Clash of the titans: MSU @ WSU Thread

[BearChief]

Should be a real barn burner Tuesday night in Wichita. I'm pulling for the Shox. Anything that earns Barry his bus ticket back to Oklahoma ASAP.

[Clawinball]

SHOX 75
MSU 62 The sooner the better, it's time to clean house! :yes: :bears:

[Bear Phlegm]

"Well, Art we are again playing without three starters!"

I can already hear Barry's pregame speech -

"Tonight we dine in Wichita!" :grin:

[Nyghtewynd]

I'm pretty much to the point where I almost want MSU to lose out.

[Ricky Del Rio]

Should be a real barn burner Tuesday night in Wichita. I'm pulling for the Shox. Anything that earns Barry his bus ticket back to Oklahoma ASAP.

I have some bad news for you. The Shockers are playing walk-ons as in plural walk-ons.

Lack of talent + injuries + slow development + new system + lack of size + lack of athleticism + lack of depth + walk-ons + bad breaks = 10 seed = Shuckers.

For Bee Line's angst, I wanted the Aces to win. However, I must admit, I thought the Bars would win without much difficulty.

I still do not know how the Shockers defeated LSU and UAB.

[BearChief]

The Shockers are playing walk-ons, the Bears play multiple scholarship players who have less talent than a lot of walk-ons. No difference. Should be a wonderful match-up. Please Shox, win this game.

[shock-it-to-me]

Sorry Bearchief, but your guys will have to play their worst game of the year times 10 in order to lose to the happless Shockers. There are one or two high school teams in Wichita that would give the Shockers all they want.

[Nyghtewynd]

At least it seems that WSU is still trying. It sounds like MSU flat-out quit yesterday. If you put more than 18 people in that building, they may do the same.

[JerryBearSeinfeld]

lets go Municipal University of Wichita, losing to the 2 worst team in the MVC back to back should help with getting Barry out of Springfield :shockers:

[BearChief]

Sorry Bearchief, but your guys will have to play their worst game of the year times 10 in order to lose to the happless Shockers. There are one or two high school teams in Wichita that would give the Shockers all they want.

Look, I don't doubt that the Shockers are bad right now, but I have an agenda to push here. Quit raining on my parade.

:shockers::shockers::shockers::shockers::shockers: :shockers::shockers::shockers:

[WuDrWu]

I have some bad news for you. The Shockers are playing walk-ons as in plural walk-ons.

Lack of talent + injuries + slow development + new system + lack of size + lack of athleticism + lack of depth + walk-ons + bad breaks = 10 seed = Shuckers.

For Bee Line's angst, I wanted the Aces to win. However, I must admit, I thought the Bars would win without much difficulty.

I still do not know how the Shockers defeated LSU and UAB.


Not only are we playing multiple walk-ons, we are hoping like hell to get another walk-on BACK so he can play point.

[Clawinball]

lets go Municipal University of Wichita, losing to the 2 worst team in the MVC back to back should help with getting Barry out of Springfield :shockers:
Lets hope so, i'm so tired of seeing Hinson on the sidelines that i wished someone would tackle him and take him out of the game! :lol: :helpsmilie: :bears:

[TNMSUFAN]

Another player hurt out for the Bears and we will be down to 8 for Tuesday's game

http://www.news-leader.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080127/BLOGS0701/80127012

Is there anyway we can just play horse or something

[shock-it-to-me]

thank god this game is on national TV :doh:. This one will set the Valley back 10 years...

[smsandmsuson]

Come on Shuckers. Make it two against the bottom feeders of the conference. Oh wait, we are a bottom feeder. I guess I cant feel too bad if we lose

[RoyalShock]

Why the heck did ESPN choose to put both WSU-MSU games on?

I'm glad I didn't get the DirecTV sports package just for this game.

[MoValley John]

I was feeling pretty good for a Monday, now I'm just depressed.

[outpost]

I'd call this "The Battle the Draft".........unfortunately it isn't the NBA, NFL, NHL, MLB, ACC, BXII, PACX, BIGX (I), BIGEAST, or any other major league.......our little conference is way down in the pecking order, and has to fight for the recruits it gets. :no:

So I'm not sure what to call it......how about "Battle for the Abyss"......???

[Coasterbill42]

:shockers::shockers::shockers::shockers::shockers: :shockers:


:shockers:91
:bears:65

[troutangler]

WSU, I'm not cheering for you (:innocent:), but please win this game. If you have anything left in the tank this year, just win the game. Like everyone said, anything you can do to help us get rid of the Little General ASAP would be appreciated.

Pllleeeeeeeaaasseee!!!

[Aargh]

Wow!

A MSU/WSU thread with both sides predicting disaster. MSU fans begging for a loss and WSU fans basically saying they couldn't beat MSU if the bus broke down and the MSU didn't show up.

In WSU's last game Wendell Preadom was the Player of the Game - mostly for his play in the paint. Preadom is 6'1".

If MSU had 10 healthy players, I'd say this was a trap game for MSU. With the comfort factor of knowing WSU can't beat anybody, MSU may have fallen into the trap. With MSU down to only 8, they may think they actually have to play the game to win. That should be enough to avoid the trap.

[smsandmsuson]

Wow!

A MSU/WSU thread with both sides predicting disaster. MSU fans begging for a loss and WSU fans basically saying they couldn't beat MSU if the bus broke down and the MSU didn't show up.


:lol::banana::grin::naughty::Jumpy::yes:

[iSASO]

WSU, I'm not cheering for you (:innocent:), but please win this game. If you have anything left in the tank this year, just win the game. Like everyone said, anything you can do to help us get rid of the Little General ASAP would be appreciated.

Pllleeeeeeeaaasseee!!!

OK, if you give us whichever Laurie brother is the best and Devin Mitchell, AND you only suit up 4 players, we could make a game of it with a decent chance of beating Bearruh and the Bears.

If that deal cannot be consummated, I'm sorry, you're stuck with the win.

[MSUBear42]

Please? Just win WSU

[smsandmsuson]

Please? Just win WSU

Its the nailing in the coffin if they can

[DUShock]

I predict a one bucket margin of victory for whoever is the victor.

WSU is allowing 61.4 points per game while scoring 59.6
MSU is allowing 65.9 points per game while scoring 63.8

The Shocks best chance at victory will be getting the ball in down low as MSU opponents score 48% of their buckets from the 2-point rangeand WSU is scoring 44.3% from this range. MSU also sends teams to the line more (18.8 fouls per game) averaging 23% of their points allowed from the charity stripe. WSU opponents by contrast score 17% of their buckets from the line, WSU averages 16.8 fouls per game. As has been the story of the season in all likelihood if WSU wins or loses it will be from the line. I'm tlaking frequency not percentage as MSU's team free throw percentage is 71.4% compared to the SHocks at 66.9% (BTW Valley average is 70.8% and the national average is 68.6%).

It should be close regardless of how it goes.

