Did you guys see the Wichita State football game on TV today?

[dakyne]

Great win by the Shockers.:shockers::clap:

[Awesome Sauce Malone]

Thanks

We are still undefeated after all these years.

[Cdizzle]

I was too busy watching SIU's game on my TV. I think most of the country was riveted by that game, so I just couldn't justify turning the dial to look for another game.

[dakyne]

Actually, it was a great game that could have gone either way. Hey, however many or few people watched that game, it's still an increase from however many people watched the WSU game.
:innocent:

In divergence-speak, I guess that's flat growth. Sounds like an oxymoron to me, but he must be the authority on the English language.

[dakyne]

awesome,

There's a flip side to that--you haven't won jack all these years either.

[Awesome Sauce Malone]

You're not serious are you?

obsession noted.

[MikeKennedyRulz]

Some things never change. Thanks for thinking about us. I can't imagine what it must feel like to be overcome with such envy that you have to carry it over to a message board. Wow!! :no:

[C0|db|00ded]

Clicky!

http://img2.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/th.fa28a879b5.jpg (http://img2.freeimagehosting.net/image.php?fa28a879b5.jpg)


T


...:cool:

[WSUbballer]

Whatever point you're trying to make about WSU fans looking like idiots is quickly going by the wayside..

You're the one always down on WSU fans and then you bring this rather unoriginal stuff into a basketball forum?

I think you're starting to lose it..




FWIW, I've never seen a Southern Illinois football game on TV in my life. 1-AA football is honestly on par with volleyball. Feel proud.

[Awesome Sauce Malone]

FSN did show the last game against Indiana State on TV.


I should point out though that they waited until 4am to do so.

[dakyne]

Wow, you guys really are sensitive aren't you? Look who's playing the woe is me card...

Sorry, it's such a sore topic--I didn't think it would be that big a deal. My alma mater no longer has a football program either, but it's no big deal.

I'll move along...

[Omahaboundshock]

Actually, it was a great game that could have gone either way. Hey, however many or few people watched that game, it's still an increase from however many people watched the WSU game.
:innocent:

In divergence-speak, I guess that's flat growth. Sounds like an oxymoron to me, but he must be the authority on the English language.


Are you serious? A SIU football game was really on TV? When and what channel? Somehow I missed that game. I did get to see OU-Texas, UNL-Missouri (I think Callahan's days are numbered) and parts of Florida-LSU and OSU-Texas A&M on TV. But in all of my channel surfing for football games, I never came across SIU.

[Ricky Del Rio]

Are you serious? A SIU football game was really on TV? When and what channel? Somehow I missed that game. I did get to see OU-Texas, UNL-Missouri (I think Callahan's days are numbered) and parts of Florida-LSU and OSU-Texas A&M on TV. But in all of my channel surfing for football games, I never came across SIU.


I have DirecTV. I seem to recall that the SIU game was listed on the CSTV network.

I may be incorrect. My memory is slowly going out the window.

I had no idea Gateway Conference games were televised. I thought it was kinda cool it was televised.

[Carrcar]

I have DirecTV. I seem to recall that the SIU game was listed on the CSTV network.

I may be incorrect. My memory is slowly going out the window.

I had no idea Gateway Conference games were televised. I thought it was kinda cool it was televised.
RDR,
I went to the game. YSU has a good team. I can't understand why WSU doesn't get on the stick and get football back. Even small schools like St. Ambrose and Augustana have football. My advice: get a club team started, then gradually work toward FCS status. Your budget is already bigger than tSIU's, and you sure have a better facility, more fan drawing potential, and a good athletic department. WSU would make a great addition to the Gateway.

[SubGod22]

Adding football at WSU is a topic that never goes away on SN. At least not for long. Sadly, Beggs has no desire to start football back up so I doubt anything happens there until he's gone. He's done A LOT of great things at WSU, but his hard line stance on football irritates me. He won't even open it up to research what it would take and if the support is there. From what I've heard from multiple sources is that there's a lot of money just waiting to be given to WSU to start football. Beggs isn't interested.

[outpost]

Re-posted [and paraphrased] from a separate thread.

Yep, Dak is a liberal hippocrite. You see, it's NOT okay for a few fringe WSU posters to denigrate another school that it hasn't competed or matched up with in basketball.

At the same time, it IS okay for him to maliciously trash the non-existent football program of WSU.

Dak, that is something that I am sensitive to. And I am not in the fringe minority on this topic. Let me throw out a few facts for you to suck on. On Tuesday, Ocotber 2, 2007 WSU observed the 37th anniversary of the deadly plane crash that killed several players, coaches and boosters and sent the program into a slow death spiral from which it never recovered - financially, emotionally, or otherwise.

Now if you want to meet in a dark alley to further discuss football (or lack of) at WSU with me, I'll be waiting. Otherwise, take DawgieStyle's advice and S-T-F-U.

[WSUbballer]

Dak, can you say attention whore?

If you can't pronounce that, how about woeful hypocrite?

[MSNSaluki]

So, what did you guys think of Stanford beating USC yesterday?

[WSUbballer]

So, what did you guys think of Stanford beating USC yesterday?

It's been one crazy year. Appy State beats Michigan in the Big House. 2-4 Stanford comes into the Coliseum and beats the Trojans. You gotta wonder what's gonna happen next..

[Awesome Sauce Malone]

It's been one crazy year. Appy State beats Michigan in the Big House. 2-4 Stanford comes into the Coliseum and beats the Trojans. You gotta wonder what's gonna happen next..

Ku winning the B12??


:noexpression:

[dakyne]

hey TARDs, I had no idea of the history of WSU football. And even before I just found out 2 minutes ago, I already said I have moved along.

And outpost--great, are you threatening me? Talk about small gonads--trust me, you wouldn't have a chance.

Like I and others have said, the season can't start soon enough.

And like I said, I'm moving on--I didn't realize lack of football was such a sore subject. It's just a game...get a grip.

Actually, now I'm curious--I thought the plane crashed decimated the WSU basketball team, not their football team. I must have mistaken them for the EU basketball team.

And might as well ask this also: is the WSU AD against bringing back football due to the emotional residue from that incident, or is it more of a financial drain type reasoning? It just seems like WSU fans are clamoring for football, and if they have a decent venue, they would draw well (much like Koch arena), and wouldn't have to be subsidized by mbb.

And to answer omahabound and rdr, yes, the SIU/YSU game was on CSTV yesterday. SIU won their homecoming game 24-17 on a 4th quarter TD drive.

[JJClamdip]

From what I've heard from multiple sources is that there's a lot of money just waiting to be given to WSU to start football. Beggs isn't interested.

SubGod for the love of GOD, STOP IT!

There is no big money out there waiting to be spent on WSU football if there was it would have happened by now.

LEAVE IT ALONE, IT IS A HORSE THAT HAS BEEN BEATEN TO DEATH!

IT IS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN.

EVER!

[MoValley John]

SubGod for the love of GOD STOP IT!

There is no big money out there waiting to be spent on WSU football if there was it would have happened by now.

LEAVE IT ALONE, IT IS A HORSE THAT HAS BEEN BEATEN TO DEATH!

IT IS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN.

EVER!

Just thought I'd Shocker it up a bit.

[JJClamdip]

Thank you Mo, you are the man.

How about donating ten or fifteen million so the Shox can start up a football program?

There is all sorts of big money out there just waiting to give, why not start it out?

[Ricky Del Rio]

Thank you Mo, you are the man.

How about donating ten or fifteen million so the Shox can start up a football program?

There is all sorts of big money out there just waiting to give, why not start it out?

My estimate of the start up costs and reserves is $100 million.

Of course, many will argue with the figger.

[iSASO]

dak...there is no grassroots support for WSU football, only a small yet very vocal minority who have no ability to deliver the $10-$30 million dollars necessary to re-start a football program.

Further, there is no desire to send the fiscally-responsible Shocker athletic department into a death-spiral of debt.

This is such a moot discussion that not only does this thread not belong on the basketball board, it doesn't belong on any board anywhere.

[MoValley John]

Thank you Mo, you are the man.

