Our Conference Tournament

[Hail Red & White]

In 2007 the Missouri Valley Conference had the highest attendance for its championship game than any other conference in America. To me, that's mucho impressive, but the feat will probably be surpassed this year since the Big 10 plays at the dome in Indianapolis and the SEC is at the Georgia Dome.

Still, our tourney has grown in popularity with the member school's fan bases and the non-aligned public from the St. Louis area over the years. I can remember the MVC tourney drawing 42,000+ fans for four days just 8 years ago, and that was a record for the time. Having the final game played Sunday afternoon as opposed to Monday night has probably helped too.

Here are the attendance figures for 2008 so far, according to the official conference website:

Thursday 7849
Friday (day) 13,581
Friday (night) 15,204
Saturday 16,829

Total heading into Sunday's championship game: 53,463

Another thing I noticed about the Missouri Valley compared to the BCS conferences is that the crowd isn't as "sanitized" in that, you can hear lots of lusty cheers for each made basket by opposing schools. Crowds at bigger conference tourneys can sometimes come off as a "wine & cheese" or "museum" crowd. I like museums and wine & cheese parties, but our atmosphere in St. Louis is more akin to a packed karaoke bar where everyone's having a good time, even if the singers are lousy and the drinks are watered down!

Thanks once again to the member schools' fans, the Valley office, and the nonpartisan St. Louis area fans for making the MVC Tourney so successful.

[IndyTreeFan]

I was able to make it over to my first tournament this weekend. Talk about impressive! I cannot imagine a better atmosphere for a basketball tournament than what we have in St. Louis! The quality of basketball, the great schools, the rabid fans - it just doesn't get any better!

One correction to your post above - the Big Ten doesn't play their tournament at the RCA Dome, it's at Conseco Fieldhouse, where they won't come close to the atmosphere we have. A great venue, but not a "classic" tournament. I'd love to have the MVC tourney there, but there's just one problem - it's not big enough! (18,345)

At any rate - good luck to the schools who will be carrying our banner in the postseason!!!!
:bounceblue::sycamores::bounceblue::valley::bounce blue:

[MSU Bleeds Maroon]

I don't care how popular the MVC Tournament gets. If they ever decide to hold it in one of those indoor warehouses that normally holds a football team, I'll think twice about buying tickets.

[Hail Red & White]

Thanks for the correction Indy Tree Fan. You're right MSU Bleeds Maroon--games in domes lose all the intamacy that makes basketball attractive. Too bad the NCAA is more concerned about making scratch for the finals.

[Hail Red & White]

The final game between Drake and Illinois State drew only 11,088 today. The four-day total comes to 67,551 (better than 13,000 per session average). Still, that should put the Missouri Valley in the top 10 in terms of conference tournament attendance, and that's nothing to sneeze at. Good job all the way around.

[Nyghtewynd]

All those SIU fans were dressed as empty seats.

[Hail Red & White]

All those SIU fans were dressed as empty seats.

Not only that, but they sat on their hands! My math skills have taken a beating over the years...final attendance figure was 64,551 (just under 13,000 per session).

[indianasaluki]

Wow, only 11000 for the championship game? That game must of felt like a SLU game. To bad both teams didn't fill up the arena, because both teams are worthy playing in front of sold out arena. Good luck to Drake and IL State in the NCAA tournament.

:valley:

[DannyCooksey]

My first time at Arch Madness. Good times. good basketball.

The Scottrade Center is a toilet. The building is 12-13 years old and it looks and smells like it's 87 years old. The continuous backed up toilets near section 120 on Friday weren't fun either. Not a terrible place to see a game, but it's a dump in my opinion.

[Mc Bulldog]

A dump? :lol:

[JerryBearSeinfeld]

My first time at Arch Madness. Good times. good basketball.

The Scottrade Center is a toilet. The building is 12-13 years old and it looks and smells like it's 87 years old. The continuous backed up toilets near section 120 on Friday weren't fun either. Not a terrible place to see a game, but it's a dump in my opinion.


if my team was getting their A** kicked by 30, i too would be behide our section in the restroom ****ing.

scottrade center is a world class arena
It hosts approximately 175 events per year, drawing nearly 2 million guests annually. For the first quarter 2006, Scottrade Center ranked second among arenas in the United States and fourth worldwide in tickets sold. Pollstar, a highly respected industry trade publication, consistently ranks Scottrade Center among the top 10 arenas worldwide in tickets sold to non-team events.
The arena is frequently selected by the NCAA for championship events, and played host to the NCAA Frozen Four Hockey Championships in April 2007, and will host the NCAA Wrestling Championships in 2008 and 2009 and the NCAA Women’s Final Four Basketball Championships in 2009

[Cdizzle]

if my team was getting their A** kicked by 30, i too would be behide our section in the restroom ****ing.



