Finally, some sanity....

[kabullseye]

Forde Minutes have Jacobsen as MVC Player of the Year.

Glad handing it to the conference champion all of the time is a cop out. Miller is good, but POY, come on!

[Strike00]

Come on, kabullseye, Jacobson is a great player and im glad he is a Panther, but he did not have a POY type season.

[shockinphi]

The sixth place team doesn't deserve player of the year either.

[Fraydog]

Forde Minutes have Jacobsen as MVC Player of the Year.

Glad handing it to the conference champion all of the time is a cop out. Miller is good, but POY, come on!

Jacobsen was my preseason pick for POY, but he couldn't hit the broadside of a barn this year. He needed to play more in control and not try to be the hero on every possesion. Miller realized that providing leadership is the most important thing he could do, so he didn't try to do something spectacular every time he ran down the floor. Judging by the season WSU had, I'd say he didn't need to, either.

[dregn]

He also said it's pretty much impossible to pick the player of the year, it's not like he gave it to Ben hands down. He also said that he had a down year which probably came from pressing to hard so he definately gave him the benifit of the doubt.

[jelly_81]

He also said it's pretty much impossible to pick the player of the year, it's not like he gave it to Ben hands down. He also said that he had a down year which probably came from pressing to hard so he definately gave him the benifit of the doubt.
Benifit of the doubt?? You don't get player of the year when you had a down year because you were pressing. Miller was player of the year no questions asked.

[Felix_the_Cat]

Jacobsen was my preseason pick for POY, but he couldn't hit the broadside of a barn this year. He needed to play more in control and not try to be the hero on every possesion. Miller realized that providing leadership is the most important thing he could do, so he didn't try to do something spectacular every time he ran down the floor. Judging by the season WSU had, I'd say he didn't need to, either.


UNI needed Jacobsen to be a hero on a lot of possesions. Once the shot clock hit around 8-10 seconds, nobody else even acted like they wanted the ball. I'm not saying he had a POY season, though.

[WSUfan]

Forde Minutes have Jacobsen as MVC Player of the Year.

Glad handing it to the conference champion all of the time is a cop out. Miller is good, but POY, come on!
Benny does not deserve POY honors. He didn't have a POY year. He didn't even deserve to be on the MVC first team. A player should earn his/her awards, not receive them as a gift. I guess UNI is giving out lots of koolaid.

[kabullseye]

Then who do you have winning the MVP this weekend?

No money on Miller, huh?

[getreal4]

Sorry kitty fans, no way Benny deserves POY this season. Needed to win a couple of more games to earn the award.

[stormpanther5012]

My favorite part of the article (sure I wish Ben had gotten POY, I mean with every team throwing everything but the kitchen sink at him and still getting 14ppg, and shooting only when the clock is expiring sucks, but hey thats hoops you make the shots you take), but back to the point, my favorite part:

"Minutes Moment of the Year: Say hello to my little friends. Creighton beats the in-state BCS school, Nebraska, by 26. Northern Iowa beats Iowa. Indiana State beats Indiana. Evansville beats Purdue. Bradley beats DePaul by 15. Makes you wonder what might happen if Kansas would play Wichita State, Missouri would play Missouri State or Illinois would play Southern Illinois, doesn't it?"

I do wonder, I wonder if we would all have to be sitting here listening to ESPN spout off about how overrated the Valley is this year.

[Urbandale Panther]

The sixth place team doesn't deserve player of the year either.

So when Iowa was first in the Big Ten and Illinois and Michigan State were both ranked significantly higher than them in the polls, do you believe that Iowa deserves the big ten POY and they are the better team?

No, and 6th or not, UNI is a better team than WSU, whether they are on a 4 game Valley skid or not.

[kabullseye]

You go UP.

[MikeKennedyRulz]

I like the way Turgeon put it:

"The MVP of our team...is our team."