Go Shocks!!!

[Clawinball]

It will be an ugly ugly game! I can't believe people will have to watch this crap on National Television! :lol: :helpsmilie: :shutup:

[Chairman of the Boards]

It will be an ugly ugly game! I can't believe people will have to watch this crap on National Television! :lol: :helpsmilie: :shutup:

It will be an instant ESPNU Classic. :no:
Actually, I'm looking forward to this game starting in about 15 minutes.
:valley:

[bleach]

3:40 24-20 Shocks

[bleach]

Halftime 28-27 Shockers

[scrove]

It will be an instant ESPNU Classic. :no:
Actually, I'm looking forward to this game starting in about 15 minutes.
:valley:

Doesn't the game have to get onto ESPNU to be a classic. :lol:
Austin Peay/SEMO going into 3 OTs.

[Chairman of the Boards]

Looks like the ESPNU Classic is currently being played. Pea and SEMO in the 3rd overtime. Hopefully, we'll see a few minutes of the second half. :cursing::doh::bash::ranting:
:valley:

[Nyghtewynd]

Austin Peay and SEMO are doing the world a favor.

[scrove]

The shocker radio guys said that MSU started the 2nd half with only 4 guys on the floor, is that true?

[bleach]

36-35 WSU

[Mc Bulldog]

update please?

[bleach]

11:26 left 47-43 WSU

[bleach]

3 fouls on Cooz and Deven

[bleach]

7:48 left 47-45 Shocks, Cooks and Lamberth w/15 each

[bleach]

First half WSU was 5-10 on 3s, second half 0-8, Bears 2-7 total, 48-47 Bears

[BearChief]

Bears take a lead? I don't like this.

YESSS!! Three for Cousinard!

[bleach]

5:11 51 all

[bleach]

3:56 left 53 all

[ISU87]

what happened to the MSU message forum??

[bleach]

55-53 WSU

[BearChief]

what happened to the MSU message forum??

Moved again.

Permanent home is www.bear-nation.com

Pretty good looking board.

[bleach]

what happened to the MSU message forum??It melted down over Barry.......no it moved again. Bear-Nation.com?

[bleach]

1:20 left Shox by 1

[bleach]

.45 left Shox by 1, Bears ball

[bleach]

.21 Shox by 3, Lamberth 3 tied w/ .15

[BearChief]

Shockers have the last shot. 15 seconds to play. I bet Marshall is better at this scenario than Barry.

[BearChief]

Dale's shot in question. Foot may have been on the line. Refs review and still call it a trey.

[bleach]

Overtime 57 all

[BearChief]

I stand corrected. The Shockers pulled a Barry and didn't even get a shot off.

[bleach]

Bears get the tip, miss, shox miss get rebound, thomason fouled, good and good, 59-57 WSU

[bleach]

Mekel 3 Shox lead 62-57 and ball after timeout

[BearChief]

Things not looking good for Barry....I mean, uhhh, the Bears.

[bleach]

2:12 left still 62-57

[bleach]

63-60 WSU

[bleach]

1:15 Shox by 4, 65-61

[bleach]

going to bed......I get up at 3:30, it's over anyways

[Canevision]

I'll never root for my Bears to lose, but I'm not terrible upset by it. This program has continued to fall under Barry's reign, and it's time for a change IMO.

You can't go into a new arena like this...

[BearChief]

Thanks Shox!

On to the next game! :redbirds::redbirds::redbirds:

[Nyghtewynd]

Well, Bears fans, you can quit talking about Hinson now. He's gone. Besides, if you really care, you can't blame this one on coaching because for the last five minutes of regulation and all of OT, the Bears did not have one possession where they looked like they were coached. They were nothing more than a summer blacktop team, and not a very good one either.

If you really want the program to get better, then make those phone calls to ensure that Bill Rowe is not the one making the next hire. Firing Hinson and keeping Rowe is simply rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic.

Last thing...if you really hate this team or this coach, don't wear paper bags or boo at home or anything. Just don't go. That's the biggest statement you can make.

[Canevision]

I don't "hate" them at all. I do feel like they have underachieved, and have reached their peak in their current positions, but I can't root against my team.

Missouri State University has allowed for many doors to open for me in my life, and I love that school. Always will, this is my home, and I want what's best for them.

In athletics, you're going to have years that are worse than others, I know that. What I have seen though, is that mediocrity is starting to be accepted as the norm, and the direction of the program is one that is trending in the wrong direction. The kids try hard, and for that, I thank him. The coaches do their best, and for that, I thank them as well. Barry has always been a good man, and has always done what he feels is best to represent the University that I love. He has made mistakes in some of those decisions, but show the man that hasn't.

With that said, bad things happen to good people, and the situation at MSU is beyond repair, or at least beyond the abilities of the current staff in place to repair. It is time for a change, it is time for Barry to go onto whatever endeavors he so chooses from here, and it is time for MSU to start a new direction with their programs. One that will inevitably have its ups and downs, and one that could possibly lead to a road less rosey than even the one we're on now. For me, though, it is time to make that leap and restore the unity in this fractured fanbase. It is time to move on to another coach, and take the chance that it will lead to the higher peaks that our program has once reached.

Thanks for your time here Mr. Hinson, but you've done all that you can here. It's time for a change.

:bears:

[smsandmsuson]

Thank god that is over and that we lost. Barry, the sooner, the better.

[Mick Taylor]

My God. A team with eight healthy players -- seven if you count Deven Mitchell playing sick -- goes overtime on the road and all MSU fans can do is b****?

I'm not saying Barry Hinson is John Wooden, but these Hinson screeds are so irrational they'd be hilarious if they weren't so sad. MSU fans continue to show their a** as the most myopic, out-of-touch-with-reality fan base in the Valley ... quite an honor.

All I can say is be careful what you wish for, Bears fans, be careful what you wish for. Your perception of your "tradition" is way of whack with reality, which is two NCAA appearances since MSU joined the Valley in the early 90s.

[DUShock]

Mick

Here's another example however the responses to my inquiry were all well reasoned and seemingly unemotional at the time of their posting. It is still sad.

http://www.valleytalk.net/showthread.php?t=6180&page=2

Go Valley!!

Go Shocks!!!!

[outpost]

I was gonna post "Good win [fill last night's opponent in this blank]".

But I guess it's us for a change....seems appropriate, because at times we were our own opponent.

Although small, the crowd was great all night long........

[Canevision]

What's sad is opposing teams fans', which are nowhere near as close to the situation, telling another fan base how to feel about their coach.

That nine year run w/o a tourney bid is the longest in our history, it only took us six to get there out of DII. MSU has alot more basketball tradition than you realize.

[DoubleJayAlum]

Prettt sloppy game to watch, but it was entertaining. Not as entertaining as the Austin Peay-SEMO game, but entertaining none the less.

This is the first game I remember seeing at WSU where there are so many obviously open seats, including several at mid court.

