Carbondale Opinion

[WSUfan]

From SalukiTalk: http://www.salukitalk.net/st/viewtopic.php?t=14174&sid=ae966eb9be8b156ef7718708d4bca2f1

So, gentlemen, it's time for a reality check.

The $500,000 raise Coach Lowery is poised to receive exceeds the annual salary of the president of the United States.

The $500,000 raise Coach Lowery is poised to receive exceeds the annual salary of the governor of the state of Illinois.

The $500,000 raise Coach Lowery is poised to receive exceeds the annual salary of the president of this university. And the list goes on.

In fairness, we must consider the "ifs." If the hike is, in fact, covered by revenue generated through TV and ticket sales, and if the hike is covered through private donations by deep-pocketed alumni, that's one thing. But these are very big "ifs!" If they don't materialize, what is Plan B? A commitment is being made and the university will have to come up with the money.

Then what happens when Coach Kill's contract is up for renewal? And how about the women's basketball and softball coaches whose teams have been wildly successful, or Coach Dan Callahan's diamond Dawgs who consistently grind out successful seasons, with this year's boys of summer getting off to an especially promising start. If it's all about "fundamental fairness," gentlemen, where's their reward?

The argument last year was that national exposure would translate into an increase in enrollment, but the reality is we're down 1,500 students, and the only thing this translates into is the loss of big bucks.

In the same news account of the coach's raise, the president announced that departments should prepare for a possible 2 percent to 6 percent budget cut. This is a recipe for moral disaster.

Unfortunately, statistics impact the lives of real people. One of them is a graduate student in the history department. His name is Alan, and he was advised earlier this week his position as a GA is being cut due to lack of funding. Alan is a disabled veteran and Purple Heart recipient for injuries sustained in Desert Storm. He lives with us at Southern Hills but will be forced to leave school without his degree because he can no longer afford housing, food and the medications he needs.

But not to worry. We have our basketball coach, so the sun will come out tomorrow.
http://media.www.siude.com/media/storage/paper1096/news/2007/04/12/LetterToTheEditor/Letter.In.Regards.To.Lowerys.Salary.Raise-2836791.shtml

[WSUfan]

A few replies (or parts of replies) on SalukiTalk in that thread:


Let's briefly disect this analysis... The United States is deeply in debt... The state of Illinois is running a deficit... The university is currently cutting it's budget due to shortfalls... SIU hoops is the cash cow of the Missouri Valley Conference and currently helps support ALL athletics at the university. Sounds like the right person got a raise.


Tom Cruise , Julia Roberts, Jim Carrey? All make 20 million per film. A whole lot more than the President, The Governor or the President of SIU. The point? Its what the market will bear Ruth. Its Economics 101. Now is 20 Mil a lot of money? Yes . DO they deserve it? Who is to say but if the public will pay the ticket price and the studios will pay the money, then that is whats called the market. Wake up for cryin out loud.


I have no use (at all) for Ruth Pommier (and I don't mind her knowing it even though I have no idea who she is)....I've said it once and I'll say it again....if the university decided to spend $750,000 on advertising, they would get MUCH less bang for the buck.....


wish they would just fire this woman and put her salary back in the pool for faculty pay increases. What is she "bringing to the table"/what has she contributed to the university? It's time for Ruthy to go. The University doesn't need anymore negativity or under-achievers.


Sneering at someone like Ruth, who respectfully disagrees with your opinion, is alot easier than actually addressing their points on their merits. And to be frank, her overall argument is so full of red herrings and other faulty logic (most importantly with respect to comparative salaries and salary levels for non-revenue sports) that her overall argument does not hold together [C-].
That said, she incidentally makes two important points:
1. The contract does not GUARANTEE that CLO will be here for the next seven years.
2. The University has a disaster on its hands IF the new revenue streams which Super Mario has promised fail to cover the salary increase, although it is a morale issue rather than a moral issue. IF other budget lines are plundered, then the University will have a morale disaster on its hands that will trump the benefit gained from CLO staying.
And please please please CLO, keep your mouth shut with regards to this letter. I know you were not ungrateful last year, but that is how your comments ending up appearing, and they destroyed the ability of persons like myself to speak openly in support of your raise.

