Will WSU win a game vs. Salukis in 07/08?

[Dawgbit]

For those who are weary are bickering about the past.

[MSNSaluki]

Absolutely uncalled for.:doh:

The reputation of Saluki fans on Valley Talk grows ...

[Dawgbit]

Absolutely uncalled for.:doh:

The reputation of Saluki fans on Valley Talk grows ...


What the heck are you talking about? This just cuts to the chase. :bash:

[Ricky Del Rio]

The Shockers will lose both games.

I do not believe the Shockers will play in STL.

It's a good poll idea, however.

Good job.

[Awesome Sauce Malone]

We will split

The only game we win this year will be in carbondale.

We will have 1 win to 40 million loses and forever spend eternity in the abyss where we fans are tarred and feathered by Dana Altman in drag

[shockerfan13]

Of course not, the Dawgs will go unbeaten on their way to the Final Four...just ask other SIU fans, they'll tell ya :P.

[iSASO]

As your so eloquently-worded question suggests, the Shocks have absolutely no hope for beating SIU - in fact, with Marshall's relaxed defensive style, SIU will likely win each game by an average of 63 points.

[MoValley John]

Is this another football thread in the basketball forum?

[WSUbballer]

Of course not, the Dawgs will go unbeaten on their way to the Final Four...just ask other SIU fans, they'll tell ya :P.

Don't be ridiculous! Final Four? Are you nuts????!!

SIU fans aren't that crazy. They got National Championship aspirations in the upcoming years, not none of this ludicrous Final Four crap.

Come on now, keep up.

[Cdizzle]

As your so eloquently-worded question suggests, the Shocks have absolutely no hope for beating SIU - in fact, with Marshall's relaxed defensive style, SIU will likely win each game by an average of 63 points.

I know Southern's defense is good, but come on. Holding us to negative points seems a little unreasonable.:no:

[iSASO]

SIU is that good. Expect scores like 37 to -26.

[doinit salukistyle]

isaso, that's the nicest thing you've said about our offense in years, 37 points? wow!!

having kids really changes your prospective doesnt it?

[MSNSaluki]

The Shockers will lose both games.

I do not believe the Shockers will play in STL.

It's a good poll idea, however.

Good job.

My sarcasm meter is going bonkers.:lol:

[Aargh]

If SIU suffers from the loss of Tatum and Young, it's more likely to show on the defensive end than the offensive end.

Last year SIU had an extremely quick perimeter defense and some of the best defensive rotations I've ever seen.

2/3 of that perimeter D is gone.

Another change. When Tatum had the ball he forced D's to cheat to cover a potential drive to the hoop. Tatum was basically getting doubled on the perimeter.

Maybe SIU has another guy with the ball-handling skills and work ethic Tatum had. Probably not. Those players don't come around often at any level.

This year WSU has Couisnard on the perimeter. He's the guy who's going to demand a perimeter double.

The first WSU/SIU game is in Carbondale Jan. 19. By then WSU will probably have an athletic 7' Nigerian who's played with the team over a month.

Orukpe won't be sharp or well-versed in anything WSU does. He will probably be told, "Don't let #14 get the ball. If he gets the ball don't let him shoot it. If he shoots it, block it".

This could get interesting.

[Cdizzle]

Orukpe won't be sharp or well-versed in anything WSU does. He will probably be told, "Don't let #14 get the ball. If he gets the ball hack the crap out of him.
This could get interesting.


Fixed.

[outpost]

Absolutely uncalled for.:doh:

The reputation of Saluki fans on Valley Talk grows ...

As far as I'm concerned, they're reputation is okay. Except for one thing.

They can't spell worth a damn........

[DawgieStyle]

wow, who let the crazies out of the insane asylum?

a word to all...

I Think SIU fans are very confident, yes, I would agree with that.

and I would also agree that most SIU Fans are very excited and pleased with our future recruits and the general direction of our program.

But any knowledgable SIU fan realizes that we are a long way off from being a consistent final 4 or national title contender. Could we pull a George Mason one year, sure. But a realistic threat? Not quite yet.

Do SIU fans have hopes that our future recruits will put us over that hump. You're damn straight. But does that mean it will automatically happen? no, they need to play a few games first before we crown their @#$.

I do have a quick question for the rest of you though. After making 2 sweet 16's and 6 consecutive NCAA's isn't that next logical progression for SIU fans is start looking and hoping to get to the elite 8 and final 4's? I would think so, and if our incoming recruits are getting better each year, the logical thought process is start hoping for that.

Is that arrogance? I don't know. I think its a logical progression for the program. Will it happen? Who knows.....but all fan bases have expectations. As teams improve, their expectations get higher. After making sweet 16's shouldn't our expectations get higher as well?

[Maggie]

Just a thought, I think SIU fans can reasonably discuss whether the program can make the "next step" and get to the Elite 8 or the Final Four.
I have a lot of respect for SIU because they have continued to get better over the years despite several coaching changes, etc. But much of future success will depend upon seeding. SIU received a 4 seed last year, as top MVC team, which I thought was fair. As it stands now, however, only the best MVC team has a chance to get that type of seed. The second best team will likely be seeded somewhere between 7-12, which would make it difficult to make the Elite 8. I do not believe nor do I think that any rational SIU fan believes that SIU will be the best team in the MVC year in and year out.
I am not sure that SIU, or any MVC team, can get to that "next step" alone. The MVC has to continue to be strong and thereby justifying better seeds for all its teams that make the NCAA tournament. Otherwise, the best MVC team will be nothing more than good team from a mediocre conference who will be awarded a mid level seed come March.

Furthermore, any attempt to predict the outcome of the SIU/WSU match ups right now is pure speculation. And frankly, I don't care at this point. My first focus will be rooting on all the MVC teams during the non-conference.

[JVShocker]

WSU will beat SIU twice - once in Wichita, and then beat them in St. Louis to win the Valley Tourney and automatic bid . :shockers::banana::innocent:

[MSNSaluki]

As far as I'm concerned, they're reputation is okay. Except for one thing.

They can't spell worth a damn........

I trust you're not talking about me ... or are you?:original:

[Brave2001]

I voted no, WSUBBaller is generating way too much Bad Karma for his one man mission against SIU.

[WSUbballer]

I voted no, WSUBBaller is generating way too much Bad Karma for his one man mission against SIU.

Thanks for swaying the vote.

I'm glad my "SIU-hating mission" is tearing you in half and causing personal stress.

I must've struck a nerve.. :shutup:

[salukibob]

I hope the answer is 'no.' :salukis:

[Brave2001]

Thanks for swaying the vote.

I'm glad my "SIU-hating mission" is tearing you in half and causing personal stress.

I must've struck a nerve.. :shutup:

more like my funny bone.

[outpost]

more like my funny bone.

Why don't you go and do something worthwhile......like, uh.......changing your mascot.

[DawgieStyle]

Why don't you go and do something worthwhile......like, uh.......changing your mascot.

Awwww. the shocker faithful rallying together....cute. $10 says cold pokes his head in with in the next 24 hours.

god i love this board this time of year.....people ready to unload, but the games haven't started yet.....its sort of like premature ejaculation.......where's Go, we need an expert in this field.

[WSUbballer]

Why don't you go and do something worthwhile......like, uh.......changing your mascot.

Touche.

[WSUbballer]

Awwww. the shocker faithful rallying together....cute.

Cuter than brotherly love?

god i love this board this time of year.....people ready to unload, but the games haven't started yet.....its sort of like premature ejaculation.......where's Go, we need an expert in this field.

Ready to unload some more of those accurate predictions?? :banana::banghead::Jumpy::shutup::yes:

The Go thing I can't argue with. :bounceblue:

[DawgieStyle]

Cuter than brotherly love?



Ready to unload some more of those accurate predictions?? :banana::banghead::Jumpy::shutup::yes:

The Go thing I can't argue with. :bounceblue:

sure, they're just predictions, they don't effect anything but my personal ego and you.

[WSUbballer]

sure, they're just predictions, they don't effect anything but my personal ego and you.

Maybe on the anything...definitely on the personal ego.

I remember the ego-busted Dawgie in mid-December of last year.

Great stuff.

[DawgieStyle]

Maybe on the anything...definitely on the personal ego.

I remember the ego-busted Dawgie in mid-December of last year.

Great stuff.

well my ego may have been busted, but at least my team wasn't, that nose dive WAS great stuff...especially since it happened during conference play......

[cuhoops]

shockerfan13... are those EMPTY seats in the background of your avatar? I was under the impression that every shocker event in history was sold out! Please fill us in! Was there a K-state game that night?



:jays:

[WSUbballer]

well my ego may have been busted, but at least my team wasn't, that nose dive WAS great stuff...especially since it happened during conference play......

I thought last year was last year Dawgie? On that note, 2006 was great stuff as well, since we're playing the history game.

