ESPN 15 Year Prestige Rankings

[UE-BBALL#1]

This should get some comments going!! All the MVC teams were ranked outside the top 50.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=3481843#a-10

[UE-BBALL#1]

I guess I should add this link with an explanation of the scoring.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=3481014

[DawgFan]

At first glance I was disgusted that SIU wasn't in the top 50. Then I saw SIU was listed 53rd and looked more closely at the criteria. SIU had some bad years in the mid 80's. SIU did reach seven straight postseasons near the end of Rich Herrin's time and have had the most success of any MVC school this decade.

If the modern era was defined to include 1983, Wichita State would be atop the charts.

[TNMSUFAN]

Here are the Valley standings and the article was "Counting down the most prestigious programs since 1984-85"

Missouri Valley
T-53. Southern Illinois
55. Missouri State
59. Creighton
T-102. Bradley
T-102. Illinois State
T-148. Evansville
160. Wichita State
T-214. Northern Iowa
T-260. Indiana State
T-274. Drake

[JerryBearSeinfeld]

:bears:

[XSaluki]

Like all of these 'lists', it is about how you slice a dice the years and criteria.

Of course since it is on ESPN, it is rock solid. This is much more realistic than the blogger list of best mid programs. :naughty::innocent:

[jliehr]

At least this uses objective criteria rather than opinion :naughty: :bears:

[Aegyptus]

I am actually happy with the ranking for SIU. Would I like to be top 50, sure, but being above Virginia, Minnesota, Iowa State, West Virginia, BC, Miss. State, Auburn, Notre Dame, Tennessee, Georgia, Cal, Oregon, Florida State, Nebraska ... I'm okay with that.

[doinit salukistyle]

that makes sense if they count the glory days of the 80s for SIU

I find it kinda funny that bradley and Illinois state are tied...the biggest rivalry in the missouri valley, and the two teams are just as successfull over the past 25 years as each other.

[scrove]

In case you wanted another reason why Drake's improbable 2007-08 season was truly remarkable, here it is: The Bulldogs accumulated -45 points overall in our scoring system. That's despite a +9 for this season. That 20-win season and those regular-season and Missouri Valley Conference titles (along with the penalty for a first-round loss to 12-seeded Western Kentucky) single-handedly erased the heartbreak of nine losing seasons.

Familiar names outside of the top 50 (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=3486494)

[MoValley John]

I don't like the word prestige. Words like prestige should be reserved for schools such as Harvard and Yale. Winning, yes, succesful, yes, dominant, yes, bigtime, yes, powerhouse, yes. Prestige, no.

[blueness]

Someone mentioned this on the Bluejay board...but I find it somewhat interesting that an NCAA bid and an NIT bid were worth the exact same amount of points (One).

Other than that, no big complaints. I think it'd be interesting if they broke it down by decade...I think you'd still see roughly the same top 12...but everything after that would/could be completely different.

How many losing seasons have MVC teams had since 84-85?

CU has had 7

[DoubleJayAlum]

I like the ranking system except for the NIT and NCAA bids being worth the same number of points. It seems like the most impartial listing I've seen in quite a while.

I am especially fond of the penalty inflicted if you get put on probation. Most of the time, there seems to be very little tangible long term detriment to such a ruling, so I'm glad to see it factored in here.

[BeeLine]

Missouri State had two losing seasons and one .500 year; thirteen 20 or more win seasons and 14 post season appearances. Obviously this point system both rewarded acheivement, but taxed failure; somewhat unique in the way most of these are laid out.
Interesting and very similar to the stats posted last year about average order of finish in the Valley the past 15 years.

[iSASO]

It's interesting that of the current MVC teams, the last one to reach the Elite Eight is in the lower half of the "prestige" scale.

[jb399]

It's interesting that of the current MVC teams, the last one to reach the Elite Eight is in the lower half of the "prestige" scale.

"Counting down the most prestigious programs since 1984-85"

Anything before the 84-85 season is consider not to of even happened. Even the Shocker's run to the Elite 8.

[Indy_BB]

15-year ratings? Yes, if you are very bad at math...

[UE-BBALL#1]

15-year ratings? Yes, if you are very bad at math...

Valid point. I caught the line at the top saying "Having been in D-1 at least 15 years" and went with it. My bad.

[doinit salukistyle]

Just shows how bad the other years were.

[OnceABrave]

I am actually happy with the ranking for SIU. Would I like to be top 50, sure, but being above Virginia, Minnesota, Iowa State, West Virginia, BC, Miss. State, Auburn, Notre Dame, Tennessee, Georgia, Cal, Oregon, Florida State, Nebraska ... I'm okay with that.