How about donating ten or fifteen million so the Shox can start up a football program?

There is all sorts of big money out there just waiting to give, why not start it out?

I'd love to help but here's the problem, I'm broke. Not broke like my investments aren't doing so well, broke, but broke like I got nothin' broke. I don't have two cents to rub together, much less to help Wichita State reintroduce football. I don't live on the west coast, inventiong missle defense systems. I'm so broke I have to feed my kids cat food; sometimes we have take out pizza, that is if we can find a couple old pieces in a Sbarro dumpster. We live in a bunch of appliance boxes, connected with duct tape shoplifted from Wal Mart. At least my wife and I have a nice master bedroom, we taped together two refrigerator boxes and are using a dryer box for a walk in closet. On a better note, we do have good access to the freeway, we live under the 13th Street Bridge.

[Chairman of the Boards]

Go and Mo... our resident dumpster divers. :lol:

[MSU Bleeds Maroon]

OGU has finally put together two probation-free decades. Most of that cheating was football-related. Asking them to restart their football program is like inviting an alcoholic to a wine tasting.

Obscene Gesture University doesn't have football. They can't have football. They can't handle football. Case closed, lock thread, kthxbye.

[WSUbballer]

OGU has finally put together two probation-free decades. Most of that cheating was football-related. Asking them to restart their football program is like inviting an alcoholic to a wine tasting.

Obscene Gesture University doesn't have football. They can't have football. They can't handle football. Case closed, lock thread, kthxbye.

What was the attendance for the Bears' home game yesterday?

[dakyne]

ISASO,

Got it, thanks. Aargh pretty much summed it up similarly.

msumaroon,

I thought WSU's men's basketball team was also indicted with scandals. Again, I'm unaware of any cheating scandals for WSU's former football program.

[Fraydog]

Beggs is smart about the economics of football. If it was going to be a winner for WSU, he would have already started it up. I-AA could happen, but it seems as if your fans have no interest in a I-AA squad. Shoot, you could raise your student fees and have enough money for football. I'd say $40 or $50 a semester for 18,000 students could cover it.

[Omahaboundshock]

Adding football at WSU is a topic that never goes away on SN. At least not for long. Sadly, Beggs has no desire to start football back up so I doubt anything happens there until he's gone. He's done A LOT of great things at WSU, but his hard line stance on football irritates me. He won't even open it up to research what it would take and if the support is there. From what I've heard from multiple sources is that there's a lot of money just waiting to be given to WSU to start football. Beggs isn't interested.

Sub- I have heard the same things. In fact to be more specific I have heard that there are a handful of donors ready to give $20 to $25 million for football. But Beggs thinks it will take closer to $100 million and really isn't interested in talking about it unless someone comes up for a plan for the other $75 to $80 million.

[JJClamdip]

Sub- I have heard the same things. In fact to be more specific I have heard that there are a handful of donors ready to give $20 to $25 million for football. But Beggs thinks it will take closer to $100 million and really isn't interested in talking about it unless someone comes up for a plan for the other $75 to $80 million.


And I know the tooth fairy.

Omahabound shock, take off the rose colored glasses, for the love of GOD, STOP IT!

There is no big money out there waiting to be spent on WSU football if there was it would have happened by now.

LEAVE IT ALONE, IT IS A HORSE THAT HAS BEEN BEATEN TO DEATH!

IT IS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN.

EVER!

[Dawgbit]

Who need college football when you have college bowling? I'll bet the homecoming tailgates in Wichita really get cookin' outside of that packed bowling alley!:bash:

[Carrcar]

Who need college football when you have college bowling? I'll bet the homecoming tailgates in Wichita really get cookin' outside of that packed bowling alley!:bash:
Don't knock bowling...it's supports the rest of WSU's sports. How can you complain about a sport that has a beer frame...jeez?!

[Dawgbit]

Don't knock bowling...it's supports the rest of WSU's sports. How can you complain about a sport that has a beer frame...jeez?!


Bowling is just so, so....well, you know what I mean.

Cool people do not bowl.

[MSNSaluki]

Stop the insanity ... please?:doh:

[Awesome Sauce Malone]

Beggs is smart about the economics of football. If it was going to be a winner for WSU, he would have already started it up. I-AA could happen, but it seems as if your fans have no interest in a I-AA squad. Shoot, you could raise your student fees and have enough money for football. I'd say $40 or $50 a semester for 18,000 students could cover it.

I can only speak for myself and maybe a small handful of Shocker fans but we would absolutely be thrilled with 1-aa

[SubGod22]

All I ask is that the University actually open it up to official research. There are a number of schools that have lesser budgets and potential support for funding that are adding or at least officially looking into it. WSU just says no and goes on their way. I think it could be done but we won't know until someone actually does take the time to find out what's out there. The reports I've heard sound promising and there's more out there. FCS football would be fine by me. Of course, I'd hope to one day move up but I'd be perfectly happy playing fellow Valley schools.

[DoubleJayAlum]

All I ask is that the University actually open it up to official research. There are a number of schools that have lesser budgets and potential support for funding that are adding or at least officially looking into it. WSU just says no and goes on their way. I think it could be done but we won't know until someone actually does take the time to find out what's out there. The reports I've heard sound promising and there's more out there. FCS football would be fine by me. Of course, I'd hope to one day move up but I'd be perfectly happy playing fellow Valley schools.

Maybe your AD is afraid to do the exploration because he thinks that once the issue is officially open, many people won't ever let it close again (regardless of the results of the exploratory committee).

For example, if the committee came back with a recommendation against FB, the proponents would just say that the committee failed to take this or that into account or made some other mistake. In other words the results may never be accepted and once the discussion starts, its tough to bring it to an end without adding FB.

Here in Omaha, UNO was considering going D1, went thru this entire process and many still do not accept the committee's report, because it wasn't in line with what they wanted. Instead of bringing the issue to a close, the committee's results only caused the issue to become even larger.

[SubGod22]

Hadn't thought about that. There definitely would be some that wouldn't let it die. If done, I think I could accept it. I might not be thrilled by the results but at least they would have given it a fair shot. I won't be completely happy until there's football, but I understand it'll take a lot of work. I just know there are a number of us that would just like to see the research done. Either way, the topic will never completely die. It's still a hot topic amongst a number of people. And will continue to be for some time. I talk to a number of people who don't particiapate on SN that bring it up almost every time I talk to them. Anyway, I see your point and could understand that. I'm not sure that's why they won't do it but.....

[MoValley John]

Who need college football when you have college bowling? I'll bet the homecoming tailgates in Wichita really get cookin' outside of that packed bowling alley!:bash:

Wichita State's bowling alley is owned, not rented.

[dakyne]

doublejay,

Interesting take on that--the ol' "damned if you do, damned if you don't".

If I was a WSU fan, I would want to see them do their due diligence before declaring it's not feasible, but I can see how it would open up a can of worms for people who are adamantly against it, for whatever fiscal reasons.

Football just seems like a natural extension of college life, especially for a university in a community of 600,000.

[MikeKennedyRulz]

Unless there is a T Boone Pickens out there that is a WSU grad and is ready to throw down $100M, it's not feasible and shouldn't happen. I am one of the ones who doesn't want it unless the money is there and it is D-1A. Neither of those are feasible right now so don't do it.

[Divergence]

doublejay,

If I was a WSU fan, I would want to see them do their due diligence before declaring it's not feasible.

It was already done by Jim Schaus some years ago and the requirements were layed out what it would take to bring football back.

All the football supporters need to do is step forward with their big checkbooks. But, the support has been "Flat".

[MSNSaluki]

Wichita State's bowling alley is owned, not rented.

Now THAT'S funny.:lol:

[WSUfan]

Wichita State's bowling alley is owned, not rented.
To quote a word from dakyne, "damned" right!! :lol:

[Aargh]

There were at least 2 studies done before Schaus got to WSU. Schaus did one when he got here. Another booster group did a study after Schaus' study.

All of them came up with gotta go D-1 and $50-100 mill in today's $$ to make it work.

