Four POWs

[Dawg_tired]

Drake has had four different players be named Valley Players of the Week. That's not very impressive. It won't be impressive unless Drake gets to 15 or 20. Maybe the red shirts get POWs. Now even DawgieStool would have to admit that that was impressive.

[Keita44]

Guess what....I'll go out on a limb and predict this week it will be Leonard Houston. After his great chat on Soundoff Sunday night, he seems destined to do so!

[DawgieStyle]

Drake has had four different players be named Valley Players of the Week. That's not very impressive. It won't be impressive unless Drake gets to 15 or 20. Maybe the red shirts get POWs. Now even DawgieStool would have to admit that that was impressive.

make the dance, or shut up.

[Keita44]

make the dance, or shut up.

Dawgie....you are saying that if Drake had 15 different players win POW, then you still wouldn't be impressed? You need some :helpsmilie:

[DawgieStyle]

your season, or any valley teams season is absolutely worthless in my opinion if you do not make the NCAA tournament in today's MVC. Stop acting like a Mid major.

I happen to think if the season would end today, you would probably make it, but it doesn't, so we'll find in about 6 weeks.

All your POW's, all your win streaks, all your top 25 ranking mean jack squat if you some how pull a Wichita and don't make the dance.

It's like the Patriots.....their Perfect season will mean absolutley nothing if they don't win the super bowl. It will be tainted, a farce. They must win the super bowl for all those victories to actually mean something.

Make the dance.

[Dawg_tired]

here fishy fishy fishy.

[DUBulldog]

I happen to think if the season would end today, you would probably make it, but it doesn't, so we'll find in about 6 weeks.

Probably????? If the season ended today, Drake would be a lock. But.....there's still a helluva lot of season left to play.

[Mc Bulldog]

How does your wife feel about it?

[DawgieStyle]

Probably????? If the season ended today, Drake would be a lock. But.....there's still a helluva lot of season left to play.

Digger, Bilas and the boys didn't seem to think so.......they felt you needed to win the MVC tourney. Not saying they are right, but apperently not everyoen is sold on Drake.

[DawgieStyle]

here fishy fishy fishy.

give me a break on that crap, we've been over that before with other posters. There is not baiting on a message board, the purpose of a message is to respond, if no response came, you'd have no message board, you'd all be talking to yourselfs.

[DUBulldog]

Digger, Bilas and the boys didn't seem to think so.......they felt you needed to win the MVC tourney. Not saying they are right, but apperently not everyoen is sold on Drake.

Well.....if the season ended today, there would be no MVC tourney....so, the regular season champ would go....and if the season ended today, we know who that would be. :original: While I agree with Bilas and Digger that Drake isn't a lock yet.....there is no question they'd be a lock if the season ended today. And that was your original premise.

[DawgieStyle]

Well.....if the season ended today, there would be no MVC tourney....so, the regular season champ would go....and if the season ended today, we know who that would be. :original: While I agree with Bilas and Digger that Drake isn't a lock yet.....there is no question they'd be a lock if the season ended today. And that was your original premise.

I guess. Its not like the MVC tourney isn't going to be played tho, so that's why I said probably. My premise would if the season ended today, Drake would be the 1 seed in MVC tourney. It doesn't really matter, you know where I'm coming from.

If drake does lose early in the MVC tourney some how this march, things are going to get very interesting in my opinion. 1 bid is very plausible in my opinion, despite what many on this board think.

[Dawg_tired]

Stool's the expert. Everybody bow down. Really Stool, you haven't been very right this season.

[btisu22]

I see where both sides come from. You shouldn't be to happy not going to the dance in March. However, this isn't Creighton or SIU we're talking about. It's Drake! Their past 30 yrs, 2 walk-ons, new coach, ect....you have to be somewhat impressed! I know I am....Keep it up Bulldogs!
:bulldogs:

For what it's worth, after the past 6 seasons I wouldn't be to upset with an NIT bid......post season ball is post season ball when you've been in the bottom for a while.
:sycamores:

[DawgieStyle]

Stool's the expert. Everybody bow down. Really Stool, you haven't been very right this season.

right on what? Pre-season predictions? everyone missed those, I don't feel too bad about that.

On games, I believe I got the Drake - CU game correct, and almost every SIU game so far, except for the road win at Evansville and a few in the non con.

I've missed some Drake predictions, and other than that I haven't commented on any other games or teams.

so lets see I've got 20 SIU games, and about 5 Drake games I've made predictions on...that's 25 games.