[SiuCubFan8]

Point?

[DUBulldog]

Thanks for sharing that.

Be sure to read the responses at the end of the letter as well. I didn't see any that sided with the writer.

[WSUfan]

Kramerfan86: She is exactly as I always pictured her, overweight, unattractive, mean looking, and therefore bitter at the world.

Little Twist: Come on now guys. I don't support the personal attacks.

There's a real good chance that none of us is making any money with royalties from Calvin Klein modelling gigs.

There's no real reason to call anyone's opinion "stupid".

There are private schools (Gonzaga, Drake, Creighton, Duke, etc etc) that don't have to report what their coaches make. SIU is a public institution, and guess what, the figures are public too, and subject to scrutiny.

Embrace the debate. Acknowledge that the price of admission, and the pressure to succeed has just been increased, perhaps exponentially.

And lastly, I have said before, but will say again, we will know that we have arrived when we schedule nothing but gimme's at home, and don't play a real away game until January.


dakyne: I don't think personal attacks are necessary either. But while Ruth's concerns are valid, her conclusions are wrong. Even her assumptions are wrong, as most of CLo's bump in salary will be totally funded by donations--and not SIU.


hockeygoon96: looks like another editorial needs to be written to correct the dumb broad on her presidential figures and the options for the Grad assistant. That will teach a university official to do some research before she posts "so called facts"

Now I see why our leaders want a better research reputation for the university.....


XSaluki: This is getting good. Wow. And here I thought that the off season would be uneventful.

XSaluki offers one reason for starting this VT thread. :naughty:

[WSUfan]

Thanks for sharing that.

Be sure to read the responses at the end of the letter as well. I didn't see any that sided with the writer.

The following post is representative of the opinions of some people on SalukiTalk.
saluki_slam: Do you think her retirement will ACTUALLY stop her from protesting Athletics? She'll be one those "pain-in-the-a**e*" till the day she dies and blows away, or TY blows her and her car up. Which ever comes first.

I don't know the history. If SIU justified CL's salary increase in part on the basis of increasing enrollment (and I don't know if this is true), then an enrollment decrease of 1500 is worth mentioning; I see no flaw in Ruth's logic in bringing up this issue. SIU posters are claiming her logic is wrong. :confused1:

[XSaluki]

I don't know the history. If SIU justified CL's salary increase in part on the basis of increasing enrollment (and I don't know if this is true), then an enrollment decrease of 1500 is worth mentioning; I see no flaw in Ruth's logic in bringing up this issue. SIU posters are claiming her logic is wrong. :confused1:
Most/all (reality of this to be proven later) is based on private funds.

However, even if it was all based on enrollment:

- I have a company that has product X.
- Sales has been down the past couple of years.
- This year product X got millions $ worth of brand recognition across all media outlets for 250K (and requests about purchasing are up).
- Going to 700K seems like a great use of money based on the previous returns.

You can either cut & slash and keep the trend, or try to use a small amount of money in an agressive attempt to help the product increase sales.

That is just me, but I am in private enterprise. It is hard for me to put my government thinking cap on and come up with a better use of the money.

[WSUfan]

Most/all (reality of this to be proven later) is based on private funds.

However, even if it was all based on enrollment:

- I have a company that has product X.
- Sales has been down the past couple years.
- This year product X got millions $ worth of brand recognition across all media outlets for 250K (and admissions request are up).
- Going to 700K seems like a great use of money based on the previous returns.

You can either cut slash and keep the trend, or try to use a small amount of money in an agressive attempt to help the product increase sales.

That is just me, but I am in private enterprise. It is hard for me to put my government thinking cap on and come up with a better use of the money.

XSaluki: I'm in favor of keeping good coaches in the Valley. However the attacks on ST against "Ruth" are interesting. I guess she is a real liability to SIU. However I found a link on the ST thread which had these:

Pommier received the University Civil Service Woman of Distinction Award in 1998 and was also given the Civil Service Outstanding Civil Servant Award in 2005. Pommier claims Irish luck had something to do with her success.

But through it all, Bateman said Pommier has been a proponent of SIUC.
"The university is losing an asset by Ruth retiring," she said.
Civil Service Council President Jay Brooks said he admired the work Pommier did before he met her nearly 10 years ago. Brooks said they were colleagues on the Civil Service Council and said Pommier has been held with high regard by many civil service employees.
Brooks said Pommier has often used her resources to help those who couldn't help themselves.
"She is a voice, many times, for folks who have no voice, as an advocate," he said.
http://media.www.siude.com/media/storage/paper1096/news/2007/04/25/Campus/Clerk.Career.Not.Just.A.Desk.Job-2878137.shtml

[rjl]

It always "weirds" me out to read a post started by a fan of one school with quotes they took from another school's fan board.

[WSUfan]

It always "weirds" me out to read a post started by a fan of one school with quotes they took from another school's fan board.

I recommend reading other boards. The Bluejay Cafe can be interesting. Sometimes SalukiTalk is interesting. Panther Nation, Redbirdfan, Drake Nation, etc. are often uninteresting because posts are usually infrequent. ShockerNet seems to be the most active of the Valley message boards (other than VT).

ShockerNet has had heated discussions (e.g. bringing back football) in the past. My opinion is that the discussion of Lowery's salary raise on SalukiTalk is more personal and bitter than any I have seen on a Valley message board. People on SalukiTalk also seem to want to get rid of Dan Callahan:
Should we replace the baseball coach at the end of the year?
Yes 51% 51% [ 17 ]
No 24% 24% [ 8 ]
I don't know 15% 15% [ 5 ]
I don't care 9% 9% [ 3 ]
http://www.salukitalk.net/st/viewtopic.php?t=14339&sid=39b11ee1cb51474466875c80954f1301

At a time when the university is in financial trouble, it is interesting that they found donors to pay for Lowery and, I presume, to fund Saluki Way; many schools would try to get some of those donors to contribute to academic aspects of the university. I have no idea of what are SIU's needs but many of the comments on SalukiTalk do remind me of the stereotype of ignorant sports fans who really don't care about the university but only about its sports programs. Is this related to the "John Belushi" and "Animal House" image of SIU?
It used to be that the only thing tying SIUC to that riotous film "Animal House" was a navy blue sweatshirt with "COLLEGE" written on the front, but SIU ties to the movie grew deeper recently.
SIUC came in sixth place as one of the top party schools resembling the movie "Animal House" in the United States, according to a survey done by Kaplan Publishing.
http://newshound.de.siu.edu/online/stories/storyReader$4936

[SiuCubFan8]

This thread is stupid. :banghead:

[XSaluki]

This thread is stupid. :banghead:
Someone has an agenda. :naughty:

Every off season we have this kind of thread. Someone stands on a chair and complains about another message board and the 'classless' fans.

After a poop-flinging festival of hypocrisy, it ends with a picture of a guy with a mullet standing in front of a trailer.

[MoValley John]

Sounds to me like she needs to meet Mr. Howie Feltersnatch.

[Aegyptus]

Good lord, I hope we don't start moving back up the party school rankings. We have pretty much not been in any of the recent party school rankings and I like it that way.

As for the Ruth P. controversy, they are all good points, but in the end, it is easier for our graduates to get jobs around the country because the men that control those positions typically have brackets in March. Because of SIU's prominence in the bracket for the past decade, people now know who SIU is. If you were to go to NY and try to get a job with an SIU degree 10-15 years ago, very few would know us. Now, with the exception of women, most do know us. I do not know what that is worth, but it is worth a heck of a lot more than 750,000 per year. And remember, the 750,000 just started this year. If Lowrey can deliver on his promise, there is absolutely no reason whatsoever that we cannot be a national university (instead of our typical current classification of a "directional school"). If we can keep Lowrey and do Saluki Way and some elements of Southern at 150, there is no reason SIU cannot reach its goals.

Sometimes I wonder if the Valley realizes what they have in SIU (and why I am constantly concerned about the Valley's academics).

Not to brag, but here are SIU's peer institutions they use in their own internal documents and also used by U.S. News and World Report: Auburn, Iowa State, Kansas State, Ohio U, Oklahoma State, Texas Tech, Washington State, West Virginia.

