Top Mid-majors of the last 20 years

[iSASO]

Interesting list based on an amalgamation of the three major sports. Who from the Valley missed the team picture day? How could this oversight happen?

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/34538-top-10-mid-major-programs-of-the-past-20-years

[DawgieStyle]

well this is a dumb list. Not all MVC teams play football and No one cares about Baseball (read as: check the ratings #'s for college baseball vs. college basketball).

And to top it all off he throws enrollment in as a guide line. Since when does freaking enrollment have anything to do with major college athletics, where it isn't the size of the student body that counts, but the amount of quality scholarships you have to give away.

[iSASO]

How did I know you'd be the first fish on the hook? I actually thought you would agree with the list.

[Chairman of the Boards]

How did I know you'd be the first fish on the hook?

Does the Pocket Fisherman really work?
Yep, iSASO says so!
http://media.swagit.com/s/wbrz/The_Advocate/05032007-12.high.flash8.html

[DawgieStyle]

How did I know you'd be the first fish on the hook? I actually thought you would agree with the list.

oh the old fishing line...you caught a big one. Damn, when will people learn there is no such thing as "baiting or fishing for posters" on a message board designed to trade responses.......It's the eqivalent of going to the grocery store, to guess what? Buy groceries. Dumb ***.

Say, are you still oblivious to the the fact that WSU was the most NCAA sanctioned school as of 1983, or did we clear that up. I wouldn't want you to continue thinking thad had no bearing on why WSU's football program closed up shop......

[WSUfan]

SIU fans are too self-confident to worry about being on lists like these:
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/34538-top-10-mid-major-programs-of-the-past-20-years
http://www.ncaa.org/stats/baseball/coaches/1/coaching_records.pdf
http://www.ncaa.org/stats/baseball/attendance/2006_attendance.pdf




SIU is mentioned here in many places: http://www.ncaapublications.com/Uploads/PDF/2008_baseball_records9193f5e2-3e04-46f7-95cf-38bbdf27aa4c.pdf
(That's SIU Edwardsville. :grin: )

[DawgieStyle]

SIU fans are too self-confident to worry about being on lists like these:
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/34538-top-10-mid-major-programs-of-the-past-20-years
http://www.ncaa.org/stats/baseball/coaches/1/coaching_records.pdf
http://www.ncaa.org/stats/baseball/attendance/2006_attendance.pdf




SIU is mentioned here in many places: http://www.ncaapublications.com/Uploads/PDF/2008_baseball_records9193f5e2-3e04-46f7-95cf-38bbdf27aa4c.pdf
(That's SIU Edwardsville. :grin: )

college baseball blows, why would anyone care.

[WSUfan]

In that case, why are you replying? ... :lol:

[WSUfan]

college baseball blows, why would anyone care.

Obviously WSU fans care.

Do SIU fans care about baseball? The following links suggest that some Saluki fans do care about baseball.
http://www.salukitalk.net/st/viewtopic.php?t=21746
http://www.salukitalk.net/st/viewtopic.php?t=19823
http://www.salukitalk.net/st/viewtopic.php?t=21761
http://www.salukitalk.net/st/viewtopic.php?t=21242
http://www.salukitalk.net/st/viewtopic.php?t=21772
http://www.salukitalk.net/st/viewtopic.php?t=21424

[Chairman of the Boards]

college baseball blows, why would anyone care.

I'm not sure, but it sure looks like a lot of people do... and it's probably time for you to change the subject before you get owned:
:chair:
http://www.cwsomaha.com/press-releases/college-world-series-attendance-records.html

"2006-07 NCAA DIVISION I CHAMPIONSHIPS
Top 10 Total Paid Attendance

1. Baseball 682,880
2. Men's Basketball 589,402
3. Football (FCS) 179,551
4. Women's Basketball 148,775
7. Women’s Volleyball 126,369
5. Men’s Lacrosse 120,975
6. Men’s Ice Hockey 116,147
8. Wrestling 88,761
9. Men’s Soccer 77,973
10. Softball 74,517"

[iSASO]

Dawgie, do you think the NCAA cares about baseball? Ask all the high-priced lawyers who get paid out of the profits. Do you think they care?

