to every MVC team it played this year? The same ones that BU beat at LEAST once and twice in other instances?

And I think what he means by Butler being like Drake (love the Drake) is they play second fiddle to the big boys in the same state.

Butler is a fine program...they have been hot for awhile. Hoops is cyclical though and is Butler still attractive during those lean years....just asking.


Butler got beat by Indiana State (a fluke) and SIU; they beat Evansville. So with the exception of Indiana State, Bradley did not beat any Valley teams that also beat Butler. Plus that's a stupid argument anyway. Evansville beat MSU and MSU beat Wisconsin. Does that mean Evansville is better than Wisconsin b/c ALL the Valley teams (MSU) that played Wisconsin beat them and some other Valley teams beat MSU?

No.

[goaces]

[QUOTE=Mick Taylor]I wofascination over Butler? It's basically Drake at Indianapolis.


Butler had a nonconference rpi of 15 last season. Ratings that high clinch NCAA births. That,of course, increases revenues for conferences.
Butler would essentialy guarantee no less that 3 NCAA bids a year for the Valley.

While IU and Purdue will always dominate the city of Indianapolis, an affliation with the MVC would in all likelihood draw much bigger crowds.

Butler historically has drawn well at UE and ISU. They would probably draw higher at other venues as well.

(You don't need to disrespect great universities like Drake in order to make your points) :valley:

[DUBulldog]

Butler had a nonconference rpi of 15 last season. Ratings that high clinch NCAA births. That,of course, increases revenues for conferences.
Butler would essentialy guarantee no less that 3 NCAA bids a year for the Valley.

(You don't need to disrespect great universities like Drake in order to make your points) :valley:

I disagree that Butler would guarantee the MVC 3 bids per season, as I don't think you can expect them to post a top-15 non-con RPI every year. I think they're a good program, but I'm not sure they'll be able to maintain the level of play they've achieved in the last few years. I see them as being very, very similar to most MVC schools in prestige; not as some kind of school that's immediately going to give the MVC "star power".

As for his quote about Drake.....I didn't take that as a slam against Drake. I think it's actually a valid comparison. Drake is #3 or #4 in coverage by the Des Moines media and Butler is probably #3 at best at Indy.

[ISUBob]

Western Kentucky just made the move to 1-A in football, so they're out.

Adding teams in bigger cities does not necessarily lead to an increase in exposure/TV time. Look at the Horizon....they've got teams in huge metros, but struggle to get any exposure.

I agree. I live in the Dallas Ft. Worth area, ans TCU and SMU do not draw for crap.

[OilerPimp]

Butler got beat by Indiana State (a fluke) and SIU; they beat Evansville. So with the exception of Indiana State, Bradley did not beat any Valley teams that also beat Butler. Plus that's a stupid argument anyway.


We beat SIU this past year. We could have (mabye should have) beat them in St. Louis.

[squirrel]

I agree that expansion for expansion's sake is not the answer. The MVC's last couple years of success were built on our 10 members being closer top to bottom, than other larger "super" conferences.

I also don't think Xavier leaves Dayton, however, I would think ANY A10 team would listen seriously to an MVC offer. I'm a big thinker, so this may seem like an impossible idea: I know the drawbacks to distance, but with Temple in the MAC for football, the prospect of more midwest recognition could be somewhat enticing. As the most powerful member of the A10, I think they would be able to remain in the A10 for the "olympic" sports. Their basketball budget would not be drastically affected by a move to the MVC. I say at least send out feelers to Temple and Xavier. Add one of those to an "east" division and SLU to a "west".

The MVC offers 7-15K arenas at near capacity. The A10 3-5K arenas at 60% capacity.

As much as I like Butler and Hinkle, I don't think it meets Valley standards for capacity. But I'm picky.

As far as WKU goes, they are committed to moving to DI-A for football in the Sun Belt, so I don't think they would leave unless the Gateway members all committed themselves to making the same move.

Unless you can bring in an Xavier or Temple along with SLU, I don't want to seen an increase in members.

The league continues to redefine itself and astound its critics, so I think we could steal a marquee member or two. But I think the concern over losing what we've built our greatness on is a legitimate one. I do not want to see SLU join unless they are accompanied by someone else worthy.

[SycEm]

I would ask why the fascination over Butler? It's basically Drake at Indianapolis.

Unlike SLU, getting Butler isn't going to "win over" the Indy market for the Missouri Valley Conference, that's delusional in the extreme. Despite its success, Butler can't even make Indy its own market.

It gets a paucity of media coverage in Indy, even with its successful run this season, even by the standards of the Valley media outlets. The Star does not have a full-time Butler beat writer ... David Woods fills in when needed and is dropped from Butler at the drop of a hat. The TV stations aren't much better.

