Let's compare teams

[Aargh]

WSU:

Post - Thomasson, Durley, Orupke

Thomasson started last year great, but became "give me a head fake and I'll take a seat in the 3rd row". Durley is a big body RS Fr who has some skills, but hasn't played a D-1 game yet. Orupke will probably be a second-semester player. Made a 10-player "All-Africa" team selected by NBA coaches and players. Orupke looks to add some stuffing to WSU's offense.

PF - Clemente, Durley, Butler

Clemente looks like a Coleman clone. Probably a year behind Coleman in development, but will play with Coleman's style, motivation and enthusiasm. Butler can jump out of the gym, but has few offensive weapons other than stuffs and offensive rebound putbacks.

SF - Griskenas, Ellis, Couisnard

Griskenas is JuCo 1st team AA. So far Griskenas in the most underrated and under-hyped recruit in the Valley. Quick, athletic, strong finisher at the hoop and a 40%+ 3-shooter. Could be about the equivalent of Kyle Wilson plying SF.

SG - Couisnard, Mekel

Cooz only shot 49.8% overall and 34.9% from 3 last year. He also played almost half the season with a dislocated thumb that required a cast on his shooting hand. Since his move to SG, Cooz has been working on his jump shot.

PG - Braeuer, Mekel, Preadom

Braeuer's speed, consistency and ball control are well-known.

Early last year, Mekel was a highlight reel candidate every time he touched the ball. It was either an ESPN moment or a TO.

Mekel has some moves, some ball-handling and some passing that the MVC hasn't seen. He needs to get the TO's under control. If he does that, the MVC will see one of the slickest ball-handlers in MVC history.

Starters:

C - Thomasson- 6'7"
PF - Cllemente - 6'6"
SF - Griskenas - 6'7"
SG - Couisnard - 6'4"
PG - Braeuer - 5'11"

Key reserves:

Orupke - 7'
Ellis - 6'8"
Durley - 6'7"
Mekel - 6'3"
Preadom - 6'1"

I think WSU will be a challenger for top 3 in the Valley.

[SycamoreFanatic]

I assume you want confirmation or negative feedback ?

Optimism reigns supreme in the wheat fields............but as a long-time MVC follower and fan of the Sycamores, who have been at the top & the bottom of the league but rarely in between, me thinks u r way off base in regards to the Shockers prognosis for the 07-08 season. I see a top-5 finish for WSU being a struggle this year!

:no:
:valley::sycamores:

[outpost]

Starters:

C - Thomasson- 6'7"
PF - Cllemente - 6'6"
SF - Griskenas - 6'7"
SG - Couisnard - 6'4"
PG - Braeuer - 5'11"

Key reserves:

Orupke - 7'
Ellis - 6'8"
Durley - 6'7"
Mekel - 6'3"
Preadom - 6'1"

I think WSU will be a challenger for top 3 in the Valley.

Not enough proven talent in the mix here, Aargh. Orupke isn't here yet, so I'm personally not counting on him this year.

Thomasson has to prove to me that he'll play like he did (first ½ of last year) for an entire season.

Griskenas and Clemente are unproven as D1 players. So is Graham Hatch, whom you failed to mention. I am optimistic, however, that Hatch will add some maturity as a 20/21-year old freshman.

I'm tempering my expectations for this team, but I think Coach Marshall could potentially inspire this group of young men enough to challenge for a top-3 finish. My realistic outlook is for somewhere in the middle (4-6).

Not the purpose of this thread, but I thought that a couple of things needed clearing up, particularly the non-presence (at the moment) of Orupke.

Carry on.

[DannyCooksey]

WSU:

Post - Thomasson, Durley, Orupke

Thomasson started last year great, but became "give me a head fake and I'll take a seat in the 3rd row". Durley is a big body RS Fr who has some skills, but hasn't played a D-1 game yet. Orupke will probably be a second-semester player. Made a 10-player "All-Africa" team selected by NBA coaches and players. Orupke looks to add some stuffing to WSU's offense.

PF - Clemente, Durley, Butler

Clemente looks like a Coleman clone. Probably a year behind Coleman in development, but will play with Coleman's style, motivation and enthusiasm. Butler can jump out of the gym, but has few offensive weapons other than stuffs and offensive rebound putbacks.

SF - Griskenas, Ellis, Couisnard

Griskenas is JuCo 1st team AA. So far Griskenas in the most underrated and under-hyped recruit in the Valley. Quick, athletic, strong finisher at the hoop and a 40%+ 3-shooter. Could be about the equivalent of Kyle Wilson plying SF.

SG - Couisnard, Mekel

Cooz only shot 49.8% overall and 34.9% from 3 last year. He also played almost half the season with a dislocated thumb that required a cast on his shooting hand. Since his move to SG, Cooz has been working on his jump shot.

PG - Braeuer, Mekel, Preadom

Braeuer's speed, consistency and ball control are well-known.

Early last year, Mekel was a highlight reel candidate every time he touched the ball. It was either an ESPN moment or a TO.

Mekel has some moves, some ball-handling and some passing that the MVC hasn't seen. He needs to get the TO's under control. If he does that, the MVC will see one of the slickest ball-handlers in MVC history.

Starters:

C - Thomasson- 6'7"
PF - Cllemente - 6'6"
SF - Griskenas - 6'7"
SG - Couisnard - 6'4"
PG - Braeuer - 5'11"

Key reserves:

Orupke - 7'
Ellis - 6'8"
Durley - 6'7"
Mekel - 6'3"
Preadom - 6'1"

I think WSU will be a challenger for top 3 in the Valley.

For the same reason I am tempering enthusiasm for IlSU, I don't know if Top-3 is realistic to expect from the Shockers. No disrespect intended. The Shocker roster has what appears to be a good amount of talent.

However..............New Coach, new system, new players...........that is not an easy transition to make no matter how good a coaching staff is. I see the same things with IlSU. They also have a pretty talented roster, but it's a new coach, new system and many new players. That makes it really tough to crack the Top-3 of a very established league no matter how hard graduation has hit some of its teams.

:shockers::redbirds:

[goaces]

SIU and Bradley are the two teams I feel will lead the way for the MVC this season. How the rest of the league pans out will be a toss up....except for UE. Aces will finish in the cellar. :yes:

[Aegyptus]

SIU and Bradley are the two teams I feel will lead the way for the MVC this season. How the rest of the league pans out will be a toss up....except for UE. Aces will finish in the cellar. :yes:

I wouldn't be so positive the Aces are at the bottom. I could see good things from them in the second half of the season, not top half of the league stuff, but improvements. I really think Keno has the biggest challenge at Drake and being a new coach with little experience, I could see things going very poorly there for a couple years.

[Ricky Del Rio]

While I am not opposed to the Doggie bandwagon, I am surprised by the number of riders and the anoitment of SIU as the unquestioned champion.

The Doggies lost their best two players from a six player team. One was the heart and soul of the team and the league's best player.

The way I see it, all teams have problems and I am not sure there is an overwhelming favorite to win the conference championship.

[shockerfan13]

While I am not opposed to the Doggie bandwagon, I am surprised by the number of riders and the anoitment of SIU as the unquestioned champion.

The Doggies lost their best two players from a six player team. One was the heart and soul of the team and the league's best player.

The way I see it, all teams have problems and I am not sure there is an overwhelming favorite to win the conference championship.

Yes, but they do it almost every year right...so therefore it is written that they shall be the champs EVERY year until the coming of Christ. How DARE you try and use logic!! They have the best recruiting class EVERY year and will forever. Don't question what has already been written! :ermm:

[shockball]

I assume you want confirmation or negative feedback ?

Optimism reigns supreme in the wheat fields............but as a long-time MVC follower and fan of the Sycamores, who have been at the top & the bottom of the league but rarely in between, me thinks u r way off base in regards to the Shockers prognosis for the 07-08 season. I see a top-5 finish for WSU being a struggle this year!

:no:
:valley::sycamores:

I assume he was wanting rundowns on the other teams.

A .500 record for WSU is what I think is in store. There is so much to put together. They will improve as the year goes on.

[kevinmitchell]

I think way too many unknowns to predict the Shox in the top 3. As someone said, 4-6 looks more realistic.

Im not sure about the glowing praise of Mekel. A passer like we've never seen in the MVC? Slickest ball-handlers in MVC history?

All this from a guy who you dont even have starting? Let's not go overboard.

[txsaluki05]

Shockers have some talent, but it will be up to how well they play together and what Marshall can get out of them. I don't see a Top 3 finish, sorry; SIU, BU, MSU will all finish above them.

As for the "I don't know about SIU picked #1, they lost their two best players ... yadee yadee yadaa":

See the last six years people. We lost Kent Williams and Jermaine Dearman, and turned out just fine with Brooks and Hairston leading the way. When they left, it was Jamaal Tatums turn to be POY, and now it will be Randal Falker (who was a couple votes shy of POY last year) and Matt Shaw to lead the team.

Oh, and we also lost two head coaches, and made it through just fine.

[Maggie]

I would not go so far as to predict a top three finish for WSU either because the roster is largely untested at the D-1 level. However, I think the transition into a new system and a new coaching staff will be mitigated to a certain extent because most of the players are so new. Those players' situations have not changed.

As for Mekel, he could end up being the starter midway through the season. Turgeon kept him on a tight leash last year and I think Marshal will let the kid play.

While BU and SIU will be the pre-season favorites, I personally think the league is wide open.

[Carrcar]

Shockers have some talent, but it will be up to how well they play together and what Marshall can get out of them. I don't see a Top 3 finish, sorry; SIU, BU, MSU will all finish above them.

As for the "I don't know about SIU picked #1, they lost their two best players ... yadee yadee yadaa":

See the last six years people. We lost Kent Williams and Jermaine Dearman, and turned out just fine with Brooks and Hairston leading the way. When they left, it was Jamaal Tatums turn to be POY, and now it will be Randal Falker (who was a couple votes shy of POY last year) and Matt Shaw to lead the team.

Oh, and we also lost two head coaches, and made it through just fine.
tx,
What you don't realize is that WSU and tSIU are on different pages. WSU wants to build a good team, while tSIU builds a good program. Under MT they got their wish, they peaked and now it's Marshall's turn to rebuild. It's referred to as the Shocker 7 year plan.
Shockers are like women. There are 2 ways to debate with them....neither work.

[Mecha_Bulldog]

I wouldn't be so positive the Aces are at the bottom. I could see good things from them in the second half of the season, not top half of the league stuff, but improvements. I really think Keno has the biggest challenge at Drake and being a new coach with little experience, I could see things going very poorly there for a couple years.

Those inexperienced coaches always have trouble running a program, don't they? :grin:

[TNMSUFAN]

Shockers have some talent, but it will be up to how well they play together and what Marshall can get out of them. I don't see a Top 3 finish, sorry; SIU, BU, MSU will all finish above them.