[TNMSUFAN]

My God. A team with eight healthy players -- seven if you count Deven Mitchell playing sick -- goes overtime on the road and all MSU fans can do is b****?

I'm not saying Barry Hinson is John Wooden, but these Hinson screeds are so irrational they'd be hilarious if they weren't so sad. MSU fans continue to show their a** as the most myopic, out-of-touch-with-reality fan base in the Valley ... quite an honor.

All I can say is be careful what you wish for, Bears fans, be careful what you wish for. Your perception of your "tradition" is way of whack with reality, which is two NCAA appearances since MSU joined the Valley in the early 90s.

I always find it interesting how other fans try to tell us we are never as good as we think we are and how Coach Hinson is the best we can get. We have finished in the top 4 of the Valley 12 out of 17 years (3 of the 5 teams that didn't were coached by Hinson...soon to be 4) which I would imagine is better than just about every conference team except SIU and CU. Also, we had 2 NCAA appearances in our first 9 seasons in the Valley and we have had 0 in Barry's 8 seasons (soon to be 9)

MO State finishes in the Valley

1990-1991 2nd - Spoonhour
1991-1992 3rd - Spoonhour
1992-1993 3rd - Bernsen
1993-1994 6th - Bernsen
1994-1995 6th - Bernsen
1995-1996 4th - Alford
1996-1997 2nd - Alford
1997-1998 3rd - Alford
1998-1999 2nd - Alford
1999-2000 2nd - Hinson
2000-2001 7th - Hinson
2001-2002 4th - Hinson
2002-2003 3rd - Hinson
2003-2004 5th - Hinson
2004-2005 5th - Hinson
2005-2006 2nd - Hinson
2006-2007 3rd - Hinson

[shockball]

I see one lower half finish. We all know that MSU got hosed out of tourney appearances once and maybe a second time. Not the coaches fault.

Doesn't Hinson also have 3 title game appearances in St. Louis? Maybe Hinson gets the last laugh. This'll be my first and last post on this. Good luck to MSU.
:bears:

[TNMSUFAN]

I see one lower half finish. We all know that MSU got hosed out of tourney appearances once and maybe a second time. Not the coaches fault.

Doesn't Hinson also have 3 title game appearances in St. Louis? Maybe Hinson gets the last laugh. This'll be my first and last post on this. Good luck to MSU.
:bears:

Yes, we will have another below 4th place finish which means Hinson has coached 4 of the 6 teams that have finished below 4th place since we joined the Valley. Not sure how Hinson will get the last laugh considering he has wanted out of here for a while but can't get anyone to hire him.

[DUShock]

What matters is what the adminstration thinks, then the big money boosters, and then the regular boosters followed by the fan base. Personally I would love to see Barry sent packing because that will set the program back even further than it has apparently already fallen.Bad for the Valley but good for Wichita State. Again, if the money is willing to poney up some cash for a higher salary then MSU will be in the top tier once again, if not, it will be more of the same.

Go Valley!!

Go Shocks!!!!

[howboutdembears]

the money will be there, dont worry... there is a very large contribution at least $5M waiting out there if Barry is gone...

I don't like all of these other fans telling MSU fan what to think and that they are out of touch... you morons have nothing invested in our program... us fans have many many years in this program along with thousands of dollars.. our lives revolve around them during the season, yet you narrow minded people think that you know more and know what is best for us.... Man, that coaching change at Drake, and ISU is really setting them back, it must be terrible to have to start all over.... you guys kill me...

If Barry Hinson is as good as many of you say, why hasnt he been offered a job to get out of here? no one can answer this question.... Dana gets offers, Chris gets offers, Turg got an offer, McDermott got an offer, why hasnt Barry? Barry can't even get another Valley school to hire him... The EU and ISUred folks didnt want him, then they come on here and tell us how good he is and we should be happy with him.

[DawgieStyle]

the money will be there, dont worry... there is a very large contribution at least $5M waiting out there if Barry is gone...

I don't like all of these other fans telling MSU fan what to think and that they are out of touch... you morons have nothing invested in our program... us fans have many many years in this program along with thousands of dollars.. our lives revolve around them during the season, yet you narrow minded people think that you know more and know what is best for us.... Man, that coaching change at Drake, and ISU is really setting them back, it must be terrible to have to start all over.... you guys kill me...

If Barry Hinson is as good as many of you say, why hasnt he been offered a job to get out of here? no one can answer this question.... Dana gets offers, Chris gets offers, Turg got an offer, McDermott got an offer, why hasnt Barry? Barry can't even get another Valley school to hire him... The EU and ISUred folks didnt want him, then they come on here and tell us how good he is and we should be happy with him.


I don't think getting rid of Barry is a bad thing. Like you said, worked well for ISU and Drake.

Secondly, I don't think I'd call other fan bases "morons" for offereing their opinion on Mo. states coaching situation, on the CONFERENCE Board. I could see you being upset if this was the Bears board, but its not, expect to get points of views from every fan base. If you don't want that, don't post here.

Third....I don't think anyone has a huge problem with getting rid of Barry, what people are having a problem with is the arrogance Bears fans carry about their program. You aren't SIU or CU, you haven't had the success they have had over the last 10years, and to expect to have a coach on staff or hire a coach of that quality is a little absurd.

[Ricky Del Rio]

I don't think getting rid of Barry is a bad thing. Like you said, worked well for ISU and Drake.

Secondly, I don't think I'd call other fan bases "morons" for offereing their opinion on Mo. states coaching situation, on the CONFERENCE Board. I could see you being upset if this was the Bears board, but its not, expect to get points of views from every fan base. If you don't want that, don't post here.

Third....I don't think anyone has a huge problem with getting rid of Barry, what people are having a problem with is the arrogance Bears fans carry about their program. You aren't SIU or CU, you haven't had the success they have had over the last 10years, and to expect to have a coach on staff or hire a coach of that quality is a little absurd.

Omg! I find myself agreeing with Doggie Style.

I must be sick or somethin'.

[Canevision]

Before Barry, we had just as much, if not more success than CU and SIU. Consistently, we have been the third best program in the Valley, and that's with Barry coaching us.

Without him, we were right up there with CU and SIU. Remember, every year we finished second, we finished ahead of one of them (or at least tied with them).

Stop telling the fanbase of MSU it is absurd to expect to be elite in this conference, and to expect to go to tourney several times a decade. This is a great job, with a good and passionate fanbase. It is basketball country, with many extremely lucrative backers just waiting to give money to the program, and that doesn't even include the new arena.

It really is infuriating to see opposing teams fans think they know better than we do, or have this pat us on the top of the head type of attitude while they smirk.

[DawgieStyle]

Omg! I find myself agreeing with Doggie Style.

I must be sick or somethin'.

careful, its contagious.

What irritates me more, is they pin this all on Barry Hinson. What? does Barry take jump shots? play defense? Make passes?

I'm not saying he isn't partially responsible, these are the players he recruited, but come on, players play, coaches coach. There is enough blame to go around to all involved, not just Barry Hinson.

Same for SIU's troubles this year. It wasn't just the Chris Lowery needed to make adjustments, the players weren't executing, they had a good game plans, and the open shots, CLO can't make wide open shots for Matt Shaw, he has to.

Also, I know fans and coaches hate to use it as an excuse, but if you truly do have that many guys misssing action for whatever reason, no coach, no matter how good they are, is gonna win a lot of games.

I think Barry is actually a pretty good coach, who agreed, needs a change of employment to get the juices going again. Sometimes good players and coaches just get stagnant in a place and its best for both involved if they just move on and start new.

[DawgieStyle]

Before Barry, we had just as much, if not more success than CU and SIU. Consistently, we have been the third best program in the Valley, and that's with Barry coaching us.

Without him, we were right up there with CU and SIU. Remember, every year we finished second, we finished ahead of one of them (or at least tied with them).

Stop telling the fanbase of MSU it is absurd to expect to be elite in this conference, and to expect to go to tourney several times a decade. This is a great job, with a good and passionate fanbase. It is basketball country, with many extremely lucrative backers just waiting to give money to the program, and that doesn't even include the new arena.

It really is infuriating to see opposing teams fans think they know better than we do, or have this pat us on the top of the head type of attitude while they smirk.


no no, I think you should expect to go the tourney, all valley schools should. What I think is absurd, is that you expect to have a high quality coach to help do that after the last several years. Only successful teams can lure really concrete high quality coaches, the rest guess and get lucky.

Finishing second is nice, but if you don't make the dance, it doesn't matter.

[DawgieStyle]

It really is infuriating to see opposing teams fans think they know better than we do, or have this pat us on the top of the head type of attitude while they smirk.


do something about it.....WIN. What, you want respect for not winning and missing the NCAA Tourney? Close only counts in horse shoes and hand gernades.

and again, Valley Talk, not Bears talk.....expect to get our point of view.

sorry for sounding harsh, I appreciate your desire to see your team win and be good, just don't expect the rest of the conference to show you respect when frankly the bears haven't earned it in a while.

[bears1]

Doggie, you just made our point. We cant win the big games and or get over the top with Hinson at the helm. He proves time and time again that he cant win the big ones that count. I would love to see SIU's response if they were the ones who had Hinson and went 9 years without a tournament appearence. I think you might see things diferently than you do as an outsider. In fact, I know you would.

[DawgieStyle]

Doggie, you just made our point. We cant win the big games and or get over the top with Hinson at the helm. He proves time and time again that he cant win the big ones that count. I would love to see SIU's response if they were the ones who had Hinson and went 9 years without a tournament appearence. I think you might see things diferently than you do as an outsider. In fact, I know you would.

Our opinion differs is in that you think Mo. state has the status and respect that would allow it to be able to hire a coach better than Barry Hinson, I'm not sure about that.

I think Mo. state needs to try something else, agreed, but getting a coach better than Barry is more of a crap shoot in my opinion for a team that isn't going to draw some one with a lot of experience or proof that they will be better than Barry. It's not like you are going to go out like The shockers did a grab someone the quality of Marshall.

My point is, Mo. state doesn't have the status to go out and get sure fire answer to Barry hinson. You are playing russian roulette. You may or may not get a better coach than what you have now.

[Canevision]

Doggie, you just made our point. We cant win the big games and or get over the top with Hinson at the helm. He proves time and time again that he cant win the big ones that count. I would love to see SIU's response if they were the ones who had Hinson and went 9 years without a tournament appearence. I think you might see things diferently than you do as an outsider. In fact, I know you would.

Yup, Dawgie pretty much made my point for me.

:bears:

[Canevision]

The Bears program is highly respected in college basketball IMO.

Being good enough to get right there and not get it done is a reflection on the coach IMO. Some people subscribe to the philosophy of keep the evil you know, over the evil you don't.

Others will say it is a risk, that you could possibly drop even further.

What these people don't understand is that this is as bad as our program has EVER been...in its history.

Missouri State basketball has gone its longest stretch w/o a tourney bid, is closing in on one of its worst finishes in conference ever, has a coach who can't win the big games, and is creating a large fracture in the fan base, and we're supposed to keep that because we're worried we can't do better? I hope you can see how that sounds absurd to a fan who has been here since the beginning of DI.

IMHO, MSU is at least as good of a job as WSU was last year, and they brought in a very highly respected coach in the industry. MSU won't pay quite as well, so I don't expect to get THE top mid major guy, or BCS assistant, but I expect to get a highly qualified coach this time around, w/o a doubt. I also know that WSU is struggling, and I'd expect a transition year as well, but I'll take my chances it gets turned around the other way, as opposed to being scared to pull the trigger, and accepting mediocrity.

[DawgieStyle]

The Bears program is highly respected in college basketball IMO.

Being good enough to get right there and not get it done is a reflection on the coach IMO. Some people subscribe to the philosophy of keep the evil you know, over the evil you don't.

Others will say it is a risk, that you could possibly drop even further.

What these people don't understand is that this is as bad as our program has EVER been...in its history.

Missouri State basketball has gone its longest stretch w/o a tourney bid, is closing in on one of its worst finishes in conference ever, has a coach who can't win the big games, and is creating a large fracture in the fan base, and we're supposed to keep that because we're worried we can't do better? I hope you can see how that sounds absurd to a fan who has been here since the beginning of DI.

IMHO, MSU is at least as good of a job as WSU was last year, and they brought in a very highly respected coach in the industry. MSU won't pay quite as well, so I don't expect to get THE top mid major guy, or BCS assistant, but I expect to get a highly qualified coach this time around, w/o a doubt. I also know that WSU is struggling, and I'd expect a transition year as well, but I'll take my chances it gets turned around the other way, as opposed to being scared to pull the trigger, and accepting mediocrity.

the difference between you and Wichita is that they were only a year removed from the sweet 16, and there were signs early the last season of Turgeon when they climbed the polls to 8 that they could be good....could being the key word.

MSU isn't in that position.

The other factor is Turgeon Left on his own accord, Barry will most likely get canned....big factor to Prospective coaches.

Again, I agree, time for a new coach. I'm just not sold on getting one as good as you think you are going to get. I think it could be quite some time before we see the Bears back at the top of the valley.

[Cdizzle]

The Bears program is highly respected in college basketball IMO.


As displayed regularly by the selection committee.

[WSUfan]

Our opinion differs is in that you think Mo. state has the status and respect that would allow it to be able to hire a coach better than Barry Hinson, I'm not sure about that.

I think Mo. state needs to try something else, agreed, but getting a coach better than Barry is more of a crap shoot in my opinion for a team that isn't going to draw some one with a lot of experience or proof that they will be better than Barry. It's not like you are going to go out like The shockers did a grab someone the quality of Marshall.

My point is, Mo. state doesn't have the status to go out and get sure fire answer to Barry hinson. You are playing russian roulette. You may or may not get a better coach than what you have now.

Even though this season is going poorly, I think all WSU fans not named Ryan (CORNELIUS) think we got a fantastic coach in Gregg Marshall. What allowed us to get a great coach? Was it the Sweet 16 run, the improved arena, the strong fan support or the media interest? I don't know but my guess is a combination of the fan support (even in off years) and the AD. OK, the money didn't hurt either.

If Missouri State could offer CU/SIU/WSU (BU??) money, really strong fan support and a strong, supportive athletic director, I think the Bears could find a really good coach.

[WSUbballer]

Prettt sloppy game to watch, but it was entertaining. Not as entertaining as the Austin Peay-SEMO game, but entertaining none the less.

This is the first game I remember seeing at WSU where there are so many obviously open seats, including several at mid court.

Thanks for noticing. 1-8 in the Valley and a 6 game losing streak was kinda taking its toll. Still, I'd say over 9,000+ was in attendance. Not bad for a bottom feeder. Not surprising too that a lot of seats were empty at mid court, considering those are mostly corporate seats filled with fair-weather fans, not even WSU fans, that really don't care.

I know CU will never be a play-in team, ever. But I"d be curious if 17,000 would still show up if they were.

[WuDrWu]

Obsession noted, CU fans. We always welcome your input on our threads.


Barry is a class guy. That cannot be argued. He has finished in the top half of a tough league I am fairly certain, every year he has been the coach. Pretty good resume if you ask me.

MSU and the MVC could do a lot worse than Barry, a lot worse. It's your program, do with it what you will. Just remember this if things don't go as well as you predict. This is a damned tough conference to win consistently in and whoever takes over is very likely to get it handed to him for awhile.

And 'baller if CU went 1-8 there wouldn't be 9k in attendance or even 5k. Fortunately for the Jays, that is not a concern today or anytime in the foreseeable future.

[Canevision]

As displayed regularly by the selection committee.

You can't be serious. The selection committee selects teams based on their resume's each year...come on.

[AcePurple]

You can't be serious. The selection committee selects teams based on their resume's each year...come on.

Exactly! Just ask (insert annual 12 loss BCS conference team) fans!

[Awesome Sauce Malone]

You can't be serious. The selection committee selects teams based on their resume's each year...come on.

And George Bush is Jewish

[Canevision]

Syracuse fans might be piping up right about now...the Bears didn't get in because they either didn't beat enough good teams, or they lost to too many teams they shouldn't have.

[smsandmsuson]

Syracuse fans might be piping up right about now...the Bears didn't get in because they either didn't beat enough good teams, or they lost to too many teams they shouldn't have.

When you lose 4 games at home, you have no reason to be given the chance to Dance. Take care of business in the regular season and all is good.

[shockball]

[QUOTE=
This is the first game I remember seeing at WSU where there are so many obviously open seats, including several at mid court.[/QUOTE]


I'll be making my fourth annual trip to the Omaha. The lower section directly across from the WSU bench at the Qwest has always had some vacancies. It happens everywhere.

[DoubleJayAlum]

I'll be making my fourth annual trip to the Omaha. The lower section directly across from the WSU bench at the Qwest has always had some vacancies. It happens everywhere.


Those fans are at the arena; they're probably just hanging out at the bar. :lol:

For the record, I was just making an observation about what I saw on TV last night and how I don't remember seeing that before. It wasn't meant to be inflamatory.

[outpost]

Those fans are at the arena; they're probably just hanging out at the bar. :lol:

For the record, I was just making an observation about what I saw on TV last night and how I don't remember seeing that before. It wasn't meant to be inflamatory.

This is.......

:bulldogs::bulldogs::bulldogs::bulldogs::bulldogs: :bulldogs:

[douglasdmb]

I agree with other fans who say that we're not on the same level program-wise as CU, SIU, and WSU -- I'd say that's pretty obvious. Also, I agree with the "be careful what you wish for" philosophy, because we could very well fire Barry and bring someone in who is even worse. However, I think that most Bear fans are willing to take that chance. That's the key. We might be unreasonable, but that shows how much we want to see from our program. We don't want to just win and be competitive, we want to be great.

If you look at Barry's coaching résumé prior to when he showed up at MSU, it wasn't that great. He was an assistant at ORU for a few years under Bill Self (good I guess, depending on your opinion of Self) and then took over as head coach for two years, going 36-23 with an NIT appearance. Now, how unlikely would it be for us to find someone with a résumé as good as (if not, better than) that? I like our chances of finding a good, up-and-coming coach at the Div. II or lower-Div. 1 levels, personally.

We have fallen too far this year to bring him back, IMO. Remember, we're likely to fall EVEN FARTHER next season. That speaks to the program and system that he's built.

[Canevision]

Over the past ten to fifteen years, what has WSU done to make you believe they're on a higher level? I don't see that, I do see CU and SIU obviously.

[WSUbballer]

Over the last 10-15 years, I'd say WSU and MSU are neck and neck. Over the last 5 years, I'd say WSU may have the upper hand.

[WSUfan]

Over the past ten to fifteen years, what has WSU done to make you believe they're on a higher level? I don't see that, I do see CU and SIU obviously.

Salary of the head coach.
Sweet 16.
Strong fan support.
MVC All-sports awards.

[Aargh]

If I were a MSU fan I would be terrified wondering who was going to hire the next coach. I think the problems at MSU are a little deeper than Hinson.

[Canevision]

Hinson is being paid the salary he is, because there is no reason to pay more. They'll pay many times what they are now to the next coach.

MSU has also been to the Sweet 16 in the past ten years The year before Hinson 1999).

MSU also has great fan support. Just like with WSU, when they're losing, they aren't going to get the same fan support.

All-sports has nothing to do with the basketball program, but MSU dominated that award for years, until recently. The elimination of several sports hasn't helped.

I still see nothing to suggest to me that WSU and MSU are on different levels of their programs. I'm not disparaging WSU in the least, but the only two programs who can claim to be above MSU's are CU and SIU IMO.

When MSU opens the nicest on campus arena in the conference, that should only make the job more attractive. (Not to mention changing from a multi-directional school, to a state named University should only help lure in coaches not from the region)

Perhaps I see things way too much through my maroon colored glasses, but that's how I see things...

:bears:

[Michigan J. Frog]

I am very interested to hear what MVC fans who are not from WSU or MSU have to say about the WSU-MSU comparisons.

[WSUfan]

Hinson is being paid the salary he is, because there is no reason to pay more. They'll pay many times what they are now to the next coach.

MSU has also been to the Sweet 16 in the past ten years The year before Hinson 1999).

MSU also has great fan support. Just like with WSU, when they're losing, they aren't going to get the same fan support.

All-sports has nothing to do with the basketball program, but MSU dominated that award for years, until recently. The elimination of several sports hasn't helped.

I still see nothing to suggest to me that WSU and MSU are on different levels of their programs. I'm not disparaging WSU in the least, but the only two programs who can claim to be above MSU's are CU and SIU IMO.

When MSU opens the nicest on campus arena in the conference, that should only make the job more attractive. (Not to mention changing from a multi-directional school, to a state named University should only help lure in coaches not from the region)

Perhaps I see things way too much through my maroon colored glasses, but that's how I see things...

:bears:

I hope you are correct. We need more strong teams in the Valley.

[TNMSUFAN]

Didn't someone post a website or a report on here that showed the top basketball programs in each conference based on finish, rpi, sos, etc. We were 3rd and it wasn't even close if I remember correctly. Just since we joined the Valley we have played in 2 NCAA's with a Sweet 16 and 7 NIT's...post season 9 of the 17 years. I would be curious what WSU is over that same time since we are comparing programs.

91 - NIT
92 - NCAA
93 - NIT
97 - NIT
99 - NCAA Sweet 16
00 - NIT
05 - NIT
06 - NIT
07 - NIT

[troutangler]

MSU made a Sweet 16 and hired Barruh. We're still paying him basically the same after 9 years.

WSU made a Sweet 16 and ponied up $750k for Marshall.

Guys, if Barry was so highly thought of, someone would have hired him away by now. If you're a mid-major coach and you've been at a school for nine years, you better have made some NCAA tournaments and they had better be paying you a LOT of money (Dana Altman comes to mind). Only at MSU do we keep this clown around for so long with so little tangible results.

As for Barry being a "class guy", I also disagree. Nothing like a bold-face lie about the players that stole camera equipment at the start of this season. When a local TV station broke the story, Barry said he "Just found out" and repeated "Just" several times. Then it came out that he had known about it for a couple of days. He then went on to tell us that in the south, "Just found out" is a relative term.

He also lied about the Gary Williams thing. He ran his mouth in the media about wanting a home/home with Maryland, so Williams offered him a neutral site game in D.C. Barry came back and said that Williams never called him back...basically trying to make Williams look bad when in reality Williams offered the game. Who is Barry Hinson to demand a home/home game with Maryland? He's lucky they offered the neutral site game.

Barry is a liar and a fraud, and if you were around this crap for so long you would figure it out too.

[shockball]

I had not heard those stories on Hinson. It does shed a little light. The criminal infractions cover aren't a real attractive trait. Some coaches did that for months but they had a more successful records. Barry could have said something like we are still gathering information.

His public denial of the conversation with Gary Williams is not excusable. He set back everyone's scheduling with BCS schools with that one.

[Michigan J. Frog]

Didn't someone post a website or a report on here that showed the top basketball programs in each conference based on finish, rpi, sos, etc. We were 3rd and it wasn't even close if I remember correctly. Just since we joined the Valley we have played in 2 NCAA's with a Sweet 16 and 7 NIT's...post season 9 of the 17 years. I would be curious what WSU is over that same time since we are comparing programs.

91 - NIT
92 - NCAA
93 - NIT
97 - NIT
99 - NCAA Sweet 16
00 - NIT
05 - NIT
06 - NIT
07 - NIT

Biggest thing missing from MSU's resume is a MVC championship.

[Canevision]

Shockball, there are many reports of Hinson, and I just prefer not to get into them on this board. Trout is one of our more vocal posters (as if I'm quiet), so I knew I just needed to give him time, and he'd put it all out there :naughty:

Hinson has made mistakes that reach further than just coaching mistakes, but has always been nothing but a gentleman to me...

:bears:

[TNMSUFAN]

Biggest thing missing from MSU's resume is a MVC championship.

We won the tournament in 92 but haven't won the regular season but I assume since Wichita has once in that time you are bringing it up...still curious to see WSU list over that same time.

[Webersback]

I don't have the Shocker numbers in front of me, but I will bet that MSU has a much better overall record over that span then WSU does. The Shockers were really bad for a few years and had no post season at all. At least MSU made it into post season play most of the time.

[TNMSUFAN]

91 - NIT
92 - NCAA
93 - NIT
97 - NIT
99 - NCAA Sweet 16
00 - NIT
05 - NIT
06 - NIT
07 - NIT

2 NCAA's with Sweet 16 and 7 NIT's in 17 years

From what I can see here is WSU profile since we joined the Valley

03 - NIT
04 - NIT
05 - NIT
06 - NCAA Sweet 16

1 NCAA Sweet 16 and 3 NIT's in 17 years

[WSUfan]

From what I can see here is WSU profile since we joined the Valley

03 - NIT
04 - NIT
05 - NIT
06 - NCAA Sweet 16

1 NCAA Sweet 16 and 3 NIT's in 17 years

I don't usually worry about the "obsession" label but perhaps it applies to you. I think your list is correct. While I can understand your choice of timeframe (with MSU's history), it is not a natural timeframe to use when considering the traditions and success of Shocker basketball. I would suggest either a five year timeframe (i.e. What have you done for me lately?) or a 50 year timeframe would make more sense for WSU basketball.

There is another issue and that is the attention that the programs naturally receive. WSU is a larger media market than Springfield and gets more attention. Wichita has a large aviation industry which brings a lot of important people here frequently (2-3 times per year) for flight training (e.g. Harrison Ford), aircraft deals, etc. Wichita's richest person/family, Charles Koch, has much greater resources that does Springfield's richest person/family. People still remember Dave the Rave, X, etc. and WSU baseball success brings attention to the university in general. People on the coasts and in Europe have heard of Wichita, unlike Springfield. (This is a general comment and is not completely accurate but Wichita is better known than Springfield.) While MSU is starting its first PhD program, WSU has about ten such programs for over 20 years. I suspect that WSU brings in a lot more research funding than does MSU. ETC.

[TNMSUFAN]

I don't usually worry about the "obsession" label but perhaps it applies to you. I think your list is correct. While I can understand your choice of timeframe (with MSU's history), it is not a natural timeframe to use when considering the traditions and success of Shocker basketball. I would suggest either a five year timeframe (i.e. What have you done for me lately?) or a 50 year timeframe would make more sense for WSU basketball.

There is another issue and that is the attention that the programs naturally receive. WSU is a larger media market than Springfield and gets more attention. Wichita has a large aviation industry which brings a lot of important people here frequently (2-3 times per year) for flight training (e.g. Harrison Ford), aircraft deals, etc. Wichita's richest person/family, Charles Koch, has much greater resources that does Springfield's richest person/family. People still remember Dave the Rave, X, etc. and WSU baseball success brings attention to the university in general. People on the coasts and in Europe have heard of Wichita, unlike Springfield. (This is a general comment and is not completely accurate but Wichita is better known than Springfield.) While MSU is starting its first PhD program, WSU has about ten such programs for over 20 years. I suspect that WSU brings in a lot more research funding than does MSU. ETC.

I rarely post on this board and am far from obsessed with anyone or any team. Someone mentioned 15 years and someone mentioned 5 years which obviously will make the case for one or the other depending on which you look at...I posted the numbers since we joined the Valley because that way it is apples to apples. I know your guys history but we obviously haven't been DI for very long and didn't care to look up NAIA or DII stats. I don't get caught up in the my dad can beat up your dad arguments and shouldn't have involved myself with this one.

[DoubleJayAlum]

Wichita has a large aviation industry which brings a lot of important people here frequently (2-3 times per year) for flight training (e.g. Harrison Ford), aircraft deals, etc.

Harrison Ford is an important person? To whom, Ally McBeal?

Famous -okay. Important? Not so much.

[shockball]

MSU has a much better record over this time frame. Mike Cohen quit before he got fired in '92, Scott Thompson was bought out '96, Randy Smithson was bought out in '00. Each coach had a loosing record for his career at WSU. None of them sniffed post season. The 80's had been just the opposite.

This is why I was having a tough time understanding the want to get rid of BH. MSU has not had tough times record wise, just BH'S BS.

[Canevision]

I don't usually worry about the "obsession" label but perhaps it applies to you. I think your list is correct. While I can understand your choice of timeframe (with MSU's history), it is not a natural timeframe to use when considering the traditions and success of Shocker basketball. I would suggest either a five year timeframe (i.e. What have you done for me lately?) or a 50 year timeframe would make more sense for WSU basketball.

There is another issue and that is the attention that the programs naturally receive. WSU is a larger media market than Springfield and gets more attention. Wichita has a large aviation industry which brings a lot of important people here frequently (2-3 times per year) for flight training (e.g. Harrison Ford), aircraft deals, etc. Wichita's richest person/family, Charles Koch, has much greater resources that does Springfield's richest person/family. People still remember Dave the Rave, X, etc. and WSU baseball success brings attention to the university in general. People on the coasts and in Europe have heard of Wichita, unlike Springfield. (This is a general comment and is not completely accurate but Wichita is better known than Springfield.) While MSU is starting its first PhD program, WSU has about ten such programs for over 20 years. I suspect that WSU brings in a lot more research funding than does MSU. ETC.

This post is pretty much why I should have stayed out of the whole thing as well. Wow, just wow I tell you.

I've been to both many times, dated a graduate of WSU for quite a while, and I can tell you without bias neither Springfield, MO nor Wichita, KS are important.

Our biggest person has more money than your biggest person? Wow.

Last sentence on the topic, MSU is not a less attractive job than WSU if they pay the money.

[DUShock]

Show me the money is the correct answer. Past history is important but isn't significant to the current team other than perhaps the most abstract form. When MSU gets rid of Barry they'll need to poney up a lot more cash to truly attract a quality pool of candidates, even up and comers.

Go Valley!!

Go Shocks!!!!

[outpost]

We're both in the Valley.....IMHO, I guess that makes us both equal.

[douglasdmb]

Hinson is being paid the salary he is, because there is no reason to pay more. They'll pay many times what they are now to the next coach.

MSU has also been to the Sweet 16 in the past ten years The year before Hinson 1999).

MSU also has great fan support. Just like with WSU, when they're losing, they aren't going to get the same fan support.

All-sports has nothing to do with the basketball program, but MSU dominated that award for years, until recently. The elimination of several sports hasn't helped.

I still see nothing to suggest to me that WSU and MSU are on different levels of their programs. I'm not disparaging WSU in the least, but the only two programs who can claim to be above MSU's are CU and SIU IMO.

When MSU opens the nicest on campus arena in the conference, that should only make the job more attractive. (Not to mention changing from a multi-directional school, to a state named University should only help lure in coaches not from the region)

Perhaps I see things way too much through my maroon colored glasses, but that's how I see things...

:bears:

Vision, I agree with most of what you've said and do realize that WSU was pretty unsuccessful throughout the 90s -- I'll give you that. Do you really think that the fanbases are comparable though? I sure don't. WSU's announced attendance for Tuesday's game was over 10k, people said that there were probably still 8 or 9 thousand there -- to watch their last-place team. That's about a sold-out crowd for us, which we can't get when we're competing for a Valley title and NCAA bid. No way can you argue that our fanbases are on the same level.

[Canevision]

Our building is not the same, we have a ton of bleachers, which I can assure you, plays a very large role in our current crowds.

We always sell out our chair backs, and our building doesn't even hold 10k. WSU does traditionally have higher attendance numbers, but this year is following a few years of prosperity. Like MSU, when they're down, so are their numbers.

MSU has a large number of folks who are disenchanted with the current regime as well, and stay away for that reason. I have personally decided to stay away until there is a change (except for senior night), and I didn't miss a game for years.

Lots of factors go into judging a fanbase besides just attendance figures...IMO anyway.

[Divergence]

We always sell out our chair backs, and our building doesn't even hold 10k. WSU does traditionally have higher attendance numbers, but this year is following a few years of prosperity. Like MSU, when they're down, so are their numbers.

The numbers are not down significantly. Attendance at the last game was 9200-9500 of actual butts in seat (even though it was officially sold out).

The two sections that had any significant holes were the student section (which their tickets are free) and the faculty seats. Otherwise most areas were pretty full except for a several two here and there.

Fans are actually doing a good job finding people to sell/give their tickets to if they can't make it to the game.

[WSUfan]

I rarely post on this board and am far from obsessed with anyone or any team. Someone mentioned 15 years and someone mentioned 5 years which obviously will make the case for one or the other depending on which you look at...I posted the numbers since we joined the Valley because that way it is apples to apples. I know your guys history but we obviously haven't been DI for very long and didn't care to look up NAIA or DII stats. I don't get caught up in the my dad can beat up your dad arguments and shouldn't have involved myself with this one.

No problem. I was not suggesting that we look back over the last 50 years; in this day and age, going back five years is probably far enough. I hope MSU has a top coach next year. Is Barry a top coach? I don't know.

[WSUfan]

Harrison Ford is an important person? To whom, Ally McBeal?

Famous -okay. Important? Not so much.

From the point of view of media attention, Harrison Ford is important.

Dick Cheney is actually "important" and I would not want him anywhere near WSU.

[WSUfan]

This post is pretty much why I should have stayed out of the whole thing as well. Wow, just wow I tell you.

I've been to both many times, dated a graduate of WSU for quite a while, and I can tell you without bias neither Springfield, MO nor Wichita, KS are important.

No real argument; Rudy's exit shows that even NYC is not important.

Our biggest person has more money than your biggest person? Wow.

Your "biggest person" is giving MSU money. Our "biggest person" gave us some money for Koch Arena. If someone lives in your city and has lots of money, this does not help the university unless that person is willing to contribute money to the university. John Q has been helping MSU. Koch has helped WSU in the past. The depth of those deep pockets might matter someday. Some media attention might come because of who contributes to a university (provided they are REALLY rich).


Last sentence on the topic, MSU is not a less attractive job than WSU if they pay the money.

This is probably true. I guess we'll find out when MSU goes out and gets a really popular coach that other schools wanted. When does this happen?

[WSUfan]

The numbers are not down significantly. Attendance at the last game was 9200-9500 of actual butts in seat (even though it was officially sold out).

The two sections that had any significant holes were the student section (which their tickets are free) and the faculty seats. Otherwise most areas were pretty full except for a several two here and there.

Fans are actually doing a good job finding people to sell/give their tickets to if they can't make it to the game.

This was discussed on ShockerNet. There are no "faculty seats"; those seats are athletic department seats.

[douglasdmb]

Our building is not the same, we have a ton of bleachers, which I can assure you, plays a very large role in our current crowds.

We always sell out our chair backs, and our building doesn't even hold 10k. WSU does traditionally have higher attendance numbers, but this year is following a few years of prosperity. Like MSU, when they're down, so are their numbers.

You're way off, vision. Sure, the building's aren't the same. Once again...WSU's attendance has dropped off by less than 5%...ours by about 20%, probably more.

Also, I'm pretty sure we haven't sold out the chairbacks once this year.

[Ricky Del Rio]

Our building is not the same, we have a ton of bleachers, which I can assure you, plays a very large role in our current crowds.

We always sell out our chair backs, and our building doesn't even hold 10k. WSU does traditionally have higher attendance numbers, but this year is following a few years of prosperity. Like MSU, when they're down, so are their numbers.

MSU has a large number of folks who are disenchanted with the current regime as well, and stay away for that reason. I have personally decided to stay away until there is a change (except for senior night), and I didn't miss a game for years.

Lots of factors go into judging a fanbase besides just attendance figures...IMO anyway.

Even during the dog years, Shocker attendance was consistently between 6 and 7 thousand. For attractive games, attendance was sold out or near sold out.

Coach Smithson referred to the hardy 6-7 thousand as the Dave Stallworth faithful.

[Canevision]

You're way off, vision. Sure, the building's aren't the same. Once again...WSU's attendance has dropped off by less than 5%...ours by about 20%, probably more.

Also, I'm pretty sure we haven't sold out the chairbacks once this year.

You admit the buildings aren't the same, then say I'm way off, which is it?

MSU has an antiquated building that many people can not sit through for a few hours.

If you want to say WSU has a more rabid fan base than MSU, I'll go along with it. They have a bigger city to draw from, but MSU should be selling out every game when they have an NCAA team, and they didn't.

We'll see how they do after a few years in the new arena, with all chair backs. (Have to get past the excitement of the first year for a true indicator).

Finally, I still maintain that you can't look at attendance numbers only to judge a fan base. By your rationale, I'm a bad fan, but my money and my absence of it at games, is my only vote.

[douglasdmb]

You admit the buildings aren't the same, then say I'm way off, which is it?

I'm saying that you're way off in your assessment that if we had the same caliber of facilities as WSU (bigger arena, all chairback) that we would draw as well as they do, even in a losing season.

If you want to say WSU has a more rabid fan base than MSU, I'll go along with it. They have a bigger city to draw from, but MSU should be selling out every game when they have an NCAA team, and they didn't.

That's what I'm saying. Even so, they have a smaller school (by enrollment) and most likely have a higher percentage of KU fans than we have Mizzou fans.

Finally, I still maintain that you can't look at attendance numbers only to judge a fan base. By your rationale, I'm a bad fan, but my money and my absence of it at games, is my only vote.

Fair enough.

[bleach]

Judging a coach on results is the only standard you can use. Whether you think MSU is top notch, middle of the pack or bottom feeders is irrelevent to the question.....is MSU better or worse since Hinson arrived? The numbers don't lie. We were regular participants in the NCAA tourney before he came and for whatever reason you want to give we haven't been there since. When people say "what have you done in the last ten years to make you think you could get a better coach" they need to realize Hinson has been coach 9 of those 10 years. The Bears were sweet 16 the other year. The arguement that Wichita could get a better coach because Turgeon left on his own whereas Hinson will be fired is just the opposite of standard thought.....no one wants to follow a legend or highly successful coach because of the expectations. That was part of our problem when we hired Barry. Few people could see how to top Alfords success that peaked with much fanfare in the sweet 16 run. When a program has underachieved, if you do your job you can easily impress. Also, people who haven't seen Hinson coach nightly for 9 years just don't understand how bad of an in game coach he is especially at end of game or half, after timeouts, on inbounds plays and other parts of the game directly attributed to the head coach.

[Clawinball]

Couple of thoughts from page 7 of the thread.

Trout is mistaken in the account of Barry the wonder boy. It was the day of the NCAA selection show, not after we lost in the NIT. Barry was saying that not making the tourney didnt really seem like a big deal in the grand scheme of life after pulling a girl from a car.

WSUfan, Hammons is not the richest person in Springfield. The guy has more debt than anyone else in Springfield, but nowhere near the cash that others have.. See the Oreilly's, maybe Johnny Morris, and others. Also, Jerry Jones' father just died a couple years ago while living in Springfield (not that he has all the money his son does). Leter E. Cox Family has quite a fortune as well!:yes:

[shockball]

MSU deserves a good coach. :bears: Is Bill Rowe going to hire someone better than Barry? How have the rest of his hires panned out?

[Clawinball]

MSU deserves a good coach. :bears: Is Bill Rowe going to hire someone better than Barry? How have the rest of his hires panned out?
He doesn't get to make this hire, it is up to Neitzel! :clap:

[howboutdembears]

MSU deserves a good coach. :bears: Is Bill Rowe going to hire someone better than Barry? How have the rest of his hires panned out?

Alford was a good hire, Randy Ball was a good hire at the time just didnt pan out here, Terry Allen was a good hire (not sure how much Rowe had to do with it), Nyla will be good (again, not sure how much he was in on it), Burnett was a good hire, Abe was a decent hire and had 4 good years here before things fell apart (yes, she had burnetts players, but she still had to develope and coach them)...

All in all, he has made some good and bad hires, but what AD hasnt?

[Awesome Sauce Malone]

I hear jim o brien is looking for a job now that he has been reinstated.

[WSUfan]

Alford was a good hire, Randy Ball was a good hire at the time just didnt pan out here, Terry Allen was a good hire (not sure how much Rowe had to do with it), Nyla will be good (again, not sure how much he was in on it), Burnett was a good hire, Abe was a decent hire and had 4 good years here before things fell apart (yes, she had burnetts players, but she still had to develope and coach them)...

All in all, he has made some good and bad hires, but what AD hasnt?

Jim Schaus hired Jane Albright and gave her a contract extension in 2006. This is why the Shock's WBB team has the best record in the Valley this year. :no: The media is really supporting Jane http://www.kansas.com/sports/lutz/story/298345.html. Our AD never makes mistakes!! http://www.shockernet.net/sn/viewtopic.php?t=10205.