Article imploring SLU to move to the Valley

[SLUDrew]

http://cbs.sportsline.com/collegebasketball/story/10159065

As is obvious by my handle, I am a SLU alum/fan/ season-ticket holder and wanted to get some feedback from Valley fans about the potential of SLU moving to the Valley.

Personally, I am for remaining in allegiance with Dayton, Xavier, and St. Joe's, but could honestly do without the rest of the A-10. That being said, I am not sold on the Valley being an ideal fit for SLU either.

By the way, please spare me the "why would we want SLU they would only bring the Valley down" nonsense. I know I am only speaking to a minority when I say that, but that statement is so illogical that it borders on the ridiculous. In fact, the author of the article above notes that even if it means an unbalanced schedule, the Valley should welcome SLU.

SLU is building a new arena, and has hired one of the biggest names in college basketball to be its new head coach. Even if Majerus only stays for a few years, he will have elevated SLU's exposure to a level never before enjoyed (the article was above was written within 3 hours of Majerus being officially named head coach) and his hiring shows that SLU is willing to do what it takes to succeed (his salary is rumored to be over $1 million per for 6 years). St. Louis would also represent the biggest market in the Valley by a pretty large margin.

Like I said, I have no desire to leave X, Dayton, and St. Joe's, but if things don't drastically change in the A-10 SLU may be looking for another home. We would all love a Catholic league with other non-football private schools (X, Dayton, St. Joe's, Marquette, Creighton, DePaul) but short of the Big East going "football only" that isn't going to happen. At that point maybe a move to the Valley makes a lot of sense for both SLU and the conference.

One thing I can say for sure, Doug Elgin is FAR AND AWAY a better commissioner than Linda Bruno and that aspect alone makes the Valley attractive.

[Lurking Dog]

We would all love a Catholic league with other non-football private schools (X, Dayton, St. Joe's, Marquette, Creighton, DePaul) ...

Good shot, Drew! :yes:

:bulldogs:

[goaces]

Honestly, I am not trying to be a smart alleck...I really do mean that. But if you don't already see the relevance for SLU joining the MVC that I think you may be wasting your time on this forum. Good Luck to the Bilikins! :valley:

[Angrybluejaydan]

We already have alot of teams with blue and white for colors. Creighton's fight song is "The White and The Blue". (Just kidding!!!!!!!!!!!)

I for one feel a move by SLU to the MVC would be great for the MVC, with or without Majerus. BTW, congrats! This is a big day for you folks.

I haven't see any polling done on here or at Creighton's message board, "The Bluejay Cafe". There has been alot discussion. I have been for the expansion with a 20 game conference schedule and have been posting that way.

Hope you guys come on over.

[Lurking Dog]

We already have alot of teams with blue and white for colors. Creighton's fight song is "The White and The Blue". (Just kidding!!!!!!!!!!!)

Well, no kidding here...

Fight! Fight! on you Bulldogs,
fight for old D.U.
Carry high our colors, win for
White and Blue
Fight! Fight on you Bulldogs,
we depend on you,
Like all good Drakes, you've got
what it takes,
Our honor's at stake,
So you'll have to make
A victory for old D.U.

--("Fight for Old D.U., author unknown)

[AcePurpleFan]

Too bad SLU picked the A-10... now live with it. The article suggested SLU get a divorce from the A-10, but Catholic's don't believe in divorce. The Valley can't handle another eqo the size of SLU's, we already have WSU to deal with! :lol:

[LincolnJay]

Splitting the NCAA money between 11 teams versus 10 without the aura of bringing along another potential at-large bid for the conference makes no sense whether St Louis or anyone else. If someone leaves the Valley, St Louis is a fine school to look at as a possible replacement but the discussion is silly until that point.

An All Catholic League would be sweet but will never happen - too bad.

I doubt Majerus is there long enough to pull a Mamma Cass ham sandwich stunt. Speaking of which, perhaps the funniest thing I have ever seen was Benoit Benjamin one year sitting out a game {can't remember why at this point} and sitting on the bench in his fine, purple velvetene jacket and, after taking a long look down the bench at Willis Reed to make sure he wasn't looking, pulling out a Baby Ruth from the coat and munchin on it, HAHAHA, classic - another person who had a weight problem.

[Aegyptus]

Drew, if you are looking for Valley fans to fawn and stumble over ourselves welcoming SLU, well, you got another thing coming, and, frankly, you deserve it. You were too good for the Valley a couple of years ago. Now, the Valley is consistently better than the A-10 and suddenly you think we will welcome you with open arms? Forget it.

If you haven't noticed, there is already serious debate about this issue on other threads with a clear split in philosophy. I have been in support of SLU's inclusion from the beginning as I think it is a good move for the Valley. But, I think everyone on this board would agree that the Valley does not need SLU. We can put 4 teams in the dance on our own. SLU is having trouble even reaching the dance, and as Majerus said, there are no new recruits to be had, so I am not really liking your chances in the next couple of years.

Frankly, it is that kind of attitude (I still like the A-10 but I would like to sleep around and try out the other girls a little just in case they are better) that is going to turn me off from SLU's inclusion. SLU is only a good expansion prospect if they are a long term expansion prospect. It is no secret that SLU changes conferences often. If SLU comes into this with a "we are better than you attitude," then you might as well forget it. As you stated, Elgin is one smart guy and he knows it is SLU that needs the Valley, not the other way around. Yes, it is possible that we can mutually benefit, but only if SLU is a content member of the league and shares in the Valley's successes like everyone else does. SIU and Creighton hate each other during the regular season, but they root like hell for each other outside of that. If SLU does not want to fit into that mold, then we don't want you.

Now, if you are serious and want to talk about how SLU fits nicely in the Valley and how you are excited about joining the Valley, then you have my full support as well as the support of a good deal of this board and probably many other Valley fans. But, if you come with this arrogant we are better than you mentality ... then enjoy the doldrums of the A-10.

[SubGod22]

SLU moving to the Valley makes a lot of sense for them. The Valley taking SLU doesn't make near as much sense for the Valley. If we want to add a team for some reason at least add someone who would finish in the upper half of the conference. I don't see that with SLU.

[REALBird]

Drew,

I don't think that it's that far of a stretch to ask "Why would we want SLU?" I'm not going to say that they would bring the Valley down, but what do they really offer the Valley that we don't already have?

We have a tournament site that won't double as your home court in a few short years.

We set attendance records for the MVC tournament in each of the past few years, and it seems to only get better.

Our coverage has increased on Fox Sports, The ESPN/ABC networks, and CBS...and thus far it appears to be a better package than what I see from the A-10. BTW, what channel is the A-10 final televised on? ESPN 8?

We have a true round-robin format where each team plays other in conference teams twice a year. None of that odd Big Ten scheduling crap.

So you guys are getting a NEW arena....wow! Wasn't Saavis new when you moved in? Let's see The Roundhouse was recently renovated. We have the Qwest Center in Omaha which is still a fairly new building. The McLeod Center at UNI is pretty darn nice! Did I mention it was new? Missouri State will be opening the brand new John Q. Hammons Arena, (whispering......it's going to be new!) SIU is planning on renovating SIU arena as part of Saluki Way. Bradley fans, should we tell this guy about Peoria's plans to update the Civic Center/Carver Arena? ISU just added new video boards, a new strength and conditioning center, has plans to renovate the exterior of Redbird Arena. It won't be new....but it'll have (whispering again.....new stuff). But hey....good luck with that NEW arena. I'm sure it'll probably have that NEW ARENA smell, just like new cars have that NEW CAR smell. And when your friends come from Rhode Island, you can show them how you went from a luxury sedan to that wonderful on-campus hybrid economy vehicle.

Furthermore, we don't have to worry about a school that has an identity and commitment issues just looking to joining for the interim, all while casting an eye toward Marquette and DePaul hoping that their relationship with the Big East fails, like some jilted lover!

You guys picked the A-10 over the Valley, and while I won't object if you guys somehow get let in through the servants entrance....I'm not going to lose any sleep over your current situation either.

In this world of everyone uses everyone.....You guys might think coming to the Valley would be rectifying your horrible decision to play East Coast basketball. Mr. Elgin might feel that your presence, IF you can compete... might be enough to FURTHER elevate the conference presence on the national scene. Notice I said, FURTHER elevate! Because we're doing a good job in your own back yard without you!

At the end of the day....let's just say it's nice to be in the position where we can say....."Don't call us, we'll call you!"

[SLUDrew]

"SLU moving to the Valley makes a lot of sense for them. The Valley taking SLU doesn't make near as much sense for the Valley. If we want to add a team for some reason at least add someone who would finish in the upper half of the conference. I don't see that with SLU."

This is non-sensical. SLU split with Mo State and SIU over the last two years. We are returning four starters from a 20 win team, have hired a premier coach, and are moving into a new arena prior to the 2008 season. You are slightly delusional about the Valley if you don't think SLU could join in a couple years and be at least a threat to finish in the top two or three teams in the league.

[C0|db|00ded]

"SLU moving to the Valley makes a lot of sense for them. The Valley taking SLU doesn't make near as much sense for the Valley. If we want to add a team for some reason at least add someone who would finish in the upper half of the conference. I don't see that with SLU."

This is non-sensical. SLU split with Mo State and SIU over the last two years. We are returning four starters from a 20 win team, have hired a premier coach, and are moving into a new arena prior to the 2008 season. You are slightly delusional about the Valley if you don't think SLU could join in a couple years and be at least a threat to finish in the top two or three teams in the league.

You are slightly delusional about the Valley if you don't think SLU could join in a couple years and be at least a threat to finish in the top two or three teams in the league.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


T


...:cool:

[MoValley John]

"SLU moving to the Valley makes a lot of sense for them. The Valley taking SLU doesn't make near as much sense for the Valley. If we want to add a team for some reason at least add someone who would finish in the upper half of the conference. I don't see that with SLU."

This is non-sensical. SLU split with Mo State and SIU over the last two years. We are returning four starters from a 20 win team, have hired a premier coach, and are moving into a new arena prior to the 2008 season. You are slightly delusional about the Valley if you don't think SLU could join in a couple years and be at least a threat to finish in the top two or three teams in the league.

You don't even want to bring that lame-arse 20 win arguement up with Missouri State fans. :lol:

[Aegyptus]

This is non-sensical. SLU split with Mo State and SIU over the last two years. We are returning four starters from a 20 win team, have hired a premier coach, and are moving into a new arena prior to the 2008 season. You are slightly delusional about the Valley if you don't think SLU could join in a couple years and be at least a threat to finish in the top two or three teams in the league.

Only some are saying that SLU will not compete. I think they will and I think they will finish in the top 1/2 of the Valley consistently after the first year.

But, you have not played the Valley schedule. You have no idea how hard it is to travel to Evansville and win. Laugh if you want to, but ask your phat new coach whether he will schedule a road game at Evansville. I promise he will say no because it is 50/50 at best that you will come out with a win. Then you consider road games at Northern Iowa, Bradley, Missouri State, Wichita State, Creighton, and SIU ... well, that is at least 5 and probably 6 losses right there for this SLU team, I don't care who the coach is.