That is so true. Miller was the most important player to this team, but not for his points, rebounds, or blocks. It was his leadership ability on the court and his unselfishness in not trying to be the man every time he touched the ball. If he was doubled in the post, he would find the open man and pass the ball. He was all about doing what it took to win a championship, and the irony of it all is that in doing that he became the POY.

[MikeKennedyRulz]

UNI is a better team than WSU, whether they are on a 4 game Valley skid or not.

This is quite possibly the dumbest, most homer, post in the history of the new valleytalk. It takes more than 2 games in an 18 game Valley season to make you a "better" team. Better in those two games? Yes. But not better over the long haul. Sorry.

[WSUbballer]

You go UP.
Judging by the majority in here, UNI fans included, you're the one that seems to be without sanity.

[WSUfan]

Then who do you have winning the MVP this weekend?

No money on Miller, huh?
Let's just wait and see who is tourney MVP. Benny is a very good player and deserves lots of respect. However he did not play well enough to earn first team honors; Moss, Tolliver or Webster would have been better picks than BJ.

Anyone of Miller, Jacobson, Ahearn, Stout, Young, O'Bryant, Sommerville, Tolliver, Couisnard, Wilson, Tatum, Mullins or someone else could win the MVC tourney MVP. I think Miller's chances are as good as anyone elses.

[kabullseye]

You sure it isn't Ted Kennedy?

Need you to know that the Turgeon quote, and the kindergarden teacher psychobabble bull**** cost me my lunch. Oh well, puking is good exercise.

[WSUfan]

So when Iowa was first in the Big Ten and Illinois and Michigan State were both ranked significantly higher than them in the polls, do you believe that Iowa deserves the big ten POY and they are the better team?

No, and 6th or not, UNI is a better team than WSU, whether they are on a 4 game Valley skid or not.
If you are correct, then why did UNI end the season tied for fifth place?

[BlueJay_Slim]

Let's just wait and see who is tourney MVP. Benny is a very good player and deserves lots of respect. However he did not play well enough to earn first team honors; Moss, Tolliver or Webster would have been better picks than BJ.

Anyone of Miller, Jacobson, Ahearn, Stout, Young, O'Bryant, Sommerville, Tolliver, Couisnard, Wilson, Tatum, Mullins or someone else could win the MVC tourney MVP. I think Miller's chances are as good as anyone elses.


Or last year's MVP...Johnny Mathies! It's his until somebody takes it.

I personally think it will be Nick Porter.

[Felix_the_Cat]

You sure it isn't Ted Kennedy?

Need you to know that the Turgeon quote, and the kindergarden teacher psychobabble bull**** cost me my lunch. Oh well, puking is good exercise.

You're fighting a losing battle.

[WSUfan]

You sure it isn't Ted Kennedy?

Need you to know that the Turgeon quote, and the kindergarden teacher psychobabble bull**** cost me my lunch. Oh well, puking is good exercise.
Are you in junior high? You are giving UNI fans a bad name (unless you are actually an Iowa fan trying to make UNI look bad ..... hmm).

[Urbandale Panther]

This is quite possibly the dumbest, most homer, post in the history of the new valleytalk. It takes more than 2 games in an 18 game Valley season to make you a "better" team. Better in those two games? Yes. But not better over the long haul. Sorry.

Some other games I would suggest you pay attention to then are Iowa, LSU and Bucknell. All nationally ranked teams. If you believe in WSU, then these are 5 out of 30.

The Shockers resume falls short of making them a "better" team. Perhaps you could search deep within your own homer thoughts to realize and accept this.

[kabullseye]

Jacobson not meeting his standards set in years prior shouldn't cost him the POY.

How long will we have to listen to....it's been 23 years...they were picked 5th...the monkey is finally off their back...they lost twice to the underperforming Panthers?

[WSUbballer]

Some other games I would suggest you pay attention to then are Iowa, LSU and Bucknell. All nationally ranked teams. If you believe in WSU, then these are 5 out of 30.

The Shockers resume falls short of making them a "better" team. Perhaps you could search deep within your own homer thoughts to realize and accept this.

UNI may have WSU's number...but as before mentioned, it's what you do in the long haul that makes a better team. Florida State has split with Duke now in regular season play. So by your point, FSU is just as good as Duke? I don't think so. WSU is better because they won the Valley by 2 full games in its toughest year. UNI is slipping. I appreciate the sane UNI fans in here and won't hold these two desperate fools against you.

[kabullseye]

Shall we compile this long lost list of quality WSU wins this year?

Saaahnoooozzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz...............zzzzzzz zzzzzzzzzz

[WSUbballer]

Shall we compile this long lost list of quality WSU wins this year?

Saaahnoooozzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz...............zzzzzzz zzzzzzzzzz
Losing at Indiana State....thats a killer...

[Urbandale Panther]

UNI may have WSU's number...but as before mentioned, it's what you do in the long haul that makes a better team. Florida State has split with Duke now in regular season play. So by your point, FSU is just as good as Duke? I don't think so. WSU is better because they won the Valley by 2 full games in its toughest year. UNI is slipping. I appreciate the sane UNI fans in here and won't hold these two desperate fools against you.

fools?

Where's your argument that WSU is a better team? All I've heard is that 2 games don't count. I reference UNI's resume and you bring up an argument that proves your ignorance. In fact, it helps my argument. Duke is a better team because they have a better resume. They've beat better teams and are a more battle-tested team. So regardless of the fact that they lost to a lesser team (perhaps a mini-Duke skid) they are still the better team.

Don't play this "better than though" bs on me. Your losing what credibility you had on this site.

[WSUbballer]

fools?

Where's your argument that WSU is a better team? All I've heard is that 2 games don't count. I reference UNI's resume and you bring up an argument that proves your ignorance. In fact, it helps my argument. Duke is a better team because they have a better resume. They've beat better teams and are a more battle-tested team. So regardless of the fact that they lost to a lesser team (perhaps a mini-Duke skid) they are still the better team.

Don't play this "better than though" bs on me. Your losing what credibility you had on this site.
And you're whining about a season that's over already and the fact your team fiinshed 6th. Deal with it and accept your team's choke job.

[MikeKennedyRulz]

fools?

Where's your argument that WSU is a better team? All I've heard is that 2 games don't count. I reference UNI's resume and you bring up an argument that proves your ignorance. In fact, it helps my argument. Duke is a better team because they have a better resume. They've beat better teams and are a more battle-tested team. So regardless of the fact that they lost to a lesser team (perhaps a mini-Duke skid) they are still the better team.

Don't play this "better than though" bs on me. Your losing what credibility you had on this site.

Yeah, its Shocker fans that are losing credibility on here. Believe whatever you want.;)

[kabullseye]

You mean shock job. Check your contemporary history.

[Urbandale Panther]

And you're whining about a season that's over already and the fact your team fiinshed 6th. Deal with it and accept your team's choke job.

I'll take that as your own personal way of waiving the white flag. Thanks for your time.

[MikeKennedyRulz]

I'll take that as your own personal way of waiving the white flag. Thanks for your time.

Actually, I think that is the MVC Championship banner he is waving. You might want to get your eyes checked.:)

[kabullseye]

Shocker fans know deep down in places they don't like to talk about, that their success this year is partly the result of being scared into 1st Place, guaranteeing they wouldn't have to see the Cats until Sunday.

[MikeKennedyRulz]

Yeah, that is actually what Turgeon said before the season started. He said there sole motivation for winning the conference would be to keep from playing UNI early in the tourney, because he knew UNI would finish 6th and be on the other side of the bracket.

[DUShock]

Forde Minutes have Jacobsen as MVC Player of the Year.

Glad handing it to the conference champion all of the time is a cop out. Miller is good, but POY, come on!

Why is it that "glad handing" is always frowned upon when it's not the despondent one's team winning the conference title? I do agree that handing out POY & COY to the conference champ is often times inaccurate and tiresome. Granted this season POY was anyone's guess BUT I have a hard time seeing how anyone can act surprised at the COY outcome. Coach Altman (a truly classy gentleman & the Valley's coaching patriarch) may have over performed without the Funkmeister but ultimately Creighton finished as projected 2nd in the Conference, only it was behind the distained Shockers and not the Saluki's.

We as fans are fortunate to have teams in a basketball league, a league that is a coach's league and not one that completely prostitutes itself like the BCS schools. We get to see a lot of great basketball and we should never lose sight of this fact.

Go Valley!!

Go Shocks!!!!

[MSNSaluki]

ah, glad to see those donated dollars making this thread possible.

i don't like wichita state very much at all but the shockers won the valley this year ... BY TWO FREAKIN' GAMES!

in other words, ****!:eek:

[cbjay]

For clarification purposes, it was NOT a Jay fan complaining. I think most Creighton fans believe that DA was deserving of COY but did not expect it. Turgeon won it fair and square. No surprise here.

[DUShock]

For clarification purposes, it was NOT a Jay fan complaining. I think most Creighton fans believe that DA was deserving of COY but did not expect it. Turgeon won it fair and square. No surprise here.

Sorry I guess I should have clarified I understand the comment was made by a Panther fan. I used Coach Altman because, in my mind, as the season progressed it was squarely between MT & DA.

I wish every team well, of course hoping they all finish behind my alma mater :D and that each team comes out of the tourney healthy, especially those headed to postseason!

Go Valley!!

Go Shocks!!!!

[dawg_tired nemesis]

I think the POY could have been any number of players. Nobody dominated the league and established themselves as the clear cut favorite. PM was just as deserving as any. COY should and did go to MT. But I wouldn't have been surprised to see DA come away with it either. As for who the better team is, i'll let the standings decide that.

[kabullseye]

UNI 75
WSU 61

Jacobson 21
Miller 7


UNI 68
WSU 56

Jacobson 15
Miller 7

POY?

[DUShock]

I don't understand your point.

I think everyone (but perhaps you and Cold) agree that POY could have been anyone and that historically, rightly or wrongly, this honor has gone to a starter on the regular season conference champ. And for COY, most everyone again, except perhaps you and Cold, seem to agree that it was between Coaches Altman & Turgeon and that most folks wouldn't have been surprised either way, myself included. This award to has traditionally gone to the coach of the regular season conference champ.

Again, what is your beef?

Go Valley!!

Go Shocks!!!!

[shockinphi]

We could go on with this debate forever, they are both good players. My boy won and yours didn't, my team took first and yours didn't. That should be the end of it. I would like to play you guys again but it won't happen because you guys are going to get beat by MSU tomorrow anyways. Have fun in the NIT, maybe you guys will get a home game in that dump you play in.


UNI 75
WSU 61

Jacobson 21
Miller 7


UNI 68
WSU 56

Jacobson 15
Miller 7

POY?

[landmark]

god i cant believe this... a UNI fan acting like an idiot and me agreeing with the WSU fans. BJ didnt deserve to win POY, if any panther did it was Stout, get over it. To claim that UNI is a better team cause they won twice against WSU goes beyond moronic. Hell if thats the case SIU should be the best team because we are the only team that at beat every other team in the valley at least once!! sounds stupid doesnt it

[kabullseye]

What you really want to say is, based on the numbers....had Jacobson been doing his laundry on game nights against WSU...instead of shooting the rock...your record would be 2-0 instead of 0-2....and that complex you have wouldn't be keeping you awake at night.

[dawg_tired nemesis]

CU 55
UNI 52

Porter 10
Jacobson 8

UNI 55
CU 63

Porter 16
Jacobson 8

So what your saying, Porter should have been doing his laundry on game nights versus UNI and your record would be 2-0 instead of 0-2.... :rolleyes:

[gopanthers!]

Oh my God.....I seriously never thought I would have to read UNI fans making comments this stupid. It's fine if you think Ben should have been the POY but don't go spouting off crap that makes ALL of us look like bitter fanatical homers.....

On a brighter note, first post on the new Valleytalk! Glad it's back up and running! :)

[WSUbballer]

Oh my God.....I seriously never thought I would have to read UNI fans making comments this stupid. It's fine if you think Ben should have been the POY but don't go spouting off crap that makes ALL of us look like bitter fanatical homers.....

On a brighter note, first post on the new Valleytalk! Glad it's back up and running! :)
We won't hold it against you, just like you don't hold Cold's comments against the rest of us..:D

[kabullseye]

At least POGame for Porter.

gopanthers you may wish to seek out a cold shower somewhere. A little good natured ribbing among friends is obviously beyond your capacity.

Post your own thread....zzzzzzzz.....zzzzzzzzzz....zzzzzzzzzz.

[JVShocker]

Stout saved UNI this year - and he's probably a good candidate for early POY honors next year (along with O'Bryant.) I don't see how the 6th place team would ever get POY honors, though. :confused:

[GarH]

I can't understand why everyone but two UNI fans are applying logic to this thread. It is clearly obvious that logic is beyond those two UNI fans. It's a waste of time.

[Aargh]

I was not going to go down this road, but...

...UNI pre-season #1 pick in the Valley - ends up in a tie for 5th and lost the tie-breaker and gets the #6 seed.

UNI loses 5 of 8 games in the last month and nearly duplicates WSU's '05 choke job.

UNI has the coach that EVERYBODY is claiming as the heir apparent to every BCS opening. UNI has 2 All-Valley 1st-team selections. UNI is 5th/6th in the league and now UNI fans are saying Jacobsen is underrated as a first-team Valley selection?

Jacobsen and another MVC 1st-team player led their team to a tie for 5th place. That's not PoY material.

Jacobsen turned out to be more like Jamar Howard than PoY.

Howard's teams never finished below 3rd his last 3 years - advantage Howard

Jacobsen turned out to be a arrogant whiner - even

Jacobsen and Howard showed no improvement between their Jr and Sr years - advantage Howard since Howard had a nagging injury his entire Sr season.

Howard never played on a team with another MVC 1st-team selection - advantage Howard.

Howard's last 3 years, WSU finished T3, T2, 2. Jacobsen's last 3 years UNI finished T2, 3, T5. Notice a pattern there? - advantage Howard.

Just because once in his life BJ was able to hit an off-balance, guarded, falling-away, 30-foot buzzer-beater that got UNI into the NCAA's doesn't mean BJ is a contender for MVC PoY.

BJ turned out to be a contender for Jamar Howard's jock-strap warmer.

[kabullseye]

Aargh...hope you don't need a hernia operation after that one.

Where did those Miller/Jacobson numbers go a page or two back?

Throwing Jamar under the bus?

[BlueDude]

Stout saved UNI this year - and he's probably a good candidate for early POY honors next year (along with O'Bryant.) I don't see how the 6th place team would ever get POY honors, though. :confused:

Next year, What the FUNK are you talking about?

[kyyle23]

Aargh...hope you don't need a hernia operation after that one.

Where did those Miller/Jacobson numbers go a page or two back?

Throwing Jamar under the bus?

Keep changing your argument KBE. You throw a two game comparison out there of UNI/WSU as if that is the reason BJ should be the POY, and then discredit another 2 game comparison which shows that BJ wasnt the "Man" of the game. No logic.

Keep crying though, it is fun to watch.

[iSASO]

In many games, Miller sacrificed his scoring average in order to lead his team to a championship. His value as a player other teams had to double-team was the catalyst to the championship.

The best player on the best team = Player of the Year.

If you have questions about the best team, check the trophy case.

[WSUfan]

I was not going to go down this road, but...

...UNI pre-season #1 pick in the Valley - ends up in a tie for 5th and lost the tie-breaker and gets the #6 seed.

UNI loses 5 of 8 games in the last month and nearly duplicates WSU's '05 choke job.

UNI has the coach that EVERYBODY is claiming as the heir apparent to every BCS opening. UNI has 2 All-Valley 1st-team selections. UNI is 5th/6th in the league and now UNI fans are saying Jacobsen is underrated as a first-team Valley selection?

Jacobsen and another MVC 1st-team player led their team to a tie for 5th place. That's not PoY material.

Jacobsen turned out to be more like Jamar Howard than PoY.

Howard's teams never finished below 3rd his last 3 years - advantage Howard

Jacobsen turned out to be a arrogant whiner - even

Jacobsen and Howard showed no improvement between their Jr and Sr years - advantage Howard since Howard had a nagging injury his entire Sr season.

Howard never played on a team with another MVC 1st-team selection - advantage Howard.

Howard's last 3 years, WSU finished T3, T2, 2. Jacobsen's last 3 years UNI finished T2, 3, T5. Notice a pattern there? - advantage Howard.

Just because once in his life BJ was able to hit an off-balance, guarded, falling-away, 30-foot buzzer-beater that got UNI into the NCAA's doesn't mean BJ is a contender for MVC PoY.

BJ turned out to be a contender for Jamar Howard's jock-strap warmer.
I think Aargh's comments might be a little harsh. Ben Jacobsen is a good player. Rather than put him down, let's compare Paul Miller and Ben Jacobsen. BJ played over the summer with some elite team (whose name escapes me) and received lots of praise. Paul Miller worked out all summer and attended a Big-Man camp. Paul Miller showed a great deal of improvement in his game; not being an expert, I would say in footwork, shooting under the backet, passing (already good), etc. Benny did not use the summer to become a better player this MVC season.

Some people don't seem to respect Miller's POY award. In fact, he was doubled in most games, the WSU offense ran through him (unless the defense packed it in so tight that Miller and Wilson could not get the ball, in which case WSU shot a lot of threes) and he was the focus of the other team's defense when they played. The POY usually goes to the best player on the first (or second) place team. I think Miller was the clear, obvious and correct choice for POY and the vote for POY shows this is true.

[BlueDude]

In many games, Miller sacrificed his scoring average in order to lead his team to a championship. His value as a player other teams had to double-team was the catalyst to the championship.

The best player on the best team = Player of the Year.

If you have questions about the best team, check the trophy case.

1st he gets P.O.Y. in the valley

2nd he becomes a martyr

3rd he miracles WSU to a National Championship

[BlueDude]

iSASO, just yankin your chain man.

Take 'er easy.

[WSUfan]

1st he gets P.O.Y. in the valley

2nd he becomes a martyr

3rd he miracles WSU to a National Championship
Blue: I really hope your prediction (other than 2nd) is correct.
:D

[iSASO]

1st he gets P.O.Y. in the valley

2nd he becomes a martyr

3rd he miracles WSU to a National Championship

Dude, you'll have to do better than that to yank my chain.

Maybe something like:
"The Shuckers lost all of its talented players from last year, cannot replace Randy Burns and Jamar Howard with the 7th best recruiting class and will battle Drake for the sixth spot in the conference. Drake will finish higher than the Shuckers."

And, of course, with regards to today's game -- "Go Trees! I don't care about respect for the MVC. It's more important that WSU lose because I'm mad at a couple of guys on the internet."

[BlueDude]

Dude, you'll have to do better than that to yank my chain.

Maybe something like:
"The Shuckers lost all of its talented players from last year, cannot replace Randy Burns and Jamar Howard with the 7th best recruiting class and will battle Drake for the sixth spot in the conference. Drake will finish higher than the Shuckers."

And, of course, with regards to today's game -- "Go Trees! I don't care about respect for the MVC. It's more important that WSU lose because I'm mad at a couple of guys on the internet."

What in God's holy name are you blathering about?

Who's pushing for WSU to lose besides Leaf Holder fans? Who's mad?

[iSASO]

Congrats on being ignorant to this situation. It relates to a Drake fan who felt the compelling need to embarrass himself last fall.