Hinkle Fieldhouse is awesome, no doubt. It's also at least half-empty most of the time. No one in Indy cares unless Butler is doing something super spectacular. The Colts are the kings of Indy and even with their problems of recent seasons FAR more people care about the Pacers than Butler, which is viewed as the cute little story coming out of Hinkle Fieldhouse, but nothing more. The day I see more than three people wearing a Butler sweatshirt around Indy will be my first and I lived in Indy for a decade.

It's a small school. It recruits well for its system, but Butler is not up for the same caliber of players that Valley schools vie for (Butler does compete with Indiana State and Evansville for recruits, which should tell you something about its Valley prospects). It doesn't have the donor base one might think.

In other words, you can't equate Butler with Creighton, Bradley or even SLU. The Horizon, a league of second-bananas in their towns and orphaned too-big-for-the-Mid-Con public schools, is a perfect fit for Butler. The Valley is not.

Butler re-joining the Valley (they were briefly in the conference in the 30s) would not help the conference one bit.

Sounds like SLU should join the Horizon League. If you simply change the Indianapolis references to St. Louis references you wouldn't know if this was about Butler or SLU.

[Aegyptus]

Welcome squirrel. You need a cool avatar to go with that name.

Here is a nice one:

http://www.beekslayers.org/squirrel.jpg

However, your point about Temple is a little crazy. They are way out of the Valley's region in Philly and they are not going to leave the A-10 because they are basically a founding member and there are 2 other A-10 schools in Philly they would probably not want to leave.

[SubGod22]

I still don't think SLU would really add/bring much to the Valley. I'm looking to be convinced and it's not happening. The only plus for it I've seen so far is the possible move of the Tourny to KC if it happened.

[Aegyptus]

I still don't think SLU would really add/bring much to the Valley. I'm looking to be convinced and it's not happening. The only plus for it I've seen so far is the possible move of the Tourny to KC if it happened.

Rick Majerus with a new arena ... what else do you want?

Seriously, compare them to the Valley schools. Can you honestly tell me that you do not consider SLU a better academic and athletic institution than at least 1/2 of those? If you don't, you need to be better informed about SLU (wikipedia) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Louis_University) because although they are arrogant to a fault they are a good school and would be a good addition to the Valley.

[TNMSUFAN]

Well, ESPN says it's a done deal
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=2851583

[MylesKnight]

Let me add to the discussion if I may....

If we're talking getting the Valley into large midwestern markets without current members, then what about the largest market of all, Chicago.

Would either Loyola or UIC fit the bill for the Valley? Why/why not?


As far as other ideas beyond SLU, Butler, and possibly Xavier (WKU is out of the question due to Football, as has been mentioned), there are not a ton of choices out there that fit geographically.

Maybe Dayton, but definitely not by themselves though. They wouldn't leave the A-10 without Xavier of course.

Oral Roberts would be happy to get a call, but they aren't at the top of the list.

And what about up north, with NDSU and SDSU? Give them a few more years of D-I Recruiting and would they be ready for the Valley? Facilities and Fan Support are there for both schools.

[MSNSaluki]

I would ask why the fascination over Butler? It's basically Drake at Indianapolis.

You're joking, right?
Look up Butler's overall record since 2000. There's two Sweet 16s and a bunch of other NCAA trips. I like to think SIU is the best mid-major program in the nation but you can make a pretty good case for Butler, too.
Butler would be a sweet-assed addition to the Valley.

[SubGod22]

I don't care what they bring as far as academics go. But I don't think thier athletics as a whole would add a lot. Maybe basketball would change with RM. That's no guarantee though. How long has it been since he's coached? How long would he hang around? I'm still not sold.

We don't need to expand and SLU isn't a must have. I don't think it's a school that we'd have to kick ourselves over if we didn't have them.

[BearsCountry]

And what about up north, with NDSU and SDSU? Give them a few more years of D-I Recruiting and would they be ready for the Valley? Facilities and Fan Support are there for both schools.

5 to 10 years in the Mid-Con and they would be ready. Only knock on them is their media market but they are more like Valley teams than alot of other choices. Like most Valley schools, they are the "team" in their market.

[goaces]

You're joking, right?
Look up Butler's overall record since 2000. There's two Sweet 16s and a bunch of other NCAA trips. I like to think SIU is the best mid-major program in the nation but you can make a pretty good case for Butler, too.
Butler would be a sweet-assed addition to the Valley.


MSN don't worry about Mick. After reading some of his other posts I get the idea he lives under a rock. His remarks about Butler at least inform other posters the mentality they are dealing with. :valley: :salukis: :aces:

[MSNSaluki]

MSN don't worry about Mick. After reading some of his other posts I get the idea he lives under a rock. His remarks about Butler at least inform other posters the mentality they are dealing with. :valley: :salukis: :aces:

I think Butler slips under the radar.
Before we played the Bulldogs this year some of my fellow SIU fans on Saluki Talk were ripping them as nobodies. Mick has company.
Butler is good.

[DUBulldog]

MSN don't worry about Mick. After reading some of his other posts I get the idea he lives under a rock. His remarks about Butler at least inform other posters the mentality they are dealing with. :valley: :salukis: :aces:

I think you are misinterpreting his remarks about Butler....it didn't seem to me that he was ripping on the Butler basketball program. I thought he was just disagreeing with those that thought the MVC would get a lot of media exposure in a big city (Indianapolis) if Butler were to join.....he was pointing out that Butler, despite all their success, still takes a backseat to several other schools in the Indy media.

[Dawgbit]

Butler has attendance issues.

[MoValley John]

Butler has attendance issues.


Butler’s average home attendance in 2006-07 was 5,734, up from 3,760 a year ago.


Wow.:no:

[ButlerFan]

There is no doubt Butler does have an attendance problem. However, that's to be expected when you have 37,000 living alumni and just over 4,000 students. That doesn't change anything, but it's a decent excuse.

If you look, though, at the end of the season last year most home games had 7000+ people in attendance.

Personally, I don't think Butler is quite ready for the Valley. While we are a great program we just can't compete financially with Valley teams. In a couple of years, I think we could be ready because Butler has its two best recruiting classes ever (on paper) coming in the next couple years. That's saying something with the kind of players that have came through the program the last 10 years.

[Nyghtewynd]

And while Hinkel Fieldhouse is one of the great old barns in the country, and a building where everyone should see a game at least once, it is not the most comfortable arena in the world.

[mjgorman]

As a Butler fan, I would love it if we made the move. I have huge respect for your conference and would to be playing the caliber of teams this conference possesses every year. Despite what some Butler fans say, our budget is equal to SIU, so we can compete in that field, especially with a four team expansion that would force divisions to be made. And on the attendance issue, it's hard to draw people to the games when we play the type of teams we have in the LEAGUE. I will point out that our average attendance was 9427 when the MVC teams came this year and even your bottom feeder team Evansville drew 8027. I believe attendance would go up significantly if the caliber of teams we played at home went up. Like all mid-majors, drawing good teams into your building is almost impossible.

[STLfan]

Here are my thoughts on this subject.

Is there a team in the Valley that either is unwilling to do what it takes to build a solid program, things like facilities and coaching salaries or doesn’t have the resources to do so? The A10 has a few of these.

If so maybe a deal could be worked out for that team to move to a smaller level conference and get some money to ease their transition.

Then offer Dayton, SLU, and Xavier. If the Valley offers the three of them together I would be very surprised if they didn’t jump at the chance. That would add three programs that are serious about wanting to have good programs. It would also make a 12 team conference so you would have to divide into two divisions east and west.

Dayton Arena holds 13,455
Chaifetz Arena (SLU) holds 10,600
Cintas Center (XU) holds 10,250

2007 attendance isn’t up yet but their 2006 attendance was:
Dayton – 12,422
Xavier – 9,774
St. Louis – 9,325

Here is where they would fall in the Valley attendance wise
Creighton – 13,900
Dayton – 12,422
Wichita St. – 10,435
Xavier – 9,774
St. Louis – 9,325
Bradley – 9,220
Southern Illinois. – 7,291
Missouri St. – 6,965
Northern Iowa – 6,898
Evansville – 6,025
Illinois St. – 5,409
Indiana St. – 4,278
Drake – 4,267

It would also add the following markets
St. Louis - 2,796,368
Cincinnati - 2,104,218
Dayton - 838,940

Thoughts?

[SubGod22]

I would absolutely HATE to see an unbalanced schedule. Dayton and Xavier are more desirable teams to me than SLU but I don't want to see the conference split into east and west. IF it were to happen the three teams you'd mentioned would be alright, but that would assume one of the current teams would leave and I'm not sure if that'll happen or not. Eventually, we're going to see a big seperation in money between some of the schools and that may force movement. But until then, I don't like it.

[Aegyptus]

Here are my thoughts on this subject.

Is there a team in the Valley that either is unwilling to do what it takes to build a solid program, things like facilities and coaching salaries or doesn’t have the resources to do so? The A10 has a few of these.

If so maybe a deal could be worked out for that team to move to a smaller level conference and get some money to ease their transition.

Then offer Dayton, SLU, and Xavier. If the Valley offers the three of them together I would be very surprised if they didn’t jump at the chance. That would add three programs that are serious about wanting to have good programs. It would also make a 12 team conference so you would have to divide into two divisions east and west.

Thoughts?

It is a good idea. And would greatly improve the Valley in many respects. But, don't count on a lot of love on this board (especially for your institution). We are a little scared to change.

If a Valley team would not leave would you be against adding Butler (or a different team, but preferably Butler) for a 14 team league? You would still have east and west (or the Ohio Division and the Missouri Division). Or do you think a team leaving is a prerequisite to the three A-10 teams joining?

[AcePurpleFan]

Dayton Arena holds 13,455
Chaifetz Arena (SLU) holds 10,600
Cintas Center (XU) holds 10,250




Interesting figures on Arena sizes. It would be interesting to see how that compares with current Valley Arena's as well. My guess is pretty good.

[E-Ville]

I'm still a little surprised at the people who are afraid to change the league. I don't think they would be saying the same thing once a ton of new exciting rivalries would begin. Primarily Creighton vs. Xavier, that would be huge and could very easily become a match-up between 2 top 10 teams. SIU vs. Butler showed signs of huge potential during their BracketBuster matchup, both were sweet 16 teams that were on the brink of making it further. Wichita's building would be rocking when a possibly newly ranked conference rival like Dayton came to town.

I would guess Butler's attendance and program enthusiasm would greatly rise once getting into a primetime conference. Butler never had success like last year and the local media picked up greatly. They've never been in a conference where highly rated teams came to play regularly. There might be more fans of IU and PU in Indianapolis, but Butler still is the best team in the city. Butler is a program on the rise, make no mistake about it.

I personally don't think the Dakota schools are the way to go to take the conference to the top. Chicago schools like Loyola and UIC are an interesting take, I think they would also be near the top of the list of expansion schools.

I will painfully admit that if there is a team to go. The team on the bubble right now is Evansville. Even though we compete well in other sports, like being defending Baseball champs, right now we are the basketball weakest link. I think in the long run, we will be a better program than Northern Iowa and maybe Drake or a few other schools. People forget that we were champs in '99. A poor coaching change cost us a lot that people outside of Evansville don't understand.

I think the A-10 teams we are after make a lot of sense to join the valley. Dayton, Xavier, and SLU all have better geographical rivals in the valley. That is something that I think is crucial in increasing attendance and building program loyalty. I think it's easier for Cincinnati fans of Xavier to get more excited about SIU or basically any other valley team than top A-10 teams like UMass, St. Joe's, or GW. The Valley has better competition than the A-10 these days.

In a 14 team league, I think we would add Xavier, Dayton, SLU and Butler

In a 12 team league, I think the MVC would get rid of Evansville, not add Butler, and just raid the A-10 of the 3 teams

[DUBulldog]

It's interesting that two of you this afternoon have used the words 'scared' and 'afraid' when it comes to change within the MVC.

I don't think fear factors into it at all. Those who are against change have many reasons, but fear isn't one of them. That would be like me saying that Aegyptus or E-Ville are afraid to keep the MVC as it is....which would be a ridiculous statement for me to make.

Here's my thought.....the MVC is doing better the last few years than it has since the early-mid 80's. As the old saying goes, if ain't broke, don't fix it. Change is fine, when it's necessary. Change for the sake of change is often folly.

Teams like Xavier, Dayton, SLU and Butler are all fine teams in medium to large metro areas. So were some of the teams that the WAC admitted several years ago, when they decided that bigger is better. There 16 team league, while it contained a lot of very good programs, was a disaster.

At this point, we've seen one quote from the new SLU coach that he'd prefer to be in the MVC. He was also quoted in an article today as saying that SLU is in a "very good league". Has anybody seen anything at all from Xavier or Dayton to indicate they'd be interested in the MVC? We might be getting just a little bit ahead of ourselves with our wish list here.

[jaypharmalum]

Xavier isn't coming to the MVC - doesn't make sense if any way, especially for the Muskies. Distance would be a huge issue for everyone as Cincinnati isn't really in the "Missouri Valley" region.

Xavier isn't coming, Dayton isn't coming... SLU isn't coming anytime soon.

Everyone can chill... I know we don't have a whole lot to talk about right now, but these ideas are a bit ridiculous.

[chuckywang]

Just like Xavier/Dayton, if you add Bowling Green, Toledo needs to come as well.

[MoValley John]

Just like Xavier/Dayton, if you add Bowling Green, Toledo needs to come as well.
I think you losse balance, once you add cities, you need to add States. Right now you have Wichita State, Missouri State, Illinois State and Indiana State. If you start adding teams from citie in Ohio, you need to add Ohio State.

[Aegyptus]

I think you losse balance, once you add cities, you need to add States. Right now you have Wichita State, Missouri State, Illinois State and Indiana State. If you start adding teams from citie in Ohio, you need to add Ohio State.

Why even worry about States (although it is North Dakota State and South Dakota State). Let's get really crazy and just add Ohio University.