Recruits: JC vs. HS vs. Prep

[Aargh]

The reason for this thread is to discuss comparisons between different types of recruits.

I'm bringing it up because Mantas Griskenas was a 1st-team JuCo AA - that's top-10 JC player in the nation. He's getting no run in pre-season hype. Maybe it's because the official NJCAA web page lists him as "Mantas Gristaner".

P'Allen Stinnett (CU recruit) is getting considerable run as a top-100 HS player. Aaron Ellis (WSU recruit) is getting some run as the #23 prep player in the nation last year.

It seems that every year there are maybe 20 or 30 JuCo guys who make significant contributions to major programs. It seems that there are always some JuCo trfr Jr's who play vital roles on NCAA teams.

Due to sheer numbers of players, top-100 HS seems to outweigh top-10 JuCo, but the JuCo guys are older, more mature and have generally played against better competition.

Preps are a completely different matter. A lot of very good HS players go prep for grades, maturity, better offers. Prep competition is probably at or above most HS competition. The number of prep players is very low compared to HS players, but prep seems to be populated with players looking to improve their level of D1 recruitment, which is a select group of HS players.

Is there any way to compare the various sources of recruits? I know the JuCo guys only have 2 years, which is a huge negative, but they are more likely to be impact players their first year than a true Fr.

[barkeep1967]

Good questions.


I am sure the reason Juco's a a notch below the rest is like you said because they only play 2 years. Not sure that is a fair way to do it but thats how it is.

I think you overestimate the competition of the Preps. While obviously some play top notch competition most are just scrambling to fill a schedule.

[DoubleJayAlum]

The reason for this thread is to discuss comparisons between different types of recruits.

I'm bringing it up because Mantas Griskenas was a 1st-team JuCo AA - that's top-10 JC player in the nation. He's getting no run in pre-season hype. Maybe it's because the official NJCAA web page lists him as "Mantas Gristaner".

P'Allen Stinnett (CU recruit) is getting considerable run as a top-100 HS player. Aaron Ellis (WSU recruit) is getting some run as the #23 prep player in the nation last year.

It seems that every year there are maybe 20 or 30 JuCo guys who make significant contributions to major programs. It seems that there are always some JuCo trfr Jr's who play vital roles on NCAA teams.

Due to sheer numbers of players, top-100 HS seems to outweigh top-10 JuCo, but the JuCo guys are older, more mature and have generally played against better competition.

Preps are a completely different matter. A lot of very good HS players go prep for grades, maturity, better offers. Prep competition is probably at or above most HS competition. The number of prep players is very low compared to HS players, but prep seems to be populated with players looking to improve their level of D1 recruitment, which is a select group of HS players.

Is there any way to compare the various sources of recruits? I know the JuCo guys only have 2 years, which is a huge negative, but they are more likely to be impact players their first year than a true Fr.

FWIW - Stinnett is coming to CU from prep school, not directly from high school.

I think JUCOs tend to not receive as much pub because there is some question of the quality of competition in JUCO now. In the height of the "Prop 48" days, many very quality kids went JUCO because they couldn't meet admission standards to play D1 and had no other option. Now, more often then not, the best players who can't make grades go the prep school route instead of the JUCO route. As a result, the overall quality of the JUCO player is not at the same level as it once was. Add to that the fact that JUCO ball generally is more like summer league play where the athletes play a more self-focused game (as opposed to a "team" game), which causes many to question the players "coachability".

Just to be clear, I have nothing personal against JUCOs. Creighton has two joining the team this year, Witter (who will have three years of eligibility instead of the more typical two years) and Booker Woodfox; I can't wait to see them both perform. That being said, I'd prefer a top HS player over a JUCO any day of the week becuase they have four years to play and grow/mature in the program.

[SycamoreFanatic]

I think JUCO recruiting is a need for some teams at times. However, I think bringing in a JUCO that does not start and/or does not play at least 20 minutes each game is a waste of a scholly & the talent pool of those that can fit in quickly & do the job is becoming smaller & smaller. Look at most teams that continually play in the Big Dance & see how many are onboard? A JUCO need is "usually" for a specific purpose; i.e. a poor recruiting year previously, injury loss, trying to save a coach's job, etc.

[tgcshock]

I think JUCO recruiting is a need for some teams at times. However, I think bringing in a JUCO that does not start and/or does not play at least 20 minutes each game is a waste of a scholly & the talent pool of those that can fit in quickly & do the job is becoming smaller & smaller. Look at most teams that continually play in the Big Dance & see how many are onboard? A JUCO need is "usually" for a specific purpose; i.e. a poor recruiting year previously, injury loss, trying to save a coach's job, etc.

I agree. However, I will say that Oklahoma State has done exceptionally well at using JUCO guys in recent years, so it can be done. Traditionally, Texas, Oklahoma, and Kansas jucos have had a lot of football and basketball talent compared to many JUCO programs around the country so it may be that mid-west schools can use local JUCOs more productively than some areas of the country.

[Little Eddie]

Disagreements...I don't think that JUCO ball is necessarily like summer league play at all. It has coaches that get paid and these guys, for the most part, know what they're doing. I mean it's not as though practices revolve around scrimmaging all the day. They are structured...there is conditioning...there is scouting...it's not too different than the Div I and II other than the talent level isn't nearly the same.

Agreements...JUCO's are best when there's a need to fill a large graduating class...especially, like CU who lost so much scoring this past season. In a perfect world the coach would fill the voids w/ high school kids. That way they could develop them the way they want and by their soph or junior years they'd know the system well and they'd be contributing that much more than a JUCO ever would (likely.) However, like in the case of so many teams in the Valley, the high school kids you want go somewhere else (like to a BCS school) and that is when schools need to look to JUCO's to fill the void's left by departures.

I definitely prefer high school recruits as it gives coach's more time to mold the player but I understand the value of JUCO transfers now and then too.

[MSNSaluki]

SIU had a JUCO player on its first Sweet 16 team, Tyrese Buie, who was a second- or third-team JUCO All-American when he came to SIU.

Dude had range of about 4 feet. He'd rebound a little and play a bit of defense but he wasn't a great player.

That always made me question JUCO All-American teams.

[DawgieStyle]

SIU had a JUCO player on its first Sweet 16 team, Tyrese Buie, who was a second- or third-team JUCO All-American when he came to SIU.

Dude had range of about 4 feet. He'd rebound a little and play a bit of defense but he wasn't a great player.

That always made me question JUCO All-American teams.

i remember him...but to be fair Lamar Owen was a JUCO, but then again, so is Ty Greene.

If you are expecting defense, energy and effort out of JUCO's, you'll get it in bunches typically.

But if you're looking for any type of offense.....KEEP LOOKING!

[Mecha_Bulldog]

If you are expecting defense, energy and effort out of JUCO's, you'll get it in bunches typically.

But if you're looking for any type of offense.....KEEP LOOKING!

Ajay Calvin was a JUCO when he came to Drake. He was all offense, no defense. Maybe he's the exception.

[DoubleJayAlum]

i remember him...but to be fair Lamar Owen was a JUCO, but then again, so is Ty Greene.

If you are expecting defense, energy and effort out of JUCO's, you'll get it in bunches typically.

But if you're looking for any type of offense.....KEEP LOOKING!

Johnnie Mathies and Nick Porter at Creighton were pretty offensively minded JUCOs.

I think it depends on who you recruit.

[whyami]

Over the last few years Bradley has done Quite well with JUCOs. Tony Bennett, Lawrence Wright, Zach Andrews and Will Franklin to name a few. All were major contributors the the Sweet 16 run and last year...:braves::valley::braves:

[goaces]

In judging a juco, you can't always go by if someone made 1st, 2nd and 3rd team all-american. I saw two players like that attend to division 2, Southern Indiana (Mel Hall, Marty Wise) and they were good, but definetly not great. Many other jucos with far less credentials did much better at the d-1 level.

Incidently, I hate the whole concept of prep schools. Unethical through and through.

[MoValley John]

In judging a juco, you can't always go by if someone made 1st, 2nd and 3rd team all-american. I saw two players like that attend to division 2, Southern Indiana (Mel Hall, Marty Wise) and they were good, but definetly not great. Many other jucos with far less credentials did much better at the d-1 level.

Incidently, I hate the whole concept of prep schools. Unethical through and through.

http://woolis.com/images/Vintage/82hall.JPG