As for the "I don't know about SIU picked #1, they lost their two best players ... yadee yadee yadaa":

See the last six years people. We lost Kent Williams and Jermaine Dearman, and turned out just fine with Brooks and Hairston leading the way. When they left, it was Jamaal Tatums turn to be POY, and now it will be Randal Falker (who was a couple votes shy of POY last year) and Matt Shaw to lead the team.

Oh, and we also lost two head coaches, and made it through just fine.

I agree that SIU should be the favorite but I think it will be interesting to see who steps up to take the big shots. Last year I saw several games where you guys would run the shot clock down to 7-8 seconds and then Tatum would create and score a lot of those times. Finding that guy will be the key but as I said SIU is the favorite IMO.

Concerning the Bears we should be pretty solid again even though some publications don't agree. We will have 4 senior starters who have been in the program for 3-4 years plus 3 year junior and two very good juco players added to the mix. We might not have the 3point shooting of our teams the last few years but we will be more athletic, better defensively, and a better rebounding team. I think we will finish in the top 4 of the league like we have the last few years with a few games deciding where in the top 4 that is.

Starters:

PG - Spencer Laurie 6'1" SR
Returning NOY will look to improve his shooting over last season and has looked very good this summer and early fall in pick up games. I expect his PPG to double this season and his 3pt and freethrow % to greatly increase.

SG - Chris Cooks 6'4" JR
I haven't been this excited about a juco player in a long time and Chris has come in ready to contribute from day 1. He is a stat sheet filler and probably the best all around player on the team. Needs to make a few threes and hit his freethrows but has a shot at NOY along with making one of the Valley teams.

SF - Dale Lamberth 6'5" SR
Probably the best offensive player on the team and I fully expect Dale to have a huge season. Last year he had several personal issues to deal with and it caused a drop in his offensive contributions. It wouldn't surprise me to see Dale lead us in scoring and 3pt % this season.

PF - Deven Mitchell 6'5" SR
Heart and soul of the team and right there with Cooks as the best all around player on the team. Led us in scoring around 10 times last year while coming off the bench and only playing around 20 minutes per game.

C - Drew Richards 6'9" SR
Drew has actually slimmed up a little this off season and seems ready to have a solid senior season. If Drew can just make 3 footers and stay out of foul trouble he would average 12pts 7rbs but those two things have been his problem. Hopefully those aren't problems this year because we need him to play at a high level.

Bench:
Shane Laurie 6'2" JR - Very steady player who makes plays and does what the coaches ask him to do. I expect Shane to look to score much more this season and feel he will greatly improve his averages.

Wade Knapp 6'9" JR
Very solid juco who will greatly improve our depth at the 5 over last season. Runs the floor extremely well and has great shooting touch out to 15 feet. Much more skilled offensively than Drew but we will need rebounding and some defense from him.

Lamont Austin 5'11" FR
By far the best on the ball defender on the team and very under controlled PG especially for a frosh.

Kyle Weems 6'6" FR
Think young Deven Mitchell with a great 3 point shot. Weems is a stat sheet filler who just makes plays and will be a star down the road.

Ryan Jehle 6'6" FR
Very steady player with a nice stroke out to the 3pt line and has nice low post moves. Not sure there are enough minutes but he can help if needed.

[DannyCooksey]

BU is another team that many people are in love with pre-season. I think they have many questions also.

NO this is not an IlSU fan giving an anti-BU post.

They have a good coach (who has lost his right hand man in Buescher and nobody, including the most ardent BU fans, knows how this will effect the team. Some BU fans believe his impact was overrated and blown out of proportion. I guess we will see.) and a talented roster for sure. They have 2 very good returning players in Ruffin and Crouch and a decent player in Salley. The rest of the returnees are question marks.

They are another team that is counting on instant impact from several JUCO's and at least 1-2 of their highly touted freshmen. There are about 5-6 new players that will be counted on for major contributions and that is not an easy thing to do.

They are talented for sure, but you never know how these guys will mesh and play as a unit. They could win it or they could struggle and finish in the middle of the pack.

There are not many 'sure-things' in the Valley this season. This will be as unpredictable as any Valley season in years.

This is why I think SIU has to be the favorite. They return 3 of the best at their position in the league and they have a Coach with an impeccable record and a system that causes the most trouble in the league. SIU is the toughest team to play in the league. They are the champs until someone knocks them off and I'm not sure there is a team that can do it.

[DannyCooksey]

BU is another team that many people are in love with pre-season. I think they have many questions also.

NO this is not an IlSU fan giving an anti-BU post.

They have a good coach (who has lost his right hand man in Buescher and nobody, including the most ardent BU fans, knows how this will effect the team. Some BU fans believe his impact was overrated and blown out of proportion. I guess we will see.) and a talented roster for sure. They have 2 very good returning players in Ruffin and Crouch and a decent player in Salley. The rest of the returnees are question marks.

They are another team that is counting on instant impact from several JUCO's and at least 1-2 of their highly touted freshmen. There are about 5-6 new players that will be counted on for major contributions and that is not an easy thing to do.

They are talented for sure, but you never know how these guys will mesh and play as a unit. They could win it or they could struggle and finish in the middle of the pack.

There are not many 'sure-things' in the Valley this season. This will be as unpredictable as any Valley season in years.

This is why I think SIU has to be the favorite. They return 3 of the best at their position in the league and they have a Coach with an impeccable record and a system that causes the most trouble in the league. SIU is the toughest team to play in the league. They are the champs until someone knocks them off and I'm not sure there is a team that can do it.

:braves::salukis::valley:

oops sorry for the double post

[SycamoreFanatic]

Whew.......this is scary! I absolutely agree with Ricky Del Rio..........

:sycamores::lol::bounceblue:

[kevinmitchell]

BU is another team that many people are in love with pre-season. I think they have many questions also.

NO this is not an IlSU fan giving an anti-BU post.

They have a good coach (who has lost his right hand man in Buescher and nobody, including the most ardent BU fans, knows how this will effect the team. Some BU fans believe his impact was overrated and blown out of proportion. I guess we will see.) and a talented roster for sure. They have 2 very good returning players in Ruffin and Crouch and a decent player in Salley. The rest of the returnees are question marks.

They are another team that is counting on instant impact from several JUCO's and at least 1-2 of their highly touted freshmen. There are about 5-6 new players that will be counted on for major contributions and that is not an easy thing to do.

They are talented for sure, but you never know how these guys will mesh and play as a unit. They could win it or they could struggle and finish in the middle of the pack.

There are not many 'sure-things' in the Valley this season. This will be as unpredictable as any Valley season in years.

This is why I think SIU has to be the favorite. They return 3 of the best at their position in the league and they have a Coach with an impeccable record and a system that causes the most trouble in the league. SIU is the toughest team to play in the league. They are the champs until someone knocks them off and I'm not sure there is a team that can do it.


I agree with Danny. Until otherwise noted the Dawgs are the undisputed favorites. So many questions with the other teams.

This is a big year for Jim Les and BU. He is under .500 for his career in MVC games. He hasn't finished higher than 4th. Two really good guards and a ton of questions. I could see BU finishing anywhere from 2nd to 7th.

I liked it better when Chuck B. was there.

[tgcshock]

I agree that SIU should be the favorite but I think it will be interesting to see who steps up to take the big shots. Last year I saw several games where you guys would run the shot clock down to 7-8 seconds and then Tatum would create and score a lot of those times. Finding that guy will be the key but as I said SIU is the favorite IMO.

Concerning the Bears we should be pretty solid again even though some publications don't agree. We will have 4 senior starters who have been in the program for 3-4 years plus 3 year junior and two very good juco players added to the mix. We might not have the 3point shooting of our teams the last few years but we will be more athletic, better defensively, and a better rebounding team. I think we will finish in the top 4 of the league like we have the last few years with a few games deciding where in the top 4 that is.

Starters:

PG - Spencer Laurie 6'1" SR
Returning NOY will look to improve his shooting over last season and has looked very good this summer and early fall in pick up games. I expect his PPG to double this season and his 3pt and freethrow % to greatly increase.

SG - Chris Cooks 6'4" JR
I haven't been this excited about a juco player in a long time and Chris has come in ready to contribute from day 1. He is a stat sheet filler and probably the best all around player on the team. Needs to make a few threes and hit his freethrows but has a shot at NOY along with making one of the Valley teams.

SF - Dale Lamberth 6'5" SR
Probably the best offensive player on the team and I fully expect Dale to have a huge season. Last year he had several personal issues to deal with and it caused a drop in his offensive contributions. It wouldn't surprise me to see Dale lead us in scoring and 3pt % this season.

PF - Deven Mitchell 6'5" SR
Heart and soul of the team and right there with Cooks as the best all around player on the team. Led us in scoring around 10 times last year while coming off the bench and only playing around 20 minutes per game.

C - Drew Richards 6'9" SR
Drew has actually slimmed up a little this off season and seems ready to have a solid senior season. If Drew can just make 3 footers and stay out of foul trouble he would average 12pts 7rbs but those two things have been his problem. Hopefully those aren't problems this year because we need him to play at a high level.

Bench:
Shane Laurie 6'2" JR - Very steady player who makes plays and does what the coaches ask him to do. I expect Shane to look to score much more this season and feel he will greatly improve his averages.

Wade Knapp 6'9" JR
Very solid juco who will greatly improve our depth at the 5 over last season. Runs the floor extremely well and has great shooting touch out to 15 feet. Much more skilled offensively than Drew but we will need rebounding and some defense from him.

Lamont Austin 5'11" FR
By far the best on the ball defender on the team and very under controlled PG especially for a frosh.

Kyle Weems 6'6" FR
Think young Deven Mitchell with a great 3 point shot. Weems is a stat sheet filler who just makes plays and will be a star down the road.

Ryan Jehle 6'6" FR
Very steady player with a nice stroke out to the 3pt line and has nice low post moves. Not sure there are enough minutes but he can help if needed.

I think this is exactly the kind of thing the original poster was looking for. Very helpful.

I have a question about Mitchell. I know that a lot of very successful "sixth man" high energy types struggle when they are called to carry the load on a night in and night out basis. Watching Mitchell (who has played very well against WSU), I've wondered how he will respond to the new situation. Any reasons for concern here, or am I just a WSU fan hoping that he won't kill us again?

[DawgFan]

I've got a lot of questions about the Salukis. Will Josh Bone or Wesley Clemmons step up? Can Brandon Woods play as a freshman? Who can handle the ball when Mullins isn't running the show?

An influx of guard depth is coming, but it is a year away. At best SIU has five guards on the roster. And only one is a proven ballhandler.

[kevinmitchell]

I think this is exactly the kind of thing the original poster was looking for. Very helpful.