I've missed 4 out of 5 on Drake, and I've made about 16/20 on SIU, so that makes me what, 17 out of 25 for 68%. Not too bad in the world of predictions.

but you're right, i've been wrong a bunch.

[DawgieStyle]

Their past 30 yrs, 2 walk-ons, new coach, ect....

and that's the problem....the past 30 yrs. don't matter. The selection committee doesn't care about it, and neither do i.

[Dawg_tired]

Why do you have such an obsession with dissin Drake? We haven't talked about the fact that SIU is closer to Jackson Mississippi than it is to Chicago which gives it the hillbilly crown over Mo St.

[DawgieStyle]

Why do you have such an obsession with dissin Drake? We haven't talked about the fact that SIU is closer to Jackson Mississippi than it is to Chicago which gives it the hillbilly crown over Mo St.

I don't have an obsession with dissin drake. I think Drake is a good team, the best in the valley as of today. I'm trying to have a rational discussion on their status for the NCAA tournament, and how important that is to making their season actually count towards something meaningful.

Becaue if they do miss the NCAA tourney, that's it...my opinion is that their season was for nothing, and that goes for any MVC team. SIU's season will be worthless in my opinion unless they some how pull a rabbit out of their hat and win the MVC tourney.

my comment about the last 20 years not counting towards anything is accurate as well from my position. The Tournament is the goal, if that is the goal, only the factors that go into that matter. The selection committee doesn't care about Drakes past, or how bad it has been vs. how good it is now....it only cares a bout this season. If the selection committee doesn't deem it important, why would I, if that is the goal teams in the valley should be attaining.

[jb399]

your season, or any valley teams season is absolutely worthless in my opinion if you do not make the NCAA tournament in today's MVC. Stop acting like a Mid major.


Absolutely worthless? That is a bit rough. SIU isn't going to make the tournament, should they go ahead and stop playing the regular season because it is worthless?

[DawgieStyle]

Absolutely worthless? That is a bit rough. SIU isn't going to make the tournament, should they go ahead and stop playing the regular season because it is worthless?

worthless from a goals and achievment stand point.

If I were SIU, I'd be playing my young guys who are going to be here the next 2-3 years as much as I could to develop them at a faster rate for next year, and getting them ready to contribute for the MVC tourney this year, our last chance to make the NCAA dance this year.

[WSUbballer]

If drake does lose early in the MVC tourney some how this march, things are going to get very interesting in my opinion. 1 bid is very plausible in my opinion, despite what many on this board think.

How bad would it be for the 14th-ranked team in the nation to not make the NCAA Tournament..

They're a lock.

[numbr_9]

Dawgie, i gotta disagree with you on one point. I think if the season ended today, Drake is a LOCK for the dance. I think if they keep winning and lose in the first round in the Lou, drake is still going, although their seed will suffer greatly.

Unless All teams 2-10 just cannibalize themselves and Drake wins the tournament, the MVC is at least a 2-bid league.

Although, on the whole issue of having to get to the tournament for the season to be a "success" .. eerily, I pretty well agree with you.

[WSUbballer]

right on what? Pre-season predictions? everyone missed those, I don't feel too bad about that.

On games, I believe I got the Drake - CU game correct, and almost every SIU game so far, except for the road win at Evansville and a few in the non con.

I've missed some Drake predictions, and other than that I haven't commented on any other games or teams.

so lets see I've got 20 SIU games, and about 5 Drake games I've made predictions on...that's 25 games.

I've missed 4 out of 5 on Drake, and I've made about 16/20 on SIU, so that makes me what, 17 out of 25 for 68%. Not too bad in the world of predictions.

but you're right, i've been wrong a bunch.

Add in the 50 or so times that you've said Drake is unimpressive, which of course is wrong, and that percentage drops to around 23%.

That's a big fat F Dawgie.

[WSUbballer]

I think I've come to realize Dawgie is just doing all this 'me against the world' logic just to get attention and get under people's skin. It's gotten real old and we've all gotten dumber for reading it. No way can someone actually be this stupid. No way at all.

[tmmroy]

Digger, Bilas and the boys didn't seem to think so.......they felt you needed to win the MVC tourney. Not saying they are right, but apperently not everyoen is sold on Drake.

Just wanted to point out, I don't think there's ever been a team that was ranked in both polls that missed the tourney. (I'll admit I haven't bothered to check though.)

As far as goals are concerned, I think that this season probably is worthless, if we don't make the tournament, at least in some ways. We probably lose a lot, if not all, of the newer fans, we probably should be expecting to make it, as a team after what we've done so far, anyway, I'll have to admit DS has a point or two.