Here's to more ego-busters!!!! :clap::yes::banana::bounceblue::Jumpy:

[WSUbballer]

shockerfan13... are those EMPTY seats in the background of your avatar? I was under the impression that every shocker event in history was sold out! Please fill us in! Was there a K-state game that night?



:jays:

I'm not shockerfan13, but I'll answer the Q.

6800 for a scrimmage wasn't thaat good. It coulda been better.

Would you mind posting pictures of the sold-out Quest Center when the Bluejays take the floor for their scrimmage?

Thanks.

[MSNSaluki]

I predict SIU and Wichita State will play each other at least twice this year.

History proves it will happen.

[iSASO]

shockerfan13... are those EMPTY seats in the background of your avatar? I was under the impression that every shocker event in history was sold out! Please fill us in! Was there a K-state game that night?



:jays:

I don't think Creighton even has a scrimmage night because, according to Blueblood, soccer occupies all 17,000 of their basketball fans.

[cuhoops]

I don't think Creighton even has a scrimmage night because, according to Blueblood, soccer occupies all 17,000 of their basketball fans.


Actually I'm pretty sure it's because Dana doesn't want to do it... but good try.

[blueblood]

I feel dirty being mentioned in this thread........................and I like it.

[WSUfan]

I feel dirty being mentioned in this thread........................and I like it.

I knew we could count on you to keep VT alive.

[Ictjay]

If SIU suffers from the loss of Tatum and Young, it's more likely to show on the defensive end than the offensive end.

Last year SIU had an extremely quick perimeter defense and some of the best defensive rotations I've ever seen.

2/3 of that perimeter D is gone.

Another change. When Tatum had the ball he forced D's to cheat to cover a potential drive to the hoop. Tatum was basically getting doubled on the perimeter.

Maybe SIU has another guy with the ball-handling skills and work ethic Tatum had. Probably not. Those players don't come around often at any level.

This year WSU has Couisnard on the perimeter. He's the guy who's going to demand a perimeter double.

The first WSU/SIU game is in Carbondale Jan. 19. By then WSU will probably have an athletic 7' Nigerian who's played with the team over a month.

Orukpe won't be sharp or well-versed in anything WSU does. He will probably be told, "Don't let #14 get the ball. If he gets the ball don't let him shoot it. If he shoots it, block it".

This could get interesting.

Athleticly,WSU has added a couple players to this years lineup. If Hawkins could play, I'd say watch out! Defense prevails in the Valley and even though SIU lost a couple perimeter players, they still have others who have been in the "system". Mekel/Breuer/ are liabilities on defense. Too many unproven newbies. Marshall will have them contending in 08-09.

[outpost]

Athleticly,WSU has added a couple players to this years lineup. If Hawkins could play, I'd say watch out! Defense prevails in the Valley and even though SIU lost a couple perimeter players, they still have others who have been in the "system". Mekel/Breuer/ are liabilities on defense. Too many unproven newbies. Marshall will have them contending in 08-09.

In spite of my enthusiasm over Tuesday night's showing......I find absolutely no fault with your assessment. I differ from Aargh in that I won't count Orupke as a Shocker until he gets off the copter and is a tangible part of the team.

[DoubleJayAlum]

In spite of my enthusiasm over Tuesday night's showing......I find absolutely no fault with your assessment. I differ from Aargh in that I won't count Orupke as a Shocker until he gets off the copter and is a tangible part of the team.

Is that really you Outpost? :grin:

Pretty rational response. I think your approach with Orupke seems the most sound; the caoching staff should develop a season strategy based on him never arriving and then tweak that strategy when he gets there. When dealing with international players, especially those from countries with a tinge of corruption, nothing is assured. Plan for the worst and hope for the best.

As far Mekel, I've always seen defense as his biggest liability. I know several Shox posters (especially rjl) have said that Turg pulled GM because of his "creativity" on offense. While that may be true to a degreee, his Ole defense always struck me as something that would drive most MVC coaches crazy.

[outpost]

Is that really you Outpost? :grin:

Pretty rational response. I think your approach with Orupke seems the most sound. When dealing with international players, nothing is assured.

As far Mekel, I've always seen defense as his biggest liability. I know several Shox posters (especially rjl) have said that Turg pulled GM because of his "creativity" on offense. While that may be true to a degreee, his Ole defense always struck me as something that would drive most MVC coaches crazy.

I've been known for those. But hey.....everyone has shown exuberance a time or two out here on VT....

Too many times, WSU has been burnt by the promise of a big-man on paper (or in the papers), only to be disappointed by the product on the court (Ryan Bradley being the most recent).

I see no choice but to temper my personal enthusiasm over Orupke's arrival and any contribution we may get from him.

[JDawg]

I don't think WSU will win a game against SIU this season.

[Ricky Del Rio]

I don't think WSU will win a game against SIU this season.

Ditto.

[WSUbballer]

I don't think WSU will win a game against SIU this season.

I don't think [Fill in any NCAA Division I team] will win a game against SIU this season.

(Hope there's no Anchorage's on the schedule)

[iSASO]

What will be SIU's final record, assuming they will win every game?

[Dawgbit]

Ditto.

Double ditto.

[WSUbballer]

What will be SIU's final record, assuming they will win every game?

By my count, since there are no D-II'ers on the schedule, 39-0. Book it.

[Dawgbit]

What will be SIU's final record, assuming they will win every game?

There is a huge difference in winning every game, and in beating WSU twice, one would be an extraordinary accomplishment, the other, fairly routine and mundane, since it normally happens every year.

translated- you are putting words in someone's mouth, or as RR once said to JC, "there you go again".:banana:

[txsaluki05]

Double ditto.

triple ditto

[Cdizzle]

triple ditto

You can't triple ditto a double ditto. :doh:

[jt45]

You can't triple ditto a double ditto. :doh:

Good stuff right there!:clap:

"Just when I think you can't be any dumber....."

[creightonfever]

in answer to your question.. No.

[Mecha_Bulldog]

There is a huge difference in winning every game, and in beating WSU twice, one would be an extraordinary accomplishment, the other, fairly routine and mundane, since it normally happens every year.

translated- you are putting words in someone's mouth, or as RR once said to JC, "there you go again".:banana:

If SIU normally beats WSU twice every year, which MVC team(s) does SIU normally not beat twice every year?

[Dawgbit]

If SIU normally beats WSU twice every year, which MVC team(s) does SIU normally not beat twice every year?

Can I buy a vowel?

[Mecha_Bulldog]

Can I buy a vowel?

I'll give you a U :grin:

I'm just wondering who in the MVC beats SIU in a normal year.

[Ricky Del Rio]

Can I buy a vowel?


If you can name all of the vowels, I will sell you one.

However, it is quite doubtful that you can name all of the vowels. Even if you research it before you answer, if is doubtful.

[Dawgbit]

If you can name all of the vowels, I will sell you one.

However, it is quite doubtful that you can name all of the vowels. Even if you research it before you answer, if is doubtful.

Don't be a poo-poo head Ricky.:no:

[Ricky Del Rio]

Don't be a poo-poo head Ricky.:no:

What do you call a person, who authors this thread? La cabeza abono?

[BearsCountry]

I'll give you a U :grin:

I'm just wondering who in the MVC beats SIU in a normal year.

:bears:

[Dawgbit]

What do you call a person, who authors this thread? La cabeza abono?

I call him a handsome, albeit, slowly aging devil! :clap:

My wife calls me a burning hunk of:banana:.....oh well, nevermind.:no:

El Zorra gotta problem wit dees thread, eh?

[dakyne]

To be honest, and for the record, winning any game on the road in the MVC is a tough assignment, so odds are that WSU could pull an upset at the Koch. SIU should also win at home, and if it came down to a rubber match in St. Louis, it's SIU's to lose.

Having said that, nothing is a given, so an SIU win could be construed as an upset by the time March rolls around. Predicting individual games is more treacherous than predicting the outcome of a whole season, and both tasks are difficult.

[WSUbballer]

It's hard to call it an upset at this early stage in the year. If SIU were to happen to not have a year many fans expect (God forbid), then a win by WSU in Wichita I don't think would constitute it to be called an "upset".

But should SIU have the season many expect, Wichita will be nothing more than a blip on the radar to San Antonio.

BTW, "scoreboard".. :clap:

[tBU]

Why don't you go and do something worthwhile......like, uh.......changing your mascot.


Wouldn't we have to HAVE a mascot before we could actually CHANGE it.....

[Carrcar]

Wouldn't we have to HAVE a mascot before we could actually CHANGE it.....
I thought BU's mascot is a Ferrari.

[doinit salukistyle]

I thought BU's mascot is a Ferrari.

a Ferrari that gets bested by a Yugo!!!

[ShocknUrSister]

Ah yes, it's just about that time of year again. Basketballs are dribbling throughout the Country and SIU is hitting the blocking sleds after already defeating the SIU football team in the most physical game of grab *** known to college athletics.

