Valley status

[CaliRdBrd]

I guess I'm being pessamistic, but I'm viewing the beginning of this season as a huge setback in terms of respectability. We had a good thing going for a couple of years, but in order to make the much desired leap to next level, we're heading in the wrong direction...and in a hurry.

As I see it right now, it seems highly unliklely that we'll be seeing more than one bid.

Sorry, but that ISU loss tonight was a staggering blow for me as I'm so desperately seeking some redemption for a program that has been down for far too long.

[Nyghtewynd]

There could still be someone to win a couple of games, but we're a guaranteed one-bid conference right now. Everyone who's had a chance to do something of note has blown it.

[bcrawf]

You can't count UNI out of the at-large picture just yet. We had the one bad loss, but looking ahead we should finish out the Non-Con portion at 9-1. If we can win 11-12 Valley games (very reasonable expectation) and draw and win one of the premiere BracketBuster games that makes us 21-8 headed for St. Louis. That, I believe gets us in with one win down there.

You also can't count out Creighton and Bradley just yet either. It's December 4, there is a lot of basketball to be played...

[Aegyptus]

Settle down. We are still going to be a top 7-8 RPI conference. One of our teams will have a good conference slate and get to 22-23 wins and get an auto birth if they don't win the tourney. Creighton is still looking very good. SIU has 2 losses, but to 2 excellent teams (USC took Kansas and Memphis to the limit - may still beat Memphis tonight in OT). They have a couple problems, but nothing that can't be solved. Even though Bradley lost, they hung with Michigan State and showed the team they can be. Etc. etc. etc.

I agree. The Illinois State loss is a mystery. But, they have a new coach and there still may be some confusion about how to play. Don't forget, Northern Illinois beat Air Force tonight, so it happens to the best mid-majors. We are still home to many of the best mid-majors. The only other ones I see as at larges at this point are Butler, X, Zags, St. Marys, Miami, and maybe BYU. But, they will all lose too. There is still plenty of room for a couple or few Valley teams to get in the mix.

It is far too early to write off the Valley as a one-bid league.

[WSUbballer]

It's been hard enough getting Valley teams into the NCAA's with a slough of marquee wins on the ol' Valley resume. With really none so far this year, it doesn't look so promising.

Sidenote: As for UNI, what win negates the bad SDSU loss? Is there one? A solid bracketbuster win may help negate it, but that's it - negate it.. which means things would even out and UNI would be left with zero marquee wins on its resume. Win 15+ conference games and we'll talk. 11 or 12 won't cut it.. at least not right now.

[NoPlaceLikeDome]

It's been hard enough getting Valley teams into the NCAA's with a slough of marquee wins on the ol' Valley resume. With really none so far this year, it doesn't look so promising.

Sidenote: As for UNI, what win negates the bad SDSU loss? Is there one? A solid bracketbuster win may help negate it, but that's it - negate it.. which means things would even out and UNI would be left with zero marquee wins on its resume. Win 15+ conference games and we'll talk. 11 or 12 won't cut it.. at least not right now.

So far the UMass win seems to be a good win. Plus, reguardless of how good they are wins over Iowa State and then Iowa and Nevada (assuming we hopefully win both) always look good on a resume. That combined with a strong performance in the Valley (hopefully 12 wins) and a BrackBuster win could get us an at large.

There is a lot of ifs in that, but if the teams comes together at the right times and plays solid, we have the talent for it to happen.

[JayPak]

I agree. The Illinois State loss is a mystery. But, they have a new coach and there still may be some confusion about how to play. Don't forget, Northern Illinois beat Air Force tonight, so it happens to the best mid-majors. We are still home to many of the best mid-majors. The only other ones I see as at larges at this point are Butler, X, Zags, St. Marys, Miami, and maybe BYU. But, they will all lose too. There is still plenty of room for a couple or few Valley teams to get in the mix.

It is far too early to write off the Valley as a one-bid league.

I wouldn't say it's a mystery; the Redbirds simply haven't learned to win away from home. They are a dangerous home team already and if they learn to win on the road I'm convinced they'll finish 2nd or 3rd in the league. Don't forget Xavier as one of the best mid-majors.

I agree that for UNI the UMass win negates the SDSU loss, but that leaves them back at neutral and they need to keep performing.

[Aegyptus]

I wouldn't say it's a mystery; the Redbirds simply haven't learned to win away from home. They are a dangerous home team already and if they learn to win on the road I'm convinced they'll finish 2nd or 3rd in the league. Don't forget Xavier as one of the best mid-majors.

I agree that for UNI the UMass win negates the SDSU loss, but that leaves them back at neutral and they need to keep performing.

X = Xavier.

If winning on the road is the problem, then it is a big problem. You not only need to be able to win on the road, but you need to thrive on the road to win in the Valley away from Normal. Don't worry too much about the loss. They happen. The important thing is to learn from it and not let it happen again. Need to win the rest of your OOC games. The Cincy win will still look decent, even though Cincy is horrible now.

The Valley will survive and we will still be looking at multiple bid prospects come March. Perhaps we will be a one bid league, but it is not a guarantee at this point. It is still more likely than not that we will be a multiple bid league. If 3-4 Valley teams have 20+ wins it is going to be hard for us not to get 2 teams in the dance.

On top of all of that (and really I am not drinking the kool-aid) I think we are going to be talking about a different Southern Illinois team come the Butler game at the end of this month. SIU has a lot of games to get better between now and then and I expect significant improvement. If SIU wins these next games (which are all tough but SIU should win), even with a Butler loss, and holding their own in the Valley, they will be looking at an at-large. The committee is not going to hold those losses to Indiana, USC and maybe Butler against them. The deciding game for SIU may be Saint Mary's next week in Carbondale. A win there should improve their standing significantly.

If SIU or Creighton can hold down an at-large, we should be looking at multiple bids again. Then anything from UNI, Bradley, Wichita, Mo St., ISU red, or heck even Drake will be gravy. The only 2 "bad" teams in the Valley right now are Evansville and Indiana State. Very few conferences can claim to only have 2 bad teams at this point in the season and the Valley is one. We should be proud of that.

[MoValley John]

If the season ended today, Creighton would be in. Based on a couple factors, reputation and quality of losses, SIU would be in as well. Wichita State is rallying and may get on the bubble soon, where they would be keeping company with Drake. Missouri State would once again be out, but I think Northern Iowa is a bubble team right now.

It is way too early to start predicting this stuff and by the end of the season, some of those bad losses may turn into quality losses, who knows? Anyway, right now, the Valley isn't a one-bid league, it just doesn't look like people thought it would before the season started.

[outpost]

Writing as a coach, I don't even want to think about bids.

I just want to see our team continue to get better each and every day. I want them to play together, pick each other up when they encounter adversity, maintain good grades, have fun together off the court, and develop a reputation as good citizens in their communities.

So far, I'm pleased. But there's still work to do. And it's a long way from thinking about how many bids will be handed out.

So dispel those thoughts about bids from your minds and keep getting after it.

:valley:, but most of all :shockers:

[getreal4]

So far the UMass win seems to be a good win. Plus, reguardless of how good they are wins over Iowa State and then Iowa and Nevada (assuming we hopefully win both) always look good on a resume. That combined with a strong performance in the Valley (hopefully 12 wins) and a BrackBuster win could get us an at large.

There is a lot of ifs in that, but if the teams comes together at the right times and plays solid, we have the talent for it to happen.


Wins over Iowa and Iowa St will be meaningless come Selection Sunday. Losing to SDSU offsets a the UMass win. Beat Nevada and win 13 conference games, win the Valley tourney or the panther's season ends in St Louis.

[RoyalShock]

Too many bad losses and the lack of marquee wins means multiple bids will have to be had one of two ways (barring a total turnaround and an amazing finish to the non-con):

1. One team escapes the MVC schedule with 3 or fewer losses, and loses in the conf. tournament. You know, Elgin wrote the book on this strategy! :yes:

2. Two teams separate themselves from the rest of the pack, each also getting at least 15 conference victories.

[DawgFan]

I think you're right Royal, other than 14 may work instead of 15. Problem is I don't see two teams, let alone one, who will make strategy #2 work. Maybe someone gets real good and strategy #1 works. It has in the past.

[jayfan04]

I think that if the Jays can win their next two against Xavier and St. Joes they would really have to stick out in the Valley. If they win these next two more then likely they will go unbeaten in the non-conference with the toughest remaining matchup being Arkansas Little Rock. This would give the Jays wins against two BCS teams plus a top 25 ranked Xavier. This would also probably help them to get one of the more marquee bracketbuster games on the road. However, there is no predicting what will happen in the Valley. So let's just sit back and watch. :jays::valley:

[Majik45]

If Bradley wins their last 3 non-conf. games, plus the bracketbuster, they could have an outside shot at an at-large bid. Bradley plays at Wright State, at Butler, and home against VCU, so those would be three good wins, with the marquee win being at Butler. Close losses to Vandy and Michigan State look good on the resume, but that loss at UIC still sticks out like a sore thumb. Of course, winning the next 3 non-conf. games is a tough task to say the least.

[shockerfan13]

While I'm not giving up on this year, all I keep thinking about is the next few years. I mean think about it, with all the changes in players and coaches and to still be winning about 70% of the non-conf games and teams at least giving the "big boys" a run for their money most of the time really shows me how scary good this league is going to be once again VERY soon. While this may be a "down" year overall, I don't think it's going to take long to be getting 3-4 bids again.

[Aegyptus]

While I'm not giving up on this year, all I keep thinking about is the next few years. I mean think about it, with all the changes in players and coaches and to still be winning about 70% of the non-conf games and teams at least giving the "big boys" a run for their money most of the time really shows me how scary good this league is going to be once again VERY soon. While this may be a "down" year overall, I don't think it's going to take long to be getting 3-4 bids again.

That is right on. One or two or three this year ... in a couple years it is not going to matter when the new coaches and players settle in. Let's just hope we can keep everyone in place.

[Dawg_tired]

It's a long season and the abyss threatens. There isn't a team in this league that can't tank. UNI fans are drinking kool-aid but IMO will wake up with a hang over. SIU hasn't proven thus far that they are an upper division team. Drake fans are crossing our fingers but won't be surprised by a meltdown. Illannoy State drank UNI's Kool-aid and have come to the realization that waking up with a hangover sucks. Mo State's discontentment has kept them sane and realistic. WSU's usual bravado has been replaced by quiet thoughts of "We hope we get better."
They Sycs and Aces don't see light. CU is confident, but Arkansas is a much better team without Altman.

[C0|db|00ded]

I hate to burst anyone's bubble but the Valley isn't, wasn't (except for a long long time ago with different membership), and won't be a major conference. There are just too many no-name, low-budget programs in here and the NCAA is already saturated with BCS and BCS-wannabes in the 6 major conferences loaded with cash. If you don't have dollar bills you can't even get past the security guard at the gate.

Wichita State is the only program that approaches major status in the Valley and the best we could hope for would be to join CUSA and sniff the coat-tails of a Memphis. A non-football conference is NEVER going to get any legitimate respect and will always be discounted by BCS supporters at EVERY opportunity.

The NCAA committee has already nearly completely discounted the RPI when the Valley showed it could manipulate it so we are back to having to beat "name" programs to get ANY legitimate respect. And if we don't look good doing it (ie. big, flashy athletes) we will be discounted yet again.

The only way for the Valley to become a major conference is to consistently beat current major conferences out of 4 and 5 star recruits. Wake me up when that happens...


T


...:cool:

[Ictjay]

It's a long season and the abyss threatens. There isn't a team in this league that can't tank. UNI fans are drinking kool-aid but IMO will wake up with a hang over. SIU hasn't proven thus far that they are an upper division team. Drake fans are crossing our fingers but won't be surprised by a meltdown. Illannoy State drank UNI's Kool-aid and have come to the realization that waking up with a hangover sucks. Mo State's discontentment has kept them sane and realistic. WSU's usual bravado has been replaced by quiet thoughts of "We hope we get better."
They Sycs and Aces don't see light. CU is confident, but Arkansas is a much better team without Altman.

Very well put.(except for the last comment) The majority of the season lies ahead. But the next 3-4 games will give us all a good idea of whats to come.

[Ictjay]

[QUOTE=C0|Wichita State is the only program that approaches major status in the Valley and the best we could hope for would be to join CUSA and sniff the coat-tails of a Memphis.
Wrong

A non-football conference is NEVER going to get any legitimate respect and will always be discounted by BCS supporters at EVERY opportunity.

Right

[MoValley John]

I hate to burst anyone's bubble but the Valley isn't, wasn't (except for a long long time ago with different membership), and won't be a major conference. There are just too many no-name, low-budget programs in here and the NCAA is already saturated with BCS and BCS-wannabes in the 6 major conferences loaded with cash. If you don't have dollar bills you can't even get past the security guard at the gate.

Wichita State is the only program that approaches major status in the Valley and the best we could hope for would be to join CUSA and sniff the coat-tails of a Memphis. A non-football conference is NEVER going to get any legitimate respect and will always be discounted by BCS supporters at EVERY opportunity.

The NCAA committee has already nearly completely discounted the RPI when the Valley showed it could manipulate it so we are back to having to beat "name" programs to get ANY legitimate respect. And if we don't look good doing it (ie. big, flashy athletes) we will be discounted yet again.

The only way for the Valley to become a major conference is to consistently beat current major conferences out of 4 and 5 star recruits. Wake me up when that happens...


T


...:cool:

I didn't know this was a women's bowling thread. :lol::lol::lol:

[C0|db|00ded]

I didn't know this was a women's bowling thread. :lol::lol::lol:

Oh if you are talking about women's bowling we would be classified as a dynasty! :original:

I'm merely talking about tradition, fan-base, financial resources, facilities, private jets, you know, the stuff usually associated with major status.


T


...:cool:

[MoValley John]

Oh if you are talking about women's bowling we would be classified as a dynasty! :original:

I'm merely talking about tradition, fan-base, financial resources, facilities, private jets, you know, the stuff usually associated with major status.


T


...:cool:

Yeah, you're right. At a minimum, $30 million athletic budgets, 20,000 students, football teams, all the bells and whistles. :lol::lol::lol:

On a side note, why do you get off on the idea of sniffing anyone's arse?

[Poco Ace]

I have a great idea to ensure that the Valley is a two bid league. At least one team needs to prove itself of an at-large bid, though that is still a tall order at this point. Then, throw the Valley tournament for UE so they get the auto bid and the league gets two teams in. I'm sure the Aces would be happy to help the Valley get two bids in this way. Great idea right? :clap: :aces: :banana:

But more seriously, the Valley had to be down this year. The turnover from last season to this season, both players and coaches, was huge. It's just the distance of the apparent setback that is surprising. I won't write off a correction before the end of this season, but I'm not very optimistic. However, I do believe future seasons will be more like those of the recent past, rather than this one. :Jumpy:

[txsaluki05]

Oh if you are talking about women's bowling we would be classified as a dynasty! :original:

I'm merely talking about tradition, fan-base, financial resources, facilities, private jets, you know, the stuff usually associated with major status.


T


...:cool:

I'd rather be a winning "mid-major" than a "major" that doesn't do squat, b/c eventually the $$ will catch up to the on-court success.

[DoubleJayAlum]

On a side note, why do you get off on the idea of sniffing anyone's arse?

One word and it's spelled: G - A - Y! (Not that there's anything wrong with that :lol:).

The alleged girlfriend is a beard.