Aces, time to jump?????

[Aces1982]

I love the MVC and the competition it brings. But, I have said this many times over. For UE, it is not a good fit. The reasons mentioned above is exactly why UE should have never left the MCC. We "owened" that conference and post season was seen quite often. In the MVC, not so much. Aces fans like to argue we can compete in this league but records and stats prove otherwise. The people that think we can compete just say so from their heart. Coming into the MVC, we were on our best run in our D1 history. So coming to a better conference with great prior seasons should have just put us over the top....well it didn't.

We have finished above 5th, in 14 yrs., ONE time. We have made the Semi-Finals in Stl, ONE time. Our conference tournament record is 4-14(2 wins coming in same year). I didn't look this up but in 14 yrs. we have probably won the fewest games in the tournament.

Here are the conference records for last 14 yrs.(counting Drake going to NCAA this year)

SIU 163-89 7 NCAA, 1 NIT
Creighton 158-94 7 NCAA, 3 NIT
MSU 149-103 1 NCAA, 5 NIT
Bradley 137-115 2 NCAA, 5 NIT
ISU(Red) 132-120 2 NCCA, 3 NIT
WSU 115-137 1 NCAA, 3 NIT
UNI 110-142 3 NCAA
UE 107-145 1 NCAA
ISU(Blue) 92-160 2 NCAA
Drake 88-164 1 NCAA
Tulsa 27-9 2 NCAA

Since we won the conferecne, we have the least amount of wins:
Since 2000:
SIU 122
CU 112
MSU 95
WSU 80
BU 78
UNI 77
ISU(red) 69
Drake 66
ISU(Blue) 57
UE 54

Not to mention our dismal appearences in STL. 14 years, 4 wins, not one other team has been that bad.

Also, we are the only team in last 9 yrs. not to play in post season play.

I would love to give Marty a chance, but I think to give him a chance we need to switch confernces. Otherwise, we are not being fair to him because it is a no win situation for him.

[BearsCountry]

It would hurt your program in the long run IMO. The Horizon would be a good fit and I'm sure they would love to have you but going to a lower conference in terms of exposure and NCAA bids would hurt the bottom line.

[Aces1982]

Because we are knocking down NCAA berths now??? FYI, the last 7 years we were in MCC we were in NCAA 3 times and NIT 2 times. One of the NCAA bids was an at large. In the MVC, after 14 years, we have 1 NCAA(an at large bid same amount at large bid in MVC as MCC).

[Mike]

Maybe there's hope. . . . .

From 1989-90 season through 2006-07 season (18 years), Drake had:
0 MVC regular season championships,
0 MVC tournament championships,
0 NCAA appearances, and
0 NIT appearances

[BearsCountry]

I can see why Aces fans liked Barry Hinson so well.

[Aces1982]

BTW, since BH got to MSU he has won the 3rd most confernce games and 3rd most post seasons...and in that same 14 year streatch since UE joining, MSU has the same amount of NCAA bids as UE.

[dogdays]

Dont forget one thing. Though I dont think the Valley is a good fit for them either this is the problem it seems to me. In the past 6 years the MVC has received I believe15 total NCAA bids....plus add games that our teams won during that time(which gives you one more share, each victory) and the revenue the ACES are receiving is in the neighborhood of 150 to 225 K per year from the NCAA...if the go to a league where its always one bid then the dollar figure would be more like 70 -90 k per year....thats a big difference for a school, any school but certainly for UE. It is certainly an issue, though if y ou were more competitive in a different league and had more wins, increased attendance would probably make up for the lost revenue from the NCAA.

[Aces1982]

Maybe there's hope. . . . .

From 1989-90 season through 2006-07 season (18 years), Drake had:
0 MVC regular season championships,
0 MVC tournament championships,
0 NCAA appearances, and
0 NIT appearances

Drake has had a fantastic year. They are a great story, but I do not see them as a future powerhouse in the MVC. I do not see them in the hunt for conf. championship year in and year out.

With UE, that is what we had in the MCC, I don't see us doing that in MVC(haven't done it in 14 years why now). That is why I am for the switch. I think Marty, given a chance, can turn us around to an extent. Maybe middle of the pack and every so often be at top...not what I am looking for....I want to be on top year in and year out like before, don't see it happening in the MVC.

[jb399]

I really think the Horizon is where UE belongs. You gotta love the Valley, but I think it is just a little too much for Evansville to chew. I think the in-state rivalry with Butler could easily be rebuilt. It hasn't been to long ago that the UW's were very very good. If only they could have gotten in there before Valpo. I doubt it would happen now.

Where else besides the Horizon would UE fit. The Summit just lost Valpo and they already have two other Indiana Schools, but they also have a pretty bad conference RPI. The highest seed anyone in the history of the conference has had in the NCAA's is 9th. Triva..... who was it??

They are in the SunBelt for some sports(I think?), but they already have 12 teams. They are at 15th in the rpi which isn't too bad and playing WKU would be nice thought.

Last, the Ohio Valley probably would be the best fit geographically, but they are well, really bad. 29th in the RPI.

I listed them in the order I would like to see, Horizon, Summit, SunBelt, Ohio Valley, what say you?

[Awesome]

Dear Evansville,

Men's basketball isn't the only sport which you play. Men's basketball isn't the only sport in which the Valley sponsors. Men's basketball isn't the only sport where you have a chance to reach the NCAA post-season. You are good in other sports. I seem to remember a Valley championship you won a few seasons ago. Don't leave. Take the money the top teams in basketball hand to you, and use in in whatever way you would like. That money won't exist in a smaller conference. Don't leave.

Awesome.

[Keita44]

Things are looking up for the Aces, so why would they leave? You have a lot of young talent returning next year and baring a disaster, there is a very good chance that you guys won't be playing in the play-in game next year.

The only reason you would move down is to avoid the challenge and play in a weak conference just to get the auto bid to the NCAA (and the 14-16 seed that goes along with it). Just doesn't make sense; it isn't good for the MVC, nor for Evansville.

[UE-BBALL#1]

Things have changed a lot since 15 years ago and the MCC. There is no reason for UE to drop conferences. People seem to be shortsighted and fail to realize that a drop in conference affiliation would result in a drop in the quality of players we bring in. It is not like the current team would be playing in the OVC. The fact is, every program has its downs. UE has certainly had their's over the last decade and a half. You guys fail to realize that the attendance drop by going to a conference such as the Horizon or OVC would dramatically effect the entire athletic program. You fail to realize the lost money on tv and revenue sharing would drastically cut into the budget of every sport at the university.

People who clamor for UE to move to the OVC or another small conference are small minded and fail to think out the overall consequences such a move would have on the athletic department as a whole. UE is better off being in the best conference they can and find a way to compete. It is not impossible, it just takes the right people in place to achieve it.

It doesn't really matter if you think a team like Drake is going to consistently be at the top of the MVC. I guarantee you that if you asked their fans if they would trade the last 20 years, including this season, for a couple of bids from 20 years of the Summit League, they would laugh in your face.

[E-Villan]

82,

You have brought this nonsense up before. I have no idea why you are so obsessed with the program going backwards. Why don't you call Tricia Cullop and tell her you don't see the program available to compete in the Valley.

Why don't you try to support ways to get us back to where we can compete instead of running from it.

[Aces1982]

Things are looking up for the Aces, so why would they leave? You have a lot of young talent returning next year and baring a disaster, there is a very good chance that you guys won't be playing in the play-in game next year.

The only reason you would move down is to avoid the challenge and play in a weak conference just to get the auto bid to the NCAA (and the 14-16 seed that goes along with it). Just doesn't make sense; it isn't good for the MVC, nor for Evansville.

We have never been a 14-16 seed. MCC, is Butler a 14-16 every year?? Again, would love to give Marty a chance, everyone knew coming into this season we would be bad. Next year, IMO, doesn't look much better. My guess is we will lose some players, either Hopf, Cousanard, Morrow(or go to academic scholarship) We are looking at Kyle Cassity and a couple of big guys yet we have no scholarships available after adding Denver Holmes and one other person that has an oral commitment therefor something must give. Look for one or two players not to come back if we can sign any of the guys we are looking at.

[goaces]

Things have changed a lot since 15 years ago and the MCC. There is no reason for UE to drop conferences. People seem to be shortsighted and fail to realize that a drop in conference affiliation would result in a drop in the quality of players we bring in. It is not like the current team would be playing in the OVC. The fact is, every program has its downs. UE has certainly had their's over the last decade and a half. You guys fail to realize that the attendance drop by going to a conference such as the Horizon or OVC would dramatically effect the entire athletic program. You fail to realize the lost money on tv and revenue sharing would drastically cut into the budget of every sport at the university.

People who clamor for UE to move to the OVC or another small conference are small minded and fail to think out the overall consequences such a move would have on the athletic department as a whole. UE is better off being in the best conference they can and find a way to compete. It is not impossible, it just takes the right people in place to achieve it.

It doesn't really matter if you think a team like Drake is going to consistently be at the top of the MVC. I guarantee you that if you asked their fans if they would trade the last 20 years, including this season, for a couple of bids from 20 years of the Summit League, they would laugh in your face.

I agree completely with your assessment. These same fans would rather Evansville join the Great Lakes Valley Conference if it meant winning a couple more games. UE is in a great league, WHICH IS A PLUS, NOT A NEGATIVE.

[Aces1982]

Things have changed a lot since 15 years ago and the MCC. There is no reason for UE to drop conferences. People seem to be shortsighted and fail to realize that a drop in conference affiliation would result in a drop in the quality of players we bring in. It is not like the current team would be playing in the OVC. The fact is, every program has its downs. UE has certainly had their's over the last decade and a half. You guys fail to realize that the attendance drop by going to a conference such as the Horizon or OVC would dramatically effect the entire athletic program. You fail to realize the lost money on tv and revenue sharing would drastically cut into the budget of every sport at the university.