Its aspirational peers are: Louisiana State, Mizzou, Colorado and Kentucky.

What do all those schools (except Ohio U.) have that SIU does not, national name recognition. How do you get national name recognition. Well, several ways. You could have Nobel Laureates, Senators, exceptionally strong academics, plus not so good things like school shootings (who can't tell you a little about Kent State), riots like SIU used to have, etc. Assuming we are not going to have any Nobel Laureates in the near future and we do not want to revert back to the bad old days, athletics is a great way to brand your school nationally.

SIU has to fight to be Illinois' Purdue. I'll explain. Most states in the midwest have at least 2 large, nationally ranked, public institutions. Here are the examples:
Iowa: U of Iowa & Iowa State.
Michigan: U of Michigan and Michigan State.
Indiana: Indiana U. & Purdue.
Kansas: U. of Kansas and Kansas State
Kentucky: U of Kentucky & Louisville.
Ohio: Ohio State & Cincinnati.
Pennsylvania: Penn State, Pittsburgh, Temple

Some don't obviously, like Wisconsin, Minnesota, Missouri (sorry bears).

But what is the second, large state school in Illinois? Really, what is your answer to that? I am increasingly afraid that the answer to that question is U of I-Chicago. They are beating SIU in enrollment, academic status, etc., but they are not beating SIU in sports. When it comes to funding from the legislature, that is an extremely important question. If the legislators just got finished cheering on SIU in March and they allocate funds in April, it is much, much more likely that SIU will get a bigger part of the pie.

The money is worth it because this generation of professionals is aware of SIU, now they just need to boost enrollment.

[DUBulldog]

Is this related to the "John Belushi" and "Animal House" image of SIU?
It used to be that the only thing tying SIUC to that riotous film "Animal House" was a navy blue sweatshirt with "COLLEGE" written on the front, but SIU ties to the movie grew deeper recently.
SIUC came in sixth place as one of the top party schools resembling the movie "Animal House" in the United States, according to a survey done by Kaplan Publishing.
http://newshound.de.siu.edu/online/stories/storyReader$4936

I had to LOL when I looked at the rankings....the number one school listed was California State University @ Chicago....California has apparently recently expanded its borders.

http://newshound.de.siu.edu/online/picture$4939

[Aegyptus]

I had to LOL when I looked at the rankings....the number one school listed was California State University @ Chicago....California has apparently recently expanded its borders.

Yeah, I know. Someone must have been partying a little too hard when they wrote that. I assume they mean Cal State - Chico, which has a bad rep as a party school.

[MoValley John]

Yeah, I know. Someone must have been partying a little too hard when they wrote that. I assume they mean Cal State - Chico, which has a bad rep as a party school.

What's so strange abbout that? The Cal State system is large and is located in many major cities. Other universities do similar things, the University of Phoenix has an Omaha campus. They might even have one in Des Moines. They offer courses in paralegal and gunsmithing.

http://clogic.eserver.org/2004/images/phoenix.gif

[WSUfan]

Yeah, I know. Someone must have been partying a little too hard when they wrote that. I assume they mean Cal State - Chico, which has a bad rep as a party school.

They mean Chico. (Probably too many liquid lunches for the writer.)

I am in favor of paying good MVC coaches top salaries and I was happy to see SIU give Lowery a big raise. At the same time, I didn't know (until today) that SIU was cutting funding for academics. Donors are usually asked to contribute to particular areas. If a university asks for money for basketball, they probably get some donations for basketball. If that university asks for money for an academic area, they probably get donations for academics.

Let me contrast SIU and WSU. Both will pay the basketball coach $750,000+. SIU is cutting funding for academic areas. WSU is not. In fact, a friend sent me an email today which said:
WSU College of Engineering to benefit from $2 million gift
A news conference will be held at 2 p.m. today (Thursday, May 3) in the lobby of Wallace Hall to announce a $2 million gift to WSU’s College of Engineering.
The Wichita Eagle had this:
The final budget bill came close to fulfilling a request from the aviation industry and WSU to expand research capabilities at the National Institute for Aviation Research.
The industry had asked for $5 million; the Legislature approved $4.75 million.
http://www.kansas.com/196/story/60620.html

WSU can afford to request donations for basketball because it is financially sound. I'm not sure SIU should be using donors' money for basketball when academics are being cut; I wonder if this is a wise choice. However, the issue that really offended me was the unfair treatment on ST of a SIU employee who raised questions (seemingly valid and important questions) about Lowery's huge salary increase at a time of budget cuts. Now you know why I'm on a soapbox.

[dakyne]

Chico State = lots of sinsemillan.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannabis_(drug)_cultivation

[dogdays]

I find it iteresting that a WSU fan is now criticizing SIU for paying its coach when most Shocker fans have been for years ripping SIU for not paying its coach. Now SIU steps up and bang , they shouldnt be paying t heir coach. If you lived in Carbondale then you would understand that Ruth is and always has been one to seek attention in the media, she has always been anti athletics and has a very narrow view of what she believes the University ought to be or represent. Thus, some of the negative comments about her. I do agree that it is childish boorish to attack her personally over her looks etc. WSU is fortunate that they have resources that SIU doesnt have . That said, like it or not, donors are more likely to give to a successful sports program then to most other programs. But it seems to me that this Shocker fan was just trying to stir the pot by finding something negative to again complain about SIU . Lastly the revenue streams are coming from two different places, thus the disparity and the ability to pay or not pay.
Maybe you should worry about your business and we will worry about ours.

[WSUfan]

Or not (i.e. students are unhappy about this issue).
http://media.www.siude.com/media/storage/paper1096/news/2007/05/03/LetterToTheEditor/Letter.Dropping.Enrollment.Rates-2892644.shtml?reffeature=recentlycommentedstoriest ab
Letter: Dropping enrollment rates
Renee Torres
Issue date: 5/3/07 Section: Letter to the Editor
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Page 1 of 1
Dear Editor:

SIUC needs to take a good, hard look at why students are reluctant to come to our university. We place our sports programs at a higher priority than our excellent academic programs. In addition, the university's own figures of cost of attendance need updating as the price of everything keeps increasing. The university's cost of attendance does not factor in the rise in gas prices.

As a non-traditional student who travels 150 miles per day to attend classes, I can attest to the fact that most of my financial aid over and above tuition and books goes toward gas. This leaves no room for rent, utilities or food and certainly no time to work measurable hours at a job close to home to pay for those necessities.

The policy of withholding scholarship monies over and above the set amount of attendance and financial aid received is detrimental to all students, both local and commuters. When this occurred to me, I sought help from both the provost's office and financial aid who basically told me that there was nothing they could do.

That was the rules and rules are rules! It's a shame our university, administrators and alumni are more focused on providing an exorbitant salary to the basketball coach instead of providing additional funding to help with academics. Perhaps we should look to the many administrators our university has to voluntarily take pay cuts to offset the loss in funding. Now that the colleges are being forced to begin cutting costs this will result in less instructors and fewer classes being offered. But we will have a winning basketball team for everyone to see!



Renee Torres
junior studying mortuary science

[jaypharmalum]

Sure, $750k is a good sum of money, but it's hard for me to believe that academic funding would need to be cut pay that salary. Aren't there some SIU boosters who pitch in for this?

[MoValley John]

Or not (i.e. students are unhappy about this issue).
http://media.www.siude.com/media/storage/paper1096/news/2007/05/03/LetterToTheEditor/Letter.Dropping.Enrollment.Rates-2892644.shtml?reffeature=recentlycommentedstoriest ab
Letter: Dropping enrollment rates
Renee Torres
Issue date: 5/3/07 Section: Letter to the Editor
Print
Email

Article Tools

Page 1 of 1
Dear Editor:

SIUC needs to take a good, hard look at why students are reluctant to come to our university. We place our sports programs at a higher priority than our excellent academic programs. In addition, the university's own figures of cost of attendance need updating as the price of everything keeps increasing. The university's cost of attendance does not factor in the rise in gas prices.

As a non-traditional student who travels 150 miles per day to attend classes, I can attest to the fact that most of my financial aid over and above tuition and books goes toward gas. This leaves no room for rent, utilities or food and certainly no time to work measurable hours at a job close to home to pay for those necessities.