It's hard to hate what you don't like to begin with and when I say my prayers at night I am thankful that the rest of Div. 1 b-ball plays basketball and not linebacker ball. Maybe SIU should field a professional Rugby team as they obviously have taken art and style of baskeball and have crushed and condensed it into the equivalent of a Maori tribesman doing a tribal dance prior to eating an unfortunate pilgrim who has wandered into their midst with the official NCAA rulebook on what is and what is not a foul.

My prediction for SIU and WSU and for that matter any game that SIU plays in? PAIN! win or lose.

[Dawgbit]

Ah yes, it's just about that time of year again. Basketballs are dribbling throughout the Country and SIU is hitting the blocking sleds after already defeating the SIU football team in the most physical game of grab *** known to college athletics.

It's hard to hate what you don't like to begin with and when I say my prayers at night I am thankful that the rest of Div. 1 b-ball plays basketball and not linebacker ball. Maybe SIU should field a professional Rugby team as they obviously have taken art and style of baskeball and have crushed and condensed it into the equivalent of a Maori tribesman doing a tribal dance prior to eating an unfortunate pilgrim who has wandered into their midst with the official NCAA rulebook on what is and what is not a foul.

My prediction for SIU and WSU and for that matter any game that SIU plays in? PAIN! win or lose.

Really sorry that your team does not have the physicality to compete with SIU. Now quit your whining, you need to find some updated material. :no:

[DawgieStyle]

Ah yes, it's just about that time of year again. Basketballs are dribbling throughout the Country and SIU is hitting the blocking sleds after already defeating the SIU football team in the most physical game of grab *** known to college athletics.

It's hard to hate what you don't like to begin with and when I say my prayers at night I am thankful that the rest of Div. 1 b-ball plays basketball and not linebacker ball. Maybe SIU should field a professional Rugby team as they obviously have taken art and style of baskeball and have crushed and condensed it into the equivalent of a Maori tribesman doing a tribal dance prior to eating an unfortunate pilgrim who has wandered into their midst with the official NCAA rulebook on what is and what is not a foul.

My prediction for SIU and WSU and for that matter any game that SIU plays in? PAIN! win or lose.

wah wah wah wah wah.......blah blah blah...same crap, different year. You'd think after 6 straight years of knowing exactly what SIU was going to do teams would make adjustments

......if they're not...bad coaching...if they are and still losing...bad team. Sorry. I get tired of the crybaby crap when you know exactly what's coming. If your team fails to prepare for it, then they failed to win. end of story. Stop putting it on SIU, and start putting it on your team for coming up short.

[MoValley John]

Dawgie, you are right. But I don't want to hear one peep from any SIU fans if the Salukis lose a game because the officials called it tight.

[shockball]

Dawgie, you are right. But I don't want to hear one peep from any SIU fans if the Salukis lose a game because the officials called it tight.

I think SIU fans will be more patient if games are called a little tighter out on the court. Younger players will have to figure out what they can get away with. Mistakes will be made. No one can expect these guys to step right into Tatum or Youngs shoes.

Hopefully you won't see anyone wanting to change the system after a few losses.

[DawgieStyle]

Dawgie, you are right. But I don't want to hear one peep from any SIU fans if the Salukis lose a game because the officials called it tight.

You know my stance on refs...they don't decide games, never do. They make good calls, bad calls, and dumb calls, but they do it evenly for both teams typically. Only the bias fans think they're getting screwed.

and even if the officiating did lean one way, there are about 100 other things that your team did wrong in order for you to lose the game that has nothing to do with officiating. Missed jump shot, free throw, bad pass, too many turnovers, shooting bricks, lack of defense, and on and on.

This has always been my stance, always will. Even when SIU lost to Kansas and many were calling for the refs heads....SIU had multiple other factors and oppurtunites to win that game.....it fell on them, not the refs.

[MSNSaluki]

Even when SIU lost to Kansas and many were calling for the refs heads....SIU had multiple other factors and oppurtunites to win that game.....it fell on them, not the refs.

I had a hard time swallowing the arguments on how we got screwed by the refs when nobody would acknowledge Jamaal Tatum missed a wide-open put back with a minute or so to go that would have given SIU the lead.:no:

[Awesome Sauce Malone]

I forget the call but there was one in the first half/early second half that was a complete screwjob.
Tatum had the chance to win it and missed the shot. One could argue that the blown call would have swayed the game differenct.

Who knows.

[kyyle23]

I had a hard time swallowing the arguments on how we got screwed by the refs when nobody would acknowledge Jamaal Tatum missed a wide-open put back with a minute or so to go that would have given SIU the lead.:no:

That putback would have been a nail in the coffin for Kansas rather than SIU if the refs didnt give the Jayhawks 2 shots after the shotclock expired

[MSNSaluki]

That putback would have been a nail in the coffin for Kansas rather than SIU if the refs didnt give the Jayhawks 2 shots after the shotclock expired

If if my aunt had balls ...

It's easier to blame the refs than Jamaal Tatum. And while I'm at it, our great defense allowed Kansas to shoot like 78% from the field in the second half. But, that was probably the refs fault, too.:doh:

[Dawgbit]

I had a hard time swallowing the arguments on how we got screwed by the refs when nobody would acknowledge Jamaal Tatum missed a wide-open put back with a minute or so to go that would have given SIU the lead.:no:

The CBS announcers certainly thought SIU got screwed, they must have been closet Saluki fans.

[MSNSaluki]

The CBS announcers certainly thought SIU got screwed, they must have been closet Saluki fans.

Those WERE bad calls. But they happened in the first few minutes of the game. SIU had plenty of time to overcome there and there were 100 other plays that can be critiqued.

But, no, we want to focus on the officials. I don't get this inability to look at ourselves in the mirror.

[Cdizzle]

Those WERE bad calls. But they happened in the first few minutes of the game. SIU had plenty of time to overcome there and there were 100 other plays that can be critiqued.

But, no, we want to focus on the officials. I don't get this inability to look at ourselves in the mirror.

I'm as big of an SIU-ball hater as there is. I'll admit that. I just don't enjoy watching that kind of game. Obviously, if I was a Dawg fan, and the wins kept piling up, I'd probably feel differently. I think the Valley would have been able to gain more from SIU's recent success had anybody enjoyed watching it, as the majority of the Valley's ESPN games involve Southern. That being said, I was pulling hard for you against KU, and thought you got royally screwed.

:valley:

[dakyne]

Thanks for the support CDizzle, but there were no fans in San Jose who thought the SIU/KU game was boring. And that included UCLA, Pitt fans, and Dick Enberg.

[kyyle23]

If if my aunt had balls ...

It's easier to blame the refs than Jamaal Tatum. And while I'm at it, our great defense allowed Kansas to shoot like 78% from the field in the second half. But, that was probably the refs fault, too.:doh:

Wait a second, you are saying "if only Tatum hit that putback" and then you come back to me with "If my aunt had balls...."?

Hello Pot, Im kettle

[ShocknUrSister]

Really sorry that your team does not have the physicality to compete with SIU. Now quit your whining, you need to find some updated material. :no:

You know it's true.

You should of read what the KU fans were saying about SIU after last years NCAA game. They couldn't believe anyone would really play basketball like SIU. I posted there and said welcome to my world Gheyhawks. SIU is a winning program but you guys still suck as you play the most ugly and disgusting form of basketball in existance.

[ShocknUrSister]

wah wah wah wah wah.......blah blah blah...same crap, different year. You'd think after 6 straight years of knowing exactly what SIU was going to do teams would make adjustments

......if they're not...bad coaching...if they are and still losing...bad team. Sorry. I get tired of the crybaby crap when you know exactly what's coming. If your team fails to prepare for it, then they failed to win. end of story. Stop putting it on SIU, and start putting it on your team for coming up short.

Lick my taint linebacker ball.

[ShocknUrSister]

I'm as big of an SIU-ball hater as there is. I'll admit that. I just don't enjoy watching that kind of game. Obviously, if I was a Dawg fan, and the wins kept piling up, I'd probably feel differently. I think the Valley would have been able to gain more from SIU's recent success had anybody enjoyed watching it, as the majority of the Valley's ESPN games involve Southern. That being said, I was pulling hard for you against KU, and thought you got royally screwed.

:valley:

I'll agree with this guy except to say I didn't care who won the game as I was just hoping it would go 8 to 10 overtimes and the last player who had a good hammy was the winner.

[dakyne]

shock,

You should of read what the KU fans were saying about SIU after last years NCAA game. They couldn't believe anyone would really play basketball like SIU. I posted there and said welcome to my world Gheyhawks. SIU is a winning program but you guys still suck as you play the most ugly and disgusting form of basketball in existance.


No one really should give a damn what KU fans have to say, especially WSU fans. Why don't you try interviewing Bill Self and his players regarding what they thought of SIU, before listening to KU fans? Brandon rush said SIU's defense was tougher than UCLA's.

And I guess Mullins was bullying KU's guards when he broke one guard's ankle, and then picked another--neither time touching the KU guard.

Sorry, if you're looking for sympathy, you're not getting any.

Especially when you're a fan of an MVC program and can't root another MVC team in the NCAA's. What's good for the MVC tends to be good for WSU, but I guess that's a connection too difficult to grasp.

[ShocknUrSister]

shock,




No one really should give a damn what KU fans have to say, especially WSU fans. Why don't you try interviewing Bill Self and his players regarding what they thought of SIU, before listening to KU fans? Brandon rush said SIU's defense was tougher than UCLA's.

And I guess Mullins was bullying KU's guards when he broke one guard's ankle, and then picked another--neither time touching the KU guard.

Sorry, if you're looking for sympathy, you're not getting any.

Especially when you're a fan of an MVC program and can't root another MVC team in the NCAA's. What's good for the MVC tends to be good for WSU, but I guess that's a connection too difficult to grasp.

Sympathy? Feh, you can kiss my arse.

It's hard to cheer for SIU but my loathing for KU is equal. I think in the end I was cheering for the upset just to see the KU fans I have to deal with melt down. Didn't happen though but it could have.

[Dawgbit]

You know it's true.

You should of read what the KU fans were saying about SIU after last years NCAA game. They couldn't believe anyone would really play basketball like SIU. I posted there and said welcome to my world Gheyhawks. SIU is a winning program but you guys still suck as you play the most ugly and disgusting form of basketball in existance.

Grow up.

[iSASO]

:tv_happy:

[Dawgbit]

If if my aunt had balls ...

It's easier to blame the refs than Jamaal Tatum. And while I'm at it, our great defense allowed Kansas to shoot like 78% from the field in the second half. But, that was probably the refs fault, too.:doh:

You are may be ok with the stripes spotting the "big school" a few points, just because of who they are, but I am not ok with it. Why are you attributing the loss margin to the blown lay-up, vs. say a dunk after time has expired, or a basket interference play that was not called? Why is it that so many times in March, a "little" school plays a "big" school, the little school has a point spread to overcome, just to break even?

When there is $500 million worth of TV advertising at stake, there is an unholy alliance between CBS, the NCAA, and the "glamour schools". Example-Greg Oden throws Xavier player out of bounds, "ahhhh, what-the-heck, this is THE Ohio State, we've gotta keep them in the Dance!"

Bull*****.

[MoValley John]

You are may be ok with the stripes spotting the "big school" a few points, just because of who they are, but I am not ok with it. Why are you attributing the loss margin to the blown lay-up, vs. say a dunk after time has expired, or a basket interference play that was not called? Why is it that so many times in March, a "little" school plays a "big" school, the little school has a point spread to overcome, just to break even?

When there is $500 million worth of TV advertising at stake, there is an unholy alliance between CBS, the NCAA, and the "glamour schools". Example-Greg Oden throws Xavier player out of bounds, "ahhhh, what-the-heck, this is THE Ohio State, we've gotta keep them in the Dance!"

Bull*****.

So I guess it is okay for Southern Illinoiis fans to whine about officiating, but not for anyone else.

[kyyle23]

So I guess it is okay for Southern Illinoiis fans to whine about officiating, but not for anyone else.

Dont get me wrong, im not whining about that game. i thought it was a nailbiter and could have gone either way. However, if one can say "its Jamal Tatums fault we lost because he blew a layup", i think its a valid response to question the 2 baskets that the Jayhawks earned without time on the clock. I thought the officiating was very good outside of those two plays.

Im not gonna lie though, the Salukis had no response for Rush, and he was more or less the nail in the coffin all by himself.

[DawgieStyle]

Lick my taint linebacker ball.

oh look, the newbie wants to play.......:lol::lol:

the signs of a cold wannabe....sigh.

When are you willing to look at your self and your teams flaws in the mirror, come back to the board young one. Other wise, grow a pair.

the only fault in losing to SIU, is the team that lost. end of story. It wasn't the refs, it wasn't SIU playing too rough, it wasn't anything other than a lack of perparation and execution of that preparation.

For 6 plus years now....your team, the shockers, know exactly how SIU is gonna play. You can predict it down to what time Randall Falker takes a pre-game dump.

If your team fails to prepare for that, with that kind of knowledge and flat out game plan in hand, your team and your coach failed. Stop blaming SIU and deal with it. If you're mad about the way SIU plays, beat them. It's the only way they are going to change their strategy. Teams have to make SIU change. There is no reason to change what is successful...make SIU lose. Adapt, play their game, you know what's coming, down to what time Tony Boyle will Foul out of the game. Win or shut up. The only thing to be mad at is your coach and your team for not taking advantage of 6 previous years of experience against SIU and not translating it into wins.

YOUR TEAM FAILED, BE MAD AT THEM!

[DawgieStyle]

Dont get me wrong, im not whining about that game. i thought it was a nailbiter and could have gone either way. However, if one can say "its Jamal Tatums fault we lost because he blew a layup", i think its a valid response to question the 2 baskets that the Jayhawks earned without time on the clock. I thought the officiating was very good outside of those two plays.

Im not gonna lie though, the Salukis had no response for Rush, and he was more or less the nail in the coffin all by himself.

yes, but Tatum blew a play, a physical thing. The ball either goes through the net or it doesn't.

The refs made a judgement call, something very subjective. They make 100's of these through out a game. they get some right, and get some wrong. For every screw job we thought we got, I'll bet you KU fans found just as many they thought were bad. It evens out.

but tatum, along with other plays, blew non-subjective things like lay ups, put backs, jump shots, turnovers, etc. etc.

If you are in a position where its up the refs to decide a game, you already lost. Don't let the game get to that point, and you don't have to worry about it.

[MoValley John]

I guess with regards to whining about officials, we now need to say to SIU fans, "Pot, meet kettle."

[MoValley John]

That putback would have been a nail in the coffin for Kansas rather than SIU if the refs didnt give the Jayhawks 2 shots after the shotclock expired

Wah.

[DawgieStyle]

I guess with regards to whining about officials, we now need to say to SIU fans, "Pot, meet kettle."

seriously, theres one guy who's whining, and I'm not even sure i'd call it whining. The rest of us think SIU shot its self in the foot.

[MoValley John]

The CBS announcers certainly thought SIU got screwed, they must have been closet Saluki fans.

Wah.

[MoValley John]

Wait a second, you are saying "if only Tatum hit that putback" and then you come back to me with "If my aunt had balls...."?

Hello Pot, Im kettle

Wah.

[MoValley John]

You are may be ok with the stripes spotting the "big school" a few points, just because of who they are, but I am not ok with it. Why are you attributing the loss margin to the blown lay-up, vs. say a dunk after time has expired, or a basket interference play that was not called? Why is it that so many times in March, a "little" school plays a "big" school, the little school has a point spread to overcome, just to break even?

When there is $500 million worth of TV advertising at stake, there is an unholy alliance between CBS, the NCAA, and the "glamour schools". Example-Greg Oden throws Xavier player out of bounds, "ahhhh, what-the-heck, this is THE Ohio State, we've gotta keep them in the Dance!"

Bull*****.

Wah.

[Dawgbit]

So I guess it is okay for Southern Illinoiis fans to whine about officiating, but not for anyone else.


My opinion is the same as an impartial audience, the announcers calling the game. WSU fans, in particular, whine about SIU's aggressive style of play.

Oh, by the way, kudos on reaching 3000 posts on an internet message board. That is quite an accomplishment, perhaps as an encore you may discover a cure for cancer.

[MoValley John]

http://www.ihatecilantro.com/userpics/crying_baby_rbby_92.jpg

[DawgieStyle]

http://www.ihatecilantro.com/userpics/crying_baby_rbby_92.jpg

so i don't agree with anyone complaining about SIU and refs, its dumb....

but in your case, its pretty easy to throw out the crybaby dart when you don't have any allegiance or favorite team you are rooting for in the Valley.

[MoValley John]

so i don't agree with anyone complaining about SIU and refs, its dumb....

but in your case, its pretty easy to throw out the crybaby dart when you don't have any allegiance or favorite team you are rooting for in the Valley.

I haven't made fun of you at all with regards to the whining issue. I totally agree with you. That said, without me having an allegiance, it's easy to see just when any fanbase, not just SIU, is being hypocritical.

Oh, by the way, don't you remember, since you forced my hand, I picked Drake as my team. Go Bulldogs!

[underdawg2]

http://www.ihatecilantro.com/userpics/crying_baby_rbby_92.jpg


Non verbal Trollese for "I am a *****in idiot, but want people to think I a clever one.":lol:

[DawgieStyle]

I haven't made fun of you at all with regards to the whining issue. I totally agree with you. That said, without me having an allegiance, it's easy to see just when any fanbase, not just SIU, is being hypocritical.

Oh, by the way, don't you remember, since you forced my hand, I picked Drake as my team. Go Bulldogs!

yes yes, mighty drake

[MoValley John]

Don't get too upset with me Saluki fans, so I called a few of you hypocrites. Look on the bright side, It's nearly impossible to be a hypocrite if you are an Evansville fan.

[MoValley John]

Non verbal Trollese for "I am a *****in idiot, but want people to think I a clever one.":lol:

Quick retort which loosly translates to, "God, he is pissing me off!" :lol:

[MoValley John]

yes yes, mighty drake

Here's to the one who wears the "D",
Makes a good fight for Varsity,
Here's to those who've fought and won,
Makes a good fight as a true Drake alum,
Here's to the one who's brave and bold,
Ready to battle like days of old,
Fights like a bulldog for victory!
Oh, here's to the one who wears the "D"!

[WSUbballer]

You are may be ok with the stripes spotting the "big school" a few points, just because of who they are, but I am not ok with it. Why are you attributing the loss margin to the blown lay-up, vs. say a dunk after time has expired, or a basket interference play that was not called? Why is it that so many times in March, a "little" school plays a "big" school, the little school has a point spread to overcome, just to break even?

When there is $500 million worth of TV advertising at stake, there is an unholy alliance between CBS, the NCAA, and the "glamour schools". Example-Greg Oden throws Xavier player out of bounds, "ahhhh, what-the-heck, this is THE Ohio State, we've gotta keep them in the Dance!"

Bull*****.

That was a lot of garbage.

Why are you still whining about something that happened 7 months ago?

Get over it.

[kyyle23]

seriously, theres one guy who's whining, and I'm not even sure i'd call it whining. The rest of us think SIU shot its self in the foot.

agreed. Unless you are saying Im the one whining ;)

[WSUbballer]

So I guess it is okay for Southern Illinoiis fans to whine about officiating, but not for anyone else.

Nice observation.

I was rooting for SIU the whole way. They blew a few chances. KU made more. It was a battle. KU won. It ended 7 months ago. End of story.

[WSUbballer]

Here's to the one who wears the "D",
Makes a good fight for Varsity,
Here's to those who've fought and won,
Makes a good fight as a true Drake alum,
Here's to the one who's brave and bold,
Ready to battle like days of old,
Fights like a bulldog for victory!
Oh, here's to the one who wears the "D"!

Is that really the Drake fight song or did you just make that up?

[MoValley John]

You can't make that shat up.

[DawgieStyle]

here shock'n'yoursister, here boy, here kitty kitty kitty.......come get your medecine...here kitty kitty.

[WSUbballer]

You can't make that shat up.

:lol:

[Mecha_Bulldog]

Is that really the Drake fight song or did you just make that up?

Those are the lyrics to Drake's D song, actually. The Drake fight song is something else. So what are the lyrics to WSU's school song? Ooh, can I make some up? :grin:

[WSUbballer]

Those are the lyrics to Drake's D song, actually. The Drake fight song is something else. So what are the lyrics to WSU's school song? Ooh, can I make some up? :grin:

I'm too lazy to look it up. Maybe MVJ can help. Something about standing on a hill. Not too proud of it either.

[MoValley John]

I'm too lazy to look it up. Maybe MVJ can help. Something about standing on a hill. Not too proud of it either.

God, why do I have to do all the heavy lifting around here?!!!!!

Here you go!

All Hail! Hail! Wichita U.

Rah! Rah! Rah for Wichita
March onward banners high,
With courage, force that can never
Die, Rah!
We'll fight for Wichita,
Brave spirits never fail,
To Wichita all loyalty,
Hail! Our Varsity, Triumphantly, Hail!



All Hail! Hail! Wichita U.
Rah! Rah! Rah for Wichita State Athletics
March onward banners high,
With courage, force that can never
Die, Rah!
We'll fight for Wichita,
Brave spirits never fail,
To Wichita all loyalty,
Hail! Our Varsity, Triumphantly, Hail!
<HR>Alma Mater


Our alma mater Wichita,

Proudly on the hill;
Our sons and daughters bow to thee,
Our hearts with praise we fill.
Then, hail! Alma Mater!
Hail, thee, Grand and True,
Long wave the Yellow and Black, O Wichita, Here's to you!



Around our lives are memories
That tenderly entwine; And
Thru the midst of the rolling years,
Of thee we build a shrine.
Then, hail! Alma Mater!
Hail, thee Grand and True,
Long wave the Yellow and the Black, O Wichita, Here's to you!



Thy call to all that life hold dear
Is a clear and constant guide;
With Love and Truth and Loyalty,
And may they e'er abide.
Our hearts with praise we fill.
Then, hail! Alma Mater!
Hail, thee Grand and True,
Long wave the Yellow and the Black, O Wichita, Here's to you!
<HR>Shocker Fight Song




Go, you Shockers, fight the enemy,
Make them kneel before our Varsity,
We're behind you with our battle cry.
Indestructible we'll do or die for
Wichita State University.
We are brave and we're bold,
So we will Fight, Fight, Wichita, For the Black and Gold.


Go, you Shockers, fight the enemy,
Make them kneel before our Varsity,
We're behind you with our battle cry.
Indestructible we'll do or die for
Wichita State University.
We are brave and we're bold,
So we will Fight, Fight, Wichita, For the Black and Gold.

[WSUbballer]

Thanks.

I had no idea those two songs existed outside of the Alma Mater.

I'll stop the bashing now.. :helpsmilie:

[dakyne]

Is there an unwritten rule on VT that encourages being a professional agitator?

[MSNSaluki]

Wait a second, you are saying "if only Tatum hit that putback" and then you come back to me with "If my aunt had balls...."?

Hello Pot, Im kettle

I never said "if only Tatum had hit that putback" THIS is what I said ...

I had a hard time swallowing the arguments on how we got screwed by the refs when nobody would acknowledge Jamaal Tatum missed a wide-open put back with a minute or so to go that would have given SIU the lead.:no:

If if my aunt had balls ...

It's easier to blame the refs than Jamaal Tatum. And while I'm at it, our great defense allowed Kansas to shoot like 78% from the field in the second half. But, that was probably the refs fault, too.:doh:



All I'm saying is the Tatum play was of equal importance to the Kansas play where the Jayhawks got the new shot clock and scored but you and some of our fans won't even dare to bring up Tatum.

Reading comprehension. It's your friend.

[MSNSaluki]

You are may be ok with the stripes spotting the "big school" a few points, just because of who they are, but I am not ok with it. Why are you attributing the loss margin to the blown lay-up, vs. say a dunk after time has expired, or a basket interference play that was not called? Why is it that so many times in March, a "little" school plays a "big" school, the little school has a point spread to overcome, just to break even?

When there is $500 million worth of TV advertising at stake, there is an unholy alliance between CBS, the NCAA, and the "glamour schools". Example-Greg Oden throws Xavier player out of bounds, "ahhhh, what-the-heck, this is THE Ohio State, we've gotta keep them in the Dance!"

Bull*****.

It's a great conspiracy theory.
Call Oliver Stone.
I don't want to hear it.

[Aargh]

If anybody thought the reputation of WSU fans on VT couldn't go any lower, give a warm welcome to ShockNUrSister.

[MSNSaluki]

If anybody thought the reputation of WSU fans on VT couldn't go any lower, give a warm welcome to ShockNUrSister.

:lol::lol::lol::lol:
I just about pissed my pants laughing.

[DawgieStyle]

It's a great conspiracy theory.
Call Oliver Stone.
I don't want to hear it.

again if the game was close enough to be in the hand's of the ref's, you deserve to lose.

[C0|db|00ded]

You know it's true.

You should of read what the KU fans were saying about SIU after last years NCAA game. They couldn't believe anyone would really play basketball like SIU. I posted there and said welcome to my world Gheyhawks. SIU is a winning program but you guys still suck as you play the most ugly and disgusting form of basketball in existance.

Very true. I have learned that SIU-C will always be competitive as long as the "system" is in place. They are an anomaly by their own devices and they have somewhat "fixed" the system. They do not reload every year because they don't have to. The personnel on their teams is only a minor factor in their success. As long as Ugly BallTM is preached through the swamps and forests of Carbondale SIU-C will be competitive. Real basketball programs like KU will just have to suck it up when they play just like we do. Every team in the Valley must devise a completely separate strategy separate from their main team strategy each and every year to deal with SIU-C's garbage. While most games will involve a strategy to maximize their own teams' strengths, when playing SIU-C it will be to disrupt their disruptions. The game will melt down to a 30-45 contest and everybody will walk away from the event with an upset stomach (except the Saluki fans which have become hardened to it all by now). Even with this strategy SIU-C should win most of the games because they practice this abhorrent style of play 30 times a year while their opponent will only have one or two real tests.

It's a sad affair but that is why many pro teams have implemented "illegal defense rules" to contain this type of activity. It just breaks down the creator's original intentions of how the game should be played. I can guarantee you that Ugly BallTM wouldn't last for a second in the NBA -Revenues would drop by 50%.

In my prayers every night the last thing I thank the Lord is that the Shockers don't play Ugly BallTM


T


...:cool:

[DawgieStyle]

Very true. I have learned that SIU-C will always be competitive as long as the "system" is in place. They are an anomaly by their own devices and they have somewhat "fixed" the system. They do not reload every year because they don't have to. The personnel on their teams is only a minor factor in their success. As long as Ugly BallTM is preached through the swamps and forests of Carbondale SIU-C will be competitive. Real basketball programs like KU will just have to suck it up when they play just like we do. Every team in the Valley must devise a completely separate strategy separate from their main team strategy each and every year to deal with SIU-C's garbage. While most games will involve a strategy to maximize their own teams' strengths, when playing SIU-C it will be to disrupt their disruptions. The game will melt down to a 30-45 contest and everybody will walk away from the event with an upset stomach (except the Saluki fans which have become hardened to it all by now). Even with this strategy SIU-C should win most of the games because they practice this abhorrent style of play 30 times a year while their opponent will only have one or two real tests.

It's a sad affair but that is why many pro teams have implemented "illegal defense rules" to contain this type of activity. It just breaks down the creator's original intentions of how the game should be played. I can guarantee you that Ugly BallTM wouldn't last for a second in the NBA -Revenues would drop by 50%.

In my prayers every night the last thing I thank the Lord is that the Shockers don't play Ugly BallTM


T


...:cool:

Awwwww. how cute, Cold found a new friend. I wonder if you've actually ever played a game of basketball before? Because if you did, you'd understand just how physical the game is played by all teams at any age.

You long for the days of showtime and magic johnson, where no D was played and every trip down the floor was a behind the back pass while the D oooeed and awweeed and fawned over just how pretty it was.

A funny thing happened to "show time." Other teams wanted to win. So how do you combat that style...you punish them physically for it....you counter act it. You play Defense.....you become the Detroit Pistons.

[Brave2001]

If anybody thought the reputation of WSU fans on VT couldn't go any lower, give a warm welcome to ShockNUrSister.

Nope it just got lower, when COLD endorsed him.

Aargh, sometimes I swear you are the only sane person living in Kansas. You are one of the few Shocker posters on VT that I actually respect (one of the others is trying to piss that away lately).

[Webersback]

Very true. I have learned that SIU-C will always be competitive as long as the "system" is in place. They are an anomaly by their own devices and they have somewhat "fixed" the system. They do not reload every year because they don't have to. The personnel on their teams is only a minor factor in their success. As long as Ugly BallTM is preached through the swamps and forests of Carbondale SIU-C will be competitive. Real basketball programs like KU will just have to suck it up when they play just like we do. Every team in the Valley must devise a completely separate strategy separate from their main team strategy each and every year to deal with SIU-C's garbage. While most games will involve a strategy to maximize their own teams' strengths, when playing SIU-C it will be to disrupt their disruptions. The game will melt down to a 30-45 contest and everybody will walk away from the event with an upset stomach (except the Saluki fans which have become hardened to it all by now). Even with this strategy SIU-C should win most of the games because they practice this abhorrent style of play 30 times a year while their opponent will only have one or two real tests.

It's a sad affair but that is why many pro teams have implemented "illegal defense rules" to contain this type of activity. It just breaks down the creator's original intentions of how the game should be played. I can guarantee you that Ugly BallTM wouldn't last for a second in the NBA -Revenues would drop by 50%.

In my prayers every night the last thing I thank the Lord is that the Shockers don't play Ugly BallTM


T


...:cool:

PUKE!!!!!

Cold's old argument has returned...winning is a ***** isn't it? So Cold believes that SIU should just let teams run their offense to get their perfect shots like they do in practice, and see who can outscore the other team. That sure brings a lot of coaching into the game doesn't it? Far be if for Lowery to devise a defense to take the opposition out of its comfort zone and actually make it run its offense against some tough "D".

Again the idea of the game is to score at least one more point than your opponent and to win as many games as possible. Better athletes should be the difference against SIU as Kansas proved last year. The second half the Salukis could not stop the 1 on 1 moves of their bigger guards. SIU came close, but could not pull the game out against the Jayhawks.

Just win baby....

[Brave2001]

143

[WSUbballer]

(one of the others is trying to piss that away lately).

Because I think there's some over-hyping of SIU, I lose respect?

Is ribbing not allowed either? How about counter-arguing? Or defending? Or do I just have to follow the rules of communist China and agree with everything?

SIU will have plenty of chances to prove me wrong.

[MSNSaluki]

Very true. I have learned that SIU-C will always be competitive as long as the "system" is in place. They are an anomaly by their own devices and they have somewhat "fixed" the system. They do not reload every year because they don't have to. The personnel on their teams is only a minor factor in their success. As long as Ugly BallTM is preached through the swamps and forests of Carbondale SIU-C will be competitive. Real basketball programs like KU will just have to suck it up when they play just like we do. Every team in the Valley must devise a completely separate strategy separate from their main team strategy each and every year to deal with SIU-C's garbage. While most games will involve a strategy to maximize their own teams' strengths, when playing SIU-C it will be to disrupt their disruptions. The game will melt down to a 30-45 contest and everybody will walk away from the event with an upset stomach (except the Saluki fans which have become hardened to it all by now). Even with this strategy SIU-C should win most of the games because they practice this abhorrent style of play 30 times a year while their opponent will only have one or two real tests.

It's a sad affair but that is why many pro teams have implemented "illegal defense rules" to contain this type of activity. It just breaks down the creator's original intentions of how the game should be played. I can guarantee you that Ugly BallTM wouldn't last for a second in the NBA -Revenues would drop by 50%.

In my prayers every night the last thing I thank the Lord is that the Shockers don't play Ugly BallTM


T


...:cool:

Ah, James Naismith XII has returned to the board ... welcome back.:no:

[WSUbballer]

And on a personal note..

I think Cold and ShockNUrSister are sisters.

[MSNSaluki]

And on a personal note..

I think Cold and ShockNUrSister are sisters.

You know, I thought there was a connection when I first read the thoughts of ShockNUrSister a couple of days ago.:lol:

[Brave2001]

Because I think there's some over-hyping of SIU, I lose respect?

Is ribbing not allowed either? How about counter-arguing? Or defending? Or do I just have to follow the rules of communist China and agree with everything?

SIU will have plenty of chances to prove me wrong.

It's not the fact that you disagree....its that it seems to me that you are actually pissed about it....maybe I'm just reading into it too much. If I am, I apologize.

[WSUbballer]

It's not the fact that you disagree....its that it seems to me that you are actually pissed about it....maybe I'm just reading into it too much. If I am, I apologize.

There's better things to life than to get pissed over some internet banter. However, on occasion, I do tend to get riled up on a few things from time to time. I'd call it overly intense as opposed to pissed.

I sometimes get edgy, but it's never meant to be anything personal.

No need to apologize man.

[Aargh]

Nope it just got lower, when COLD endorsed him.

Aargh, sometimes I swear you are the only sane person living in Kansas. You are one of the few Shocker posters on VT that I actually respect (one of the others is trying to piss that away lately).

Thank you. Actually, I can jump into the sewer and play in the garbage fairly well, but with the level and overall skills of the trash-talkers out here, I find that neither challenging nor difficult. It's Just...Too...Easy!
:naughty::banana::naughty::banana::naughty::naught y::banana::naughty::banana:

Why doesn't my banana dance?

[DawgieStyle]

sigh, i need a beer.

[WSUbballer]

Or maybe a wine cooler?..

http://www.drinkalizer.com/cocktailbilder-/winecooler.jpg

:yes:

[MoValley John]

Or maybe a wine cooler?..

http://www.drinkalizer.com/cocktailbilder-/winecooler.jpg

:yes:

What are you, gay?




Not that there's anything wrong with it.

[Aargh]

When on VT, there's no point in anything less....
http://www.sitv.com/blogs/whatshot/wp-content/uploads/everclear.jpg

[WSUbballer]

What are you, gay?




Not that there's anything wrong with it.

It was a suggestion for Dawgie..

Not that there's anything wrong with it.

[dakyne]

I guess the NBA is a superior product. I wasn't aware there was still an NBA franchise in Kansas. Are the Kings still there?:innocent:

BTW, I think this poll is a bit too suggestive: the same poll could be asked of every team. It is very tough to sweep a team during any season.

[MoValley John]

This is an old, old picture, passed around the Internet for years. I think it originated shortly after Al Gore invented the Internet. In fact, I believe Al Gore staged and took the picture himself. Rumor has it, he also processed it in his own dark room, eventually enlarging the photo onto Kodak Polymax RT Black and White Paper. Kodak has since discontinued production of black and white paper. Anyway, this picture is a classic and very well suited for a Friday afternoon. Thanks, Al!

http://www.dansmojo.com/StuffBigBeer.jpg

[WSUbballer]

I guess the NBA is a superior product. I wasn't aware there was still an NBA franchise in Kansas. Are the Kings still there?:innocent:

The Kings were in Missouri.. :innocent:

BTW, I think this poll is a bit too suggestive: the same poll could be asked of every team. It is very tough to sweep a team during any season.

Maybe you should bring this up with the author of the poll..

BTW, are we on a truce yet?

[C0|db|00ded]

PUKE!!!!!

Cold's old argument has returned...winning is a ***** isn't it? So Cold believes that SIU should just let teams run their offense to get their perfect shots like they do in practice, and see who can outscore the other team. That sure brings a lot of coaching into the game doesn't it? Far be if for Lowery to devise a defense to take the opposition out of its comfort zone and actually make it run its offense against some tough "D".

Again the idea of the game is to score at least one more point than your opponent and to win as many games as possible. Better athletes should be the difference against SIU as Kansas proved last year. The second half the Salukis could not stop the 1 on 1 moves of their bigger guards. SIU came close, but could not pull the game out against the Jayhawks.

Just win baby....

Far be if for Lowery to devise a defense to take the opposition out of its comfort zone and actually make it run its offense against some tough "D".

You're right, I'm wrong... Lowery is a coaching genius. It is because of Lowery's tremendous experience and I.Q. that the Saluki's win basketball games.


T


...:cool:

[dakyne]

wsuballer,

Maybe you should bring this up with the author of the poll..

Nah, not worth it--he got the responses he expected, in all probability. I think it's a bit much to EXPECT to win a game on the road in the MVC, no matter how much of a disparity in talent. I recall SIU at times had more trouble closing on the road against alleged "weaker" teams in the Valley--even when they won the Valley regular season title convincingly.



BTW, are we on a truce yet?

No again--it's just that some of your most recent posts are reasonable, and I happen to agree with them. I gotta give credit where credit is due. Some of your earlier posts wreaked of envy and was annoying some fans from other schools. No biggie--we've all moved on. The Quincy game signifies the start of another season, so I would imagine the posting count will go up on VT. Mine won't--at least not on VT, and perhaps not as much on ST. I'm not a speed reader, and coincidentally, business is picking up.

[dakyne]

clod,

You're right, I'm wrong... Lowery is a coaching genius. It is because of Lowery's tremendous experience and I.Q. that the Saluki's win basketball games.

Coming from you, I'm going to make the outlandish assumption that you're being sarcastic. However, the joke is actually on you because that is exactly what basketball pundits are saying about CLowery and the Salukis. And at the end of the day, his new contract speaks a lot more about the confidence the Administration has placed in CLow--much more so than a troll on a sports message board.:no:

[Dawgbit]

It's a great conspiracy theory.
Call Oliver Stone.
I don't want to hear it.

First chance you get, pull you head out of your arse.:no:

[MSNSaluki]

First chance you get, pull you head out of your arse.:no:

Nah, I'll keep it where it is ... I can't hear the whining about the refs from there.:lol:

You are right ... CBS will take a George Mason or an SIU once in a blue moon but they prefer to have marquee schools advance deep in the NCAA tournament. Jim Nantz and Billy Packer have taught us that.

But I can't wrap my arms around a conspiracy that has CBS working in concert with the NCAA to hire officials who will ensure that Kansas and Ohio State don't get beat by SIU and Xavier.

Didn't Xavier have a 10-point lead with a minute to go in regulation? I'm pretty sure that's right. However, you want to blame one call (it was a horrible call)? Please. If a college basketball team can't hold a 10-point lead with a minute to go they don't deserve to win, no matter how bad that one call was during that span.

And if our best player couldn't hit a wide-open put back and our vaunted defense couldn't keep a team from shooting 78% from the field in the second half, we didn't deserve to move on, either.

Just my opinion. Peace.

[WSUbballer]

MSN owned that point. Wasn't even close..

[Dawgbit]

Yes it is all fair, from Selection Sunday on, that's why there were 7 ACC teams in, only one made it to S16. The whole freaking system is corrupt, and getting worse:

Shame On the Selection Committee

By John Feinstein
Special to washingtonpost.com
Wednesday, March 14, 2007; 6:54 PM


Here's what bothers me about the NCAA Men's Basketball Committee: Everything.

Don't get me wrong I like all of them personally. They're good men, hard-working and sincere. It's just that they have come to believe through the years that when they select the 65 team NCAA Tournament field that they are doing work only slightly more important and grueling than finding a cure for cancer.

Every year we hear about how difficult the selection process is. We hear about how tough it is to spend four days locked up in a hotel suite on the top floor of The Indianapolis Westin Hotel. Oh my God, is it hard to pick those last few teams. And the brackets. Splitting the atom was a walk in the park compared to doing the brackets.

They go through reams of computer printouts. They look at tapes of teams playing. They argue and scream at one another. They compare RPI's and strength of schedule and wins on the road versus wins at home. It is all so complicated and so exhausting it's a wonder they can even return to their homes and families -- first class of course -- with even a piece of their sanity intact.

Here's the thing. I have a friend named Bill Brill. He's a retired sportswriter. Every year on Saturday night he sits down at a table with a blank bracket and about four beers. Okay, maybe five. He has no computer printouts, no staff and no one on call to get him anything his heart might desire. He has a few friends shouting at him that he's crazy if he thinks the CAA is going to get three bids. That's about it.

Armed with his beer and his shouting friends, Brill puts together a bracket in about an hour. Maybe 90 minutes if his dinner reservation that night is a little bit later than usual. Usually he has about 63 of the same teams the committee comes up with. His seedings are virtually identical. Maybe he had Maryland as a No. 5 instead of a No. 4 this year. He might have had Gonzaga as a No. 11 instead of a No. 10. Basically though, it is the same bracket.

Except, it's better.

You see Brill isn't affected by politics. He isn't intimidated by the specter of Big Ten commissioner Jim Delaney, an ex-committee chairman who is known among those who follow the sport as the Darth Vader of college basketball. No doubt Delaney and the Emperor were not pleased last year when the committee had the audacity to put George Mason, Wichita State and Bradley into the field from mid-major conferences and left out Florida State, Maryland and Indiana on the rather simple principle that they hadn't played anyone.
We all know how that worked out. George Mason became the best story in college basketball in 40 years. Wichita State and Bradley made the round of 16, and while everyone in the ACC was screaming how unfair it was that the Missouri Valley Conference -- which is where Wichita State and Bradley are from --had gotten as many bids (4) as the ACC, the fact is the Missouri Valley -- even with lower seeding positions -- got as many teams (2) to the round of 16 as the ACC did.

There's no doubt in my mind that Darth Vader and his companions from The Empire (the other power conference commissioners) went into action last spring, summer and fall. This can't happen again, they told the committee members. The NCAA tournament, in spite of rumors to the contrary, isn't about what is best for basketball and what is most fair to the players and coaches. It is about us. It is about how much money we make from the tournament (millions) and how we use making the tournament as a tool (recruiting) to ensure that we keep making more millions.

Well, the committee members certainly got the message. No Death Star for them. They went into their meetings in their Ivory Tower last weekend and came up with the following idea: Illinois and Purdue, both teams from Delaney's Big Ten, deserved bids. Forget the fact that their road victories this season came over Big Ten weaklings Northwestern and Penn State and, in the case of Illinois, a win over Minnesota which is almost as bad as Northwestern and Penn State. Forget the fact that the nine teams in the Big Ten not named Ohio State and Wisconsin won a total of 16 road games all season. They deserve to be in the tournament.

But Drexel didn't deserve a bid.

Take a guess how many road games Drexel won this season. How about 14. That's one school winning 14 games away from home versus nine winning 16. Who did the Dragons beat? Syracuse, Villanova, Creighton, St. Joseph's and several very good CAA teams. You see when you're in the CAA, no one from a power conference will play you on the road. Maryland Coach Gary Williams complained last year when The Missouri Valley got those four bids that the league had, "cracked the RPI code."

Here's what they did to crack the code: they played good teams on the road and won. Sounds pretty evil to me.

Drexel cracked the code too. Except it had the misfortune to play in a league that had three other very good teams. It finished fourth in the CAA behind Virginia Commonwealth, Old Dominion and Hofstra. The first two got into the tournament. Committee chairman Gary Walters, who was a teammate of Bill Bradley's at Princeton and should know good basketball when he sees it, explained that Drexel finishing fourth in the CAA had been the problem as if the committee could only take Old Dominion or Drexel and not both.
I mean, God forbid we should leave out Illinois and Purdue. The wrath of Darth Vader might come down upon us.

Here's the problem with Walter's remarkably specious argument (after all you would expect more from a Princeton grad): the committee also left out Syracuse. Upon further review, Syracuse finished ahead of both Marquette and Villanova in the Big East. In fact, it beat Marquette, at Marquette, and was the only team to beat Georgetown any place in the last six weeks. Last time I checked, if you beat someone on their court and all other things are pretty much equal -- or in this case unequal -- since Syracuse, let me repeat this, finished ahead of Marquette, you are considered the better team.

Nope, the committee said, Syracuse is out. Don't misunderstand. I think Marquette should have been in the field. Illinois should not have been, nor should Purdue. Throw in the fact that Arkansas, 7-9 in the Southeastern Conference, should also have been left out, and Missouri State should have been in, and you have the right field.

That was Brill's field after his fourth (okay, maybe fifth) beer. That was my field too. The difference is we don't have Darth Vader and friends looking over our shoulder. The committee can explain from here to eternity the torture it went through in picking the field. The bottom line is this: they got it wrong. They should be ashamed of what they did, especially to Drexel, a little school trying to overcome long odds to make the field. They sat there for four days with all their printouts and information and their satellite TV dishes and they flat out blew it.

Maybe they should have had a few more beers.

[MSNSaluki]

Yes it is all fair, from Selection Sunday on, that's why there were 7 ACC teams in, only one made it to S16. The whole freaking system is corrupt, and getting worse:

Shame On the Selection Committee

By John Feinstein
Special to washingtonpost.com
Wednesday, March 14, 2007; 6:54 PM


Here's what bothers me about the NCAA Men's Basketball Committee: Everything.

Don't get me wrong I like all of them personally. They're good men, hard-working and sincere. It's just that they have come to believe through the years that when they select the 65 team NCAA Tournament field that they are doing work only slightly more important and grueling than finding a cure for cancer.

Every year we hear about how difficult the selection process is. We hear about how tough it is to spend four days locked up in a hotel suite on the top floor of The Indianapolis Westin Hotel. Oh my God, is it hard to pick those last few teams. And the brackets. Splitting the atom was a walk in the park compared to doing the brackets.

They go through reams of computer printouts. They look at tapes of teams playing. They argue and scream at one another. They compare RPI's and strength of schedule and wins on the road versus wins at home. It is all so complicated and so exhausting it's a wonder they can even return to their homes and families -- first class of course -- with even a piece of their sanity intact.

Here's the thing. I have a friend named Bill Brill. He's a retired sportswriter. Every year on Saturday night he sits down at a table with a blank bracket and about four beers. Okay, maybe five. He has no computer printouts, no staff and no one on call to get him anything his heart might desire. He has a few friends shouting at him that he's crazy if he thinks the CAA is going to get three bids. That's about it.

Armed with his beer and his shouting friends, Brill puts together a bracket in about an hour. Maybe 90 minutes if his dinner reservation that night is a little bit later than usual. Usually he has about 63 of the same teams the committee comes up with. His seedings are virtually identical. Maybe he had Maryland as a No. 5 instead of a No. 4 this year. He might have had Gonzaga as a No. 11 instead of a No. 10. Basically though, it is the same bracket.

Except, it's better.

You see Brill isn't affected by politics. He isn't intimidated by the specter of Big Ten commissioner Jim Delaney, an ex-committee chairman who is known among those who follow the sport as the Darth Vader of college basketball. No doubt Delaney and the Emperor were not pleased last year when the committee had the audacity to put George Mason, Wichita State and Bradley into the field from mid-major conferences and left out Florida State, Maryland and Indiana on the rather simple principle that they hadn't played anyone.
We all know how that worked out. George Mason became the best story in college basketball in 40 years. Wichita State and Bradley made the round of 16, and while everyone in the ACC was screaming how unfair it was that the Missouri Valley Conference -- which is where Wichita State and Bradley are from --had gotten as many bids (4) as the ACC, the fact is the Missouri Valley -- even with lower seeding positions -- got as many teams (2) to the round of 16 as the ACC did.

There's no doubt in my mind that Darth Vader and his companions from The Empire (the other power conference commissioners) went into action last spring, summer and fall. This can't happen again, they told the committee members. The NCAA tournament, in spite of rumors to the contrary, isn't about what is best for basketball and what is most fair to the players and coaches. It is about us. It is about how much money we make from the tournament (millions) and how we use making the tournament as a tool (recruiting) to ensure that we keep making more millions.

Well, the committee members certainly got the message. No Death Star for them. They went into their meetings in their Ivory Tower last weekend and came up with the following idea: Illinois and Purdue, both teams from Delaney's Big Ten, deserved bids. Forget the fact that their road victories this season came over Big Ten weaklings Northwestern and Penn State and, in the case of Illinois, a win over Minnesota which is almost as bad as Northwestern and Penn State. Forget the fact that the nine teams in the Big Ten not named Ohio State and Wisconsin won a total of 16 road games all season. They deserve to be in the tournament.

But Drexel didn't deserve a bid.

Take a guess how many road games Drexel won this season. How about 14. That's one school winning 14 games away from home versus nine winning 16. Who did the Dragons beat? Syracuse, Villanova, Creighton, St. Joseph's and several very good CAA teams. You see when you're in the CAA, no one from a power conference will play you on the road. Maryland Coach Gary Williams complained last year when The Missouri Valley got those four bids that the league had, "cracked the RPI code."

Here's what they did to crack the code: they played good teams on the road and won. Sounds pretty evil to me.

Drexel cracked the code too. Except it had the misfortune to play in a league that had three other very good teams. It finished fourth in the CAA behind Virginia Commonwealth, Old Dominion and Hofstra. The first two got into the tournament. Committee chairman Gary Walters, who was a teammate of Bill Bradley's at Princeton and should know good basketball when he sees it, explained that Drexel finishing fourth in the CAA had been the problem as if the committee could only take Old Dominion or Drexel and not both.
I mean, God forbid we should leave out Illinois and Purdue. The wrath of Darth Vader might come down upon us.

Here's the problem with Walter's remarkably specious argument (after all you would expect more from a Princeton grad): the committee also left out Syracuse. Upon further review, Syracuse finished ahead of both Marquette and Villanova in the Big East. In fact, it beat Marquette, at Marquette, and was the only team to beat Georgetown any place in the last six weeks. Last time I checked, if you beat someone on their court and all other things are pretty much equal -- or in this case unequal -- since Syracuse, let me repeat this, finished ahead of Marquette, you are considered the better team.

Nope, the committee said, Syracuse is out. Don't misunderstand. I think Marquette should have been in the field. Illinois should not have been, nor should Purdue. Throw in the fact that Arkansas, 7-9 in the Southeastern Conference, should also have been left out, and Missouri State should have been in, and you have the right field.

That was Brill's field after his fourth (okay, maybe fifth) beer. That was my field too. The difference is we don't have Darth Vader and friends looking over our shoulder. The committee can explain from here to eternity the torture it went through in picking the field. The bottom line is this: they got it wrong. They should be ashamed of what they did, especially to Drexel, a little school trying to overcome long odds to make the field. They sat there for four days with all their printouts and information and their satellite TV dishes and they flat out blew it.

Maybe they should have had a few more beers.

First off, my Saluki brother, you're preaching to the choir. I know the selection process is corrupt. But while SIU has made the most of its opportunity the past six years, you can argue the Salukis got their chance in the spotlight simply because Doug Elgin was the chair of the selection committee in 2002. The system in place gave birth to what we have today, like it or not.:yes:

But you've veered way off course from the orginal question we were debatng - Did SIU get screwed in the NCAA tournament last year? I say no, we had our chances to overcome the bad calls. You say yes. We agree to disagree.

[Ricky Del Rio]

Nah, I'll keep it where it is ... I can't hear the whining about the refs from there.:lol:

You are right ... CBS will take a George Mason or an SIU once in a blue moon but they prefer to have marquee schools advance deep in the NCAA tournament. Jim Nantz and Billy Packer have taught us that.

But I can't wrap my arms around a conspiracy that has CBS working in concert with the NCAA to hire officials who will ensure that Kansas and Ohio State don't get beat by SIU and Xavier.

Didn't Xavier have a 10-point lead with a minute to go in regulation? I'm pretty sure that's right. However, you want to blame one call (it was a horrible call)? Please. If a college basketball team can't hold a 10-point lead with a minute to go they don't deserve to win, no matter how bad that one call was during that span.

And if our best player couldn't hit a wide-open put back and our vaunted defense couldn't keep a team from shooting 78% from the field in the second half, we didn't deserve to move on, either.

Just my opinion. Peace.

A thoughtful post.

I hope to meet you in STL sometime.

dlm