[Dawgbit]

I thought you had to have a bowling team to make the list!

[DawgieStyle]

Dawgie, do you think the NCAA cares about baseball? Ask all the high-priced lawyers who get paid out of the profits. Do you think they care?

compare attendance stats for baseball vs. basketball at the NCAA level...and you'll have your answer about just how many people truly care about college baseball in the grand scheme of things.

It's the same reason why the NFL has become more popular than MLB (our historic national past time). I'm sure you can figure out why.

[WSUfan]

DS: I replied to you using facts. I linked to 6 different threads on SalukiTalk where many SIU fans had commented about baseball (and usually they were angry that SIU's baseball team was not doing better). Can you reply on the subject of SIU fans' interest in NCAA baseball using facts and not just your opinion?


ADDED: I might have used the word "evidence" in place of the word "facts" ... but you get the idea. Right?

[iSASO]

And consider in those facts the fact that if SIU's baseball program had made the NCAA Baseball Regionals in 10 of the past 20 years, or the CWS once (like Creighton), they would have made the list too.

[DawgieStyle]

DS: I replied to you using facts. I linked to 6 different threads on SalukiTalk where many SIU fans had commented about baseball (and usually they were angry that SIU's baseball team was not doing better). Can you reply on the subject of SIU fans' interest in NCAA baseball using facts and not just your opinion?


ADDED: I might have used the word "evidence" in place of the word "facts" ... but you get the idea. Right?

i think you are the one still missing the point....of all the posters on Salukitalk, how many of them truly give a rats *** about it, compared the number of people who care about basketball or football. I'd say 40% if your lucky.

It's a dead sport in comparison to basketball and football, accept it.

[iSASO]

Dawgie, I bet your preferred mode of cross-country travel is covered wagon.

And here's another hot one for you. The federal government is highly interested in coverting all TV broadcasts to a digital signal in February of 2009.
And you know, when the government really wants something to happen, it almost always does happen. So...you might want to ditch the 13" B&W Zenith you've got and look at joining the rest of us in the 21st century.

Because when a monopolistic entity really puts an emphasis on something, you can pretty much bank on it happening. Of course, you can ignore it and run the risk of being left behind. But if you choose to be left behind, don't complain about not being on "the list".

[MoValley John]

What is this thread about, anyway? Who is the source of the linked article? Where are the references within the article? What is the background of the author and how long has he been a sports reporter?

After further review, from what I can gather, he's an army officer and becoming a sports journalist is one of his newer hobbies. He is also a stupid Nebraska fan.

I guess I'll just consider the source and not weigh in on this thread.

[WSUfan]

I guess I'll just consider the source and not weigh in on this thread.

Thanks. There is so much other sports news right now that we don't want this thread to overshadow all the big sports stories like ... Euro 08 soccer, the "Royals", http://www.shockernet.net/sn/viewtopic.php?t=11647, etc. :sleeping: :lol:

[Saluki762]

Since WSU made the list we are now embracing the term Mid-Major?

I won't get into the college baseball argument, I have never and would never attend a college game. When they stop using metal bats and the DH, I might watch a game. Until then, the sport doesn't exist for me.

[Saluki762]

Since WSU made the list we are now embracing the term Mid-Major?

I won't get into the college baseball argument, I have never and would never attend a college game. When they stop using metal bats and the DH, I might watch a game. Until then, the sport doesn't exist for me.

I didn't even realize that the CWS had taken place this year already. Congrats on the season WSU, always good for the Valley to have great teams.

[douglasdmb]

What is this thread about, anyway? Who is the source of the linked article? Where are the references within the article? What is the background of the author and how long has he been a sports reporter?