I have a question about Mitchell. I know that a lot of very successful "sixth man" high energy types struggle when they are called to carry the load on a night in and night out basis. Watching Mitchell (who has played very well against WSU), I've wondered how he will respond to the new situation. Any reasons for concern here, or am I just a WSU fan hoping that he won't kill us again?

Good question on Mitchell. Once guys become the focal point of the defensive efforts things change for that player. Its tough to adjust sometimes.

[DannyCooksey]

IlSU is the same as many teams this year: New coach, new system, dependant in part on impact from a few new players. Some talented guys return.

The biggest X-factor is Coach Jankovich. No one really knows what to expect from him and his system. the only thing we know is he wants an up tempo attack at both ends with interchangable players. That's all we know. Does he have that on this year's roster. Nobody knows.

I will list the expected contributors, but there is no way to determine starters or bench players.

Returnees:

Levi Dyer 6'11 SR F.......Excellent 3 point shooter. One of the better returning scorers in conference. Tough matchup. slow feet.

Osiris Eldridge 6'3 SO WG..........superstar capabilities. Might benefit most from up-tempo style. FOY. needs to add drive game to his surprising 3 point shooting. Could be a Valley scoring leader this season.

Dom Johnson 6'0 SR combo guard......versatile, decent scorer, solid perimeter defender. streaky shooter

Boo Richardson 5'8 SR PG......Ultra quick playmaker, tough minded and tough for his size physically. good leader, poor shooter, struggles against bigger guards, another who could thrive in new system

Anthony Slack 6'7 SR F......great athlete. very quick and wiry strong. very good defender, shot blocker and rebounder. emotional player that goes all out. will be a major part of this team's success or failure.

Mike Vandello 6'7 JR F........disappointing soph campaign after promising frosh season. decent inside outside player. not sure what role he will play.

Brandon Holtz 6'3 JR WG.......good shooter. limited athletically so he struggles to get open and guard people. Didn't seem to have a role with Moser. He can shoot so he could be a specialist.

Dinma Odiakosa 6'8 SO F-C.......coming off a redshirt year. Physically imposing at a chiseled 245 pounds. Worked extremely hard last season. Could be a factor defensively and on the glass.

Newcommers:

Emmanuel Holloway 6'2 JR Combo Guard........will play a lot. Jank likes his size at PG and his shooting 40% on 3's from JUCO. supposed to be very good defensively

Sead Odzic 6'3 SO WG........transfer from USC will be eligible after 1st semester final exams. Billed as a lights out shooter coming out of HS. Had some good games as a frosh at USC. Won their post season team 6th man award. May play alot if he shoots as well as his reputation.

Brandon Sampay 6'8 JR F-C...........260 pound wide body who is expected to make a big impact. low post scoring, rebounding and a soft touch out to 15 feet. 70% of FT's. Off the court issues (DUI over summer) could jeapordize his future. Jank has yet to announce the discipline much to the dismay of many opposing fans.

Alex Rubin 6'1 FR PG........led his team to 2nd place finish in Minnesota State finals. Good all around prospect. smart player. Brooks McKowen has been a comparison. Could be a red-shirt candidate.

There are a couple walk-ons that will make an impact in practice, but not so much in games.

The biggest newcommer is Coach Jankovich and his coaching staff. No one really knows what they may see at the 1st game.

[Aargh]

Thanks for the team updates. At this time of the year a lot of names of Valley players and how they contribute to their teams can get a little fuzzy for fans of other schools.

Maybe I'm overly optimistic, but I said WSU will be a challenger for a top-3 finish. I didn't say WSU would achieve a top-3 finish.

There are probably 5 or 6 teams with the potential to challenge for a top-3 finish.

[TNMSUFAN]

Deven has only been limited by his knee problems or he probably would have started every game last year. He will probably be limited to 20-25 minutes per game again this year and will continue to practice hard every other day. I expect his production to be around the same as last year maybe a little more in each category depending on the minutes...Deven is the one guy I am not worried about at all. He is a gamer and will be there night in and night out.

IMO how good or bad our season will be depends on Spencer and Dale shooting the ball well...if they make shots consistently we will be pretty good. Cooks is a playmaker and is the type of guy who makes everyone around him better. He wasn't heavily recruited but I promise he is the best juco player we have had in a LONG time. When I first watched him play I was honestly shocked how good he was. He is a leader and there is no doubt in my mind who will have the ball in their hands at crunch time. We have had some problems the past few years about having a "go to guy" but I don't see that as a problem this season. The Valley will obviously be different than pick up games with the guys but Cooks is a player and one of my reasons for optimism this season.

[Mecha_Bulldog]

Here's a rundown on Drake

Bucky Cox, 6-8, Jr, F
The former walk-on will step into a much bigger role this year. He's a face to the basket type player with a good outside shot. He's not very physical, and I wonder how well he'll hold up in the MVC season.

Ryan Daniels, 6-1, So, G
He's a high energy JUCO transfer. He has great speed, plays good defense, and can play the point, though he may be limited offensively.

Adam Emmenecker, 6-1, Sr, PG
He's the only returning true point guard. He underwent major shoulder surgery in the offseason, so his play may depend on how well he recovers from that. He started practicing in time to travel with the team to the Bahamas in August, and played well against some poor teams.

John Michael Hall, 6-5, Jr, G
He's a super athletic JUCO transfer. He knows how to get to the basket, and can finish when he gets there. His outside shot isn't bad either.

Brent Heemskerk, 6-8, Jr, F
He redshirted last year with a back injury, and much depends on how he's healed. If healthy, he'll provide size and muscle in the post and a good outside shot. He seemed to play well in the Bahamas this summer.

Leonard Houston, 6-3, Sr, G
He spent most of his Drake career as a major talent who couldn't put it together and get off the bench. Over the last month of last year, he finally played his way into a key role off the bench. If he continues with that progress, he'll be a major contributor this year. He can shoot, drive, and leap out of the gym. He could emerge as one of the MVC's top defenders.

Klayton Korver, 6-6, Sr, F
He's coming off offseason surgery, again, and his season will depend on how his knee holds up, again. I don't think he's fully tested his knee yet, and hasn't played in an organized game since the MVC tourney. He traveled with the team to the Bahamas, but didn't play. If he's healthy this year, he could play at an all-MVC level. If his knee still bothers him, he may have to settle for being a sparkplug off the bench again.

Josh Parker, 6-0, Fr, PG
He's Drake's point guard of the future, but still just a freshman right now. He plays with a lot of energy, and showed great poise and leadership in the summer league. I expect him to start at least a few games this year. If he catches on to the college game quick enough, he'll be the starting point guard by the end of the year and should challenge for FOY honors.

Alex White, 6-6, Jr, F
This JUCO transfer is built like a linebacker, and could be the physical presence Drake's lacked for the past few years. He's undersized, but plays tough defense in the post, and is quick enough to defend on the perimeter too. He may not bring much offense, but he has a nose for the basket in the paint and showed a good outside shot in shootarounds.

Josh Young, 6-1, So, G
Last year's runner-up FOY will need to step up to a huge role this year. He may be the only definite starter at this point. He's best suited to play 2 guard, but may have to play point guard if Parker and Emmenecker aren't up to task. In the summer league, he was the league MVP as his team went undefeated en route to the championship. In the Bahamas, he provided most of the scoring along with Houston.

My best guess at the depth chart:
1- Emmenecker, Parker
2- Young, Daniels
3- Houston, Hall
4- Korver, White
5- Cox, Heemskerk

[genius4point0]

I have a question about Mitchell. I know that a lot of very successful "sixth man" high energy types struggle when they are called to carry the load on a night in and night out basis. Watching Mitchell (who has played very well against WSU), I've wondered how he will respond to the new situation. Any reasons for concern here, or am I just a WSU fan hoping that he won't kill us again?

If you watched MSU in STL last year, you should have seen he was the man trying to carry the load. Last year he was the most consistent player on the team, and was the leader of the team. The only real question about him will be his knees. If they hold up, he won't have any trouble continuing to be the man this team looks for. Also, Cooks will be looking to take on the leadership role as well. During the summer he was easily the leader on his team, and wanted that role.

[Khan4Cats]

Alex Rubin 6'1 FR PG........led his team to 2nd place finish in Minnesota State finals. Good all around prospect. smart player. Brooks McKowen has been a comparison. Could be a red-shirt candidate.


Watch out, there are some UNI fans that would seem convinced you are doomed to mediocrity with a McKowen-type player.:fear::fear::doh:

Me, I'd love to have Brooks' on court savvy back for another season.

[DannyCooksey]

Watch out, there are some UNI fans that would seem convinced you are doomed to mediocrity with a McKowen-type player.:fear::fear::doh:

Me, I'd love to have Brooks' on court savvy back for another season.

Hey bud

I thought Brooks was a heady player also. He played a smart PG and played very hard. I respected him. I can hope for Rubin to be better, but if he has a career like McKowen's, I wouldn't be upset.

[Khan4Cats]

Guess I'll add UNI's roster to this mix:

Returning Starters:

Eric Coleman 6'6" C Sr: Should be pre-season All-Valley. Emotional leader can take over stretches of games. Does not have a lot of range, but can put the ball on the floor and take it inside with power. Would love if he shot over 60% FT's this year.

Jared Josten 5'11" G Sr: Defensive spark-plug even if undersized. Will be asked to play some PG this year. High percentage 3-pt shooter who can also catch and shoot with a quick release.

Kwadzo Ahelegbe 6'2" G So: Worked into starting line-up at end of year last year, will take over as the starting PG. Flashes of ability in different phases, needs to show consistency especially with ball-handling and distribution. Tough defender.

Travis Brown 6'3" G Jr: List him here because he started most games last year before coming off the bench at the end of the year. Will likely stay in the reserve role this year. Streaky scorer, but can put up points in a hurry. Good rebounder, especially on offensive boards, needs to improve defense.

New Starters:

Carlton Reed 6'4" G Jr: Iowa transfer will likely start at the SF/SG. Broke foot in Thailand but should be fine by season's start. Will give the Panthers a threat to take the ball at the rim from the perimeter. Outside shot is smooth but untested.

Adam Koch 6'8" F So: Played a big role as a Fr off the bench and should replace Grant Stout in the line-up. Big man with good ball-handling skills and can drive. Never developed confidence in his outside shot last year, but expect that to improve (it can't get worse). Developed confidence as year went on, may not block as many shots as Stout, but is quicker defensively.

Key Returning Reserves:

Jordan Eglseder 7'1" C So: Big man lost weight and added muscle in the off-season. Is much quicker than last year. An offensive force inside that is a mismatch with most of the Valley inside and can step out and hit the 3. Not strong on perimeter defense for the number of big guys in the league that can step out. Impact will depend on how Coach Jake decides to use/not use him. UNI fans want to use him to create an offensive mis-match, Coaches sometimes hesitate to use him because of the defensive side.

Adam Viet 6'3" G Sr: Designated zone-buster/3-pt specialist. Is limited defensively and not overly mobile on offense. But he can shoot and that will get him some time. Younger talent will likely cut into most of his time.

New Reserves:

Kerwin Dunham 6'6" G/F Fr: Red-shirted last year to add muscle. Gives the Panthers a unique look in size as a G. Compared to Ben Jacobson (the player) with his scoring ability. May be used anywhere from the 2 to 4 spots on the floor.

Lucas O'Rear 6'6" F Fr: True Fr but good size (240lbs) and can go inside or out. Provides another wide-body for depth.

Brian Haak 6'1" So G: Walk-on may be asked to handle some PG duties. Could be another Josten as a walk-on, could never see the floor.

Josh Molstead 5'8" Fr G: Red-shirted walk-on, quick and is a good shot from outside. May figure into the PG picture, may not.

New Freshman/Likely Redshirts:

Brent Barz 6'10" F Fr: Will likely RS to add muscle unless injuries deplete the post depth.

Drew Lundberg 6'2" G Fr: Possible to figure into PG picture, though a likely RS.

Jonathon Montgomery 6'4" G Fr: Of the 3, most likely to work into line-up with a college body already on his frame. May be RS because of depth at G spots.


I don't know what to expect of this team. Did very well for themselves at the World Games with only loss to Gold Medalist, but that also had McKowen running the court. Talent level is above anything we have had at UNI overall, how it gels and who runs the point in McKowen's absence are the biggest questions. Answer those and the Panthers could challenge to return to the NCAA's.

[dakyne]

I happen to think MSU and IlSU are sleepers. MSU due to their experienced returnees, and IlSU due to their talent on the perimeter. IlSU will have a bigger mountain to climb with the players adjusting to their new coach and vica versa, but I see them being dangerous in the tourney and able to knock off some good teams if they get hot. I don't see them winning it, as they would have to stay hot over 3 games, but they will be improved over the course of the season.

I just think most fans and writers are underestimating what MSU has returning. Most are battle-tested, and they return much of their experienced players. It's a cliche, but they know what it takes to win in the MVC on a nightly basis, even if they haven't always executed.

As for SIU, I see them struggling without JT and TY, much like their junior years when there was a leadership void, and more importantly, lack of a true go-to player on the perimeter, after the loss of Brooks and Hairston. They were awful in the beginning of the season, but gradually improved as the season progressed, portending a great senior year last season.

The difference this season and two seasons ago, however, is significant--they have two studs down low in Falker and Shaw. Mullins needs to get better at creating for himself, as that makes him even more dangerous in creating for others. A big key will be whether the wings step up and can knock down shots. Bone has more offensive potential, while Green is focused on defense, while Clemmons brings a little bit of both. They should do better than two seasons ago, but they will struggle to best last year's run. You need great guards to win in the MVC.

[shockball]

MechaBulldog is sandbagging that Drake lineup. Bucky Cox is now 6'11." 39' vertical.

[bcg]

I liked it better when Chuck B. was there.

Where did he go? Did he pack up and move to Florida for retirement or is he at the gym more than ever?

[Mecha_Bulldog]

MechaBulldog is sandbagging that Drake lineup. Bucky Cox is now 6'11." 39' vertical.

I went with Drake's official numbers and those haven't been updated since last year. He was 6-8 at the start of last season. He was 6-11 by the end of the year. He's at least 7-2 now :lol:

[LincolnJay]

Interesting that UNI loses Stout and McKowen yet still has four returning starters. :confused1:

[WSUfan]

I went with Drake's official numbers and those haven't been updated since last year. He was 6-8 at the start of last season. He was 6-11 by the end of the year. He's at least 7-2 now :lol:

I think he will be 7'6" by next March and will shoot threes better than ISU's Levi Dyer. :lol:

[BeeLine]

I pretty much agree with TN's Bears analysis. While we lost a trio of starters with 4 years experience, the reality is the Bears have been playing 10 players extensively for a couple years. We have great experience returning augmented by a little better size and more athleticism than recently.
The leadership on this team is better established and I think this team will exhibit a bit more grit and physical play than recent Bears teams.
Many are concerned about the loss of perimeter scoring in Ahearn and Chaney, but this team has more versatility offensively in a trio of 6'4"/6'5" types who can all score , a better inside game with the addition of Knapp to Richards in the post, and the perimeter is better than most expect if the Lauries add some consistency to aid Dale Lamberth who led the Valley in 3 pt% as a soph.
A wild card as TN indicated is Weems, a 6'6" frosh who can score in bundles and various ways ; combines explosive play around the rim with a quick release from the trey line. He might RS, but if not will bring some added firepower off the bench.
This team again is 9-10 deep , with experience, fair size, and some perimiter quickness with Austin, Cooks, Weems additions. Hard seeing them doing anything much less than what we've been the last few seasons.

[salukibob]

I've got a lot of questions about the Salukis. Will Josh Bone or Wesley Clemmons step up? Can Brandon Woods play as a freshman? Who can handle the ball when Mullins isn't running the show?

An influx of guard depth is coming, but it is a year away. At best SIU has five guards on the roster. And only one is a proven ballhandler.

I totally agree. The Achlilles heel with our team this year will seemingly be ballhandling and ability to hit/miss the outside shots. Clemmons, Bone and company will really need to bring it for us to have success.

[kyyle23]

You know what the Abyss really is?

It is where these threads go to die shortly after they are created. Any thread asking for an honest comparison or opinion quickly dissembles into a pissing match anymore, usually before the second page.

i will always read here and i love to look at everyones differing opinions, but the schoolyard mentality for everyone is just astounding.

This place really used to be a lot of fun.

[MSNSaluki]

This is the lowdown on SIU ... we are in trouble.

We have no inside game. We have nobody to run our offense. We can not defend anyone. Our coach has only been on the job three years and is still learning. And, things do not look any better in the future because we can not convince anybody of note to come to Carbondale to play.

It is going to be a long winter at SIU.:innocent:

[shaunguth]

I happen to think MSU and IlSU are sleepers. MSU due to their experienced returnees, and IlSU due to their talent on the perimeter. IlSU will have a bigger mountain to climb with the players adjusting to their new coach and vica versa, but I see them being dangerous in the tourney and able to knock off some good teams if they get hot. I don't see them winning it, as they would have to stay hot over 3 games, but they will be improved over the course of the season.

I just think most fans and writers are underestimating what MSU has returning. Most are battle-tested, and they return much of their experienced players. It's a cliche, but they know what it takes to win in the MVC on a nightly basis, even if they haven't always executed.

As for SIU, I see them struggling without JT and TY, much like their junior years when there was a leadership void, and more importantly, lack of a true go-to player on the perimeter, after the loss of Brooks and Hairston. They were awful in the beginning of the season, but gradually improved as the season progressed, portending a great senior year last season.

The difference this season and two seasons ago, however, is significant--they have two studs down low in Falker and Shaw. Mullins needs to get better at creating for himself, as that makes him even more dangerous in creating for others. A big key will be whether the wings step up and can knock down shots. Bone has more offensive potential, while Green is focused on defense, while Clemmons brings a little bit of both. They should do better than two seasons ago, but they will struggle to best last year's run. You need great guards to win in the MVC.
Exactly....and since the MVC's top two returning scorers are guards that happen to play on the same team, that team should be a favorite to finish at/near the top! :yes:

[genius4point0]

Guess I'll add UNI's roster to this mix:

Returning Starters:

Eric Coleman 6'6" C Sr: Should be pre-season All-Valley. Emotional leader can take over stretches of games. Does not have a lot of range, but can put the ball on the floor and take it inside with power. Would love if he shot over 60% FT's this year.

Jared Josten 5'11" G Sr: Defensive spark-plug even if undersized. Will be asked to play some PG this year. High percentage 3-pt shooter who can also catch and shoot with a quick release.

Kwadzo Ahelegbe 6'2" G So: Worked into starting line-up at end of year last year, will take over as the starting PG. Flashes of ability in different phases, needs to show consistency especially with ball-handling and distribution. Tough defender.

Travis Brown 6'3" G Jr: List him here because he started most games last year before coming off the bench at the end of the year. Will likely stay in the reserve role this year. Streaky scorer, but can put up points in a hurry. Good rebounder, especially on offensive boards, needs to improve defense.

New Starters:

Carlton Reed 6'4" G Jr: Iowa transfer will likely start at the SF/SG. Broke foot in Thailand but should be fine by season's start. Will give the Panthers a threat to take the ball at the rim from the perimeter. Outside shot is smooth but untested.

Adam Koch 6'8" F So: Played a big role as a Fr off the bench and should replace Grant Stout in the line-up. Big man with good ball-handling skills and can drive. Never developed confidence in his outside shot last year, but expect that to improve (it can't get worse). Developed confidence as year went on, may not block as many shots as Stout, but is quicker defensively.

Key Returning Reserves:

Jordan Eglseder 7'1" C So: Big man lost weight and added muscle in the off-season. Is much quicker than last year. An offensive force inside that is a mismatch with most of the Valley inside and can step out and hit the 3. Not strong on perimeter defense for the number of big guys in the league that can step out. Impact will depend on how Coach Jake decides to use/not use him. UNI fans want to use him to create an offensive mis-match, Coaches sometimes hesitate to use him because of the defensive side.

Adam Viet 6'3" G Sr: Designated zone-buster/3-pt specialist. Is limited defensively and not overly mobile on offense. But he can shoot and that will get him some time. Younger talent will likely cut into most of his time.

New Reserves:

Kerwin Dunham 6'6" G/F Fr: Red-shirted last year to add muscle. Gives the Panthers a unique look in size as a G. Compared to Ben Jacobson (the player) with his scoring ability. May be used anywhere from the 2 to 4 spots on the floor.

Lucas O'Rear 6'6" F Fr: True Fr but good size (240lbs) and can go inside or out. Provides another wide-body for depth.

Brian Haak 6'1" So G: Walk-on may be asked to handle some PG duties. Could be another Josten as a walk-on, could never see the floor.

Josh Molstead 5'8" Fr G: Red-shirted walk-on, quick and is a good shot from outside. May figure into the PG picture, may not.

New Freshman/Likely Redshirts:

Brent Barz 6'10" F Fr: Will likely RS to add muscle unless injuries deplete the post depth.

Drew Lundberg 6'2" G Fr: Possible to figure into PG picture, though a likely RS.

Jonathon Montgomery 6'4" G Fr: Of the 3, most likely to work into line-up with a college body already on his frame. May be RS because of depth at G spots.


I don't know what to expect of this team. Did very well for themselves at the World Games with only loss to Gold Medalist, but that also had McKowen running the court. Talent level is above anything we have had at UNI overall, how it gels and who runs the point in McKowen's absence are the biggest questions. Answer those and the Panthers could challenge to return to the NCAA's.