I see your point, but as a Valley fan in general, I look at SIU as our "flagship" team of the past 10 or so years...and I see SIU as a much better program than Iowa St, Virginia, Oregon, and several of the other teams you mentioned. To see you below schools like Coll of Charleston and UT Chattanooga is ridiculous.

As we discussed on the Bradley boards, the fatal flaw of this "forumla" seems to be conference weight. The 3rd and even 4th place team in the Valley is almost always better than the team that wins conferences such as the MAAC, MEAC, Southern, and SWAC...better in the sense that they usually have a higher RPI and are more successful in the posteason. If they added the Valley as a higher level conference, I would imagine we would see SIU much higher on the list.

[howboutdembears]

If they added the Valley as a higher level conference, I would imagine we would see SIU much higher on the list.

would you see them higher? or would all the other BCS teams leap over them since their conference would be weighted much higher (over the entire 23 years) than the Valley. Yes, the Valley has been pretty strong the last few years but that hasn't always been the case. You cant just add weight to the Valley and not add it at a higher rate to the bigger conferences.... and winning championships (conference or conference tourny) is all a big part of "prestige" finishing 4th in the valley isn't Prestigeous at all compared to winning a conference and playing in the dance... the poll wasnt done to pick the best teams in college basketball, but the more prestigeous ones and winning conference titles and playing in post season is a big part of that.

[NoPlaceLikeDome]

Not surprising to see UNI so bad. With the exceptions of the early 90s and then the past 5 years, we were atrocious.

[pawball]

I don't like the word prestige. Words like prestige should be reserved for schools such as Harvard and Yale. Winning, yes, succesful, yes, dominant, yes, bigtime, yes, powerhouse, yes. Prestige, no.

dunno, capt. my dict says "the power to command esteem". Doesn't matter in what arena. has nothing to do with the original meaning, of an illusionist or such.

[MoValley John]

dunno, capt. my dict says "the power to command esteem". Doesn't matter in what arena. has nothing to do with the original meaning, of an illusionist or such.

By prestige, would you consider a team that won significantly, but was known to not graduate players prestigious? How about a team that won yet had many players get into trouble with the law, would you consider that presigious? Or a team that won two national championships, but was later found to have ineligible players and a trail of recruiting violations? Earning points for two national championships will overcome the negative points of being placed on probation, but even with those points, I would have a hard time seeing prestige in that program.

As I can tell, the first definition of the word prestige is in regard to honor and high standing. It can and sometimes is associated with winning but the manner in which you win has much to do with your prestige. Do we look at Ken Lay as a man of prestige? For the better part of his life, he won, but how he won has the public hardly looking at him as a prestigious person, simply a crook. Furthermore, thugs can and do win national championships, but I don't look at them in awe, I look at them with disdain, hardly prestigious. Cheaters can win for a long, long time, I don't think of them as very prestigious. I could look at them as winners, champions and powerhouses, but not prestigious. Then again, if you ain't cheaten' you ain't tryen'.

[pawball]

By prestige, would you consider a team that won significantly, but was known to not graduate players prestigious? How about a team that won yet had many players get into trouble with the law, would you consider that presigious? Or a team that won two national championships, but was later found to have ineligible players and a trail of recruiting violations? Earning points for two national championships will overcome the negative points of being placed on probation, but even with those points, I would have a hard time seeing prestige in that program.

As I can tell, the first definition of the word prestige is in regard to honor and high standing. It can and sometimes is associated with winning but the manner in which you win has much to do with your prestige. Do we look at Ken Lay as a man of prestige? For the better part of his life, he won, but how he won has the public hardly looking at him as a prestigious person, simply a crook. Furthermore, thugs can and do win national championships, but I don't look at them in awe, I look at them with disdain, hardly prestigious. Cheaters can win for a long, long time, I don't think of them as very prestigious. I could look at them as winners, champions and powerhouses, but not prestigious. Then again, if you ain't cheaten' you ain't tryen'.

Prestige is one of those funky words that means commanding high esteem or admiration; it was originally associated with illusion, deception, as in jugglers in their art, or David Copperfield type work....re the movie "The Prestige." Has nothing to do with honor. The people who put this rating together probably don't know that, but they did account for programs that were suspended from NCAA competition due to their prestigious acts by taking points away from them for each time they were sentenced.

[Dawgbit]

That perennial powerhouse Murray State, of the mighty Ohio Valley Conference comes in at #30.

I would not put too much stock in these rankings guys.:no:

[MoValley John]

That perennial powerhouse Murray State, of the mighty Ohio Valley Conference comes in at #30.

I would not put too much stock in these rankings guys.:no:

Murray State is AWESOME!!!!