Saint Louis University to the Valley?

[Aegyptus]

Well, now that Majerus is hired (assuming he shows up for the press conference) the expansion talk has to become more serious.

Just a refresher, here is what we know:

Quotes from Bernie Miklasz (April 22):

Majerus gave Biondi the list yesterday...

Lots of great stuff on that list -- including the necessity to move to the Missouri Valley Conference, if possible.

If he takes the gig, and I don't think that he will, Majerus wants to do nothing short of rearranging the entire foundation of SLU basketball.

After some SLU fans questioned him:

You can call BS all that you want, but Majerus told Biondi SLU should be in the MVC....

You don't have to agree with his opinion, but if you're suggesting that I'm making it up ... well, actually, I don't give a flip.

The A-10 is inferior to the Valley right now, and so at least I know this about Majerus: he's in touch with reality.

So, that is the only official source I have. I am sure it came up on the two local sports radio shows (590 and 1380 - the stations that broke this story) but I do not have access to them so if someone was listening, please post the contents of those conversations.

____

But, now that Majerus is there, and there was at least some demand/request/suggestion that SLU should move to the MVC the question is, what should the MVC do?

Obviously, there are some that think the Valley does not need SLU, and you are free to have that opinion. But, given Elgin's comments in the past, I think it is safe to assume he wants SLU in the Valley.

So, how does he approach this? Does he wait for SLU to contact him? Does he initiate contact since it is pretty clear there is at least some interest? Does he make another statement in the Post-Dispatch that SLU is welcome to join to keep the issue in the news? Does he contact other A-10 schools to try to package a move? If it starts looking like a move is imminent, does he get a 12th? Basically, should he be aggressive or passive on SLU in particular and on expansion generally? I think both parties generally want this to happen, so how do we make it happen?

[Nyghtewynd]

At this point in time, if Doug Elgin wants SLU with no strings attached, I want Doug Elgin to find a new job. It doesn't make one lick of sense for anyone except SLU.

[Aegyptus]

At this point in time, if Doug Elgin wants SLU with no strings attached, I want Doug Elgin to find a new job. It doesn't make one lick of sense for anyone except SLU.

What strings do you want?

I don't even know what we could ask for. Money? A lesser stake in the Valley's tourney winnings? What would there even be to negotiate? It seems to me either they are in or they are not.

[Nyghtewynd]

I want a team that's actually going to improve the conference, and SLU ain't it. As I said before, if we were going to add Xavier and SLU that'd be okay. I'd deal with SLU to get a team like Xavier. But I don't want SLU AND Oral Roberts or SLU and UIC. That's not even close to good enough, and SLU isn't good enough on their own. We have a really good thing going here, and there's no reason to screw up the formula unless you're going to improve it.

[MoValley John]

I want a team that's actually going to improve the conference, and SLU ain't it. As I said before, if we were going to add Xavier and SLU that'd be okay. I'd deal with SLU to get a team like Xavier. But I don't want SLU AND Oral Roberts or SLU and UIC. That's not even close to good enough, and SLU isn't good enough on their own. We have a really good thing going here, and there's no reason to screw up the formula unless you're going to improve it.

Agree.

[IndyTreeFan]

I want a team that's actually going to improve the conference, and SLU ain't it. As I said before, if we were going to add Xavier and SLU that'd be okay. I'd deal with SLU to get a team like Xavier. But I don't want SLU AND Oral Roberts or SLU and UIC. That's not even close to good enough, and SLU isn't good enough on their own. We have a really good thing going here, and there's no reason to screw up the formula unless you're going to improve it.

Just a question here (seriously) - don't you think that having a coach of Majerus' stature and reputation would be really good for the Valley? Yeah, we've got good coaches, but no one that is on Majerus' level.

The thing that would be most scary about SLU is their seeming lust to switch conferences every few years. Seven since they left the MVC? Get real...

:Jumpy:

[SubGod22]

I want a team that's actually going to improve the conference, and SLU ain't it. As I said before, if we were going to add Xavier and SLU that'd be okay. I'd deal with SLU to get a team like Xavier. But I don't want SLU AND Oral Roberts or SLU and UIC. That's not even close to good enough, and SLU isn't good enough on their own. We have a really good thing going here, and there's no reason to screw up the formula unless you're going to improve it.

Well put. The Valley doesn't need to expand and SLU isn't a school that you just have to have.

[Nyghtewynd]

You don't add a school for a coach, especially if it's a school that is at best a stepping-stone to something else. The MVC is good because of good coaches, but since those coaches keep leaving your reputation has to be built on something else. Besides, how long is he going to be there? Two years? Three? Either he's successful and takes a new job or he re-re-re-retires.

[MoValley John]

You don't add a school for a coach, especially if it's a school that is at best a stepping-stone to something else. The MVC is good because of good coaches, but since those coaches keep leaving your reputation has to be built on something else. Besides, how long is he going to be there? Two years? Three? Either he's successful and takes a new job or he re-re-re-retires.

Once again, I agree, but I think Majerus is not at SLU as a stepping stone. He is there because he really misses coaching and doesn't think he will have as much pressure as he would have had, at say, Iowa or any other BCS. But then again, he is only at SLU for a year, expect him to choke on a hotdog by next June.

[Aegyptus]

What an ego we have.

Earlier this year I wanted us to start thinking of ourselves as a major conference...well, I guess I got my wish. The day we will not include SLU in our league is the day we are no longer a mid-major.

However, compliments to our ego aside, Elgin has already indicated, more than once, that SLU would be welcome. Majerus, who will probably have pretty much control of everything dealing with athletics at SLU, has indicated he has either demanded, requested, proposed or encouraged SLU to join the Valley. At this point I would say that it is 50/50 at worst and 80/20 at best that SLU will join the Valley in the next couple of years. It is not a foregone conclusion, but it is likely. SLU seems to want it and the Valley seem to want it, and those are the only parties that matter.

With that reality in mind, how does the Valley handle this situation? Yes, one possibility is to fire Elgin. But, since that is unlikely seeing as how he has led the Valley to prominence, what does Elgin do to get SLU and possibly other schools on board?

[DUBulldog]

What an ego we have.

Earlier this year I wanted us to start thinking of ourselves as a major conference...well, I guess I got my wish. The day we will not include SLU in our league is the day we are no longer a mid-major.

However, compliments to our ego aside, Elgin has already indicated, more than once, that SLU would be welcome. Majerus, who will probably have pretty much control of everything dealing with athletics at SLU, has indicated he has either demanded, requested, proposed or encouraged SLU to join the Valley. At this point I would say that it is 50/50 at worst and 80/20 at best that SLU will join the Valley in the next couple of years. It is not a foregone conclusion, but it is likely. SLU seems to want it and the Valley seem to want it, and those are the only parties that matter.