After further review, from what I can gather, he's an army officer and becoming a sports journalist is one of his newer hobbies. He is also a stupid Nebraska fan.

I guess I'll just consider the source and not weigh in on this thread.

Agreed. He lists CS-Fullerton as the best mid-major based on 4 CWS titles -- legit -- but what are his other reasons for the ranking? Fullerton's basketball tourney appearance in '08 and the fact the CFL's all-time leading rusher is from Fullerton. Who cares? I can't name one CFL player off the top of my head.

I'd say that WSU is probably a top-20 "mid-major," but this list doesn't have much cred. The fact that this guy thinks that WSU/CU/CS-F/App State/GMU all have better programs than schools like Cincinnati and Utah (definitely high-majors) proves how credible he is.

[MoValley John]

Something is amiss. The puzzle is missing pieces. Why with so many fewer teams competing in the sport, a 16 team, single elimination format vs. a 64 team, double elimination format, does men's hockey almost catch college baseball in revenue? There are far fewer games and far fewer teams in which to generate ticket sales. It's just a bit strange that a major sport would have a minor sport so close in revenue, especially when you consider just how many fewer games are played. With the revenue as it is, one would wonder if in fact, that the sport is indeed, major.

Not to pump up 1-AA football, hockey kicks their arse anyway you look at it, but they do pretty well against baseball considering they generated their numbers with 15 games in their entire championship format. Baseball, on the other hand, has a format where there could be as many as seven games in a single regional.

2006-07 NCAA DIVISION I CHAMPIONSHIPS
Top 10 Gross Receipts

1. Men’s Basketball $35,604,260
2. Baseball 9,552,936
3. Men’s Ice Hockey 7,073,071
6. Football (FCS) 2,974,394
4. Women’s Basketball 2,569,252
7. Men’s Lacrosse 2,271,174
5. Wrestling 1,735,481
8. Volleyball 1,529,769
9. Softball 1,052,643
10. Men’s Soccer 668,446

[MoValley John]

I will say this, college baseball does a great job in maximizing potential revenue. The regionals and supers are all played on a team's home field, garnering the biggest possible gates. The whole thing just might be an abject failure if there wasn't a home team to bring in crowds. That said, one must wonder how ice hockey draws anyone with only 15 tournament games, all at neutral sites. Strange, that with that type of disadvantage, hockey is only two million down in revenue. I wonder what would happen to those numbers if hockey went to double elim format similar to baseball.

[MoValley John]

I went back and crunched the numbers. When I was done, I crunched them again. I came back with a startling fact that can't be debated: Softball and men's soccer, both suck.

[todderson]

2006-07 NCAA DIVISION I CHAMPIONSHIPS
Top 10 Gross Receipts

1. Men’s Basketball $35,604,260
2. Baseball 9,552,936
3. Men’s Ice Hockey 7,073,071
6. Football (FCS) 2,974,394
4. Women’s Basketball 2,569,252
7. Men’s Lacrosse 2,271,174
5. Wrestling 1,735,481
8. Volleyball 1,529,769
9. Softball 1,052,643
10. Men’s Soccer 668,446

Where did you get these numbers?
Even though its only one game real football has to be on this list.

[MoValley John]

Where did you get these numbers?
Even though its only one game real football has to be on this list.

I never divulge sources. It really becomes burdensome when I try to totally make shat up. :lol::lol::lol:

Actually, it was just below the attendance figures posted earlier. The revenue stats were omitted in the original post.
http://www.cwsomaha.com/press-releases/college-world-series-attendance-records.html

[iSASO]

A little more research would reveal that the revenues for baseball has grown significantly since the NCAA began emphasizing it.
I suspect they have accepted that they won't ever get a big piece of the BCS pie so they have been looking at other sports to grow. They chose baseball.

Ignore it and deny it if you will but the NCAA is not.

