P.J. Couisnard declares for NBA draft [Archive]

ShockerEngr

05-04-2007, 10:00 AM

Cooz wants to play in the NBA....trying out for the draft this year will give him a much better idea of what he has to do to make himself a better prospect. Going through the draft while you still have opportunity for another year of learning could be very beneficial to him.

I don't see him getting drafted....but if he is goin to to get in eventually, this experience certainly won't hurt.

DawgieStyle

05-04-2007, 10:23 AM

Surpised to find his name on the official list of early entries into the NBA draft. He did not sign an agent which gives him the chance to come back, which I am sure he will be doing.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/basketball/ncaa/early.entries/index.html

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: April Fools day was last month boys.

WSUbballer

05-04-2007, 11:57 AM

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: April Fools day was last month boys.

Noboby says he was or is gonna be drafted. So I'm assuming you're laughing at the tardiness of the news..

Chairman of the Boards

05-04-2007, 12:42 PM

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: April Fools day was last month boys.

I honestly believe PJ will play in the NBA someday, however not next year. From my perspective this is a very smart move on his part. He can improve his weaknesses and learn to play another position next year. Regardless, lack of effort won't be the reason for him not making it to the NBA... he's a player I want to watch in the Valley next year.

:valley:

DawgieStyle

05-04-2007, 12:44 PM

Noboby says he was or is gonna be drafted. So I'm assuming you're laughing at the tardiness of the news..

no, im laughing at the fact he thinks he has a shot at the NBA. I know none of you have publically said he could, but apperently he does....which is laughable. There have been far better players from the valley better than Cooz who didn't sniff the NBA.

Although, as laughable as it is, I do applaud him for chasing his dream whether it is feasible or not, that shows a lot of character and determination on his part, too bad those traits don't make NBA players.

Its not the effort thats funny, its the image of him going up against the likes of D. Wade or Steve Nash or heck even Kirk Hinrich, that has me rolling on the floor.

rjl

05-04-2007, 12:54 PM

Doggie, not surprisingly you're failing to see how competing at NBA camps in front of NBA scouts can't be anything but a good thing for PJ.

shockerfan13

05-04-2007, 01:00 PM

no, im laughing at the fact he thinks he has a shot at the NBA. I know none of you have publically said he could, but apperently he does....which is laughable. There have been far better players from the valley better than Cooz who didn't sniff the NBA.

Although, as laughable as it is, I do applaud him for chasing his dream whether it is feasible or not, that shows a lot of character and determination on his part, too bad those traits don't make NBA players.

Its not the effort thats funny, its the image of him going up against the likes of D. Wade or Steve Nash or heck even Kirk Hinrich, that has me rolling on the floor.

Him doing this doesn't just help his exposure with NBA scouts and teams but as well as overseas. He may be the one laughing last as no one knows what his true intentions or expectations are.

TurFin

05-04-2007, 01:03 PM

PJ is actually doing this because there has been some cursory interest in him.

Not that he'll get drafted, that's not what this is about. It's about finding out where he stands and how much work is needed on the deficiencies within his game. It also gives him the opportunity to put himself and his name even farther into the NBA scout network. Some NBA scouts have grown very fond of his defensive ability, but he still needs to work on his perimeter game.

DS...This isn't as laughable as you think. PJ is making calculated decisions on information his family has gathered from individuals that know and are close to the league. He has a strong family base and his parents are on top of whatever PJ is doing.

He'll be back, but with a better understanding of what his professional heights and/or limitations may be.

goaces

05-04-2007, 01:10 PM

shockerfan13

05-04-2007, 01:16 PM

I have only seen P.J. play a few times (against the Aces), and in the MVC tournament. Loved his game but never really thought of him as an NBA player. What do most Shocker fans believe about his ability to make that kind of jump?

Most don't feel he will this year. Future, who knows. He has the potential, but has to work pretty hard. He'll find out just how hard and he'll give it his best shot.

MikeKennedyRulz

05-04-2007, 01:37 PM

This year, not much of a chance. But, if he uses this experience to figure out what he needs to work on, who knows. He definitely has the defense to compete at a high level, but he needs to develop a better long range shot to play the 2 at the NBA level. I am a bit skeptical, but I know that he has the determination and work ethic.

SubGod22

05-04-2007, 01:42 PM

I wouldn't be suprised to one day see him in the NBA. His work ethic will give him a shot and by going to the camps he'll learn where he stands and what he needs to work on I think he could make it eventually. Not this year, but after that it all depends.

Aargh

05-04-2007, 01:46 PM

Cooz is really unlikely to go league as a 3. He's obviously better-suited as a perimeter player in the NBA. PJ will be evaluated and probably told to work on his offensive skills on the perimeter.

Marshall is recruiting players that appear to allow PJ some perimeter time next year.

I'd be utterly amazed if PJ was drafted this year, but if he was I'd wish him the best.

dregn

05-04-2007, 01:50 PM

If PJ ever makes it I see him as a Trenton Hassell type of player. A role player who's job it is to frustrate the best guard on the other team when playing defense.

DawgieStyle

05-04-2007, 02:22 PM

Doggie, not surprisingly you're failing to see how competing at NBA camps in front of NBA scouts can't be anything but a good thing for PJ.

I don't see it. I think these camps are bad for these kids. Instead of focusing on their current team and building chemistry and working out team plays, sets, and defense, they are off trying to improve only themselves in hopes they'll make the NBA to do what? You guessed it, get rich.

I hate these camps, they're one of the problems with both the NBA and the college game. They take away the emphasis on their current team and college education, and place it on individual talent and the almighty dollar. This where many a college player, makes the mistake of making the decision to leave early for the NBA, when they have no business in doing so.

These kids are supposed to be amateurs, more exact, student atheletes. Why in the world are they at camps to improve their NBA game at the professional level when they have prior responsibilities to their scholarship and education.

rjl

05-04-2007, 02:26 PM

I don't see it. I think these camps are bad for these kids. Instead of focusing on their current team and building chemistry and working out team plays, sets, and defense, they are off trying to improve only themselves in hopes they'll make the NBA to do what? You guessed it, get rich.

You act like it's either one or the other.

"Instead of"

These camps are going on when there isn't any allowed college practice taking place. You know that, right?

So, instead of playing in some pick-up games, he's testing his mettle against the best college players in the nation.

Again, HOW IS THAT BAD?

The best college players in the nation strive to get better with the PRIMARY intent of playing in the NBA, whether they are practicing with their college team or performing drills in front of scouts, so your reasoning just doesn't work.

DawgieStyle

05-04-2007, 02:36 PM

You act like it's either one or the other.

"Instead of"

These camps are going on when there isn't any allowed college practice taking place. You know that, right?

So, instead of playing in some pick-up games, he's testing his mettle against the best college players in the nation.

Again, HOW IS THAT BAD?

The best college players in the nation strive to get better with the PRIMARY intent of playing in the NBA, whether they are practicing with their college team or performing drills in front of scouts, so your reasoning just doesn't work.

it does work. The NBA is all about individual stars, talent, one on one. etc. etc. etc. If you don't think the advice and coaching they are getting at these camps isn't focused on that so they have a better shot at the NBA, you're crazy.

These camps may help their NBA ability and attract scouts, but it is my opinion that the type of game they are teaching at these camps is harmful to the college game and harmful the the college teams, such WSU, that the undrafted players will return to. Now that player is even more focused on getting to the NBA and doing what he needs to do to get there, the team game of college basketball falls by the wayside while these kids try to impress the scouts. Its pathetic, and I'm not singling out Cousinard, I'm calling them all out. These camps are bad for the game.

DoubleJayAlum

05-04-2007, 02:49 PM

it does work. The NBA is all about individual stars, talent, one on one. etc. etc. etc. If you don't think the advice and coaching they are getting at these camps isn't focused on that so they have a better shot at the NBA, you're crazy.

These camps may help their NBA ability and attract scouts, but it is my opinion that the type of game they are teaching at these camps is harmful to the college game and harmful the the college teams, such WSU, that the undrafted players will return to. Now that player is even more focused on getting to the NBA and doing what he needs to do to get there, the team game of college basketball falls by the wayside while these kids try to impress the scouts. Its pathetic, and I'm not singling out Cousinard, I'm calling them all out. These camps are bad for the game.

Its rare that I agree with DS, but I have to agree with at least part of what he is saying here. When Creighton struggled early last year, some critics thought that Tolliver, and to a lesser extent Funk, were deliberately trying to work on things that scouts had told them they would need to improve on to play in the NBA. Unfortunately, working on these deficiencies didn't always fit into the offensive gameplan put together by DA. Ultimately, those two got beyond this. Nevertheless, I think it is a valid point that exposure to scouts can cause a player to become less team oriented as the player becomes more concerned about showing scouts he has improved his outside shooting, footwork, etc. rather than focusing on the coach's gameplan.

Am I saying PJ will do this? Not necessarily, but I am saying there are drawbacks to working with scouts while still trying to play the college game.

WSUbballer

05-04-2007, 03:47 PM

no, im laughing at the fact he thinks he has a shot at the NBA. I know none of you have publically said he could, but apperently he does....which is laughable. There have been far better players from the valley better than Cooz who didn't sniff the NBA.

Although, as laughable as it is, I do applaud him for chasing his dream whether it is feasible or not, that shows a lot of character and determination on his part, too bad those traits don't make NBA players.

Its not the effort thats funny, its the image of him going up against the likes of D. Wade or Steve Nash or heck even Kirk Hinrich, that has me rolling on the floor.

For the record, what's your all-time percentage on correctly predicting things?

DawgieStyle

05-04-2007, 03:51 PM

For the record, what's your all-time percentage on correctly predicting things?

what's yours miss cleo?

WSUbballer

05-04-2007, 03:52 PM

what's yours miss cleo?
0 for 0, you?

DawgieStyle

05-04-2007, 03:52 PM

0 for 0, you?

oh, so you never make predictions, or gamble, or bet?

WSUbballer

05-04-2007, 04:04 PM

oh, so you never make predictions, or gamble, or bet?
Oh I do.. I just don't lavishly and boisterously post them constantly on a college basketball site.

Funny, how you continually answer my question with a question..

So anyways, care to share the statistics?

DawgieStyle

05-04-2007, 04:16 PM

Oh I do.. I just don't lavishly and boisterously post them constantly on a college basketball site.

Funny, how you continually answer my question with a question..

So anyways, care to share the statistics?

heck if I know, I don't keep a log of what I Get right and what I get wrong. If I had to guess its probably 50/50 on sports related topics. I'm just offering up my opinion. If I'm right, cool, if I'm wrong, so what. We're talking about sports, they aren't a life or death thing.

If we start talking about world related topics and things that actually have an effect on human existence, I'd be a lot more careful and researched in my opinion or prediction. Since we're not, I'm not that worried about it.

WSUbballer

05-04-2007, 04:32 PM

50/50 on sports related topics
I didn't think it was that good, but whatever. Still nice odds though for PJ..

Ictjay

05-04-2007, 04:42 PM

For the Shox to have success, Cooz must play the 3. If he plays the 2, ballhandling and the pressure to be a consistent outside shooter will drown the team.

rjl

05-04-2007, 05:36 PM

For the Shox to have success, Cooz must play the 3. If he plays the 2, ballhandling and the pressure to be a consistent outside shooter will drown the team.

Really?

PJ has always been a guard playing out of position due to depth and need.

PJ was shooting around 40% from beyond the arc before he dislocated his thumb last season. He finished the season around 34%.

He's got great ball handling skills too.

SubGod22

05-04-2007, 05:51 PM

rjl is right. PJ shoot well enough from outside to be a threat and his ball handling skills are just fine. I don't know how he got a reputation as a bad ball handler considering he's at his best breaking people down and penetrating.

dakyne

05-04-2007, 06:11 PM

Didn't even read this thread as it's obvious, but declaring early without hiring an agent, coming back for another year to work on declared weaknesses is only a good thing for the returning player and his team. The player increases his stock by making improvements in his game, while the team gets a better player. In most cases, I've seen marked improvement in the games of players who declared early but returned for another year.

Aargh

05-04-2007, 10:36 PM

After a player sees first-hand the guys who are going league, work ethic generally goes up, up and up. PJ has never had a problem in that area, but he's going to see the elite of the radical work ethic group and what it takes to join that group.

Most players think they're going 110% and putting it all out there by working hard in practices and conditioning drills. The guys going to the next level feel a need to do more. Antoine Carr used to put on a pair of combat boots and run the stairs at a 30,000 seat football facility - after the regular basketball conditioning drills. He wanted "more".

That's what PJ's gonna see at the NBA camps. It should be an outstanding experience for PJ and should have some carry-over to the rest of the team as PJ assumes his position as SR. leader at WSU.

PJ has some mad ball-handling skills. Late in his Fr (RS) season, he was the guard who dribbled upcourt against full-court presses and he was getting minutes at PG. PJ would have been wasted at PG in Turgeon's system. In other systems, he likely would have been developed as a PG.

rjl

05-05-2007, 01:03 AM

I knew a guy who was a 3 year starter at QB in college.

After he graduated, he was drafted into the NFL.

I remember him telling me that he learned more about the position in his first 4 months in the NFL than he learned in all his 4 years in college.

You can take all this "NBA just teaches players how to be individuals and not team players" crap and shove it.

NBA teams want to win. Period. They want players who make the team better. Period.

To say otherwise is lunacy, or reasoning clouded by the kind of anti-NBA bias that seems fairly prevalent amongst those who never watch a game.

PJ will learn more about his position in the game of basketball in one week of camp than he's learned in the last year. He'll have the best college players competing next to him to set the bar.

If PJ is really moving to the 2, which is his natural position and has been discussed quite a bit for the last month or so, getting a crash course on the position courtesy of the NBA will help make up for the 3 years he's been playing a different position.

MSNSaluki

05-05-2007, 01:31 PM

I wish we lived in a world where college kids were off-limits to the lure of professional sports ... until their college eligibility was exhausted.

rjl

05-05-2007, 02:00 PM

I wish we lived in a world where college kids were off-limits to the lure of professional sports ... until their college eligibility was exhausted.

True.

But a major motivational factor for a lot of the elite college athletes--the motivation that keeps them shooting baskets long after practice is over, working out in the weight room all summer, running sprints and ladders till midnight--is the lure of big money after college.

rjl

05-05-2007, 02:05 PM

On a side note, here's an article that confirms Marshall is going to move PJ to the 2.

http://community.foxsports.com/blogs/goodmanonfox/2007/05/04/Wichita_New_Coach_Upbeat_Despite_Rough_Start

Matt and Gal will split time at the 1.

Also, the official Saturday edition of an article linked earlier adds some quotes from PJ.

http://www.kansas.com/240/story/62432.html

Couisnard isn't counting on being selected in the two rounds of the June 28 draft. He did not hire an agent and can retain his college eligibility by withdrawing his name from the draft by June 18. Couisnard, according to mock NBA Drafts on the Internet, is a longshot to be one of the 60 players selected.

"Most likely, I'll pull it out before the (June 18) deadline," he said Friday. "I want to see what opportunities there are with the draft."

Couisnard's name appeared on the list of early entrants released Thursday by the NBA, to the surprise of new Shocker coach Gregg Marshall. Couisnard said he had not mentioned his interest in the draft to Marshall because he assumed former coach Mark Turgeon passed on that information.

"Coach Marshall is a great dude," Couisnard said. "It has nothing to do with him."

Somewhat reasonable given that Marshall was hired during the home stretch of recruiting season and probably hasn't been in Wichita more than 24 hours total since his signing. A week or two ago, he was quoted as saying he hasn't slept in the same bed two nights in a row since he was hired.

Awesome Sauce Malone

05-05-2007, 02:13 PM

I think its great that he going to workout at the camps.

Pj is clearly one of the better players in the Valley *no homer*
Going to the workouts will help him with different aspects of his game.

This next year there is alot of heat falling on his shoulders unfortunately. So IMO i think this experience will help him not only on his game but leadership abilities as well.

Hell it didnt hurt Paul Miller going to the big man camp he went its sure not going to hurt Cooz playing against the top domestic and foreign talent that will be at the workouts.

dakyne

05-05-2007, 03:31 PM

rjl,

Despite being fans of rival teams, your posts on this subject have been dead on.

I watched Bobby Brown of Fullerton St. go from being a flashy all offensive point guard, to being a solid pressure perimeter on-ball defender, giving the opposing pg fits in bringing up the ball. All in one year, as he went to the same NBA camp after his junior year. He was a much better all-around player as a result, and a much bigger asset as a team player, according to his coach Burton.

Same thing occurred with Jordan Farmer, who had no defensive skills as a high schooler, to one who is now known for his defense, despite being fairly slow for a pg. Of course, Farmer had a head start, as Howland is known for teaching defense.

DawgieStyle

05-05-2007, 06:42 PM

True.

But a major motivational factor for a lot of the elite college athletes--the motivation that keeps them shooting baskets long after practice is over, working out in the weight room all summer, running sprints and ladders till midnight--is the lure of big money after college.

then they're playing the game for the wrong reasons...and don't deserve a shot at the NBA.

WSUbballer

05-05-2007, 06:57 PM

then they're playing the game for the wrong reasons...and don't deserve a shot at the NBA.

Wait.. according to that philosophy, the entire professional sports world is flawed and "playing for the wrong reasons."

I must assume then that you use your time as an "architect" to voluntarily share your knowledge of your field without any compensation at all. Can I call you Jesus?

rjl

05-06-2007, 01:13 AM

Aargh

05-06-2007, 02:14 AM

I'm confident Dawgie's architectural skills are far superior to his posting on VT skills.

If that weren't true, Dawgie would be trying to squeegee the windsdhield of the car at the stop light in Carbondale.

I shouldn't take pot shots at Carbondale based off of one SIU grad, but that analogy seemed to be a good comparison when looking at Dawgie's posts here for the last year or so.

Saluki4life

05-06-2007, 02:50 AM

I'm confident Dawgie's architectural skills are far superior to his posting on VT skills.

Same team, but dont often agree with DS, but I am sure everyone says what they truely think on here. Noone would ever be a homer and/or post outrageous things. Yes, college athletes should be focused on their current situation, but the professional level is the next step so it is natural to attempt that. Players, coaches, all professionals look for the next step up. I just started the thread cause didnt remember anything being mentioned besides the rumors of the entire WSU and half the cheerleaders transfering, graduate and ect.
But seriously, from what I remember, I would be surpised if he get picked up as a free agent after the 08 draft. He should make a shot at the development league and worse case could easily go overseas if want to pursue basketball still then.

On a side note, nearly posted earlier about hope he doesnt learn too much if he goes to NBA camps after watching the defense played by Golden State and Dallas. Watching the highlights from the Bulls-Pistons series at least made it a little more reassuring that the NBA didnt ban defense all together.

DawgieStyle

05-06-2007, 12:52 PM

Wait.. according to that philosophy, the entire professional sports world is flawed and "playing for the wrong reasons."

I must assume then that you use your time as an "architect" to voluntarily share your knowledge of your field without any compensation at all. Can I call you Jesus?

Its not that they shouldn't get paid, its that the main driving force behind why they play should be for the love of the game first. Pay them, thats fine, but pay them because their accomplishments and performances on the court are a reflection of how much they love the game it self, not because there is a pay check behind it.

Yes, I get paid to work in the world of architecture, but I pursued the field initially because I love design. and today, I would not remain in the field, if I didn't love design, no matter what I get paid. If you don't like what you do, no amount of money is going to fix that. You might be rich, but are you happy?

WSUbballer

05-06-2007, 03:26 PM

Its not that they shouldn't get paid, its that the main driving force behind why they play should be for the love of the game first. Pay them, thats fine, but pay them because their accomplishments and performances on the court are a reflection of how much they love the game it self, not because there is a pay check behind it.

Yes, I get paid to work in the world of architecture, but I pursued the field initially because I love design. and today, I would not remain in the field, if I didn't love design, no matter what I get paid. If you don't like what you do, no amount of money is going to fix that. You might be rich, but are you happy?

I and surely you know the driving force behind every human being walking the earth. I'm not even gonna say it. Just because these athletes are in better positions to be in higher tax brackets than you, doesn't mean you have to knock 'em.

Straight up question: If I were to offer you $5 milliion dollars, pretty much financial stability for the rest of your life, or a dream architectal project with little or no pay, which would you choose?

Don't pull a Jesus on me Dawgie.

DawgieStyle

05-06-2007, 04:53 PM

WSUbballer

05-06-2007, 05:46 PM

depends what I had to do to earn the 5 million dollars.
be a full-time poster on ValleyTalk.

MSNSaluki

05-06-2007, 10:54 PM

be a full-time poster on ValleyTalk.

Don't do that to the rest of us!:lol:

DawgieStyle

05-06-2007, 11:00 PM

I and surely you know the driving force behind every human being walking the earth. I'm not even gonna say it. Just because these athletes are in better positions to be in higher tax brackets than you, doesn't mean you have to knock 'em.

Straight up question: If I were to offer you $5 milliion dollars, pretty much financial stability for the rest of your life, or a dream architectal project with little or no pay, which would you choose?

Don't pull a Jesus on me Dawgie.

actually I've already made this decision, when I decided to go to school, intern, and be employed by an architecture firm. I made my choice, and am I happy I did. there are hundreds of other jobs that pay better, have better perks, etc. than what I currently do now, and I wouldn't trade for them.

I had the grades and the work ethic to be a lawyer, a doctor, computer programmer, etc. and the evidence is in the success I have now in architecture. all of which are far better paying than what I currently do, and would have made me more financially stable. So why didn't I do that? They didn't make me happy, they didn't inspire me, they didn't allow for creation and design.

Does that make me a saint? or pulling a "jesus" as you so bluntly put. No. It makes me a person who is doing what he enjoys and what he wants to do. That's it. If I get paid well to do that, so be it.

It's the same question teacher's get all the time. Why do they teach if the pay is so bad? Because its inspiring, what they want or were meant to do, regardless of what they get paid.

Obviously you don't understand this, or you do, and think its wrong. There are more important things in life than money. I'm not saying being financially secure is a bad thing. But how much money do you really need, to be secure? I need just enough to buy a house, feed my family, have a little fun, and have a nice retirement. Everything else is excess. If I have a job that makes me happy and allows me do the the above, that's a pretty good life to me.

rjl

05-07-2007, 07:37 PM

Back on topic:

http://www.sportingnews.com/yourturn/viewtopic.php?t=203268

Couisnard's already is fairly well known to basketball fans because his team reached the NCAA Tournament Sweet 16 two years ago. He averaged 11.8 points and 5.8 rebounds this season. But this is a chance to step beyond the identity he established as one of Wichita's good players to show exactly what his game is about.

When he returns to the Shockers next season to play for new coach Gregg Marshall, which almost certainly is what will happen, Couisnard will be a little better player, a little better traveled and a little better known. Not a lot wrong with that.

Man. Where have I heard that before?