With that reality in mind, how does the Valley handle this situation? Yes, one possibility is to fire Elgin. But, since that is unlikely seeing as how he has led the Valley to prominence, what does Elgin do to get SLU and possibly other schools on board?

Unless you can add a "big name" team, expansion is pointless. Any amount of schools above 10 kills the balanced schedule and dilutes rivalries. And, it certainly doesn't guarantee additional teams in the NCAA tourney. So, the same money must be split 11 or 12 ways instead of 10.

Tell me again why I should be jumping up and down with joy to see St Louis admitted to the MVC? Majerus has been out of coaching for a few years....guys who leave coaching at a very high level, sit out a few years and then come back at a "lower" level aren't always successful....see Tom Davis, Rollie Massimino, etc.

[Tasmanian Devil]

I don't want the Valley to expand past 10 teams but I would definitely support a SLU for Drake swap. Sorry DU fans.

[iSASO]

If SLU were added and the number of conference members remained at 10, that would be acceptable.

Negotiate that request, Mr. Elgin.

[Myopicraiderfan]

I don't want the Valley to expand past 10 teams but I would definitely support a SLU for Drake swap. Sorry DU fans.


Drake is old school valley. Rather see evansville or trees disappear. At some point I would expect the Big East to blow up and become the Catholic basketball conference and the we play football just not as well as the Big 5 conference.

[Angrybluejaydan]

This is starting to get ugly. I can't believe that people are picking teams to leave. The four play in teams from the tourney are all serious about competing in the MVC. They all fired their coaches and made good coaching moves. Now, to suggest that certain members need to leave to keep the league at 10 and make the SLU addition acceptable is absurd. (Unless you guys are joking about who should leave....then, Emily Latella...."never mind")

SLU would be a great addition. I say add em. If Elgin can't line up another quality prospect for a 12th spot then, so what. Play 20 conference games.

Elgin has said in the past that SLU would be a welcome addition to the MVC. I am sure that prospect has been discussed with all members, ADs, Presidents and coaches before he made such an assertion. I think SLU would be a great addition even without Majerus.

Geographically, it makes sense. We also get a much bigger TV market and better exposure in Saint Louis. I think the benefits are obvious.

I think if a month ago, a poll on this issue took place, with a choice of "what schools to add" and the list included Marquette, DePaul, Detroit, Xavier, St Louis, Loyola of Chicago, Butler, any MAC school, any Horizon school, Tulsa, New Mexico State, Valpo, Western Kentucky or Murray State, you would see Saint Louis near the top, probably right behind Xavier and Marquette.

Elgin is a very smart guy. He would never had suggested that Saint Louis was welcome in the MVC if he knew he didn't have support of the MVC members, AD's and presidents.

[Aegyptus]

Who exactly is the Valley going to get that is a "bigger name" than SLU? Assuming no one is going to leave the Big 10 or Big 12 for the Valley, I do not see any "big names." I suppose you could say Memphis, but when people mention that on this board they are chastised for being unrealistic. Other than that, who? Louisville? Marquette?

I also want to say something to all of those that are not considering academics in their consideration. What exactly is it that universities are for, anyway? Your sporting entertainment? Ohh, that's right, education. The MAC will never be a first rate conference simply based on academics. Conference USA will never be a second rate conference simply based on academics. Rice, SMU, Tulane will always make this conference important because of their academic reputation. Who does the Valley have that serves that purpose? Creighton?

SLU is no Rice and it never will be, but it is respected academically and it has a national reputation based simply on academics. Wouldn't it be nice to have a Tier I law school in the conference? Wouldn't it be nice to have a world renown medical school in the Valley? All I am saying is that we have plenty Northern Iowas and Missouri States. It would be nice to add a top notch academic school that regularly produces Senators and CEOs and Brain Surgeons and Judges. Check out U.S. News (http://www.usnews.com/usnews/edu/college/rankings/brief/t1natudoc_brief.php). Saint Louis is the No. 77 ranked school in the country. Tied with the University of Colorado and above Baylor, Marquette, Iowa State, Tennessee, Alabama, Kansas, Mizzou, Nebraska-Lincoln, Arizona, Kentucky, Oklahoma, Kansas State, etc. How many other Valley schools are in the top 125? None (Dayton is 105 by the way). SLU's academic standing brings a lot to the Valley. A conference is more than a sports affiliation.

[DUBulldog]

Who exactly is the Valley going to get that is a "bigger name" than SLU? Assuming no one is going to leave the Big 10 or Big 12 for the Valley, I do not see any "big names." I suppose you could say Memphis, but when people mention that on this board they are chastised for being unrealistic. Other than that, who? Louisville? Marquette?.

They're not going to get any big names.....that's my point....expansion is pointless unless you can get a big name. If the MVC had 8 teams or 9 teams, I'd have no problem with expansion. With the MVC at 10, I have a problem with it. Expanding beyond 10 stops you from playing a true round robin schedule, dilutes rivalries and doesn't guarantee any extra bids. I know I'm repeating myself from my previous post.

A conference is more than a sports affiliation

Not to the average fan or to the NCAA selection committee. I'm sorry. I just don't see Joe Blow in East Bumblefork, West Virginia suddenly changing his opinion of the MVC just because SLU joins the league. I certainly didn't change my opinion of the A-10 because SLU joined that league.

The current MVC schools have little in common other than their league affiliation.

Conference USA will never be a second rate conference simply based on academics. Rice, SMU, Tulane will always make this conference important because of their academic reputation.

So, by that logic, the MVC should add the University of Chicago, Grinnell and Washington U of St Louis....that way, the MVC would never be a second rate conference, right?

[Nyghtewynd]

I can't disagree any more. The sports conference is exactly that--a SPORTS conference. As long as you're not giving out mail-order diplomas, it's not that big of a deal. First of all, SLU isn't all that. Wash. U. is the premiere college in St. Louis for academics, not SLU. Second, most of our schools actually *teach* their undergrads rather than ignore them. Sorry that that doesn't show up in the US News rankings, but they don't. I don't give one flip what sort of academics SLU has. I care about their *sports* teams for our *sports* conference. And their *sports* teams aren't that great. Let's not forget, BTW, that you have to take them into ALL our sports. Yeah, their soccer is good. But their *WOMEN'S* basketball team is not only a joke, it is NOT supported by the administration by any stretch. Other than that, what are we getting?

I'd certainly be willing to talk about SLU if (a) someone else joined with them, or (b) someone currently in the conference went elsewhere. But if the MVC both took SLU and expected each team to drop two precious non-conference games in order to play an average-at-best SLU team TWICE, I think at least one team would look elsewhere on their own. I don't care one bit what Elgin thought five years ago. This ain't five years ago. The playing field has changed.

[MSU Bleeds Maroon]

However, compliments to our ego aside, Elgin has already indicated, more than once, that SLU would be welcome. Majerus, who will probably have pretty much control of everything dealing with athletics at SLU, has indicated he has either demanded, requested, proposed or encouraged SLU to join the Valley. At this point I would say that it is 50/50 at worst and 80/20 at best that SLU will join the Valley in the next couple of years. It is not a foregone conclusion, but it is likely. SLU seems to want it and the Valley seem to want it, and those are the only parties that matter.


If I remember correctly, Elgin's exact words were a rather deft bit of doublespeak. He said that the Valley would strongly consider an application by SLU, if they were to make one; but SLU had never asked. "Strongly consider" is not an indication of guaranteed acceptance; really, it's nothing more than a promise that SLU's application would get an up-or-down vote.

If SLU were to rejoin the Valley, the short-term basketball effects would be negligible. Soccer would improve, but baseball would get weaker. I could see the private/non-football schools supporting SLU's request, while the other Valley members would need some convincing.

Nobody is getting kicked out of the conference. That's just stupid.

In the politics-make-strange-bedfellows category, here's a meme submitted for your approval: the leading proponents for SLU's readmission to the Valley will end up being the Kansas City Chamber of Commerce. :grin:

[MSU Bleeds Maroon]

So, by that logic, the MVC should add the University of Chicago, Grinnell and Washington U of St Louis....that way, the MVC would never be a second rate conference, right?

Two of the three are former Valley members... maybe it's the Chinese Year of The Homecoming? :innocent:

[WSUfan]

I'd like to see ten baseball schools in the Valley. I would not like to see the conference tourney in SL every year if SLU was in the MVC.

[Lurking Dog]

St. Louis can't come back until it gets a football team.

http://www.rogersarkansas.com/museum/donationOfTheMonth/billiken.jpg

[valleyclimber]

Many interesting thoughts on the POSSIBLE SLU Valley lovefest. Here's my take: Do MVC coaches not complain every year about how hard it is to schedule quality non-con games? YES!

SLU is consistently top 100 RPI. Making the Valley loop a 20 game stretch instead of 18 would put 2 more quality games on each current school's sched.
Also that 2 less games coaches have to look for. I'm all for keeping it a round robin ...just now it will be at 20 games. The Valley would still have a true champion with NO unbalanced schedules. That's the thing that sucks about the Big East, Big 10/11 or SEC.

Many have expressed concern that SLU is NOT a good catch that would elavate the Valley even further. The Billikens are almost annually a top 100 RPI tream. How is that bad for the MVC? AND here's the BIG thing, that I think almost all of us would agree on....Majerus is going to put SLU hoops back on the college basketball map. Think the MVC would most definitely benefit from a potential Majerus coached top 25 team....no doubt about it!

A few here think that adding the St. Louis market to the already existing MVC metro areas wouldn't be that big of deal. I'm not so sure about that, and think adding another good sized market may be just enough to get the MVC some more tv time. I'm not saying alot more, but if Majerus does get SLU to top 25 status in a couple of years plus SIU, WSU, CU keep up strong potential top 25 programs, then IMHO the MVC is going to start looking mighty attractive for more national tv exposure.

As far as Majerus not staying at SLU for too long and using it as a stepping stone. Hmmm? He's had PLENTY of opportunites to take those high level jobs anyway. Why would he sign at SLU as a stepping stone to get to something that he was already offered. Doesn't make sense to me. Say Majerus brings SLU hoops all the way back after 5 seasons, then he retires. So what because by then it will be a solid national power, who can pay big bucks to snag another big name coach.

It's also a little bewildering to me as to why some posters think it's that big a deal of SLU being the "home" team for Arch Madness. Folks the MVC school's who are HOT are going to have fanbases that will STILL be ravenous for those hot Valley tourney tickets. Each MVC school will be well resprented fanwise, thus negating much (if not about all) any "home" city advantage. And man, why mess with the site when the MVC is already wildly sucessful in St. Louis. Think I read somewhere that the Valley's championship game OUTDREW every other conferences title game. That's amazing and very cool for the MVC.

Something that has been brought up is the SLU's fanbase is pretty full of themselves. All the better I say. That's what helps create some REALLY good rivalires...playing against a school that you completely hate. GOTTA LOVE IT!!! There's already some great rivalries going right now in the Valley, but you put an SLU (who fanbase can be unbelievably hard to take) into the shark tank, and that would REALLY stir the pot up. YES!!!!

Who knows? Maybe all this talk about SLU in the Valley will be just that...talk. But I would be in the corner of those who would support going to 11 teams and playing that round robin 20 game Valley schedule.

Keep it rockin' Valley!!! :valley: :original:

[SubGod22]

If Kansas or Mizzou or Iowa or Indiana wanted to join the Valley I may make an exception. But, as others have already pointed out, we don't need to add anyone just for the sake of adding another school. SLU would not impress anyone as an addition. Maybe RM could get them better and finish in the top 6 in the Valley. Maybe not. I'd rather keep what we have and play the round robin style we have now. If we start adding schools that offer nothing to the conference, I wouldn't be suprised to see a few teams look to bolt somewhere else. We're trying to establish ourselves as a top notch conference year in and year out. Why screw with that by adding an average at best program? Again, the only plus that could come out of this is moving the Tourny to KC.

[BearsCountry]

Drake is old school valley. Rather see evansville or trees disappear. At some point I would expect the Big East to blow up and become the Catholic basketball conference and the we play football just not as well as the Big 5 conference.

I would take Big East football over the ACC right now. Also its not as down as people want to beleive.

[Aces101]

As a alumnus and fan of UE athletics, I would be thrilled if the MVC were able to expand to 12 teams by adding SLU and Xavier. This would allow the league to have two 6-team divisions. This would rekindle old rivalries from the MCC days with UE battling SLU and Xavier.....fans would love these games.

The divisions would cut down on travel and allow the more natural rivalries to blossom while exposing the fans to the other division schools once a year.

East Division (East of Mississippi River)
Evansville
Xavier
Indiana State
Illinois State
Bradley
Southern Illinois

West Division (West of Mississippi River)
Creighton
Northern Iowa
Drake
Wichita State
Missouri State
St. Louis

Unless I am incorrect, this allows 3 private and 3 public schools in each division as well to balance the league.

Schedule:
All teams within a division play each other 2 times each season - 10 games.
Teams would play the schools from the other division once a year (home 1st year, road 2nd year, etc) - 6 games

This would reduce the Valley schedule from 18 to 16 games. Teams then could have more flexibility when scheduling nonconference games.

[Nyghtewynd]

SLU is consistently top 100 RPI.

Six years of SLU RPIs:

75-103-184-61-63-109

That's called about-half-the-time-top-100 RPI.

[goaces]

Many interesting thoughts on the POSSIBLE SLU Valley lovefest. Here's my take: Do MVC coaches not complain every year about how hard it is to schedule quality non-con games? YES!

SLU is consistently top 100 RPI. Making the Valley loop a 20 game stretch instead of 18 would put 2 more quality games on each current school's sched.
Also that 2 less games coaches have to look for. I'm all for keeping it a round robin ...just now it will be at 20 games. The Valley would still have a true champion with NO unbalanced schedules. That's the thing that sucks about the Big East, Big 10/11 or SEC.

Many have expressed concern that SLU is NOT a good catch that would elavate the Valley even further. The Billikens are almost annually a top 100 RPI tream. How is that bad for the MVC? AND here's the BIG thing, that I think almost all of us would agree on....Majerus is going to put SLU hoops back on the college basketball map. Think the MVC would most definitely benefit from a potential Majerus coached top 25 team....no doubt about it!

A few here think that adding the St. Louis market to the already existing MVC metro areas wouldn't be that big of deal. I'm not so sure about that, and think adding another good sized market may be just enough to get the MVC some more tv time. I'm not saying alot more, but if Majerus does get SLU to top 25 status in a couple of years plus SIU, WSU, CU keep up strong potential top 25 programs, then IMHO the MVC is going to start looking mighty attractive for more national tv exposure.

As far as Majerus not staying at SLU for too long and using it as a stepping stone. Hmmm? He's had PLENTY of opportunites to take those high level jobs anyway. Why would he sign at SLU as a stepping stone to get to something that he was already offered. Doesn't make sense to me. Say Majerus brings SLU hoops all the way back after 5 seasons, then he retires. So what because by then it will be a solid national power, who can pay big bucks to snag another big name coach.

It's also a little bewildering to me as to why some posters think it's that big a deal of SLU being the "home" team for Arch Madness. Folks the MVC school's who are HOT are going to have fanbases that will STILL be ravenous for those hot Valley tourney tickets. Each MVC school will be well resprented fanwise, thus negating much (if not about all) any "home" city advantage. And man, why mess with the site when the MVC is already wildly sucessful in St. Louis. Think I read somewhere that the Valley's championship game OUTDREW every other conferences title game. That's amazing and very cool for the MVC.

Something that has been brought up is the SLU's fanbase is pretty full of themselves. All the better I say. That's what helps create some REALLY good rivalires...playing against a school that you completely hate. GOTTA LOVE IT!!! There's already some great rivalries going right now in the Valley, but you put an SLU (who fanbase can be unbelievably hard to take) into the shark tank, and that would REALLY stir the pot up. YES!!!!

Who knows? Maybe all this talk about SLU in the Valley will be just that...talk. But I would be in the corner of those who would support going to 11 teams and playing that round robin 20 game Valley schedule.

Keep it rockin' Valley!!! :valley: :original:

The most common sense post yet. Everyone is entitled to an opinion, and that is the fun of forums like this. Let me just say it was not that long ago that "Spoonball" had SLU as a top 35 program averaging 20,000 a game. Is is the same program now? No. Could it be later? Good chance I personally don't see why anyone does not see the advantage of adding SLU. But I have stated my case before, and I am glad that others such as Valleyclimbers "get it". At least I am not alone. I know for a fact that Doug Elgin and other league presidents want the Bilikins in for the same reasons I have given. This is such a no brainer, but again, everyone has a right to an opinion. I do wish, however, that the talk of kicking out any existing teams would stop.

[goaces]

As a alumnus and fan of UE athletics, I would be thrilled if the MVC were able to expand to 12 teams by adding SLU and Xavier. This would allow the league to have two 6-team divisions. This would rekindle old rivalries from the MCC days with UE battling SLU and Xavier.....fans would love these games.

The divisions would cut down on travel and allow the more natural rivalries to blossom while exposing the fans to the other division schools once a year.

East Division (East of Mississippi River)
Evansville
Xavier
Indiana State
Illinois State
Bradley
Southern Illinois

West Division (West of Mississippi River)
Creighton
Northern Iowa
Drake
Wichita State
Missouri State
St. Louis

Unless I am incorrect, this allows 3 private and 3 public schools in each division as well to balance the league.

Schedule:
All teams within a division play each other 2 times each season - 10 games.
Teams would play the schools from the other division once a year (home 1st year, road 2nd year, etc) - 6 games

This would reduce the Valley schedule from 18 to 16 games. Teams then could have more flexibility when scheduling nonconference games.

Nice post and well thought out. :valley: :aces:

[DUBulldog]

Good chance I personally don't see why anyone does not see the advantage of adding SLU. But I have stated my case before, and I am glad that others such as Valleyclimbers "get it".

I've got nothing against SLU.....I just don't like the idea of expansion at this point unless it's to add a team that will almost certainly take the MVC to another level. I'm sorry, I don't see SLU as a certainty like that.

I'm sorry that I don't "get it"....but, at the same time, I feel that you don't "get it"....although, unlike you, I can understand the reasoning of those on the other side of the argument.

Again, it's not the idea of adding SLU that bothers me as much as the idea of expanding, period.

[Aegyptus]

DUBulldog or others,

I am surprised by all the different opinions on SLU (I just assumed people and the Valley would want them given our past comments). Thus, it is hard to get a read on what most people want. Therefore, I think this would be a good poll question. I have not set one up before and I am unsure if it is worth it, so I will defer to you on this. I know we have plenty of threads on this already, but I am interested to see the breakdown and perhaps the Valley office would be interested as well.

I think the questions should be:

If SLU were to request admission to the Valley as Majerus has indicated he is interested in doing, the Valley should:

A. Admit them immediately. They would be a great addition.

B. Admit them in a few years after we see what Majerus can do with the basketball program.

C. Admit them only if they bring another A-10 team with them (i.e. Xavier).

D. Admit them only if another Valley team leaves in the next few years on their own volition.

E. Never admit them because they do not fit with the Valley.

What do you think? At least then we would know where we stand on this.

[DUBulldog]

DUBulldog or others,

I am surprised by all the different opinions on SLU (I just assumed people and the Valley would want them given our past comments). Thus, it is hard to get a read on what most people want.

Aegyptus.....you and "GoAces" are both fairly new to the board....maybe you've been reading for awhile, but both of you just recently started posting.

To be honest, expansion is an idea that has been tossed around on this board many, many times in the past. As you'd expect, there's a variety of opinions on the subject. But, in the past, the board has pretty much leaned toward no expansion.

In reality, it makes no difference what those of us on ValleyTalk think...it's all about what the league office and the school presidents think.

If the league is to expand, I'd prefer 12 teams over 11.

[MoValley John]

Aegyptus.....you and "GoAces" are both fairly new to the board....maybe you've been reading for awhile, but both of you just recently started posting.

To be honest, expansion is an idea that has been tossed around on this board many, many times in the past. As you'd expect, there's a variety of opinions on the subject. But, in the past, the board has pretty much leaned toward no expansion.

In reality, it makes no difference what those of us on ValleyTalk think...it's all about what the league office and the school presidents think.