[MoValley John]

Is this how you emphasize it, by adding games to the tournament and keeping all of it, except the final eight, at home fields to generate a gate? Consider this, the baseball championship format now has a minimum of 76 games. Basketball, including the play in game, has 64. No more. The baseball playoff can actually balloon to more than 90 games to generate the gate and revenue. And little hockey generated $7 million with only 15 games. 15!!!

Twist it as you like, those are facts. And if hockey wasn't so expensive and was viable in the south, Wichita State would have a team, as would Arkansas and teams in the ACC. And yes, the NCAA would be "emphasizing" it. In reality, the NCAA isn't "emphasizing" baseball, they are sucking the cash cow dry. Too bad you weren't in Omaha this year. The scalpers were going broke, tickets were easy to get and the concensus was that the new format was killing the thing. But then again, I guess the NCAA will do whatever ESPN wants so their game gets "emphasized." Unfortunately, now they went too far and it suffered- all the way to inflating numbers! Never before have I seen the bleachers at Rosenblatt empty and the official attendance over 25,000! :lol::lol::lol:

I hate to break the news to you, they have stretched this thing as far as they can and it still hasn't become a mainstream sport. Any more stretching and the thing might implode.

[iSASO]

Or maybe the NCAA will increase the number of scholarships allowed and move the season out a little.

[MoValley John]

Or maybe the NCAA will increase the number of scholarships allowed and move the season out a little.


The powers in the south will not let the season run any later and with more scholarships, it is possible that a few schools in the north will just say, "Screw it, it's too expensive" and drop it.

Baseball is walking a tightrope. It's big enough that the NCAA cares, but not important enough to be taken seriously by the vast majority of schools in the north. With all the "emphasis" placed on baseball, the NCAA has been able to suck $9.5 million out of a long, drawn out championship. They got over seven mil out of hockey with only 15 games.

You have to wonder how much money the NCAA could make if they chose to "emphasize" hockey.

[WSUfan]

I went back and crunched the numbers. When I was done, I crunched them again. I came back with a startling fact that can't be debated: Softball and men's soccer, both suck.

This is news how??? :lol:

[iSASO]

Mo, You have to wonder why they chose baseball over hockey and the other sports.

[MoValley John]

Mo, You have to wonder why they chose baseball over hockey and the other sports.

They chose baseball over hockey because you can put a field in for next to nothing. Look at where Creighton plays and look at where Nebraska used to play. There is also the advantage of cheap road trips. The same can't be said for hockey. A bare bones colliseum with ice and 5,000 seats would run into the millions. Travel is brutally expensive and equipment costs dwarf those of baseball.

On the converse, where both are played, hockey draws better and people are willing to pay more for the tickets. Even with that, it's awfully hard to sell $10 million or more to build a startup hockey program. Thta is, if they have ice available. Without ice, it's next to impossible.

[iSASO]

Ice hockey would be rather difficult without ice. Now we know.

[MoValley John]

Ice hockey would be rather difficult without ice. Now we know.

But there is ice in Wichita! You guys could do it!!!
http://www.wichitaicecenter.com/Main.htm

I don't think it would work in Manhattan. The ice rink there has no seating. Imagine, hockey getting so big at WSU that you guys had to either build your own arena or move into the new county one. Now that woudl make other Valley schools jealous!

[iSASO]

Why rub it in by making them more jealous than they already are?
That's really not very nice, Mo.

In case this was said before your time, all Valley schools are the same. Any school can be a national power in anything and lead the conference to great notoriety.

[MoValley John]

Why rub it in by making them more jealous than they already are?
That's really not very nice, Mo.

In case this was said before your time, all Valley schools are the same. Any school can be a national power in anything and lead the conference to great notoriety.

Because hockey would be huge there! I mean huge! Sure everone would be jealous, but think of it this way, every year you have home games with the likes of Ohio State, Notre Dame, Michigan and Wisconsin. Every now and then, Boston College rolls into town! Tell me that wouldn't sell out! It's freaking hockey and you guys get to play with the big boys! And hockey helmets look just like football helmets, it's freaking cool. Sure, Oklahoma State snubs you and won't give you a home game in baseball, but at the same time, you guys could be going head to head with the Wolverines! With only 60 Division 1 teams, you get to play then all!