The proponents of WSU FB don't remember the studies.

FB at WSU was never well-attended. There were brutal promotions, corporate sales and give-aways to sell out 30K seats the first year Cessna Stadium was built. By the 3rd year after CS was built, it was a struggle to put 15,000 people in there.

I was inadvertently at the last-ever FB game at WSU. I had a huge thermos of Jack Daniels and convinced 4 friends who lived just off campus (students or recent grads) to go with me to the game to share the JD.

[MSNSaluki]

I was inadvertently at the last-ever FB game at WSU. I had a huge thermos of Jack Daniels and convinced 4 friends who lived just off campus (students or recent grads) to go with me to the game to share the JD.

And you didn't call ME?
Bastard!:lol:

[Maggie]

As others have stated, while there will always be individuals in Wichita that want to see WSU revive its football program, I agree with the current administration that it is simply not economically feasible and is not even worth exploring.

I don't live in Wichita anymore, but I was raised there and I attended WSU in the early 90s. I remember going to a few WSU football games as child and as Aargh pointed out the stadium was not full. In my lifetime, Wichita has always been a basketball town. Even went I went to school, when the basketball program was terrible, attendance at games was generally around 6K to 7K (notably, most of those who attended were not students). Good numbers for a losing basketball team but not nearly enough for what will almost certainly be a losing football program – at least to start.

I just do not see the people in Wichita supporting the program in great enough numbers long term and I am skeptical about the support of the student body. I suspect that most of the people that want football back might feel inferior in some way to KU or KSU, whether they admit it or not.

[outpost]

I just do not see the people in Wichita supporting the program in great enough numbers long term and I am skeptical about the support of the student body. I suspect that most of the people that want football back might feel inferior in some way to KU or KSU, whether they admit it or not.

My wife and I have talked about it, and we would like to see it back, but purely because we miss the college FB experience. Butler Co. and Friends University just isn't the same to us, and we don't have ties to either.

We would support it if it were brought back, but we're realists when it comes to lack of major booster contributions. And I've got a well-grounded suspicion that the long-term cost of football would not equal the benefits in terms of increased enrollment, game revenues and ancillary royalties (concessions, game wear, post-season revenue, continued booster support, etc.).

In my opinion, WSU is at a serious geographic disadvantage due to Wichita's proximity to several Big XII campuses.

2 hours from Stillwater
2 hours from Manhattan
2 hours from Lawrence
2½-3 hours from Norman
3-3½ hours from Lincoln
4½-5 hours from Columbia

I don't personally feel a sense of inferiority, but with products out there that are better established, I recognize that its tough to compete on a long-term basis.

Football isn't anywhere on our horizon at WSU.

[BearsCountry]

First of all WSU needs to go take a look at Old Dominion. They are very similar to WSU and they are starting football up in 2009.

Personally I think if MSU starts to show a major improvement then the Shox might start to take a look more seriousally at it. Most of the arguments stem against us since we are the most similar school.

[Maggie]

I don't personally feel a sense of inferiority, but with products out there that are better established, I recognize that its tough to compete on a long-term basis.

Football isn't anywhere on our horizon at WSU.

I am glad you don't feel WSU is inferior. I don't think you should. Obviously, I was speculating and did not intend to disparage WSU fans that want to see football back. But I still think that "little man" syndrome might influence they way some people view this issue. It seems to me that these people do not put a lot of thought into what it takes to re-start and run a college football program.
A major problem is I don't think people in Wichita would support anything less than a D-1 program and even that is questionable. Furthermore, as you correctly pointed out there are several well established programs within easy driving distance of Wichita. In fact, I know a lot of people that have K-State and Oklahoma season tickets. Heck, my parents, despite both being WSU grads, have had KSU football season tickets ever since my sister went to school there ten years ago. The proximity of these established programs is a real issue.

I don't think football will ever, or should ever, be reinstituted at WSU. I would rather see those fundraising dollars go to support basketball, baseball, softball, golf and the rest of the sports at WSU.

[Shockerman]

And I know the tooth fairy.

Omahabound shock, take off the rose colored glasses, for the love of GOD, STOP IT!

There is no big money out there waiting to be spent on WSU football if there was it would have happened by now.

LEAVE IT ALONE, IT IS A HORSE THAT HAS BEEN BEATEN TO DEATH!

IT IS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN.

EVER!

You should not speak of things that you do not know about. I know for a fact that two donors came forward during the Mayors push for Football. Between the two of them they had 10
million dollars to donate. The plan was to name the field after them. The AD was on board and Beggs shot it down.
ODU will be starting Football in 2009 with an original gift of 5 million. To say that we can't do it is a falacy. Most Shocker fans are in favor of Football, it is the old school vocal minority that is not. I am glad you were not around when WSU started up its baseball program again.

[dakyne]

Good discussion. My inkling is that most people sell themselves short. Bringing football back to WSU would entail a huge effort by many parties, but to say it can't be done is selling Wichita short, imo. Diffiicult--but not impossible. Much bigger projects have been initiated and successfully completed. A town of 600,000 has potential, much more so than a town of 25,000, for example.

Aargh, thanks for the data--kinda what a lot of us were looking for.

Kinda makes us SIU fans feel more grateful, as there is a minority that wants to kabosh SIU football, believing it drains SIU of funds better directed toward other athletics programs. Thankfully, the football-haters are in the minority. The balance sheet may prove these football-naysayers correct, but they are missing the intrinsic value of having a football program.

[dakyne]

For comparison's sake, the perfect storm occurred over the weekend for SIU football.

It was homecoming for an undefeated SIU team, and visiting Youngstown was the defending Gateway champion last year, with only one loss to Ohio St. coming in. SIU was ranked 6th and YSU 10th in the formerly 1AA division.

The game was hyped, tailgating encouraged, advertising, etc....the weather was perfect.

They managed to attract a homecrowd of over 13,000. So consider that figure the ceiling (not sure what McAndrew Stadium's capacity is--probably around 16,000).

Otherwise, SIU is lucky to average 10,000. At these attendance levels, SIU football is probably a money-loser.

[C0|db|00ded]

Holy S. Dakyne! Are you trying to make up for lost time? Take a breath every now and then and give the fingers a break. You're starting to make our local blowhard Dawgie look like a mute. Every time I check this forum your name is always appended to the end of every thread... :shutup:


T


...:cool:

[shocker3]

You should not speak of things that you do not know about. I know for a fact that two donors came forward during the Mayors push for Football. Between the two of them they had 10
million dollars to donate. The plan was to name the field after them. The AD was on board and Beggs shot it down.
ODU will be starting Football in 2009 with an original gift of 5 million. To say that we can't do it is a falacy. Most Shocker fans are in favor of Football, it is the old school vocal minority that is not. I am glad you were not around when WSU started up its baseball program again.


I have had conversations with people who would know that concur with your comments that there was at least $10 million sitting on the table ready to be given to re-start football at WSU during our former Mayor's tenure.

I think football has tremondous intrinsic value that isn't being calculated when people talk about it losing money.

Virtually all college sports lose money (basketball, sometimes baseball and hockey are the only other potential money makers besides football) But sports like Track and Tennis just can't bring the publicity, donors and increased booster support that football can bring.

Personally I believe that football is worth the investment. And many other schools with lesser fanbases are thinking the same way. In recent years we have seen schools like Troy St and Old Dominion start football from scratch.

I believe it can be done at WSU. It is whether or not we have the will to do it. Our current President does not.

And as you can see from some of the posters on this board that there are some very good WSU supporters who concur with him.

I do not.

[DawgieStyle]

blowhard Dawgie.


pot meet kettle.

[outpost]

Virtually all college sports lose money (basketball, sometimes baseball and hockey are the only other potential money makers besides football) But sports like Track and Tennis just can't bring the publicity, donors and increased booster support that football can bring.

But soccer is poised to make money up at CU. BIG money, "BIGGER than Mangino" money. Attendance is skyrocketing at CU soccer games. :innocent:

Someone told me that recently.

[MikeKennedyRulz]

I have had conversations with people who would know that concur with your comments that there was at least $10 million sitting on the table ready to be given to re-start football at WSU during our former Mayor's tenure.