I am going to go out on a limb here and say if UNI gets to start all the guys listed they will win the Valley. It is tough to win when you are playing 5 vs. 6. How does UNI get to start 6 and everyone else only gets to start 5?

[NoPlaceLikeDome]

International rules...duh.

We can also use 7 foot, 26 year old Lithuianian men on our team.

It's the perks of playing overseas.

[genius4point0]

Exactly....and since the MVC's top two returning scorers are guards that happen to play on the same team, that team should be a favorite to finish at/near the top! :yes:

Well lets see here, SIU has a POY candidate returning from last year in Faulker, another very solid forward in Shaw, and a returning point guard. They have consistantly shown good defense beats good offense any day, not to mention the huge rebounding advantage they should carry in most games due to Falker and Shaw. Also, they are the defending champions, and in a lot of peoples minds, they will be the champs until they are unseated.

Bradley has a good team returning and so does SIU. BU will likely have the edge in guard play, but SIU without question has the edge in post play. SIU is very good at defending the perimeter which will help nuetralize those returning guards. I don't think anyone questions SIU's ability to play D, which is the tiebreaker in this situation.

[shaunguth]

Well lets see here, SIU has a POY candidate returning from last year in Faulker, another very solid forward in Shaw, and a returning point guard. They have consistantly shown good defense beats good offense any day, not to mention the huge rebounding advantage they should carry in most games due to Falker and Shaw. Also, they are the defending champions, and in a lot of peoples minds, they will be the champs until they are unseated.

Bradley has a good team returning and so does SIU. BU will likely have the edge in guard play, but SIU without question has the edge in post play. SIU is very good at defending the perimeter which will help nuetralize those returning guards. I don't think anyone questions SIU's ability to play D, which is the tiebreaker in this situation.

I just don't see that "huge rebounding advantage" against Bradley this season.

[dakyne]

Besides Salley, does BU even have a frontcourt?

Genius, I have to agree somewhat with your post.

[UE-BBALL#1]

Here's what the Aces are looking at...

Holsinger- This is going to be his team now. He has the ability from the point guard slot to take over the game with his shooting and will probably be looked at more to score this season than before.

Ely- Shy needs to step up this year. He struggled at times last year but has the ability to slash through the defense and do a really good job on the boards from a guard spot. It'd be nice if he could develop a better jump shot.

Cousinard- Struggled to find himself last year despite being put into the starting lineup as a freshman. UE really needs him to step up at least as a defensive presence on the court.

Garner- Nate is a JuCo transfer who probably has a shot at making it into the starting lineup this season. He is undersized at 6-5 but is a guy who will battle down low and be the gritty type of player Simmons likes.

Gomez- Again, probably undersized at 6-6 but has been working hard so far this season, which is a welcome change from past seasons. He's the only scholarship senior on the team and has the ability to step outside.

Bench:
Granger- Can shoot about as well as Holsinger but lacks either the talent or more likely the desire to play on the defensive side. Hopefully he can step up on the defensive side this season so he's not quite the liability he was last year.

Lacy- The freshman backup point guard has been the talk of the team through the early practice season so far. All signs indicate that this kid can play. Playing behind Holsinger may limit him some, but I think the minutes will be there with the Aces smaller lineup.

van Tongeren- the dunkin dutchman redshirted last season to try to catch up to the speed of the American game. He is probably still too soft to be a banger in the post and too slow to keep up with a small, quick lineup. I think he will struggle this season in his first year of college ball.

House- the 7 foot freshman is probably a few years away from being able to contribute. He will probably see some minutes simply out of need and hopefully will be able to provide some rebounding and defense down low.

Van Hoose- not really sure how much the freshman will be able to contribute this season after tearing his ACL last spring. Should be another dead-eye shooter if he can work his way into the rotation.

Hopf- probably the best known area recruit the Aces brought in. I think that a redshirt is still possible after he also tore his ACL last spring. He is a little slow and has yet to practice with the team.

The Aces are going to be hurting in the post this year. They will have to rely on guard play and outside shooting to carry the team, which is dangerous. The Aces will be in the 8-10 range in the conference, but because of the reliance on the outside shot will manage to get hot and beat someone they shouldn't. At the same time, an off night will lead to some disappointing defeats. I think a small, quick lineup will help the offensive flow for the Aces. Simmons is a coach of the undersized, gritty defense. Hopefully this season is a learning experience for everyone involved, as all but one player on the team will return next season.

[shaunguth]

Besides Salley, does BU even have a frontcourt?

Genius, I have to agree somewhat with your post.

Considering Salley is one of the smallest frontcourt players on the roster.....I would say they do....

7' 0", 240, Jr, David Collins
6' 10", 186, Fr, Anthony Thompson
6' 9", 256, Sr, Sam Singh
6' 9", 220, Fr, Will Egolf
6' 7", 245, Jr, Rashad Austin
6' 7", 230, Sr, Matt Salley

:yes:

[Khan4Cats]

I am going to go out on a limb here and say if UNI gets to start all the guys listed they will win the Valley. It is tough to win when you are playing 5 vs. 6. How does UNI get to start 6 and everyone else only gets to start 5?

and Lincoln Jay "Interesting that UNI loses Stout and McKowen yet still has four returning starters."

READING COMPREHENSION
If you look, and not even all that closely, I mentioned that Ahelegbe worked his way into the starting line-up at the end of the year and will likely start this year, and that Brown started most of the games last year but came off the bench at the end, where he will likely stay.
I listed them both as "returning" starters because I figured some people might look at the games played stats and assume Brown was the starter (since he had more starts) and Ahelegbe as the backup (with fewer starts). Sorry if that confused some of our slower readers.:doh:

[Ricky Del Rio]

Here's what the Aces are looking at...

Holsinger- This is going to be his team now. He has the ability from the point guard slot to take over the game with his shooting and will probably be looked at more to score this season than before.


I hope he does not shoot more. Either last year or the year before, he came into Koch on fire and we could not put out the fire. He must have shot 90% from 3.

He is one fine shooter.

[dakyne]

Good one Shaun.

I should rephrase that to add "with Div. 1 experience".

It actually wouldn't surprise me if BU wins the MVC, but I'm not expecting it, as Les has proven that he can field a competitive team, but he hasn't proven he can coach a championship team. He will always have chemistry issues as long as he continues to recruit multiple jucos.

[tBU]

Good one Shaun.

He will always have chemistry issues as long as he continues to recruit multiple jucos.


Where did I hear that before...oh yeah I think Bill Self said that right before BU knocked them off advancing to the Sweet 16 with a team of "multiple juco's" with zero chemistry....JL has done what many coaches can't seem to do with Juco's. He's hit the jackpot more often then not. He has focused on recruiting Jucos that have had ringing endorsements form former coaches and admins at those players Jr. Colleges.

BU recrutied two players from Yuba Jr. College. The coach at that University has been a poster on BradleyFans board and before Lawrence Wright and Zach Andrews ever stepped foot on the floor he told us we were getting two of the most special players (attitude wise) he had ever coached.

Will Franklin....Tony Bennet.... and as I mentioned, Lawrence Wright and Zach Andrews.....to name a few. Guys not heavily sought after but players that came with high praise from Juco Coaches and players that have been instrumental in BU's climb back toward the top.

With that said I agree SIU is the fav until someone proves they can knock them off. BU has the potential to take that next step and win the Valley. Only time will tell.

I will take second though with deep runs in the big dance.

[aceshigh]

Here's what the Aces are looking at...

Holsinger- This is going to be his team now. He has the ability from the point guard slot to take over the game with his shooting and will probably be looked at more to score this season than before.

Ely- Shy needs to step up this year. He struggled at times last year but has the ability to slash through the defense and do a really good job on the boards from a guard spot. It'd be nice if he could develop a better jump shot.

Cousinard- Struggled to find himself last year despite being put into the starting lineup as a freshman. UE really needs him to step up at least as a defensive presence on the court.

Garner- Nate is a JuCo transfer who probably has a shot at making it into the starting lineup this season. He is undersized at 6-5 but is a guy who will battle down low and be the gritty type of player Simmons likes.

Gomez- Again, probably undersized at 6-6 but has been working hard so far this season, which is a welcome change from past seasons. He's the only scholarship senior on the team and has the ability to step outside.

Bench:
Granger- Can shoot about as well as Holsinger but lacks either the talent or more likely the desire to play on the defensive side. Hopefully he can step up on the defensive side this season so he's not quite the liability he was last year.

Lacy- The freshman backup point guard has been the talk of the team through the early practice season so far. All signs indicate that this kid can play. Playing behind Holsinger may limit him some, but I think the minutes will be there with the Aces smaller lineup.

van Tongeren- the dunkin dutchman redshirted last season to try to catch up to the speed of the American game. He is probably still too soft to be a banger in the post and too slow to keep up with a small, quick lineup. I think he will struggle this season in his first year of college ball.

House- the 7 foot freshman is probably a few years away from being able to contribute. He will probably see some minutes simply out of need and hopefully will be able to provide some rebounding and defense down low.

Van Hoose- not really sure how much the freshman will be able to contribute this season after tearing his ACL last spring. Should be another dead-eye shooter if he can work his way into the rotation.

Hopf- probably the best known area recruit the Aces brought in. I think that a redshirt is still possible after he also tore his ACL last spring. He is a little slow and has yet to practice with the team.

The Aces are going to be hurting in the post this year. They will have to rely on guard play and outside shooting to carry the team, which is dangerous. The Aces will be in the 8-10 range in the conference, but because of the reliance on the outside shot will manage to get hot and beat someone they shouldn't. At the same time, an off night will lead to some disappointing defeats. I think a small, quick lineup will help the offensive flow for the Aces. Simmons is a coach of the undersized, gritty defense. Hopefully this season is a learning experience for everyone involved, as all but one player on the team will return next season.

You really think that will be the Aces starting lineup? I don't, too small and they need another shooter, I think Peter will start, with Gomez, Shy, and Jason, and the 5th spot is up for grabs with the nod going to whoever is playing good defense and shows the ability to knock down the big shots, they have to fill Anslinger's shoes, and that is probally going to be Grainger, Lacy, or Vanhoose (depending on his knee), or Jc if he shows he can shoot the rock, but they have to have at least one big guy in the starting lineup and I think the edge goes to Peter right now

[shaunguth]

Good one Shaun.

I should rephrase that to add "with Div. 1 experience".

It actually wouldn't surprise me if BU wins the MVC, but I'm not expecting it, as Les has proven that he can field a competitive team, but he hasn't proven he can coach a championship team. He will always have chemistry issues as long as he continues to recruit multiple jucos.

NOW you "rephrase" the question. :no:

I guess the answer to your new question is "no...Bradley does not have a frontcourt this season! They will probably be outrebounded greatly in each and every game, especially when facing the huge rebounding disadvantage against the mighty Salukis."

[shaunguth]

Where did I hear that before...oh yeah I think Bill Self said that right before BU knocked them off advancing to the Sweet 16 with a team of "multiple juco's" with zero chemistry....JL has done what many coaches can't seem to do with Juco's. He's hit the jackpot more often then not. He has focused on recruiting Jucos that have had ringing endorsements form former coaches and admins at those players Jr. Colleges.

Agreed.....I'm sure there are many programs in the country that would like to enjoy those kind of "chemistry issues".

[dakyne]

Well, at the end of the day, talent is probably the biggest determining factor of success, altho not the only one. Sommerville was a transfer also, and along with POB, BU had some good talent.

And irrespective of talent or lack thereof, JL has never had his team finish above 4th in the MVC regular season. The tourney is a crapshoot.

As for recruiting jucos or hs players, I wouldn't think a former coach's praise is rare--do you honestly believe any coach is going to disparage his own players? Of course, coaches are going to pump up their own players--just some of them end up being accurate.

And yeah, if someone points out the error in my post, shouldn't I have the opportunity to correct it--or should I just hold on to some false hope it goes away?

My comment on lack of a frontcourt at BU wasn't wrong necessarily--it was incomplete. Their frontcourt is basically unproven at this level.

[UE-BBALL#1]

You really think that will be the Aces starting lineup? I don't, too small and they need another shooter, I think Peter will start, with Gomez, Shy, and Jason, and the 5th spot is up for grabs with the nod going to whoever is playing good defense and shows the ability to knock down the big shots, they have to fill Anslinger's shoes, and that is probally going to be Grainger, Lacy, or Vanhoose (depending on his knee), or Jc if he shows he can shoot the rock, but they have to have at least one big guy in the starting lineup and I think the edge goes to Peter right now

I've heard that Pieter is still struggling a lot in keeping up with the game. He has the size but isn't quite the banger someone that big should be. I could see Granger starting but only if he picks up his defensive effort. Otherwise, I think you could see UE go that small and try to play an uptempo game. Apparently Garner, even at 6-5, will be our best post presence in terms of both rebounding and defense. Our post offense will be non-existent.

[TNMSUFAN]

Considering Salley is one of the smallest frontcourt players on the roster.....I would say they do....

7' 0", 240, Jr, David Collins
6' 10", 186, Fr, Anthony Thompson
6' 9", 256, Sr, Sam Singh
6' 9", 220, Fr, Will Egolf
6' 7", 245, Jr, Rashad Austin


:yes:
How many minutes per game did these players average in the Valley last year?

There is no question BU's returning guards are very good but the front court has some question marks IMO.

[shaunguth]

How many minutes per game did these players average in the Valley last year?

There is no question BU's returning guards are very good but the front court has some question marks IMO.

I simply responded to the post that basically said Salley is the only frontcourt player Bradley has. I happen to disagree.

[aceshigh]

I've heard that Pieter is still struggling a lot in keeping up with the game. He has the size but isn't quite the banger someone that big should be. I could see Granger starting but only if he picks up his defensive effort. Otherwise, I think you could see UE go that small and try to play an uptempo game. Apparently Garner, even at 6-5, will be our best post presence in terms of both rebounding and defense. Our post offense will be non-existent.

I think Peter is better than what you have heard, if our biggest post player is 6'5, we are in for a long season

[dakyne]

tnmsufan,

How many minutes per game did these players average in the Valley last year?

There is no question BU's returning guards are very good but the front court has some question marks IMO.

Thank you.

[shaunguth]

How many minutes per game did these players average in the Valley last year?

There is no question BU's returning guards are very good but the front court has some question marks IMO.

Hopefully the Valley coaches completely disregard every new player on the Bradley roster this season as well. Looks to me like Bradley will have one of the more inexperienced teams and should probably finish in the bottom half of the league. :confused1:

[dakyne]

shaun,

Not sure if your comments are directed at me, but I have BU penciled in as 2nd--not sure you can play the underdog card when rival fans predict you'll finish 2nd out of 10 teams in a competitive conference.

[LincolnJay]

Jim Les, a good recruiter, was a terrible bench coach for years, his teams were mediocre at best and the Bradley fans were close to running him out of town a couple years back.

Then, he hires Beuchler {sp}, a noted bench coach, as an assistant and suddenly he's a genius {although he has STILL never finished in the top 3 in the league regular season}.

Now Beuchler is gone. It should be interesting.

:braves:

[shaunguth]

shaun,

Not sure if your comments are directed at me, but I have BU penciled in as 2nd--not sure you can play the underdog card when rival fans predict you'll finish 2nd out of 10 teams in a competitive conference.

Competitive maybe, but how good can the conference really be if the team that finishes 2nd has nothing but a couple guards and Matt Salley. SIU will clearly be the favorite and it will be a MAJOR upset if anyone defeats them, especially with that huge rebounding advantage they'll have.

[shaunguth]

Jim Les, a good recruiter, was a terrible bench coach for years, his teams were mediocre at best and the Bradley fans were close to running him out of town a couple years back.

Then, he hires Beuchler {sp}, a noted bench coach, as an assistant and suddenly he's a genius {although he has STILL never finished in the top 3 in the league}.

Now Beuchler is gone. It should be interesting.

:braves:

I would not be writing off this Bradley team simply because Chuck B. is not on the coaching staff anymore!

[Ricky Del Rio]

I think Peter is better than what you have heard, if our biggest post player is 6'5, we are in for a long season

Yes, I feel for you, if it is true.

We tried defending the post with a 6-5 guy last year and you saw what it got us.

[dakyne]

RDR,

Good point, but Marshall is probably a better coach than Merfeld. He had VCU competitive. Harrick was right--WSU is a sleeping giant.

[TNMSUFAN]

Competitive maybe, but how good can the conference really be if the team that finishes 2nd has nothing but a couple guards and Matt Salley. SIU will clearly be the favorite and it will be a MAJOR upset if anyone defeats them, especially with that huge rebounding advantage they'll have.

I don't think anyone is saying that BU only has 3 players...I think we are saying your other players are UNKNOWNS because they have never played a single minute of Valley basketball. I think our Juco recruits (Chris Cooks and Wade Knapp) are great players also after watching them all summer but playing in the summer and playing in the Valley are two completely different things. We will see how they play once league play starts just like we will see how your new guys play.

I think we are going to be pretty good because we return a solid foundation with Spencer Laurie, Deven Mitchell, Drew Richards, Dale Lamberth, and Shane Laurie who all averaged over 15 minutes per game last year in the Valley. Of course you need more than 5 players so the play of our 2 jucos and couple incoming frosh will determine how good the season is.

[SiuCubFan8]

This is the lowdown on SIU ... we are in trouble.

We have no inside game. We have nobody to run our offense. We can not defend anyone. Our coach has only been on the job three years and is still learning. And, things do not look any better in the future because we can not convince anybody of note to come to Carbondale to play.

It is going to be a long winter at SIU.:innocent:

We have no chance.:salukis::Jumpy:

[goaces]

You really think that will be the Aces starting lineup? I don't, too small and they need another shooter, I think Peter will start, with Gomez, Shy, and Jason, and the 5th spot is up for grabs with the nod going to whoever is playing good defense and shows the ability to knock down the big shots, they have to fill Anslinger's shoes, and that is probally going to be Grainger, Lacy, or Vanhoose (depending on his knee), or Jc if he shows he can shoot the rock, but they have to have at least one big guy in the starting lineup and I think the edge goes to Peter right now

Garner will defintely be starting. My guess is that PVT will start as well. JH, of course will be at the point, granger will be the two, and it will be a toss up for the three spot...perhaps Gomez, whom I have heard has looked good in practice. lacy will get A LOT of playing time. Here is hoping that Shy will realize some of the promise he showed as a freshman.

[WSUbballer]

RDR,

Good point, but Marshall is probably a better coach than Merfeld. He had VCU competitive. Harrick was right--WSU is a sleeping giant.

VCU, Winthrop, same thing..

[DawgieStyle]

My mentality is until the season starts...the champs are the ones to beat. Or does winning the valley mean nothing anymore?

Once the season starts, and things iron them selves out, we can talk about who "might" win based on the play of all these NEW players, and how EACH teams chemistry is being resolved.

UNTIL, we see a single game of the 2007-2008 season be played though, the champs are the champs and the favorties to win it until proven other wise. They've earned at least that much respect. Nothing more, nothing less.

[numbr_9]

I think most BU fans are right to feel optimistic, but we need to temper our enthusiasm somewhat. The fact is, while our lineup appears to be rich in terms of size and talent (and hype) it IS unproven.

Personally, I think that Les's track record of recruitment and ability to get the team to play cohesively will make this a great team.

The potential for greatness is there. We can re discuss this in April.

SIU are the top dogs and are the team to beat until somebody takes it from them. I won't say they're a lock by any stretch, but give credit and respect where it's due.

I think BU can and will top SIU, but its nothing more than one biased man's prediction. Take offense SIU fans, if you want, but I think SIU/BU will be one and two in the valley, just not sure what order yet.

:valley:

[kevinmitchell]

I think most BU fans are right to feel optimistic, but we need to temper our enthusiasm somewhat. The fact is, while our lineup appears to be rich in terms of size and talent (and hype) it IS unproven.

Personally, I think that Les's track record of recruitment and ability to get the team to play cohesively will make this a great team.

The potential for greatness is there. We can re discuss this in April.

SIU are the top dogs and are the team to beat until somebody takes it from them. I won't say they're a lock by any stretch, but give credit and respect where it's due.

I think BU can and will top SIU, but its nothing more than one biased man's prediction. Take offense SIU fans, if you want, but I think SIU/BU will be one and two in the valley, just not sure what order yet.

:valley:

Personally..I would need to see BU finish above 4th under Jim Les before predicting much higher than that.

Other than Ruffin, Crouch, and Salley its basically impossible to predict much more than that.

[goaces]

SIU definetly top dog untill proven otherwise. But absolutely will not be a "cakewalk" as some have suggested. Though the salukis' have been superior in replacing top players before, I'm not so sure with Tatum and Young. There was a toughness about them that I am not sure can be replaced. Can't lose two players like that and not be impacted.
For that reason, I beleive that this year's MVC title will go down to the wire. I'll still take SIU or Bradley.

[DawgieStyle]

Where did Bradley finsih last year? yah exactly...

what in the world did Bradley gain in PROVEN! talent to make everyone think they will contend for the MVC title, or heck, finish better than they did last year?

I don't get this. Never have, never will. Recruits, are just that, recruits, until they actually play a game in the MVC.

If you are basing predictions on them, you are going to be sadly mistaken no matter what team you are talking about.

Stick to known quantities when doing any predicting...they're the only concrete evidence you have to use.

[salukibob]

Crouch and Ruffin will be handfuls for our Salukis. Beyond that though, I think we've got the edge.

[shaunguth]

Crouch and Ruffin will be handfuls for our Salukis. Beyond that though, I think we've got the edge.

Yes....SIU will have a huge rebounding advantage!

[tBU]

Jim Les, a good recruiter, was a terrible bench coach for years, his teams were mediocre at best and the Bradley fans were close to running him out of town a couple years back.

Then, he hires Beuchler {sp}, a noted bench coach, as an assistant and suddenly he's a genius {although he has STILL never finished in the top 3 in the league regular season}.

Now Beuchler is gone. It should be interesting.

:braves:

JL was not a "terrible" bench coach. He was average and is/has been getting better to where I would call him good now.

He, after 3 years, finally got HIS players recruited to play HIS style of ball. Thats when things started getting better.

Chuck Beuscher was a great addition but NOT as a bench coach. If you ever watched many BU games CB did very little in game coaching...JL always has been the guy running the game from tip off to final horn.

CB is no longer employed by BU but he's still around. He has been at the Fieldhouse on a regular basis working with the teams in a "volunteer" position.

His impact will still be felt much like it was for two years he just isn't or won't be travelling with the team.

[shaunguth]

I think most BU fans are right to feel optimistic, but we need to temper our enthusiasm somewhat. The fact is, while our lineup appears to be rich in terms of size and talent (and hype) it IS unproven.

Personally, I think that Les's track record of recruitment and ability to get the team to play cohesively will make this a great team.

The potential for greatness is there. We can re discuss this in April.

SIU are the top dogs and are the team to beat until somebody takes it from them. I won't say they're a lock by any stretch, but give credit and respect where it's due.

I think BU can and will top SIU, but its nothing more than one biased man's prediction. Take offense SIU fans, if you want, but I think SIU/BU will be one and two in the valley, just not sure what order yet.

:valley:
I agree with this post for the most part, but for some people to come here and say Bradley does not have a frontcourt other than Matt Salley is absurd, and only slightly more absurd than saying Chuck B. not being on the coaching staff anymore will possibly impact the results of this season.

[JDawg]

I am probably one of the few SIU fans who think our defensive tenacity will be lacking this year. The inside presence will remain the same except for Carlton Fay (whom many expect to see significant playing time) who was recruited for his offensive abilities. He will have a significant learning curve when it comes to playing Saluki defense, but his offensive tenacity has been compared to Webster from last years Evansville team. He has a mean streak.

While Mullins was our best on the ball defender, he can't make up for the departure of Tatum and Young. Clemens, IMO, has slow feet and will be capable defensively, but not great. Green, has had a year to adjust to the D1 level and should contribute good defense, but his bad excuse for an offensive game will probably keep his minutes somewhat limited.

Enter Josh Bone and Brandon Wood. Bone was supposed to be a defensive liablility last year, but he didn't play like it. With his improving defense, good shooting, and increased minutes, he could very well put up a stat line comparable to Tatum's sophmore year. As for Wood, I honestly don't know much about him other than his dire need to put on weight. He will be playing as a true frosh.

Another big question mark is Christian Cornelius. He has had a troublesome rehabilitation process with his knee, but he is going to try to play. Wether he contributes significantly remains to be seen. At 6'7, he would be a athletic wing presence and could create matchup problems with his ball handling and shooting abilities.

Only time will tell, but anything less than an NCAA tournament berth would be disappointing.

[shaunguth]

We have no chance.:salukis::Jumpy:

Neither does Bradley! Looks like the Valley will be wide open and BU cannot be expected to finish any higher than 5th, since JL has never gotten them there before. Oh well.....not to sound too much like a Cubs' fan, but there's always next year.

[numbr_9]

oh dawgie .. youre always so entertaining

Where did Bradley finsih last year? yah exactly...

i don't see why finishing #4 last year excludes BU from contending for the title this year, but then again, i am known to think logically ...


what in the world did Bradley gain in PROVEN! talent to make everyone think they will contend for the MVC title, or heck, finish better than they did last year?

The whole premise of predicting finishes is based upon taking into account known variables and add in what you suspect the unknown factors will mean. Last year Bradley had great shooting and was terrible at inside defense and rebounding. They return the two best guards in the valley and the two top returning scorers, and have greatly improved their size. Yes, size is PROVEN. What they can do with the size is an unknown variable, but then again, if we knew what the outcome will be, why play the games?

I don't get this. Never have, never will. Recruits, are just that, recruits, until they actually play a game in the MVC.

If you are basing predictions on them, you are going to be sadly mistaken no matter what team you are talking about.

i disagree. Nobody is trying to hand BU the trophy right now. maybe you missed all the BU fans saying that SIU was the team to beat? All we're doing is getting excited about a season with more potential than I remember.

Stick to known quantities when doing any predicting...they're the only concrete evidence you have to use.

ah, like the fact that i KNOW that tatum won't be playing for SIU this year? your best player is not returning ... if we stick to such a known factor then i'd say SIU is far from a lock.

[WSUbballer]

Can I ask who your favorites were to win the title last year Dawgie?

[DawgieStyle]

I didn't say you guys were handing BU the trophy, I was saying you were handing them a top half finish based on what?

The return of Ruffin and Crouch from a 4th place team who lost there x's and o's assitant coach.

and no, I'm not forgetting your recruits, I'm ignoring them, same as I am SIU's, they are unknowns...they could suck, or they could be all-pro's.

I agreee SIU's loss of tatum and young is harsh...BUT! SIU HAS PROVEN in the past, and set a precedent, that BU hasn't, that they can replace good leaders with new ones...shaw and falker and mullins, and still compete for a title.

That and their style of play isn't as dependent on pure atheletic talent.....just hard dirty defense that is something that can be replaced by players willing to get some floor burns, which again, is something siu has PROVEN they can do.

add in the previous years coach of the year, the preseason POY, and our home court advantage, and PRECEDENT of replacing players like Tatum and Young (with falker and shaw), and I think its pretty clear why its much easier to buy SIU contending for a title this year than Bradley or anyone else.

Based, soley on past precedent, returning players and coaches, and NOT un-proven recruits.

your asking Valley fans to respect your team...but SIU has developed a PROGRAM that has proven the ability to absorb losses like Tatum and Young.

[DawgieStyle]

Can I ask who your favorites were to win the title last year Dawgie?

before the season started?

I think I had Creighton followed by SIU And WSU.

[genius4point0]

Considering Salley is one of the smallest frontcourt players on the roster.....I would say they do....

7' 0", 240, Jr, David Collins
6' 10", 186, Fr, Anthony Thompson
6' 9", 256, Sr, Sam Singh
6' 9", 220, Fr, Will Egolf
6' 7", 245, Jr, Rashad Austin
6' 7", 230, Sr, Matt Salley

:yes:

Well lets see, considering you were tied for last place in rebounds last year with SIU and you lose 2 of your top 3 rebounders mayber more, not sure if Danny Adams and Andrew Warren are back, I think SIU would have the rebound advantage.

So you are counting on 2 juco's 2 freshman, and a senior who has played sparingly to make your inside presence better than last year? That was your problem last year and will be again this year.

[genius4point0]

I agree with this post for the most part, but for some people to come here and say Bradley does not have a frontcourt other than Matt Salley is absurd, and only slightly more absurd than saying Chuck B. not being on the coaching staff anymore will possibly impact the results of this season.

Not having an x's and o's guy on the bench could possibly hurt. Essentially, BU doesn't have a front court other than Salley, when you look at what they have returning. They have him and Singh, who has been very limited. You look at the other top teams in the valley and they return the bigs. SIU has Shaw and Falker, UNI has Coleman and some big players who were freshman last year who showed signs of being good, Il ST has their whole team back, MSU has Richards, Mitchell, and Lamberth, all who have shown they can play in the post.

Obviously post play matters, as there is a reason you finished 4th in conference last year with those great guards you have. What is there to say you have anything in the post better than you did last year? Nothing, so what is to say you will do any better this year with those guards than you did last year? Nothing.

I think BU will be good and has a really good shot at being top 3 this year. I am just saying there is nothing to say they should be put ahead of SIU right not, like a lot of BU fans seem to think.

Head-to-head vs SIU

Guard Play - BU
Post Play(which does include rebounding) - SIU
Defense - SIU
Coach - SIU

Last time I checked 3 is more than 1.

As a qualifier I am an MSU fan, not SIU.

[kevinmitchell]

JL was not a "terrible" bench coach. He was average and is/has been getting better to where I would call him good now.

He, after 3 years, finally got HIS players recruited to play HIS style of ball. Thats when things started getting better.

Chuck Beuscher was a great addition but NOT as a bench coach. If you ever watched many BU games CB did very little in game coaching...JL always has been the guy running the game from tip off to final horn.

CB is no longer employed by BU but he's still around. He has been at the Fieldhouse on a regular basis working with the teams in a "volunteer" position.

His impact will still be felt much like it was for two years he just isn't or won't be travelling with the team.

Ultimately the head coach gets the credit/blame for success and failures. That being said, if you really think CB had little to do with in game coaching you are sadly mistaken.

Again, the credit goes to Les--he is the head coach and hires his assistants. But let's not act like CB didn't coach.

[kevinmitchell]

I agree with this post for the most part, but for some people to come here and say Bradley does not have a frontcourt other than Matt Salley is absurd, and only slightly more absurd than saying Chuck B. not being on the coaching staff anymore will possibly impact the results of this season.

Shaun...you really think losing CB won't mean much at all?

[shaunguth]

Shaun...you really think losing CB won't mean much at all?

No.....I really don't. I'm not sure exactly how much he contributed to in-game coaching, therefore I don't think it will mean that much simply because he won't be on the bench this year.

[shaunguth]

Well lets see, considering you were tied for last place in rebounds last year with SIU and you lose 2 of your top 3 rebounders mayber more, not sure if Danny Adams and Andrew Warren are back, I think SIU would have the rebound advantage.

So you are counting on 2 juco's 2 freshman, and a senior who has played sparingly to make your inside presence better than last year? That was your problem last year and will be again this year.

Yes...I am counting on Collins, Austin, Salley, and even Singh to make for a better inside presence than last year. I don't believe the frontcourt will be nearly the problem it was last year, but then again we should just ignore the kids without any Valley experience and assume that Salley is the only frontcourt player that Bradley has this season.

[DawgieStyle]

Yes...I am counting on Collins, Austin, Salley, and even Singh to make for a better inside presence than last year. I don't believe the frontcourt will be nearly the problem it was last year, but then again we should just ignore the kids without any Valley experience and assume that Salley is the only frontcourt player that Bradley has this season.

pretty much, you should ignore them...you have NO! idea what they will be capable of at the D-1 level of the MVC. They've never played in it.