Remember, this is coming from someone that WANTS SLU to join. I think that in a few years, SLU could be competing with the best in the Valley. Certainly you have put up the resources to do so. But if you think you are going to walk into Carbondale and get a win (the Salukis have lost 3 home games in 6 years), you are mistaken. It doesn't matter how fancy your arena is, it is not going to win you games in your first couple of years until Majerus gets some decent recruits to come. If you are looking at moving to the Valley over the long term, I like your chances. I would even imagine you would win the Valley Championship once in your first 6-10 years.

But, currently, I would put SLU's program on par with Northern Iowa's program. Your RPI's, strength of schedule, and wins and losses were pretty similar last year. Northern Iowa finished a distant 5th in the Valley. That should give you some idea of your current place in the Valley if you were a member last year. Could you be competing for the top 2-3 spots in the Valley in a couple of years. Yes, quite possibly. But, right now, you are a middle of the pack Valley team. In the long run, I believe that SLU will be one of the top 3-4 teams in the Valley if you join and stay. A new rivalry between you, Creighton, SIU, Mo. State, Wichita, Bradley, etc. really, really excites me and I think that could be a lot of fun and good for the Valley at the same time. I hope you join, but SLU is going to have to lose the attitude.

[Dawgbit]

At least Majerus knows enough to recognize a good conference when he sees one.

Or maybe his ample-arse just cannot take those 2.5 hour plame rides to away games?

I loved this from Parrish: "The Gateway to Relevance, anybody?"

[Mikovio]

How do you win 20 games and not even get invited to the NIT?

Anyone?

Play in the Atlantic-10.

Thank you, thank you. Try the veal.....

[AcePurpleFan]

"SLU moving to the Valley makes a lot of sense for them. The Valley taking SLU doesn't make near as much sense for the Valley. If we want to add a team for some reason at least add someone who would finish in the upper half of the conference. I don't see that with SLU."

This is non-sensical. SLU split with Mo State and SIU over the last two years. We are returning four starters from a 20 win team, have hired a premier coach, and are moving into a new arena prior to the 2008 season. You are slightly delusional about the Valley if you don't think SLU could join in a couple years and be at least a threat to finish in the top two or three teams in the league.


There's that arrogance again. What makes you think you could compete in the Valley? Aegyptus is exactly right. There are no easy wins in this conference. Just ask SIU or MSU how they liked playing Evansville this year. The only thing that is delusional is you thinking your new Areana will somehow propel you to becoming a good basketball team. How did SLU do in the A-10 last year? OHHH.. I just happen to have it right here....

Massachusetts 13 3 .812 24 9 .727
Xavier 13 3 .812 25 9 .735
George Washington 11 5 .688 23 9 .719
Fordham 10 6 .625 18 12 .600
Rhode Island 10 6 .625 19 14 .576
Saint Joseph's 9 7 .562 18 14 .562
Dayton 8 8 .500 19 12 .613
Saint Louis 8 8 .500 20 13 .606
Charlotte 7 9 .438 14 16 .467
Duquesne 6 10 .375 10 19 .345
Temple 6 10 .375 12 18 .400
Richmond 4 12 .250 8 22 .267
St. Bonaventure 4 12 .250 7 22 .241
La Salle 3 13 .188 10 20 .333

[DawgieStyle]

my mantra:

Screw SLU

[mid-major fan]

We don't know for sure how SLU would do in the Valley but we do know that Elgin - and I strongly suspect a majority of the current members - want SLU to join the Valley. We also know that the President of SLU has historically had NO INTEREST in joining the Valley. What we don't know - or at least what I don't know - is whether the President has changed his mind about the Valley now that he has hired a "celebrity coach".

[Nyghtewynd]

This is non-sensical. SLU went 1-3 against MSU and SIU and stole one with one ginormous screw job.

Fixed. And if you think SLU could finish in the top three of this conference, you're delusional. SLU would be a play-in round staple in the MVC.

[XSaluki]

How do you win 20 games and not even get invited to the NIT?

Anyone?

Play in the Atlantic-10.

Thank you, thank you. Try the veal.....

:lol::lol:

[shockball]

SLU's 20 win season was good for an RPI of 74 (kenpom). That is fifth in the MVC. 36 spots behind 4th place Bradley and 10 spots ahead of UNI. SLU's overall strenghth of schedule would improve by moving to a stronger conference but the OOC needs some work (7th). St. Louis has more to gain than the MVC.

The city of St. Louis brings a larger market but how does it support SLU? I don't think they are the lead story on the Post Dispatch often enough. MVC games already have a steady diet of ESPN coverage.

The Billikens have to bring something to the table. I don't think the MVC needs to look for a new member.

[BearChief]

This is non-sensical. SLU split with Mo State and SIU over the last two years. We are returning four starters from a 20 win team, have hired a premier coach, and are moving into a new arena prior to the 2008 season. You are slightly delusional about the Valley if you don't think SLU could join in a couple years and be at least a threat to finish in the top two or three teams in the league.

First of all, I'm for SLU joining the league. That said, your 20 win team last year wouldn't have finished in the top 5 of the MVC. Congrats on "beating" MSU on their worst performance of the season, but SLU would consistently be a 5 or 6 seed in the MVC tourney.

[da_bears]

"SLU moving to the Valley makes a lot of sense for them. The Valley taking SLU doesn't make near as much sense for the Valley. If we want to add a team for some reason at least add someone who would finish in the upper half of the conference. I don't see that with SLU."

This is non-sensical. SLU split with Mo State and SIU over the last two years. We are returning four starters from a 20 win team, have hired a premier coach, and are moving into a new arena prior to the 2008 season. You are slightly delusional about the Valley if you don't think SLU could join in a couple years and be at least a threat to finish in the top two or three teams in the league.

I'm pretty sure if you look at the tapes closely you will see the last time you beat Mo State was in 2000.

[goaces]

I'm pretty sure if you look at the tapes closely you will see the last time you beat Mo State was in 2000.


Very cool, DaBears!!!! That was funny!!!:aces: :valley: :bears:

[SLUDrew]

Well, I thought I could get an intelligent discourse started on this topic but all I received was "SLU cannot compete", "SLU would be in the bottom half of the Valley" type BS.

Its interesting how you go having having contempt for coaches in the BCS conferences that make such comments about the Valley to doing the very same thing yourselves. Only the BCS coaches actually have a leg to stand on in their rants about the Valley. What has the Valley accomplished to become so arrogant?

Again, I don't understand the resentment towards SLU on this board. My comments were met with "you are en elitist SLU fan" when all I said was it is non-sensical to say SLU brings nothing to the Valley and would not compete in the Valley.

Like i said, I don't know that the Valley is right for SLU either. There aren't a lot of like-minded institutions, and I don't know that is would be good for SLU in the long run, but I thought it could at least be discussed

[DB for POY]

Well, I thought I could get an intelligent discourse started on this topic but all I received was "SLU cannot compete", "SLU would be in the bottom half of the Valley" type BS.

Its interesting how you go having having contempt for coaches in the BCS conferences that make such comments about the Valley to doing the very same thing yourselves. Only the BCS coaches actually have a leg to stand on in their rants about the Valley. What has the Valley accomplished to become so arrogant?

Again, I don't understand the resentment towards SLU on this board. My comments were met with "you are en elitist SLU fan" when all I said was it is non-sensical to say SLU brings nothing to the Valley and would not compete in the Valley.

Like i said, I don't know that the Valley is right for SLU either. There aren't a lot of like-minded institutions, and I don't know that is would be good for SLU in the long run, but I thought it could at least be discussed
I guess you won't be happy until all Valley fans tell you how great SLU is. I did not see anyone say SLU would finish at the bottom every year, like you suggest BCS teams say to Valley teams. There are plenty of teams that compete for the top in the Valley every year and others that have their cycles. What makes you think SLU will be a team that competes every year? SLU's recent history?

[Ron Mexico]

Thanks...but no thanks.

You had your chance and a good amount of your fans bad mouthed many Missouri State fans when we laughed at the selection of the A-10 over a conference such as the MVC. Your fanbase (billikenroy for the most part) has talked down to our schools, and the quality of our teams for years on the StL Today boards.

Live with your decision.

I think at this point you should be more worried about getting bigger seats, supports, etc. for the chairs on your bench.

[Divergence]

Well, I thought I could get an intelligent discourse started on this topic but all I received was "SLU cannot compete", "SLU would be in the bottom half of the Valley" type BS.

I have no idea whether SLU would or would not compete, but who cares anyway - SLU is not wanted.

[Aegyptus]

Well, I thought I could get an intelligent discourse started on this topic but all I received was "SLU cannot compete", "SLU would be in the bottom half of the Valley" type BS.

Its interesting how you go having having contempt for coaches in the BCS conferences that make such comments about the Valley to doing the very same thing yourselves. Only the BCS coaches actually have a leg to stand on in their rants about the Valley. What has the Valley accomplished to become so arrogant?

Again, I don't understand the resentment towards SLU on this board. My comments were met with "you are en elitist SLU fan" when all I said was it is non-sensical to say SLU brings nothing to the Valley and would not compete in the Valley.

Like i said, I don't know that the Valley is right for SLU either. There aren't a lot of like-minded institutions, and I don't know that is would be good for SLU in the long run, but I thought it could at least be discussed

Alright, enough is enough for my part.

But, you can't tell us SLU did not earn that tar and feathering they just got. So, I am sorry it had to come at your expense, but you were the first one to come on here with that arrogant attitude that so many SLU people possess. You tell us (1) I like the A-10, (2) I prefer a Catholic league, and finally (3) if neither of those work out for us, I would like to have the Valley to fall back on. It is off putting and it hits a nerve with us Valley folk that constantly get disrespected. Now, finally, we are in a slight position of power, so we are going to have our revenge ... at your expense if nothing else.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9a/1774_lynching.jpg

So, with the tar and feathering over for my part, I am ready to have that intelligent discourse you speak of (whether intelligent discourse is possible on message boards, of course, requires a different intelligent discourse, but one we will put off for now).

So, here are some questions that I think some Valley folk have that perhaps you could shed some light on:

First, will SLU jump leagues five years from now if it joins the MVC? Is it SLU's ultimate desire to be with larger city based teams like Xavier, Marquette, Memphis, etc or would you be content with Southern Illinois, Missouri State, Bradley even if the competition level was the same?

Second, when is Biondi going to retire? With a few exceptions our university presidents are not tyrannical madmen as Biondi often appears to be. How would he interact with the Valley. Given that it is based in Saint Louis, would he try to take control of it as well?

Third, are SLU fans going to accept the change. Intelligent sports people and media (both local and national) understand the Valley is a better fit for SLU. Is the average Central West End resident going to accept that? Are they going to come out and watch Northern Iowa? Or are they too good for that?

Fourth, relatedly, will Valley membership increase attendance at SLU? I know you were in the Kiel (sorry I will always call it that) and that may have hampered attendance, but if you want to be a top notch member of the Valley, you have to fill that new 10,000 seat arena you are building most nights.

Fifth, will the average fan watch Billiken and other Valley games on FSN, ESPN? Having the larger TV market may help us get more initial contracts, but those contracts will only be renewed for top dollar if people in Saint Louis are actually tuning in, along with the rest of the Valley. I make it a point to watch the Mo State - Wichita game on FSN or ESPN, even though I am a Saluki fan because I know it helps the Valley and, frankly, I am interested. Do you see the slightly stronger than average SLU fan functioning in the same manner?

Sixth (and this one may be more for my own edification than others), will SLU see itself and function within the conference on academic matters? Will you see SIU and Creighton as peer institutions of learning?

And, finally, Seventh, are you going to either lose that arrogant attitude or, just as well, turn that arrogant attitude into the type of arrogance that was so rudely elicited upon you today? It is fine to be self confident. This year I would put SIU against any team, any place, any time. That is confidence and arrogance, maybe even a bit misplaced, that is sort of healthy. Can SLU have that type of arrogance instead?

Anyway, those are plenty to get started. I am sure SLU fans have questions for the Valley and at least some of us would be interested in having an intelligent discourse on those too. Seriously, I think you will find the Valley quite welcoming if everything starts to fall into place (which from the press conference today, does not seem that far off). We are just protective of our success and camaraderie. The 10 current Valley teams have rebuilt this league together and their fans are not going to see some fly by night school come break that apart. But, as you said and as Elgin has said and as many on this board have said, SLU would be a nice addition if we can iron out the issues. So, let's have at it.

[douglasdmb]

What has the Valley accomplished to become so arrogant?

Not THAT much, but more than SLU has that would allow you to be so arrogant.

Again, I don't understand the resentment towards SLU on this board.

Example: http://www.valleytalk.net/showthread.php?t=2738&highlight=%22SLU+fans%22

Most of us who have come across SLU fans have had bad experiences. I know that you shouldn't judge a school/program based on a couple of bad fans, but that's just how it goes.

Oh, and as a St. Louis native, I also wouldn't totally mind SLU joining the Valley.

[goaces]

Drew, if you look long and hard at what you wrote on your initial post, how would you have expected people to approach that? Again, I resort to what I initially conveyed to you. If you don't already see or understand the advantage or relevance of SLU joining the Valley this isn't the forum for you. To say it another way might be, that, if I have to tell you what the advantages are then you are not going to understand them anyway. Good Luck to the Bilikens. except against the MVC. :valley: :valley:

[SLUDrew]

Alright, enough is enough for my part.

But, you can't tell us SLU did not earn that tar and feathering they just got. So, I am sorry it had to come at your expense, but you were the first one to come on here with that arrogant attitude that so many SLU people possess. You tell us (1) I like the A-10, (2) I prefer a Catholic league, and finally (3) if neither of those work out for us, I would like to have the Valley to fall back on. It is off putting and it hits a nerve with us Valley folk that constantly get disrespected. Now, finally, we are in a slight position of power, so we are going to have our revenge ... at your expense if nothing else.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9a/1774_lynching.jpg

So, with the tar and feathering over for my part, I am ready to have that intelligent discourse you speak of (whether intelligent discourse is possible on message boards, of course, requires a different intelligent discourse, but one we will put off for now).

So, here are some questions that I think some Valley folk have that perhaps you could shed some light on:

First, will SLU jump leagues five years from now if it joins the MVC? Is it SLU's ultimate desire to be with larger city based teams like Xavier, Marquette, Memphis, etc or would you be content with Southern Illinois, Missouri State, Bradley even if the competition level was the same?

Second, when is Biondi going to retire? With a few exceptions our university presidents are not tyrannical madmen as Biondi often appears to be. How would he interact with the Valley. Given that it is based in Saint Louis, would he try to take control of it as well?

Third, are SLU fans going to accept the change. Intelligent sports people and media (both local and national) understand the Valley is a better fit for SLU. Is the average Central West End resident going to accept that? Are they going to come out and watch Northern Iowa? Or are they too good for that?

Fourth, relatedly, will Valley membership increase attendance at SLU? I know you were in the Kiel (sorry I will always call it that) and that may have hampered attendance, but if you want to be a top notch member of the Valley, you have to fill that new 10,000 seat arena you are building most nights.

Fifth, will the average fan watch Billiken and other Valley games on FSN, ESPN? Having the larger TV market may help us get more initial contracts, but those contracts will only be renewed for top dollar if people in Saint Louis are actually tuning in, along with the rest of the Valley. I make it a point to watch the Mo State - Wichita game on FSN or ESPN, even though I am a Saluki fan because I know it helps the Valley and, frankly, I am interested. Do you see the slightly stronger than average SLU fan functioning in the same manner?

Sixth (and this one may be more for my own edification than others), will SLU see itself and function within the conference on academic matters? Will you see SIU and Creighton as peer institutions of learning?

And, finally, Seventh, are you going to either lose that arrogant attitude or, just as well, turn that arrogant attitude into the type of arrogance that was so rudely elicited upon you today? It is fine to be self confident. This year I would put SIU against any team, any place, any time. That is confidence and arrogance, maybe even a bit misplaced, that is sort of healthy. Can SLU have that type of arrogance instead?

Anyway, those are plenty to get started. I am sure SLU fans have questions for the Valley and at least some of us would be interested in having an intelligent discourse on those too. Seriously, I think you will find the Valley quite welcoming if everything starts to fall into place (which from the press conference today, does not seem that far off). We are just protective of our success and camaraderie. The 10 current Valley teams have rebuilt this league together and their fans are not going to see some fly by night school come break that apart. But, as you said and as Elgin has said and as many on this board have said, SLU would be a nice addition if we can iron out the issues. So, let's have at it.

I think the issues you have raised would be among those covered if discussions were to begin between Fr. Biondi and Doug Elgin. Great post.

As to your first point regarding SLU jumping leagues if the much-spoken of "Catholic League" ever takes shape. To be honest, I think this very issue is one of the reasons why SLU joined the A-10 over the Valley in the first place. SLU wanted to align itself with a larger number of Eastern-based private schools so they wouldn't be left in the dust should a league consisting of urban area, private schools come to fruition. Now, I don't know that such a league will ever exist. I think before it can even be plausible the Big East would have to implode and the non-football schools would have to extend an invitation to SLU to join such a league. IF, this were to come to pass, I do think SLU would leave the Valley. SLU played wih Marquette and DePaul in C-USA and the three schools expressed a strong desire to remain in the same league after leaving C-USA. Of course, Marquette and DePaul jumped at a chance to join the Big East. They would have been foolish not to. But if a big conference realignment comes up again, I could definitely see SLU, Xavier, Marquette and others attempt to form a league. The odds of something like this happening, at least within the next 5 or 6 years, are remote at best.

As to your second point about Fr. Biondi, he is not going anywhere. Say what you will about some of his methods, but before he got to SLU, SLU was a tier 2 University with a disjointed campus you could have driven though and not know you had done it. Now SLU is the 4th best Catholic school in the country behind only Notre Dame, Georgetown and Boston College, and the 75th best school overall (according to USNews). SLU also has an absolutely gorgeous campus and is always expanding. Fr. Biondi is a poweful man and can certainly be abrasive, but he is not a tyrant and would not try and usurp Doug Elgin's power as it pertains to league matters.

Your third point about SLU fans accepting the move to the Valley is an interesting one. SLU "fans" (those who did not attend SLU) have been clamoring for SLU to join the Valley ever since we moved to the A-10. They view through the eyes of a basketball fan. Naturally, they would rather SLU develop rivalries with SLU, Mo State, and Bradley then some schools hat are a 2 1/2 hr flight away. I think SLU fans who happen to be alum, have taken a more even-handed approach in regards to this issue. Yes, the Missouri St and SIU games are always fun and well-attended, and it would be great to have road games within driving distance. However, we also see the merits of being in a league with like-minded institutions. The latter train of thought has lost some steam though as it has become apparent that only a handful of schools (SLU, X, Dayton, Umass, etc) are pumping resources into their basketball programs to try and improve on their current standing. Hence, we play about 4 or 5 conference games against opponents with RPIs below 250. You can't have that and have the league be successful. If you schedule patsies during your out-of-conference slate, that is your own fault. BUT when you are forced to play them in conference, then it becomes intolerable.

The last thing you need to worry about at SLU is attendance. For about 7 years in the mid to late 90s SLU was in the top 10 in the nation in attendance. We averaged about 16,000 per game. You have to remember, SLU is in a metro area nearing 3 million and there is no NBA team in town. SLU basketball is St. Louis basketball. Also, SLU has just hired Rick Majerus. On Saturday alone, before Coach even had his press conference, the ticket office at SLU was bombarded with requests for new season tickets. SLU's new arena will only hold 10,500, but believe me it will be full virtually every night.

As far as SLU fans pulling for other Valley teams goes, of course we would. Naturally you pull for the other teams in your conference. I cannot really speak to whether or not the average fan would sit down and watch other Valley games on TV. I know I would, especially if a fellow league member were playing a big out-of-conference opponent.

I don't really understand your sixth point regarding SLU's function within the league as it pertains to academic matters. SLU is not going to change academically. Period. About 10 or so years ago Fr. said he wanted SLU to be the best Catholic institution in the nation. At that point we had about 50 schools to leapfrog for that to happen. Now we have three. I think it is immaterial what SLU thinks of Creighton and SIU as far as academics go. Academics are going to be an issue for SLU if it enters discussions to join the league. If SLU decides to join the academic issue is over at that point.

All teams are going to have arrogant fans. Like you said, you got cocky about your Salukis and with good reason. Honestly, I feel like there is a pre-conceived notion of a SLU fan on this board and that has more to do with this issue than anything.

Like I said, I don't know whether the Valley is a good fit or not, but at least we have shown the ability to touch on some issues without resorting to flaming posts that add nothing to the discussion.

[goaces]

My understanding as part of RM going to SLU was that the program was going to lessen it's accademic requirements for it's recruits.

Incidently, this whole "Catholic League" is nothing but a farce. SLU's president allways follows the money. If he wanted a Catholic league, he would have never left the now defunct MCC, which was a collection of both private and Catholic schools, for the outlaw Conference USA.

[DawgieStyle]

Boys, join in, its a catchy phrase and it ryhmes.

SCREW SLU

[yeager]

For all the people that think the Valley is better then SLU need to put your nose down for just a second. When SLU joined the A-10 it was a better conf. then then MVC. Is there anything wrong with them going to a conference that is better then an offer from another conference? Plus when they went to that conference RM was no where near SLU...he says they need to be there...him being associated with the MVC would bring great things to the conference. And those that don't think SLU could compete with him in charge are just crazy....they would be a top tier team easily.


The only reservation I would have is the fact that SLU has not stuck in a conf. for a long period of time....they may jump out of the MVC....I don't think they would do that while RM is the coach.

Here are RPI's of A-10 and MVC the last 7 years:

2007
6 MVC
10 A-10

2006
6 MVC
11 A-10

2005
8 MVC
15 A-10

2004
8 A-10
11 MVC

2003
9 A-10
12 MVC

2002
9 A-10
14 MVC

2001
9 A-10
12 MVC

2000
9 A-10
11 MVC

The MVC has had 3 successfull years and everyone on here is ready to be the next ACC or Big 10.

And watch your heads when you go in the door.

[DawgieStyle]

SCREW SLU!

[DUBulldog]

SCREW SLU!

Feel better now?

[MoValley John]

I implore Creighton to move to the Big Twelve Conference.

[SubGod22]

And what's the advantage to the Valley in all of this? I'd like to know

[DawgieStyle]

Feel better now?

no, not until this stupid conversation of adding slu to the MVC stops. It's dumb. The valley is perfect just the way it is, just WIN! more games.

[MoValley John]

I implore Drake to move to the Big Ten Conference.

[Aegyptus]

I think the issues you have raised would be among those covered if discussions were to begin between Fr. Biondi and Doug Elgin. Great post.

As to your first point regarding SLU jumping leagues if the much-spoken of "Catholic League" ever takes shape. To be honest, I think this very issue is one of the reasons why SLU joined the A-10 over the Valley in the first place. SLU wanted to align itself with a larger number of Eastern-based private schools so they wouldn't be left in the dust should a league consisting of urban area, private schools come to fruition. Now, I don't know that such a league will ever exist. I think before it can even be plausible the Big East would have to implode and the non-football schools would have to extend an invitation to SLU to join such a league. IF, this were to come to pass, I do think SLU would leave the Valley. SLU played wih Marquette and DePaul in C-USA and the three schools expressed a strong desire to remain in the same league after leaving C-USA. Of course, Marquette and DePaul jumped at a chance to join the Big East. They would have been foolish not to. But if a big conference realignment comes up again, I could definitely see SLU, Xavier, Marquette and others attempt to form a league. The odds of something like this happening, at least within the next 5 or 6 years, are remote at best.

So, what you are telling us is that we should highly consider the viability of the Big East. If we think it will last, then SLU could be a long term member. If we do not think the Big East will last, then SLU will probably not stay, so why admit them in the first place.

Your third point about SLU fans accepting the move to the Valley is an interesting one. SLU "fans" (those who did not attend SLU) have been clamoring for SLU to join the Valley ever since we moved to the A-10. They view through the eyes of a basketball fan. Naturally, they would rather SLU develop rivalries with SLU, Mo State, and Bradley then some schools hat are a 2 1/2 hr flight away. I think SLU fans who happen to be alum, have taken a more even-handed approach in regards to this issue. Yes, the Missouri St and SIU games are always fun and well-attended, and it would be great to have road games within driving distance. However, we also see the merits of being in a league with like-minded institutions. The latter train of thought has lost some steam though as it has become apparent that only a handful of schools (SLU, X, Dayton, Umass, etc) are pumping resources into their basketball programs to try and improve on their current standing. Hence, we play about 4 or 5 conference games against opponents with RPIs below 250. You can't have that and have the league be successful. If you schedule patsies during your out-of-conference slate, that is your own fault. BUT when you are forced to play them in conference, then it becomes intolerable.

Explain more your point of "like minded institutions." Like minded how? Academically? Is it the case that you preferred to be with like minded academic schools, but when you realized that they were not like minded athletically (did you ever really think Fordham or LaSalle were going to pump money into their program?) you are thinking about leaving? Question is then, are the Valley schools like minded enough athletically? SIU just ponied up for a decent (@$750,000) salary to keep Lowrey, but many schools in the Valley cannot keep up with that even if they wanted to. If Fordham wanted to, they could find a million for a coach, but I don't care how much Evansville or Northern Iowa wants to, they just can't spend a million on a single individual and the higher salaries that comes with that. There are probably only going to be six or so schools in the Valley that will spend that kind of cash to guarantee a good program.

The last thing you need to worry about at SLU is attendance. For about 7 years in the mid to late 90s SLU was in the top 10 in the nation in attendance. We averaged about 16,000 per game. You have to remember, SLU is in a metro area nearing 3 million and there is no NBA team in town. SLU basketball is St. Louis basketball. Also, SLU has just hired Rick Majerus. On Saturday alone, before Coach even had his press conference, the ticket office at SLU was bombarded with requests for new season tickets. SLU's new arena will only hold 10,500, but believe me it will be full virtually every night.

If you were averaging 16,000 per game, why in the world would you build a 10,000 seat arena? With that size of arena, Creighton will have a better average attendance even if you sell out every night.

I agree that you will get a boost with Majerus, but that act will tire fast. Once you have seen him coach and beat Duquesne by 30 do you really need to see him beat the Bonnies by 30 too? The only way to make that boost in attendance sustainable is either through winning or through better competition and rivalries.

You point about SLU being the only game in town is partly correct. Don't forget that during much of the basketball season there is Hockey and Football, which will always take precedence. Also, there is Mizzou and Illinois and increasingly SIU basketball to fill the pages of the Post-Dispatch. Compare that to a situation like Omaha or Wichita or Springfield or Peoria. Moderate cities with virtually no competition. SLU is still going to have to generate interest, they are not going to have it handed to them I don't care how large the city is.

Congrats on the academics. I think I am the only one on this board that cares about academics, but I am aware of your academic standing and I do think that will help the Valley. My point was only that there are other Valley schools that are similar academically. Carnegie lists SLU as RU/H (Research University/High Research Activity). That is the same listing that SIU and Wichita State have, so there are peer academic institutions although not as highly ranked on the U.S.News list.

Another criticism that often gets thrown at SLU is that they are horrible in all other sports (besides soccer, although it has been a while since you have won a national title) and will drag down the Valley in baseball, softball, women's basketball, etc. all sports in which the Valley enjoys some success. Also, has there ever been any talk of a football program? With Biondi running the show, nothing really seems out of the realm of possibility, so I thought I would ask just in case.

What concerns would SLU have with the Valley?

[Nyghtewynd]

Dear SLU:

Don't call us--we'll call you.

P.S.--Could you pass our phone number on to your friend Xavier? That'd be greeeeeaaaaaaat.

[March Madman]

One thing in this entire discussion that seems to have been forgotten, or at least, not realized, is that SLU WAS a member of the Valley once before. From 1937-'38 to 1973-'74, to be exact.

Also, did you know? Bradley, Drake, and WSU are the only current Valley teams to have shared the conference with SLU for most, if not all, of those 36 seasons. And, Creighton was in the Valley from 1928-'29 until 1947-'48, just to leave for nearly 30 years, returning in 1976.

The proper question is: Should SLU rejoin the Valley?

Personally, it makes no difference to me. I'm just waiting for the Trees to win more than five conference games in one season...:banghead:

[yeager]

Dear SLU:

Don't call us--we'll call you.

P.S.--Could you pass our phone number on to your friend Xavier? That'd be greeeeeaaaaaaat.


Besides XU never saying no to the MVC, what do they offer that SLU does not??

No football, about 10,000/ game, further East then anyone wants to go, not a head coach with the flair of RM, not very good at other sports either(at least SLU has soccer). I don't see why you would want them rather then SLU.

[REALBird]

March Madman,

you bring up an excellent point about SLU REjoining the Valley, but let's face it since 1974 they've been in at least 5-6 different conferences. If SLU was seriously interested in joining the Valley they would have done so a long time ago.

SLU and fans like Drew realize that the A-10 is going down the crapper, and going fast! They also realize that with UMass talking of going 1-A in football, that will be yet another program with a better chance of joining the Big East and LEAVING the vaunted A-10.

Also, the Big East is NOT going to implode as we know it. Schools like DePaul and Marquette historically have been linked to Notre Dame in basketball. If they're going to join a new Catholic/Private league it's most likely to include: Providence, Seton Hall, St. John's, Georgetown, Marquette, DePaul, and Notre Dame. THEN, they'll most likely look at programs like Xavier, Butler, and maybe SLU as teams they COULD add to fill out the conference! But it's not going to happen anytime soon, so don't hold your breath.

Drew can make all the compelling arguments he wants, but we all know Fr. Biondi is not looking at the Valley long term. He wants a piece of the Valley publicity in his own back yard. He thinks he can use Majerus and his schools academics to recruit top 100 talent, run roughshot and dominate the Valley, and then try to weasel his way into the Big East or another conference.

But I digress, I'm still waiting on Drew to give me some compelling reasons why THE VALLEY NEEDS SLU? He knows they need us more than we need them, so he continues to tout all that we can do for them? What can YOU do for us? I mean other than bring your elitist attitude to the Valley. Heck, we got enough private school pracks of our own, we don't need more!

(you know I got love for you private schools in the Valley....even Bradley!) :devil2:

[SLUDrew]

"But I digress, I'm still waiting on Drew to give me some compelling reasons why THE VALLEY NEEDS SLU? He knows they need us more than we need them, so he continues to tout all that we can do for them? What can YOU do for us? I mean other than bring your elitist attitude to the Valley. Heck, we got enough private school pracks of our own, we don't need more!"

Are you kidding me?
-SLU is in a metro area of nearly 3 million (18th largest market in the nation) The next biggest is Omaha at around 800,000. (60th largest market in the nation)
-With the building of the $85 million arena and wooing Rick Majnerus back into coaching by not only paying him $1 mil per year but promising large salaries for assistants and charter flights to each game, SLU is clearly committed to winning.
-SLU has won 10 national titles in soccer. That is the most in division 1 history. Granted it has been a while but SLU is constantly ranked
-SLU brings academic credibility to the conference. THIS IS NOT BEING ELITIST. I am not saying SLU would be the only school that has a good academic reputation. I am saying that SLU brings a lot to the table in this area and while it may not matter much to the average fan, it means a lot to Presidents of Universities.

You are kidding yoursleves if you think Doug Elgin doesn't want SLU in the Valley.

By the way, over the last two years with the Valley on a HUGE upswing and the A-10 experiencing a downturn, the A-10 has received 4 dance bids while the Valley has received 6. That's not exactly lopsided. In the 20 years or so before that, the A-10 received about 3 times as many bids as the Valley, so let's not act like we are comparing the MAC and the ACC. The disparity is nowhere near as great as some on hear claim it to be. And you are misinformed if you think those at SLU desperately want to join the Valley. I was just trying to explore what the potential issues might be and many of them have been raised here.

[DawgieStyle]

SCREW SLU, SCREW SLU, SCREW SLU

[Lurking Dog]

SCREW SLU, SCREW SLU, SCREW SLU

What are you, 12 years old?

[Mikovio]

By the way, over the last two years with the Valley on a HUGE upswing and the A-10 experiencing a downturn, the A-10 has received 4 dance bids while the Valley has received 6. That's not exactly lopsided.
The A-10 received two bids in 2006 because GW went undefeated and lost in the conference tournament. So that at-large bid hardly speaks to the strength of the conference.

And what did their 26-2 record get them? An 8-seed.

Similarly, the A-10 only received an at-large this year because its regular season champion lost in the conference tournament.

See, the A-10 is where the Valley was 4 years ago. That is, reaching for 2 bids. Conversely, the Valley currently is where the A-10 was 4 years ago. That is, disappointment with 2 bids.

Will the pendulum swing the other way? Probably. But can you speculate with any certainty as to how long it will take?

[shockball]

"
Are you kidding me?
-SLU is in a metro area of nearly 3 million (18th largest market in the nation) The next biggest is Omaha at around 800,000. (60th largest market in the nation)
.

What is your average attendence? 10,000 is .33% of the market. Is that why SLU is covered on the 7th page of the Saint Louis Post?

[DUBulldog]

What is your average attendence? 10,000 is .33% of the market. Is that why SLU is covered on the 7th page of the Saint Louis Post?

Good point. The size of the metro is a major factor only if the team in question gets heavy media coverage in their home market.....I don't know whether SLU does, or not. I wouldn't want Chicago State in the league just because they give us a team in the Chicago metro area.

I've really got no problem with SLU....I just don't think expansion is the right thing for the MVC right now.

[Ron Mexico]

Good point. The size of the metro is a major factor only if the team in question gets heavy media coverage in their home market.....I don't know whether SLU does, or not. I wouldn't want Chicago State in the league just because they give us a team in the Chicago metro area.

I've really got no problem with SLU....I just don't think expansion is the right thing for the MVC right now.

SLU's games were not even televised on a consistent basis in St. Louis this past season, Missouri State's games were however.

[SubGod22]

I'm still waiting. What does SLU offer the Valley? I don't care about your metro. The STL metro cares more about the Rams, Blues, Mizzou and Illinois. There may be a few other things that are more important than SLU.

[DawgieStyle]

What are you, 12 years old?

NO, I'm 9



SCREW SLU

[yeager]

I'm still waiting. What does SLU offer the Valley? I don't care about your metro. The STL metro cares more about the Rams, Blues, Mizzou and Illinois. There may be a few other things that are more important than SLU.


I don't care either way, although it does make for a nice trip to St. Louis to watch UE play. But they offer an RPI that is usually in the top 100...they are committed to being a top 50 program, from the Post and with the hiring of RM. They offer a high profile coach in RM, who use to work for ESPN..maybe get some TV coverage. They offer a team that will probably be in top 4 or so year in and year out. They offer a much larger fan base with the size of their city. They are not buried on page 8 of the Post, as someone else mentioned. With them having a high RPI, it might boost our conf some. it would be a nice rival for UE, MSU, and SIU. And it fits geographically. Their academics is strong. That is just a few reasons for and the only one I have against is being 11 teams, unbalanced schedule. And if they add 2, I hate the idea of 12 teams and splitting it up into 2 divisions.

[DawgieStyle]

if it aint broke, don't fix it.

[SubGod22]

In the last 6 years they've had an RPI in the top 100 3 times. They're not a big draw in STL. Thier coach hasn't coached in a few years and who knows how he'll do. Is this commitment to basketball long term? What was thier average attendance this past season? The only figures the SLU guy threw out were from 20 years ago. What have they been finishing in the A10 the past few seasons? I don't think that makes them a top 4 Valley team. And thier other sports are quite weak. And 12 teams would ruin the MVC

[AcePurpleFan]

I say even if SLU would be good for the Valley, which I'm far from being convinced they would be...

SCREW SLU (credit Dawgie)

just to spite them for turning us down a few years ago. :lol:


Plus... what's with everyone thinking SLU could consistently dominate anything but the play-in game in the Valley (UE already dominates that):banghead:

What kind of past success justifies the thinking that SLU would win anything; besides of course the new areana (which seats less than 11,000) and their BIG (oh yeah, Name) Coach?

[MoValley John]

I implore Evansville to join the A- 10!

[MoValley John]

I implore Wichita State to join the Pac 10!

[yeager]

In the last 6 years they've had an RPI in the top 100 3 times. They're not a big draw in STL. Thier coach hasn't coached in a few years and who knows how he'll do. Is this commitment to basketball long term? What was thier average attendance this past season? The only figures the SLU guy threw out were from 20 years ago. What have they been finishing in the A10 the past few seasons? I don't think that makes them a top 4 Valley team. And thier other sports are quite weak. And 12 teams would ruin the MVC

Looks like nothing will change your mind..and people on here say SLU has the ego's.

[REALBird]

Are you kidding me?
-SLU is in a metro area of nearly 3 million (18th largest market in the nation) The next biggest is Omaha at around 800,000. (60th largest market in the nation)

Well I think the Chicago State comparison pretty much nixes the population argument. Furthermore, I'd take Omaha, Wichita, Peoria, and Carbondale over SLU at this point. Their fans support their team DESPITE being in a market smaller than SLU. Last thing we need is bandwagon fans.



-With the building of the $85 million arena and wooing Rick Majnerus back into coaching by not only paying him $1 mil per year but promising large salaries for assistants and charter flights to each game, SLU is clearly committed to winning.

Wow, you guys are building a new arena! Didn't know that! I think I've already covered the venues in the Valley, so no need to mention them again. And what you pay your coach means nothing if he's using SLU and that salary as a stepping stone. Talk to me after he's been there 4-5 years. Odds are Rick Meatloaf won't make it to the end of that contract.
SLU might be committed to winning, but Majerus has always been committed to himself. Besides....how does your venue and your coach better the MVC? What makes it better than Qwest, Carver, The Roundhouse, or any other venue other than being new? Can you fill it when Missouri State, Southern Illinois, Evansville and the rest of the Valley come to town is all that matters? Right now, you've just shown that SLU is committed to spending money! Commit to staying in a conference, and you might become more attractive as a school.

-SLU has won 10 national titles in soccer. That is the most in division 1 history. Granted it has been a while but SLU is constantly ranked.

No offense CU, BU, and all my soccer playing friends, but when I see the NCAA Soccer Championship on prime time, that's when I'll give a rats rear end about soccer. Also, correct me if I'm wrong...but wasn't Men's soccer an affiliate sport in the Valley before you joined that A-10? We have quality soccer programs in CU and BU. Once again, another SLU sport that needs a home in the Valley.

-SLU brings academic credibility to the conference. THIS IS NOT BEING ELITIST. I am not saying SLU would be the only school that has a good academic reputation. I am saying that SLU brings a lot to the table in this area and while it may not matter much to the average fan, it means a lot to Presidents of Universities.

Great, you finally mentioned something that Valley schools might want to be affiliated with, but when academic repuations start putting butts in the seats at sporting events....let me know! With regard to SLU joining the Valley, I'm more concerned with PPG than GPA's.


-You are kidding yoursleves if you think Doug Elgin doesn't want SLU in the Valley.

You got me there Drew! I think Doug does want SLU in the Valley, but there's this thing called leverage Drew. He has it now, SLU and Fr. Biondi DON'T! I would hope that if Mr.Elgin does consider SLU joining the Valley, he makes it very, VERY expensive for you to try and leave with a huge buyout clause. Then we'll see how bad Fr. Biondi and his rumored ego will go toward making it happen. Odds are, he'll adopt his elitist mantra and forgo joining at a cost to SLU.


-By the way, over the last two years with the Valley on a HUGE upswing and the A-10 experiencing a downturn, the A-10 has received 4 dance bids while the Valley has received 6. That's not exactly lopsided. In the 20 years or so before that, the A-10 received about 3 times as many bids as the Valley, so let's not act like we are comparing the MAC and the ACC. The disparity is nowhere near as great as some on hear claim it to be. And you are misinformed if you think those at SLU desperately want to join the Valley. I was just trying to explore what the potential issues might be and many of them have been raised here.

That's where you're putting words in our mouth Drew. Noone here said the disparity was great! Noone here said you desperately want to join the Valley. YOU came here trying to "Jedi Mind Trick" us all into buying into the virtues of an elitist institution, from the perspective of an elitist fan, and how if DePaul and Marquette won't come back to you.....then you'd be willing to take us to the Senior Prom. NO THANKS!

Keep your overpriced coach! Good luck in your new arena! And come see us play next March in downtown St. Louis, or watch it on CBS. Doesn't matter!
The Valley......SLU Free since 1974!:valley:

[yeager]

I say even if SLU would be good for the Valley, which I'm far from being convinced they would be...

SCREW SLU (credit Dawgie)

just to spite them for turning us down a few years ago. :lol:


Plus... what's with everyone thinking SLU could consistently dominate anything but the play-in game in the Valley (UE already dominates that):banghead:

What kind of past success justifies the thinking that SLU would win anything; besides of course the new areana (which seats less than 11,000) and their BIG (oh yeah, Name) Coach?

The arena sits just a little less then UE....and he is the biggest name coach in the Valley...any other MVC coach been to Final Four as a head coach?

No one said dominate, just be an upper tier team....watch the recruits RM will get from the St. Louis area...and with the new arena, which is on campus now, their attendence will sky rockett.

[REALBird]

The arena sits just a little less then UE....and he is the biggest name coach in the Valley...any other MVC coach been to Final Four as a head coach?

No one said dominate, just be an upper tier team....watch the recruits RM will get from the St. Louis area...and with the new arena, which is on campus now, their attendence will sky rockett.

Well there you have it. Let's call Florida and tell them to send the National Championship trophy to Saint Louis. They've got a new arena and Rick Majerus. Why even play the tournament next season?

Oh that's right.....because SLU won't win the A-10 next season, and they won't be joining the Valley anytime soon.

[SLUDrew]

What about the willingness to pay top dollar for a head coach, who stipulated that his assistants must be paid top dollar, being willing to charter flights to every game,and bulding a state of the art arena, would lead anyone to believe anything less than SLU is committed to be a major player on the college basketball scene?

As an example of how rapidly things could change at SLU, John Brandenberg a 4 star, top 10 center in the class of 2008, who has offers from Wisconsin, Stanford, Missouri and Virginia had this to say of SLU, "SLU's a different school to me now. The coach is a major factor." Virtually every rational person in the basketball world acknowledges how much SLU will improve under Majerus. Why some on here deny that is beyond me.

By the way the Scottrade Center is just down the street for bigger games and the Dome can be had (SLU has played both Mizzou and Illinois there recently) when attendance is expected to be in the 30,000 -40,000 seat range, so SLU is not limited to the size of the on-campus arena.

It seems like the majority don't want SLU, and that is fine. I take no offense to that, but it seems many are basing that opinion on spite instead of the realities of the situation. Personally, I don't think SLU will leave the A-10 and I tend to agree with their assessment of the sitaution, but I thought it may be fun to discuss the what-ifs.

[yeager]

Well I think the Chicago State comparison pretty much nixes the population argument. Furthermore, I'd take Omaha, Wichita, Peoria, and Carbondale over SLU at this point. Their fans support their team DESPITE being in a market smaller than SLU. Last thing we need is bandwagon fans.




Wow, you guys are building a new arena! Didn't know that! I think I've already covered the venues in the Valley, so no need to mention them again. And what you pay your coach means nothing if he's using SLU and that salary as a stepping stone. Talk to me after he's been there 4-5 years. Odds are Rick Meatloaf won't make it to the end of that contract.
SLU might be committed to winning, but Majerus has always been committed to himself. Besides....how does your venue and your coach better the MVC? What makes it better than Qwest, Carver, The Roundhouse, or any other venue other than being new? Can you fill it when Missouri State, Southern Illinois, Evansville and the rest of the Valley come to town is all that matters? Right now, you've just shown that SLU is committed to spending money! Commit to staying in a conference, and you might become more attractive as a school.



No offense CU, BU, and all my soccer playing friends, but when I see the NCAA Soccer Championship on prime time, that's when I'll give a rats rear end about soccer. Also, correct me if I'm wrong...but wasn't Men's soccer an affiliate sport in the Valley before you joined that A-10? We have quality soccer programs in CU and BU. Once again, another SLU sport that needs a home in the Valley.



Great, you finally mentioned something that Valley schools might want to be affiliated with, but when academic repuations start putting butts in the seats at sporting events....let me know! With regard to SLU joining the Valley, I'm more concerned with PPG than GPA's.




You got me there Drew! I think Doug does want SLU in the Valley, but there's this thing called leverage Drew. He has it now, SLU and Fr. Biondi DON'T! I would hope that if Mr.Elgin does consider SLU joining the Valley, he makes it very, VERY expensive for you to try and leave with a huge buyout clause. Then we'll see how bad Fr. Biondi and his rumored ego will go toward making it happen. Odds are, he'll adopt his elitist mantra and forgo joining at a cost to SLU.




That's where you're putting words in our mouth Drew. Noone here said the disparity was great! Noone here said you desperately want to join the Valley. YOU came here trying to "Jedi Mind Trick" us all into buying into the virtues of an elitist institution, from the perspective of an elitist fan, and how if DePaul and Marquette won't come back to you.....then you'd be willing to take us to the Senior Prom. NO THANKS!

Keep your overpriced coach! Good luck in your new arena! And come see us play next March in downtown St. Louis, or watch it on CBS. Doesn't matter!
The Valley......SLU Free since 1974!:valley:

How come when a MVC school gets a new arena it is a big deal, should be the same with SLU....how come when current MVC coaches get big contract extensions it is a big deal, should be the same with SLU...you saying that RM is using them as a steping stone??? DId you see the turnover in the MVC coaches this year...who is not using the MVC as a stepping stone? The MVC is not too good for SLU. The ego's in this forum amaze me...take a look at where we were at just a few short years ago, never forget where you came from and appreciate that....and do not turn your noses at the people trying to become where you are now because you were once there yourself.

[yeager]

Well there you have it. Let's call Florida and tell them to send the National Championship trophy to Saint Louis. They've got a new arena and Rick Majerus. Why even play the tournament next season?

Oh that's right.....because SLU won't win the A-10 next season, and they won't be joining the Valley anytime soon.


Wondering where in any post I made about them winning anything. All I said is they would be a top tier team in the MVC, the new arena along with RM will help their attendence. Why do you and everyone else think they are too good for SLU?

[StLouBlue]

I'm still waiting. What does SLU offer the Valley? I don't care about your metro. The STL metro cares more about the Rams, Blues, Mizzou and Illinois. There may be a few other things that are more important than SLU.
SLU offers the MVC a big name coach, at least in the short term, that will get TV time on Sportscenter. SLU would bring a program with the 2nd highest paid coach in the league, maybe first depending on details between Altman's contract and Majerus' contract. President of SLU has been forced to make a larger committment to MBB than he has in past and this commitment should continue at least as long as RM is in place.

Whether people like to admit it or not, St Louis is the hub of the MVC. There are many alumni from all or almost all schools in the area. SLU is not a dominate type University though, I don't see any scenerio where SLU would come in and dominate either athletically or pushing it's will onto other schools. The MVC would like to host more events in the St Louis area, and having a strong program located here would only help. WBB has signed on to a neutral site for their tourney in the St Louis area. I know there has been rumors in past about neutral site baseball games or even the tourney as well.

One more thing that I should add. I would expect Elign & the MVC to put in place a kind of stay in place clause or pay out big if SLU joins. Something along the lines of a few million fine/levy if SLU were to leave the MVC before 10 years or something like that should work. I would insist on this if I was a Pres of another MVC University before I would even consider SLU application.

[REALBird]

How come when a MVC school gets a new arena it is a big deal, should be the same with SLU....how come when current MVC coaches get big contract extensions it is a big deal, should be the same with SLU...you saying that RM is using them as a steping stone??? DId you see the turnover in the MVC coaches this year...who is not using the MVC as a stepping stone? The MVC is not too good for SLU. The ego's in this forum amaze me...take a look at where we were at just a few short years ago, never forget where you came from and appreciate that....and do not turn your noses at the people trying to become where you are now because you were once there yourself.

It's a big deal because it helps MVC schools with recruiting, it's a big deal because most schools that are building or renovating are doing so because of the success they've enjoyed recently. Rather than stay stagnant, they seek to constantly improve upon what they have. Noone is bashing SLU and their new arena, but since you're NOT in the Valley we're certainly not going to just go bananas either. You're getting a new building. Great for SLU. All I ever pointed out was other Valley schools are getting one, just got one, or are renovating. See despite us not being SLU, we have money also!

Coaches in the MVC have been paid lower than their BCS counterparts, it's no secret. So when a Coach like Lowrey, Altman, or Turgeon start getting salaries in the upward of 750K, it means they've EARNED IT. It also helps that in a few of those instances, they're loyal to the institution paying them, not just looking for their next check. Why it's a big deal to US on this board, and why it's a big deal to SLU fans is apples and oranges. You guys feel like you paid for the best coach available, and that's great. But based on recent success, I'm sure SIU fans will say they got a coach who's worth every penny you paid Majerus. See once again, not personal. We just don't care about what you paid Majerus at SLU.

BTW...I take it as a compliment when other leagues come looking to hire MVC coaches. Many of the jobs end up being a stepping stone, but we enjoy the ride while we can. I mean look at your current assistant Porter Moser, he just drove our program into the ground, so I KNOW he's going to do wonders at SLU. But then again, he did get fired from ISU. So is that a step down getting fired from Illinois State and getting hired as an assistant at SLU? Jury is still out on that one!

Ego's huh? Call it what you will Yeager, but we didn't come to the Billiken board talking high and mighty about how, "Well based on our success, we really don't need to expand, but if we did we might as well take SLU. Our preference would be to add Xavier, or Dayton, or even get Memphis...but if that doesn't happen.....SLU is a viable option." Your boy Drew came on this board with EXACTLY that elitist attitude. Deal with Drew before you come spouting that crap to us! To quote Julez from Pulp Fiction:

"If my answers frighten you, then maybe you should cease to ask scary questions."

I don't think anyone on this board has a problem with SLU, where they are, where they've been, or what the future holds for them. In the end, it's irrelevant what WE think, it's all up to Doug Elgin and Fr. Biondi. But don't expect people here to hold SLU in the same regard many of you do. We may fight amongst each other, but we're at least loyal to each other. SLU fans might understand that a bit better if you guys stayed in a conference long enough to establish some loyal relationships.:valley:

[goaces]

SLUdrew and Yeager,
Just try to relax and read between the lines of what most is being conveyed. Many fans of the Valley see SLU and the Valley having a lot to offer each other. What becomes the major stumbling block for most, myself included, is just how committed will the Bilikins be when they decide they want to make the jump from the Atlantic 10. Nobody in the MVC wants a one night stand from St. Louis University. I feel quite confident that Doug Elgin and league president's and AD's will make that abudantly clear when SLU come knocking.:yes: :valley:

[MSNSaluki]

I'm against the addition of any school to the Valley that has a mascot which can moonlight as the head coach and visa versa.:lol:

[WSUfan]

What about the willingness to pay top dollar for a head coach, who stipulated that his assistants must be paid top dollar, being willing to charter flights to every game,and bulding a state of the art arena, would lead anyone to believe anything less than SLU is committed to be a major player on the college basketball scene?

I think CU, SIU, WSU and possibly BU are paying coaches in the same range as SLU. WSU's new coach, Gregg Marshall, will earn $750,000 plus incentive bonuses; I would not be surprised to see him earn $1,000,000 if the team had an outstanding (Final Four?) season. I think WSU has charter flights to every or nearly every game and Marshall has commented on the value of having a private jet for recruiting.

As an example of how rapidly things could change at SLU, John Brandenberg a 4 star, top 10 center in the class of 2008, who has offers from Wisconsin, Stanford, Missouri and Virginia had this to say of SLU, "SLU's a different school to me now. The coach is a major factor." Virtually every rational person in the basketball world acknowledges how much SLU will improve under Majerus. Why some on here deny that is beyond me.

I think Majerus may eventually lead to great improvements in SLU's basketball team. I hope he stays long enough.

By the way the Scottrade Center is just down the street for bigger games and the Dome can be had (SLU has played both Mizzou and Illinois there recently) when attendance is expected to be in the 30,000 -40,000 seat range, so SLU is not limited to the size of the on-campus arena.

I wish Wichita had a bigger arena.

It seems like the majority don't want SLU, and that is fine. I take no offense to that, but it seems many are basing that opinion on spite instead of the realities of the situation. Personally, I don't think SLU will leave the A-10 and I tend to agree with their assessment of the sitaution, but I thought it may be fun to discuss the what-ifs.

Translation: "I'm bored and I want to talk sports; maybe get into an argument?" Got you!! :thumbup1:

[BeeLine]

Having grown up in the St Louis area[Washington Mo] and later following graduation from Missouri State lived and worked in St Louis for 14 years, I have my own perspective on many of these issues. I followed SLU basketball pretty seriously, attending a lot of games and staying up on most of the team developments during the time I was in St Louis.One thing you come to realize is that even in good times, they are the # 5 sports interest in the St Louis media. Pecking order is Cardinals/Rams/ Mizzou/Blues/Billikens. Just the way it is and has always been ; the only change was the period after the football Cardinals left and before the Rams came East.
Now they did have a period where they drew very well during Spoons stay, but even with big crowds the atmosphere at a SLU game was decidely wine and cheese compared to a game at SIU/WSU/CU etc. Part of that is playing in a hockey rink, so the move to a new on campus facility will definitely help.
SLU fans have a hard time dealing with the fact that just because they played in the Metro and then conference USA with teams like Louisville and Memphis and Cinn., they were never seriously close to being on par with them or even a team like DePaul except a year here or there. Their fan board has a very elitist attitude as if attending SLU is a class disticntion, but frankly a Wash U education stands for more and you don't get the same attitude from their alums; to end up back in the VALLEY after the amount of effort many of them have spent in trying to portray the Valley as so far beneath them in terms of basketball, academics, Urban cultural advantages, and the like, would be hysterical to listen to them try to respin. It's been that way listening to their attempts to put a good face on the A-10 basketball the last few years after trumpeting it as so superior to the VALLEY when they made their move. They hate the fact the majority of the local media recognize the Valley as superior and that SIU often trumps them for both media coverage and in recruiting in their own backyard. They hate the Valley even though we have done nothing other than to advance our cause and reputation by performance on the court. They post consistently about any Valley failures or perceived shortcomings as if that tends to validate SLU in some way.
All that said, I'm pretty indifferent to the possibility of them coming back to the Valley. I don't want an 11 team league, and I don't want us to disrupt the current structure w/o a longterm committment from whatever team we might add. But i do think they could be a team that could challenge for a 3-6 finish most years, would have a solid fan/attendance base, add to the quality of the soccer league, and generally be an asset.
So my vote would probably be a YE ; nah, fu_kem!

[Drakey]

I would be all for the addition of St. Louis if the conference tournament was not played there. It has taken years to build up the conference tournament at a neutral site, and this would kill it entirely. Small time conferences hold their tournaments in one scholls home town.

Other than that, St. Louis would be a great addition for the Valley. There aren't many schools that fit this conference in the midwest. This is one of them. Butler is another. Marquette and Depaul should be, but they have yet to figure that out. They are more likely to figure it out eventually with St. Louis in the conference.

[jaypharmalum]

Bruce Rasmussen (Creighton AD) on the radio today said the following:

1) Open to discussing SLU if they ask for admission - money is a huge issue and the NCAA tournament payout being divided is problematic.

2) 11 teams is a bad number for a league because one team won't be playing every Saturday during conference season.

3) Conferences need to consider contraction when considering expansion. Too many conferences (A-10 and Big East were cited) added teams, but should have asked others to leave that didn't fit any longer.

4) If SLU is added, Omaha and Wichita (and maybe others) need to be in a rotation to host the MVC tournament. He sounded pretty adamant that Saint Louis would not be hosting the MVC tourney every year if SLU was added. I'd offer Kansas City as a nice neutral alternative.

5) Conference meetings in a couple of weeks. Said the idea and rules governing conference expansion haven't been reviewed in many years, but he suspects it will be a focus this time around.

[Ron Mexico]

Having grown up in the St Louis area[Washington Mo] and later following graduation from Missouri State lived and worked in St Louis for 14 years, I have my own perspective on many of these issues. I followed SLU basketball pretty seriously, attending a lot of games and staying up on most of the team developments during the time I was in St Louis.One thing you come to realize is that even in good times, they are the # 5 sports interest in the St Louis media. Pecking order is Cardinals/Rams/ Mizzou/Blues/Billikens. Just the way it is and has always been ; the only change was the period after the football Cardinals left and before the Rams came East.
Now they did have a period where they drew very well during Spoons stay, but even with big crowds the atmosphere at a SLU game was decidely wine and cheese compared to a game at SIU/WSU/CU etc. Part of that is playing in a hockey rink, so the move to a new on campus facility will definitely help.
SLU fans have a hard time dealing with the fact that just because they played in the Metro and then conference USA with teams like Louisville and Memphis and Cinn., they were never seriously close to being on par with them or even a team like DePaul except a year here or there. Their fan board has a very elitist attitude as if attending SLU is a class disticntion, but frankly a Wash U education stands for more and you don't get the same attitude from their alums; to end up back in the VALLEY after the amount of effort many of them have spent in trying to portray the Valley as so far beneath them in terms of basketball, academics, Urban cultural advantages, and the like, would be hysterical to listen to them try to respin. It's been that way listening to their attempts to put a good face on the A-10 basketball the last few years after trumpeting it as so superior to the VALLEY when they made their move. They hate the fact the majority of the local media recognize the Valley as superior and that SIU often trumps them for both media coverage and in recruiting in their own backyard. They hate the Valley even though we have done nothing other than to advance our cause and reputation by performance on the court. They post consistently about any Valley failures or perceived shortcomings as if that tends to validate SLU in some way.
All that said, I'm pretty indifferent to the possibility of them coming back to the Valley. I don't want an 11 team league, and I don't want us to disrupt the current structure w/o a longterm committment from whatever team we might add. But i do think they could be a team that could challenge for a 3-6 finish most years, would have a solid fan/attendance base, add to the quality of the soccer league, and generally be an asset.
So my vote would probably be a YE ; nah, fu_kem!


Last season it is easy to say they were 6th with SIU's success

[Lurking Dog]

JayPharmAlum,

Did your AD mention the possibility of St. Louis, plus a 12th member? Or were his comments limited to 10 vs. 11 members?

[MoValley John]

I implore Southern Illinois to join the Southeastern Conference!

[SubGod22]

I pray to God that they don't add an 11th and definately not a 12th. 12 teams would only make scheduling more difficult than it already is.

[MoValley John]

I implore Northern Iowa to join the North Central Conference!

[Mecha_Bulldog]

4) If SLU is added, Omaha and Wichita (and maybe others) need to be in a rotation to host the MVC tournament. He sounded pretty adamant that Saint Louis would not be hosting the MVC tourney every year if SLU was added. I'd offer Kansas City as a nice neutral alternative.

I'm all for moving the tourney to Kansas City if SLU joins. Failing that, Des Moines should be in that rotation. Wells Fargo should be dying to host the MVC tourney, and they'd offer a short drive for CU and UNI along with DU.

If SLU joins the MVC, there should be a major battle over the tourney's location.

[rjl]

Make it a traveling one like the Big 12.

[Lurking Dog]

Speaking of the Big 12, that would be the scheduling model for a 12-member conference...two divisions and everyone gets 16 conference games a year.

The Big 12's divisions don't appear in the basketball standings, but they're the basis for the schedule nonetheless.

[yeager]

As I said earlier in this thread, it does not matter to me either way....but to say they would not be a good fit or good for the league is crazy. If you want to say that 11 or 12 teams is bad then that is one thing but to say SLU wouldn't help is absurd. I personally do not like a 11 or 12 team conf. but if they did it so be it. I also said along with the number of teams, the other major concern is them jumping conf. so often. And finally, I said the MVC tournament would have to leave St. Louis.

I have heard a number of people talk about Xavier or Dayton instead...you people that said that, tell me what they offer that SLU does not. There location in it self kills that idea.

[SubGod22]

Reports are the SC doesn't like unbalanced schedules either. And making teams add 2 more games to the schedule when it's already difficult enough as it is wouldn't make a lot of sense. Yes, we'd have to do what the B12 has done but I don't think that's a good idea.

[SubGod22]

I'd say Dayton and X offer better name recognition nationally. But I still wouldn't want them either as 11+ teams doesn't interest me. But they'd still be more appealing that SLU based on competitiveness and name recognition.

[89rabbit]

I implore Northern Iowa to join the North Central Conference!


They would have to join the Northern Sun. :wink3:

http://www.argusleader.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070402/SPORTS/70402026

Augustana joins Northern Sun
League votes to accept Vikings for 2008-09 season

By by matt zimmer
mzimmer@argusleader.com
Published: April 2, 2007

What was long considered a mere formality became official Monday, as the Northern Sun Intercollegiate Conference (NSIC) admitted Augustana College, St. Cloud State University, Minnesota State University-Mankato and the University of Minnesota-Duluth into its league, effective for the 2008-09 school year.

Presidents of the 10 member schools voted Monday afternoon to extend the 14-year old Division II league to 14 teams, adding the four schools that began looking for a home when the North Central Conference announced this winter that it would fold after the 2007-08 school year. . . . (read more)

[Aegyptus]

Bruce Rasmussen (Creighton AD) on the radio today said the following:

1) Open to discussing SLU if they ask for admission - money is a huge issue and the NCAA tournament payout being divided is problematic.

2) 11 teams is a bad number for a league because one team won't be playing every Saturday during conference season.

3) Conferences need to consider contraction when considering expansion. Too many conferences (A-10 and Big East were cited) added teams, but should have asked others to leave that didn't fit any longer.

4) If SLU is added, Omaha and Wichita (and maybe others) need to be in a rotation to host the MVC tournament. He sounded pretty adamant that Saint Louis would not be hosting the MVC tourney every year if SLU was added. I'd offer Kansas City as a nice neutral alternative.

5) Conference meetings in a couple of weeks. Said the idea and rules governing conference expansion haven't been reviewed in many years, but he suspects it will be a focus this time around.

Very interesting comments on the board today. It is nice to see we are starting to get over ourselves and actually start to consider this issue.

Rasmussen's comments are pretty interesting given that he will carry a lot of weight in any Valley meetings on this issue.

The money issue is obviously huge, but I think we can get around that. The first issue is the A-10 buyout. I think SLU would be solely responsible for that. Then, in terms of the Valley buyout, you can put in a provision like SLU will have to pay an amount equal to all the other Valley coaching salaries combined, so 4-5 mil. or something like that. Something in the neighborhood of 5 million should satisfy the other schools. They could get crazy and go closer to 10 (or a million for every Valley school), but I think that will be a walk away point for SLU.

I don't think the 11 team Saturday issue is that big of a deal. Could you not just schedule some Thurs/Fri and then Sunday games so that everybody is playing each weekend? Already, the Valley schedule seemed to have a lot of Sunday games and other non-Saturday games last year.

The contraction issue, obviously, ...um....not good if I am a present Indiana school. Probably won't happen but to hear it out of the mouth of a present AD...um....not good.

On the tourney, KANSAS CITY!!!!! Forget that rotation crap. I think we have proven that having the tourney in the same place every year is a great way to go. Saint Louis would have it for a couple of years yet, but no doubt it would be in Kansas City. In fact, that would almost be the consolation prize for Wichita and Creighton if the Valley starts to add eastern schools (like Butler). Rasmussen obviously wants to have a home tourney for his city and for that arena. I don't blame him, but it is not going to happen when Kansas City is just sitting there with a brand new arena.

Finally, the fact they plan to address it at the meeting I think says a lot. Would they take time to address the issue if there were merely rumors floating around? I don't think so. Something is going on behind the scenes for them to formally address it at the meeting.

Interesting. Thanks for the post Jay Pharm.

[goaces]

[QUOTE=yeager]As I said earlier in this thread, it does not matter to me either way....but to say they would not be a good fit or good for the league is crazy. If you want to say that 11 or 12 teams is bad then that is one thing but to say SLU wouldn't help is absurd. I personally do not like a 11 or 12 team conf. but if they did it so be it. I also said along with the number of teams, the other major concern is them jumping conf. so often. And finally, I said the MVC tournament would have to leave St. Louis.

I have heard a number of people talk about Xavier or Dayton instead...you people that said that, tell me what they offer that SLU does not. There location in it self kills that idea.[/QUOTE

Yeager, it sounds like you are on this forum to tell you how wonderful SLU is.

[MoValley John]

They would have to join the Northern Sun. :wink3:

http://www.argusleader.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070402/SPORTS/70402026

Augustana joins Northern Sun
League votes to accept Vikings for 2008-09 season

By by matt zimmer
mzimmer@argusleader.com
Published: April 2, 2007

What was long considered a mere formality became official Monday, as the Northern Sun Intercollegiate Conference (NSIC) admitted Augustana College, St. Cloud State University, Minnesota State University-Mankato and the University of Minnesota-Duluth into its league, effective for the 2008-09 school year.

Presidents of the 10 member schools voted Monday afternoon to extend the 14-year old Division II league to 14 teams, adding the four schools that began looking for a home when the North Central Conference announced this winter that it would fold after the 2007-08 school year. . . . (read more)

I STILL implore Northern Iowa to join the North Central Conference!

[MoValley John]

I implore Indiana State to join the Atlantic Coast Conference!

[89rabbit]

I STILL implore Northern Iowa to join the North Central Conference!

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[DawgieStyle]

How come when a MVC school gets a new arena it is a big deal, should be the same with SLU....how come when current MVC coaches get big contract extensions it is a big deal, should be the same with SLU...you saying that RM is using them as a steping stone??? DId you see the turnover in the MVC coaches this year...who is not using the MVC as a stepping stone? The MVC is not too good for SLU. The ego's in this forum amaze me...take a look at where we were at just a few short years ago, never forget where you came from and appreciate that....and do not turn your noses at the people trying to become where you are now because you were once there yourself.

news flash, this is a Valley Board, hence when SLU gets a new coach and new arena, must of us don't give a rats @#$. When, and I'll believe it when I see it, SLU actually miracously joins the valley, I'll give a crap what SLU does. Until then:

SCREW SLU

[yeager]

[QUOTE=yeager]As I said earlier in this thread, it does not matter to me either way....but to say they would not be a good fit or good for the league is crazy. If you want to say that 11 or 12 teams is bad then that is one thing but to say SLU wouldn't help is absurd. I personally do not like a 11 or 12 team conf. but if they did it so be it. I also said along with the number of teams, the other major concern is them jumping conf. so often. And finally, I said the MVC tournament would have to leave St. Louis.

I have heard a number of people talk about Xavier or Dayton instead...you people that said that, tell me what they offer that SLU does not. There location in it self kills that idea.[/QUOTE

Yeager, it sounds like you are on this forum to tell you how wonderful SLU is.

Not at all, just trying to find out the difference in the schools...and again you did not tell me......IF the MVC was to expand SLU is the obv. choice, there isn't one other school that fits the mode like SLU and is good geographic wise.

[DawgieStyle]

[QUOTE=goaces]

Not at all, just trying to find out the difference in the schools...and again you did not tell me......IF the MVC was to expand SLU is the obv. choice, there isn't one other school that fits the mode like SLU and is good geographic wise.

your missing the point, the idea of expansion is not a good one, and quite frankly, stupid.

So why discuss something that shouldn't happen, or to be more correct if Doug Elgin has a brain, won't happen.

[yeager]

[QUOTE=yeager]

your missing the point, the idea of expansion is not a good one, and quite frankly, stupid.

So why discuss something that shouldn't happen, or to be more correct if Doug Elgin has a brain, won't happen.

Did you see me put IF...again, I don't care either way. But it is your opinion it would be bad just like it is my opinion if they did get in they would be a top tier team. Other people may have the opinion that expansion would be good. That is why they call it opinions, everyone gets to have one. I have gave agruements for and a couple against. All you say is it is stupid w/o giving any info on why. So please tell me why would it be stupid?

[REALBird]

[QUOTE=goaces]

Not at all, just trying to find out the difference in the schools...and again you did not tell me......IF the MVC was to expand SLU is the obv. choice, there isn't one other school that fits the mode like SLU and is good geographic wise.

What makes you guys more attractive than say Butler??? It adds yet another Indiana team, so Evansville and Indiana State would definitely be happy. I gets the Valley into the Indianapolis market, so what if we decided to move the tourney from St. Louis to Conseco Fieldhouse? Butler has definitely had more success than SLU in basketball recently. I'm sure with the academic standards at Butler, we can still get a quality educational school with less arrogance!

I mean, the Valley could easily look at Oral Roberts, Butler, try to entice Illinois-Chicago, Wisconsin-Milwaukee to leave the Horizon, or we could use SLU as our fallback if things fall through with other schools.

But as many others have said, I am against an 11 team league. So tell Friar Biondi that he should start looking for another team to package SLU with to take us to a 12 team league if he really wants to join!

As for Xavier and Dayton....I don't believe the Valley is looking to expand that far East, nor do I think Xavier and Dayton are looking to leave the A-10. But you and it appears your coach, and some of your fans ARE looking to leave the A-10, or at least flirting with it. We're not here to stroke your SLU ego. We're not here to fall all over you guys and say pah-leeeeeese join our conference. What we are saying is that outside of your new arena, and your geography, you'd make an interesting partner. But we're leery of your motives. I'd say Elgin needs to give them at least a 5-10 million dollar buyout in order to seriously consider taking them back. SLU is a nomad school always looking out for the best interests of SLU. Their conference history has proven that much, so if they're serious about being here longtem that buyout figure won't phase Fr. Biondi because the only way SLU pays up, is if they leave. If he refuses to pony up the money, or flinches....then we know he's just trying to get us drunk and take advantage of us!

[yeager]

[QUOTE=yeager]

What makes you guys more attractive than say Butler??? It adds yet another Indiana team, so Evansville and Indiana State would definitely be happy. I gets the Valley into the Indianapolis market, so what if we decided to move the tourney from St. Louis to Conseco Fieldhouse? Butler has definitely had more success than SLU in basketball recently. I'm sure with the academic standards at Butler, we can still get a quality educational school with less arrogance!

I mean, the Valley could easily look at Oral Roberts, Butler, try to entice Illinois-Chicago, Wisconsin-Milwaukee to leave the Horizon, or we could use SLU as our fallback if things fall through with other schools.

But as many others have said, I am against an 11 team league. So tell Friar Biondi that he should start looking for another team to package SLU with to take us to a 12 team league if he really wants to join!

As for Xavier and Dayton....I don't believe the Valley is looking to expand that far East, nor do I think Xavier and Dayton are looking to leave the A-10. But you and it appears your coach, and some of your fans ARE looking to leave the A-10, or at least flirting with it. We're not here to stroke your SLU ego. We're not here to fall all over you guys and say pah-leeeeeese join our conference. What we are saying is that outside of your new arena, and your geography, you'd make an interesting partner. But we're leery of your motives. I'd say Elgin needs to give them at least a 5-10 million dollar buyout in order to seriously consider taking them back. SLU is a nomad school always looking out for the best interests of SLU. Their conference history has proven that much, so if they're serious about being here longtem that buyout figure won't phase Fr. Biondi because the only way SLU pays up, is if they leave. If he refuses to pony up the money, or flinches....then we know he's just trying to get us drunk and take advantage of us!

First off, I am a member of ValleyTalk and have nothing to do with SLU...I am a fan of UE.

You said Oral Roberts, Ill-Chi., Wisc.-Milw..could you tell me what they offer that SLU does not? If, you are scared SLU will leave the conf. in a few years then I understand that, that is what I said early on that being one of the biggest drawbacks. Other then that, they are a perfect fit to give the MVC the most exposure with their new coach and arena. RM just left ESPN and has been on TV more then any other MVC coach. He is a big name coach that has been to the Final Four. I really think that some people on here are scared RM will still the limelight from their school and coach.

As far as Butler goes, IMO they would be crazy to move out of the Horizon...they are having great success and should not hamper that like UE did. But that is another topic.

[numbr_9]

[QUOTE=yeager]

What makes you guys more attractive than say Butler??? It adds yet another Indiana team, so Evansville and Indiana State would definitely be happy. I gets the Valley into the Indianapolis market, so what if we decided to move the tourney from St. Louis to Conseco Fieldhouse? Butler has definitely had more success than SLU in basketball recently. I'm sure with the academic standards at Butler, we can still get a quality educational school with less arrogance!

I mean, the Valley could easily look at Oral Roberts, Butler, try to entice Illinois-Chicago, Wisconsin-Milwaukee to leave the Horizon, or we could use SLU as our fallback if things fall through with other schools.

But as many others have said, I am against an 11 team league. So tell Friar Biondi that he should start looking for another team to package SLU with to take us to a 12 team league if he really wants to join!

As for Xavier and Dayton....I don't believe the Valley is looking to expand that far East, nor do I think Xavier and Dayton are looking to leave the A-10. But you and it appears your coach, and some of your fans ARE looking to leave the A-10, or at least flirting with it. We're not here to stroke your SLU ego. We're not here to fall all over you guys and say pah-leeeeeese join our conference. What we are saying is that outside of your new arena, and your geography, you'd make an interesting partner. But we're leery of your motives. I'd say Elgin needs to give them at least a 5-10 million dollar buyout in order to seriously consider taking them back. SLU is a nomad school always looking out for the best interests of SLU. Their conference history has proven that much, so if they're serious about being here longtem that buyout figure won't phase Fr. Biondi because the only way SLU pays up, is if they leave. If he refuses to pony up the money, or flinches....then we know he's just trying to get us drunk and take advantage of us!

QFT

[DawgieStyle]

[QUOTE=DawgieStyle]

Did you see me put IF...again, I don't care either way. But it is your opinion it would be bad just like it is my opinion if they did get in they would be a top tier team. Other people may have the opinion that expansion would be good. That is why they call it opinions, everyone gets to have one. I have gave agruements for and a couple against. All you say is it is stupid w/o giving any info on why. So please tell me why would it be stupid?

im against the MVC expanding in general, whether it be SLU, Tulsa, or Duke. Why discuss SLU in particular when I don't think any team should be allowed to join.

I thought it was rediculous when the Big east and the ACC blew up conference USA. Not only did the 2 richest conf. get richer, the poor got poorer. IT wasn't good for basketball, and it still isn't.

Aside from those factors, add in the fact that 11 teams makes it hard come conf. tourney time, weekend games, and the possible end of the true round robin we have now, its a disaster.

12 teams, is even crazier, because now you have to break into 2 divisions, which in my opinion weakens a conference. I think all of those huge conf. would be stronger if there were no divisions.

And finally, if it aint broke, don't fix it. The valley has improved greatly in the last decade, of course it had to level off at some point. Adding another team will not guaruntee a continued rise for the valley. The only thing that will make the valley even better is to:

WIN MORE GAMES!

[SLUDrew]

My guess is that SLU joining the Valley has less than a 1 in 10 chance of happening. The two main sticking points will be:

1) The Valley will demand SLU pay a HUGE buyout if SLU decides it wants to leave the Valley in a few years. The Valley has every right to do this and would be foolish not to, but Fr. Biondi will not go for it. He didn't want to join the Valley in the first place, and will certainly not do it with a 5 million dollar early exit fee attached to it.

2) Fr. Biondi is a Chicago guy. He loves urban areas and playing Universities in major urban areas. Philly, NYC, Charlotte, Cincy, DC and Charlotte are just more attractive markets for SLU to be in than what the Valley can offer. I realize that not all of our opponents are headline grabbers in their respective markets but Fr. loves at least having a presence in those markets.

I don't think the A-10 is the ideal fit for SLU for obvious reasons, but the Valley isn't ideal either. That being the case we may as well stay put and avoid having to buy out of the A-10 to get in the Valley, and then buying out of the Valley should the Big East implode so we can join up with DePaul, Marquette, X, Dayton and others.

[yeager]

[QUOTE=yeager]

im against the MVC expanding in general, whether it be SLU, Tulsa, or Duke. Why discuss SLU in particular when I don't think any team should be allowed to join.

I thought it was rediculous when the Big east and the ACC blew up conference USA. Not only did the 2 richest conf. get richer, the poor got poorer. IT wasn't good for basketball, and it still isn't.

Aside from those factors, add in the fact that 11 teams makes it hard come conf