On the other hand, from looking at it based on where Drake was pre-season, Drake has already met just about every goal they set for themselves, and this season will have to be counted as a huge success towards moving Drake in the direction they want to go as a program. Try not to forget context, and for a team that just had it's first winning season in 20 years this year is a success even if Drake loses all of their remaining games. It just wouldn't be looked at that way if you were SIU or CU, or maybe even DU two years from now.

[WSUbballer]

Although, on the whole issue of having to get to the tournament for the season to be a "success" .. eerily, I pretty well agree with you.

So what Drake has done thus far is officially deemed "unimpressive" in your eyes unless it's a for sure thing they make the NCAAs? Please tell us that you're joking.. Please.. :helpsmilie:

[shockball]

I think I've come to realize Dawgie is just doing all this 'me against the world' logic just to get attention and get under people's skin. It's gotten real old and we've all gotten dumber for reading it. No way can someone actually be this stupid. No way at all.

I'm afraid it's the latter.

[Keita44]

your season, or any valley teams season is absolutely worthless in my opinion if you do not make the NCAA tournament in today's MVC. Stop acting like a Mid major.

I happen to think if the season would end today, you would probably make it, but it doesn't, so we'll find in about 6 weeks.

All your POW's, all your win streaks, all your top 25 ranking mean jack squat if you some how pull a Wichita and don't make the dance.

It's like the Patriots.....their Perfect season will mean absolutley nothing if they don't win the super bowl. It will be tainted, a farce. They must win the super bowl for all those victories to actually mean something.

Make the dance.

You happen to think that the Bulldogs would make the tourney if the season ended today? That is like saying I happen to think the sun will rise tomorrow. :doh:

[DawgieStyle]

Dawgie, i gotta disagree with you on one point. I think if the season ended today, Drake is a LOCK for the dance. I think if they keep winning and lose in the first round in the Lou, drake is still going, although their seed will suffer greatly.

Unless All teams 2-10 just cannibalize themselves and Drake wins the tournament, the MVC is at least a 2-bid league.

Although, on the whole issue of having to get to the tournament for the season to be a "success" .. eerily, I pretty well agree with you.

If Drake keeps rolling and makes the semis or finals of the MVC tourney, I agree, they are in no matter what. If some one knocks them off in the finals, we get 2 in that scenario.

but Drake has to 1) keep this pace up 2) can't win the MVC tourney. If they keep this pace up and win the in lou, its a 1 bid league all the way.

If drake stumbles down the stretch and another team wins in the lou, it still maybe only 1 bid...that's when it gets dicey.

[Keita44]

So what Drake has done thus far is officially deemed "unimpressive" in your eyes unless it's a for sure thing they make the NCAAs? Please tell us that you're joking.. Please.. :helpsmilie:

Not another Dawgie Style! :helpsmilie:

[DawgieStyle]

So what Drake has done thus far is officially deemed "unimpressive" in your eyes unless it's a for sure thing they make the NCAAs? Please tell us that you're joking.. Please.. :helpsmilie:

ahhh...what's the matter, some one else not on your boat.

Sorry, the great wichita fans should know by now...if your such a "media darling" and "high major" as a certain one of your cohorts claims the shockers to be, then making the dance should be the minimum acceptable level of any valley school, including the shockers or drake.

So what, next year, the goal for the shockers isn't to make the dance becaues of a pitiful year this year? Are they not the "class" of the valley, a high major, etc. etc. crap.

What's the goal for the class of the valley? To make the NIT?

I would think the self pro-claimed "high major, Class of the valley, media darlings" would set goals of the NCAA tourney, no matter what they had done in past seasons.

Wait wait, that was unfair, I was using Cold to represent all Shocker fans, my bad, I apologize......:lol:

If Wichta's past has no bearing on what you expect of them, why should Drake's.

[WSUbballer]

You are rambling into a pool of nothingness. I don't get you anymore. You don't even make sense when you post now. The old Dawgie had horrible points, but I could see them at least making sense and understanding them. This new Dawgie is even more annoying.

What does WSU have to do with any of this? You're the sole reason everything goes off topic on this website.

It's all about relevance - a word you know absolutely nothing about. From where Drake was and is now is impressive. I don't care if they make the Tournament or not. Going from a perennial cellar dweller to a Top 16 ranking, without losing a conference game thus far is impressive. You know damn well if SIU was in this position, you'd be all over the Salukis' nuts on how great and impressive they are.. but since it's Drake, they're not worthy..

It's not for you to decide the goals of each individual team. Leave that for the coach and players of a team.

You're a fraud that argues to argue. You make no sense. You have no valid points. You can't stand it when you're proven wrong. You're stubborn and clueless.

It's no wonder this place stinks so much with the 4000 posts of garbage you've put up in this place.

Such an idiot.

[WSUbballer]

Spin away:

Grambling State is 2-12 in the SWAC with wins over Texas Southern and Jackson State on the year. Let's say they land 8th in the SWAC, get lucky and win 3 in a row in the conference tournament and make the NCAA's. So, that makes Grambling State, a team with say 6 or 7 wins all in the SWAC, an impressive team?

[DawgieStyle]

From where Drake was and is now is impressive.

no its not. That's my freaking point. It doesn't matter where they were. That's why I brought Wicita into the discussion, becuase that's your team.

After the shocker's horrid season this year, are you going to be "impressed" next year if they only break .500 or make the NIT?

I know I won't be "impressed" by SIU next year, after this bad season, if they only make the NIT or finish with a winning record. That's crap. I expect more, even they are bad this year. Make the dance.

The status of this league in my opinion mandates making the NCAA tourney to be considered successful. Any thing less is a failure, no matter what you accomplished the year before, or 20 years before, as in Drake's case.

Using Drake's poor history is crutch or an excuse to pump up what most valleys schools would see as their goal anyway (the NCAA tourney). Don't. Drake is part of the MVC, act like they are.

The Selection committee sure as heck doesn't care about the past 20 years, why should we? Especially if the Valley has grown and gotten better as ALL of us claim it has? Why should we make exceptions for Drake, or evansville, or any team, simply because they were poor teams in the past?

[WSUbballer]

no its not. That's my freaking point. It doesn't matter where they were. That's why I brought Wicita into the discussion, becuase that's your team.

You obviously have no idea what the definition of 'impressive' is. Maybe you should've consulted a dictionary about a month or two ago and it would've saved you from all of this embarrassment.

After the shocker's horrid season this year, are you going to be "impressed" next year if they only break .500 or make the NIT?

After finishing in the bottom two this year, and considering we'll have a lot of youth and inexperience next year, hell yeah I'd take .500 or the NIT. Two years of no postseason makes any postseason look yummy. I would definitely be surprised, joyful, and impressed. But that's a year away.

I know I won't be "impressed" by SIU next year, after this bad season, if they only make the NIT or finish with a winning record. That's crap. I expect more, even they are bad this year. Make the dance.

I wonder if North Carolina fans or Kansas fans will be impressed if they make the NCAA Tournament but don't win a game in it this year. By your definition though, they should be impressed.

The status of this league in my opinion mandates making the NCAA tourney to be considered successful. Any thing less is a failure, no matter what you accomplished the year before, or 20 years before, as in Drake's case.

So dumb. It's not even worth trying anymore.

Using Drake's poor history is crutch or an excuse to pump up what most valleys schools would see as their goal anyway (the NCAA tourney). Don't. Drake is part of the MVC, act like they are.

Maybe you should be telling yourself that, dillweed. Drake is apart of the MVC, therefore they're unimpressive... :noexpression:

The Selection committee sure as heck doesn't care about the past 20 years, why should we? Especially if the Valley has grown and gotten better as ALL of us claim it has? Why should we make exceptions for Drake, or evansville, or any team, simply because they were poor teams in the past?

Because it actually makes sense.

No the committee doesn't care what Drake has done for 20 years, but Drake players and fans care. That's why I'm sure they're impressed on how this season has turned out, considering the past 20 haven't been so great.

[WSUbballer]

You can't respond to this, can you:

It's all about relevance - a word you know absolutely nothing about. From where Drake was and is now is impressive. I don't care if they make the Tournament or not. Going from a perennial cellar dweller to a Top 16 ranking, without losing a conference game thus far is impressive. You know damn well if SIU was in this position, you'd be all over the Salukis' nuts on how great and impressive they are.. but since it's Drake, they're not worthy..

or this:

Spin away:

Grambling State is 2-12 in the SWAC with wins over Texas Southern and Jackson State on the year. Let's say they land 8th in the SWAC, get lucky and win 3 in a row in the conference tournament and make the NCAA's. So, that makes Grambling State, a team with say 6 or 7 wins all in the SWAC, an impressive team?

Why? Because you have nothing. You lose.

[Drakey]

worthless from a goals and achievment stand point.

If I were SIU, I'd be playing my young guys who are going to be here the next 2-3 years as much as I could to develop them at a faster rate for next year, and getting them ready to contribute for the MVC tourney this year, our last chance to make the NCAA dance this year.

I sure hope you never reproduce. I would like to see your resume to see how amazing you really are.

[DawgieStyle]

No the committee doesn't care what Drake has done for 20 years, but Drake players and fans care. That's why I'm sure they're impressed on how this season has turned out, considering the past 30.

THANK YOU! It only matters to Drake fans! Any outside observer, especially someone outside the MVC fan base, could give a rats @#$ about what drake has done in the past. They don't care, and it has no bearing on what they percieve Drake has accomplished this year. All they see or care about is this year.

They look at the MVC, and go, which teams made the dance, and that's all they care about. The NCAA tourney teams are the only teams outsiders of this conf. care about, and the only ones, they will think are any good. They could care less what drake has done for the last 30 years.

Make the dance, and Drake will reap all the respect they want, including mine...make the dance.

[DawgieStyle]

You can't respond to this, can you:



or this:



Why? Because you have nothing. You lose.

the grambling thing you mentioned is an exception to the rule. You are trying to use abberations to prop up your arguement and avoiding the big picture I am trying to paint, which is, The goal of any successful MVC team is to make the dance.

If Grambling upsets those 2 teams, and they still don't garner an at large, they weren't that good anyways. As for Grambling being impressive, exception to the rule, and again, you are using that to deflect the bigger picture.

as far as SIU being in that positon, I've already addressed that. Even though they've had a poor season this year, I will not be satisfied next year with anything less than a trip to the NCAA Tournament.

[DawgieStyle]

I sure hope you never reproduce. I would like to see your resume to see how amazing you really are.

wow, that was a productive post, that had absolutley no mention of basketball or any valley team in the post...way to go.

You may not like my position, but that's no reason to begin personal attacks, that's always a sign of frustration or a failure to articulate your position.

I'm sorry. The Missouri Valley has made too much progress the last 10 years to be "impressed" by anything less than a trip to the NCAA tournament.

That's the precedent set, that's the goal of this conference, and its the way out of being a "mid major" conference.

[WSUbballer]

There are no exceptions to the "rule" you made up Dawgie. Either you're in the NCAA Tournament or not and that correlates if you're "impressive" or not. Period.

I'm not talking about next year in regards to SIU. Insert SIU in for Drake this year. Meaning, SIU is 18-1, 10-0 in conference, #16 in the country, on a 17-game winning streak. You would think SIU was impressive. No doubt in my mind, or anyone's mind. But since Drake is the team that has this resume, they're not impressive to you. That's why you're a hypocrite. And that's why you're an idiot.

You're not even worth it anymore. It's like arguing with a 6 year old.

[WSUbballer]

wow, that was a productive post, that had absolutley no mention of basketball or any valley team in the post...way to go.

You may not like my position, but that's no reason to begin personal attacks, that's always a sign of frustration or a failure to articulate your position.

I'm sorry. The Missouri Valley has made too much progress the last 10 years to be "impressed" by anything less than a trip to the NCAA tournament.

That's the precedent set, that's the goal of this conference, and its the way out of being a "mid major" conference.

Drakey's post was a thousand times more productive than any of the 3700 + you've posted.

Your SIU-enhanced view of the Valley has nothing to do with Drake, so get the FLUCK over it already.

Besides, you were the one who constantly was on the Valley's balls about being lower than any of the BCS conferences and always dragging the Valley down. Now, all of a sudden, you're infatuated with the Valley.

Sick..

Sick and twisted.

[DawgieStyle]

Drakey's post was a thousand times more productive than any of the 3700 + you've posted.

Your SIU-enhanced view of the Valley has nothing to do with Drake, so get the FLUCK over it already.

Besides, you were the one who constantly was on the Valley's balls about being lower than any of the BCS conferences and always dragging the Valley down. Now, all of a sudden, you're infatuated with the Valley.

Sick..

Sick and twisted.

nice try. I don't think the valley is on par with the Big 6...still don't. I do however think it has progressed past accepting anything less than the NCAA tournament for its teams.

I also think if you want to move past the "mid major" label you have to start acting like it. Being concerned with what your team has done 20 years ago or even last year is a step backward in my opinion.

I don't think we are on par with the Big 10 or Big 12, but if we want to reach that level, at some point we have to start expecting the same results as they do, and at some point attaining those results.

To do that, we have to start

1) accepting the fact that making the NCAA tournament is the minimum a team needs to do, to be considered a successful season.

2) stop referencing the past and how far the valley has come, and blablablalbalblablab. It doesn't matter. Pointing out where the valley was, or drake was, etc. etc. hurts the conf. more than it helps. No one wants to hear how bad Drake was or the valley was 15 years ago, what they want to hear is how good it is today.