If the league is to expand, I'd prefer 12 teams over 11.

I would prefer an expansion to 24 teams; four divisions, six teams each. How could anyone think the Valley is midmajor when you got the biggest goddamned league in the country? We'd make the Big East look like pigshat! Conference tourney? The Valley would be so freaking big we would need two tournies, one in St Louis and another that rotates between Indy and KC. At that point, I think we would start to have all the bases coverd, big league, big cities, rotating tourney, hookers at every game, the works!

[Chairman of the Boards]

"hookers at every game" Now, you're talking!
:bounceblue: :banana: :clap: :fear: :lol: :innocent: :naughty: :Jumpy: :valley:

[MoValley John]

"hookers at every game" Now, you're talking!
:bounceblue: :banana: :clap: :fear: :lol: :innocent: :naughty: :Jumpy: :valley:

Oh, and I forgot to mention the "Vegas" factor.

[kcshocker]

I think we should add SLU and KU, That way Ku can tell us:valley: :bounceblue: how superior they are to themselves!

[MSNSaluki]

As a alumnus and fan of UE athletics, I would be thrilled if the MVC were able to expand to 12 teams by adding SLU and Xavier. This would allow the league to have two 6-team divisions. This would rekindle old rivalries from the MCC days with UE battling SLU and Xavier.....fans would love these games.

The divisions would cut down on travel and allow the more natural rivalries to blossom while exposing the fans to the other division schools once a year.

East Division (East of Mississippi River)
Evansville
Xavier
Indiana State
Illinois State
Bradley
Southern Illinois

West Division (West of Mississippi River)
Creighton
Northern Iowa
Drake
Wichita State
Missouri State
St. Louis

Unless I am incorrect, this allows 3 private and 3 public schools in each division as well to balance the league.

Schedule:
All teams within a division play each other 2 times each season - 10 games.
Teams would play the schools from the other division once a year (home 1st year, road 2nd year, etc) - 6 games

This would reduce the Valley schedule from 18 to 16 games. Teams then could have more flexibility when scheduling nonconference games.

The NCAA tournament selection committee has made it clear they don't like leagues having unbalanced schedules. That's part of the reason the Big 10 added conference games.

If we go to 12, you have to have 22 conference games. Yeah, it takes away from the non-conference schedule but with the trouble Valley teams have in that area, 22 conference games guarantee you 11 home games.

[goaces]

[QUOTE=DUBulldog]
I'm sorry that I don't "get it"....but, at the same time, I feel that you don't "get it"....although, unlike you, I can understand the reasoning of those on the other side of the argument.

The fact is DUBulldog, I do understand both sides of the arguement...very well in fact. I also know for a FACT of Doug Elgins's and other league president's appeal for the addition of SLU. And what my being "new" to posting on the Valley forum has to do with my input I will leave to your own speculation.

[goaces]

[QUOTE=DUBulldog]
I'm sorry that I don't "get it"....but, at the same time, I feel that you don't "get it"....although, unlike you, I can understand the reasoning of those on the other side of the argument.

The fact is DUBulldog, I do understand both sides of the arguement...very well in fact. I also know for a FACT of Doug Elgins's and other league president's appeal for the addition of SLU.

[DUBulldog]

The fact is DUBulldog, I do understand both sides of the arguement...very well in fact.

Here's a quote from you:

I personally don't see why anyone does not see the advantage of adding SLU.

I'm sorry, that doesn't sound to me like somebody who understands both sides of the argument. That sounds like somebody who can't understand why anybody would possibly disagree with them. You posted that after several people spelled out their reasons.

And what my being "new" to posting on the Valley forum has to do with my input I will leave to your own speculation

Lighten up, Francis....that was in no way intended as an insult.


Aegyptus suggested running a poll to see people's opinions of expansion.
You and Aegyptus seem be the two people who are doing the most discussion for expansion.
You and he are also both relatively new posters.
He said it was hard to get a read on what people wanted.
I pointed out that the idea has been discussed many, many times in the past on ValleyTalk.
What I was trying to convey is up to your own speculation.

[Lurking Dog]

Aces 101,

I'm pretty sure Xavier and Dayton will stay in the same conference, and that will be the A10.

If the MVC went to divisions--and I'm ambivalent about that--I'd go with Butler for the eastern division. I think Butler would be interested (?).

[MoValley John]

Harvard, Yale, Notre Dame, BC, Evansville, Indiana State

Xavier, DePaul, St Louis, Butler, Southern Illinois, Bradley

Memphis, Marquette, Louisville, Illinois State, Northern Iowa, Drake

Tulsa, Oral Roberts, UNLV, Missouri State, Wichita State, Creighton


Lets see, we get the brains from the east in Harvard and Yale, big name basketball teams in Memphis, Marquette and Louisville, big markets in BC, DePaul, Marquette, Butler and St Louis and we get a great road trip in UNLV. The Catholics are happy with BC, ND, MU, DePaul and X and the protestants got the other privates along with a gay guy named Bob.

I think everyone is happy. Is there anything I'm missing?

[Aegyptus]

Woah, I did not mean to cause trouble here on Valley talk, but if I did stir the conversation a little and give us something to talk about ... well that was the point I suppose. I don't mean to offend anybody.

Also, it was more than just 2 people advocating for SLU's inclusion. That is why I wanted to do the poll, to get the full population's opinions.

Also, I agree with goaces that being new has nothing to do with it. I have followed the Valley for over a decade now, so it is not like I do not know what is going on. Did it occur to anyone that new ideas might equal fresh ideas.

Finally, it is not like we are raving away about expansion. I have attempted to limit the conversation only to SLU with this thread because there seems to be mutual interest on both sides that have been reported in respectable newspapers. It is more than just rumor and speculation. Now, perhaps others do not trust the word of Bernie Miklasz, but having listened and read him for a long time, I do. Apparently others do to because as was posted earlier, it was also in the Peoria paper. If Bernie says Majerus wants in the Valley, I believe him. Also, Elgin has indicated they would be open to SLU joining. There is mutual interest and we are only addressing this situation. If you go back, it is other posters (perhaps older posters) that are giving wild speculations like the league going to 24, 16, 14 teams. Yes, I posted I would not mind seeing 16, so before you go back and quote that, I will admit it, but that was only as a fallout from SLU joining and bringing other A-10 teams with them.

Anyway, the expansion situation appears closer now than at any time since the whole ACC/Big East fiasco. Thus, the point of this thread and the continued interest in SLU. I wanted the debate to be about how to get SLU in, but apparently there is a good deal of hesitation in even including SLU. Thus, the poll would tell us the answer whether or not we even want SLU in the first place. Assuming Elgin and the other presidents don't care about our response, however, then we are back to the question of how does the SLU inclusion play out.

[DUBulldog]

Woah, I did not mean to cause trouble here on Valley talk, but if I did stir the conversation a little and give us something to talk about ... well that was the point I suppose. I don't mean to offend anybody.