You didn't have to be in the restroom to be aware of the problem. Water flooded one of the concourse entrances and started running down the steps and aisles. It was a mess.

[chuckywang]

Sounds like a great time (except for that toilet fiasco). I hope to attend one year.

[DawgieStyle]

My first time at Arch Madness. Good times. good basketball.

The Scottrade Center is a toilet. The building is 12-13 years old and it looks and smells like it's 87 years old. The continuous backed up toilets near section 120 on Friday weren't fun either. Not a terrible place to see a game, but it's a dump in my opinion.

The Scottrade Center is not a toilet. I'm sorry you're team had a rough go of it yesterday, ours did too this weekend, but that arena is a great place to watch a game.

I know it can't measure up to the greatness of redbird arena, but what can....:noexpression:

The toilets over flowing is sad to hear. but one instance doesn't make it a bad place. If that happened every game, or at every event, I'd understand the comment that the place was a dump.

It was an isolated incident. It's a building, stuff goes wrong, and you have to fix it. Sometimes the problem can't be fixed in 5 minutes, give them a break. The next time your home's toilet backs up, I'm gonna call it a dump.

[DannyCooksey]

Thanks for not reading what I said.

The toilets and my experience with them on Friday had nothing to do with my feeling of getting waxed yesterday. If I had access to a computer on Friday I would have posted it then. Last night was my first opportunity.

I think it's an average arena at best. The toilets compounded that but overall the place looked less than what I expected. Redbird Arena has nothing to do with it DS. It looks run down, dirty and not as nice as I thought it would be given it's relatively young age.

For comparison I would use the United Center in Chicago. Similar in size and about the same age, hold about the same number of events yearly. The UC is a much nicer facility all the way around. Just my opinion. Sue me.

[DawgieStyle]

Thanks for not reading what I said.

The toilets and my experience with them on Friday had nothing to do with my feeling of getting waxed yesterday. If I had access to a computer on Friday I would have posted it then. Last night was my first opportunity.

I think it's an average arena at best. The toilets compounded that but overall the place looked less than what I expected. Redbird Arena has nothing to do with it DS. It looks run down, dirty and not as nice as I thought it would be given it's relatively young age.

For comparison I would use the United Center in Chicago. Similar in size and about the same age, hold about the same number of events yearly. The UC is a much nicer facility all the way around. Just my opinion. Sue me.

I'm sorry you had a bad experience. I didn't think it looked dirty or run down. Maybe we have different ideas of what that is tho. I don't think it's the best stadium in the world, but for the MVC, it's a great place to have the tournament.

That said, I had a good time this weekend, despite the loss. Took the Anheuser Busch Tour, did the irish pub at John D. McGurk's, Partied at Morgan's Brewery, The hilton lobby, Hooters, and the Big Bang on Saturday. We even walked through the wax museum (the guy in charge was as high as a kite). Hit Hard rock for lunch yesterday, and back here to carbondale.

All in all, fun weekend.

[DannyCooksey]

The next time your home's toilet backs up, I'm gonna call it a dump.

If I invite 15,000+ people over for a party that is planned months in advance and my toilet backs up, I'll call it a dump too. Especially when I have a 2 hour window between sessions to have it fixed and the problem repeats. You can defend that all you want but that's unacceptable. Once...maybe. For the problem to repeat when there was ample time to fix the issue.....not good. Not sure about you, but I don't care to sit in human waste.

I also wouldn't send the employees in there to clean it with mops when they needed sandbags and industrial sized vaccuums. It's called being prepared. They weren't. Those poor people had no chance to clean that up with mops.

No......it has nothing to do with my team losing yesterday. They've had a very good season and until yesterday a very good tournament.

The thread was started to discuss the tournament. The venue holding the tourney is part of that discussion. This was my first time attending Arch madness. I thought it would be a nicer area. My mistake.

[DawgieStyle]

If I invite 15,000+ people over for a party that is planned months in advance and my toilet backs up, I'll call it a dump too. Especially when I have a 2 hour window between sessions to have it fixed and the problem repeats. You can defend that all you want but that's unacceptable. Once...maybe. For the problem to repeat when there was ample time to fix the issue.....not good. Not sure about you, but I don't care to sit in human waste.