The policy of withholding scholarship monies over and above the set amount of attendance and financial aid received is detrimental to all students, both local and commuters. When this occurred to me, I sought help from both the provost's office and financial aid who basically told me that there was nothing they could do.

That was the rules and rules are rules! It's a shame our university, administrators and alumni are more focused on providing an exorbitant salary to the basketball coach instead of providing additional funding to help with academics. Perhaps we should look to the many administrators our university has to voluntarily take pay cuts to offset the loss in funding. Now that the colleges are being forced to begin cutting costs this will result in less instructors and fewer classes being offered. But we will have a winning basketball team for everyone to see!



Renee Torres
junior studying mortuary science

They offer Mortuary Sciences at SIU? I wonder what they do in lab. That creeps me out!

[landmark]

Sure, $750k is a good sum of money, but it's hard for me to believe that academic funding would need to be cut pay that salary. Aren't there some SIU boosters who pitch in for this?


DING DING DING we have a winner!!!! The majority of Clo's new deal is coming from private donors not from academic departments. If the student wants to compalin complain about the lack of marketing done my our school, blame the administration but dont blame Coach Lowery who has done more to help market our school than the schools marketing department has done. Ruth and most of the people that have been so upset fail to read anything about the deal they just see the amount. Dont blame CLO and the AD for finding a way to pay him. If ruth is so concerned tell her to set up a scholarship for a student or now that she is retired, she can go out and try to get people to donate to SIU.

[WSUfan]

http://media.www.siude.com/media/storage/paper1096/news/2007/05/01/Campus/Departments.Determine.Budget.Cuts-2889195.shtml

http://www.southernillinoisan.com/articles/2007/02/16/local/19247005.txt
FUNDING FOR STATE UNIVERSITIES - THE REAL ETHICAL DILEMMA
University professors have many reasons to be angry with the state. Testing of ethics from a state with an ethical record about as clean as a sewer pipe is a ludicrous proposition and a minor irritation, but it isn't a battle where victory will ensure the students who depend upon public higher education for their futures continue to benefit.

http://www.southernillinoisan.com/articles/2007/04/04/top/19833092.txt
Whether the university can pull off its fundraising goals or not, once Lowery signs the contract his salary is $750,000 a year. Moccia said if the university doesn't raise enough private money it will have to make up the difference.

The difficult thing using google is sort out current bad news for SIU from older bad news for SIU. Budgets cuts or concerns in 1996, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2006, etc.

[landmark]

yes the athletic department will make up the diffrence but that means the ATHLETIC DEPARTMENT will be in trouble like under Jim hart and the non rev sports will suffer not academic departments so nice try.

[MoValley John]

yes the athletic department will make up the diffrence but that means the ATHLETIC DEPARTMENT will be in trouble like under Jim hart and the non rev sports will suffer not academic departments so nice try.
http://static.flickr.com/37/74438435_863a5de8f8_o.jpg

[Aegyptus]

Both sides are right here. It is not good to be spending on athletics when academics are being cut (I don't think they will find it in private dollars - even if they do that will leave nothing for Saluki Way).

Also, it is impossible to generate media coverage at that kind of value.

So, what is SIU to do? Well, since an ex-politician is in charge of the university, you do what is most popular. When the Ag department or the Department of mortuary science loses a faculty member, no one really notices unless you are in the department. But, when the team goes the Sweet Sixteen, well, thats the headline for a week.

Poshard is taking a risk that greater athletic funding (no one goes to football games anyway, why do we need a new stadium) will translate into greater academics and enrollment in the long term. Frankly, I don't think it is that bad of a bet, but it is a bet nonetheless. Just as some SIU lawyer has a better chance of getting hired in New York, SIU professors who write grants have a better chance of being accepted by the Federal Government and Foundations. Also, SIU will naturally attract better young faculty who see the school as up and coming. SIU will never be able to change the fact they are 2 hours from any metro area, so they have to find a way to lure students that could otherwise go to UIC or SIUE down to Carbondale. Cheering on a Sweet Sixteen team in the student section is not a bad way to do that.