Also, it was more than just 2 people advocating for SLU's inclusion. That is why I wanted to do the poll, to get the full population's opinions.

Also, I agree with goaces that being new has nothing to do with it. I have followed the Valley for over a decade now, so it is not like I do not know what is going on. Did it occur to anyone that new ideas might equal fresh ideas.


I don't think you've offended anybody.

But, I think you're misinterpreting what I was trying to say. In no way was I intending to say that new people have no right to voice their opinions, or that their opinions somehow carry less weight. I was just trying to provide a little historical perspective to the newer people in the discussion (not MVC history....ValleyTalk history). Nothing more. Nothing less. People who have been on this board for years know that the idea of expansion has been discussed to death over the years.

[DUBulldog]

Harvard, Yale, Notre Dame, BC, Evansville, Indiana State

Xavier, DePaul, St Louis, Butler, Southern Illinois, Bradley

Memphis, Marquette, Louisville, Illinois State, Northern Iowa, Drake

Tulsa, Oral Roberts, UNLV, Missouri State, Wichita State, Creighton


Lets see, we get the brains from the east in Harvard and Yale, big name basketball teams in Memphis, Marquette and Louisville, big markets in BC, DePaul, Marquette, Butler and St Louis and we get a great road trip in UNLV. The Catholics are happy with BC, ND, MU, DePaul and X and the protestants got the other privates along with a gay guy named Bob.

I think everyone is happy. Is there anything I'm missing?

I think you need to add Maharishi International University. They claim they can fly, so they should have a helluva basketball team.

[MoValley John]

I don't think you've offended anybody.

But, I think you're misinterpreting what I was trying to say. In no way was I intending to say that new people have no right to voice their opinions, or that their opinions somehow carry less weight. I was just trying to provide a little historical perspective to the newer people in the discussion (not MVC history....ValleyTalk history). Nothing more. Nothing less. People who have been on this board for years know that the idea has been discussed to death over the years.

I'm offended.

[MoValley John]

I think you need to add Maharishi International University. They claim they can fly, so they should have a helluva basketball team.

Okay, we'll toss out Xavier.

[DUBulldog]

I'm offensive.

fixed :original:

[SubGod22]

Just start the poll so they can see how lopsided the opinions are. From the past discussions over this it's pretty obvious that most of us are against expansion unless it brings in a team that can help take us to another level.

[MoValley John]

I'm offensive.
fixed :original:

Don't say that! I took a shower this morning so I know I don't smell and I've been going out of my way to avoid being a dick on the baseball forum. I am chomping at the bit to chime in and say: "They play baseball in college? Who woulda known! College baseball is boring and worthless and nobody outside of Wichita cares." But no! I've been a good little boy and kept my mouth shut. I'm offending nobody.

***DISCLAIMER*** These comments were written only to demonstrate how good I have been on ValleyTalk and in no way, are intended to start some lame-*** baseball arguement. So please, don't start.

[MoValley John]

Just start the poll so they can see how lopsided the opinions are. From the past discussions over this it's pretty obvious that most of us are against expansion unless it brings in a team that can help take us to another level.

Serious take:

What is wrong with building a league from within rather than trying to expand by adding teams in a patchwork manner? I think Creighton, Southern Illinois, Wichita State, Bradley, Northern Iowa and Missouri State are pretty talented teams and you would be hard pressed to find any team with the recent success as any of the above schools, willing to jump.

The goal should be to improve the top schools and close the gap at the bottom. The Valley is doing that. Continued success will make it more and more difficult to ignore the Valley.

Expanding as is being proposed, killed the WAC, and now we have the Mountain West. it's a risky proposition.

[SubGod22]

I agree John. Unless there was a can't miss school out there that wanted in I don't want to see us add another team. I think my list of acceptable schools is Kansas, Indiana, Iowa, Mizzou, Oklahoma and Arkansas. Outside of that I'm happy with what we have and look forward to seeing all programs continue to improve

[C0|db|00ded]

What about a poll for teams that want out of the Valley?


T


...:cool:

[DUBulldog]

What about a poll for teams that want out of the Valley?


T


...:cool:

Without football, where does WSU go? The only better conferences for basketball and/or baseball are the BCS football conferences.

[MoValley John]

Without football, where does WSU go? The only better conferences for basketball and/or baseball are the BCS football conferences.

I may be wrong, but he could have meant Evansville. Then again, why would Cold even waste his time with Evansville?

[C0|db|00ded]

Without football, where does WSU go? The only better conferences for basketball and/or baseball are the BCS football conferences.

Of course we would have to restart football. :original:


T


...:cool:

[DUBulldog]

Of course we would have to restart football. :original:


T


...:cool:

Is that still being discussed? Wasn't it the mayor of Wichita who brought it up a few years ago?

[MoValley John]

Of course we would have to restart football. :original:


T


...:cool:

http://www.westportnow.com/archives/wrappmakeadiff10240401pop.jpg

[C0|db|00ded]

Is that still being discussed? Wasn't it the mayor of Wichita who brought it up a few years ago?

There are a few vocal groups but nothing major has happened since the mayor stirred things up. Money is being raised but until Jim Schaus picks up the reigns things won't get off the ground.


T


...:cool:

[MoValley John]

There are a few vocal groups but nothing major has happened since the mayor stirred things up. Money is being raised but until Jim Schaus picks up the reigns things won't get off the ground.


T


...:cool:

Schaus taking the ball and running with it.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/photogalleries/stanfield/images/09_stanfield_fumble_74.jpg

[DUBulldog]

There are a few vocal groups

At what level do these groups want to bring back WSU football? And....do these groups have the $$$$$$$ to back it up? If they've got that kind of green, I could see it happening.

[C0|db|00ded]

At what level do these groups want to bring back WSU football? And....do these groups have the $$$$$$$ to back it up? If they've got that kind of green, I could see it happening.

Lots of rumors have floated about. Supposedly some with large sums of cash have been turned away by either the president or the A.D. The timing is not just right but there are plans by a few groups.

All the talk about WSU football is located here:

http://www.shockernet.net/sn/viewforum.php?f=4&sid=6226567b6e9e7a0e2ae7bc9d6279c32b


T


...:cool:

[C0|db|00ded]

Here is a rather controversial group trying to bring back football:

http://www.alumnishockerblackandgolds.com/

They are rather opinionated and have caused a bit of a stir with their secrecy and generally unfriendly public relations.


T


...:cool:

[Aegyptus]

Apparently the rumor is not dying. Here is an article from Vahe Gregorian, the Post Dispatch college guy, whose writing I like. He has given quite a bit of press to the Salukis and Mo. State in the past couple of years. Here is the relevant section, although the whole article is not that bad and Bruce Rasmussen (along with Elgin) is quoted quite bit:

Majerus' hiring and the impending opening of an $80 million campus arena, Missouri Valley Conference commissioner Doug Elgin said, figure to "change everything for St. Louis University. Not just basketball, but the profile of the university."