I also wouldn't send the employees in there to clean it with mops when they needed sandbags and industrial sized vaccuums. It's called being prepared. They weren't. Those poor people had no chance to clean that up with mops.

No......it has nothing to do with my team losing yesterday. They've had a very good season and until yesterday a very good tournament.

The thread was started to discuss the tournament. The venue holding the tourney is part of that discussion. This was my first time attending Arch madness. I thought it would be a nicer area. My mistake.


its ok, if you think its a dump, that's cool. I'm just sorry you had a bad time. Did you go anywhere else while you were in St. Louis.

[DannyCooksey]

its ok, if you think its a dump, that's cool. I'm just sorry you had a bad time. Did you go anywhere else while you were in St. Louis.

I had a great time in St. Louis overall. I enjoyed it very much. I will be back.

Took the A-B tour Saturday before the games. That was a tremendous experience. Went to Hooter's, some bar on the Landing that had good pizza, Union Station, downtown St. Louis was good. Saw some very entertaining basketball. Parking was cheap. The natives were nice people. Service was good.

I enjoyed it very much overall. I just didn't care for the Scottrade Center and the toilets were a factor in that but not the only factor.

[KingTut]

I was sitting near the flood zone. The area under probably five or six sections was flooded. The beer stand in one corner all the way over to the bathrooms in another corner. I'm sure my row-mates weren't happy with it, as it forced me to use the wrong aisle and climb over 10 people to get to my seat instead of two.

But as far as the building goes it seems pretty decent. They even walled off the club level to make it seem more exclusive.

The one major complaint I have is the scoreboard operation. It was bad last year and it continued this year. If you counted, it took on average three seconds after a bucket to put the score up. I lost count of how many times they put the score or foul up for the wrong team.

A good scoreboard operator has the points up there before you can even look up from the basket to the scoreboard. A good scoreboard operator doesn't constantly screw up points and fouls. Speed is crucial when fans are glancing up at the scoreboard after a made basket to check the score.

One more complaint/question: I had issues with two of the valley trivia questions during timeouts. First, is Altman really the most experienced MVC coach, what with his leaving for Arkansas for a day? And another question asked who was the last team to win both the regular season and tourney title games. They said it was ISU. Creighton split with SIU and won the tourney more recently than that.

[cufan]

You are correct, they should have asked who was the last number one seed to win the tournament? Then it would have been Ill. St. Otherwise the last regular season champ to win the tourney was in fact Creighton.

[JCPanthers]

My first time at Arch Madness. Good times. good basketball.

The Scottrade Center is a toilet. The building is 12-13 years old and it looks and smells like it's 87 years old. The continuous backed up toilets near section 120 on Friday weren't fun either. Not a terrible place to see a game, but it's a dump in my opinion.Sorry bout that...Danny. My wife keeps telling me that I use too much toilet paper.:naughty:

[DoubleJayAlum]

The final game between Drake and Illinois State drew only 11,088 today. The four-day total comes to 67,551 (better than 13,000 per session average). Still, that should put the Missouri Valley in the top 10 in terms of conference tournament attendance, and that's nothing to sneeze at. Good job all the way around.

Very dissapointing attendence for the championship. For the most part, the upper bowl was pretty much vacant. Last year one was hard pressed to find an open seat anywhere. The sound level between last year and this year was noticeably different.

The fact of the matter is that certain teams travel much better than others. SIU, CU and WSU have the largest travelling fanbases. If one of them isn't in the final, the figures are going to be down. Last year's numbers for Saturday were also better than this years. On Saturday last year there was a sell out and tons of people that didn't come down until Saturday were unable to get tix. That was because SIU and CU were playing, along with Bradley (who also travels very well) and MSU (who, until this year at least, also travelled very well.)

Its possible that if Drake and Illinois St stay at the top, they will start having more fans that start making the trip, but as of right now that simply isn't the case.

[ISUMatt]

As a Blackhawks fan, IT KILLS ME to sit in the home of the Blues for the MVC Tournament :lol: For me its too dark, everything is blue, I know why, but it just doesnt look good to me...And the toilet fiasco was BS...they decided to re-locate some people to a suite, and some of us had to move over somewhere or we will find you a spot upstairs...OK move me from a nice spot close to the action to upstairs, cmon Scottrade, you have to come up with something better than that...hell 2 couple of free $10 beers maybe would have helped...And I know you all dont understand how bad the flood was, buit even after they swished it around on dirty mops, it reeked all weekend in that corner...and so you know, its not really cleaning the floor unless you use hot soapy water EVERYTIME!!! All they did was push it around and spread the crap...I felt aweful for the 4-5 employees they designated to 'clean' that area...What was even worse was after we all moved over during the UNI/SIU game, a couple from SIU ran down to sit in our seats and after being warned that there was piss/crap water flowing down the stairs, they said we dont care and took their dirty piss/crap soaked shoes and put them on the seats in front of them...classless bastages (those 2 fans, not all SIU fans)

[Dawg_tired]

Very dissapointing attendence for the championship. For the most part, the upper bowl was pretty much vacant. Last year one was hard pressed to find an open seat anywhere. The sound level between last year and this year was noticeably different.

The fact of the matter is that certain teams travel much better than others. SIU, CU and WSU have the largest travelling fanbases. If one of them isn't in the final, the figures are going to be down. Last year's numbers for Saturday were also better than this years. On Saturday last year there was a sell out and tons of people that didn't come down until Saturday were unable to get tix. That was because SIU and CU were playing, along with Bradley (who also travels very well) and MSU (who, until this year at least, also travelled very well.)

Its possible that if Drake and Illinois St stay at the top, they will start having more fans that start making the trip, but as of right now that simply isn't the case.

Who sold how many tickets? I heard that Drake was second to CU.

[SubGod22]

Speaking of the scoreboard....How many times did they not even come close to having the right lineups in? I'd go to see how many points or fouls so and so had and they were no where to be found.

[Ferocious Cat]

Speaking of the scoreboard....How many times did they not even come close to having the right lineups in? I'd go to see how many points or fouls so and so had and they were no where to be found.

On the rare occasion that UNI did score...the points were added to the Redbirds once...and at other times the score wasn't added to UNI's total for an eternity. Apparently the scoreboard operator was just as bored as the rest of us with the UNI offense.

[MSU Bleeds Maroon]

As a Blackhawks fan, IT KILLS ME to sit in the home of the Blues for the MVC Tournament :lol:

You shouldn't have felt uncomfortable... the size of the crowd for the play-in games should have felt almost exactly like the crowd for a Bleak Hoax game. :innocent:

[Mc Bulldog]

You didn't have to be in the restroom to be aware of the problem. Water flooded one of the concourse entrances and started running down the steps and aisles. It was a mess.


I heard DawgieStool had a little sumthun, sumthun, knocking at the hatch.

[DoubleJayAlum]

Who sold how many tickets? I heard that Drake was second to CU.

Got a link? And isn't that just presales of all tourney passes? A lot of SIU and CU fans buy walk-up tix, not all session passes. It would seem near impossible to track who purchases walk-ups...

I know you didn't attend the tourney last year, so you may have taken my initial comment the wrong way. If you would have seen last year's attendence at the final, you would have to agree that this year's numbers were significantly less. I'm sure Drake fans that were there last year would admit that the upper bowl last year was almost completely full (mostly with CU & SIU fans), while this year there were substantial gaps in even the lower bowl. Last year it appeared that CU & SIU fans largely bought up the all-session lower bowl tickets dumped by teams eliminated from the final. Its also a fact that last year the Saturday session was a complete sell-out. That was not true this year.

[Ricky Del Rio]

Speaking of the scoreboard....How many times did they not even come close to having the right lineups in? I'd go to see how many points or fouls so and so had and they were no where to be found.


I was told that the WSU scoreboard operator was in charge of the scoreboard in St. Louis.

[REALBird]

Well I'm from Chicago, so I'm obviously a bit biased when I say I agree with DC on comparing the UC to the ScottSavisKiel Center. Overall, I'd go one step further by saying that St. Louis was disappointing to say the least. Having been there when the St. Louis Centre was still a mall, and when Union Station was bustling with shops the experience outside of the tournament was disappointing, especially bringing kids with you.

Unlike Chicago, I didn't want to drive 40 miles to go eat something NOT deep fried, or that disgusting Imo's Pizza. Since I had small kids the A-B tour or much of the happenings on the Landing didn't appeal to me. Riverboat gambling...out of the question!

If our hotel didn't have a pool, I don't know what we would have done to pass the time. In all honesty, I choose to watch all the other teams play rather than search for something to do in the Lou!

If it wasn't for the ticket scalpers and people going to and from the game, you would have been hard pressed to know that there was a tournament going on in town.

And before anyone flames me...I know ISU could have brought more fans to the game to make up for the abysmal attendance, but if having Missouri State and SIU reach the semi-finals is what it takes to keep people in town the whole weekend, I wish the Valley would have moved the tournament to Chicago, KC, or to the Wells Fargo Arena in Des Moines. IMHO, the site is neutral in location alone, but not in terms of the fan base of STL.

[Aces1982]

Well I'm from Chicago, so I'm obviously a bit biased when I say I agree with DC on comparing the UC to the ScottSavisKiel Center. Overall, I'd go one step further by saying that St. Louis was disappointing to say the least. Having been there when the St. Louis Centre was still a mall, and when Union Station was bustling with shops the experience outside of the tournament was disappointing, especially bringing kids with you.

Unlike Chicago, I didn't want to drive 40 miles to go eat something NOT deep fried, or that disgusting Imo's Pizza. Since I had small kids the A-B tour or much of the happenings on the Landing didn't appeal to me. Riverboat gambling...out of the question!

If our hotel didn't have a pool, I don't know what we would have done to pass the time. In all honesty, I choose to watch all the other teams play rather than search for something to do in the Lou!

If it wasn't for the ticket scalpers and people going to and from the game, you would have been hard pressed to know that there was a tournament going on in town.

And before anyone flames me...I know ISU could have brought more fans to the game to make up for the abysmal attendance, but if having Missouri State and SIU reach the semi-finals is what it takes to keep people in town the whole weekend, I wish the Valley would have moved the tournament to Chicago, KC, or to the Wells Fargo Arena in Des Moines. IMHO, the site is neutral in location alone, but not in terms of the fan base of STL.

For kids you should have tried Magic House, City Museum, and St. Louis Science Center...3 days 3 great activities for the kids.

[DawgieStyle]

Well I'm from Chicago, so I'm obviously a bit biased when I say I agree with DC on comparing the UC to the ScottSavisKiel Center. Overall, I'd go one step further by saying that St. Louis was disappointing to say the least. Having been there when the St. Louis Centre was still a mall, and when Union Station was bustling with shops the experience outside of the tournament was disappointing, especially bringing kids with you.

Unlike Chicago, I didn't want to drive 40 miles to go eat something NOT deep fried, or that disgusting Imo's Pizza. Since I had small kids the A-B tour or much of the happenings on the Landing didn't appeal to me. Riverboat gambling...out of the question!

If our hotel didn't have a pool, I don't know what we would have done to pass the time. In all honesty, I choose to watch all the other teams play rather than search for something to do in the Lou!

If it wasn't for the ticket scalpers and people going to and from the game, you would have been hard pressed to know that there was a tournament going on in town.

And before anyone flames me...I know ISU could have brought more fans to the game to make up for the abysmal attendance, but if having Missouri State and SIU reach the semi-finals is what it takes to keep people in town the whole weekend, I wish the Valley would have moved the tournament to Chicago, KC, or to the Wells Fargo Arena in Des Moines. IMHO, the site is neutral in location alone, but not in terms of the fan base of STL.

You sure you were in St. Louis? Every place we visited had huge welcome sings for MVC fans, and every place we went had tons of MVC fans there, from all schools. You couldn't get away from it.

You are complaining about not having anything for the kids to do? I've been to downtown chicago, next to the United Center, with in walking distance, there aint much. If you are looking for kid friendly activities, it's a fair bet, no matter what city you go to, you are going to have to seek those out and do a little driving or taking the subway to get there. They aren't going to be next to a stadium full of beer drinking idiots, and if it is, they need their business lisc. taken away. Unless there is "kid zone" associated specifically with the stadium.

If you have kids you should visit the museum, science center, or god forbid take them to watch a basketball game (I have no idea where you can have done this, but I'm sure you could have found a couple games going on......)

I'm sorry you and your family didn't have a good time, but there are oppurtunites to do so, you just need to do your research.

I know St. Louis isn't the best city in the world, but it's not as bad as you make it to be. I think people from down town Chicago get spoiled that everything is with in walking distance, when the reality is most places in this world don't have that luxury.

[Aces101]

The St. Louis Zoo, Purina Farms working farm, and the World Bird Sanctuary are great places to go with kids and are also FREE.

[DawgieStyle]

The St. Louis Zoo, Purina Farms working farm, and the World Bird Sanctuary are great places to go with kids and are also FREE.

grants farm as well, where they house the Clydesdales (Sp?) for Budweiser.

[Aegyptus]

For kids you should have tried Magic House, City Museum, and St. Louis Science Center...3 days 3 great activities for the kids.

Exactly, there are lots of great things to do, you just didn't do your research. I think Saint Louis is more family friendly than most cities.

But, I understand your concerns about downtown. Here are a couple thoughts:

1. Scottrade/Savvis/Kiel is a little separated from the true downtown, the business district, which is on the other side of the mall - not that there is a lot of people over their either, but there is more. In fact, Washington Avenue would have met a lot of your needs (I am not sure whether you checked that out, it is like 7 blocks away). Union Station used to fill this people void, but Union Station is in a decline period. That sucks, but it just is and I don't really see it improving anytime soon.

2. There is a new shopping/entertainment area coming. Actually 2. Both Ballpark Village (http://www.kmov.com/perl/common/slideshow/sspop.pl?recid=830&location=www.kmov.com) (Saint Louis' answer to the Power and Light District) and the Mercantile Exchange (http://www.mxstl.com/) are districts that should meet the needs of out of towners looking for some shopping and a place to eat and spend some time in future years. Probably not next year, but by 2010 both of those districts should by functioning at least some.

3. Lots of Saint Louis' cool attractions are closed in the Winter. Would it be possible for the Conference to coordinate the opening of some of these activities for the weekend? For instance, I was going to recommend that you take a cruise on the riverboat at the Arch, but I am not sure it will always be open for the tournament, but I am sure they could be available if they knew the Missouri Valley was directly marketing for people to attend. Even if they are just open Saturday afternoon or something that would help. Same goes for the Zoo, Grant's Farm, Botanical Gardens, ... seems like something could be done on that front. I know it is not like a professional conference, which these kinds of places are sometimes opened for, but with a little coordination, seems like the conference and schools could put together some interesting activities when the games are not going on.

[Mecha_Bulldog]

Got a link? And isn't that just presales of all tourney passes? A lot of SIU and CU fans buy walk-up tix, not all session passes. It would seem near impossible to track who purchases walk-ups...

I know you didn't attend the tourney last year, so you may have taken my initial comment the wrong way. If you would have seen last year's attendence at the final, you would have to agree that this year's numbers were significantly less. I'm sure Drake fans that were there last year would admit that the upper bowl last year was almost completely full (mostly with CU & SIU fans), while this year there were substantial gaps in even the lower bowl. Last year it appeared that CU & SIU fans largely bought up the all-session lower bowl tickets dumped by teams eliminated from the final. Its also a fact that last year the Saturday session was a complete sell-out. That was not true this year.

The final was a little empty, but overall ticket sales were still the second highest ever.

[Ferocious Cat]

For kids you should have tried Magic House, City Museum, and St. Louis Science Center...3 days 3 great activities for the kids.

You nailed it...besides my son wanting a bulldog named Spike:no: all I hear about is the 3 story slides at the City Museum, and the electrostatic generator that makes your hair stand on end at the Magic House. The zoo is also a must.

[Brave2001]

For kids you should have tried Magic House, City Museum, and St. Louis Science Center...3 days 3 great activities for the kids.

Hell, my kid isn't old enough to go the city museum...and I think it rocks. I took my wifes nephew a couple years ago and climbing to the top of the scaffolding to reach the plane at the top is awesome...just pray your not scared of heights.

As far as not anything to do for kids in St. Louis...the poster who said that obviously didn't take 30 seconds to hop on line and check it out.

I didn't got to the tourney this year, but I've been almost every year before and St. Louis is great at hosting the tourney, they pull out the welcome wagon very nicely. It's true Union Station is down, but is that really the highlight of St. Louis anyhow?

Wasn't there talk of some new entertainment district being built near downtown thats gonna have a Cabo Wabo Cantina? That would rock.

Other things to do in St. Louis besides those mentioned:

Take a tour of the Arch

The Botanical Gardens in the summer (My wife dragged me there, and I ended up enjoying it quite a bit)

The Galleria (or drop your wife and kids there to shop while you go get a beer or something....they'll spend hours there...that place is huge)

Expensive but really good italian restaurants on the Hill

I've never been, but theres a real nice area called Blueberry Hill thats also supposed to be really fun

Go on a river boat ride/dinner (do they still do this?)

That's got to be like 20 different things to do with those and everyone else's reccomendations.

[Brave2001]

Wasn't there talk of some new entertainment district being built near downtown thats gonna have a Cabo Wabo Cantina? That would rock.


Gonna answer my own question.

http://www.thebottledistrict.com/main.cfm

That seems like its gonna be nice

[Aces101]

St. Louis is the best family-oriented city that I have visited or lived. I lived there for 3 years and always had something to do.

[Dawg_tired]

Got a link? And isn't that just presales of all tourney passes? A lot of SIU and CU fans buy walk-up tix, not all session passes. It would seem near impossible to track who purchases walk-ups...

I know you didn't attend the tourney last year, so you may have taken my initial comment the wrong way. If you would have seen last year's attendence at the final, you would have to agree that this year's numbers were significantly less. I'm sure Drake fans that were there last year would admit that the upper bowl last year was almost completely full (mostly with CU & SIU fans), while this year there were substantial gaps in even the lower bowl. Last year it appeared that CU & SIU fans largely bought up the all-session lower bowl tickets dumped by teams eliminated from the final. Its also a fact that last year the Saturday session was a complete sell-out. That was not true this year.

i have no idea whether what I heard is true. I do think that the allotment of tickets depends on what the team's fans have done in the past. Obviously, given Drake's last twenty years that would put us at the bottom. We certainly didn't have the best seats. How well a team travels has a lot to do with how large the school is. Drake has 3500 students versus WSU's 15,000. Also, the avid fan base has been brutalized by years of basketball that you can hardly call mediocre. Give us a couple years of being competitive and we'll travel better.

[scrove]

You nailed it...besides my son wanting a bulldog named Spike:no: all I hear about is the 3 story slides at the City Museum, and the electrostatic generator that makes your hair stand on end at the Magic House. The zoo is also a must.

Sounds like you've got a smart kid there!
:bulldogs: :panthers:

[Aegyptus]

Gonna answer my own question.

http://www.thebottledistrict.com/main.cfm

That seems like its gonna be nice

The Bottle District is a no go for now. Sorry. It seemed too good to be true ... and it was. But, now that Missouri and Illinois have agreed to a new bridge (http://www.newriverbridge.org/) that empties right into the site of the Bottle District, that might change.

But, all hope is not lost. I am sure you noticed the new casino in town (did anyone go, I would be interested in thoughts) and the casino is beholden to build at least some of this (http://www.pbase.com/stlouis_314/image/91015196.jpg) down by the landing.

Also, there is a new sculpture park (http://images.stltoday.com/stltoday/multimedia/grmp-sculpture-garden.jpg) going in on the mall.

And, Chouteau's Landing (http://www.chouteauslanding.com/) is starting to develop, although there has been no progress on Chouteau's Pond (http://www.greatrivers.info/Projects/GreenwayDetail.aspx?GreenwayId=4).

And finally my personal favorite, from the guy that brought you the City Museum (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Cassilly), is Cementland and Great Rivers Resource Center that are coming soon. Here is a couple articles on it: New York Times (http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/25/arts/design/25ceme.html?fta=y); Riverfront Times (http://www.riverfronttimes.com/2000-09-13/news/there-he-goes-again/). I am not sure when it is going to open ... buy holy smokes that is going to be cool.

Even though the Bottle District is on hold for now (something will spring up there in the next fews years, but not the multi-skyscraper plan that the renderings show), there is still a lot of cool stuff happening right now in Saint Louis and it is a great place do stuff while in town.

[tpguy1]

St. Louis has always been one of my favorite cities, the wife and I go a couple of times a year. We never had trouble finding things to do with our kids and that was years ago.

The city is clean, easy to get around and has many restaurants to choose from, you just need to do your homework online before your trip.

RE: the toilet problems

I had more fun watching the SIU fans playing with the toilet and urinal levers, they had never seen such a thing. I think that an average of 25 pulls a minute from them caused the problem.

The worst SIU fan I saw was trying to drink out of the urinal, thinking it was a water foutain.

[REALBird]

I've been to STL before and without the kids, and I know that there is a Zoo, The Magic House, etc, etc, etc,. but you have to DRIVE to get everywhere and it's not like any of these places are right around the corner.

Yes, downtown in separated and my hotel was downtown, the games were in downtown and I full well expected to find things to do downtown.

But I'll be honest....STL will never make my list of top cities to visit for any reason except the MVC tournament or a Cubs/Cards baseball game.

EVERYTHING is considered St. Louis even if you drive out past the airport and are on your way to St. Charles people in Missouri call it St. Louis. Hell I've heard people say Six Flags St. Louis and it's in Eureka, which isn't anywhere near STL city limits.

But we can agree to disagree on STL. Enjoyed the games, except Sunday. My daughter had a ball living at the Fudge place in Union Station. I'll most definitely be back again, but I sure hope they do something with downtown.

[DawgieStyle]

I've been to STL before and without the kids, and I know that there is a Zoo, The Magic House, etc, etc, etc,. but you have to DRIVE to get everywhere and it's not like any of these places are right around the corner.

Yes, downtown in separated and my hotel was downtown, the games were in downtown and I full well expected to find things to do downtown.

But I'll be honest....STL will never make my list of top cities to visit for any reason except the MVC tournament or a Cubs/Cards baseball game.

EVERYTHING is considered St. Louis even if you drive out past the airport and are on your way to St. Charles people in Missouri call it St. Louis. Hell I've heard people say Six Flags St. Louis and it's in Eureka, which isn't anywhere near STL city limits.

But we can agree to disagree on STL. Enjoyed the games, except Sunday. My daughter had a ball living at the Fudge place in Union Station. I'll most definitely be back again, but I sure hope they do something with downtown.

just sounds like your spoiled by Chicago's downtown, and New York is similar. But most cities are like St. Louis where things are spread out like that and take some effort to get to.

I don't know what to tell ya, Wish you had a better time there, but I think if you expecting fun things to be all downtown, you are going to be disappointed by most cities, which is sad, because there are some very nice things to see if you are willing to put a little effort in going to see them.

Chicago is a great city, I agree, but it isn't the norm, and I'd hate for anyone to miss out on other great things because nothing can measure up to Chicago.

[Aegyptus]

EVERYTHING is considered St. Louis even if you drive out past the airport and are on your way to St. Charles people in Missouri call it St. Louis. Hell I've heard people say Six Flags St. Louis and it's in Eureka, which isn't anywhere near STL city limits.



Six Flags is in Saint Louis ... county.

Everything in Saint Louis County is pretty much considered Saint Louis (rightly or wrongly). Saint Louis city broke off as an independent city many moons ago (over 100 years ago right after the Civil War) because they considered the county to be dragging them down. Well, now the tables are turned, which is why Saint Louis is so spread out and there is a second city in Saint Louis, Clayton (foreground in photo, city in background) (http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c283/jeffvstl/downtownclayton.jpg), which is the county seat of Saint Louis county (Clayton has a new 40 story skyscraper proposed, by the way - it is a serious second city - people don't factor this in when the think about Saint Louis). Anyway, the city county split 100 years ago is what limits Saint Louis from expanding geographically and subsuming some of these smaller cities within the Metro. Most people also blame the city/county split for limiting Saint Louis in its competition with Chicago (79-80 years ago Saint Louis was the bigger city) and ultimately leading to its not keeping pace.

Chicago is 232 square miles
Indy is 372 square miles
Kansas City is 318 square miles
Wichita is 138 square miles
Omaha is 119 square miles

Saint Louis (city) is 66 square miles

[BearsCountry]

Too bad Scottrade isnt even the best arena in the state of Missouri anymore. Sprint Center blows it out of the water. Plus that whole area was designed for college basketball tournament really. Just watch the Big 12 tourny will get rave reviews this week. MVC missed the boat by not roatating between St. Louis and Kansas City IMO.

[DUBulldog]

Most people also blame the city/county split for limiting Saint Louis in its competition with Chicago (79-80 years ago Saint Louis was the bigger city)

At the risk of taking this way, way off topic, I've got to dispute that. 79-80 years ago would place us at approx 1930. According to Wikipedia, Chicago had 3,376,000+ in 1930, St Louis 821,000+. So, even back then, Chicago was 4 times as big as St Louis. It is surprising how much population St Louis has lost since then.

[Aegyptus]

At the risk of taking this way, way off topic, I've got to dispute that. 79-80 years ago would place us at approx 1930. According to Wikipedia, Chicago had 3,376,000+ in 1930, St Louis 821,000+. So, even back then, Chicago was 4 times as big as St Louis. It is surprising how much population St Louis has lost since then.

Good call. Looks like Chicago passed Saint Louis between 1870 (http://www.census.gov/population/documentation/twps0027/tab10.txt) and 1880 (http://www.census.gov/population/documentation/twps0027/tab11.txt) (pretty much the time of the city/county split by the way). During that decade, Chicago really took off increasing their population by three quarters. Saint Louis was just above stagnant during this period. Anyway, I thought it was later that Chicago overtook Saint Louis. I can't find stats on the metro populations at that time, just city populations. Not sure if that would change anything, though. The 1930's is when Saint Louis's population growth stopped (although it managed to stay in the top 10 until the 1960's). I am sure the depression affected other cities as well, but Saint Louis never really recovered ... and still hasn't fully. My apologies.

[BearsCountry]

Civil War was what caused Chicago to pass St. Louis. The railroad industry couldnt move through the area during the war, thus everything was moved north to Chicago.