If you can predict how a kid will perform at the d-1 level after making the transition from juco or HS, then you are in the wrong profession, maybe you should be handling Bradley's scouting.....:naughty:

Heck if your that good, you should be working for Duke maybe....let us know when Coach K calls.

[shaunguth]

pretty much, you should ignore them...you have NO! idea what they will be capable of at the D-1 level of the MVC. They've never played in it.

If you can predict how a kid will perform at the d-1 level after making the transition from juco or HS, then you are in the wrong profession, maybe you should be handling Bradley's scouting.....:naughty:

Heck if your that good, you should be working for Duke maybe....let us know when Coach K calls.

You're right....I have ZERO faith in JL and staff's recruiting ability. These kids ARE backup plans afterall! There is absolutely NO reason to believe Bradley finishes higher than 5th and even less reason to believe Bradley finishes anywhere but last in rebounding!

[DawgieStyle]

You're right....I have ZERO faith in JL and staff's recruiting ability. These kids ARE backup plans afterall! There is absolutely NO reason to believe Bradley finishes higher than 5th and even less reason to believe Bradley finishes anywhere but last in rebounding!

I'm not telling you not to have faith in their recruiting, I'm telling you that their impact won't be felt, especially HS kids, typically for a couple years.

If you're counting on true freshman to make you a contender, you are delusional...what, you think you have Mcdonald all americans coming to peoria?

And if you're relying on JUCO's to bail you out, what's that say about your PAST recruiting efforts..huh? I'd say you got burned and had to find a fix in a hurry.

When looking at predicting up coming seasons its much safer to bet on KNOWN factors.

gey hyped all you want about your recruits, everyone does, but you fail to remember they typically don't have their full impact at least until year 2 in the system, usually year 3.

[shaunguth]

I'm not telling you not to have faith in their recruiting, I'm telling you that their impact won't be felt, especially HS kids, typically for a couple years.

If you're counting on true freshman to make you a contender, you are delusional...what, you think you have Mcdonald all americans coming to peoria?

And if you're relying on JUCO's to bail you out, what's that say about your PAST recruiting efforts..huh? I'd say you got burned and had to find a fix in a hurry.

When looking at predicting up coming seasons its much safer to bet on KNOWN factors.

gey hyped all you want about your recruits, everyone does, but you fail to remember they typically don't have their full impact at least until year 2 in the system, usually year 3.

Again....you're exactly right....going on KNOWN factors and past performance says Bradley will be nothing more than a 4-10 finisher in the conference and dead last in rebounding. I do happen to disagree that the impact of Collins, Austin, Wilson, and Cole-Scott won't be felt this year. However, I don't ever recall "counting on true freshmen".

[DawgieStyle]

Again....you're exactly right....going on KNOWN factors and past performance says Bradley will be nothing more than a 5-10 finisher in the conference and dead last in rebounding. I do happen to disagree that the impact of Collins, Austin, Wilson, and Cole-Scott won't be felt this year. However, I don't ever recall "counting on true freshmen".

ok, so other than new juco's and freshmen, and losing CB...what's different about this years Bradley team than their 4th place team last year, other than being a year older? and what precedent in the last 10 years has Bradley set to make people believe than can make the jump up to contender? other than one NCAA trip.

[DawgieStyle]

and to be fair, I don't think SIU has as much of a strangle hold on the pre-season pick as they have had in the past.

They did lose Tatum and Young. agreed.

compard to other teams they haven't lost as much as they have, and have more returning than most. The biggest being preseason POY canidate Falker and Coach of the year Lowery.

I will say this is probably the most wide open the valley is going to get for some time.

If other teams were going to take the throne...this would be the year to do it.

[kevinmitchell]

No.....I really don't. I'm not sure exactly how much he contributed to in-game coaching, therefore I don't think it will mean that much simply because he won't be on the bench this year.

Heck, games are often times won or lost from a coaching standpoint before the game even starts.

Ask any coach worth his salt. The "work" goes into the practices, scouting reports, and preparation. Much less of it is in the "in game" coaching. Once the ball is thrown up you rely on all the work you did prior to the game.

And in that regard, CB had a major, major influence. No doubt about it. It doesnt mean BU will stink without him, but it will be a tough adjustment for Coach Les.

[dakyne]

I place little faith in the argument that "it's SIU's to lose, since they are the defending champions".

Why? Because last year is last year, and this season is this season, with new players, and in some cases, new coaches.

What is relevant is returning players, which alludes to them being a known quantity and them (probably) coming back stronger, and improved. How much improved is the question...

Of lesser importance is the newcomers initially, as none of us knows which ones will live up to their hype, and which ones won't.

With all that thrown into the salad bowl, SIU does APPEAR to be A favorite, if not THE favorite. It's certainly not a lock this year, that I would agree with. And with the MVC being a guard-oriented conference (hence the many wins OOC, but sometimes coming up short in the NCAA's), and given that BU brings back two of the best guards, it makes sense that BU is also a favorite.

CU and WSU, usually 2 of the more competitive programs recently, lose ALOT in terms of players. Miles also leaving especially hurts CU. WSU has more coming back than CU, but they have a new coach to deal with and all the adjustments. Because of that, I believe IlSU and MSU are the sleepers, since they have the most coming back of all the teams. They should be improved.

bballer,

Thanks for the correction. I tried to change VCU to Winthrop, but it wouldn't allow me. This VT edit function is temperamental.

[MSNSaluki]

Predictions are like buttholes ... everybody's got one.

Answer me this ... how many times in the last decade has the preseason favorite to win the Valley actually won the Valley? Not many.

So nobody knows what's gonna happen at this point. Hell, Drake or Evansville could win the conference title and it wouldn't surprise me.

[dakyne]

Wasn't SIU favored to win the regular season last year? If they were, ur right: one of the few times the favorite won the actual regular season title.

[aceshigh]

Garner will defintely be starting. My guess is that PVT will start as well. JH, of course will be at the point, granger will be the two, and it will be a toss up for the three spot...perhaps Gomez, whom I have heard has looked good in practice. lacy will get A LOT of playing time. Here is hoping that Shy will realize some of the promise he showed as a freshman.
I don't see how you can say Garner is a "definite", I think it is between him and Gomez
for the 4 spot, I think Shy is a definite at the 3, and the biggest and only question mark is at the 2

[UE-BBALL#1]

I don't see how you can say Garner is a "definite", I think it is between him and Gomez
for the 4 spot, I think Shy is a definite at the 3, and the biggest and only question mark is at the 2

Based on whats been happening in practices Garner is a much more sure thing than PVT is. I honestly cannot see Simmons playing an immobile big man with questionable post moves and the inability to keep up with the pace of the other 4 guys on the court. PVT has improved but not enough to warrant being in the starting lineup. Size is not always enough.

[MSNSaluki]

Wasn't SIU favored to win the regular season last year? If they were, ur right: one of the few times the favorite won the actual regular season title.


I think that was the first time in six or seven years that happened.

[BMull10]

I think that was the first time in six or seven years that happened.
Creighton was definitely picked to win the Valley last year.

[shaunguth]

Heck, games are often times won or lost from a coaching standpoint before the game even starts.

Ask any coach worth his salt. The "work" goes into the practices, scouting reports, and preparation. Much less of it is in the "in game" coaching. Once the ball is thrown up you rely on all the work you did prior to the game.

And in that regard, CB had a major, major influence. No doubt about it. It doesnt mean BU will stink without him, but it will be a tough adjustment for Coach Les.

You've confirmed exactly what I was saying! Not having CB on the staff or on the bench does not change his influence on this team.

[shaunguth]

ok, so other than new juco's and freshmen, and losing CB...what's different about this years Bradley team than their 4th place team last year, other than being a year older? and what precedent in the last 10 years has Bradley set to make people believe than can make the jump up to contender? other than one NCAA trip.
Other than those items you've listed, I guess the biggest thing would be the fact that during the last 38 years, no MVC school has entered a season with the Valley’s top two returning scorers. The fact that one of those is the nation's active career assist leader and the other was one of the very best three-point shooters in the country last year leads me to believe the new guys will be worked in rather easily. I'm sure if Ruffin wasn't running the show I would have much different expectations for the upcoming season. I realize there are those people that will continue to believe the incoming frontcourt juco's will not contribute until next year because they don't have any "Valley experience" leaving Matt Salley as the only frontcourt player on the roster, but I happen to believe Bradley has a much more complete team this year. I'm more worried about the distribution of minutes on what seems to be a very deep bench than I am the quality of the players on the roster.

[aceshigh]

Based on whats been happening in practices Garner is a much more sure thing than PVT is. I honestly cannot see Simmons playing an immobile big man with questionable post moves and the inability to keep up with the pace of the other 4 guys on the court. PVT has improved but not enough to warrant being in the starting lineup. Size is not always enough.

I think Peter moves fine for his size, but someon has to defend the paint, and it is next to impossible for 6'5 guys to do it, I don't care how "fast" they are, I think you have to throw Peter out there and let him grow into the job

[goaces]

I think Peter moves fine for his size, but someon has to defend the paint, and it is next to impossible for 6'5 guys to do it, I don't care how "fast" they are, I think you have to throw Peter out there and let him grow into the job

That is absoulety correct. You have to have someone in the middle that can at least be a defensive presense.
Garner is a definite because he is able to play a physical game and bang the boards. Inside play will be by far the biggest weakness for the Aces this year. Shy does not like contact and did not improve much over his freshman season (let's hope that changes this year!) Garner is more of a "Simmons" type player.
This, of course, is simply my own assessment,and I could be way off base. But I follow the program closely. Let's hope in a couple years Marty can get the program back to where it once was.:aces:

[kevinmitchell]

You've confirmed exactly what I was saying! Not having CB on the staff or on the bench does not change his influence on this team.


Shaun...did you even read what I wrote? CB played a major, major role in the game planning and preparation of the team for the upcoming opponents.

Now he is gone. To me, that is a concern when your main "game plan" coach is no longer there.

[yourbradleybraves!]

Shaun...did you even read what I wrote? CB played a major, major role in the game planning and preparation of the team for the upcoming opponents.

Now he is gone. To me, that is a concern when your main "game plan" coach is no longer there.

He is still there...just not being paid.

[kevinmitchell]

He is still there...just not being paid.

Well...good point :) And let's say hes not "officially" on the BU payroll.

[DawgieStyle]

Well...good point :) And let's say hes not "officially" on the BU payroll.

is that even legal?

[kevinmitchell]

is that even legal?


We are just kidding Dawgie. Although if people are naive enough to think coaches, teams, etc. dont get "outside help" from a friend of the program then I have some swampland to sell them.

Any good coach uses the resources he has available to him.

[shaunguth]

Shaun...did you even read what I wrote? CB played a major, major role in the game planning and preparation of the team for the upcoming opponents.

Now he is gone. To me, that is a concern when your main "game plan" coach is no l