Another drastic change in the landscape could be part of his instant impact. Majerus is believed to be pushing a SLU move from the Atlantic 10 to the MVC. Elgin played down such talk and spoke of his respect for the A-10 and protocol but added, "I can't imagine there is an institution that is a more perfect fit for our schools."

Here is a link (http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/sports/stories.nsf/slu/story/A6A0CD1A029FF469862572CD000E0E62?OpenDocument) to the whole article. At the press conference today, I am sure someone will ask about it. His (and Biondi's) response will be interesting. Probably they will praise the A-10 and all, but it will be interesting to see if they open a little window. A statement like "the Missouri Valley is a good conference and we respect their accomplishments" I think would show their interest. Anyway, this thing with SLU is not going to go away.

[DUBulldog]

At the press conference today, I am sure someone will ask about it. His (and Biondi's) response will be interesting. Probably they will praise the A-10 and all, but it will be interesting to see if they open a little window. A statement like "the Missouri Valley is a good conference and we respect their accomplishments" I think would show their interest. Anyway, this thing with SLU is not going to go away.

If it is brought up at the press conference, and they give any response short of guaranteeing they're staying in the A-10; I would read that as an indication that they're looking to move.

[Shox21]

It's also a little bewildering to me as to why some posters think it's that big a deal of SLU being the "home" team for Arch Madness. Folks the MVC school's who are HOT are going to have fanbases that will STILL be ravenous for those hot Valley tourney tickets. Each MVC school will be well resprented fanwise, thus negating much (if not about all) any "home" city advantage.

Why is it so bewildering to you? Each MVC school may be well represented at earlier games, but the closer you get to the championship game (and this is the TV game) and the other teams are eliminated and their fans go home and don't stay for the champtionship game, you generally get down to fan bases for the two remaining schools. I don't see where you can say that it would not be a "home team" advantage if one of those two remaining schools was SLU. All the remaining seats would be filled with St. Louis residents as they usually are now, the difference being they would now have a home team to cheer for. We have enough "home town" to contend with when SIU gets to the championship game. No offense intended to SIU but they are the closest school to St. Louis and have far less traveling time to get there. Do you think it fair to any of the other Conference members to have the tournament in one of the team's actual home towns?

[valleyclimber]

Shox21, so you're saying that last season's record breaking MVC tourney championship attendence was SIU and CU fans ONLY with the rest made up of St. Louis citizens? Hmmmm...not so sure about that at all. I know plenty of fans who buy the Valley tourney package and STAY for all the games. What you're saying is that fans from every other team thats been eliminated just pack up their bags and skip the rest of the tourney. IMHO that's maybe not so accurate.

It's Arch Madness in St. Louis, and the tourney has become WILDLY sucessful there. I'm pretty sure that if any other school that would possibly go up against SLU would have a HUGE group of fans there. And who knows the other Valley school's fans just might even root against the "home" city Billikens.

Just putting it out there....who knows? :valley:

[Lurking Dog]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LB2ZQHm1aUk

[Lurking Dog]

"Sa-Lou" ???

***

[Aegyptus]

Thanks for the link. Biondi's introduction is all there, but not all of Rick's remarks, and no questions (if they took questions).

Here is a quote from Biondi, however:

"Over the last week much has been written, some of it was speculation and rumor, some of it was nonsense, and some of it was factual."

Wonder which category the Valley stuff fit into. The nonsense stuff probably refers to a feud he is/was having with Bernie Mikalasz of the Post-Dispatch. I certainly wonder what the "factual" part was. Seems like an odd statement a little. Obviously, it is factual that Majerus was a former coach at Ball State, but I do not think that was what Biondi was referring to.

[MoValley John]

It's Official!
link (http://stljoinsthevalley.com)

[MoValley John]

Sorry. I just like typing "It's Official!"

[Nyghtewynd]

If the MVC tournament keeps selling out ahead of time, I wouldn't be that worried about SLU. If you don't get in on your team's allottment, you aren't getting in the building anyway. Besides, if you're going to oppose SLU entering the MVC, there are a lot of *good* reasons to do so.

[rjl]

The MVC tournament did NOT sell out ahead of time, unless by "ahead of time" you mean 1 minute before tip off.

Sure, there were some fans from schools who'd already been eliminated that stayed and watched the championship game. I was one.

But you CANNOT tell me that the attendance at the semifinal and championship games was made up of fans somewhat evenly distributed from all Valley schools, unless you are telling me that these fans also have plenty of SIU sweatshirts and hats that they like wearing whenever they see fit.

SIU fans were there in abundance on Saturday and Sunday, buying up all the GA tickets and ones from those who no longer wanted theirs. I had one offer me $100 for mine on Saturday.

Put SLU in the MVC Tournament too, and it's going to be a SIU/SLU lovefest.

No thanks.

If SLU was to enter the Valley, either take the MVC Tourney out of St. Louis or make it a traveling affair.

[Aegyptus]

CBSSportsline.com is running a story titled "Saint Louis, Please Hook Up With the Missouri Valley." Story Here (http://www.sportsline.com/collegebasketball/story/10159065).

The whole article is good and on point, so I suggest reading it, but this is the paragraph that will stir up the most debate:

Bottom line, for SLU this should be an easy decision. It's a perfect fit, the kind that's so perfect the MVC would almost certainly add SLU as an 11th member even though an 11th member creates some less-than-ideal scheduling scenarios, the kind that make going to a 20-game conference schedule the only way to maintain balance. On the bright side, it could be what prompts the MVC to then move for a 12th member, perhaps Butler, Western Kentucky or Tulsa.

We have retreaded this issue many times now, but Gary Parrish thought he would weigh in. Anyway, the media seems to clearly favor joining the MVC. All the St. Louis media and now some national media.

Enjoy.

[rjl]

If we were definitely going to 12, I'd be for adding Tulsa again (even though they just left the Valley 10 years ago) just because it'd be nice to have a road game I could see in under a 5 hour one-way drive.

They take football pretty seriously, though, as that's the primary reason they left the Valley.

[Shox21]

The MVC tournament did NOT sell out ahead of time, unless by "ahead of time" you mean 1 minute before tip off.

Sure, there were some fans from schools who'd already been eliminated that stayed and watched the championship game. I was one.

But you CANNOT tell me that the attendance at the semifinal and championship games was made up of fans somewhat evenly distributed from all Valley schools, unless you are telling me that these fans also have plenty of SIU sweatshirts and hats that they like wearing whenever they see fit.

SIU fans were there in abundance on Saturday and Sunday, buying up all the GA tickets and ones from those who no longer wanted theirs. I had one offer me $100 for mine on Saturday.

Put SLU in the MVC Tournament too, and it's going to be a SIU/SLU lovefest.

No thanks.

If SLU was to enter the Valley, either take the MVC Tourney out of St. Louis or make it a traveling affair.

Thanks rjl. You made my point only it came out much clearer from someone who had been there, done that. I didn't stay for the Sunday game, so really couldn't put a personal "yes, I know it was this way" touch to it, but saw a lot of other team's supporters hit the road early as well. And it's bad enough that SIU is just "down the road" -- I really don't want the tournament in another team's back yard. Now, if they want to discuss moving the tournament to KC or Chicago, okay, I'll listen. Would rather it be KC though.

[Mick Taylor]

For the umpteenth time, Tulsa and Western Kentucky are NOT candidates for Valley expansion because of Division I football. That is why Tulsa left in the first place.

Pretty sad that Gary Parrish didn't recognize that in his story.

[Lurking Dog]

For those of you who favor letting St. Louis in, would you want them as an 11th member, with a 20-game MVC schedule. Or would you want the Billikens and someone else (total of 12 members), with divisions and a Big 12-style 16-game league schedule (one game a year against teams in the other division)?

[Aegyptus]

Well, DUBulldog and others, here is the word from the press conference about conference affiliation from Jeff Gordon, Post Dispatch:

* Does he want SLU to remain in the Atlantic 10? He hemmed and hawed on that, in part because conference commissioner Linda Bruno was on hand.

“We’re committed to it as we speak,” Majerus said. He alluded to potential shifting of conference affiliations in the future, though.


The conference commissioner was on hand and he hemmed, hawed, and alluded to potential shifting of conferences in the future...

THEY ARE INTERESTED IN MOVING, OFFICIALLY.

Here is the link to the full article: (http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/sports/columnists.nsf/jeffgordon/story/861E9FF680AAF058862572CD00604E21?OpenDocument)

[STLfan]

Thought you guys might find this interesting. cbs.sportsline is begging SLU to join the Valley.

http://cbs.sportsline.com/collegebasketball/story/10159065

[goaces]

CBSSportsline.com is running a story titled "Saint Louis, Please Hook Up With the Missouri Valley." Story Here (http://www.sportsline.com/collegebasketball/story/10159065).

The whole article is good and on point, so I suggest reading it, but this is the paragraph that will stir up the most debate:



We have retreaded this issue many times now, but Gary Parrish thought he would weigh in. Anyway, the media seems to clearly favor joining the MVC. All the St. Louis media and now some national media.

Enjoy.
Thanks for all the info Aeg. I am glad to know that good Valley fans as yourself "get it" when it comes in understanding all that SLU brings to the table. I understand the arguements both ways....which is why it so difficult for me to understand the naysayers. But the facts remain the same, and Doug Elgin and the league's AD's understand this even better than we do. :valley: :clap: :valley: :yes:

[SubGod22]

Nothing in that article says why it would be a good move for the Valley. Sure, it would be good for SLU, but I don't care about SLU. I care about the Valley.

[Nyghtewynd]

Nothing in that article says why it would be a good move for the Valley. Sure, it would be good for SLU, but I don't care about SLU. I care about the Valley.

*DING*

We have a winner! All of these articles talk about how great it would be for SLU to join the MVC. There is very little as to how SLU would benefit the MVC. That's because there's very little benefit that the MVC would gain from this. It'd also benefit SLU to join the Big 10...maybe they should try that.

[BearsCountry]

If I was WKU and SLU got added to the MVC I would be so ticked off. SLU not accepting the Valley's invite the first time basically caused them to upgrade their football in try to get a better league. Also we could have had MVC by now as well.

[global b-ball]

I believe the St. Louis / MVC talk is more St. Louis media wishing than fact.

St. Louis will work to make the A-10 better and/or in 4-5 years they will be part of a new conference consisting of some A-10 private schools and some Big-East non-football private schools.

The Valley doesn't need St. Louis. All Valley teams are better than St. Louis.

I have heard that Drake and Indiana State have only had four winning seasons in the past 25 years. Can this possibly be true?

Also, heard that UNI and Evansville have had losing seasons for the majority of the time they have been in the Valley. True?

If the above records are true, than 40% of the Valley needs some work.

[Hail Red & White]

I wouldn't necessarily mind seeing St. Louis come to the MVC if all parties were on board with the idea (SLU, MVC, A-10). I would be concerned with the Billikens' penchant for jumping conference ships that take on a little water (7 leagues in the last 34 years). I can't speak for the A-10, but I think most Valley administrators would welcome the Bills with open arms. But, another issue that will continue to dog the NCAA until they get a grip on it is how to treat the annual exodus of schools from Division 2 to Division 1 status. With the conference moratorium of 31 automatic bids for the D-1 tournament, there is no way for schools to form new affiliations. Therefore, conferences have little choice but to expand and thereby get forced into the dilemma of unbalanced conference scheduling. As I see it now, the only 2 conferences that will NOT be expanding or contracting in the future are the Ivy League and the West Coast Conference. To alleviate this, the NCAA may allow for more conferences to be formed and keep the current 31 auto-bid structure, but instead of 1 preliminary round game, expand it to 4 so you'd have a 68-team tournament.

[Aegyptus]

I wouldn't necessarily mind seeing St. Louis come to the MVC if all parties were on board with the idea (SLU, MVC, A-10). I would be concerned with the Billikens' penchant for jumping conference ships that take on a little water (7 leagues in the last 34 years). I can't speak for the A-10, but I think most Valley administrators would welcome the Bills with open arms. But, another issue that will continue to dog the NCAA until they get a grip on it is how to treat the annual exodus of schools from Division 2 to Division 1 status. With the conference moratorium of 31 automatic bids for the D-1 tournament, there is no way for schools to form new affiliations. Therefore, conferences have little choice but to expand and thereby get forced into the dilemma of unbalanced conference scheduling. As I see it now, the only 2 conferences that will NOT be expanding or contracting in the future are the Ivy League and the West Coast Conference. To alleviate this, the NCAA may allow for more conferences to be formed and keep the current 31 auto-bid structure, but instead of 1 preliminary round game, expand it to 4 so you'd have a 68-team tournament.

I suppose you mean that the you could go to a 34 auto-bid structure then? Interesting idea. I agree there are too many teams that are going D-I. For god's sake, SIU-Edwardsville is going D-I. It is a regional campus of SIU. It is a growing campus (and really beautiful, if you get a chance drive through) but it is not even close to D-I. I assume they will look to join the Mid-Con, which seems to be willing to take all comers, but they do not belong yet. Perhaps we should do something like the European Soccer Leagues where teams/conferences can play their way into DI and the teams/conferences at the bottom have to go back to D-II. There is seriously way too many teams. Every year over 1/2 the teams start the season with no reasonable chance to make the dance. And probably less than a 1/4 of the teams start the season with any reasonable chance to actually win a game in the dance.