I think football has tremondous intrinsic value that isn't being calculated when people talk about it losing money.

Virtually all college sports lose money (basketball, sometimes baseball and hockey are the only other potential money makers besides football) But sports like Track and Tennis just can't bring the publicity, donors and increased booster support that football can bring.

Personally I believe that football is worth the investment. And many other schools with lesser fanbases are thinking the same way. In recent years we have seen schools like Troy St and Old Dominion start football from scratch.

I believe it can be done at WSU. It is whether or not we have the will to do it. Our current President does not.

And as you can see from some of the posters on this board that there are some very good WSU supporters who concur with him.

I do not.

Just like when the mayor spouted off, people claimed they knew for a fact that two "donors" were ready to pony up the money. But, they have know facts to back this up. They won't name the donors and these supposed donors never stepped forward. They accused Beggs of turning down the money but when pressed to prove it they couldn't. I think most, not all, of the proponents of football at WSU are so blinded by the fact that they want football at WSU they can't see the facts clearly. It would put a strain on the entire budget and it would do it quickly, unless someone has a spare $100 Million laying around. It simply is not feasible and, as has been mentioned, recent studies have reported as much. I suggest one of the proponents start a campaign to get 1,000,000 people to each donate $100, then we can have a discussion about it.

[DoubleJayAlum]

But soccer is poised to make money up at CU. BIG money, "BIGGER than Mangino" money. Attendance is skyrocketing at CU soccer games. :innocent:

Someone told me that recently.

And the obsession and jealousy continues. :banghead::bash:

[Ricky Del Rio]

I have had conversations with people who would know that concur with your comments that there was at least $10 million sitting on the table ready to be given to re-start football at WSU during our former Mayor's tenure.

I think football has tremondous intrinsic value that isn't being calculated when people talk about it losing money.

Virtually all college sports lose money (basketball, sometimes baseball and hockey are the only other potential money makers besides football) But sports like Track and Tennis just can't bring the publicity, donors and increased booster support that football can bring.

Personally I believe that football is worth the investment. And many other schools with lesser fanbases are thinking the same way. In recent years we have seen schools like Troy St and Old Dominion start football from scratch.

I believe it can be done at WSU. It is whether or not we have the will to do it. Our current President does not.

And as you can see from some of the posters on this board that there are some very good WSU supporters who concur with him.

I do not.

To underwrite start-up and future operating losses, it takes at least $50 million in the bank.

Major fund raising for football will decrease fund raising for the other sports.

I do not subscribe to the notion that the synergy of a football program will cause an increase in fund raising for other sports.

[iSASO]

There is no $50 million for FCS football moving to BCS football in 5 years.

There is no crowd of 15,000 willing to pay to watch a team go 0-11 for the first three years and 1-10 for the next three years.

Unless there was Bill Parcells, returning to his alma mater. How about a return engagement for Jimmie Johnson...now that might shake a few money trees!

[Aargh]

The Stones drew about 30,000 to Cessna Stadium. Let me describe the parking situation.

We parked in a huge empty grass lot about 3 miles from WSU. Walked between 1/4 and 1/2 mile to get to the shuttle bus. Waited in line 1/2 hour to get on the shuttle bus. Walked another 1/4 mile to the stadium from where the bus dropped us off.

After the concert we waited close to 2 hours to get on the shuttle bus. We were slow because there was one among us with a bum ankle.

Even with 15,000 to 20,000 at a WSU FB game, there are going to be similar problems. Those people are unlikely to continue attending.

Basketball pretty much maxes out "convenient" parking at WSU. The trend in the last 20 years of increasing class space and building new buildings has wiped out every inch of parking expansion.

It's so unfortunate the administrations over the last 20 years couldn't see the inevitable return of FB and the need for parking. In their short-sightedness, they built academic infrastructure over all the places those FB fans would need for parking.

Tell the big $$ anonymous and unknown donors that their $10 mill will first be used to pave over half the golf course for parking and see how long that money stays on the table.

Big $$ donors and paving golf courses are about as compatible as an "Eat More Beef" campaign to feed starving people in India.

[JJClamdip]

The Stones drew about 30,000 to Cessna Stadium. Let me describe the parking situation.

We parked in a huge empty grass lot about 3 miles from WSU. Walked between 1/4 and 1/2 mile to get to the shuttle bus. Waited in line 1/2 hour to get on the shuttle bus. Walked another 1/4 mile to the stadium from where the bus dropped us off.

You were one of the people that bought into the hype of no parking.

There were empty spots just south of the stadium during the concert.

We pulled up about an hour before drove right in and parked.

Very easy.

[SubGod22]

Are people so lazy that they can't walk more than 1/10 of a mile to an event? It's a sad really. I've walked clear across campus for basketball and it's really not that bad. I've tagged along to KSU and KU football games with friends in the past and walked for what seemed forever. No big deal. A nice stoll on a saturday afternoon would do a lot of people some good.

[outpost]

And the obsession and jealousy continues. :banghead::bash:

I'm not obsessed.....I'm a victim of brainwashing.

[RoyalShock]

It's a small sampling size, I know. But I put a new poll up on ShockerNet (one was done last year, too) about a week ago. There were several different funding options presented.

Overall, 81% of respondents want football back at WSU. 38% of those wanting it, want all additional scholarships (men and women) endowed, with NO increase in student fees, which IMO will not happen. Raising student fees is the only realistic way to underwrite operational losses.

The poll I took last year (which had triple the number of votes) also indicated 80+% support for the return of football.

Of course, very few of those voters, if any, are the ones who might write big checks.

[JJClamdip]

Of course, very few of those voters, if any, are the ones who might write big checks.

BINGO!

[BearsCountry]

Where in the heck do you guys get a 100 million figure? Stadium renovations I can see a little chunk of that, 30 tops to get Cessna fixed up. The rest where? Endowed scholarships, which isnt reasonable.

[outpost]

Bears...don't forget about getting the coaching staff in place.

It's gonna take some serious coin to lure Jimmy Johnson (or insert name here) away from his plush desk job at FOX Sports and convince him to stand on the sideline. And his staff. For several years.

And IMHO we'll need to hire some additional compliance staffers, because I DON'T WANT TO SEE WSU BACK ON PROBATION DUE TO LACK OF INTERNAL CONTROLS.

I'm sure we're all missing something else that would help consume some booster money....and remember that we're talking about building an on-going program.

[Mc Bulldog]

Custody Case -

Wichita, KS (AP) - A seven-year-old boy was at the center of a Sedgwick County courtroom drama today when he challenged a court ruling over who should have custody of him. The boy has a history of being beaten by his parents and the judge initially awarded custody to his aunt, in keeping with child custody law and regulation requiring that family unity be maintained to the highest degree possible. The boy surprised the court when he proclaimed that his aunt beat him more than his parents and he adamantly refused to live with her. When the judge then suggested that he live with his grandparents, the boy cried and said that they also beat him. After considering the remainder of the immediate family and learning that domestic violence was apparently a way of life among them, the judge took the unprecedented step of allowing the boy to propose who should have custody of him. After two recesses to check legal references and confer with the child welfare officials, the judge granted temporary custody to the Wichita State Shocker football team, whom the boy firmly believes are not capable of beating anyone!

[Cdizzle]

Custody Case -

Wichita, KS (AP) - A seven-year-old boy was at the center of a Sedgwick County courtroom drama today when he challenged a court ruling over who should have custody of him. The boy has a history of being beaten by his parents and the judge initially awarded custody to his aunt, in keeping with child custody law and regulation requiring that family unity be maintained to the highest degree possible. The boy surprised the court when he proclaimed that his aunt beat him more than his parents and he adamantly refused to live with her. When the judge then suggested that he live with his grandparents, the boy cried and said that they also beat him. After considering the remainder of the immediate family and learning that domestic violence was apparently a way of life among them, the judge took the unprecedented step of allowing the boy to propose who should have custody of him. After two recesses to check legal references and confer with the child welfare officials, the judge granted temporary custody to the Wichita State Shocker football team, whom the boy firmly believes are not capable of beating anyone!

a little morbid....but not bad. :lol:
:valley:

[RoyalShock]

Where in the heck do you guys get a 100 million figure? Stadium renovations I can see a little chunk of that, 30 tops to get Cessna fixed up. The rest where? Endowed scholarships, which isnt reasonable.

Besides what has already been listed, a good chunk of that figure is probably to "endow" enough money to cover yearly operational losses, instead of raising student fees. Personally, I think that is what will prevent football from ever returning. Students won't go for increased fees and the amount of up-front money needed for said "insurance" is probably too much after money has been raised for everything else (scholarships, salaries, equipment, facility improvements, etc.)

And while you say endowing scholarships isn't reasonable, my understanding is that there is already an effort underway to do just that.

[dakyne]

McBulldog,

Hilarious--you had me going for a while...alas, I should have known better, ya prack..."prack"--DUBulldog's lingo, right?:lol:

[Aargh]

If FB comes back to WSU, it needs to be D1 for community support.

Cessna Stadium isn't big enough to support a D1 program, so it not only needs a complete rehab, it needs to grow another 20K seats. Parking needs to be provided. More training and conditioning facilities need to be built.

To do FB right, the list just keeps on going. Might even need a new dorm for athletes.

WSU has a lot of modern well-maintained facilities for athletics. FB would need to duplicate that. It could be difficult to recruit FB players if their facilities weren't at least as nice as the facilities for other sports.

It's kind of a "do it right, or don't do it at all" situation. Doing it right is incredibly expensive.

Then there's the nightmare probability of a nice, totally rehabbed FB stadium that seats 50K and has 8,000 people in it. It would look like an MSU baseball game at Hammons Field.

[iSASO]

Let's not forget about the financing of scholarships to satisfy Title IX.

Here's another bottom-line consideration:

Assuming AD Jim Schaus wants to move to a bigger job at a BCS football school, he probably needs to have more football on his resume. How powerful would your resume be if you single-handedly resurrected a football program and took it to the D-1A BCS level while maintaining the quality of the other programs?

Maybe, as incredible as he is, he knows that he would fail at it. Maybe he knows the deck is stacked too high against him. Maybe he knows it's just not worth it.

[Aargh]

Maybe Beggs knows that if he brought FB back and failed (killed athletic department budget and strained resources) it would be a huge negative to the positive legacies he and Schaus are establishing.

If Beggs brought FB back and it succeeded, he'd lose the best AD WSU has probably ever had.

There are lose-lose elements for Beggs bringing FB back.

Beggs came from SIU. He probably saw what FB was doing to the budget there.

[dakyne]

I think the last two posts characterize a couple very plausible scenarios and motivations. Which is self-preservation by the leaders at WSU...they're protecting their turf, sort to speak...

[MoValley John]

sentimentally, I think just about everybody would want a football team on their campus. In reality, it's a tough sell, not just to get it up and running, but to keep it viable. It's like the long awaited Wichita theme park; thrilling to envision, great to talk about and a tangible attraction to make you think that your city has arrived.

In reality, the roller coaster sucks, some of the rides never get completed, people don't show up and the park closes down leaving behind a pile of broken dreams and empty wallets.

[Mc Bulldog]

http://www.adventureland-usa.com/

[MoValley John]

http://www.adventureland-usa.com/

Check out the Wild West World website:

http://www.wildwestworld.org/

[MoValley John]

Can you imagine the Wichita State athletic department writing a letter like this:

A Kansas Dream
In early 2005, my wife, Cheryl, and I had a dream for South Central Kansas families. The dream was to build a family theme park in Park City Kansas, 4 miles north of Wichita. The focus would be on the family. We wanted to create a wonderful place where families could come and enjoy themselves, free of today’s normal pressures. A theme park of this magnitude had never been built before in Kansas.

We spent many hours in prayer over this dream and consulted many industry leaders, friends and confidants before committing to see this dream come to pass. After making the decision to proceed, we commissioned an economic study by a major California consulting firm to verify that the idea was viable. Throughout 2005 and 2006, we traveled worldwide, meeting with industry leaders and major financing groups. They verified to us that our idea seemed viable and promising. Local and national corporations would also make their commitment to the idea of a theme park in Kansas.

By 2006, all major financing was in place. Banks and financing groups from throughout Kansas and around the world committed to the Wichita and greater South Central Kansas area as Wild West World began to take shape from a flat Kansas wheat field. To make the dream of Wild West World come to pass, we mortgaged our home, ranch and the land where we operate our 8 year old business, the Prairie Rose Chuckwagon Supper. We also invested millions of dollars in personal cash savings. Nearly every dollar and every asset we owned was pledged to bring to pass our dream of a family theme park in Kansas.

Throughout 2005, 2006 and 2007 we often worked 20 hours a day, sometimes sleeping in the office at the park at night. We did not take a paycheck from Wild West World, nor did we take a development fee. And we had no time off and no letup from the daily pressures for 3 years.
On May 1st 2007 we opened Wild West World to the media, just as we had promised, even though we did it in the rain. On May 5th the public was invited to Wild West World’s Grand Opening just as promised…but again the rain would pour down. On Grand Opening Day the community wasn’t in a theme park mood. The entire State was in shock as a result of the catastrophic Greensburg tornado the night before that wiped a nearby community literally off the map.

And as we all know the rain continued in May and June. Over the course of May, June and early July 2007, almost 50 days would experience rain, storms or overcast days. Independence Day, July 4th, ended in torrential rains. Flooding covered Kansas, Oklahoma and Texas throughout June and early July. We built the park as we said, but the weather and lack of cash flow have made it impossible for us to keep it open. It pains us to reach this point, but we have to close the park and find a buyer who can reopen and run it. We hate to do it, but we don’t see any other alternative.

On July 9th, Wild West World, LLC filed a voluntary Chapter 11 corporate bankruptcy primarily due to the extremely poor attendance and lack of cash flow caused by the continual rain and storms, and unanticipated cost overruns in constructing the park. Every effort has been made to pay our employees in full for work to date. We will eventually list thousands of creditors in our bankruptcy schedules that will be filed with the Bankruptcy Court within the next couple of weeks. These creditors will range from banks that are owed millions of dollars; ride manufacturers who are owed hundreds of thousands of dollars; vendors who supplied food and other merchandise to the park, and season ticket holders who paid $50 for their season passes, just to mention a few categories.

Because of the possibility that conflicting claims may be asserted against our personal as well as corporate assets that have been pledged as collateral to our numerous creditors, our company’s bankruptcy attorneys have instructed us to save further comments to the papers that will be filed with the bankruptcy court and our testimony that may be required in bankruptcy court proceedings.

I wish to assure you that we are focused on finding a corporate buyer for Wild West World, a buyer with deeper pockets. Discussions are currently ongoing with the hope of finding a buyer who would purchase Wild West World and reopen this great park as soon as possible. No timeline is available at this time. Without a buyer, Wild West World Theme Park will not reopen. But no matter what, we will press on…for Wild West World represented to the Etheredge family literally their entire heart and soul…it represented a Kansas dream.

I realize some of you may have some follow-up questions about the status of our situation. But, this is too emotional a time for me and Cheryl to elaborate further on the events that led up to today’s bankruptcy filing.
Right now, the most important thing for everyone involved is for me to find a buyer who can reopen Wild West World as soon as possible and that is just what I intend to do.

Thomas Etheredge
CEO
Wild West World, LLC
Park City, Kansas

[Aargh]

Check out the Wild West World website:

http://www.wildwestworld.org/

.org?

.org???

.org is supposed to be a non-profit. Wild West World certainly achieved that!

Poorly conceived, poorly planned, poorly executed. A theme park in a wheat field? No trees, no shade, no terrain features, no roller coaster, a bunch of kiddy rides and a replica of an 1860's city.

Oh, and a developer with a felony conviction for securities fraud. What could possibly go wrong?

[shockball]

Has anybody figured out who is posting under McBulldog's name? That was clever. LMAO

[MoValley John]

.org?

.org???

.org is supposed to be a non-profit. Wild West World certainly achieved that!

Poorly conceived, poorly planned, poorly executed. A theme park in a wheat field? No trees, no shade, no terrain features, no roller coaster, a bunch of kiddy rides and a replica of an 1860's city.

Oh, and a developer with a felony conviction for securities fraud. What could possibly go wrong?

Just about everybody in Wichita was excited when the park was announced. Few questioned anything at the beginning. I guess if anyone, most notably the bankers, had thought about contingency funds when they began, the park either wouldn't have been built or would still be open and nobody would care about a petty secrities fraud conviction.

When you think about the football program, you also have to think along these lines. Contingency funds, along with all the other costs are astronomical. $100 million may be just about what it takes to start up a football program. If Charles will give you the money, go for it, otherwise, put this idea to bed.

[iSASO]

Chuckie Koch's brother and NY resident, David, should have given the $110 million he gave to his alma mater, MIT, to startup a WSU football program instead.

What was he thinking?

[MoValley John]

There doesn't need to be a football debate, there only needs to be one question asked to one person: "Charles, will you give $100 million to the University to startup football?" However he answers ends the debate. You just saved yourself tons of time and money on a feasibility study. If he says yes, I guess you change the name of the football complex to Cessna Field at Charles Koch Stadium.

[WSUfan]

Custody Case -

Wichita, KS (AP) - A seven-year-old boy was at the center of a Sedgwick County courtroom drama today when he challenged a court ruling over who should have custody of him. The boy has a history of being beaten by his parents and the judge initially awarded custody to his aunt, in keeping with child custody law and regulation requiring that family unity be maintained to the highest degree possible. The boy surprised the court when he proclaimed that his aunt beat him more than his parents and he adamantly refused to live with her. When the judge then suggested that he live with his grandparents, the boy cried and said that they also beat him. After considering the remainder of the immediate family and learning that domestic violence was apparently a way of life among them, the judge took the unprecedented step of allowing the boy to propose who should have custody of him. After two recesses to check legal references and confer with the child welfare officials, the judge granted temporary custody to the Wichita State Shocker football team, whom the boy firmly believes are not capable of beating anyone!

How could anyone dislike Drake fans? They still have a sense of humor to go along with their success in Valley basketball. :wink_kiss::hug::flowers::cheers::laughing:

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

[Chairman of the Boards]

There doesn't need to be a football debate, there only needs to be one question asked to one person: "Charles, will you give $100 million to the University to startup football?" However he answers ends the debate. You just saved yourself tons of time and money on a feasibility study. If he says yes, I guess you change the name of the football complex to Cessna Field at Charles Koch Stadium.

Yep, I agree 100% with Mo... Without Chuck, you're ******!

:innocent:

[DoubleJayAlum]

There doesn't need to be a football debate, there only needs to be one question asked to one person: "Charles, will you give $100 million to the University to startup football?" However he answers ends the debate. You just saved yourself tons of time and money on a feasibility study. If he says yes, I guess you change the name of the football complex to Cessna Field at Charles Koch Stadium.

Maybe that question has already been asked.

[WuDrWu]

Nope.

[MikeKennedyRulz]

Just about everybody in Wichita was excited when the park was announced. Few questioned anything at the beginning. I guess if anyone, most notably the bankers, had thought about contingency funds when they began, the park either wouldn't have been built or would still be open and nobody would care about a petty secrities fraud conviction.

When you think about the football program, you also have to think along these lines. Contingency funds, along with all the other costs are astronomical. $100 million may be just about what it takes to start up a football program. If Charles will give you the money, go for it, otherwise, put this idea to bed.

I live in Wichita and alot of people were skeptical and not excited about the park. Anyone with a brain could see that it was poorly planned and I haven't talked to anybody who is surprised it failed. Surprised it failed so quickly maybe, but not surprised it failed. And as far as the bankers, I work in banking in wichita and trust me Slick Tom approached every bank in Wichita about the park and they all told him no because they knew of his past and knew it wouldn't work. He had to find a bank in rural KS that took on the loan and sold pieces of it to other banks (none in Wichita). He had to go to Europe to find some of the financing. THe place was doomed and he made no contingencies for weather (aka indoor attractions). Not to mention a western themed park is one of the worst possible ideas to market and he micro-managed everything and ran all of his executive staff off. The State of KS and the FBI have been looking into the financing of the park and SLick Tom and I wouldn't be a bit surprised if he was doing something illegal.

[NoPlaceLikeDome]

So are Wichita State fans excited for the big game on Saturday?

#6 SIU heads to the Dome to face #2 UNI on Homecoming.

I sure am! :panthers:

P.S.- You guys are missing out.

[shocker3]

So are Wichita State fans excited for the big game on Saturday?

#6 SIU heads to the Dome to face #2 UNI on Homecoming.

I sure am! :panthers:

P.S.- You guys are missing out.


On Saturday afternoon at 2pm I will be at Eck stadium watching game 6 of the Shocker World Series.

It would be nice if there was also a Shocker football game to go to Saturday night, but for now Shocker baseball more than fills the bill.

[MSNSaluki]

On Saturday afternoon at 2pm I will be at Eck stadium watching game 6 of the Shocker World Series.

It would be nice if there was also a Shocker football game to go to Saturday night, but for now Shocker baseball more than fills the bill.

The SIU/UNI game doesn't start until 4:05 p.m.:grin:

[BearsCountry]

On Saturday afternoon at 2pm I will be at Eck stadium watching game 6 of the Shocker World Series.

It would be nice if there was also a Shocker football game to go to Saturday night, but for now Shocker baseball more than fills the bill.

Hopefully in my lifetime a :bears: vs. :shockers: football game takes place.

[iSASO]

90% of Shocker fans don't care to ever see a WSU / MSU football game.

[SubGod22]

I think the poll on SN states otherwise. It's essentially 50/50 last I looked. I think last years poll was a landslide in favor of football. Hopefully, some day, it'll happen.

[MikeKennedyRulz]

So are Wichita State fans excited for the big game on Saturday?

#6 SIU heads to the Dome to face #2 UNI on Homecoming.

I sure am! :panthers:

P.S.- You guys are missing out.

Nah, I'm not missing out. I got my fill of mediocre football last night with a Wichita City League high school game. Have fun though.

[RoyalShock]

I think the poll on SN states otherwise. It's essentially 50/50 last I looked. I think last years poll was a landslide in favor of football. Hopefully, some day, it'll happen.

That depends on how you count one of the options. If you count the one that says yes, but endow all scholarships and don't increase student fees as a no vote, it's rougly 50/50. If you count it as a yes vote, it's closer to 75/25.

But I think what ISASO is saying is that 90% don't want to see WSU face a FCS team, that they want FBS or nothing.

[JJClamdip]

These morons on here (with the exception of my good friend Shocer3) pushing for WSU football do not have a clue.

They are all wearing rose colored glass.

ROSE-COLORED GLASSES - "Some unfortunate people never take their rose-colored glasses off, but everyone wears these spectacles occasionally. This attitude of cheerful optimism, of seeing everything in an attractive, pleasant light, has always been with us, while the expression itself goes back to at least 1861, when it is first recorded in 'Tom Brown at Oxford': 'Oxford was a sort of Utopia to the Captain.He continued to behold towers, and quadrangles, and chapels, through rose-colored glasses."

Yes, Wichita State, kind of the Oxford of the plains to these football pushing dorks.

So what if there was ten million committed to the restart of football by some buddies of Carlos Mayans.

That and about ten times more are needed.

None of these vocal supporters on this site are going to write the big check that it takes, hell they don’t have enough money between them to write a little check.

If Jim $chau$ thought that there was anyway he could get the program reinstated he would get it done. The main reason would be to further his career.

Think about it $chau$ has done a great job with the athletic department since taking over but he is at a dead end. He cannot go to a big time BCS type school because he has not directed a DI football program. He is going to have to make a lateral move to a school with football, run it successfully and then move on.

He would move heaven and earth to get it started again at Wichita State if he could.

[NoPlaceLikeDome]

Nah, I'm not missing out. I got my fill of mediocre football last night with a Wichita City League high school game. Have fun though.

C'mon, I'm sure you liked to know what it feels like to beat Kansas or Kansas State in the biggest of college sports.

UNI sure knows the feeling (ISU this year, and we beat K-State three years back in the late 80s)

[Divergence]

C'mon, I'm sure you liked to know what it feels like to beat Kansas or Kansas State in the biggest of college sports.

There are some of Shocker fans who have been around when this did in fact happen (Beat K-State).

Unfortunately, we also remember the Moorhead State's of the world where WSU would be ahead at half by 33-0 and lose.


UNI sure knows the feeling (ISU this year, and we beat K-State three years back in the late 80s)

In the late 80's, K-State was in the Abyss.

[Cdizzle]

In the late 80's, K-State was in the Abyss.

The same is true for the current ISU team.

[Aargh]

In the late 80's, K-State was in the Abyss.

The first year WSU did not have football, one national publication put WSU ABOVE KSU in its rankings.

All you had to do to beat KSU back then was get them on the schedule.

[NewEra]

[QUOTE=MoValley John;102418]Just about everybody in Wichita was excited when the park was announced. QUOTE]

WTF? everybody I knew except for my sap of a brother (who bought season tickets, as he has two young girls) laughed at the idea. You just kinda talk out of your azz sometimes.

[MoValley John]

It was reported that several million $ in season passes were sold. It was hardly a number that was generated in a city full of doubters. If you would like, I would be glad to research and report a more exact figure and list sources.

[Mecha_Bulldog]

http://www.adventureland-usa.com/

Is Des Moines the only MVC city with an amusement park nearby?

[iSASO]

C'mon, I'm sure you liked to know what it feels like to beat Kansas or Kansas State in the biggest of college sports.

UNI sure knows the feeling (ISU this year, and we beat K-State three years back in the late 80s)

What is UNI's record as a D1-A program?

[MikeKennedyRulz]

Is Des Moines the only MVC city with an amusement park nearby?

Does McBulldog's mom's house count?

[NoPlaceLikeDome]

What is UNI's record as a D1-A program?

UNI has never had a Division I-A program.

From 1937-1972 UNI competed in the NCAA Small College Division. From 1973-1980 they were Division II.

From 1981 on, UNI has been Division I-AA with a I-AA record of 218-99. In the past 20 years they have won 12 Gateway Conference titles, gone to the I-AA play-offs 12 times, and competed in the I-AA National Title. They are currently ranked #1 in the nation with a perfect 6-0 record.

UNI is a perennial I-AA football powerhouse. I realize most Wichita State fans couldn't care less about I-AA football, but if you took the time to see, it's actually a great place to be. It's fun, exciting football, with a great post season and you don't have to spend the tens of millions of dollars every year. It's not the "sucky" Division II type football people think.

I'll get off the soap box now, haha...

[BearsCountry]

Is Des Moines the only MVC city with an amusement park nearby?

We got Branson which is 30 minutes away and they have one.

[Aargh]

If WSU had maintained a FB program, Wichita fans would be accustomed to playing FCS (or whatever it's called now) teams.

Without the maintenance of a FB program Wichita fans are now unaware of the teams that play in FCS. It would be difficult to cultivate community support for playing teams they were unaware had FB programs.

In a strange unraveling of events, Lew Perkins was the AD at WSU when FB was dropped. Some long-time fans (myself included) felt that Perkins was either unable to get along in the community well enough or work hard enough to raise the money to maintain FB at WSU.

Perkins is now the AD at KU, which is ranked in the top-20 and #13 in the BCS. KU's previous AD took money that Roy Williams raised for BB and re-allocated it to FB to keep the FB program alive. That's part of the reason Williams left and KU's previous AD got fired.

With Williams gone, Perkins has been able to continue using donations from KU BB and spend them on FB.

It's only KU's BB that is keeping KU FB alive.

In case you can't tell, I really don't like Lew Perkins.

Oh, and Mark Mangino likes cupcakes. He REALLY likes cupcakes.

[BearsCountry]

So basically I-A (FBS) football is the only one that Wichita State would want? Now with the rumors flying from Illinois State about moving up and Missouri State is starting to make moves for that as well, would that make something happen down in Wichita?

[iSASO]

It just might. There is a nationally-dominant JUCO football program 25 mintures down the road at Butler County, but no one pays much mind to them. Fort Hays State and Pitt State, 2.5 hours away, plays D3 football and has been very good for years but they aren't on the radar either. NAIA or Division 2 football within the Wichita city limits gets no run no matter how good they are.

I suspect that 40% of WSU fans know that the Gateway Conference exists and that 5% can name all the teams. Further, I suspect that 10% of all people in Kansas know the Gateway Conference exists and an unmentionably low number can name the teams.

Even though WSU was rarely good at the D1-A level, that seems to be the only level that strikes a small spark of interest but the reality of losing millions of dollars, Title IX issues and the prospect of going 0-11 for the first 5 years quickly extinguishes that spark.

Maybe Illinois State and Mo State can build up their programs into a Nebraska and OU of the old Big 8 days so that WSU can live off of them like KU and K-State did to finance their programs for entire decades while they sucked.

Good luck.

[MoValley John]

It just might. There is a nationally-dominant JUCO football program 25 mintures down the road at Butler County, but no one pays much mind to them. Fort Hays State and Pitt State, 2.5 hours away, plays D3 football and has been very good for years but they aren't on the radar either. NAIA or Division 2 football within the Wichita city limits gets no run no matter how good they are.

I suspect that 40% of WSU fans know that the Gateway Conference exists and that 5% can name all the teams. Further, I suspect that 10% of all people in Kansas know the Gateway Conference exists and an unmentionably low number can name the teams.

Even though WSU was rarely good at the D1-A level, that seems to be the only level that strikes a small spark of interest but the reality of losing millions of dollars, Title IX issues and the prospect of going 0-11 for the first 5 years quickly extinguishes that spark.

Maybe Illinois State and Mo State can build up their programs into a Nebraska and OU of the old Big 8 days so that WSU can live off of them like KU and K-State did to finance their programs for entire decades while they sucked.

Good luck.


For the love of God, somebody gets it!!!! 1-AA football is irrelevant. D-2 is beyond irrelevant and nobody wants to see a bad team play, regardless if it's D-1.

UNO is like ranked in the top 5 of D-2, could probably beat a few Gateway teams and nobody in Omaha really cares. Why? Because they are irrelevant!

Actually, I wouldn't mind going to a UNO game, but I have lawn work to do. If I get the lawn work done, it's naptime!

[outpost]

C'mon, I'm sure you liked to know what it feels like to beat Kansas or Kansas State in the biggest of college sports.

UNI sure knows the feeling (ISU this year, and we beat K-State three years back in the late 80s)

We're not allowed to talk about ancient history here. :chair:

[NoPlaceLikeDome]

No offense, but what makes Illinois State and Missouri State think they can move up?

And why would you guys want to? The second you move up, that is when you leave the MVC and do you want that?

[Shockerman]

It just might. There is a nationally-dominant JUCO football program 25 mintures down the road at Butler County, but no one pays much mind to them.

I think that you mean that you don't pay attention to them. For a Juco team, they have a pretty good fanbase.

Fort Hays State and Pitt State, 2.5 hours away, plays D3 football and has been very good for years but they aren't on the radar either.

Fort Hays State and Pitt State are Divison II, not Divison III. You have obviously never been to a Pitt State game, it is real football, real tailgating and a lot of fun. They have great tradition and great fans.

NAIA or Division 2 football within the Wichita city limits gets no run no matter how good they are.

There is no Division II Football program in Wichita, and you are right about Friends, they are a joke.

I suspect that 40% of WSU fans know that the Gateway Conference exists and that 5% can name all the teams. Further, I suspect that 10% of all people in Kansas know the Gateway Conference exists and an unmentionably low number can name the teams.

I wonder how many WSU fans paid attention to Valley Baseball before we fielded a team. That seems to have worked out for us pretty well don't you think. I can only imagine what you would have said about adding a Baseball team back then.

After reading your post it is obvious that you are not a college football fan so please don't try and portray yourself as a knowledgable fan who can explain why "Divison II" Football won't work at WSU. The division that the Gateway plays in is the FCS. (Football championship Subdivision) KU and K-State play in the FBS (Football Bowl Subdivision) Both are DI.

[MSNSaluki]

Dead horse alert!!!!

[BEARNUT]

I think that you mean that you don't pay attention to them. For a Juco team, they have a pretty good fanbase.



Fort Hays State and Pitt State are Divison II, not Divison III. You have obviously never been to a Pitt State game, it is real football, real tailgating and a lot of fun. They have great tradition and great fans.



There is no Division II Football program in Wichita, and you are right about Friends, they are a joke.



I wonder how many WSU fans paid attention to Valley Baseball before we fielded a team. That seems to have worked out for us pretty well don't you think. I can only imagine what you would have said about adding a Baseball team back then.

After reading your post it is obvious that you are not a college football fan so please don't try and portray yourself as a knowledgable fan who can explain why "Divison II" Football won't work at WSU. The division that the Gateway plays in is the FCS. (Football championship Subdivision) KU and K-State play in the FBS (Football Bowl Subdivision) Both are DI.


Can you say........owned. Good points, every single one of them, now I'm gone for a few days and I have to come back to see that this thread will not die. Thanks.

[iSASO]

This all comes back to the original point that there is no real grassroots support for WSU football and no real financial backing to raise it from the dead.

Not that many care about WSU football or the Gateway Conference.

There is no group of 15,000 people who will pay to watch multiple 0-11 seasons. Very few people around Wichita will pay to watch anything less than FBS football, unless you're going to show me that Butler draws 15,000 per game.

And I would have been in favor of baseball, mainly because it is baseball. It is a little disturbing that someone believes they know my mind better than I do, though.

[shocky]

I know this is a little old (2002), but a good read. This was also posted on SN. My thoughts are below the article.


Div. I-A coaching pioneer Jeffries has only one regret
COMMENTARY: FOOTBALL: THE BIG PICTURE

By DAVID HAUGH
Irish Sports Report
Former Wichita State and South Carolina State head coach Willie Jeffries kept his eye on last Saturday’s Michigan State-Notre Dame football game.

AP File Photo/PHIL COALE

As America's first black college football head coach in NCAA Div. I-A, Willie Jeffries counted on some culture shock when Wichita State hired him back in 1979. His new home state of Kansas contained some small towns, after all, in which the number black families could be counted on one hand.

So Jeffries anticipated awkward moments like the time he spoke in rural Newton, Kan., at a "Buffalo barbecue,'' and the host told the crowd not to worry because, "they did prepare fried chicken and ribs,'' for Coach Jeffries. Or the time a TV producer told Jeffries not to bite his consonants so hard, because it sounded like he was trying to sound too smart.

"I had to have my subject-verb agreement perfect, I had to be friendly, cordial,'' Jeffries recalled. "When it comes down to an African-American coach, as opposed to a white coach, you have to have it all. I was watched closer, because I was black. Sure I was.''

He expected as much from alums, fans and media. But not players.

Yet what happened one night in the living room of a teen-age recruit in what he considered one of America's most progressive cities, Philadelphia, floored Jeffries. The young man, who was white, told Jeffries he couldn't play for a black head coach.

"His mom and dad were sitting right there and he said, 'I like you, coach, but I've only played for white coaches and never played under an African-American before, and I'm not sure I'm comfortable with it,' '' Jeffries recalled. "So I said, 'Thanks for telling me. I'm happy to find out now instead of on fourth-and-one.'

"His mom and dad fell to the floor laughing."

Now that was funny.

But this isn't: When Notre Dame's Tyrone Willingham and Michigan State's Bobby Williams took the field last Saturday at Spartan Stadium in front of a national-TV audience, half of the four black head coaches among the NCAA's 117 Div. I-A football programs were on display.

That's 3.4 percent of all head coaching jobs -- in a sport in which 46.4 percent of the athletes are black, according to the Center for Sport in Society at Northeastern University.

All this 23 years after Jeffries thought he had opened the door so much wider.

In some ways last Saturday was celebrated by the Black Coaches Association. But celebrated in a way infamy is celebrated; with uneasy smiles.

"The fact that two coaches of African-American descent will go against each other this weekend is significant, but it also points to a shortcoming in our system, and that is disappointing,'' Willingham said in the days leading up to the game with his alma mater.

Added Williams, who talked around the subject: "It shows how far we've come in college football.''

Yet exposes how far the sport still has to go.

Jeffries, 64, now retired and working as a fund-raiser at South Carolina State after his second coaching stint at the school where he won 128 games, echoed both men's ambivalence in his office in Orangeburg, S.C.

"This is a great day to have two African-American coaches of major, major programs -- it's like Algebra class, this is major squared -- in a game that will get this type of recognition,'' Jeffries said.

But. . .

"I don't have one bone of racial hatred in my body,'' he added. "(But), yes I still do feel some resentment about it, I can't help it.

"I'm so happy those two guys (Willingham and Williams) are in programs in which they can win. But I know how the system works. We've done a lot of things in America to try to help this, but the system (in college football) still hasn't changed for black coaches. ... It's racial. Most of the athletic directors making $150,000 with perks don't want to go out on a limb, and that's 50 percent of the problem.''

Among the other 50 percent, Jeffries takes a share of the blame himself.

"I surely didn't think that 23 years later, there'd only be four, and I do feel a little responsible that it's not more,'' Jeffries said. "I felt there would have been a preponderance of coaches if I had done better.''

After starting out 1-9, Jeffries led Wichita State to a 4-7 record before going 8-3 and beating Kansas in his third season. That got the attention of Army, which invited Jeffries to interview. He spent three days on the West Point, N.Y., campus and expected to get the offer -- and then a revelation about an NCAA probe into his WSU program changed Jeffries' career.

Turns out a Wichita State assistant had provided a ride for a player from Dallas to the first day of fall camp, and news of the NCAA's investigation scared Army away. Interest in Jeffries waned, and after a 4-7 record the following season that preceded a change in college presidents and athletic directors, Jeffries resigned with two years left on his contract. He took over the program at Div. I-AA Howard University, he says, "on my own accord.''

Last May in Indianapolis, Jeffries was honored with a Lifetime Achievement Award for the two black college national titles he won at Howard and South Carolina State. As well as for the history he made at Wichita State.

Bobby Williams, who stayed in the hotel room next to Jeffries, thanked the old coach for making his dream possible.

Jeffries was gracious, but told Williams the same thing he would tell Willingham. And the same thing he would tell Fitz Hill at San Jose State, and Tony Samuel at New Mexico State and every other black man who becomes a head coach at this level.

Thank him by winning.

"They tell me I opened the door for those two (Williams and Willingham),'' Jeffries said. "I don't know about that. But I do know that they're the first two who have had a long enough stick to fight with. ... I was fighting with a toothpick against guys with two-by-fours.''

The pain lingers, 23 years later. But it helps Jeffries to know that his pain somehow made it possible for the type of gain to be celebrated last Saturday in East Lansing.


The reason I felt that this article is important to those of us that want football is because we have to understand where WSU football was. Jeffries is a great coach and the 2nd winningest in WSU history, but chose to leave with two years on his contract. Ron Chismar came into WSU after a being the offensive coordinator at Arizona State that won the Fiesta Bowl over OU and finished ranked 6th in the nation. He never could get it going either. Our biggest win is over KU and they have very little tradition in football. Beating KU is only big because we sucked so bad for so long.
Bringing football back must be done as a well funded and well planned undertaking. To really compete we must have at least 30 million in the bank and support of the community, students and administration. We had really good people running our program, but the fans and alumni failed to fund and support it. We can't do that again and expect different results. I believe that we can have football again, but we have to have the funding to do it and I don't see that happing right now. I wish that I was wrong. We don't want a coach using a toothpick to battle guys with two-by-fours again.