[MoValley John]

The opportunity to play a home game against Notre Dame has to send chills up the spine of almost any sports fan. I just don't think there is enough beer in Wichita to handle a sold out arena, plus the thousands of Wichitans eagerly watching the Shockers first game against the Irish on tv. Beer would flow at every sports bar and they would have to call St. Louis for emergency restocking.

http://media.scout.com/Media/Image/54/540352.jpg

How 'bout the Spartains?
http://assets.espn.go.com/photo/2006/1228/ncaa_a_msuhockey_275.jpg
Or the Wolverines?
http://media.collegepublisher.com/media/paper851/stills/3zxcb2y0.jpg
Yep, the big guys play the little guys in hockey. Only 60 teams, you get to see 'em all!

[WSUbballer]

Dawgie was the first to get sucked up yet again. Congrats Mr. Archi.

Is it a coincidence so many SIU fans commented in a negative manner on this topic?

No need to get jealous over a stupid internet article, pups.

[iSASO]

Maybe you're on to something here. Considering the considerable success of pro hockey here in Wichita, a college team just might work.

Imagine that, Top 50 in attendance in the Top 3 major revenue sports for the NCAA. A 15-16K arena to play in...beer...

I'm sold.

[MoValley John]

Dawgie was the first to get sucked up yet again. Congrats Mr. Archi.

Is it a coincidence so many SIU fans commented in a negative manner on this topic?

No need to get jealous over a stupid internet article, pups.

It was a stupid internet article, but it gave me the opportunity to showcase one of my favorite college sports, hockey!!!!!!!!!!

Nice crowd for a Michigan road game.
http://www.schickhappens.net/photogallery/grand_rapids.jpg

[MoValley John]

Maybe you're on to something here. Considering the considerable success of pro hockey here in Wichita, a college team just might work.

Imagine that, Top 50 in attendance in the Top 3 major revenue sports for the NCAA. A 15-16K arena to play in...beer...

I'm sold.


It is compelling, isn't it?!

[MoValley John]

With a 15,000 seat arena, you guys just might just be top 10 in hockey. Plus, the county government would have another tennant, defraying any criticism from the people that were against the building.

[MoValley John]

I know Cold doesn't post here much anymore, but fifty bucks and my left nut says he's all for it!

[iSASO]

OK, great. Let's do it. Now all you need to do is contact President Beggs and ask him to whom you send the check for the startup of women's field hockey and a field for them equivalent to a $200 million downtown arena.

[CharlieHog]

OK, great. Let's do it. Now all you need to do is contact President Beggs and ask him to whom you send the check for the startup of women's field hockey and a field for them equivalent to a $200 million downtown arena.



Why not women's ice hockey?

[AZSaluki75]

Why are we discussing WSU baseball on a basketball forum???:banghead:

[WSUfan]

Why are we discussing WSU baseball on a basketball forum???:banghead:

Ice Hockey = Baseball ??? :no:

[MoValley John]

Ice Hockey = Baseball ??? :no:

I was thinking the same thing.

[WSUbballer]

Ice Hockey = Baseball ??? :no:

Typical Saluki idiocy.

[iSASO]

They do at least know they are the 21st Top mid-major of the last 20 years. Give 'em credit for that.

The thread isn't about baseball or ice hockey. It's how, according to the author, SIU basketball and small-time football has failed to overcome the power of the success of Creighton and WSU in basketball and baseball. I'm not even saying I agree with his list, I just thought it was interesting and might generate some grist for the mill.

I was right.

[MoValley John]

Grist? Is that some some kind of lotion?

[Michigan J. Frog]

NCAA Hockey Games are not at neutral sites:

http://www.ncaa.org/releases/champsites/2003062701cs.htm

[MoValley John]

Those aren't neutral sites? Granted they are at college arenas, but they are bid out how many years in advance? In baseball, the hosts are bid out when? It is important to be top 16 in baseball so you have can host and have a home field advantage. The bids aren't even announced until the end of the season. Super regionals are announced only after the regionals. Florida State didn't travel. Why not? Because based on their season and the school's monetary bid, they were given home field throughout the tournament. Conversely, the hockey regionals for the coming year are set in stone, there is no guess on who is hosting and no jockeying for position to eek out a home field. Wichita State hosted a Super a couple years ago because the home team on the other side of the bracket lost. If hockey were the same as baseball, we wouldn't know where and when the tournament will be played. But we do, the sites are set. If Yale makes it, they might get home ice; they also might get shipped up to New Hampshire, it all depends on how they are seeded. Also, if Yale doesn't make it, they are still the host. Pretty much looks like a neutral site scenario to me. Based on whatever you are trying to say, the basketball regional just held in Omaha wasn't a neutral site because it was played on Creighton's floor.

To make it simple, here are the regionals for the coming up (2009) hockey season:
East Regional, Arena at Harbor Yard - Bridgeport, Connecticut (Hosts: Yale University and Fairfield University)
Midwest Regional, Van Andel Arena - Grand Rapids, Michigan (Hosts: Central Collegiate Hockey Association and Western Michigan University)
Northeast Regional, Verizon Wireless Arena - Manchester, New Hampshire (Host: University of New Hampshire)
West Regional, Mariucci Arena - Minneapolis, Minnesota (Host: University of Minnesota)
Frozen Four, Verizon Center - Washington, D.C. (Hosts: United States Naval Academy and the Greater Washington Sports Alliance

[Michigan J. Frog]

What teams are going to be assigned to these sites?

Me doubts Minnesota or North Dakota will be sent to New Hampshire or Boston.

Get real twinkie!

[MoValley John]

What teams are going to be assigned to these sites?

Me doubts Minnesota or North Dakota will be sent to New Hampshire or Boston.

Get real twinkie!

How about Grand Rapids, Michigan. Hockey is a much smaller universe and except for Alaska, travel to the tourneys is not that far between sites. And though not always, there are more times than you would think that a team will travel away from home even though they are hosting a site. The same can't be said for baseball; in baseball, there is a home team (with a home field advantage) at every regional.

Furthermore, regarding hockey, what happens if the host team doesn't make the tournament? Do they move the regional sites? Umm, no. The sites are set in stone. Tell me where the 16 baseball regionals will be next year? That's right, you can't. This is about as weak a position on a lame argument as I've ever seen. You aren't being as idiotic as some DawgieStyle rants, but you are on really weak ground. Sorry.

[DUShock]

University of Nebraska Omaha has been very successful in hockey as has Denver University. I would love to see the Valley open to ice hockey :yes: of course I'm still holding out for Shocker football. :cursing:

Go Gateway!

Go Valley!!

Go Shocks!!!!

[dawg]

Obviously WSU fans care.

Do SIU fans care about baseball? The following links suggest that some Saluki fans do care about baseball.
http://www.salukitalk.net/st/viewtopic.php?t=21746
http://www.salukitalk.net/st/viewtopic.php?t=19823
http://www.salukitalk.net/st/viewtopic.php?t=21761
http://www.salukitalk.net/st/viewtopic.php?t=21242
http://www.salukitalk.net/st/viewtopic.php?t=21772
http://www.salukitalk.net/st/viewtopic.php?t=21424

We do care about baseball. Many of us wish for the return of the Itchy Jones days. I don't understand the politics involved with the current Coach, but the consensus seems to be that were stuck in a rut until he's gone.

[WSUfan]

We do care about baseball. Many of us wish for the return of the Itchy Jones days. I don't understand the politics involved with the current Coach, but the consensus seems to be that were stuck in a rut until he's gone.

To find your next coach, maybe you need to look here http://www.simpsoncrazy.com/itchy/. :innocent: :grin: