Keno Davis Sporting News NCOY

[Dawg_tired]

Congrats Keno. Thanks for a great ride.

[DUBulldog]

link to Sporting News article (http://www.sportingnews.com/yourturn/viewtopic.php?t=379135)

[shockball]

Congratulations for a job done extraordinarily well. :bulldogs:

[3ontheway]

I'm impressed!!

Congrats to Keno on an award very well deserved!

[Keita44]

I wonder if Dawgie still thinks Keno doesn't deserve NCOY.....even though about everyone in the nation says he does.

[DawgieStyle]

I wonder if Dawgie still thinks Keno doesn't deserve NCOY.....even though about everyone in the nation says he does.

no I don't. The media loves a good story, they give a rats *** about actual accomplishment. Bruce Pearl has just as good as record against the #2 SOS in the Country. It doesn't get much better than that.

I care about results and stats, not about where Drake was 20 years ago as the media does.

Look, Keno Deserves to be in the discussion, and certainly MVC coach of the year. I'm not gonna disagree with that, he did a good job. Many are mad becaue I'm simply not hopping on the band wagon because it's a valley guy. I Don't care. The award is about this season alone, not about the past or where the team came from. That's what's wrong with these awards. It's supposed to reward this season only.

Tennessee and Bruce Pearl, whether you like the guy or not, had the toughest schedule and beat that schedule. That's what sells me on them. I know they have more talent, I understand that, but they don't have THAT much more talent, you are both in the NCAA tournament, aren't you?

[Keita44]

no I don't. The media loves a good story, they give a rats *** about actual accomplishment. Bruce Pearl has just as good as record against the #2 SOS in the Country. It doesn't get much better than that.

I care about results and stats, not about where Drake was 20 years ago as the media does.

Look, Keno Deserves to be in the discussion, and certainly MVC coach of the year. I'm not gonna disagree with that, he did a good job. Many are mad becaue I'm simply not hopping on the band wagon because it's a valley guy. I Don't care. The award is about this season alone, not about the past or where the team came from. That's what's wrong with these awards. It's supposed to reward this season only.

Tennessee and Bruce Pearl, whether you like the guy or not, had the toughest schedule and beat that schedule. That's what sells me on them. I know they have more talent, I understand that, but they don't have THAT much more talent, you are both in the NCAA tournament, aren't you?

If we are going on records, shouldn't Calipari of Memphis be the NCOY? He is 30-1 against the 19th hardest schedule.

Or Williams of UNC? He is 29-2 against the 4th hardest schedule

If you are going by the Pomeroy Ratings, then Bill Self of Kansas should be the NCOY, since his team is ranked #1 in the overall numbers ranking.

The point is, you can't go strictly on the team's numbers. You have to base your vote on who did the best job coaching, which means, who got the most possible out of his players. That man is Keno Davis this year.

[Mecha_Bulldog]

no I don't. The media loves a good story, they give a rats *** about actual accomplishment. Bruce Pearl has just as good as record against the #2 SOS in the Country. It doesn't get much better than that.

I care about results and stats, not about where Drake was 20 years ago as the media does.

Look, Keno Deserves to be in the discussion, and certainly MVC coach of the year. I'm not gonna disagree with that, he did a good job. Many are mad becaue I'm simply not hopping on the band wagon because it's a valley guy. I Don't care. The award is about this season alone, not about the past or where the team came from. That's what's wrong with these awards. It's supposed to reward this season only.

Tennessee and Bruce Pearl, whether you like the guy or not, had the toughest schedule and beat that schedule. That's what sells me on them. I know they have more talent, I understand that, but they don't have THAT much more talent, you are both in the NCAA tournament, aren't you?

Dawgie, would you say it's a reasonable conclusion for the Sporting News to decalre Keno Davis the national COY based on what Drake has accomplished this year? Or is this clearly a case of the media reaching past the most deserving candidate for the best story?

[Dawg_tired]

It doesn't matter what Stool thinks.

Keno is the Sporting News National Coach of the Year.
Drake is going to the dance and SIU is watching from home.
SIU is losing their coach.
Missouri State will soon inherit the title of Hand Check U once Weber is coach.
SIU will look for another coach.
The cycle of life continues.

[DawgieStyle]

Dawgie, would you say it's a reasonable conclusion for the Sporting News to decalre Keno Davis the national COY based on what Drake has accomplished this year? Or is this clearly a case of the media reaching past the most deserving candidate for the best story?

again, I can see where Davis could be COY, I don't think it's insane, I understand the reasons why many are picking him. Where Drake has been, First year coach, etc. etc.

I understand those reasons, I just don't agree with it. It's about wins and losses, and who those came against in 1 season. It's about this season alone. The award is coach of the year, not where the team was 20 years ago award, or first year head coach of the year award, etc. It is simply supposed to be about the best coach in this particular season, no other outside factors should apply in my opinion. The problem, is they do, and if you don't think they do, you're naive.

According to Kenpom today, Tennessee has an overall rank of 1 with a SOS of 1. That tells me they had the toughest schedule in the land, beat it, and are now, statistically, the #1 team overall, at according to kenpom. That tells me all I need to know.

http://www.kenpom.com/rpi.php

[gutwrencher]

Keno, Keno, he's our man!

Congrats, Coach.:bulldogs:

[WSUbballer]

So according to Dawgie, the COY should be given to the team with the best overall rank and SOS, regardless of the situations/expectations/scenarios surrounding them.

Has to be one of the most idiotic ways of thinking ever possible.

Thank God Stool doesn't get a vote.. :no:

[goaces]

Damn, Dawgie, take a zanex or whatever.

Way to go Keno! Unbelieable job!

[DawgieStyle]

So according to Dawgie, the COY should be given to the team with the best overall rank and SOS, regardless of the situations/expectations/scenarios surrounding them.

Has to be one of the most idiotic ways of thinking ever possible.

Thank God Stool doesn't get a vote.. :no:

typical response. I simply ignore the outside factors, such as expectations, stiuations, scenarious, etc. and focus on one thing. The results on the court. The other factors are fluff, ways for the media to spin things, make stories, slight or pump up certain teams, etc.

Wins and losses, and the quality of those are the only thing that matter, and are the only objective tool. Scenarios, expectations, situations as you put it, are all subjective and easily manipulated. No thanks, leaves too much room for bias and BS.

[WSUbballer]

typical response. I simply ignore the outside factors, such as expectations, stiuations, scenarious, etc. and focus on one thing. The results on the court. The other factors are fluff, ways for the media to spin things, make stories, slight or pump up certain teams, etc.

Stool,
This isn't the RPI idiot. Expectations, situations, and scenarios, believe it or not, ARE FACTORS in determining the COY. There's no strict rules or a concrete referendum that says the COY is determined by some numbers generated from a computer. That's beyond hilarious that you think that's how it works.

You have no clue what COY means and how it's given. And that's why you thankfully don't have a say in it.

The results on the court.

Like 28-4? Yep, that just doesn't cut it.

I guess the COY is only made for BCS coaches because frankly they'll never be a time, due to conference affiliation, that a mid-major or low-major coach can ever win COY according to your ridiculous and idiotic 'parameters'.

Just stop. Your intelligence level keeps lowering every single day. Just please stop.

[DawgieStyle]

Stool,
This isn't the RPI idiot. Expectations, situations, and scenarios, believe it or not, ARE FACTORS in determining the COY. There's no strict rules or a concrete referendum that says the COY is determined by some numbers generated from a computer. That's beyond hilarious that you think that's how it works.

I didn't say that's how it worked, obviously. I'm basically saying that's how it SHOULD work. Big Difference.

[DawgieStyle]

I guess the COY is only made for BCS coaches because frankly they'll never be a time, due to conference affiliation, that a mid-major or low-major coach can ever win COY according to your ridiculous and idiotic 'parameters'.

I hate to say this, but if they play the toughest competition, than yah, I guess that sadly is how it would have to work. I guess the valley is gonna have to sack up, stop playing the mid major card, and actually go on the road to some these BCS schools, and quit whining for home and home series. That means SIU as well.

The only way to improve your schedule if they won't come to you, is to go after them.

I know that will sound all anti valley, bla bla bla bla.....get over it, that's how it's gonna have to happen. That's what Gonzaga did.

aslo there is a saying, to be the best, you have to beat the best.

[WSUbballer]

I didn't say that's how it worked, obviously. I'm basically saying that's how it SHOULD work. Big Difference.

No, it SHOULD'NT.

I'd really like to know anyone else's opinion on this.

[WSUbballer]

I hate to say this, but if they play the toughest competition, than yah, I guess that sadly is how it would have to work. I guess the valley is gonna have to sack up, stop playing the mid major card, and actually go on the road to some these BCS schools, and quit whining for home and home series. That means SIU as well.

The only way to improve your schedule if they won't come to you, is to go after them.

I know that will sound all anti valley, bla bla bla bla.....get over it, that's how it's gonna have to happen. That's what Gonzaga did.

aslo there is a saying, to be the best, you have to beat the best.

Dumb. Stupid. Lacking of Common Sense. Idiotic. So, you pretty much just admitted BCS coaches are the only coaches eligible for COY? Wow.

Not even worth arguing with someone who's so miffed, he'd never knew what hit him.

Somehow, if SIU would've had a 28-4 season with an RPI of about 5 and SOS of about 11, things would be different.

Tool City.

[DawgieStyle]

Dumb. Stupid. Lacking of Common Sense. Idiotic. So, you pretty much just admitted BCS coaches are the only coaches eligible for COY? Wow.

Not even worth arguing with someone who's so miffed, he'd never knew what hit him.

Somehow, if SIU would've had a 28-4 season with an RPI of about 5 and SOS of about 11, things would be different.

Tool City.

I didn't say it was exclusive to BCS teams, you said that. I said it was about statistics.

If a Valley team had the best combination of SOS and RPI, then yes, a valley coach should win it. The problem, as you correctly pointed out, is that no MVC team has a "real" shot at doing that, at least not in the near future.

My answer to solve that is is to improve our schedules, stop acting like mid majors, and suck it up, and go on the road and forget the damned home and home series. That's how we are going to improve our SOS and RPI combination.

You want to catch the BCS teams and have a shot at that COY award? Go after them on their turf, beat them, and attain that level, then any coach, including a valley coach can win the award.

Of course im basing this on what I feel the criteria should be, wins and losses, and the quality of those, nothing else.

[drakeguy]

Forgetting the home and home series takes would be acting like a mid-major. You don't see a lot of major programs forget home and home series. Unless of course that is to just take a home only series. The point is that when you only go on the road, you are acting more and more like a mid-major. :bulldogs::valley:

[WSUbballer]

Keno Davis = garbage
Keno Davis = bad coach
Keno Davis = bad scheduling (even though this entire schedule was completely based on his father, the former coach - still his fault)
Keno Davis = Not a BCS coach = Not COY

That pretty much takes care of that.

[WSUbballer]

Forgetting the home and home series takes would be acting like a mid-major. You don't see a lot of major programs forget home and home series. Unless of course that is to just take a home only series. The point is that when you only go on the road, you are acting more and more like a mid-major. :bulldogs::valley:

Exactly.

WSU did this once last year. It was a decent game because it was on national tv (well, somewhat). If it's done once, here and there, it's acceptable.. it turned out good for WSU anyways.

But I agree, it shouldn't be the norm.

I guess Dawgie wants us to be the Savannah States and Arkansas-Pine Bluffs of the college basketball world.

[DawgieStyle]

Forgetting the home and home series takes would be acting like a mid-major. You don't see a lot of major programs forget home and home series. Unless of course that is to just take a home only series. The point is that when you only go on the road, you are acting more and more like a mid-major. :bulldogs::valley:

that's a cop out. They are the establisment, they have earned the right to dictate where the games should be played. They have won national titles, final 4's, etc. etc.

If you want to break that cycle, if they WON'T come play you, you have only one option. and that's to go to them. does it suck, yes. Does it make it tougher? Yes. But over the years, those conf. have earned the right to be in that position. If you want to break into that circle of power conferences, you are going to have to push your way in, not be invited.

[WSUbballer]

that's a cop out. They are the establisment, they have earned the right to dictate where the games should be played. They have won national titles, final 4's, etc. etc.

If you want to break that cycle, if they WON'T come play you, you have only one option. and that's to go to them. does it suck, yes. Does it make it tougher? Yes. But over the years, those conf. have earned the right to be in that position. If you want to break into that circle of power conferences, you are going to have to push your way in, not be invited.

Maybe you should tell Lowery about your views. SIU has yet to do such a thing.

[DoubleJayAlum]

I think Keno absolutely deserves this award, my impression of the Drake students notwithstanding.

Congrats to Keno. Now make 'em give you a big raise!

[DawgieStyle]

Keno Davis = garbage
Keno Davis = bad coach
Keno Davis = bad scheduling (even though this entire schedule was completely based on his father, the former coach - still his fault)
Keno Davis = Not a BCS coach = Not COY

That pretty much takes care of that.

way to rationally debate the topic. You aren't even reading what I post.

1) I said he did a good job this year, I said it wasn't crazy for him to be in the discussion, or it wouldn't surprise me if he did win it.

2) I didn't say it had to be a BCS coach to win it. I said the coach of the team with the best SOS and RPI combo should. It happens to be an SEC team, Tenn. and Bruce Pearl. I can't help what the stats say. or what they will probably be next year, and the year after.

3) It wasn't awful scheduling, it just wasn't top notch. Their SOS isn't bad, it's just not one of the better ones.

4) I didn't blame Keno for his Father's scheduling, please show me where I said that?

[DawgieStyle]

Maybe you should tell Lowery about your views. SIU has yet to do such a thing.

again, you aren't reading my post, I said as much.

[Brave2001]

Forgetting the home and home series takes would be acting like a mid-major. You don't see a lot of major programs forget home and home series. Unless of course that is to just take a home only series. The point is that when you only go on the road, you are acting more and more like a mid-major. :bulldogs::valley:

That's debatable.

Look, once you shed the mid-majar label, you are correct. You should not be taking buy out games. Let's be honest though the MVC is not on the same footing as the BCS conferences (I'm not sure we ever can be, resources are resources and they are always going to have more).

The question is should you take buy out games against BCS teams in order to elevate yourself out of the mid-major label or try some other approach (these are obviously limited and probably would take much longer to implement). It's a gamble either way.

Yes you technically violate the whole acting like a mid major thing while taking a buy out, but lets be honest...there's no harm in acting like one, since you still are one. Once you attain a certain level I could see no longer accepting buy outs (Gonzaga has reached this point, they can now get home and homes with some of the bigger name shcools on a consistent basis).

You have to balanace it too. You can't take all buy outs. If I was making a Non Conf Schedule. I would schedule max 2 buyouts with a BCS (and we arent talking Iowa St or Northwestern here, think more like UNC, Kentucky, Mich St, etc).

I would then try to get 2 of the follwing type: home-away, away-home-away, home-neutral-away series with a BCS school (I would take what I would I could get here, whethers Its Iowa St or Indiana).

I would then get in a early season tourney with a couple BCS schools in it.

That gives a potential of 6 BCS games in the non-conf, 3 on the road, 2 neutral, and 1 at home.

Your remaining 4 or 5 games can be against midmajors and cupcakes at home preferrably (probably 1 on the road).

That's just how I would do it, easier said than done, I assume though. Everything looks easier on paper.

[WSUbballer]

way to rationally debate the topic. You aren't even reading what I post.

That's what happens when you have to deal with irrationality.

1) I said he did a good job this year At 28-4, he could've done better.

2) I didn't say it had to be a BCS coach to win it. I said the coach of the team with the best SOS and RPI combo should. It happens to be an SEC team, Tenn. and Bruce Pearl. I can't help what the stats say. or what they will probably be next year, and the year after.

According to your retarded 'standards', a BCS coach should and would win it every year.

3) It wasn't awful scheduling, it just wasn't top notch. Their SOS isn't bad, it's just not one of the better ones.

Blame it on Dr. Tom.

4) I didn't blame Keno for his Father's scheduling, please show me where I said that?

Yes. He doesn't deserve to win COY according to you because the power numbers just aren't there. Schedules are completed months and years in advance. This type of schedule was pretty much laid out by the predecessor, in this case, Coach Tom Davis.

So without power to control the schedule this year, Keno just goes out and wins 28 out of the 32 games put forth in front of him, that he didn't schedule. But that doesn't matter, the schedule isn't No.1, so no COY.

I'll let you get the last word in, as always. I gotta take a break. I'm killing innocent brain cells arguing with you.

[DawgieStyle]

That's what happens when you have to deal with irrationality.

At 28-4, he could've done better.



According to your retarded 'standards', a BCS coach should and would win it every year.



Blame it on Dr. Tom.



Yes. He doesn't deserve to win COY according to you because the power numbers just aren't there. Schedules are completed months and years in advance. This type of schedule was pretty much laid about by the predecessor, in this case, Coach Tom Davis.

So without power to control the schedule this year, Keno just goes out and wins 28 out of the 32 games put forth in front of him, that he didn't schedule. But that doesn't matter, the schedule isn't No.1, so no COY.

I'll let you get the last word in, as always. I gotta take a break. I'm killing innocent brain cells arguing with you.

instead of arguing why Keno should win it. Tell me why Bruce Pearl Shouldn't.

[WSUfan]

instead of arguing why Keno should win it. Tell me why Bruce Pearl Shouldn't.

He didn't have to "coach." Toss Chris Lofton the ball and watch. Throw in the Smiths (JaJuan, Tyler & Ramar), Wayne Chism, etc. and relax.

[DawgieStyle]

He didn't have to "coach." Toss Chris Lofton the ball and watch. Throw in the Smiths (JaJuan, Tyler & Ramar), Wayne Chism, etc. and relax.

I don't buy that, some of the most talented teams have failed to be good due to issues not solved by the coach, the yankees are one good example, the lakers when they had malone, payton, shaq and kobe. Etc. etc.

and let's not confuse anyone, Tennessee, yes, has a talented team, but there are some that are more than they are, and yet they still have the #1 RPI against the #1 SOS.

[drakeguy]

That's debatable.

Look, once you shed the mid-majar label, you are correct. You should not be taking buy out games. Let's be honest though the MVC is not on the same footing as the BCS conferences (I'm not sure we ever can be, resources are resources and they are always going to have more).

The question is should you take buy out games against BCS teams in order to elevate yourself out of the mid-major label or try some other approach (these are obviously limited and probably would take much longer to implement). It's a gamble either way.

Yes you technically violate the whole acting like a mid major thing while taking a buy out, but lets be honest...there's no harm in acting like one, since you still are one. Once you attain a certain level I could see no longer accepting buy outs (Gonzaga has reached this point, they can now get home and homes with some of the bigger name shcools on a consistent basis).

You have to balanace it too. You can't take all buy outs. If I was making a Non Conf Schedule. I would schedule max 2 buyouts with a BCS (and we arent talking Iowa St or Northwestern here, think more like UNC, Kentucky, Mich St, etc).

I would then try to get 2 of the follwing type: home-away, away-home-away, home-neutral-away series with a BCS school (I would take what I would I could get here, whethers Its Iowa St or Indiana).

I would then get in a early season tourney with a couple BCS schools in it.

That gives a potential of 6 BCS games in the non-conf, 3 on the road, 2 neutral, and 1 at home.

Your remaining 4 or 5 games can be against midmajors and cupcakes at home preferrably (probably 1 on the road).

That's just how I would do it, easier said than done, I assume though. Everything looks easier on paper.

Agreed easier said than done. I really just wish as you mentioned that the Valley teams would get in more big pre-season tournaments. I don't mind the neutral court setting, but I am just not a big fan of several buy-out games a year. If all Valley teams, or at least most, played one buy out a year plus one marquee pre season tournament conference RPI would be a huge boost. No one or two teams have the potential to get totally hammered. Of course it would require several wins in these games, but the Valley has played these teams well overall.

[WSUbballer]

instead of arguing why Keno should win it. Tell me why Bruce Pearl Shouldn't.

1.) The obvious one, the one WSU Fan already correctly pointed out, that it's easy to coach a team with a lot more talent. Drake, while arguably less talented (don't take that the wrong way Drake fans, yes there is talent), has relied more on its coaching. Don't even try to argue that one.

2.) Tennessee was a preseason Top 10 team. They were expected to be in this position at this time of the year. Anything less, would be a disappointment. Basically, Pearl is doing something he is supposed to be doing. You tell me what Keno and Drake were supposed to be doing right now back in November. Again, not arguable, so don't even click the 'quote' button.

3.) Bruce Pearl, on occasion, wears an orange suit. Enough said.

Now, conversely, tell me why Keno should win it.

[DawgieStyle]

1.) The obvious one, the one WSU Fan already correctly pointed out, that it's easy to coach a team with a lot more talent. Drake, while arguably less talented (don't take that the wrong way Drake fans, yes there is talent), has relied more on its coaching. Don't even try to argue that one.

2.) Tennessee was a preseason Top 10 team. They were expected to be in this position at this time of the year. Anything less, would be a disappointment. Basically, Pearl is doing something he is supposed to be doing. You tell me what Keno and Drake were supposed to be doing right now back in November. Again, not arguable, so don't even click the 'quote' button.

3.) Bruce Pearl, on occasion, wears an orange suit. Enough said.

Now, conversely, tell me why Keno should win it.

why keno should win it...First, so we're clear, lets throw out Drake's past and that he's a first year coach none of that matters to me. Drake has compiled alot of wins, won the MVC reg. season, and MVC tourney, made the NCAA tourney and done it with limited depth. All very good things.

I just don't think its enough to overtake Pearl and Tenn. And I can argue that Tennessee was "expected" to be a top 10 team, becuase again, that's a sujective trait, that doesn't matter to me.

I think Keno and Drake has had a great season, worthy of praise and respect, I just don't think its been better than Bruce Pearl and Tenn.

[WSUbballer]

The editor, writers, and compilers of The Sporting News think you're wrong.

[DawgieStyle]

The editor, writers, and compilers of The Sporting News think you're wrong.

and that's fine. It's a subjective award. There is no singular correct answer. And the criteria each person has, will also be different.

[WSUbballer]

and that's fine. It's a subjective award. There is no singular correct answer. And the criteria each person has, will also be different.

The 'subjective' shyt is getting kinda old..

You said Tennessee being a Top 10 team in the preseason was subjective. Why? Do you think that was unjustified? I'm thinking it was fact. You apparently think so too since you're all over Pearl's oranges.

So far, I'd estimate there's approximately 100 or so people associated with the production of The Sporting News.

100-1 so far. That's a big hole to dig out of.

[D Fast]

I just don't think its enough to overtake Pearl and Tenn. And I can argue that Tennessee was "expected" to be a top 10 team, becuase again, that's a sujective trait, that doesn't matter to me.

Figured we get a UT fans perspective. I was talking with my former roommate and good friend who him and his whole family are huge pride of the south fans and attend a lot of UT sporting events.

I asked him who he thought should win this year between these two and this was his reaction:
"3:32 PM
no way, we were predicted a top 10 ten team we met expectations u guys exceeded"

Again just an outside opinion.

[Ferocious Cat]

Congrats to Keno!! Well deserved.:bulldogs:

Bruce Pearl's team was picked to finish 9th in the SEC?
I think maybe DS wants Pearl to win it because he looks better with his shirt off than Keno.:naughty:

[XSaluki]

Congrats to Keno and Drake. Pearl didn't get COY outright in the SEC, not sure how he can be NCOY

http://www.govolsxtra.com/news/2008/mar/11/coaches-split-voting-pearl-gillispie-share-sec-awa/

[not sure anyone will notice this post between all the blathering]

[DawgieStyle]

Congrats to Keno and Drake. Pearl didn't get COY outright in the SEC, not sure how he can be NCOY

http://www.govolsxtra.com/news/2008/mar/11/coaches-split-voting-pearl-gillispie-share-sec-awa/

[not sure anyone will notice this post between all the blathering]

Billy Gillespi winning any type of award for the season Kentucky just mailed in, is proof positive the media gives 2 @#$@# about what actually happens on the court.

[Aces1982]

Congrats to Keno and Drake. Pearl didn't get COY outright in the SEC, not sure how he can be NCOY

http://www.govolsxtra.com/news/2008/mar/11/coaches-split-voting-pearl-gillispie-share-sec-awa/

[not sure anyone will notice this post between all the blathering]

That is hard to believe!!!! I may give a share to Pearl and Stallings.

[creightonfever]

Wow, thats incredible.. nicely done Keno. Well deserved! Now get your butts to Omaha so I can cheer for ya.