People who clamor for UE to move to the OVC or another small conference are small minded and fail to think out the overall consequences such a move would have on the athletic department as a whole. UE is better off being in the best conference they can and find a way to compete. It is not impossible, it just takes the right people in place to achieve it.

It doesn't really matter if you think a team like Drake is going to consistently be at the top of the MVC. I guarantee you that if you asked their fans if they would trade the last 20 years, including this season, for a couple of bids from 20 years of the Summit League, they would laugh in your face.

You are right when we get our next NCAA bid 5 years from now that one year will be great. Will it be better then the last 7 years in the MCC when we got 3 bids, not even close.

[Aegyptus]

I would like to see UE and the city of Evansville push for a new stadium. I know there are a lot of Roberts lovers out there and I think it is still a viable facility, but I would just like to see some signs of life from UE and some support from the city. You hire a local assistant bank manager or something as an athletic director, hire a DII coach (I know he has ties, but still DII), low attendance, consistent losing seasons in basketball ... it is sort of depressing. I just want something I can hang my hat on and say, they may be down now but just wait until ... _________. Right now that is a blank for me. I don't see any game changers on the Horizon (no pun intended - okay maybe a little one). I think a new stadium like has been talked about would at least give reason to hope in the long term and Marty can do his best in the short term.

But, without the stadium, what is the reason to hope that things will get better? I mean comparing yourself to Drake is nice for morale's sake, but Drake was putting a lot of things in place for a while that finally all came together. Is Evansville doing that? What is the reason to think it is going to signifigantly improve to the point where you can compete for Valley championships.

I don't think Evansville should be going anywhere any time soon, but I do think they need to be able to answer those questions.

[Aces1982]

Fact: 14 years, one NCAA bid
Fact: 14 years, 3rd worst record in conference
Fact: since winning last championship, worst record in MVC
Fact: 14 years, worst MVC tournament record
Fact: Every team has now gone to post season in last 9 years but us..next couple years don't look much better
Fact: Our best attendence was when we were in MCC winning Championships and it is not even close
Fact: last 7 years in MCC, was in post season 5 of those years

Not one person can come here and say these are not accurate and that there are facts the other way saying we should stay.

14 years people...how long do you give it??

As far as other sports are concerned, basketball is the cash cow..therefore whatever is good for basketball is pretty much final.

There is nothing wrong with saying ok, we are over our head lets step back and reevaluate. It is called reality!!!

[Aces1982]

When we won MVC we avg. 8600 people(1998-99)...last year we won MCC we avg. 11,700(92-93)....attendence factor does not hold water.

[goaces]

1982 I know the losing has been difficult for you, as it has been for everyone else. I really don't have the desire to go over with you, once again, why I want UE to stay in the Valley. Aces fans who come to this site do not share your position, so you miight try to look elsewhere if you are looking for support.

[UE-BBALL#1]

Fact: 14 years, one NCAA bid
Fact: 14 years, 3rd worst record in conference
Fact: since winning last championship, worst record in MVC
Fact: 14 years, worst MVC tournament record
Fact: Every team has now gone to post season in last 9 years but us..next couple years don't look much better
Fact: Our best attendence was when we were in MCC winning Championships and it is not even close
Fact: last 7 years in MCC, was in post season 5 of those years

Not one person can come here and say these are not accurate and that there are facts the other way saying we should stay.

14 years people...how long do you give it??

As far as other sports are concerned, basketball is the cash cow..therefore whatever is good for basketball is pretty much final.

There is nothing wrong with saying ok, we are over our head lets step back and reevaluate. It is called reality!!!


Let's talk reality then. There is no way in hell UE would make more money in the Horizon or OVC than we do in the MVC. Even if we were winning in those leagues, it wouldn't happen. The MCC no longer exists. The Horizon is not the same as the MVC was. You are living 14 years ago. College basketball is a different game now. We are making more money as a bottom feeder in the MVC than we were as a top dog elsewhere. Obviously, the goal is to do better in the MVC and thus have more to put into our athletic budget. We have nothing to gain by dropping conferences.

[Aces1982]

Things have changed a lot since 15 years ago and the MCC. There is no reason for UE to drop conferences. People seem to be shortsighted and fail to realize that a drop in conference affiliation would result in a drop in the quality of players we bring in. It is not like the current team would be playing in the OVC. The fact is, every program has its downs. UE has certainly had their's over the last decade and a half. You guys fail to realize that the attendance drop by going to a conference such as the Horizon or OVC would dramatically effect the entire athletic program. You fail to realize the lost money on tv and revenue sharing would drastically cut into the budget of every sport at the university.

People who clamor for UE to move to the OVC or another small conference are small minded and fail to think out the overall consequences such a move would have on the athletic department as a whole. UE is better off being in the best conference they can and find a way to compete. It is not impossible, it just takes the right people in place to achieve it.

It doesn't really matter if you think a team like Drake is going to consistently be at the top of the MVC. I guarantee you that if you asked their fans if they would trade the last 20 years, including this season, for a couple of bids from 20 years of the Summit League, they would laugh in your face.

So you would think then that moving from MCC to MVC the quality of players would go up.....IT DIDN'T. The players we have gotten since joining the MVC are not any better then the players we got when in the MCC, and that is the problem!!!! Also, we got transfers in when in the MCC..why??..because they wanted to play for Championships year in and year out. What transfers will we get now?? Who would want to transfer to the bottom tier of the conference???

[jb399]

I'm an Aces fan and I'm starting to support his opinion. At some point you have got to step back and say you know what, maybe this is more than we can take.

[E-Villan]

You can construe your facts however you feel you want to make them. Just about every program in this league has had low periods as well. How long did WSU go? Drake? What kind of shape was Creighton in before Altman? SIU was awful prior to Weber. Indiana State has been crappy since 79.

Fact: We have averaged over 10K for mulitple seasons.
Fact: We have won league championships in every conference and level we have competed in.
Fact: We spent 8 years in this conference before we ever saw a play in round.
Fact: The other sports are very competitive in this conference.

I agree mens basketball is the cash cow...and I totally agree with the fact we need to get things turned around. But I do not agree that we can't get it done at this level.

You also have to get out of your head the MCC we competed well in is the same conference as the Horizon. It isn't. In fact, I believe the old MCC was as tough if not tougher than where we are at now. Xavier, Marquette, St. Louis, Dayton were good programs. Going back to the Horizon is not going back to that league. And if we could compete and regularly beat those programs, why can't we do the same in the Valley?

[Aces1982]

Let's talk reality then. There is no way in hell UE would make more money in the Horizon or OVC than we do in the MVC. Even if we were winning in those leagues, it wouldn't happen. The MCC no longer exists. The Horizon is not the same as the MVC was. You are living 14 years ago. College basketball is a different game now. We are making more money as a bottom feeder in the MVC than we were as a top dog elsewhere. Obviously, the goal is to do better in the MVC and thus have more to put into our athletic budget. We have nothing to gain by dropping conferences.

Ok, that is fine....say we should stay for the $$$$$. Don't come on here and say we should stay because we can compete when our 14 year history says otherwise. Will we win a Championship again, sure we will. But we can't do it on a consisitant basis like we were before.

[jb399]

I can almost see why Northwestern would stay in the BigTen. The money difference would be huge if they dropped down to the MVC. But how much more money is there really in the MVC over other mid-majors?

[Aces1982]

You can construe your facts however you feel you want to make them. Just about every program in this league has had low periods as well. How long did WSU go? Drake? What kind of shape was Creighton in before Altman? SIU was awful prior to Weber. Indiana State has been crappy since 79.

Fact: We have averaged over 10K for mulitple seasons.
Fact: We have won league championships in every conference and level we have competed in.
Fact: We spent 8 years in this conference before we ever saw a play in round.
Fact: The other sports are very competitive in this conference.

I agree mens basketball is the cash cow...and I totally agree with the fact we need to get things turned around. But I do not agree that we can't get it done at this level.

You also have to get out of your head the MCC we competed well in is the same conference as the Horizon. It isn't. In fact, I believe the old MCC was as tough if not tougher than where we are at now. Xavier, Marquette, St. Louis, Dayton were good programs. Going back to the Horizon is not going back to that league. And if we could compete and regularly beat those programs, why can't we do the same in the Valley?

Since join MVC, we avg over 10k....TWICE, two times in 14 yrs...Year we won 8500.

We spent 8 yrs before play in game...that is great all 8 years we were one and done.

Other sports would be compettitive in another conference also.

SIU before Weber they won 3 straight MVC Tournaments in mid 90's with Herrin.

ISU(Blue) has been to 2 NCAA's back to back in 2000 and 2001.

Give me some facts that we can compete in this conference instead of pride and the fact your ego would be hurt because we had to move to another conference. Fact is...there are none.

14 years of it and ONE time in 14 years we finished above 5th place. That is not competeing and if you think it is then you were not around in the 80's and early 90's.

[UE-BBALL#1]

Luckily, you don't get to make decisions. The basketball program cash cow helps fund other sports more in the MVC than it would elsewhere, competitive or not. Money talks.

[E-Villan]

So you would think then that moving from MCC to MVC the quality of players would go up.....IT DIDN'T. The players we have gotten since joining the MVC are not any better then the players we got when in the MCC, and that is the problem!!!! Also, we got transfers in when in the MCC..why??..because they wanted to play for Championships year in and year out. What transfers will we get now?? Who would want to transfer to the bottom tier of the conference???


Again, we did not take this giant step forward when we switched conferences. The MCC was good. In fact, we probably had a recruiting advantage because we were getting exposure in good markets. Yes, the Horizon is still in many of those markets, but it is a rung lower. UW Milwaukee doesnt get the press Marquette does, Wright St versus Dayton, etc..

[UE-BBALL#1]

$50 bucks says the first time UE won the regular season OVC championship but lost in the conference tournament and didn't get a bid, you would cry your eyes out about how UE needs to be in a better conference so we can get in the big dance regardless.

[Aces1982]

$50 bucks says the first time UE won the regular season OVC championship but lost in the conference tournament and didn't get a bid, you would cry your eyes out about how UE needs to be in a better conference so we can get in the big dance regardless.

I never said OVC...I would prefer Horizon. And your other statement is just stupid.

[Mike]

Is Evansville at a decided size disadvantage? I always figures that the private, more academic members of the MVC (i.e. Bradley, Creighton, Drake and Evansville) were all about the same size.
I was looking at the 2008 MVC Tournament press guide and was surprised to see that it showed Bradley with and enrollment of 6,154, Creighton with 6,981, Drake with 5,617 amd Evansville with 2,437. According to that source, Illinois State, Missouri State and Southern Illinois all have over 20,000students. That's a wide disparity. I am assuming that these numbers include graduate students who would not be eligible to participate in sports.
A couple of years ago, Drake had less than 3,000 full time undergraduate students and Creighton had less than 4,000. They both have a lot of graduate students.
Is Evansville too small to compete in the MVC or should they try to figure out how the other 3 private schools do it?

[UE-BBALL#1]

Is Evansville at a decided size disadvantage? I always figures that the private, more academic members of the MVC (i.e. Bradley, Creighton, Drake and Evansville) were all about the same size.
I was looking at the 2008 MVC Tournament press guide and was surprised to see that it showed Bradley with and enrollment of 6,154, Creighton with 6,981, Drake with 5,617 amd Evansville with 2,437. According to that source, Illinois State, Missouri State and Southern Illinois all have over 20,000students. That's a wide disparity. I am assuming that these numbers include graduate students who would not be eligible to participate in sports.
A couple of years ago, Drake had less than 3,000 full time undergraduate students and Creighton had less than 4,000. They both have a lot of graduate students.
Is Evansville too small to compete in the MVC or should they try to figure out how the other 3 private schools do it?

I don't see enrollment as a huge issue in college. Every school has the same number of scholarships and athletes are recruited, so it differs from high school in that respect. Obviously more students can mean more facilities and such, but the costs are also higher so I'm not sure it has a large of an impact.

[Aces1982]

Luckily, you don't get to make decisions. The basketball program cash cow helps fund other sports more in the MVC than it would elsewhere, competitive or not. Money talks.

Again, that is fine if that is the reason we are staying. Say that don't sit here and tell me though we should stay cause we can compete. Those 14 years were a fluke.

I didn't know you all had a break down of the budget and what we making compared to what we could make in another conference.

[UE-BBALL#1]

I never said OVC...I would prefer Horizon. And your other statement is just stupid.

Ah yes, funny how statements you disagree with must be stupid.

[UE-BBALL#1]

Again, that is fine if that is the reason we are staying. Say that don't sit here and tell me though we should stay cause we can compete. Those 14 years were a fluke.

I didn't know you all had a break down of the budget and what we making compared to what we could make in another conference.

Now you know.:aces:

[E-Villan]

Yes, I was around plenty during that time and many years before. I know we were competing then and we were competing against strong programs. That is not what you are wanting.

That atmosphere was against those types of programs. Beating up on IUPUFW will not restore that.

[Aces1982]

Ah yes, funny how statements you disagree with must be stupid.

It was a stupid statement. It was not a fact. Give me some facts like I have given you. You can't do it. You go on faith, hope, and pride. I go on facts, of why we can't compete and have not done so in 14 years.

[UE-BBALL#1]

Simply put, I along with many others, feel UE can compete in the MVC. I think that UE is a good coach and a couple of good scorers away from being able to compete at the top of this conference. Whether Marty Simmons is that coach or guys like Lacy, Hopf, PVT, Denver Holmes, etc. can develop into those players, I do not know. However, with the right guy in charge the chances of landing the next AJ Graves is a distinct possibility.

For those who don't think UE can compete, then find your solace in the fact that the money from the basketball program still makes being in the MVC the right move in terms of the health of the entire athletic department. Become a fan of the women's basketball team that just tied for the conference title, that way you can get your wins.

[Aces1982]

Yes, I was around plenty during that time and many years before. I know we were competing then and we were competing against strong programs. That is not what you are wanting.

That atmosphere was against those types of programs. Beating up on IUPUFW will not restore that.

You mean back in the day, not early 80's, Loyola, Detroit and Butler were all good?? You might have a short memory. You mentioned Marq., it was not the Marq. we know today, you mentioned Dayton, they were good but not like the Dayton of now. St. Louis was good but not great. Duquesne and LaSalle were not good and did not stay but a couple of years. Xavier was very good but even they weren't as good as they are now.

And the MCC(Horizon) is not as good as it once was...but it is good enough for us.

[UE-BBALL#1]

And the MCC(Horizon) is not as good as it once was...but it is good enough for us.

Based on what? This is not a fact. It must be stupid.

[E-Villan]

You know 82, maybe it would be interesting to see WHY you feel we can't compete in the Valley? Not your book of facts, but why you see this to be impossible.

I think there are basic things you need to be on a level playing field with the other members of your peer group.

Facilities
Administration
Athletic Administration
Coaching
Resources

After that, it is pretty much up to those people to get a competitive program on the floor. I think recruiting is basically driven by your conference and exposure. If you are in the OVC, you are going to get OVC caliber players.

[E-Villan]

And the MCC(Horizon) is not as good as it once was...but it is good enough for us.

You actually even remotely consider yourself a fan??????

[Aces1982]

I will have no problem, if we got 3 post season bids in say 6 years that I was wrong. But how many more years, if we don't compete, will you say enough is enough? Another 14 years like the first 14 years?

I just think we need to win some Championships and I am afraid the administration, if we wait to long and lose another 40% attendence will say time for Division II. AND I DO NOT WANT THAT. LET ME REPEAT I DO NOT WANT THAT. But if we show them we can win, if in the right conference then they won't talk about DII again. I have heard, just rumors, that this is it. Marty is the last shot. And I think before that happens we need to show that we can win and do so in another conference.

[E-Villan]

While you are contemplating your reasons why we won't ever be able to compete in the Valley, let me ask you one other thing.

You seem to be basing your arguments and desire to downgrade solely on NCAA appearances. How are the NCAA qualifiers determined from all of these lower conferences that we would automatically run the table in?

I believe the answer would be the conference tournament. Now you know that anything can happen in these tournaments. In the Valley, you put together a solid season (unless your Barry Hinson) and at least show up for the tournament and you have a chance at an at large bid. Go to a one bid league and you are assured of having to win the tournament to get in. Anything less and you are looking in. Doesn't seem like all that favorable odds.

I can't wait to see the excitement of the fans by winning all these regular season games and then getting upset in the first round of a conference tournament by Arkansas-Pine Bluff at Blytheville. 24-5 and sitting home is not going to create what we need.

[Aces1982]

You know 82, maybe it would be interesting to see WHY you feel we can't compete in the Valley? Not your book of facts, but why you see this to be impossible.

I think there are basic things you need to be on a level playing field with the other members of your peer group.

Facilities
Administration
Athletic Administration
Coaching
Resources

After that, it is pretty much up to those people to get a competitive program on the floor. I think recruiting is basically driven by your conference and exposure. If you are in the OVC, you are going to get OVC caliber players.

Because 14 years of history says otherwise.

If in baseball, someone had a career(14 years) batting avg of .220, why would you think all of a sudden he was going to hit .300 over the next 5 years? You go on history and history says in the MVC we can not compete.

You tell me why you think we can compete?? I have given you facts to back me up? What facts backs your stance up?

Part of our success in those 7 years of MCC was tranfers, what D I transfers have we got since joining the MVC?? Why would they come here in the first place?? Why would they come before, my guess is to win Championships.

Try to put this as tactfull as I can...MVC is full of athletes who are African American. UE never has been strong at that area. Part of it is because the UE campus and Evansville in general does not have things in common with African Americans. It was funny you mentioned AJ Graves, why him?

Recruiting has not been stepped up by the switching conferences. We are still getting 2 star recruits, that would be good enough in Horizon, but not in MVC. We need 3 star recruits. Not saying all those pan out and live up to expectation and sometimes you find a diamond in the rough(Hollsinger).

You go to STL for the tournament, and those fans are passionate about their teams. I would want to go to those schools, fans standing and clapping, a student section. Try standing at a UE game, the old guy behind you will tell you to sit down.

As a whole from the University to the city we are not on the same level as the MVC.

Those along with the facts that I have stated is why I think we can't compete and won't compete year in and year out.

[UE-BBALL#1]

I mentioned AJ Graves because any time Butler plays they talk about how he is a kid from the middle of no where Indiana who didn't get recruited by the big schools and went to Butler for a good education. Don't try to paint me as bringing race into anything. Assumptions like that make you lose any credibility and respect I have for your opinions.

[Aces1982]

While you are contemplating your reasons why we won't ever be able to compete in the Valley, let me ask you one other thing.

You seem to be basing your arguments and desire to downgrade solely on NCAA appearances. How are the NCAA qualifiers determined from all of these lower conferences that we would automatically run the table in?

I believe the answer would be the conference tournament. Now you know that anything can happen in these tournaments. In the Valley, you put together a solid season (unless your Barry Hinson) and at least show up for the tournament and you have a chance at an at large bid. Go to a one bid league and you are assured of having to win the tournament to get in. Anything less and you are looking in. Doesn't seem like all that favorable odds.

I can't wait to see the excitement of the fans by winning all these regular season games and then getting upset in the first round of a conference tournament by Arkansas-Pine Bluff at Blytheville. 24-5 and sitting home is not going to create what we need.

Horizon had 2 bids last year and in 2003.

[howboutdembears]

You guys should have hired Barry Hinson when he applied for your job... He's so great from what all of you say, he'd have you to the top in no time...

Again, why didn't you guys hire him if he was so great?

[Aces1982]

I mentioned AJ Graves because any time Butler plays they talk about how he is a kid from the middle of no where Indiana who didn't get recruited by the big schools and went to Butler for a good education. Don't try to paint me as bringing race into anything. Assumptions like that make you lose any credibility and respect I have for your opinions.

Not saying anything about racist. I was pointing out that is the type of player we look for. I was not claiming you were....it is a touchy subject and I am sorry if you took it that way...but I was just saying those are the type of players UE and the city come to expect and see.

[Aces1982]

You guys should have hired Barry Hinson when he applied for your job... He's so great from what all of you say, he'd have you to the top in no time...

Again, why didn't you guys hire him if he was so great?

Not on the board, but I would have looked at him. But I believe they wanted to try to get back to the roots of UE and had ties. Marty was the logical choice.

[Aces1982]

Horizon had 2 bids last year and in 2003.

Horizon also had 3 bids in 98.

[NewEra]

While you are contemplating your reasons why we won't ever be able to compete in the Valley, let me ask you one other thing.

You seem to be basing your arguments and desire to downgrade solely on NCAA appearances. How are the NCAA qualifiers determined from all of these lower conferences that we would automatically run the table in?

I believe the answer would be the conference tournament. Now you know that anything can happen in these tournaments. In the Valley, you put together a solid season (unless your Barry Hinson) and at least show up for the tournament and you have a chance at an at large bid. Go to a one bid league and you are assured of having to win the tournament to get in. Anything less and you are looking in. Doesn't seem like all that favorable odds.

I can't wait to see the excitement of the fans by winning all these regular season games and then getting upset in the first round of a conference tournament by Arkansas-Pine Bluff at Blytheville. 24-5 and sitting home is not going to create what we need.

No NCAA but a bid to NIT guaranteed by winning regular season conference.:grin:

[Aegyptus]

I don't see enrollment as a huge issue in college. Every school has the same number of scholarships and athletes are recruited, so it differs from high school in that respect. Obviously more students can mean more facilities and such, but the costs are also higher so I'm not sure it has a large of an impact.

I agree, but enrollment does affect your marketability. Good or bad, it is not like the MVC teams make headlines on their own. Someone has to be there to read the headline or to go to the game. When you only graduate 700 students a year, it is not like you are continually feeding a ready-made market. On top of that USI is pumping out triple the number of students that you are right now ... and they are planning to go to 20,000 students!

What concerns me the most is not that you are a school of 2,500, but that you act like a small school. Your marketing needs to be not as a small private liberal arts school, but as a major university in a small package. You have to say we are better than USI because ...

I just don't know if southern Indiana sees Evansville as a big player? And, if you can't even dominate your own city, how can you be expected to grow? When all the Valley teams go to $700,000 for their coaches ... what is Evansville going to do? Where is the money coming from?

[Hein72]

Would you rather have your team make the NCAA tourney 3 out of 7 years as a 15 or 16 seed and be looking at almost a sure bounce or make it once in 10 and have a 4-7 seed and have a solid shot at a sweet 16. I think Drake would chose the latter and from experience I would tell you I would.

Honestly I think this conference is on the verge of something special. Almost every team has some very good young talent, including Evansville, the other conferences that are looking good this year are senior led and rely heavily on upperclassman. I think in 5 years or so the MVC will be a solidified as the 7th best conference every year and that will give you opportunities that you wouldn't have elsewhere.

Another thing I think you underestimate is if you were in a smaller conference there would be no at-large possibilities. Look at Robbert Morris they win their last 26 games or something before losing in the conference tourney championship and now have completely no NCAA hopes.

:valley:

[AceGargantua]

Any Aces fan who thinks UE should jump to a weaker conference needs to jump to a weaker conference themselves. Go be a Murray State fan. Give Marty more than a season to turn things around before you start whining uncle.

:aces:

[goaces]

If yearly championships is what you desire 1982 then why not go back to the division II level and form another ICC league?

[Aces1982]

Would you rather have your team make the NCAA tourney 3 out of 7 years as a 15 or 16 seed and be looking at almost a sure bounce or make it once in 10 and have a 4-7 seed and have a solid shot at a sweet 16. I think Drake would chose the latter and from experience I would tell you I would.

Honestly I think this conference is on the verge of something special. Almost every team has some very good young talent, including Evansville, the other conferences that are looking good this year are senior led and rely heavily on upperclassman. I think in 5 years or so the MVC will be a solidified as the 7th best conference every year and that will give you opportunities that you wouldn't have elsewhere.

Another thing I think you underestimate is if you were in a smaller conference there would be no at-large possibilities. Look at Robbert Morris they win their last 26 games or something before losing in the conference tourney championship and now have completely no NCAA hopes.

:valley:


Horizon leagur bids are not 15-16 seeds. We were at large in MCC and were 11 I believe. Won the conference tournament and we were 9 or 8 seed. Again Horizon has had 2 bids last year ans 2 bids few years ago and 3 bids in 98. I am not talking about going to the MEAC or Patriot. The Horizon is a good league that does get multiple bids from time to time. They are just a notch below the MVC and would give us the best chance to compete for Championships year in and year out.

[E-Villan]

Horizon leagur bids are not 15-16 seeds. We were at large in MCC and were 11 I believe. Won the conference tournament and we were 9 or 8 seed.



Again...The MCC is NOT the Horizon.:banghead:

[Aces1982]

Any Aces fan who thinks UE should jump to a weaker conference needs to jump to a weaker conference themselves. Go be a Murray State fan. Give Marty more than a season to turn things around before you start whining uncle.

:aces:

I have said this for a couple of years. Gave Crews a shot and Merfeld how many more years do you want to go through this? Is 14 years not enough!!!!

You guys must not read all the post.....NO ONE can give me a valid reason except money as to why we should stay. If UE goes DII I will not be there to watch. That is one reason we need to get out before the Admin. tells us we can't win, give us a shot at Horizon and I will show you championships and post season play.....or we can stay 14 more years in the Valley and wait for that ONE magical season Then it will all be worth it.

[Aces1982]

Again...The MCC is NOT the Horizon.:banghead:

Really some reason it says we are a former member from 1979-1994. The name has changed and schools have come and gone....thatis the better fit for us then the MVC.

[AceFan]

The Aces should stay in the MVC!

We have a new coach who followed a coach that made many recruiting mistakes as evidenced by players who signed and didn't show up, who got in trouble and were tossed off the team, or who left......Dewayne Lee, Tori Robertson, Wacy Hall, Fabian Calvez, Dupree Fletcher, Marcus Butler, Robert Nelson, J.D. Christie. That's why the Aces had only one senior this year and he was a JUCO transfer. In my opinion, the previous coach and staff did a poor job developing players. Many of the players that completed their eligibility left the program playing at about the same level they started.

Give the new coach a couple years to recruit some talent and develop the players he recruits. Have you noticed that vanHoose has not been on the bench the past couple games? I expect there will be a couple of players from this year's team that will not be back next year. The Aces have already signed Denver Holmes and C.J. Erickson. They continue to recruit and expect to sign one or two more players during the Spring signing period. Two kids were visiting at the last home game vs UNI. I believe they are recruiting kids who are mentally tough and want to play defense as well as recruiting kids with scoring ability. We also have Zach House who redshirted and has gained 20 pounds since he arrived on campus.

I just want the team to be competitive......and that doesn't mean winning the conference championship every year. To me, being competitive means having a chance to win in the last five minutes of the game. Sure, I want to win the conference, but so does SIU, Creighton, Bradley, ISU(Red), WSU, Drake, UNI, ISU(Blue) & MSU. All these Universities have good tradition and all have the expectation to win.

[Aces1982]

You guys are right...I love having the worst MVC tournament record in 14 years(4 wins), I love finishing above 5th one time in 14 years, I love having the third worst conference record in 14 years, I love having the worst conference record the last 9 years, I love going to one post season tournament in 14 years, I love when people on Valleytalk make fun of us....it will all turn around in time, just like it did with Merfeld(I am sure most people on here said give him a chance he will turn it around)....here's to the 2015 MVC Champs...Can't wait!!!!!!!!!

[howboutdembears]

The Aces should stay in the MVC!

We have a new coach who followed a coach that made many recruiting mistakes as evidenced by players who signed and didn't show up, who got in trouble and were tossed off the team, or who left......


and thats a problem? My god, Barry has lost 10 guys in the last 4-5 years easily to not showing up, leaving for grades etc...

oh, but everyone thought he was the best coach ever and we should keep him around... you guys shouldn't have changed coaches either.

[AceGargantua]

Simmons hasn't even had a full year yet, and I think he can get it done in the MVC. Otherwise, I think all of this talk about moving conferences is silly and irrelevant.

[Aces1982]

Simmons hasn't even had a full year yet, and I think he can get it done in the MVC. Otherwise, I think all of this talk about moving conferences is silly and irrelevant.

The deck is stacked against him bigtime!!!! Raise your hand if you thought Merfeld was the answer also!!!!!!!!!!!!

[UE-BBALL#1]

and thats a problem? My god, Barry has lost 10 guys in the last 4-5 years easily to not showing up, leaving for grades etc...

oh, but everyone thought he was the best coach ever and we should keep him around... you guys shouldn't have changed coaches either.

Am I missing something?

[Mc Bulldog]

I read the first 5-6 posts in this thread and not reading anymore. I certainly think everyone has the right to their opinions but this kind of talk is absurd. Simmons looks to be a very good coach. Chill out. :aces:

[MSU Bleeds Maroon]

Aces1982, I gotta hand it to you.

Every year, around this time, the "expansion" topic rears its ugly head, as it's done yet again. And that topic always brings with it the question of "gosh, should we kick somebody out?"

If the kick-someone-out topic were left to itself, pointy-headed morons from several different fanbases would start crying about how Evansville just drags the conference down. A decade ago, the cry was to eject Indiana State and Wichita; then it was Northern Iowa and Drake; and now it's the Aces' turn on the hot seat. It's a ridiculous argument, but there are plenty of people around here who crave ridiculous arguments.

But you, sir... you've turned the whole thing on its head. By advocating the withdrawal of your own school, you've flummoxed the whole herd of mouth-breathing bullies. They can't pile onto your argument, so you don't have to deal with them. At the same time, your fellow Aces fans are rallying to the defense of dear Alma Mater, as you must have known they would.

I commend you, Aces1982, for foiling the would-be detractors and malcontents. It's a masterful plan, executed perfectly. Bravo!

[Aces1982]

I read the first 5-6 posts in this thread and not reading anymore. I certainly think everyone has the right to their opinions but this kind of talk is absurd. Simmons looks to be a very good coach. Chill out. :aces:

Nobody said he wasn't a good coach...this is not a knock on SImmons at all. It is a knock on the University, when 14 years ago they thought lets go to MVC. When we were in enjoying our finest run in D I. So we jump and hover around the middle of the pack then we win a Championship and then the bottom falls out. And we are stuck at the bottom of the conference. I would guarantee had we stayed put we would have more then 1 post season the last 14 years. Now it is time to go back and re-think this and try to get back in the Horizon League were we can once again win Championships and play in the post season.

This has nothing to do with being a true fan,(there probably isn't one fan on here that has been to as many games as I have--home, road, or tournament) this has to do with wanting to see the school win. Not be stuck where it is.

I just dfon't see the big deal in changing conferences, why it would hurt some of you so much.

[jb399]

What concerns me the most is not that you are a school of 2,500, but that you act like a small school. Your marketing needs to be not as a small private liberal arts school, but as a major university in a small package. You have to say we are better than USI because ...


How do you know this? There are people at UE this year from about 30 different states. After Indiana and Kentucky, the state of Texas has the most students currently at UE. There are also many students from the Chicago area and the mid-atlantic. UE is far from a private USI. We draw our students from a wide range.

Also, back to the question I've already posed once. How big of a difference if there from competing in the MVC compared to say the Horizon?

[AceFan]

Now it is time to go back and re-think this and try to get back in the Horizon League were we can once again win Championships and play in the post season.



Butler won the Horizon League this year with a 16-2 record. Valparaiso finished in the middle of the pack with a 9-9 record. The Aces played both Butler and Valparaiso during the season and lost to both. If we were in the Horizon League this past season we would not have competed for the championship. We would have to improve at this point in time to be competitive in the Horizon League.

[AceFan]

I love the MVC and the competition it brings. But, I have said this many times over. For UE, it is not a good fit. The reasons mentioned above is exactly why UE should have never left the MCC. We "owened" that conference and post season was seen quite often. In the MVC, not so much. Aces fans like to argue we can compete in this league but records and stats prove otherwise. The people that think we can compete just say so from their heart. Coming into the MVC, we were on our best run in our D1 history. So coming to a better conference with great prior seasons should have just put us over the top....well it didn't.

We have finished above 5th, in 14 yrs., ONE time. We have made the Semi-Finals in Stl, ONE time. Our conference tournament record is 4-14(2 wins coming in same year). I didn't look this up but in 14 yrs. we have probably won the fewest games in the tournament.

Here are the conference records for last 14 yrs.(counting Drake going to NCAA this year)

SIU 163-89 7 NCAA, 1 NIT
Creighton 158-94 7 NCAA, 3 NIT
MSU 149-103 1 NCAA, 5 NIT
Bradley 137-115 2 NCAA, 5 NIT
ISU(Red) 132-120 2 NCCA, 3 NIT
WSU 115-137 1 NCAA, 3 NIT
UNI 110-142 3 NCAA
UE 107-145 1 NCAA
ISU(Blue) 92-160 2 NCAA
Drake 88-164 1 NCAA
Tulsa 27-9 2 NCAA

Since we won the conferecne, we have the least amount of wins:
Since 2000:
SIU 122
CU 112
MSU 95
WSU 80
BU 78
UNI 77
ISU(red) 69
Drake 66
ISU(Blue) 57
UE 54

Not to mention our dismal appearences in STL. 14 years, 4 wins, not one other team has been that bad.

Also, we are the only team in last 9 yrs. not to play in post season play.

I would love to give Marty a chance, but I think to give him a chance we need to switch confernces. Otherwise, we are not being fair to him because it is a no win situation for him.

Aces1982: There was a poster on here a few months ago who had opinions very similar to you. He/she posted using the name yeager. Haven't seen anything posted by yeager lately. You and yeager should get together and discuss this issue.

[Aces1982]

Aces1982: There was a poster on here a few months ago who had opinions very similar to you. He/she posted using the name yeager. Haven't seen anything posted by yeager lately. You and yeager should get together and discuss this issue.

Glad to hear there is another person that researches information and states facts. Sometimes people don't want to believe things unless they see it in writing.

Take a look at those facts again and ask yourself, is our program better the last 14 years, (W-L, Conference Championships, Tournament Championships, Post season appearances, and attendance) then it was the first 16 years of being D I??

The answer, if looked upon objectivley, isn't even close.

[Purple&Orange]

Look, Evansville has struggled for most of this decade and all Aces fans are frustrated with the results. Changing conferences is far from the answer. If that was the quick fix, conferences would be losing teams all the time and the OVC would have 30 or so teams from the midwest. Getting to the NCAA Tournament is a great goal but I don't UE to be a sacrificial lamb for some BCS school to devour on their way to the 2nd round.

Although men's basketball is the face of the Valley, UE can and has competed at a high level in other sports. I'm proud to say that I'm a fan of a Valley team and have come to embrace this conference as my own. Would Drake be the story of the year in college hoops if the felt they couldn't cut it in The Valley and dropped to the Summit League?

[Aces1982]

Ok, I give no more post on this subject. Lets stay in the Valley and wait for that one magical season.

Go Aces!!!!
Go Valley!!!

[Aegyptus]

Look, Evansville has struggled for most of this decade and all Aces fans are frustrated with the results. Changing conferences is far from the answer. If that was the quick fix, conferences would be losing teams all the time and the OVC would have 30 or so teams from the midwest. Getting to the NCAA Tournament is a great goal but I don't UE to be a sacrificial lamb for some BCS school to devour on their way to the 2nd round.

Although men's basketball is the face of the Valley, UE can and has competed at a high level in other sports. I'm proud to say that I'm a fan of a Valley team and have come to embrace this conference as my own. Would Drake be the story of the year in college hoops if the felt they couldn't cut it in The Valley and dropped to the Summit League?

This is the fan that Evansville needs (sorry to label you that way P&O). You need people in Evansville to understand what they have there. They have a school in an elite conference that brings great teams to town all the time ... and from time to time an NBA caliber player. But, then they also need to realize that the only way for the team to get better is for the fan support to get better. Marty can work his butt off, but if the fans don't start showing up for games, it is worthless. Everyone would love for the Drake scenario to happen for Evansville, but likely it will not. You need fans to get excited if you fight for a 5th place finish next year. A little better each year, but that is only possible if you have smart fans in Evansville that realize what they have and that improvements are being made. Because you have so few graduates, you need to market the team to the community aggressively. But, lack of tuition dollars may prohibit that. This is where your businessman AD should step in and get corporate sponsorship to help out. If the People's State Bank makes a commercial, why not do it in Roberts? I don't know, I am just saying that the solution here is not the players or the coach, it is the city. You need to bring back the city. If the city was there and aggressively supported the team, everyone would get excited, the players would play harder, Marty would get better recruits, there would be more money for various things ... anyway, all of that is possible once the city re-embraces the Aces as THEIR TEAM and representative of the region and gets behind them 100%. Just from afar, it doesn't look like the city is 100% behind the team at this point.

[UE-BBALL#1]

How do you know this? There are people at UE this year from about 30 different states. After Indiana and Kentucky, the state of Texas has the most students currently at UE. There are also many students from the Chicago area and the mid-atlantic. UE is far from a private USI. We draw our students from a wide range.

Also, back to the question I've already posed once. How big of a difference if there from competing in the MVC compared to say the Horizon?

On a yearly basis, the MVC gets about double the NCAA revenue distribution that the Horizon League gets. The MVC gets 4 times as much as the Sun Belt or the Ohio Valley.

[jb399]

Are these numbers somewhere I can take a look at?

[jb399]

Nevermind, I found the 2004 numbers.

My next question is does each memember of the said conference get the same amount?

Sorry, I'm learning here, bear with me

[UE-BBALL#1]

http://www1.ncaa.org/finance/5-yr_conf_summaries/basketball

This has the last 5 seasons.

[jb399]

I basically want to know what the bottom line figure is UE gets from being in the MVC. How much of the $4+ mil does the conference keep for themselves. Also, this may sound stupid, but does each school have to pay some sort of a membership due to the MVC?

[Aces101]

The Aces have 1 scholarship to offer.....to fill the spot vacated by Victor Gomez. Do not read too much into the fact that 2 recruits were at the last home game. The Aces are probably hoping that 1 of those 2 accept an offer. I did notice that one of the recruits was wearing a Henderson County team warmup.

The Aces would make a dumb move if they moved out of the MVC. A drop down to a lower midmajor conference would decrease community interest even more. No one will go to the stadium to watch the Aces play Jacksonville State, Eastern KY, Tennessee Tech, etc in the OVC. Additionally, outside of Butler and Valpo, noone would care about watching Cleveland St, Wright St, UW-Milwaukee, etc. The Valley has the more storied programs and history. Give the current coaches, players, and administration 3-4 more years to turn it around.

Men's basketball may be the cash cow at UE, but do not forget that the other sports are also becoming more competitive at this level. Baseball, men's and women's soccer, and women's basketball are becoming a real threat to win the MVC. The swim team and tennis team are also showing improvement.

All it takes is one 'magical' year to turn a program around. 1 great year = recruits = winning = money for the program. Come on Aces, let's pull a 'Drake"

[Aces1982]

The Aces have 1 scholarship to offer.....to fill the spot vacated by Victor Gomez. Do not read too much into the fact that 2 recruits were at the last home game. The Aces are probably hoping that 1 of those 2 accept an offer. I did notice that one of the recruits was wearing a Henderson County team warmup.

The Aces would make a dumb move if they moved out of the MVC. A drop down to a lower midmajor conference would decrease community interest even more. No one will go to the stadium to watch the Aces play Jacksonville State, Eastern KY, Tennessee Tech, etc in the OVC. Additionally, outside of Butler and Valpo, noone would care about watching Cleveland St, Wright St, UW-Milwaukee, etc. The Valley has the more storied programs and history. Give the current coaches, players, and administration 3-4 more years to turn it around.

Men's basketball may be the cash cow at UE, but do not forget that the other sports are also becoming more competitive at this level. Baseball, men's and women's soccer, and women's basketball are becoming a real threat to win the MVC. The swim team and tennis team are also showing improvement.

All it takes is one 'magical' year to turn a program around. 1 great year = recruits = winning = money for the program. Come on Aces, let's pull a 'Drake"

I am pretty sure they have 2 scholarships to offer and have offered 2. The have 2 verbals, I don't believe no one has signed yet. Don't be suprised if you do not see some players come back next year.

People will show up if UE is winning consistantly. Again, MVC Champs in 1999 avg crowd 8500. MCC Champs in 1993 avg crowd 11,740. In 1990, we finished 5th in MCC and avg. more(9600) then win we won the MVC.

Please go back and do some research before coming on here and saying things that are not true. Look the numbers up.

[UE-BBALL#1]

I am pretty sure they have 2 scholarships to offer and have offered 2. The have 2 verbals, I don't believe no one has signed yet. Don't be suprised if you do not see some players come back next year.

People will show up if UE is winning consistantly. Again, MVC Champs in 1999 avg crowd 8500. MCC Champs in 1993 avg crowd 11,740. In 1990, we finished 5th in MCC and avg. more(9600) then win we won the MVC.

Please go back and do some research before coming on here and saying things that are not true. Look the numbers up.

You are delusional if you continue to ignore the fact that college basketball as a whole has changed in the last 15 years. You seem to imply with your 'facts' that if UE were to win the Horizon we would average well over 10,000. Your use of facts to say finishing 5th in the MCC (which no longer exists but that you continue to call the Horizon) will draw better than winning the MVC is laughable.

[UE-BBALL#1]

I basically want to know what the bottom line figure is UE gets from being in the MVC. How much of the $4+ mil does the conference keep for themselves. Also, this may sound stupid, but does each school have to pay some sort of a membership due to the MVC?

I can't find anything officially to state this. I have seen it discussed on this board before and I believe the way it works is that every team in the conference gets one share, with the teams who are in the tournament receiving an additional share, and an additional share for each NCAA win.

[Aces1982]

You are delusional if you continue to ignore the fact that college basketball as a whole has changed in the last 15 years. You seem to imply with your 'facts' that if UE were to win the Horizon we would average well over 10,000. Your use of facts to say finishing 5th in the MCC (which no longer exists but that you continue to call the Horizon) will draw better than winning the MVC is laughable.

I call it the MCC, because that's what it was called. It is now called the Horizon. If we won the Horizon, we would not avg. 10,000, but if we kept winning the next couple years and sprinkle in some local players then yes, we would avg. 10k.

Yes basketball has changed, along with the Valley. The Valley of old is a conference were UE may have fit in. The "new" Valley is no longer a good fit. Quite frankly, it has got be to big for UE. From the fans, student section, band, dance team and media.

Is the program better off the last 14 years then it was the first 16?

The last 14 we have had 1 post season play and 4 wins in conference tournament and 1 finish above 5th place. The first 16, too many positives to count not to mention 6 post seasons.

I am sorry, I said I would not reply any more.

[AceFan]

I am pretty sure they have 2 scholarships to offer and have offered 2. The have 2 verbals, I don't believe no one has signed yet. Don't be suprised if you do not see some players come back next year.

People will show up if UE is winning consistantly. Again, MVC Champs in 1999 avg crowd 8500. MCC Champs in 1993 avg crowd 11,740. In 1990, we finished 5th in MCC and avg. more(9600) then win we won the MVC.

Please go back and do some research before coming on here and saying things that are not true. Look the numbers up.

Denver Holmes from Olathe, Kansas and C.J. Erickson from Minnetonka, Minnesota each signed a letter of intent during the early signing period back in November. At this time, I have not heard of any verbal committments to sign letters of intent in April. As has been stated, someone will have to leave the program for scholarships to be available for additional players to be signed. I think that will happen. One scholarship player has not been on the bench recently. Coach has stated publicly that he expects to sign at least one more player for next year.

[Aces1982]

Denver Holmes from Olathe, Kansas and C.J. Erickson from Minnetonka, Minnesota each signed a letter of intent during the early signing period back in November. At this time, I have not heard of any verbal committments to sign letters of intent in April. As has been stated, someone will have to leave the program for scholarships to be available for additional players to be signed. I think that will happen. One scholarship player has not been on the bench recently. Coach has stated publicly that he expects to sign at least one more player for next year.

The 2 verbals I was speaking of was Holmes and Erickson, I didn't think they have signed LOI yet though.

[AceFan]

The 2 verbals I was speaking of was Holmes and Erickson, I didn't think they have signed LOI yet though.

As you've said several times........you need to do the research!

[goaces]

Yeah, I said I wasn't going to engage in this absurd thread but my passion for the Aces will make me do otherwise. The problems that have confronted the Evansville program have little to do with being members of the MVC. Through a combination of not having the right people in place (coach and AD) have led to most of the horriic problems the Aces are facing right now, and it has spiraled mightily. I fully expect this skid to end under Marty's tenure.
It might do well to remeber that the two teams that I beleive are the "beasts" in our league (Creighton and SIU) wnt through horrendous streaks of their own. Northern Iowa was bad for a long while as was Indiana State. We all know what Drake went through. There are many other teams in other leagues I could mention too, but I won't get into that here.
1982 you are certainly entlitled to your opinion which is fine by me. We simply will have to agree to disagree. But please don't respond to this post with any "whinny" or "woe is me" agenda. As a former athlete and competitor that type of mentality is like hearing finger nails across a chalk board, no offense.
Since I take you may still live in Evansville, why not drive out to USI and watch the Screaming Eagles play. It may be small college ball, but they play at a high level and do well in the NCAA almost yearly.

[Aces1982]

Yeah, I said I wasn't going to engage in this absurd thread but my passion for the Aces will make me do otherwise. The problems that have confronted the Evansville program have little to do with being members of the MVC. Through a combination of not having the right people in place (coach and AD) have led to most of the horriic problems the Aces are facing right now, and it has spiraled mightily. I fully expect this skid to end under Marty's tenure. It might do well to remeber that the two teams that I beleive are the "beasts" in our league (Creighton and SIU) wnt through horrendous streaks of their own. Northern Iowa was bad for a long while as was Indiana State. We all know what Drake went through. There are many other teams in other leagues I could mention too, but I won't get into that here.
1982 you are certainly entlitled to your opinion which is fine by me. We simply will have to agree to disagree. But please don't respond to this post with any "whinny" or "woe is me" agenda. As a former athlete and competitor that type of mentality is like hearing finger nails across a chalk board, no offense.
Since I take you may still live in Evansville, why not drive out to USI and watch the Screaming Eagles play. It may be small college ball, but they play at a high level and do well in the NCAA almost yearly.

Sure you do, you were probably one saying Merfeld would turn it around also. The ego the fans have amazes me. Lets keep up this great run in the Valley.

Rock on Aces!!!

[goaces]

Yeah, I said I wasn't going to engage in this absurd thread but my passion for the Aces will make me do otherwise. The problems that have confronted the Evansville program have little to do with being members of the MVC. Through a combination of not having the right people in place (coach and AD) have led to most of the horriic problems the Aces are facing right now, and it has spiraled mightily. I fully expect this skid to end under Marty's tenure.
It might do well to remeber that the two teams that I beleive are the "beasts" in our league (Creighton and SIU) wnt through horrendous streaks of their own. Northern Iowa was bad for a long while as was Indiana State. We all know what Drake went through. There are many other teams in other leagues I could mention too, but I won't get into that here.
1982 you are certainly entlitled to your opinion which is fine by me. We simply will have to agree to disagree. But please don't respond to this post with any "whinny" or "woe is me" agenda. As a former athlete and competitor that type of mentality is like hearing finger nails across a chalk board, no offense.
Since I take you may still live in Evansville, why not drive out to USI and watch the Screaming Eagles play. It may be small college ball, but they play at a high level and do well in the NCAA almost yearly.

[jb399]

I also believe a lot of the blame has to be laid on the community. We do have the potential to do some pretty great things here at UE. I think the team needs to do more to get into the publics eye. Heck, just having like an autograph day for kids or something like a mid-night madness thing. I think at Eastland Mall there are two UE hats in the whole place to buy. Marty and the coaching staff have tried to do things to get the students more involved, but thats a huge uphill battle in itself considering todays typical UE student. More pride has got to be shown by the community, the school, and the students before there is any hopes of a turn around.

The basketball history at UE might be one of the best in the Valley. Producing two NBA stars and numerous pros. Having a local coach with his team playing in an old armory winning college division national championship. Rising from the ashes after the plane-wreak in our first year of DI and building a legit competitor. Resorting the pride the city had in the team back in the 80-90's is going to be Marty greatest task.

[Aces1982]

As you've said several times........you need to do the research!

Holmes has not signed, I didn't think he had. Erickson has signed.

[AceFan]

Holmes has not signed, I didn't think he had. Erickson has signed.

I think you're wrong about that. Rivals.com shows that both have signed a letter of intent. In addition, Coach has spoken about each player on the coaches show. NCAA rules prohibit a coach from speaking about a player prior to signing the letter of intent.

[Aces1982]

I think you're wrong about that. Rivals.com shows that both have signed a letter of intent. In addition, Coach has spoken about each player on the coaches show. NCAA rules prohibit a coach from speaking about a player prior to signing the letter of intent.

Scout says he has not. I may be wrong. See not to hard to admit if you are wrong or not. And that is what you get when you try to go from memory. Looking things up really may be an eye opener to some of you.

[AceFan]

Holmes has not signed, I didn't think he had. Erickson has signed.

This story was in the Courier this past weekend. See next to last paragraph.

'It won't be like this again'
By Steve Ford (Contact)
Saturday, March 8, 2008

Marty Simmons admitted that the end on the 2007-08 basketball season came for him before it was officially over.

The first-year coach for the University of Evansville men had poured every ounce of his heart and soul into every minute of every practice and game, regardless of effort or outcome.

But not long after he emptied the bench Thursday night in the waning seconds of the season-ending 69-46 loss to Missouri State in the Missouri Valley Conference Tournament, Simmons let it go.

He thought it came after he watched cherished practice player Trent Wargel drain a 3-pointer in his last game in purple, a well-earned moment on the big stage at the Scott Trade Center in St. Louis.

Simmons bit his lip, nodded and turned his back on the 9-21 season that was seconds from completion. He looked ahead.

"I was in it right until the very end," said Simmons. "But somewhere in there I couldn't help but think about next year. We've got most of these kids back, but it's going to be different. I promise it won't be like that again."

Simmons is a competitor, a former UE standout who helped his coach and mentor, Jim Crews, rebuild the program as a player and later as an assistant coach. But then the losing started.

There were two losing seasons under Crews before he departed for Army and five more under Steve Merfeld before the first year under Simmons ran the string to eight straight.

Simmons accepts full responsibility for his 9-21 slate. Nevertheless, he inherited one scholarship senior, Victor Gomez, not a senior class.

That group vanished early in the 2004-05 season when then-freshmen Dupree Fletcher and Marcus Butler (and sophomore Robert Nelson) were dismissed following on-campus thefts and classmate Fabien Calvez later left, homesick for his native France.

Those events went a long way toward costing Merfeld his job and left the program short of experienced talent.

"I don't think many people understand how close we were this year," said Simmons. "We just needed one more consistent scorer to emerge."

Instead, the Aces had to get by with junior captains Shy Ely (14.5 points per game) and Jason Holsinger (12.5 points, 4.6 assists per game) shouldering the scoring load in the face of defenses stacked to stop them.

The result was four losses by a single basket or less and four more very competitive games that got away late.

The good news is nine of the top 10 scorers on that team return, headed by Holsinger and Ely, an honorable mention all-Missouri Valley Conference selection and a member of its most-improved team.

Other starters back are junior forward Nate Garner (6 points per game, 5.3 rebounds per game), redshirt freshman Pieter van Tongeren (6 points, 4.3 rebounds) and true freshman Kavon Lacey, who led UE against Missouri State in the final with 13 points.

Sophomore Darin Granger (8 points per game) established himself as a reliable sixth man late in the year, with other depth coming from sophomores Jay Couisnard (3.4 points), Trevor Gregory (1.4 points), Taylor Morrow (1.2 points) and freshman Clint Hopf (2.9 points, 2.2 rebounds).

But only two of those players — Garner and Lacey — were recruited by Simmons. Another Simmons recruit, 7-foot freshman Zach House, redshirted. Freshman Jon Van Hoose was an injury redshirt.

Simmons has already signed two incoming freshmen, 6-4 guard Denver Holmes and 6-6 forward C.J. Erickson, and is still recruiting. He will sign one more player for sure for next season, possibly more.

"Evansville has lost long enough," said Simmons. "It's time for that to change."

[Aces101]

This article from the Evansville newspaper confirms the two signings in the Fall. Interesting to note that Coach Simmons says that they will definitely sign 1 more......how would he know that someone would leave after the season is over that early in the year. I believe they must have 1 scholly available or maybe Morrow will move back to walk-on status with an academic scholarship.

1. Forward, guard choose Aces
Simmons says he will 'sign one more'
By Tim Ethridge (Contact)
Thursday, November 15, 2007

Marty Simmons began filling out next season's University of Evansville basketball roster on Wednesday, signing a pair of prep stars to national letters of intent.

Denver Holmes, a 6-foot-4, 180-pound guard from Otlahe, Kan., and C.J. Erickson, a 6-5, 190-pound forward from Excelsior, Minn., pledged to attend UE next year. "And we're definitely going to sign one more," Simmons said.

Holmes averaged 15 points per game at Olathe South High School, then competed for the Kansas City Pump & Run AAU team over the summer.

Erickson played for Minnetonka High School in Minneapolis, averaging 15 points and 8 rebounds. He set the school record for blocked shots in a season with 82 — "His wing span, it's like he's 6-9," Simmons said. Erickson also played for the 43 Hoops AAU team, coached by former Southern Illinois standout and Minnesota Timberwolves forward Chris Carr.

Simmons likes both players' determination.

"These guys are really similar in their approach to the game — they've got a good skill level, good athleticism, and they're passionate about basketball," said Simmons.

"Denver's size makes him a versatile perimeter player. He plays hard, he's always ready to compete, and he's a winner. C.J. can score in lot of ways. When you combine his talent with his toughness, I am really confident that he will be a great addition."

This will be Simmons' first full recruiting class after taking over for Steve Merfeld.

This season's roster includes only one senior, 6-6 forward Victor Gomez (who is sidelined with an injury), along with four juniors (forwards Nate Garner and Shy Ely and guards Jason Holsinger and Trent Wargel), four sophomores (guard Taylor Morrow, Jay Couisnard, Trever Gregory and Darin Granger) and six freshmen (centers Pieter van Tongeren and Zach House, forward Clint Hopf, and guards Kavon Lacey, Jon Van Hoose and Jason Switzer).

Simmons is charged with turning around a program that has been seven seasons without a winning record.

In Erickson, said Chris Carr, his AAU coach, the Aces have another building block.

"C.J.'s game is very much suited for the style and system," Carr said.

High school coach John Headstrom agreed. "C.J. would rather average 12 points and do all the little things on a winner than get 25 a game on a .500 team," Headstrom said.

Holmes' versatility will make him fit well into the Aces' motion offense, Simmons believes. Said his prep coach, Jim Carr: "There's just so much up-side, they're really going to like him in Evansville. He's got range, and he can stroke it."


2. This next exerpt is from last week's article in the Evansville newspaper:

"Simmons has already signed two incoming freshmen, 6-4 guard Denver Holmes and 6-6 forward C.J. Erickson, and is still recruiting. He will sign one more player for sure for next season, possibly more."

[UE-BBALL#1]

I would expect Morrow to be dropped off an athletic scholarship next season. I also expect at least one player to leave, based on what I've been hearing around campus. That will take care of itself soon enough. The question is whether a quality recruit will still be around by that time to fill the scholly.

[jb399]

Sounds like Erickson has grown an inch in a couple of months. So hes got that going for him, which is nice.

[UE-BBALL#1]

Sounds like Erickson has grown an inch in a couple of months. So hes got that going for him, which is nice.

The only problem I see is that he doesn't seem to be much of a scorer. His high school stats indicate he is more of a gritty role player, who does nothing great and nothing bad. Unfortunately, UE's biggest need is some offensive playmakers. Holmes looks to be a good get, but we need to bring someone else in who is going to help pick up the scoring load. A scoring big would be nice.

[AceFan]

Sounds like Erickson has grown an inch in a couple of months. So hes got that going for him, which is nice.

I've seen him listed from 6'5" to 6'7"! Hope 6'7" is accurate and hope he's still growing!

[AceFan]

The only problem I see is that he doesn't seem to be much of a scorer. His high school stats indicate he is more of a gritty role player, who does nothing great and nothing bad. Unfortunately, UE's biggest need is some offensive playmakers. Holmes looks to be a good get, but we need to bring someone else in who is going to help pick up the scoring load. A scoring big would be nice.

Agree......his strength seems to be defense with a lot of blocked shots.

[Aces1982]

As I said already, I was wrong about the signings. I can admit that.

I too think Morrow will probably go to academic scholarship. Players possibly not coming back, Van Hoose, Cousianard, Hopf.

It was interesting to see some of you jump on the reearch of those scholarships but you won't research our history in the Valley and attendance figuers. And the success we had prior to MVC.

[Aces1982]

The only problem I see is that he doesn't seem to be much of a scorer. His high school stats indicate he is more of a gritty role player, who does nothing great and nothing bad. Unfortunately, UE's biggest need is some offensive playmakers. Holmes looks to be a good get, but we need to bring someone else in who is going to help pick up the scoring load. A scoring big would be nice.

Although he will just be a Freshman, I think they are high on House.

[jb399]

I have heard from a very reliable source next year PVT and Nate will start with House backing up PVT and Clint backing up Nate. Clint has more range than you would think from his size. He was recruited to play the four spot.

Personally, I like the sound of a Lacey/Holsinger/Ely back-court with a Garner/PVT front-court with House and Hopf waiting in the wings.

[UE-BBALL#1]

Although he will just be a Freshman, I think they are high on House.

I've heard Simmons say he doesn't think House will be ready to contribute until his junior year. He was more of a project signing. However, I have also heard that he has worked very hard this redshirt year building strength. I hope your information is fresher than mine and that they really think he will be ready to contribute some next season.

I'm kind of wondering where you are getting your information about guys who you think are going to leave. Mainly Hopf. I haven't heard any indications of him leaving the program and would be really surprised if he did. He was slowed during the offseason recovering from his knee surgery but looked like a kid who will be able to develop over the next couple of years. I would be really surprised if he left the program, so I'm wondering if you have information you are basing this on.

[Aces1982]

I do have information but I can't say who. All the people I have mentioned may be back, these are just possibilties that have been tossed around. If we can't sign anyone then odds are they will all be back.

A scholarship is not a 4 year commitment. It has to be renwed every year. The coach may or may not renew it.

Plus it makes sense, if they are looking at a couple of big guys and sign one of them. Then you have Pete, Hopf, House and the new guy. Someone has to go.

[Aces101]

Why would Hopf leave? He came off a knee injury and still played some quality minutes as a Freshman. Most big men do not play as true freshmen. I can see a future lineup of:

Starters
Lacey - PG
Holsinger - SG
Ely - SF
Hopf - PF
Van Tongeren - C

Bench
Holmes - PG
Granger - SG
Couisnard - SF
Garner- PF
House- C

Vanhoose - transfer or SG off bench
Erickson - Redshirt
Future signee - power forward (Redshirt)
Morrow - walkon
Gregory - walkon

It would be ideal to have 2 power forwards and 2 centers on this team. If a new signee is a 4 man, he could be redshirted to stagger the class distribution.

Van Tongeren (C)- Soph
Hopf (PF)- Soph
House (C)- Freshman
New Signee (PF)- redshirt

[Aces101]

Coach Simmons seems elated when he says how far Zach House has come since he showed up on campus. He said that he reminds him of a young Sasha Hupman, for those that remember him.

He has bulked up from 218 lbs to 249 lbs.

[Aces1982]

Coach Simmons seems elated when he says how far Zach House has come since he showed up on campus. He said that he reminds him of a young Sasha Hupman, for those that remember him.

He has bulked up from 218 lbs to 249 lbs.

That was in the old MCC, so most have forgotten those players.

[Aces1982]

Why would Hopf leave? He came off a knee injury and still played some quality minutes as a Freshman. Most big men do not play as true freshmen. I can see a future lineup of:

Starters
Lacey - PG
Holsinger - SG
Ely - SF
Hopf - PF
Van Tongeren - C

Bench
Holmes - PG
Granger - SG
Couisnard - SF
Garner- PF
House- C

Vanhoose - transfer or SG off bench
Erickson - Redshirt
Future signee - power forward (Redshirt)
Morrow - walkon
Gregory - walkon

It would be ideal to have 2 power forwards and 2 centers on this team. If a new signee is a 4 man, he could be redshirted to stagger the class distribution.

Van Tongeren (C)- Soph
Hopf (PF)- Soph
House (C)- Freshman
New Signee (PF)- redshirt

I am not saying he would leave, name has been thrown out. And he would not leave, just asked not to return. He played because we had to play him. Again, I am not saying these things are set in stone. Just some possible solutions that have been discussed. It all depends on who we can sign and at what position. It may be possible that no one will be asked to leave.

[goaces]

1982 I would be very curious about your sources. If you can't give specifics it sounds more like you are guessing than anything.

I have no sources at all, but would be shocked if Hopf left. Got plenty of playing time for a freshman, and he knows the Aces are in need of size.

I never knew why Merfield ever gave Morrow a scholarship, but if I am Marty I'd be trying to locate him another school to play for. He's a nice kid (I know his parents) who has a decent shot if left wide open. He is not a d-1 player and does not look at all if he would fit into Marty's plans.

[Aces1982]

1982 I would be very curious about your sources. If you can't give specifics it sounds more like you are guessing than anything.

I have no sources at all, but would be shocked if Hopf left. Got plenty of playing time for a freshman, and he knows the Aces are in need of size.

I never knew why Merfield ever gave Morrow a scholarship, but if I am Marty I'd be trying to locate him another school to play for. He's a nice kid (I know his parents) who has a decent shot if left wide open. He is not a d-1 player and does not look at all if he would fit into Marty's plans.

Then just chose not to believe me. That is your choice. I am not going to say names. It is someone inside the program. Again, this is not a for sure thing. It just has been discussed.

He did get plenty of playing time, but who else was going to play as a big when Pete got in foul trouble. This would not be the players choice. Coaches run players off all the time. Crews did it many many times.

Morrow can go to an academic scholarship.

[Bigcityp]

For those that thought Merfeld was the answer obviously couldn't see the writing on the walls in the early years.. The home game to Mississippi where we were up 20 points and lost, The Western Kentucky Game where the same thing happened and he got kicked out. Butler games as well. WHen the gambling blew up in his face, the program was set back 6 years. We are still paying for it today.

Give Simmons and this team a chance.

[goaces]

Then just chose not to believe me. That is your choice. I am not going to say names. It is someone inside the program. Again, this is not a for sure thing. It just has been discussed.

He did get plenty of playing time, but who else was going to play as a big when Pete got in foul trouble. This would not be the players choice. Coaches run players off all the time. Crews did it many many times.

Morrow can go to an academic scholarship.

Honestly, 1982 your response sounds like somethinkg out of junior high. This is just cluleless rubbage.

You also have no idea if Morrow even qualifies for an accedemic scholarship.

Good stuff 1982.

[Aces1982]

Honestly, 1982 your response sounds like somethinkg out of junior high. This is just cluleless rubbage.

You also have no idea if Morrow even qualifies for an accedemic scholarship.

Good stuff 1982.

Then don't believe it. And Morrow qualifies.

[goaces]

Then don't believe it. And Morrow qualifies.
:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

[Aces101]

Heck....while we're at it, let's give Holsinger and Van Tongeren academic scholarships too. I know they are on the Dean's List. Then we could use those 2 athletic scholarships on some high school seniors.

That would put us with 13 athletic schollies + 3 academic schollies (Morrow, Holsinger, Van Tongeren)

:naughty:

:aces:

[panthers2317]

I don't like Evansville leaving unless the Valley has another school locked up to take their place. If St. Louis University were available...then I can see that move being made. Evansville hasn't been great the past few seasons, but I can still see the t-shirts and Marcus Wilson beating a lot of Valley schools in the late 90's.

I think if they bring back the t-shirts...they'll start winning again.

[MSU Bleeds Maroon]

I think if they bring back the t-shirts...they'll start winning again.

Getting rid of the sleeves was a mistake, in my opinion.

[jb399]

The sleeves made an appearance this year again Ind. State. Didn't turn out real well. I say we keep them in storage for awhile.

[Pocket Aces]

The only problem I see is that he doesn't seem to be much of a scorer. His high school stats indicate he is more of a gritty role player, who does nothing great and nothing bad. Unfortunately, UE's biggest need is some offensive playmakers. Holmes looks to be a good get, but we need to bring someone else in who is going to help pick up the scoring load. A scoring big would be nice.


He probably could be more of a scorer but plays on the same high school team as Anthony Tucker, a big scorer and a University of Iowa recruit.

[shroomcap]

I always figures that the private, more academic members of the MVC (i.e. Bradley, Creighton, Drake and Evansville) were all about the same size.

Private, more academic members? That's a common misconception. Just because a school is private, that does not make it more academic. And that's coming from a guy with a private school diploma.

[9628]

Thank you for that observation. That misconception is mostly held by those who attend private colleges-probably to justify the extra cost.

[smsandmsuson]

If UE leaves, another school will just take their places at the bottom. Them leaving and another joining isnt going to fix any problem. Someone has to finish in last. So if UE, Ind State now finishes at the bottome? Then when will we talk about them jumping?

[Aces1982]

You can choose to believe this or not, I really don't care. Just reporting what happened.

After the game Thurs. Simmons told the team some of you can not play at this level. I will help you transfer out but you may be suprised at the interest you will get. Also, Van Hoose, as of MVC game no where to be found. No one knew where he was, again that was as of last Thurs.

[UE-BBALL#1]

You can choose to believe this or not, I really don't care. Just reporting what happened.

After the game Thurs. Simmons told the team some of you can not play at this level. I will help you transfer out but you may be suprised at the interest you will get. Also, Van Hoose, as of MVC game no where to be found. No one knew where he was, again that was as of last Thurs.

UE currently has 2 open scholarships. Morrow has been removed from an athletic scholarship and Vanhoose is leaving the program. I would assume that is all the changes that are going to be made. It would be odd to not make all the adjustments at the same time.

[Aces1982]

I had not heard that yet, good info. And for those who questioned me on "inside sources", well I hate to say I told you so but...I TOLD YOU SO(talking about Morrow getting scholarship taking away) and the fact people would be leaving(although that one was more obv.)

[Indy_BB]

There is no chance that the Horizon League would add a team, without subtracting one first. And to tell you the truth, the incremental gain from Evansville over Youngstown State isn't substantial enough to merit the effort.

[goaces]

Why Steve Merfield ever gave Morrow a scholarship to begin with is beyond me. He would do well to transfer to Oakland City. Van House is no big surprise. He did not have the physical tools to play in the MVC.
Anybody know if Marty has made any official offers yet?

[UEaceman]

I agree. UE has Jason Holsinger, who has been one of the prime players for UE since he came. We also have Shy Ely, who changed totally to become one of the leading scorers in the MVC this year. You also have Nate Garner, who is a tough and scrappy ballplayer and you've got Pieter Van Tongeren who could develop into a pretty good player. Also, you can't forget the recruits who can hopefully help us out after our seniors leave and maybe help us next year. So I wouldn't count out the Aces because Marty has just arrived and he has got some work to do with this program and him and the fans feel he's the right man for the job to turn this program around.

[UEaceman]

:aces:I agree. UE has Jason Holsinger, who has been one of the prime players for UE since he came. We also have Shy Ely, who changed totally to become one of the leading scorers in the MVC this year. You also have Nate Garner, who is a tough and scrappy ballplayer and you've got Pieter Van Tongeren who could develop into a pretty good player. Also, you can't forget the recruits who can hopefully help us out after our seniors leave and maybe help us next year. So I wouldn't count out the Aces because Marty has just arrived and he has got some work to do with this program and him and the fans feel he's the right man for the job to turn this program around.