But, it is a double edged sword. Unless you are Louisville (who just took Pitino's salary to 2.5 mil. till 2013) it is still academics that drive universities. The vast majority of revenue comes from tuition and state appropriations. Graduate students, in particular, pay higher rates, stay around longer, and can generate the kind of grant dollars SIU wants. One individual may not make that big of a difference, but when you have 5,000 graduate students like SIU has, that is a huge economic engine. I think these budget cuts are hitting graduate students in specialized fields (non-english 101) the hardest because it is easy to cut the salary of these folks who are non-tenured. It is hard to keep up with Auburn, Oklahoma State and West Virginia when you are losing or at least not adding graduate students.

It is a huge risk, for sure. But, it is always possible that Lowrey has another winning year (we get the benefit of that) and then moves on looking for the 1.5 mil. and we get the buy-out which will probably cover the salary of the next coach we bring in. Perhaps they are not spending as much on this coach as we all think.

[MoValley John]

Both sides are right here. It is not good to be spending on athletics when academics are being cut (I don't think they will find it in private dollars - even if they do that will leave nothing for Saluki Way).

Also, it is impossible to generate media coverage at that kind of value.

So, what is SIU to do? Well, since an ex-politician is in charge of the university, you do what is most popular. When the Ag department or the Department of mortuary science loses a faculty member, no one really notices unless you are in the department.

Speaking of mortuary sciences, does "loses a faculty member" mean that sombody died?

I never have had anything against SIU, but knowing they got a bunch of "Future Morticians of America" on campus, just made the facility a little creepy.

http://www.emagazine.com/images/0303ib_cadaver.jpg

[Dawgbit]

They offer Mortuary Sciences at SIU? I wonder what they do in lab. That creeps me out!


They embalm deceased Shocker fans.

Hey WSUFAN, how did your team do vs. SIU last year, or for that matter, for the last several years? :no:

What a fricking loser.

[Dawgbit]

Almost forgot.



Turgshall is a great coach.

[Awesome Sauce Malone]

Wichita State's record against SIU has nothing to do with this thread.

the next response would be something such as " I guess they dont teach you to read in Carbondale"

But given the fact I have no clue what the point of this thread is myself ill gracefully bow out.

But seriously why would anybody other than a SIU alum, student or resident of Carbondale give 2 poops about how they are raising the money for CLO

[WSUfan]

Wichita State's record against SIU has nothing to do with this thread.

the next response would be something such as " I guess they dont teach you to read in Carbondale"

But given the fact I have no clue what the point of this thread is myself ill gracefully bow out.

But seriously why would anybody other than a SIU alum, student or resident of Carbondale give 2 poops about how they are raising the money for CLO

SIU actually has a very strong academic reputation. (OK, not MIT but still quite good.) I know a couple SIU professors or former SIU professors and they seem like good people. My kids are in college (at WSU) and I understand how ever increasing tuition can add up for parents. But the bottom line is that the thread on SalukiTalk really makes sports fans look bad (& I'm a sports fan) - read all eleven pages of that thread and state your impression here - and an employee of SIU who probably is annoying but is trying to stand up for a segment of the SIU community (e.g. probably lots of students) is personally attacked on SalukiTalk (with her email address and phone number posted) and people wishing she and her car would be blown up.
bigjsaluki: Ruth needs to zip her lip, or I'll break her hip. Very Happy Laughing j/k
Ruth obviously can't see the positive light CLO casts on this University.
in case you're interested, Ruth can be reached at her campus phone # 453-2201
or at
rpommier@midwest.net

SIUGRAD99: Screw it, someone post an email address for her that works. The one listed on the SIU directory doesn't which is a shame.




PS Some interesting posts from the ST thread:

SalukiProf: 2. The University has a disaster on its hands IF the new revenue streams which Super Mario has promised fail to cover the salary increase, although it is a morale issue rather than a moral issue. IF other budget lines are plundered, then the University will have a morale disaster on its hands that will trump the benefit gained from CLO staying.

jjunge: Lets be honest...

(1) Ruth's argument is pathetic. Actually, it's not even really an argument, it's more of a statement of opinion.

(2) Even though I believe CLo's raise was a good idea... most of the posts on here bashing her are not valid arguments either.

I think SalukiProf makes some good points in his posts. If you look past Ruth's logic and ignore her pretentious attitude, she actually has some reasonable concerns. It seems to me like this thread has become "group therapy" for the majority opinion so I'm gonna try to go a different route...

Assuming we take Ruth out of the equation... What should we expect from CLo now? Anything? Or are we just paying him for past performance? If so, is it really worth it considering the budget crisis we are in? Do the potential rewards outweigh the risks?

[DUBulldog]

But the bottom line is that the thread on SalukiTalk really makes sports fans look bad (& I'm a sports fan) - read all eleven pages of that thread and state your impression here - and an employee of SIU who probably is annoying but is trying to stand up for a segment of the SIU community (e.g. probably lots of students) is personally attacked on SalukiTalk (with her email address and phone number posted) and people wishing she and her car would be blown up.
bigjsaluki: Ruth needs to zip her lip, or I'll break her hip. Very Happy Laughing j/k
Ruth obviously can't see the positive light CLO casts on this University.
in case you're interested, Ruth can be reached at her campus phone # 453-2201
or at
rpommier@midwest.net

The bottom line is that if you're that concerned about the behavior on SalukiTalk, perhaps you should bring it up there, rather than on ValleyTalk. :innocent:

[WSUfan]

The bottom line is that if you're that concerned about the behavior on SalukiTalk, perhaps you should bring it up there, rather than on ValleyTalk. :innocent:
1. I don't have an account there.
2. The SIU fans on ST who wanted to tone things down were not having great success.
3. If SIU fans on VT go back to ST and say "You're making SIU look bad", then all of these posts (on VT and ST) might be removed or edited. I would be happy to remove my posts.

[DoubleJayAlum]

Wichita State's record against SIU has nothing to do with this thread.

the next response would be something such as " I guess they dont teach you to read in Carbondale"

But given the fact I have no clue what the point of this thread is myself ill gracefully bow out.

But seriously why would anybody other than a SIU alum, student or resident of Carbondale give 2 poops about how they are raising the money for CLO

I think the point of this thread is obvious. Its yet another attempt by a particular group of WSU posters who just try to stir up chit around here. Its a shame because there are some quality WSU posters, but they are routinely overshadowed by the a-hole, douchebag contingent.

[barkeep1967]

I think the point of this thread is obvious. Its yet another attempt by a particular group of WSU posters who just try to stir up chit around here. Its a shame because there are some quality WSU posters, but they are routinely overshadowed by the a-hole, douchebag contingent.


Yet dare somebody even questiong anything pertaining to the Mighty WSU and they are trolls.

[dakyne]

aegyptus,

Great post.

[underdawg2]

1. I don't have an account there.
2. The SIU fans on ST who wanted to tone things down were not having great success.
3. If SIU fans on VT go back to ST and say "You're making SIU look bad", then all of these posts (on VT and ST) might be removed or edited. I would be happy to remove my posts.


Any chance you could get me some of the stuff you're using to keep this hard on you seem to have for this innane subject? I 'd, of course put it to better use:lol:

[skinny_uncle]

They offer Mortuary Sciences at SIU? I wonder what they do in lab. That creeps me out!
We fondly call it pre-Morgue.

[shockerfan13]

I think the point of this thread is obvious. Its yet another attempt by a particular group of WSU posters who just try to stir up chit around here. Its a shame because there are some quality WSU posters, but they are routinely overshadowed by the a-hole, douchebag contingent.

If it's that bad, and everyone knows that those "certain posters" are just trying to stir things up....then why respond to the posts? There are many CU/SIU...etc fans that try and "stir things up" with WSU posters and most of the time I just ignore them...it's not THAT hard. Every once in a while I join in for some laughs...BUT IGNORE THOSE POSTS PEOPLE. LOL

[MSNSaluki]

If it's that bad, and everyone knows that those "certain posters" are just trying to stir things up....then why respond to the posts? There are many CU/SIU...etc fans that try and "stir things up" with WSU posters and most of the time I just ignore them...it's not THAT hard. Every once in a while I join in for some laughs...BUT IGNORE THOSE POSTS PEOPLE. LOL

Well said.:clap: